Post by: Bowhunter3 on October 30, 2018, 02:48:28 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 30, 2018, 03:03:44 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 30, 2018, 03:07:39 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 30, 2018, 03:17:25 PM
Sorry to hear for you folks in GF. But the sooner these things move to the I-5 corridor, the sooner the wolf lovers will be affected by their presence and then we'll see a chance for management. Protect your kids.Yeah, Chad and his wife have a bunch of little ones not to mention all the neighbor kids too! Well, the wolves only have 12 more miles to go to make it to I-5, almost there!
Post by: nwwanderer on October 30, 2018, 04:52:07 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on October 30, 2018, 05:14:53 PM
Post by: goldenhtr on October 30, 2018, 05:56:27 PM
:sry: about your backyard
Post by: buddy01 on October 30, 2018, 06:00:04 PM
Post by: grundy53 on October 30, 2018, 06:13:49 PM
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 30, 2018, 06:28:29 PM
Post by: Tbar on October 30, 2018, 06:34:03 PM
Collar on the second one? Thanks, be careful out there:yeah:
Post by: Bowhunter3 on October 30, 2018, 06:45:22 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 30, 2018, 06:48:47 PM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
Post by: Dick in the Dirt on October 30, 2018, 07:09:44 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 30, 2018, 07:40:55 PM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
Shoootem
Post by: Scheindogg on October 30, 2018, 07:41:48 PM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
In reality if you saw one of the animals in said picture could you really shoot it and say “WDFW say they are coyotes”?
Post by: KFhunter on October 30, 2018, 08:11:03 PM
WDFW: "no, there's no wolves in that area"
HW'r: "Oh good, cause I'm going to shoot them since they must be just big coyotes"
WDFW: "whoa, wait ummm.."
Post by: jackelope on October 30, 2018, 08:28:05 PM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
In reality if you saw one of the animals in said picture could you really shoot it and say “WDFW say they are coyotes”?
1-WDFW doesn’t say they’re coyotes.
2-is it ok to shoot a moose in granite falls and call it a deer because there are no moose in granite falls?
I’m curious to know what the actual words are that come out of wdfw’s mouth all the time when they say there are no wolves somewhere.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 31, 2018, 05:54:07 AM
Post by: Scheindogg on October 31, 2018, 06:24:03 AM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
In reality if you saw one of the animals in said picture could you really shoot it and say “WDFW say they are coyotes”?
1-WDFW doesn’t say they’re coyotes.
2-is it ok to shoot a moose in granite falls and call it a deer because there are no moose in granite falls?
I’m curious to know what the actual words are that come out of wdfw’s mouth all the time when they say there are no wolves somewhere.
Good point.
I was mainly just being facetious
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 31, 2018, 06:28:48 AM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
In reality if you saw one of the animals in said picture could you really shoot it and say “WDFW say they are coyotes”?
1-WDFW doesn’t say they’re coyotes.
2-is it ok to shoot a moose in granite falls and call it a deer because there are no moose in granite falls?
I’m curious to know what the actual words are that come out of wdfw’s mouth all the time when they say there are no wolves somewhere.
Amy Windrope is the Region 4 director for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, and she says there has been a lone wolf caught and collared around the Marblemount area, so we know they can get here.
“They’ve come over the border from Idaho and traveled into eastern Washington and it’s possible they will travel into Western Washington,” Windrope told us."
While pictures are great, Windtrope says these are even better: “We need to have scat samples, fur samples and DNA samples.”
Of course, those may be hard to get, so the agency asks people at least to mark on its online map where they saw the supposed wolf.
“We’re very interested in the facts behind it—where are we seeing them, how can we document them, how we understand how they’re moving through the landscape?” Windtrope said."
Because a clear picture of a wolf isn't enough.
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 31, 2018, 07:32:36 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 31, 2018, 08:10:45 AM
So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
Post by: nwwanderer on October 31, 2018, 08:30:00 AM
Post by: Tinmaniac on October 31, 2018, 09:38:01 AM
Funny,I never mentioned the transplanting of wolves.My comment was about the two wolves in the picture and that it is highly unlikely that THOSE two wolves wandered here from Idaho.Just because you haven't seen a picture of wolf transplanting doesn't mean it doesn't happen.Would you carry a camera if you were robbing a bank?What about in state transplants?Do you think that doesn't happen?They don't call it the state"Wolf Conservation and Management Plan"for nothing.So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
Post by: Gobble Doc on October 31, 2018, 09:50:14 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 31, 2018, 09:58:52 AM
Funny,I never mentioned the transplanting of wolves.My comment was about the two wolves in the picture and that it is highly unlikely that THOSE two wolves wandered here from Idaho.Just because you haven't seen a picture of wolf transplanting doesn't mean it doesn't happen.Would you carry a camera if you were robbing a bank?What about in state transplants?Do you think that doesn't happen?They don't call it the state"Wolf Conservation and Management Plan"for nothing.So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
Whoa, Skippy. Take a breath and try switching to decaf. Let's start with the fact that neither of us want wolves here - common ground. The word reintroduction implies transplant. They weren't reintroduced into WA. They migrated here after they were reintroduced into the Greater Yellowstone area. And no, I don't think they're being transplanted anywhere in WA. Again, either show proof or it's a phantom conspiracy theory and makes us (or one of us) look stupid. Not even sure what bank robbery has to do with anything. Everyone has phones with cameras. I find it highly unlikely that transplants would happen without any witnesses, unless of course, they're killing the witnesses, too.
By going off on a tangent and a wild goose chase, you're not focusing on the real problems to do with the wolf plan. It's too aggressive, management goals are almost impossible to reach in the time it takes them to overpopulate, these are disease-infected animals that never should've been released, and we were lied to by the USFWS and the WDFW about the impact they would have and their reproductive rates. That's plenty of information to form a coherent and believable argument against the supposed "recovery".
Post by: Scheindogg on October 31, 2018, 10:09:30 AM
Those exact wolves likely didn’t come over from Idaho. But probably their ancestors did? :twocents:Funny,I never mentioned the transplanting of wolves.My comment was about the two wolves in the picture and that it is highly unlikely that THOSE two wolves wandered here from Idaho.Just because you haven't seen a picture of wolf transplanting doesn't mean it doesn't happen.Would you carry a camera if you were robbing a bank?What about in state transplants?Do you think that doesn't happen?They don't call it the state"Wolf Conservation and Management Plan"for nothing.So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
Post by: wolfbait on October 31, 2018, 10:51:52 AM
So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
According to you P-man..
On the other hand, I know of several people who claim other wise and this may be a surprise to you but, they aren't crazy, they are upstanding citizens of the community, and they are and were taken seriously when they said they saw WDFW Green rigs with wolves being released.
I know one rancher who lost a yearling steer to wolves a year before the lookout pack was confirmed, the lookout pack was confirm within a few miles of where he lost the yearling. This rancher gave WDFW scat samples and wolf hair, they said they would put it with their Sasquatch sightings. They said there were no wolves.
People in ID, MT, and Wyoming all said they could watch the wolves eat their way out as they expanded. Funny how the lookout pack "migrated" miles through prime prey to settle a few miles outside of Twisp.
And then there's the fact that the USFWS, WDFW, and lets not forget CNW all have a different answer as to where the lookout pack "migrated" from.
The little bit of info. I furnished probably won’t even peek your interest without a picture P-man, which really doesn’t matter to 97% of people in the Okanogan that have had to deal with this strange “migration”. Quite sure they would have a few words for you with your claim that they sound crazy or weren’t to be taken seriously.
It’s fine for you to go on believing WDFW, when they say they didn’t release wolves, after all they have always been so honest. And of course it’s ok for you to say that anyone who believes WDFW did release wolves, sounds crazy or won’t be taken seriously without pictures, I bet your reasoning sounds really good to the antis and WDF&Wolves
Where did the “migrating”wolves come from P-man? We probably need a picture, several pictures...
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Northern Rocky Mountain Recovery Program Update
2008
Until 2008, no wild wolves had been confirmed west of the DPS boundary in Washington or Oregon. However, in July 2008, a wolf pack (2 adults and 6 pups) was discovered near Twisp, WA (just east of the North Cascades and west of the DPS boundary). Genetic testing showed these wolves did not originate from the NRM DPS; instead they apparently dispersed southward from the wolf population in southcentral British Columbia. Both adults were radio-collared and the pack is being monitored via radio telemetry by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. If this pack persists it will remain separated and distinct from the NRM DPS by the large expanse of unsuitable wolf habitat in eastern WA and OR.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf
DNA samples confirm gray wolves are back in Methow Valley By Joyce Campbell
Methow Valley News
July 24, 2008
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.”http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley
Is there a difference between “southcentral British Columbia” and “northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada”?
Perhaps the USFWS and WDFW should have gotten their story straight as to where they were going to say the wolves came from? I guess they couldn’t say, we hauled them in from Idaho with horse trailers, it just wouldn’t fit the narrative of: (“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.” )
*Update* – June 13, 2014:
“DNA obtained from Lookout Pack wolves has shown they are descendents of wolves living in coastal British Columbia”, who lived separately from inland wolves for many generations, “Conservation Northwest” said in a press release. http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/
http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/
Meanwhile wolves are slaughtering the game herds in areas where WDFW refuse to confirm wolves, imagine that.
Post by: KFhunter on October 31, 2018, 10:56:28 AM
Funny,I never mentioned the transplanting of wolves.My comment was about the two wolves in the picture and that it is highly unlikely that THOSE two wolves wandered here from Idaho.Just because you haven't seen a picture of wolf transplanting doesn't mean it doesn't happen.Would you carry a camera if you were robbing a bank?What about in state transplants?Do you think that doesn't happen?They don't call it the state"Wolf Conservation and Management Plan"for nothing.So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
Whoa, Skippy. Take a breath and try switching to decaf. Let's start with the fact that neither of us want wolves here - common ground. The word reintroduction implies transplant. They weren't reintroduced into WA. They migrated here after they were reintroduced into the Greater Yellowstone area. And no, I don't think they're being transplanted anywhere in WA. Again, either show proof or it's a phantom conspiracy theory and makes us (or one of us) look stupid. Not even sure what bank robbery has to do with anything. Everyone has phones with cameras. I find it highly unlikely that transplants would happen without any witnesses, unless of course, they're killing the witnesses, too.
By going off on a tangent and a wild goose chase, you're not focusing on the real problems to do with the wolf plan. It's too aggressive, management goals are almost impossible to reach in the time it takes them to overpopulate, these are disease-infected animals that never should've been released, and we were lied to by the USFWS and the WDFW about the impact they would have and their reproductive rates. That's plenty of information to form a coherent and believable argument against the supposed "recovery".
In the end, it doesn't matter how they got here, they're here...now what? That's the question, let's not get bogged down in the particulars.
Post by: jackelope on October 31, 2018, 10:56:33 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181031/7b9b422c30c955dc1183bcfbe296ccbb.jpg)
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 31, 2018, 11:50:40 AM
So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
According to you P-man..
On the other hand, I know of several people who claim other wise and this may be a surprise to you but, they aren't crazy, they are upstanding citizens of the community, and they are and were taken seriously when they said they saw WDFW Green rigs with wolves being released.
I know one rancher who lost a yearling steer to wolves a year before the lookout pack was confirmed, the lookout pack was confirm within a few miles of where he lost the yearling. This rancher gave WDFW scat samples and wolf hair, they said they would put it with their Sasquatch sightings. They said there were no wolves.
People in ID, MT, and Wyoming all said they could watch the wolves eat their way out as they expanded. Funny how the lookout pack "migrated" miles through prime prey to settle a few miles outside of Twisp.
And then there's the fact that the USFWS, WDFW, and lets not forget CNW all have a different answer as to where the lookout pack "migrated" from.
The little bit of info. I furnished probably won’t even peek your interest without a picture P-man, which really doesn’t matter to 97% of people in the Okanogan that have had to deal with this strange “migration”. Quite sure they would have a few words for you with your claim that they sound crazy or weren’t to be taken seriously.
It’s fine for you to go on believing WDFW, when they say they didn’t release wolves, after all they have always been so honest. And of course it’s ok for you to say that anyone who believes WDFW did release wolves, sounds crazy or won’t be taken seriously without pictures, I bet your reasoning sounds really good to the antis and WDF&Wolves
Where did the “migrating”wolves come from P-man? We probably need a picture, several pictures...
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Northern Rocky Mountain Recovery Program Update
2008
Until 2008, no wild wolves had been confirmed west of the DPS boundary in Washington or Oregon. However, in July 2008, a wolf pack (2 adults and 6 pups) was discovered near Twisp, WA (just east of the North Cascades and west of the DPS boundary). Genetic testing showed these wolves did not originate from the NRM DPS; instead they apparently dispersed southward from the wolf population in southcentral British Columbia. Both adults were radio-collared and the pack is being monitored via radio telemetry by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. If this pack persists it will remain separated and distinct from the NRM DPS by the large expanse of unsuitable wolf habitat in eastern WA and OR.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf
DNA samples confirm gray wolves are back in Methow Valley By Joyce Campbell
Methow Valley News
July 24, 2008
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.”http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley
Is there a difference between “southcentral British Columbia” and “northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada”?
Perhaps the USFWS and WDFW should have gotten their story straight as to where they were going to say the wolves came from? I guess they couldn’t say, we hauled them in from Idaho with horse trailers, it just wouldn’t fit the narrative of: (“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.” )
*Update* – June 13, 2014:
“DNA obtained from Lookout Pack wolves has shown they are descendents of wolves living in coastal British Columbia”, who lived separately from inland wolves for many generations, “Conservation Northwest” said in a press release. http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/
http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/
Meanwhile wolves are slaughtering the game herds in areas where WDFW refuse to confirm wolves, imagine that.
Ah, I've been waiting for an attack from the voice of reason. You attack anyone who doesn't toe your exact line, even when they agree with you about what the problem is. It's almost like you want to be alone in any fight. You claim you know many people people who know wolves have been transplanted, yet not one of them has taken a picture. They must all have flip phones, right? Sorry, but unlike Democrats and you, I need evidential corroboration backing up serious claims. Once I see the evidence, I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen.
Post by: bearpaw on October 31, 2018, 11:51:32 AM
Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game :dunno:Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case 8)
:chuckle:
:chuckle:
In reality if you saw one of the animals in said picture could you really shoot it and say “WDFW say they are coyotes”?
1-WDFW doesn’t say they’re coyotes.
2-is it ok to shoot a moose in granite falls and call it a deer because there are no moose in granite falls?
I’m curious to know what the actual words are that come out of wdfw’s mouth all the time when they say there are no wolves somewhere.
I've heard the exact words that come out of WDFW. I called and reported wolves that tried to get into a friends german shephard pen that lives a few miles from my place. He saw the wolves trying to get into the kennels, said the wolves were as larger than his german sheperds, and fired shots to scare them away. After sending a couple agents to investigate the regional manager called me and sternly told me there were no wolves there and that the guy saw coyotes.
Post by: wolfbait on October 31, 2018, 12:01:05 PM
So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."
I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.
According to you P-man..
On the other hand, I know of several people who claim other wise and this may be a surprise to you but, they aren't crazy, they are upstanding citizens of the community, and they are and were taken seriously when they said they saw WDFW Green rigs with wolves being released.
I know one rancher who lost a yearling steer to wolves a year before the lookout pack was confirmed, the lookout pack was confirm within a few miles of where he lost the yearling. This rancher gave WDFW scat samples and wolf hair, they said they would put it with their Sasquatch sightings. They said there were no wolves.
People in ID, MT, and Wyoming all said they could watch the wolves eat their way out as they expanded. Funny how the lookout pack "migrated" miles through prime prey to settle a few miles outside of Twisp.
And then there's the fact that the USFWS, WDFW, and lets not forget CNW all have a different answer as to where the lookout pack "migrated" from.
The little bit of info. I furnished probably won’t even peek your interest without a picture P-man, which really doesn’t matter to 97% of people in the Okanogan that have had to deal with this strange “migration”. Quite sure they would have a few words for you with your claim that they sound crazy or weren’t to be taken seriously.
It’s fine for you to go on believing WDFW, when they say they didn’t release wolves, after all they have always been so honest. And of course it’s ok for you to say that anyone who believes WDFW did release wolves, sounds crazy or won’t be taken seriously without pictures, I bet your reasoning sounds really good to the antis and WDF&Wolves
Where did the “migrating”wolves come from P-man? We probably need a picture, several pictures...
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Northern Rocky Mountain Recovery Program Update
2008
Until 2008, no wild wolves had been confirmed west of the DPS boundary in Washington or Oregon. However, in July 2008, a wolf pack (2 adults and 6 pups) was discovered near Twisp, WA (just east of the North Cascades and west of the DPS boundary). Genetic testing showed these wolves did not originate from the NRM DPS; instead they apparently dispersed southward from the wolf population in southcentral British Columbia. Both adults were radio-collared and the pack is being monitored via radio telemetry by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. If this pack persists it will remain separated and distinct from the NRM DPS by the large expanse of unsuitable wolf habitat in eastern WA and OR.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf
DNA samples confirm gray wolves are back in Methow Valley By Joyce Campbell
Methow Valley News
July 24, 2008
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.”http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley
Is there a difference between “southcentral British Columbia” and “northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada”?
Perhaps the USFWS and WDFW should have gotten their story straight as to where they were going to say the wolves came from? I guess they couldn’t say, we hauled them in from Idaho with horse trailers, it just wouldn’t fit the narrative of: (“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.” )
*Update* – June 13, 2014:
“DNA obtained from Lookout Pack wolves has shown they are descendents of wolves living in coastal British Columbia”, who lived separately from inland wolves for many generations, “Conservation Northwest” said in a press release. http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/
http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/
Meanwhile wolves are slaughtering the game herds in areas where WDFW refuse to confirm wolves, imagine that.
Ah, I've been waiting for an attack from the voice of reason. You attack anyone who doesn't toe your exact line, even when they agree with you about what the problem is. It's almost like you want to be alone in any fight. You claim you know many people people who know wolves have been transplanted, yet not one of them has taken a picture. They must all have flip phones, right? Sorry, but unlike Democrats and you, I need evidential corroboration backing up serious claims. Once I see the evidence, I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen.
Yep, that was some attack I launched on you, hope you heal quickly.
I posted facts P-man, which area do you think the wolves came from? The Honest USFWS, WDFW, and CNW all seem to have different ideas.
Post by: wolfbait on October 31, 2018, 01:52:00 PM
How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..
Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".
https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/
Non Native Wolves Illegally Introduced, Says Whistleblower
Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf
New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 31, 2018, 02:18:07 PM
Post by: bigmacc on October 31, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
Post by: Southpole on October 31, 2018, 04:07:48 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 31, 2018, 04:20:29 PM
I don't know what % of pure DNA satisfies the ESA, likely that threshold is met and this is a mute point. I'd like to see it challenged. (maybe it has been)
edit: after doing more reading there are 3 ways to satisfy ESA, even if these wolves were hybrids they're easily a distinct population segment.
nevermind
Post by: KFhunter on October 31, 2018, 04:23:02 PM
I’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.
Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf. The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not. Let that sink in.
Post by: jackelope on October 31, 2018, 04:43:15 PM
@SouthpoleI’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.
Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf. The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not. Let that sink in.
Curious to know...do you think that they say "they're not wolves" or do you think they say "we can't confirm they're wolves" because there is a difference.
Last I heard from a friend close to the Granite wolf incident(yesterday afternoon), the lady who took the photo didn't actually contact WDFW and she didn't want the news involved either.
Edit to say she filed an online report but hadn't actually called anyone from WDFW so WDFW never actually said "they're not wolves."
Post by: KFhunter on October 31, 2018, 05:28:10 PM
@SouthpoleI’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.
Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf. The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not. Let that sink in.
Curious to know...do you think that they say "they're not wolves" or do you think they say "we can't confirm they're wolves" because there is a difference.
Last I heard from a friend close to the Granite wolf incident(yesterday afternoon), the lady who took the photo didn't actually contact WDFW and she didn't want the news involved either.
Edit to say she filed an online report but hadn't actually called anyone from WDFW so WDFW never actually said "they're not wolves."
Honestly, I think whomever answers the phone automatically thinks they're talking to another idot that doesn't know a housecat from a bobcat, or a german shepard from a wolf, or a corgi from a coyote. They have to get a pile of phone calls on these sorts of things
*ring* *ring* *ring*
WDFW: Hellow Washington department of wildlife how may I direct your call?
Caller: Hi, ya I have wolves in my backyard!!! OMG! OMG!! OMG!!!
WDFW: What is your location? (/sigh, not another one of these calls)
Caller: ya I live in Granite Falls
WDFW: (wth?? that's in town, it's probably german shepherds or stray dogs, or coyotes, or stray llamas, so sick of these maroons calling /sigh) What is your address?
Caller: my address is at xxx location
WDFW: There are no wolves in that area
Caller: They look like wolves! They're grey and furry and they look big and and and and
WDFW: Sorry I couldn't help you further, goodbye
Caller goes to FB to share with the world that WDFW say's her pictures aren't wolves.
edit: this particular caller may not have called WDFW directly, but I could see this as how it could go down.
Post by: Southpole on October 31, 2018, 05:37:26 PM
Well, there’s probably some verbal interpretation between people involved with wolf incidents/sightings. It all depends what “team” you’re on. I would imagine a wdfw officer would say “we can’t confirm” and the whitness/victim would interpret the officer saying “it’s not a wolf, probably a coyote”. However, there’s so much corruption and muddiness in the department that I would not be at all surprised that the officers in field have to follow policies set by the administration to verbally respond in a particular manner, even though they know better.@SouthpoleI’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.
Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf. The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not. Let that sink in.
Curious to know...do you think that they say "they're not wolves" or do you think they say "we can't confirm they're wolves" because there is a difference.
Last I heard from a friend close to the Granite wolf incident(yesterday afternoon), the lady who took the photo didn't actually contact WDFW and she didn't want the news involved either.
Edit to say she filed an online report but hadn't actually called anyone from WDFW so WDFW never actually said "they're not wolves."
Post by: KFhunter on October 31, 2018, 05:41:41 PM
It's one step better than voicemail, but not much. They'd record the location, time and probably add it to the online reporting thingie for you.
Post by: Southpole on October 31, 2018, 05:44:42 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 31, 2018, 05:52:54 PM
They probably have the same map of the wolves that they have online, and anything reported outside of known packs on that map all get the same answer "there are no wolves in that area"
I just can't imagine it going any different than that. Now if you called WDFW and there was a cougar/bear/wolf eating your prized mini stallion stud horse they'd refer it to WDFW police immediately, but for possible sightings and nothing is getting eaten... I just can't see much weight put on each call, there has to be a LOT of calls and most of them frivolous.
Post by: HighlandLofts on October 31, 2018, 07:43:24 PM
If I shoot a coyote I'll leave it where it hits the ground, I dont eat dog meat and the hide isn't worth a wooden nickle.
Post by: jmscon on October 31, 2018, 09:00:27 PM
I also don’t know why wolves couldn’t migrate from eastern Washington or BC, there are moose in the skagit, where did they come from. Wolves there too.
In 2006 and 2009 black bears were chased around in Seattle.
I also seem to remember a collared wolf traveling from northeastern Washington into B.C. and over into Montana.
Animals migrate
Post by: jackelope on October 31, 2018, 10:18:24 PM
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/cluster-of-wolf-reports-in-central-snohomish-county/
Post by: Dan-o on October 31, 2018, 10:47:09 PM
P-man wrote: I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen."
How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..
Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".
https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/
Non Native Wolves Illegally Introduced, Says Whistleblower
Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf
New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf
I think P-Man's point was that you've posted no evidence of wolves being re-introduced into Washington.
Do you have ANY evidence of wolf relocations into Washington?
I don't give the Government enough credit to think they could do it without evidence leaking out.
Post by: O. hemionus on November 01, 2018, 01:13:18 AM
I would love for a WDFW person to explain how call ins work.Generally speaking, this is how reports work:
1) Preferred method: Reporting party (RP) goes online to the WDFW website and uses the online wolf observation reporting tool to submit the observation. (https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/). Regional District Biologists (of which there is usually 1 Bio and 1 assistant Bio per district in the state) and/or Conflict staff (again, of which there is usually 1 per district) regularly monitor the reports that come in and follow up on the reports that appear credible and those that are feasible to follow up on. The statewide wolf biologist also monitors the reports that comes in and coordinates with local staff to investigate if necessary. This may entail a phone call/email for more info and may lead to further action depending on the nature of the report. The public can also see the reports that come in on map at the above website, though they are only pinpointed to the closest township/range intersection. The report mentioned by the OP in this thread appears to have already been submitted via the reporting tool by the RP.
Alternate reporting methods:
2) RP can contact the customer service desk at their local regional office (all regional office numbers are listed online). These reports get forwarded to local WDFW Enforcement, Bio, and/or Conflict staff for further review and/or follow-up.
3) RP can submit a wolf observation report via email or phone to WDFW WILDCOMM dispatch at 1-877-933-9847, though this avenue is generally more for actual incidents such as livestock depredations or dangerous wildlife encounters. Reports get forwarded to local WDFW Enforcement, Bio, and/or Conflict staff.
4) Reports are occasionally submitted to local WDFW staff through personal communication. These reports are shared among staff, and most are logged on the online reporting tool, depending on the nature of the report. Additional follow up may occur, again depending on the nature of the report.
They probably have the same map of the wolves that they have online, and anything reported outside of known packs on that map all get the same answer "there are no wolves in that area"
Similar to cougars, lots of calls (though not as many) come in to dispatch and regional customer service offices concerning wolf sightings. Those staff members do their best to record the general information (similar to the reporting tool). However, the reports are then passed on to Enforcement, District Biologists, and Conflict Staff to sort through.
It is highly likely, and even expected, for wolves to be observed outside of known pack territories. That is how wolves move across the landscape. If a wolf never left its home territory, then no new wolf packs would ever form and wolves would still be relegated to Idaho and Yellowstone in the lower 48. Last year, a wolf collared by WDFW in NE WA dispersed and actually made its way into the Yellowstone area. Several other long-distance dispersal movements by other collared wolves were also documented (see the 2017 annual report for known dispersal activities of collared wolves). Wolves, especially dispersing individuals, are known to travel substantial distances. WDFW does not discredit wolf sightings just because they are outside of known pack territories. Take the Skagit wolf as a good example of an individual that dispersed from somewhere and ended up creating a home range outside of any other previously known pack territories. At any given time, the likelihood is high that there are multiple individual wolves around the state dispersing and travelling outside of known pack territories. WDFW is also very clear in their annual wolf reports indicating that the wolf counts and wolf pack territories are minimum estimates, meaning that it is extremely likely that individual wolves and even possibly entire packs are undetected at the time of annual wolf surveys. At this point in time, with the number of wolves and their current known distribution across the state, a sighting pretty much anywhere in the state is not outside of the realm of possibility (with a few obvious exceptions).
I just can't imagine it going any different than that. Now if you called WDFW and there was a cougar/bear/wolf eating your prized mini stallion stud horse they'd refer it to WDFW police immediately, but for possible sightings and nothing is getting eaten... I just can't see much weight put on each call, there has to be a LOT of calls and most of them frivolous.
Again, it is WDFW’s job to sort through each report to determine which may be credible and which are not. In looking at the public wolf observation map online, most people could take a stab at which reports might be credible and which are likely coyotes, domestic dogs, etc. Sometimes pictures are referenced. Most of the time, there aren’t photos associated with reports, making it more difficult to determine potential sightings versus misidentified sightings.
Hope this helps.
Post by: bearpaw on November 01, 2018, 06:30:25 AM
Post by: Bob33 on November 01, 2018, 06:34:29 AM
In defense of WDFW I must say they have to deal with all sorts of crazy reports. For example several years ago a Colville resident had spotted a cougar behind his house on the edge of town and took a shot at it, the cougar ran away, then he reported the incident. It's not unusual for cougar to come into Colville, it happens pretty often and there were other recent cougar sightings so people were on the lookout for cougar. A couple days later another nearby resident found one of his horses had been shot. The rifle involved in the cougar incident and the bullet from the horse were tested, it was a match, the guy who shot at the cougar actually shot a horse and firmly believed he had shot a cougar. :yike:Trying to get the horse's pelt sealed in 72 hours must have been interesting.
Post by: jackelope on November 01, 2018, 06:55:53 AM
I would love for a WDFW person to explain how call ins work.Generally speaking, this is how reports work:
1)Preferred method: Reporting party (RP) goes online to the WDFW website and uses the online wolf observation reporting tool to submit the observation. (https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/). Regional District Biologists (of which there is usually 1 Bio and 1 assistant Bio per district in the state) and/or Conflict staff (again, of which there is usually 1 per district) regularly monitor the reports that come in and follow up on the reports that appear credible and those that are feasible to follow up on. The statewide wolf biologist also monitors the reports that comes in and coordinates with local staff to investigate if necessary. This may entail a phone call/email for more info and may lead to further action depending on the nature of the report. The public can also see the reports that come in on map at the above website, though they are only pinpointed to the closest township/range intersection. The report mentioned by the OP in this thread appears to have already been submitted via the reporting tool by the RP.
Alternate reporting methods:
2)RP can contact the customer service desk at their local regional office (all regional office numbers are listed online). These reports get forwarded to local WDFW Enforcement, Bio, and/or Conflict staff for further review and/or follow-up.
3)RP can submit a wolf observation report via email or phone to WDFW WILDCOMM dispatch at 1-877-933-9847, though this avenue is generally more for actual incidents such as livestock depredations or dangerous wildlife encounters. Reports get forwarded to local WDFW Enforcement, Bio, and/or Conflict staff.
4)Reports are occasionally submitted to local WDFW staff through personal communication. These reports are shared among staff, and most are logged on the online reporting tool, depending on the nature of the report. Additional follow up may occur, again depending on the nature of the report.They probably have the same map of the wolves that they have online, and anything reported outside of known packs on that map all get the same answer "there are no wolves in that area"
Similar to cougars, lots of calls (though not as many) come in to dispatch and regional customer service offices concerning wolf sightings. Those staff members do their best to record the general information (similar to the reporting tool). However, the reports are then passed on to Enforcement, District Biologists, and Conflict Staff to sort through.
It is highly likely, and even expected, for wolves to be observed outside of known pack territories. That is how wolves move across the landscape. If a wolf never left its home territory, then no new wolf packs would ever form and wolves would still be relegated to Idaho and Yellowstone in the lower 48. Last year, a wolf collared by WDFW in NE WA dispersed and actually made its way into the Yellowstone area. Several other long-distance dispersal movements by other collared wolves were also documented (see the 2017 annual report for known dispersal activities of collared wolves). Wolves, especially dispersing individuals, are known to travel substantial distances. WDFW does not discredit wolf sightings just because they are outside of known pack territories. Take the Skagit wolf as a good example of an individual that dispersed from somewhere and ended up creating a home range outside of any other previously known pack territories. At any given time, the likelihood is high that there are multiple individual wolves around the state dispersing and travelling outside of known pack territories. WDFW is also very clear in their annual wolf reports indicating that the wolf counts and wolf pack territories are minimum estimates, meaning that it is extremely likely that individual wolves and even possibly entire packs are undetected at the time of annual wolf surveys. At this point in time, with the number of wolves and their current known distribution across the state, a sighting pretty much anywhere in the state is not outside of the realm of possibility (with a few obvious exceptions).I just can't imagine it going any different than that. Now if you called WDFW and there was a cougar/bear/wolf eating your prized mini stallion stud horse they'd refer it to WDFW police immediately, but for possible sightings and nothing is getting eaten... I just can't see much weight put on each call, there has to be a LOT of calls and most of them frivolous.
Again, it is WDFW’s job to sort through each report to determine which may be credible and which are not. In looking at the public wolf observation map online, most people could take a stab at which reports might be credible and which are likely coyotes, domestic dogs, etc. Sometimes pictures are referenced. Most of the time, there aren’t photos associated with reports, making it more difficult to determine potential sightings versus misidentified sightings.
Hope this helps.
Great info. Thanks for sharing.
Post by: bearpaw on November 01, 2018, 07:12:38 AM
In defense of WDFW I must say they have to deal with all sorts of crazy reports. For example several years ago a Colville resident had spotted a cougar behind his house on the edge of town and took a shot at it, the cougar ran away, then he reported the incident. It's not unusual for cougar to come into Colville, it happens pretty often and there were other recent cougar sightings so people were on the lookout for cougar. A couple days later another nearby resident found one of his horses had been shot. The rifle involved in the cougar incident and the bullet from the horse were tested, it was a match, the guy who shot at the cougar actually shot a horse and firmly believed he had shot a cougar. :yike:Trying to get the horse's pelt sealed in 72 hours must have been interesting.
:chuckle: If I remember correctly the horse lived. Apparently the guy wasn't a very good shot either!
Post by: nwwanderer on November 01, 2018, 07:44:44 AM
Post by: Southpole on November 01, 2018, 07:55:14 AM
I know this will come as a shock to some of you, and I hope you will recover, but there is a wdfw employee quoted in this article as saying it is “possible” there are wolves out there in Granite Falls.“It’s possible”! Whoa, that’s a pretty bold statement there! I hope she doesn’t loose her job by stating that :P
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/cluster-of-wolf-reports-in-central-snohomish-county/ (http://nwsportsmanmag.com/cluster-of-wolf-reports-in-central-snohomish-county/)
Post by: Rainier10 on November 01, 2018, 09:35:53 AM
Post by: Special T on November 01, 2018, 09:40:20 AM
I live in Normandy Park/Burien, we have a ton of coyotes. Neighbors report them as wolves all the time. I feel sorry for the WDFW and other agencies that have to deal with false reports, it makes it even tougher when a report is actually true.
Big difference between normandy park, Granit falls or rural areas of Skagit and Whatcom counties...
I would say that the biggest gripe is being blown off when reporting in a rural area. Makes some one whom is actually trying to help wonder why they put for the effort of the WDFW asks. :twocents:
Post by: Rainier10 on November 01, 2018, 09:58:21 AM
We have our own wildlife here in Burien. Won't be long until we have some wolves looking for this tender little morsel.I live in Normandy Park/Burien, we have a ton of coyotes. Neighbors report them as wolves all the time. I feel sorry for the WDFW and other agencies that have to deal with false reports, it makes it even tougher when a report is actually true.
Big difference between normandy park, Granit falls or rural areas of Skagit and Whatcom counties...
I would say that the biggest gripe is being blown off when reporting in a rural area. Makes some one whom is actually trying to help wonder why they put for the effort of the WDFW asks. :twocents:
http://b-townblog.com/2016/11/15/photos-confused-deer-spotted-on-10th-ave-sw-in-burien-tuesday-morning/
Or this guy from a few years before.
https://www.facebook.com/KOMONews/posts/take-a-look-at-what-police-in-burien-spent-last-night-chasing-around-a-deer-wand/771756322892702/
Post by: Cylvertip on November 01, 2018, 10:16:59 AM
Post by: wolfbait on November 01, 2018, 10:27:02 AM
P-man wrote: I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen."
How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..
Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".
https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/
Non Native Wolves Illegally Introduced, Says Whistleblower
Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf
New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf
I think P-Man's point was that you've posted no evidence of wolves being re-introduced into Washington.
Do you have ANY evidence of wolf relocations into Washington?
I don't give the Government enough credit to think they could do it without evidence leaking out.
I guess you didn't read any of the links I posted, if you had you would have seen that the "USFWS etc. did a fine job on the illegal end of releasing wolves etc.. But somehow P-man doesn't believe WDFW would be a part of anything illegal. Amazing.
Tell me again about the first wolf pack in 70 years.
I don't need anymore proof then I already have, but I got to thinking about how the USFWS, WDFW, and CNW couldn't get their DNA story straight as to where the lookout pack came from. I went through some info. I had on the pack from 2009 etc. and found some info that stated that the Methow wolves came from Minnesota. Now that would be one heck of a long migration wouldn't it? I wonder what a FOIA request would reveal as to the lookout packs DNA origin?
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 01, 2018, 11:10:53 AM
P-man wrote: I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen."
How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..
Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".
https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/
Non Native Wolves Illegally Introduced, Says Whistleblower
Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf
New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf
I think P-Man's point was that you've posted no evidence of wolves being re-introduced into Washington.
Do you have ANY evidence of wolf relocations into Washington?
I don't give the Government enough credit to think they could do it without evidence leaking out.
Please don't feed the trolls. :bdid:
Post by: jackelope on November 01, 2018, 02:11:44 PM
They look pretty well fed. Won't be surprised if they belong to someone in the area. That being said, there is a whole lot of nothin between here and the East side. I've seen large canine tracks while winter wheeling between here and Darington. They were many miles away from anything. Nothing will surprise me. Better get the trail cams back on the beaver bait station I guess.
@Cylvertip
I've heard talk of someone who owns some wolf dogs or maybe a rescue or something along those lines out there?
Post by: KFhunter on November 01, 2018, 04:09:35 PM
I would love for a WDFW person to explain how call ins work.Generally speaking, this is how reports work:
<snip>
Hope this helps.
yes, thank you.
I hope you don't think I was bagging on WDFW for how call in sightings are handled, I was more bagging on people who don't know the difference between a horse or a cougar and call it in.
I know it would be difficult to sort through because everyone KNOWS what they seen!
There's plenty of other things to bag on WDFW for :chuckle:
Post by: Dan-o on November 01, 2018, 09:28:49 PM
P-man wrote: I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen."
How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..
Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".
https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/
Non Native Wolves Illegally Introduced, Says Whistleblower
Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf
New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf
I think P-Man's point was that you've posted no evidence of wolves being re-introduced into Washington.
Do you have ANY evidence of wolf relocations into Washington?
I don't give the Government enough credit to think they could do it without evidence leaking out.
I guess you didn't read any of the links I posted, if you had you would have seen that the "USFWS etc. did a fine job on the illegal end of releasing wolves etc.. But somehow P-man doesn't believe WDFW would be a part of anything illegal. Amazing.
Tell me again about the first wolf pack in 70 years.
I don't need anymore proof then I already have, but I got to thinking about how the USFWS, WDFW, and CNW couldn't get their DNA story straight as to where the lookout pack came from. I went through some info. I had on the pack from 2009 etc. and found some info that stated that the Methow wolves came from Minnesota. Now that would be one heck of a long migration wouldn't it? I wonder what a FOIA request would reveal as to the lookout packs DNA origin?
OK, so no proof that WDFW has ever relocated a wolf illegally.
That's what I thought.
Thanks.
That being the case, hunters really should band together for a solution that isn't based in conspiracy theory.
Post by: Vine Maples and Cottonwoo on November 01, 2018, 11:41:32 PM
Post by: Alchase on November 02, 2018, 10:27:41 AM
P-man wrote: I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen."
How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..
Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".
https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/
Non Native Wolves Illegally Introduced, Says Whistleblower
Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone
IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf
Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf
New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf
I think P-Man's point was that you've posted no evidence of wolves being re-introduced into Washington.
Do you have ANY evidence of wolf relocations into Washington?
I don't give the Government enough credit to think they could do it without evidence leaking out.
I guess you didn't read any of the links I posted, if you had you would have seen that the "USFWS etc. did a fine job on the illegal end of releasing wolves etc.. But somehow P-man doesn't believe WDFW would be a part of anything illegal. Amazing.
Tell me again about the first wolf pack in 70 years.
I don't need anymore proof then I already have, but I got to thinking about how the USFWS, WDFW, and CNW couldn't get their DNA story straight as to where the lookout pack came from. I went through some info. I had on the pack from 2009 etc. and found some info that stated that the Methow wolves came from Minnesota. Now that would be one heck of a long migration wouldn't it? I wonder what a FOIA request would reveal as to the lookout packs DNA origin?
OK, so no proof that WDFW has ever relocated a wolf illegally.
That's what I thought.
Thanks.
That being the case, hunters really should band together for a solution that isn't based in conspiracy theory.
Too late :sry:
Wolves re-introduced, Agenda 21, lets add Mel's hole, crop signs and contrails,....... BINGO!
:tinfoil:
:peep:
8)
Post by: wolfbait on November 02, 2018, 10:35:10 AM
Thanks WolfBait, for the Links. I read the 3rd one. Very interesting, very concerning. Not hard to see the same thing taking place within our State, and within WDFW and the WAG/Commission. In fact, after reading this Link, its not at all difficult to see similar things taking place here, and in fact, one wonders if we are being managed similarly, or have been for some time. I'm thinking; Deliberately being Managed into a Predator Pit. One thing I find interesting, and worth pondering, is that Hebblewhite would advocate for wolves, though he has studied/seen, first hand, the effect on ungulate populations. Strange. I read a book some years ago, about the Yellowstone wolf recovery, where it was said that the plan for recovery of wolves dates back to the 40's, and that Aldo Leupold was involved, and advocated for it. If this is true, then this whole thing goes back farther than we think. One would wonder why. Who, and what, is behind this? There are a lot of organizations advocating for Wildlife Corridors, etc. I believe Agenda 21 has a Map of planned zones. Interesting to ponder for sure.
There is evidence of the USFWS and state game agencies planting wolves in other states as far back as the 1960's that I know of. Through these releases they discovered that the wolves would just return to their home ranges, that's why the USFWS put the wolves in large kennels and fed and held them for days when they brought them in from Canada.
Makes sense that the USFWS would release wolves from Minnesota into WA and Oregon, as the wolves would work their way back to their home range, a few might stop off along the way. The "Migrating" wolves are more than likely heading back to their home range.
There's two kinds of releases, soft release is where they dump wolves and then feed them and hard releases is they dump them and never look back. A Washington state highway employee that had retired said that, in 2004 WDFW was getting all the road kill they could to feed some wolves they had released above Mazama.
The history of the USFWS, IDFG and Montana Park Service is much the same as Washingtons present history to date, it's like WA is following the same play book.
To your point of Agenda 21, and some of the language of the wolf introduction etc. are the same. And if you look at WDFW thirty year plan, it reeks of agenda 21 language.
Sportsmen Pay For Biodiversity Agenda
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2024%20Jul-Sep%202007%20A%20New%20Solution%20to%20Non-Game%20Program%20Funding%20.pdf
The links below show similarities with WDFW's handling of wolves in comparison with ID.
What They Didn’t Tell You About Wolf Recovery
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf
FWS Biologist Says Wolf Numbers Underestimated
Mech Says 3,000 Wolves Exist in ID, MT & WY
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No.28%20May%202008%20FWS%20Biologist%20Says%20Wolf%20Numbers%20Underestimated%20Mech%20Says%203,000%20Wolves%20Exist%20in%20ID,%20MT%20&%20WY.pdf
I have to troll down to the barn and feed my broncs, sent you a PM.
Post by: timberghost72 on November 02, 2018, 12:39:09 PM
Reference material. The red balloon icon is pretty much exactly where the pic of these wolves was taken. Not too far to the east is the glacier peak wilderness and then a little further east is Twisp. It’s not hard to picture where these wolves came from.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181031/7b9b422c30c955dc1183bcfbe296ccbb.jpg)
The sighting was in or near the Bogart Meadows neighborhood in town. I live in Pilchuck East and this was not in the neighborhood.
We have a neighborhood discussion board here and if a cat sneezes we would hear about it :chuckle:
We have a few bears and one recent cougar sighting though. Lots of photos of deer and bear but no cougars or wolves.
Post by: jackelope on November 02, 2018, 01:29:52 PM
Reference material. The red balloon icon is pretty much exactly where the pic of these wolves was taken. Not too far to the east is the glacier peak wilderness and then a little further east is Twisp. It’s not hard to picture where these wolves came from.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181031/7b9b422c30c955dc1183bcfbe296ccbb.jpg)
The sighting was in or near the Bogart Meadows neighborhood in town. I live in Pilchuck East and this was not in the neighborhood.
We have a neighborhood discussion board here and if a cat sneezes we would hear about it :chuckle:
We have a few bears and one recent cougar sighting though. Lots of photos of deer and bear but no cougars or wolves.
No clue. We have friends that live in that area. They told me where. They’re possibly wrong I guess.
She added it was a gated community with 1/4-1/2 acre lots where the pic was taken.
Post by: Southpole on November 02, 2018, 05:01:19 PM
Like fancy gated neighborhood? I’ve been there three times buying wiener pigs from those people and it’s not a gated community and the property is at least 10 or more acres along with their neighbors property not far out of town.Reference material. The red balloon icon is pretty much exactly where the pic of these wolves was taken. Not too far to the east is the glacier peak wilderness and then a little further east is Twisp. It’s not hard to picture where these wolves came from.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181031/7b9b422c30c955dc1183bcfbe296ccbb.jpg)
The sighting was in or near the Bogart Meadows neighborhood in town. I live in Pilchuck East and this was not in the neighborhood.
We have a neighborhood discussion board here and if a cat sneezes we would hear about it :chuckle:
We have a few bears and one recent cougar sighting though. Lots of photos of deer and bear but no cougars or wolves.
No clue. We have friends that live in that area. They told me where. They’re possibly wrong I guess.
She added it was a gated community with 1/4-1/2 acre lots where the pic was taken.
Post by: timberghost72 on November 02, 2018, 05:29:44 PM
Post by: Southpole on November 02, 2018, 05:32:18 PM
Some info I read today is the photo was taken around Menzel Lake Rd and Waite Mill road which is 1 mile south of town. Whether or not that is true, who knows. No gated community at that location but 2 miles south there is. I'm going to drive by on my way home to see if I can find out anything.You’re correct on that description.
Post by: Widgeondeke on November 02, 2018, 05:49:54 PM
Some info I read today is the photo was taken around Menzel Lake Rd and Waite Mill road which is 1 mile south of town. Whether or not that is true, who knows. No gated community at that location but some gated driveways. 2 miles south there is. I'm going to drive by on my way home to see if I can find out anything.
There is a pig farmer at that intersection :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on November 02, 2018, 06:18:19 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 02, 2018, 06:23:42 PM
Post by: wadu1 on November 02, 2018, 06:34:27 PM
Post by: Tbar on November 02, 2018, 07:31:49 PM
Post by: Southpole on November 02, 2018, 07:39:24 PM
Post by: Tbar on November 02, 2018, 07:44:29 PM
I think they are just people taking a picture in their back yard and sharing it on Facebook.Yeah, you are right. Just incite fear of children's safety. Also all of the mid slinging on here.
Post by: timberghost72 on November 02, 2018, 07:57:43 PM
Are the people who made the claims working with wdfw to confirm weather these were wolves or NOT wolves? Or did they just post something on the internet and allow assumptions of how situations such as this are handled? Hmmm......
The person who took the photo said they reported it to WDFW. They seem pretty adamant that it was a wolf. I am not so sure they are wolves as it is a stones throw away from town and plenty of houses and farms in the area for other folks to see them :dunno:. Also it is right by the Limn Kiln Trail, popular county park hiking trail. There have been reports of wolves over the years near here and up the Loop but nothing substantial that I know of. One report came from a LEO saying he saw a black one. There is a ton of private timberland, state land and federal land in the area so who knows. It wouldn't surprise me.
@jackelope I've heard the same thing about hybrids around here also.
Post by: Special T on November 02, 2018, 09:21:10 PM
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Post by: Tbar on November 02, 2018, 09:47:56 PM
I saw 4 wolves a stones throw away from Sedro Woolley almost 20 years ago... proximity means nothing.A woman was cited for releasing hybrids around the same time.
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Post by: timberghost72 on November 02, 2018, 10:23:23 PM
https://www.kiro7.com/news/north-sound-news/wolves-may-be-moving-to-western-washington/863347341?fbclid=IwAR025M_T7VSnLK3LEZ7WhVtLBa7CocwM0_BY53Mb1wDMrj8IdGzZ1wbB-8I
Edit. After watching this again it sounds like this story was a second sighting from the OP photo sighting. Says it was near Pilchuck Highlands. Not sure exactly where that is.
So possibly 2 sighting :dunno: