Wolves in granite

[jackelope]

Reference material. The red balloon icon is pretty much exactly where the pic of these wolves was taken. Not too far to the east is the glacier peak wilderness and then a little further east is Twisp. It’s not hard to picture where these wolves came from.

[pianoman9701]

So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."

I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.

According to you P-man..

On the other hand, I know of several people who claim other wise and this may be a surprise to you but, they aren't crazy, they are upstanding citizens of the community, and they are and were taken seriously when they said they saw WDFW Green rigs with wolves being released.

I know one rancher who lost a yearling steer to wolves a year before the lookout pack was confirmed, the lookout pack was confirm within a few miles of where he lost the yearling. This rancher gave WDFW scat samples and wolf hair, they said they would put it with their Sasquatch sightings. They said there were no wolves.

People in ID, MT, and Wyoming all said they could watch the wolves eat their way out as they expanded. Funny how the lookout pack "migrated" miles through prime prey to settle a few miles outside of Twisp.

And then there's the fact that the USFWS, WDFW, and lets not forget CNW all have a different answer as to where the lookout pack "migrated" from.

  The little bit of info. I furnished probably won’t even peek your interest without a picture P-man, which really doesn’t matter to 97% of people in the Okanogan that have had to deal with this strange “migration”. Quite sure they would have a few words for you with your claim that they sound crazy or weren’t to be taken seriously.

It’s fine for you to go on believing WDFW, when they say they didn’t release wolves, after all they have always been so honest. And of course it’s ok for you to say that anyone who believes WDFW did release wolves, sounds crazy or won’t be taken seriously without pictures, I bet your reasoning  sounds really good to the antis and WDF&Wolves

Where did the “migrating”wolves come from P-man? We probably need a picture, several pictures...


U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Northern Rocky Mountain Recovery Program Update
2008
Until 2008, no wild wolves had been confirmed west of the DPS boundary in Washington or Oregon. However, in July 2008, a wolf pack (2 adults and 6 pups) was discovered near Twisp, WA (just east of the North Cascades and west of the DPS boundary). Genetic testing showed these wolves did not originate from the NRM DPS; instead they apparently dispersed southward from the wolf population in southcentral British Columbia. Both adults were radio-collared and the pack is being monitored via radio telemetry by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. If this pack persists it will remain separated and distinct from the NRM DPS by the large expanse of unsuitable wolf habitat in eastern WA and OR.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf
DNA samples confirm gray wolves are back in Methow Valley By Joyce Campbell
Methow Valley News
July 24, 2008
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.”http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley
Is there a difference between “southcentral British Columbia” and “northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada”?
Perhaps the USFWS and WDFW should have gotten their story straight as to where they were going to say the wolves came from? I guess they couldn’t say, we hauled them in from Idaho with horse trailers, it just wouldn’t fit the narrative of: (“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.” )
*Update* – June 13, 2014:
“DNA obtained from Lookout Pack wolves has shown they are descendents of wolves living in coastal British Columbia”, who lived separately from inland wolves for many generations, “Conservation Northwest” said in a press release. http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/

http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/

Meanwhile wolves are slaughtering the game herds in areas where WDFW refuse to confirm wolves, imagine that.

Ah, I've been waiting for an attack from the voice of reason. You attack anyone who doesn't toe your exact line, even when they agree with you about what the problem is. It's almost like you want to be alone in any fight. You claim you know many people people who know wolves have been transplanted, yet not one of them has taken a picture. They must all have flip phones, right? Sorry, but unlike Democrats and you, I need evidential corroboration backing up serious claims. Once I see the evidence, I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen.

[bearpaw]

Wdfw said they aren’t wolves so that means fair game

Are you serious?! Can’t wait see some in my back yard if that’s the case

 
 

In reality if you saw one of the animals in said picture could you really shoot it and say “WDFW say they are coyotes”?

1-WDFW doesn’t say they’re coyotes.
2-is it ok to shoot a moose in granite falls and call it a deer because there are no moose in granite falls?

I’m curious to know what the actual words are that come out of wdfw’s mouth all the time when they say there are no wolves somewhere.

I've heard the exact words that come out of WDFW. I called and reported wolves that tried to get into a friends german shephard pen that lives a few miles from my place. He saw the wolves trying to get into the kennels, said the wolves were as larger than his german sheperds, and fired shots to scare them away. After sending a couple agents to investigate the regional manager called me and sternly told me there were no wolves there and that the guy saw coyotes.

[wolfbait]

So according to WDFW these wolves just wandered here from Idaho?The state has no reintroduction program?I guess the state doesn't want it's employees looking in the camera and telling the truth."These wolves are dangerous pets of the state and we allow them to roam free in your communities."

I have yet to see a single picture of wolves being transplanted in WA. I don't believe it's ever happened. It hasn't been necessary. Judging from where most of them are located in our state, migration from ID doesn't seem far fetched at all. If you oppose the wolf plan and consequent population boom as I do, forming and following conspiracy theories about wolf translocation, without any corroborating evidence, makes us look crazy and people won't take us seriously.

According to you P-man..

On the other hand, I know of several people who claim other wise and this may be a surprise to you but, they aren't crazy, they are upstanding citizens of the community, and they are and were taken seriously when they said they saw WDFW Green rigs with wolves being released.

I know one rancher who lost a yearling steer to wolves a year before the lookout pack was confirmed, the lookout pack was confirm within a few miles of where he lost the yearling. This rancher gave WDFW scat samples and wolf hair, they said they would put it with their Sasquatch sightings. They said there were no wolves.

People in ID, MT, and Wyoming all said they could watch the wolves eat their way out as they expanded. Funny how the lookout pack "migrated" miles through prime prey to settle a few miles outside of Twisp.

And then there's the fact that the USFWS, WDFW, and lets not forget CNW all have a different answer as to where the lookout pack "migrated" from.

  The little bit of info. I furnished probably won’t even peek your interest without a picture P-man, which really doesn’t matter to 97% of people in the Okanogan that have had to deal with this strange “migration”. Quite sure they would have a few words for you with your claim that they sound crazy or weren’t to be taken seriously.

It’s fine for you to go on believing WDFW, when they say they didn’t release wolves, after all they have always been so honest. And of course it’s ok for you to say that anyone who believes WDFW did release wolves, sounds crazy or won’t be taken seriously without pictures, I bet your reasoning  sounds really good to the antis and WDF&Wolves

Where did the “migrating”wolves come from P-man? We probably need a picture, several pictures...


U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Northern Rocky Mountain Recovery Program Update
2008
Until 2008, no wild wolves had been confirmed west of the DPS boundary in Washington or Oregon. However, in July 2008, a wolf pack (2 adults and 6 pups) was discovered near Twisp, WA (just east of the North Cascades and west of the DPS boundary). Genetic testing showed these wolves did not originate from the NRM DPS; instead they apparently dispersed southward from the wolf population in southcentral British Columbia. Both adults were radio-collared and the pack is being monitored via radio telemetry by Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. If this pack persists it will remain separated and distinct from the NRM DPS by the large expanse of unsuitable wolf habitat in eastern WA and OR.
http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/wolf/annualrpt08/FINAL_2008_USFWS_Recovery_Program_Update_3-17-09.pdf
DNA samples confirm gray wolves are back in Methow Valley By Joyce Campbell
Methow Valley News
July 24, 2008
DNA tests showed that the wolves originated from a population in the northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada.
“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.”http://www.conservationnw.org/news/pressroom/press-clips/dna-samples-confirm-gray-wolves-are-back-in-methow-valley
Is there a difference between “southcentral British Columbia” and “northern British Columbia and Alberta provinces of Canada”?
Perhaps the USFWS and WDFW should have gotten their story straight as to where they were going to say the wolves came from? I guess they couldn’t say, we hauled them in from Idaho with horse trailers, it just wouldn’t fit the narrative of: (“This is a natural colonization,” said Fitkin. “The wolves are naturally immigrating.” )
*Update* – June 13, 2014:
“DNA obtained from Lookout Pack wolves has shown they are descendents of wolves living in coastal British Columbia”, who lived separately from inland wolves for many generations, “Conservation Northwest” said in a press release. http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/06/25/will-federal-delisting-impact-states-wolves/

http://tomremington.com/2014/06/09/the-naturally-migrating-gi-wolves/

Meanwhile wolves are slaughtering the game herds in areas where WDFW refuse to confirm wolves, imagine that.

Ah, I've been waiting for an attack from the voice of reason. You attack anyone who doesn't toe your exact line, even when they agree with you about what the problem is. It's almost like you want to be alone in any fight. You claim you know many people people who know wolves have been transplanted, yet not one of them has taken a picture. They must all have flip phones, right? Sorry, but unlike Democrats and you, I need evidential corroboration backing up serious claims. Once I see the evidence, I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen.

Yep, that was some attack I launched on you, hope you heal quickly.

I posted facts P-man, which area do you think the wolves came from? The Honest USFWS, WDFW, and CNW all seem to have different ideas.

[wolfbait]

P-man wrote: I'll be happy to concede the point and will be on the front lines confronting the WDFW. Until that time, these are wild and unproven conspiracy theories that would've taken the cooperation of several agencies and scores of government employees willing to break the law. If it doesn't make sense it didn't happen."

How you feeling P-man? I see you have some of your color back..

Here's a little more info. for you about the agencies involved in so called "conspiracy theories".


https://montanapioneer.com/non-native-wolves-illegally-introduced-says-whistleblower-2/

Non Native Wolves Illegally  Introduced, Says Whistleblower

Former USFWS Official Speaks of Malfeasance, Misappropriated Funds, and Transplanting Wrong Subspecies to Yellowstone



IDFG Continues to Deny It Violated Idaho Law

http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%2039%20May%202010-IDFG%20Continues%20to%20Deny.pdf


Idaho F&G Director Warns F&G Commission Not to Show Controversial Wolf Documents to Public

http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/George%20Dovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2038%20Feb-April%202010%20IDFG%20Director%20Warns%20%20Commission%20.pdf


New Revelations about Reintroduced Wolves
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%20No%20%2034%20April-May%202009.pdf

[pianoman9701]

It's going to get pretty lonely fightin everyone WB. Have fun with that. 

[bigmacc]

One of the incidences where I lost faith in the WDFW was when we showed a video of a wolf to some WDFW fellas over in the Methow,(this was after the switchover to WDFW). Ive told the story on here before but we filmed a wolf up in the Tiffany area that walked along side a road, dropped down onto the road at stared us down, it was huge, at least twice the size of my lab, we threw rocks at it, whistled and yelled and it eventually dropped over the side of the road and slinked away. My dad at that time had at least spent half his life in Alaska working at my grandparents canaries or the 6 years he spent working on the pipeline as an Ironworker, he has seen hundreds and hundreds of wolves. This was a wolf, 100%, no doubt, IT WAS A WOLF! We showed the video and were told it was a big coyote , if it was it was a mutant, alien strain of yote because it was at least 120-150 lbs easy. My dad actually started laughing and asked "are you serious, you actually think that is a coyote?" then comicaly asked the regional guy(I believe) "If you think thats a coyote you need to retake your animal identification class". At the time my cousin was a biologist for the state of Idaho, we showed him the video.........no question at all guys, "its a wolf".

[Southpole]

I’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.

[KFhunter]

ALL our wolves are hybrids, it may be a tiny fractional % but they all have domestic canine DNA.  Black is not a naturally occurring color in canis lupus.

I don't know what % of pure DNA satisfies the ESA, likely that threshold is met and this is a mute point.  I'd like to see it challenged. (maybe it has been)

edit:  after doing more reading there are 3 ways to satisfy ESA, even if these wolves were hybrids they're easily a distinct population segment.

nevermind

[KFhunter]

I’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.

Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf.  The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not.  Let that sink in.

[jackelope]

I’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.

Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf.  The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not.  Let that sink in.

@Southpole

Curious to know...do you think that they say "they're not wolves" or do you think they say "we can't confirm they're wolves" because there is a difference.

Last I heard from a friend close to the Granite wolf incident(yesterday afternoon), the lady who took the photo didn't actually contact WDFW and she didn't want the news involved either.
Edit to say she filed an online report but hadn't actually called anyone from WDFW so WDFW never actually said "they're not wolves."

[KFhunter]

I’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.

Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf.  The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not.  Let that sink in.

@Southpole

Curious to know...do you think that they say "they're not wolves" or do you think they say "we can't confirm they're wolves" because there is a difference.

Last I heard from a friend close to the Granite wolf incident(yesterday afternoon), the lady who took the photo didn't actually contact WDFW and she didn't want the news involved either.
Edit to say she filed an online report but hadn't actually called anyone from WDFW so WDFW never actually said "they're not wolves."

Honestly, I think whomever answers the phone automatically thinks they're talking to another idot that doesn't know a housecat from a bobcat, or a german shepard from a wolf, or a corgi from a coyote.   They have to get a pile of phone calls on these sorts of things

*ring*  *ring* *ring*

WDFW:  Hellow Washington department of wildlife how may I direct your call?

Caller:  Hi, ya I have wolves in my backyard!!!  OMG!  OMG!! OMG!!!

WDFW:  What is your location?  (/sigh, not another one of these calls)

Caller:  ya I live in Granite Falls

WDFW:  (wth?? that's in town, it's probably german shepherds or stray dogs, or coyotes, or stray llamas, so sick of these maroons calling /sigh)  What is your address?

Caller:  my address is at xxx location

WDFW: There are no wolves in that area

Caller:  They look like wolves!  They're grey and furry and they look big and and and and

WDFW:  Sorry I couldn't help you further, goodbye


Caller goes to FB to share with the world that WDFW say's her pictures aren't wolves.


edit:  this particular caller may not have called WDFW directly, but I could see this as how it could go down.

[Southpole]

I’m quite certain wdfw ground personnel knows they’re wolves, they’re just following protocol from upper management to say they were just coyotes.

Exactly right, I had a neighbor that had a badly injured calf.  The evidence was so clear (wolves howling 100yrds away, tracks, bite marks) and so undeniable the WDFW police on scene was forced to call Olympia and get a final determination if it was a wolf kill or not.  Let that sink in.

@Southpole

Curious to know...do you think that they say "they're not wolves" or do you think they say "we can't confirm they're wolves" because there is a difference.

Last I heard from a friend close to the Granite wolf incident(yesterday afternoon), the lady who took the photo didn't actually contact WDFW and she didn't want the news involved either.
Edit to say she filed an online report but hadn't actually called anyone from WDFW so WDFW never actually said "they're not wolves."

Well, there’s probably some verbal interpretation between people involved with wolf incidents/sightings. It all depends what “team” you’re on. I would imagine a wdfw officer would say “we can’t confirm” and the whitness/victim would interpret the officer saying “it’s not a wolf, probably a coyote”. However, there’s so much corruption and muddiness in the department that I would not be at all surprised that the officers in field have to follow policies set by the administration to verbally respond in a particular manner, even though they know better.

[KFhunter]

I wouldn't think these types of phone calls get past the front desk phone clerks (secretaries?) let alone to a WDFW bio, or police, or anyone higher up the chain that could speak with any kind of authority or knowledge. 

It's one step better than voicemail, but not much.  They'd record the location, time and probably add it to the online reporting thingie for you.

[Southpole]

I also didn’t hear anything about the Browns calling wdfw either, I was responding to Bowhunter3 saying the dept. said they aren’t wolves. ALSO, that was my first “mention”!!!