Post by: HoofsandWings on February 17, 2019, 12:17:13 PM
I believe there was an attempt today. The coyote ran no more that 20 feet in front of the dog. And when I called him back, the coyote stopped too.
There have been 3 coyotes seen together in the vicinity. My guess is they were trying to set a trap.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 17, 2019, 02:08:48 PM
They definitely mean business. I know of three dogs around here killed by that same strategy
Post by: elkboy on February 17, 2019, 03:05:13 PM
Post by: Bill W on February 17, 2019, 03:53:15 PM
Post by: Shannon on February 17, 2019, 04:11:47 PM
Post by: KFhunter on February 17, 2019, 04:40:06 PM
My Brittany seems pretty good at bringing in Coyotes, she never leaves her fenced in front yard so she's not "tolling", but she has a yippy bark and does a fair job at bringing in coyotes to the back yard...she's learned that if she barks at a coyote - it dies, but I don't use her specifically for calling in yotes as that would be illegal.
doesn't bark at deer or turkey, but yotes its game on :chuckle:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 17, 2019, 06:06:26 PM
I'd love to toll coyotes! youtube "Decoy dogs" if you haven't seen it done. Predator university is good too.
My Brittany seems pretty good at bringing in Coyotes, she never leaves her fenced in front yard so she's not "tolling", but she has a yippy bark and does a fair job at bringing in coyotes to the back yard...she's learned that if she barks at a coyote - it dies, but I don't use her specifically for calling in yotes as that would be illegal.
doesn't bark at deer or turkey, but yotes its game on :chuckle:
Nice.👍
Post by: Bill W on February 17, 2019, 08:07:42 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on February 17, 2019, 08:33:14 PM
I think you need to read the regs a bit more closely.I'll bite,please tell me where you read what,I would like to read it again. :tup:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on February 17, 2019, 10:45:25 PM
I think you need to read the regs a bit more closely.
I think is what is being referred to regarding using "dogs to hunt" coyote.
Guess it would depend on how the dogs were being used or what they are or aren't doing whether this would apply or not? :dunno:
Post by: Oh Mah on February 17, 2019, 10:59:04 PM
there's a semi-local caller that uses a dog and gets the dog to lure the coyote into range... turnabout is fair play.What is being posted here is 100% illegal in the state of Washington unless the semi local caller is doing so with authorization through the WDFW.
Post by: KFhunter on February 17, 2019, 11:01:04 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on February 17, 2019, 11:05:06 PM
Post by: Bill W on February 18, 2019, 08:23:00 AM
I thinkyouI need to read the regs a bit more closely.
I edited my statement. In the past it was legal to use greyhounds for coyotes, then later it was still legal to use dogs but not as chase dogs. I will say the rights of hunters are really being eroded. Pretty soon it will be illegal to even look at a coyote. Hunters should start getting organized before they are legislated out of being able to hunt.
Post by: Southpole on February 18, 2019, 08:41:16 AM
Post by: bornhunter on February 18, 2019, 08:50:03 AM
Post by: Samloffler on February 18, 2019, 09:42:24 AM
Post by: bornhunter on February 18, 2019, 10:11:29 AM
Nah, that's protecting your livestock.
Post by: boneaddict on February 18, 2019, 10:13:25 AM
So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
Probably in their eyes but not in most peoples. As law abiding as I try to be, I'm sure there is an RCW out there that vilifies my existense, in other words I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.
Post by: bornhunter on February 18, 2019, 10:25:52 AM
So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
Probably in their eyes but not in most peoples. As law abiding as I try to be, I'm sure there is an RCW out there that vilifies my existense, in other words I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.
Yeah, would probably boil down to which WDFW officer checked you out. This actually happened when my dog went down an old logging road and was a good distance away and she started barking which she had never done before. I blew my whistle and she came running back with a coyote right on her butt trying to hamstring her. The yote didnt see me so as soon as my dog cleared the yote it was game over for that songdog. Ever since if my dog sees, hears or smells a yote she goes nuts and wants to after them.
Post by: Stein on February 18, 2019, 12:28:46 PM
I would have no worry at all if I ended up shooting any animal if I was out with my dog doing something else and it got attacked.
Post by: AWS on February 19, 2019, 11:30:24 AM
I used to hunt with a dog and he would lay at my side and use his nose to warn me of any coming down wind into the call or spot ones I missed out in the brush. I was told it was still illegal because the dog was there while hunting coyote. When asked about shooting a coyote while bird hunting I was told it wasn't the intent of the law BUT it would be in the hands of the officer observing it.
My dog and I hunted all over the west but in WA he had to stay in the truck.
Post by: Toddthebossboy on May 24, 2019, 10:05:39 AM
Post by: konradcountry on June 07, 2019, 06:01:56 PM
So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
You'd have to appear to be hunting coyote to get a ticket. If you are just going for a walk and you have a gun then you are defending your dog from a wild animal.
But that would never happen with a lab.
Coyotes go after toy dogs and cats. In suburban areas they figure out how to act like a friendly domestic dog and pets go right up to them.
Post by: AL WORRELLS KID on June 22, 2019, 06:57:59 PM
Doug
Post by: Jonathan_S on June 24, 2019, 11:09:25 AM
So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
You'd have to appear to be hunting coyote to get a ticket. If you are just going for a walk and you have a gun then you are defending your dog from a wild animal.
But that would never happen with a lab.
Coyotes go after toy dogs and cats. In suburban areas they figure out how to act like a friendly domestic dog and pets go right up to them.
I've seen plenty full sized dogs baited by coyotes. Co-worker had his husky ripped to death by a pair. My parents black and tan coonhound goes about 83# and had his flanks opened up and I saw that happen. Sure our small dogs get it too and I've lost a couple beagles and had another get ripped up real bad but those coyotes kill big dogs plenty times.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 24, 2019, 01:12:52 PM
:yeah:So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
You'd have to appear to be hunting coyote to get a ticket. If you are just going for a walk and you have a gun then you are defending your dog from a wild animal.
But that would never happen with a lab.
Coyotes go after toy dogs and cats. In suburban areas they figure out how to act like a friendly domestic dog and pets go right up to them.
I've seen plenty full sized dogs baited by coyotes. Co-worker had his husky ripped to death by a pair. My parents black and tan coonhound goes about 83# and had his flanks opened up and I saw that happen. Sure our small dogs get it too and I've lost a couple beagles and had another get ripped up real bad but those coyotes kill big dogs plenty times.
My 80 lb shorthair was wel on his way to running Right to the middle of 5-6 yotes one day. They were hiding and one was drawing my dog. I saw it happening and zapped the crap out of my dog with his e collar before he got out there and for him turned around.
Post by: konradcountry on June 25, 2019, 01:33:06 PM
So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
You'd have to appear to be hunting coyote to get a ticket. If you are just going for a walk and you have a gun then you are defending your dog from a wild animal.
But that would never happen with a lab.
Coyotes go after toy dogs and cats. In suburban areas they figure out how to act like a friendly domestic dog and pets go right up to them.
I've seen plenty full sized dogs baited by coyotes. Co-worker had his husky ripped to death by a pair. My parents black and tan coonhound goes about 83# and had his flanks opened up and I saw that happen. Sure our small dogs get it too and I've lost a couple beagles and had another get ripped up real bad but those coyotes kill big dogs plenty times.
I've never seen it and I lived in Pierce for a while which is coyote country thanks to the shooting restrictions. All the "lost pet" signs were for cats and small dogs. Our neighborhood lab would chase them for fun.
Here is a Boston Terrier chasing one off
Not saying that husky wasn't killed but that isn't the norm.
They really aren't built to kill something as large as a lab. They are pretty lousy deer killers unless it is a fawn or sick adult.
Post by: Bullkllr on June 25, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
... don't look real healthy at the end, though.
Hungry coyotes could kill most any dog, given the situation, imo.
Post by: lamrith on June 25, 2019, 02:01:31 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 02:46:58 PM
So if you are out in the boonies with your lab and your dog comes barreling out if the brush with a songdog nipping at her heels and you just happen to be carrying a 223 with you and you just happen to smoke the sucker, is that coyote hunting with dogs?
You'd have to appear to be hunting coyote to get a ticket. If you are just going for a walk and you have a gun then you are defending your dog from a wild animal.
But that would never happen with a lab.
Coyotes go after toy dogs and cats. In suburban areas they figure out how to act like a friendly domestic dog and pets go right up to them.
I've seen plenty full sized dogs baited by coyotes. Co-worker had his husky ripped to death by a pair. My parents black and tan coonhound goes about 83# and had his flanks opened up and I saw that happen. Sure our small dogs get it too and I've lost a couple beagles and had another get ripped up real bad but those coyotes kill big dogs plenty times.
I've never seen it and I lived in Pierce for a while which is coyote country thanks to the shooting restrictions. All the "lost pet" signs were for cats and small dogs. Our neighborhood lab would chase them for fun.
Here is a Boston Terrier chasing one off
Not saying that husky wasn't killed but that isn't the norm.
They really aren't built to kill something as large as a lab. They are pretty lousy deer killers unless it is a fawn or sick adult.
If they kill dogs or not is a regional thing. One can't really use absolutes with coyotes as they can be so different regionally.
Around here they don't hardly ever kill a pet, they haven't even carried off our cats that sit out in the hayfield gophering totally exposed.
I've never had one chase a dog even though I use a 30lb Brittany that should be fair game to a pack of yotes.
Someone else I knew had a golden that would "play" with 4-5 coyotes and never got bit, this went on for years.
Yet in other areas they'd flat tear up a lone dog.
As for killing deer they are very effective especially during the winter, I see deer all the time out on the river ice trying to escape yotes, deer drown every year trying to escape yotes. Its documented they have killed moose.
Yotes are underestimated.
Post by: konradcountry on June 25, 2019, 03:22:13 PM
This buck doesn't look real sick...
Coyotes group killing an animal that large is extremely rare and we don't know what state the buck started in.
Just because it happens on occasion does not mean it is a normal part of their diet.
Odds of a lab being attacked on a walk through the woods by coyotes is so unlikely that it is nothing to worry about. 99.9% of the time the coyotes already ran once they smelled him.
If coyotes were really a threat to labs they would take them all the time like they do cats. There is a reason why there is always a warning for "small dogs and cats" when a problem coyote is reported.
Post by: Bullkllr on June 25, 2019, 03:49:27 PM
Not saying it happens all the time everywhere, but it happens often enough to be well documented.This buck doesn't look real sick...
Coyotes group killing an animal that large is extremely rare and we don't know what state the buck started in.
Just because it happens on occasion does not mean it is a normal part of their diet.
Odds of a lab being attacked on a walk through the woods by coyotes is so unlikely that it is nothing to worry about. 99.9% of the time the coyotes already ran once they smelled him.
If coyotes were really a threat to labs they would take them all the time like they do cats. There is a reason why there is always a warning for "small dogs and cats" when a problem coyote is reported.
I don't think anyone is or should be "worried" about coyotes while out walking their lab. Take the human out of the equation and you might see a different outcome.
The kind of predation (larger animals/pets) is very situationally dependent, but let's not kid ourselves, if all coyotes had to eat was labs, then labs would be the daily special. Just depends on available and easier food sources.
Post by: zwickeyman on June 25, 2019, 04:47:50 PM
For sure Coyotes lure dogs to kill them. Typically one Coyote will lure a dog away from his safety zone where there will be 2 or 3 coyotes in wait for ambush. Witnessed it with success once and failure multiple times
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2019, 06:02:54 PM
Post by: Okanagan on June 25, 2019, 06:25:33 PM
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They really aren't built to kill something as large as a lab. They are pretty lousy deer killers unless it is a fawn or sick adult.
Actually, coyotes are super efficient at killing healthy adult deer when conditions favor the coyote, and they can and do kill them when conditions are not favorable. When crusted snow is hard enough for coyotes to run on top of it while deer hooves go through, coyotes easily run down deer, and with a few inches of snow to run on, are at neck or even head level with the deer. Easy kill. Coyotes will major on eating deer in such conditions, which are not rare conditions in north central WA.
A second situation where coyotes kill deer is to drive the deer onto lake ice and chase it around a bit till its feet slip on the ice, often breaking a leg in the process, but an easy kill for coyotes either way. On Shuswap Lake in BC, once the lake freezes coyotes regularly and deliberately chase/herd deer onto the lake ice and kill them, or used to and I assume they still do.
On three occasions I have watched a single coyote lure a dog into chasing it into an ambush with other coyotes. Edited to specify the dogs lured: One was a springer spaniel, one was a red heeler and the third was a mongrel that looked to me like it was a black lab/German shepherd mix.
Merely observed facts.
Post by: konradcountry on June 26, 2019, 09:27:48 AM
Actually, coyotes are super efficient at killing healthy adult deer when conditions favor the coyote, and they can and do kill them when conditions are not favorable. When crusted snow is hard enough for coyotes to run on top of it while deer hooves go through, coyotes easily run down deer, and with a few inches of snow to run on, are at neck or even head level with the deer. Easy kill. Coyotes will major on eating deer in such conditions, which are not rare conditions in north central WA.
Yes it's known they can wear them out in the snow but that doesn't make them efficient deer killers. They aren't wolves and in Western Wa they will sit and watch deer walk by. If they were efficient deer killers then they would be chasing them all the time. But they let them walk knowing it's probably a waste of time.
I don't doubt that luring has occurred but that isn't the norm.
Every single report I have read about hikers getting their dog bit involved a small dog. There are thousands of people walking dogs every day through our forests. If coyotes actually viewed larger dogs as lunch it would happen all the time. Every single report I read involved a hiker with a small dog and it didn't matter if it was on a leash.
If you lost a lab to a pack of coyotes it would probably be a case where the lab wondered in alone thinking the coyotes wanted to play and then a coyote gets a lethal first bite. It's not going to be on a walk. They aren't going to just spot a 75lb dog with a human and chase it.
Post by: Thermal Predator Control on June 29, 2019, 04:55:03 PM