Post by: Parasite on February 22, 2019, 01:14:59 AM
Post by: elkrack on February 22, 2019, 04:48:27 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 22, 2019, 05:11:09 AM
Post by: time2hunt on February 22, 2019, 06:24:35 AM
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Post by: HUNTNORTHWEST on February 22, 2019, 07:05:47 AM
Post by: Special T on February 22, 2019, 07:07:22 AM
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Post by: mburrows on February 22, 2019, 07:14:59 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2019, 07:18:23 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 22, 2019, 07:24:09 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on February 22, 2019, 07:55:59 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on February 22, 2019, 08:00:44 AM
There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden. Believe it or not, it would only help to answer people's questions and concerns on here. If there were any bashing, the admin could and would immediately stop it. Another slap in the face for our beyond pathetic WDFW. :twocents:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 08:26:42 AM
There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
It's not WDFW, Alaska State Troopers and many police agencies have stopped this practice. He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar. Also, what he stated on this or any other board could be used as a defence by somebody accused of a wildlife crime, even if the quoted statements are taken out of context. Too many issues.
Post by: birddogdad on February 22, 2019, 08:42:30 AM
\There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
It's not WDFW, Alaska State Troopers and many police agencies have stopped this practice. He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar. Also, what he stated on this or any other board could be used as a defence by somebody accused of a wildlife crime, even if the quoted statements are taken out of context. Too many issues.
yep was too good for us to "ask the expert" the internet is NOT your friend (from any legal point) period...enter at your own risk...
Post by: trophyhunt on February 22, 2019, 09:02:05 AM
Post by: jagermiester on February 22, 2019, 09:38:45 AM
\There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
It's not WDFW, Alaska State Troopers and many police agencies have stopped this practice. He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar. Also, what he stated on this or any other board could be used as a defence by somebody accused of a wildlife crime, even if the quoted statements are taken out of context. Too many issues.
yep was too good for us to "ask the expert" the internet is NOT your friend (from any legal point) period...enter at your own risk...
I have a wardens number in my phone from when my son took hunter safety. He said that I could call him any time if I ever had a question.
Question: Can my son (16) legally go bird hunting by himself?
I called the game dept. I then got passed around to three different people and all three had different answers the last person told me that I should call the sheriff's office and ask them because the game dept does not have a min age but it would be illegal for a minor to possess a firearm without me present, which I did and they told me that they would not enforce a law like that in their county (Kittitas and Grant) but careful if he is in King county. Then I remembered that I had the game wardens number. I called him and he looked up the RCW and he educated me in a way that no one else could. Turns out it is fine for him to possess a firearm without me if he is using it for hunting. It has been my experience that Wardens are very smart if you have a question ask one they will have the answer.
Post by: jrebel on February 22, 2019, 09:45:22 AM
Again...pretty decent dude when we got to the bottom of it. Not cool how he went about his business. Me and my daughter had a talk about how to deal with situations like this in the future (talk to people we don't know). I have no concerns that they are watching as I am always on the up and up....but this event caused me add security / surveilance to my property.
Post by: Wazukie on February 22, 2019, 09:48:11 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 10:00:34 AM
\There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
It's not WDFW, Alaska State Troopers and many police agencies have stopped this practice. He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar. Also, what he stated on this or any other board could be used as a defence by somebody accused of a wildlife crime, even if the quoted statements are taken out of context. Too many issues.
yep was too good for us to "ask the expert" the internet is NOT your friend (from any legal point) period...enter at your own risk...
I have a wardens number in my phone from when my son took hunter safety. He said that I could call him any time if I ever had a question.
Question: Can my son (16) legally go bird hunting by himself?
I called the game dept. I then got passed around to three different people and all three had different answers the last person told me that I should call the sheriff's office and ask them because the game dept does not have a min age but it would be illegal for a minor to possess a firearm without me present, which I did and they told me that they would not enforce a law like that in their county (Kittitas and Grant) but careful if he is in King county. Then I remembered that I had the game wardens number. I called him and he looked up the RCW and he educated me in a way that no one else could. Turns out it is fine for him to possess a firearm without me if he is using it for hunting. It has been my experience that Wardens are very smart if you have a question ask one they will have the answer.
But none of that was on the record. Crucial difference in why they don't answer such questions on a forum.
Post by: Bob33 on February 22, 2019, 10:28:20 AM
Post by: bigtex on February 22, 2019, 10:30:01 AM
I miss UCwarden, good guy that wrote a great book about our biggest poaching case ever in wa. He hasn’t been on here for a long time.He's enjoying his retirement
Post by: Rainier10 on February 22, 2019, 10:38:43 AM
:yeah:There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
It's not WDFW, Alaska State Troopers and many police agencies have stopped this practice. He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar. Also, what he stated on this or any other board could be used as a defence by somebody accused of a wildlife crime, even if the quoted statements are taken out of context. Too many issues.
Would be a great resource but too many issues legally.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2019, 10:43:39 AM
There are numerous people within WDFW who watch this site for a number of reasons.
Post by: Rainier10 on February 22, 2019, 10:53:00 AM
One warden told me that social media is his top resource, facebook specifically is his #1 resource.I have heard that same thing from two different officers in the field.
There are numerous people within WDFW who watch this site for a number of reasons.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 22, 2019, 11:54:19 AM
One warden told me that social media is his top resource, facebook specifically is his #1 resource.
There are numerous people within WDFW who watch this site for a number of reasons.
Yes, but I think the OP is asking about WDFW LE as a resource on here, specifically.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2019, 11:59:59 AM
One warden told me that social media is his top resource, facebook specifically is his #1 resource.
There are numerous people within WDFW who watch this site for a number of reasons.
Yes, but I think the OP is asking about WDFW LE as a resource on here, specifically.
understood :tup:
not sure if any will speak up, I would suggest calling a regional office
Post by: MtnMuley on February 22, 2019, 01:56:19 PM
One warden told me that social media is his top resource, facebook specifically is his #1 resource.
There are numerous people within WDFW who watch this site for a number of reasons.
Yes, but I think the OP is asking about WDFW LE as a resource on here, specifically.
I agree.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 22, 2019, 01:59:13 PM
There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar.
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Post by: Special T on February 22, 2019, 02:04:31 PM
There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar.
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
The leos that do make points usually point out an RCW and then an example of how they have dealt with it. probably the most honest kind of anonymous answer your going to get IMO.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 02:04:49 PM
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 02:09:54 PM
The leos that do make points usually point out an RCW and then an example of how they have dealt with it. probably the most honest kind of anonymous answer your going to get IMO.
I think you’re right, but too much chance that the poster could be viewed as an official spokesperson when in fact they are not, and many chances the answer could morph into legal advice.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 22, 2019, 02:13:14 PM
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 02:18:52 PM
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
And again, if these hypotheticals were answered in the affirmative and in similar situations another officer cited different individuals for infractions, the cited hunters would have a defense even if the first officer was in error in stating that the actions were legal.
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
I think both of those require a legal opinion to answer, hence an identifiable officer giving an answer is giving legal advice without being member of the bar.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 22, 2019, 02:37:30 PM
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
I think both of those require a legal opinion to answer, hence an identifiable officer giving an answer is giving legal advice without being member of the bar.
If I pull over the next Warden I see and ask him both exact questions, you're telling me he won't answer? How is that any different? I've never met a Warden (and I know most every one within 100 miles), that wouldn't answer either of those questions if they had the answer or knew. What's the difference if I'm fishing with a friend and I've caught 4 trout in a lake where I know 5 is the limit and a Warden approaches me and I ask him if the limit is one more for me? He's not going to answer because he's not a member of the bar? Let's get real
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 02:47:37 PM
If I pull over the next Warden I see and ask him both exact questions, you're telling me he won't answer? How is that any different? I've never met a Warden (and I know most every one within 100 miles), that wouldn't answer either of those questions if they had the answer or knew. What's the difference if I'm fishing with a friend and I've caught 4 trout in a lake where I know 5 is the limit and a Warden approaches me and I ask him if the limit is one more for me? He's not going to answer because he's not a member of the bar? Let's get real
Let’s get real real here.
You should know that there is a difference between a verbal statement and the preserved written word entombed forever on the www.
Post by: Stein on February 22, 2019, 02:50:57 PM
It's very straight forward, you won't get much posted on the internet from law enforcement. The questions you posted aren't how many fish are in a limit, they require interpretation of the law since it isn't clearly called out in the RCW or regulations whether a bullet traveling over private property is trespassing.
If you want an answer, every warden in the state has their phone and e-mail published and you can call or e-mail and and ask directly.
Post by: Special T on February 22, 2019, 03:03:13 PM
If I pull over the next Warden I see and ask him both exact questions, you're telling me he won't answer? How is that any different? I've never met a Warden (and I know most every one within 100 miles), that wouldn't answer either of those questions if they had the answer or knew. What's the difference if I'm fishing with a friend and I've caught 4 trout in a lake where I know 5 is the limit and a Warden approaches me and I ask him if the limit is one more for me? He's not going to answer because he's not a member of the bar? Let's get real
Let’s get real real here.
You should know that there is a difference between a verbal statement and the preserved written word entombed forever on the www.
:yeah: which is why the the only leo that speaks on these issues is careful how he types things, remains anonymous, and cites RCWs and speaks of personal or others experience... Usually with a caveat!
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 03:12:34 PM
If I pull over the next Warden I see and ask him both exact questions, you're telling me he won't answer? How is that any different? I've never met a Warden (and I know most every one within 100 miles), that wouldn't answer either of those questions if they had the answer or knew. What's the difference if I'm fishing with a friend and I've caught 4 trout in a lake where I know 5 is the limit and a Warden approaches me and I ask him if the limit is one more for me? He's not going to answer because he's not a member of the bar? Let's get real
Let’s get real real here.
You should know that there is a difference between a verbal statement and the preserved written word entombed forever on the www.
:yeah: which is why the the only leo that speaks on these issues is careful how he types things, remains anonymous, and cites RCWs and speaks of personal or others experience... Usually with a caveat!
And he keeps it real
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2019, 03:14:16 PM
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Answer to the questions:
1) Not legal
2) Legal
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 22, 2019, 03:14:41 PM
Post by: Special T on February 22, 2019, 03:20:03 PM
And the only LEO here has steadfastly refused to confirm for whom he works.
Anyone whom read what happened to WDFWinsider on here would be very careful what they posted on here IF they did so at all!
Post by: Bob33 on February 22, 2019, 03:23:11 PM
I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
Post by: chester on February 22, 2019, 03:25:56 PM
I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
I believe the feds take jurisdiction and they have different wording then the state on USFS lands.
Post by: Bob33 on February 22, 2019, 03:42:15 PM
That could be. USFS regulations would take precedence.I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
I believe the feds take jurisdiction and they have different wording then the state on USFS lands.
Post by: jagermiester on February 22, 2019, 11:54:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on February 23, 2019, 01:01:24 AM
:yeah:I believe the feds take jurisdiction and they have different wording then the state on USFS lands.I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
36 CFR 261.10(d)(2):
The following are prohibited:
(d)Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:
(2)Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
This regulation applies to any USFS road, even USFS roads which are not on National Forests. Confused yet? :chuckle:
The USFS actually has roads on state/private property. Typically this is a result of land transactions where at one time the USFS owned the surrounding lands which where then traded/sold, however the road itself was never traded/sold. So a private/state entity owns the land surrounding the USFS road. Another example would be 100 years ago the USFS put in the road to access their land 20 miles up in the hills and the land surrounding it is private. A good example of this is the White River Tree Farm near Enumclaw where the "main line" north of 410 at Grass Mountain is actually USFS Road 7110 which no longer touches USFS land.
Post by: Parasite on February 23, 2019, 02:31:09 AM
Yes, but I think the OP is asking about WDFW LE as a resource on here, specifically.
You are correct. Plus I've used said resource in the past to have loopholes in the game laws closed.
I sure opened a can of worms :sry:
Post by: jagermiester on February 23, 2019, 05:52:31 AM
Any game wardens use this website? Back on a forum I used to use in the Midwest, we were lucky enough to have a game warden that would frequent the forum and there was a specific forum to pose legal questions. Does anyone know if there are any game wardens on this site?
Seems like a simple question to me?? ;)
Bring in the crazy train :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil:
Post by: jdb on February 23, 2019, 06:23:58 AM
i agree with bob 100%. It best to know and understand the law yourself.I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 23, 2019, 06:25:41 AM
If I pull over the next Warden I see and ask him both exact questions, you're telling me he won't answer? How is that any different? I've never met a Warden (and I know most every one within 100 miles), that wouldn't answer either of those questions if they had the answer or knew. What's the difference if I'm fishing with a friend and I've caught 4 trout in a lake where I know 5 is the limit and a Warden approaches me and I ask him if the limit is one more for me? He's not going to answer because he's not a member of the bar? Let's get real
Let’s get real real here.
You should know that there is a difference between a verbal statement and the preserved written word entombed forever on the www.
:yeah: which is why the the only leo that speaks on these issues is careful how he types things, remains anonymous, and cites RCWs and speaks of personal or others experience... Usually with a caveat!
And he keeps it real
LMAO No way am I going to waste my time arguing on the almighty www with a guy like you. My point has been made. Sad it's come down to this with society these days.
Post by: MtnMuley on February 23, 2019, 06:33:17 AM
i agree with bob 100%. It best to know and understand the law yourself.I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
These were hypothetical questions I made up in reply to knockers request. I wasn't looking for an answer, but more so that I believed a "Warden" could give us an honest answer if it were lawful or not on this forum. Apparently not per knocker, because any "Warden" isn't a member of the bar. I've always took a man in uniform for his word, whether written or verbal.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 23, 2019, 06:48:59 AM
And the only LEO here has steadfastly refused to confirm for whom he works.
I think there are many more than one.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 23, 2019, 06:54:57 AM
LMAO No way am I going to waste my time arguing on the almighty www with a guy like you. My point has been made. Sad it's come down to this with society these days.
ROTFLMAOAWAIYA
It's not an issue of you arguing with me, given that everybody has told you the same thing as me regarding why LE does not usually answer specific enforcement and legal questions on the www, it is us arguing with a guy like you.
These were hypothetical questions I made up in reply to knockers request. I wasn't looking for an answer, but more so that I believed a "Warden" could give us an honest answer if it were lawful or not on this forum. Apparently not per knocker, because any "Warden" isn't a member of the bar. I've always took a man in uniform for his word, whether written or verbal.
Myself and several posters indicated how and why these questions are improper for a non-lawyer to answer. The answer requires a legal opinion. So blame me all you want, but if you read the thread you were told the exact same thing by many and in fact several agencies nationwide said the exact same thing when they reduced their forum footprints.
Just keeping it real.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 23, 2019, 06:58:06 AM
And the only LEO here has steadfastly refused to confirm for whom he works.
I think there are many more than one.
Yes, you are right. But only one seems to share his opinion on specific outdoor issues.
Post by: bobcat on February 23, 2019, 06:58:52 AM
Post by: jdb on February 23, 2019, 07:40:54 AM
its been my experience that they often to know the letter of the law but will act as a f they do. ymmv.i agree with bob 100%. It best to know and understand the law yourself.I'm an advocate of looking up the answers myself in the WACs and RCWs. No offense intended but not every enforcement officer will know every regulations or even interpret them correctly.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
Question 1: it depends. Read RCW 77.15.460. Did you negligently discharge the firearm? Not every instance of shooting from a road is illegal.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Question 2 is not addressed in any specific regulation. A case could be made that your bullet trespassed on private property but I've never heard of that charge being made. It's somewhat akin to the legal debate over corner crossing.
These were hypothetical questions I made up in reply to knockers request. I wasn't looking for an answer, but more so that I believed a "Warden" could give us an honest answer if it were lawful or not on this forum. Apparently not per knocker, because any "Warden" isn't a member of the bar. I've always took a man in uniform for his word, whether written or verbal.
Post by: grundy53 on February 23, 2019, 08:01:11 AM
Yet it was answered...LMAO No way am I going to waste my time arguing on the almighty www with a guy like you. My point has been made. Sad it's come down to this with society these days.
ROTFLMAOAWAIYA
It's not an issue of you arguing with me, given that everybody has told you the same thing as me regarding why LE does not usually answer specific enforcement and legal questions on the www, it is us arguing with a guy like you.These were hypothetical questions I made up in reply to knockers request. I wasn't looking for an answer, but more so that I believed a "Warden" could give us an honest answer if it were lawful or not on this forum. Apparently not per knocker, because any "Warden" isn't a member of the bar. I've always took a man in uniform for his word, whether written or verbal.
Myself and several posters indicated how and why these questions are improper for a non-lawyer to answer. The answer requires a legal opinion. So blame me all you want, but if you read the thread you were told the exact same thing by many and in fact several agencies nationwide said the exact same thing when they reduced their forum footprints.
Just keeping it real.
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Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 23, 2019, 08:12:17 AM
Yet it was answered...
The hypotheticals were answered by regular posters. BT did not actually give an answer, but supplied the applicable USC.
The bigger question was why doesn't LE participate in forums answering questions about specific occurances and conditions. LE doesn't want to participate because their answers could be construed as officially condoned legal advice. This is a nation wide issue and one where MM has difficulty accepting.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 23, 2019, 08:14:58 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 23, 2019, 08:18:34 AM
Another reason could be that they're tired of being attacked when they do explain something. I've seen many instances when BT has been given a ration just because he responded with facts to a legal inquiry regarding regs and laws.
Or at a lower aggravation level, just asked to rationalize the laws (RCW and WAC lumped together), which more than likely were written at the legislative, commision or upper managment level.
Post by: bigtex on February 23, 2019, 08:38:46 AM
Another reason could be that they're tired of being attacked when they do explain something. I've seen many instances when BT has been given a ration just because he responded with facts to a legal inquiry regarding regs and laws.:yeah:
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Post by: bigtex on February 23, 2019, 08:41:12 AM
Sorry I did not actually say the actual act of shooting from a USFS road was illegal. I figured posting the CFR saying the act of shooting from a road was illegal was sufficient.
Yet it was answered...
The hypotheticals were answered by regular posters. BT did not actually give an answer, but supplied the applicable USC.
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Post by: brew on February 23, 2019, 09:01:58 AM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 23, 2019, 09:07:52 AM
Sorry I did not actually say the actual act of shooting from a USFS road was illegal. I figured posting the CFR saying the act of shooting from a road was illegal was sufficient.
Yet it was answered...
The hypotheticals were answered by regular posters. BT did not actually give an answer, but supplied the applicable USC.
Sorry that really wasn't my point. My point was about legal advice. Your answer was more akin to answering "the limit in this lake is four legal size trout, how many is that?" :chuckle:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on February 23, 2019, 09:39:41 AM
Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
And again, if these hypotheticals were answered in the affirmative and in similar situations another officer cited different individuals for infractions, the cited hunters would have a defense even if the first officer was in error in stating that the actions were legal.
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
I think both of those require a legal opinion to answer, hence an identifiable officer giving an answer is giving legal advice without being member of the bar.
Now that's funny right there if you think about it. They can't tell you if it's legal or not because that's giving a legal opinion and they aren't qualified, but they are qualified to investigate and arrest you based on their unqualified view of the law.
And that my friends is why the average person breaks three Federal laws per day and a slough of other laws.
https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 23, 2019, 10:03:14 AM
After the 'spike' that was shot with a raffle tag in Central Washington, supposedly with game warden go ahead; I'd assume most of the wardens are probably a bit hesitant.:yeah:There was one on here years ago and would openly answer questions, as I recall he was asked by his chain of command to not do that any more.
.....and that's pathetic as hell. He doesn't have disclose his name, just that he's a warden.
It's not WDFW, Alaska State Troopers and many police agencies have stopped this practice. He's is basically giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar. Also, what he stated on this or any other board could be used as a defence by somebody accused of a wildlife crime, even if the quoted statements are taken out of context. Too many issues.
Would be a great resource but too many issues legally.
Post by: The scout on February 23, 2019, 10:52:49 AM
Post by: bigtex on February 23, 2019, 11:12:27 AM
They like to keep the grey areas grey. It’s better revenue that way.WDFW doesnt get fine money
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Post by: Crunchy on February 23, 2019, 11:18:36 AM
Post by: bigtex on February 23, 2019, 02:14:22 PM
Not directly, it goes to into the general fund for the state, who then decides how to share it.As of a couple years ago the legislature changed the law and now it goes to the county where the ticket was filed. WDFW requested this change to alleviate the concern WDFW was buying too much land and taking property tax revenue away from the county.
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Post by: grundy53 on February 23, 2019, 02:34:10 PM
It is pretty funny. They can ticket us for breaking the law but they can't tell us if something is legal or not.Since when did I say he should be on here giving legal opinions without being a member of the bar? There's legit questions asked by many of members on here weekly. How doe's having a Warden on here to answer questions even possibly sound like a bad idea?
Give a hypothetical question or two
Hypothetical:
1) I'm driving down a dirt USFS road grouse hunting. A blue grouse runs off the side of the road. I park my rig, get out, load my shotgun with a single shell, walk down the road and shoot the grouse as it attempts to fly away. Is this legal?
2) I'm hunting whitetail in the NE during the late general season. I'm using my OnX maps very extensively because I'm in a serious state/private checkerboarded area. I find a 175" giant whitey standing on the edge of the timber on public land. Problem is, I won't have time to walk the 20 minutes around to attempt to harvest him. I'm standing on state ground with a small strip of private field in between me and the buck. Can I legally shoot from where I'm standing. Obviously the neighboring property and house of local guide Dale Denney is going to hear the shot and be well aware that I've just harvest a local legend. All eyes will be on me...…....Legal?
And again, if these hypotheticals were answered in the affirmative and in similar situations another officer cited different individuals for infractions, the cited hunters would have a defense even if the first officer was in error in stating that the actions were legal.
Again, all hypothetical :chuckle:
I think both of those require a legal opinion to answer, hence an identifiable officer giving an answer is giving legal advice without being member of the bar.
Now that's funny right there if you think about it. They can't tell you if it's legal or not because that's giving a legal opinion and they aren't qualified, but they are qualified to investigate and arrest you based on their unqualified view of the law.
And that my friends is why the average person breaks three Federal laws per day and a slough of other laws.
https://mises.org/library/decriminalize-average-man
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Post by: Falcon on March 04, 2019, 07:36:01 AM
There's one who I believe posted just yesterday. But as someone already said, they like to stay anonymous.
Don’t blame em :chuckle: