Post by: bbarnes on March 11, 2019, 01:55:58 AM
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 04:51:24 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 11, 2019, 05:24:47 AM
Post by: bkaech on March 11, 2019, 06:09:56 AM
Post by: C-Money on March 11, 2019, 07:08:46 AM
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 07:24:15 AM
Sorry, I can't be on board. For the same reason I don't archery hunt, I like meat too much. I've been eating deer and elk since I was kid and have only bought beef and handful of times. I don't plan on changing that, I eat deer or elk 3-5 times a week year long. It would cost me a lot more money than my licenses to start buying beef or other meat from the store.Go out of state until they start fixing this state. Win win!
Post by: Mudman on March 11, 2019, 08:40:46 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 11, 2019, 08:56:18 AM
Post by: syoungs on March 11, 2019, 09:37:23 AM
At least buy licenses for bear, cougar, and bobcat. Then you can hunt predators year around. I don't know how anyone who's a hunter could totally give up hunting where they live.
This is what I've been doing for 3 years now. I hunt bear and coyotes in wa, but save the other big game for out of state hunts.
Post by: Iveexcaped3 on March 11, 2019, 09:42:18 AM
Kind of like giving a homeless man money, I hope he gets food with it but if not that's okay too, it's none of my business what he does with the money. Yes I can keep my money and say "oh he might go buy drugs with it", BUT what if he was to get food with it? Hes not getting to eat because I chose not to give him my money. Just my opinion
Post by: baker5150 on March 11, 2019, 09:49:25 AM
I don't think less license sales will do anything at all.
You want change, start a petition for a ballot measure making the counsel an elected position represented by districts.
Post by: bornhunter on March 11, 2019, 10:10:13 AM
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 10:22:09 AM
Aren't they already something like 40mil in the hole?I think it's about 31 Mil, but yes. That's why there will more than likely be a 15% increase in license fees next year. You can give them all the money, but you can't make them spend it wisely. You are correct on needing the WDFW counsel to be voted on by the people however and not the Governor.
I don't think less license sales will do anything at all.
You want change, start a petition for a ballot measure making the counsel an elected position represented by districts.
Post by: HikerHunter on March 11, 2019, 10:30:20 AM
Just saying but this might not be the best plan. If they see hunting numbers decline they have 0 reason to keep as much public land as they do and can chose to sell it to the highest bidder. You cant cry about them selling it because you weren't using it and doing nothing about trying to keep it public. I don't duck hunt but I still bought a stamp, it isn't expensive but anything helps. After I purchase my stamp I can only hope money goes to good and not wasted but I made that choice when I bought my stamp.
Kind of like giving a homeless man money, I hope he gets food with it but if not that's okay too, it's none of my business what he does with the money. Yes I can keep my money and say "oh he might go buy drugs with it", BUT what if he was to get food with it? Hes not getting to eat because I chose not to give him my money. Just my opinion
first time I've heard license money compared to giving money to homeless, haha nice comparison!
Post by: SuperX on March 11, 2019, 10:34:29 AM
Aren't they already something like 40mil in the hole?Sadly, I expect this elected counsel will end up being all anti-hunters or non-hunters as there are so many more of them than us. Once they're in charge, hunting will end for most.
I don't think less license sales will do anything at all.
You want change, start a petition for a ballot measure making the counsel an elected position represented by districts.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 11, 2019, 10:38:36 AM
Many people I have talked to in the last 4 Years,think the time has come.With the populations of Elk ,Deer ,Salmon ,and Steelhead on a massive decline WHY BUY the oppertunity.This states product is broken and with increased fees,and no conservation of these species ,when are we at the BREAKING POINT.We want to hear feedback from you ,and your opionions.Curently we are working on a public meeting date,and will be inviting WDFW and our state reps and business owners.Your voice will be heard loud and clear in this setting.The power of the pocketbook is all we have,as sportsman in this state.
Is the "WE" SFW?
Post by: Pegasus on March 11, 2019, 10:39:35 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2019, 10:50:59 AM
There are a lot of things that WDFW could do differently to increase game opportunities but not buying a hunting license is like cutting your own d*ck off because you are mad at your girlfriend.:yeah: there's no reason to have robust ungulate herds if nobody is hunting them and buying tags and licenses. Without monetary value there's no point in investing in their viability.
Post by: Jpmiller on March 11, 2019, 11:06:39 AM
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 11:14:38 AM
If you really wanted to make a difference wouldn't spending a few weekends in spring and summer doing some habitat improvement projects, hitting the woods hard to get a bear and heading out in Mass to shoot a cougar before the end of December get your better more immediate results without having to hope a government agency you don't have confidence in will do what you want?Lol, do you know the success rate on killing a cougar without hounds?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2019, 11:17:15 AM
do you know the success rate if you don't go out at all? :chuckle:If you really wanted to make a difference wouldn't spending a few weekends in spring and summer doing some habitat improvement projects, hitting the woods hard to get a bear and heading out in Mass to shoot a cougar before the end of December get your better more immediate results without having to hope a government agency you don't have confidence in will do what you want?Lol, do you know the success rate on killing a cougar without hounds?
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 11:18:25 AM
I've hunted in WA for 27 years, deer and elk. I've seen 1 cougar in my life.do you know the success rate if you don't go out at all? :chuckle:If you really wanted to make a difference wouldn't spending a few weekends in spring and summer doing some habitat improvement projects, hitting the woods hard to get a bear and heading out in Mass to shoot a cougar before the end of December get your better more immediate results without having to hope a government agency you don't have confidence in will do what you want?Lol, do you know the success rate on killing a cougar without hounds?
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 11:19:44 AM
There are a lot of things that WDFW could do differently to increase game opportunities but not buying a hunting license is like cutting your own d*ck off because you are mad at your girlfriend.I guess you can keep paying her to cheat on you! :bash:
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 11, 2019, 11:37:17 AM
Post by: Russ McDonald on March 11, 2019, 11:57:21 AM
On to what some of you have also been talking about. I tend to research prices in different states. Tell me where you cost savings are in out of state hunting. on average you are paying for $600 plus of non-resident license and tag. Some places you have to draw for. Also accounting for gas, food and lodging I would imagine your paying $1500 plus for a trip for one animal. Plus getting time off from work. I know you can't put a price on memories and being out in the woods but there is a limit for some. I would rather pay my resident tags here to have a chance to hunt multiple animals without having to take large amounts of time off.
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 11:58:00 AM
I considered relinquishing my Master Hunter card a few years ago in protest about hoof disease and other mismanaged departments and/or programs. The very good advice I received was to keep it and have more influence from the inside. I took it. I'm afraid that boycotting by not buying licenses shows that you no longer have any skin in the game. As hunters, we pay more than anyone else for our wildlife. That should carry more weight..I agree, it "should", but it's not working, and hasn't for some years now. You can't say it wasn't from poor hunter/fishermen #'s.
Post by: WSU on March 11, 2019, 12:00:57 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on March 11, 2019, 12:04:59 PM
For 1 reason or another, people will continue to buy licenses and only a few will stand firm and go without.... and WDFW will laugh all the way to the ATM machine. My :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: Jpmiller on March 11, 2019, 12:21:12 PM
If you really wanted to make a difference wouldn't spending a few weekends in spring and summer doing some habitat improvement projects, hitting the woods hard to get a bear and heading out in Mass to shoot a cougar before the end of December get your better more immediate results without having to hope a government agency you don't have confidence in will do what you want?Lol, do you know the success rate on killing a cougar without hounds?
Better than the odds wdfw will change the law on hound hunting.
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 12:23:06 PM
I boycotted buying ANY Weyerhauser access passes in hopes others would as well....and that Weyerhauser would change their policies. Not even close. The passes continue to sell out as fast as they're posted and I hear guys say there are more critters then ever before. The folks that stand their ground for what they believe only make things better for those who don't.I agree 100% and that's why sportsmen will lose in the end. At least my kids and grand kids will have pretty wolves to look at.
For 1 reason or another, people will continue to buy licenses and only a few will stand firm and go without.... and WDFW will laugh all the way to the ATM machine. My :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: Special T on March 11, 2019, 12:41:08 PM
Get involved with your favorite ORG, become their researcher, The person of contact with the department, the coalition representative for your group. The state likes big blocks of sportsmen and voters. Contact your local state reps and make them aware of the problems and issues your are facing. Does your Rep sit on the Natural resource committee? If so are you educating them on sportsmen issues? Lots of opportunities to make a difference even if your not superman. :twocents:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on March 11, 2019, 01:01:47 PM
I'm still at a loss as to how some feel that demonitizing a product will somehow help :dunno:Sitting here thinking more about this too. Economics 101 maybe :dunno: . So lets say we don't all buy license but we want the department to improve things. How are they going to do it with no money. If they have no money how are they not going to increase prices. They will just go to the state congress and ask for more money therefore increasing taxes that we pay. We still end up paying in the end. Me I am going to to buy my tags. Bring new hunters out hunting, blast some turkeys in the face, and be the voice for the non profit I volunteer for. Granted I work with the state on turkey hunting and we are working on some changes that will benefit hunters coming in the near future but I get to bend the ear of some others in the department on other issues besides turkey hunting.
Post by: C-Money on March 11, 2019, 01:02:11 PM
I know, I know, more for the next guy....
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2019, 01:27:57 PM
right. When we have an item that doesnt sell, we discontinue it. If it doesnt pay the bills we won't waste time and resources on it. Same goes for wildlife. Look what happens in Africa when hunter dollars dry up......I'm still at a loss as to how some feel that demonitizing a product will somehow help :dunno:Sitting here thinking more about this too. Economics 101 maybe :dunno: . So lets say we don't all buy license but we want the department to improve things. How are they going to do it with no money. If they have no money how are they not going to increase prices. They will just go to the state congress and ask for more money therefore increasing taxes that we pay. We still end up paying in the end. Me I am going to to buy my tags. Bring new hunters out hunting, blast some turkeys in the face, and be the voice for the non profit I volunteer for. Granted I work with the state on turkey hunting and we are working on some changes that will benefit hunters coming in the near future but I get to bend the ear of some others in the department on other issues besides turkey hunting.
Post by: Special T on March 11, 2019, 03:19:10 PM
I'm still at a loss as to how some feel that demonitizing a product will somehow help :dunno:Sitting here thinking more about this too. Economics 101 maybe :dunno: . So lets say we don't all buy license but we want the department to improve things. How are they going to do it with no money. If they have no money how are they not going to increase prices. They will just go to the state congress and ask for more money therefore increasing taxes that we pay. We still end up paying in the end. Me I am going to to buy my tags. Bring new hunters out hunting, blast some turkeys in the face, and be the voice for the non profit I volunteer for. Granted I work with the state on turkey hunting and we are working on some changes that will benefit hunters coming in the near future but I get to bend the ear of some others in the department on other issues besides turkey hunting.
The Problem is that Government NEVER responds like private industry does. If you add to the fact that the WDFW seems pulled in too many directions that they cannot or do not see sportsmen as their core focus. I believe you/we need to use both the carrot and the stick. Dont think the department isnt acutely aware of the $ shortfall. What do you think the department will do as sportsmen abandon the department? See other funding sources.
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/tax-on-high-end-outdoor-tents-clothing-more-would-help-fund-washington-wildlife-management/
Do you think sportsmen will be in the drivers seat when a huge chunk of their funding comes from the non consumptive crowd?
Nevermind the the nonsensical thought process of sportsmen coming to the departments aid to prevent the WDFW, DNR Parks merger where they begged sportsmen for help. They want the department fiefdom and the funds to run it. The financial pinch only helps if it is accompanied by clear and loud direction by sportsmen. That means you MUST get involved in an organization that speaks up for you. Perferably one that talks with the other stakeholders that share the resource or same lands so that a unified message can be told. Archers, Muzzle loaders, Modern, Trappers, Upland waterfowlers all need to be talking to each other. Sportsmen clubs and gun ranges need to band together.
Post by: 3dvapor on March 11, 2019, 03:44:21 PM
Most of my news personally comes from you guys keeping me informed. Im all in just need a good direction to help with the cause. I dont think either govenor wants the bad press of 500 people shutting down the boat launches over conservation issues.
Post by: Special T on March 11, 2019, 03:59:09 PM
We need to rally at the boat launches/ wdfw headquarters etc. Just like as if we were on strike. Most guys dont understand the problem or are aware of the changes. Theyre just working stiffs like me, same routine until the weekend.Which sportsmen group do you belong to? MDF? RMEF, SCI, WWA, WSAA, WSTA? GUN club? Sportsmen club? If you dont belong pick one, and if you do make contact with the person that keeps track advocates pn behalf of sportsmen.
Most of my news personally comes from you guys keeping me informed. Im all in just need a good direction to help with the cause. I dont think either govenor wants the bad press of 500 people shutting down the boat launches over conservation issues.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 04:00:24 PM
Do you know of such an organization? If so, I'm in. I know CCA isn't the answer for fishing however now that the kill nets are going back in the Columbia. No emails/phone calls to WDFW directors or State officials over the last 10+ years have done any good, so please tell me an organization that is making things better? I hunted out of state this last year, I saw more animals in 5 days hunting there than I have in the last 5 years hunting WA combined. That's how it used to be here! As long as the Governor appoints the WDFW directors there will be no change, no matter what organization you think is going to help us dig out of this political hole our wildlife is in.I'm still at a loss as to how some feel that demonitizing a product will somehow help :dunno:Sitting here thinking more about this too. Economics 101 maybe :dunno: . So lets say we don't all buy license but we want the department to improve things. How are they going to do it with no money. If they have no money how are they not going to increase prices. They will just go to the state congress and ask for more money therefore increasing taxes that we pay. We still end up paying in the end. Me I am going to to buy my tags. Bring new hunters out hunting, blast some turkeys in the face, and be the voice for the non profit I volunteer for. Granted I work with the state on turkey hunting and we are working on some changes that will benefit hunters coming in the near future but I get to bend the ear of some others in the department on other issues besides turkey hunting.
The Problem is that Government NEVER responds like private industry does. If you add to the fact that the WDFW seems pulled in too many directions that they cannot or do not see sportsmen as their core focus. I believe you/we need to use both the carrot and the stick. Dont think the department isnt acutely aware of the $ shortfall. What do you think the department will do as sportsmen abandon the department? See other funding sources.
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/tax-on-high-end-outdoor-tents-clothing-more-would-help-fund-washington-wildlife-management/
Do you think sportsmen will be in the drivers seat when a huge chunk of their funding comes from the non consumptive crowd?
Nevermind the the nonsensical thought process of sportsmen coming to the departments aid to prevent the WDFW, DNR Parks merger where they begged sportsmen for help. They want the department fiefdom and the funds to run it. The financial pinch only helps if it is accompanied by clear and loud direction by sportsmen. That means you MUST get involved in an organization that speaks up for you. Perferably one that talks with the other stakeholders that share the resource or same lands so that a unified message can be told. Archers, Muzzle loaders, Modern, Trappers, Upland waterfowlers all need to be talking to each other. Sportsmen clubs and gun ranges need to band together.
Post by: Special T on March 11, 2019, 04:14:21 PM
I suppose it depends on what you want. If you want to join a national well oiled machine that is world renown I'd say SCI. @Bushmaster could probably speak to the benefits of a National Organization.Do you know of such an organization? If so, I'm in. I know CCA isn't the answer for fishing however now that the kill nets are going back in the Columbia. No emails/phone calls to WDFW directors or State officials over the last 10+ years have done any good, so please tell me an organization that is making things better? I hunted out of state this last year, I saw more animals in 5 days hunting there than I have in the last 5 years hunting WA combined. That's how it used to be here! As long as the Governor appoints the WDFW directors there will be no change, no matter what organization you think is going to help us dig out of this political hole our wildlife is in.I'm still at a loss as to how some feel that demonitizing a product will somehow help :dunno:Sitting here thinking more about this too. Economics 101 maybe :dunno: . So lets say we don't all buy license but we want the department to improve things. How are they going to do it with no money. If they have no money how are they not going to increase prices. They will just go to the state congress and ask for more money therefore increasing taxes that we pay. We still end up paying in the end. Me I am going to to buy my tags. Bring new hunters out hunting, blast some turkeys in the face, and be the voice for the non profit I volunteer for. Granted I work with the state on turkey hunting and we are working on some changes that will benefit hunters coming in the near future but I get to bend the ear of some others in the department on other issues besides turkey hunting.
The Problem is that Government NEVER responds like private industry does. If you add to the fact that the WDFW seems pulled in too many directions that they cannot or do not see sportsmen as their core focus. I believe you/we need to use both the carrot and the stick. Dont think the department isnt acutely aware of the $ shortfall. What do you think the department will do as sportsmen abandon the department? See other funding sources.
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/tax-on-high-end-outdoor-tents-clothing-more-would-help-fund-washington-wildlife-management/
Do you think sportsmen will be in the drivers seat when a huge chunk of their funding comes from the non consumptive crowd?
Nevermind the the nonsensical thought process of sportsmen coming to the departments aid to prevent the WDFW, DNR Parks merger where they begged sportsmen for help. They want the department fiefdom and the funds to run it. The financial pinch only helps if it is accompanied by clear and loud direction by sportsmen. That means you MUST get involved in an organization that speaks up for you. Perferably one that talks with the other stakeholders that share the resource or same lands so that a unified message can be told. Archers, Muzzle loaders, Modern, Trappers, Upland waterfowlers all need to be talking to each other. Sportsmen clubs and gun ranges need to band together.
If you only want to support a Washington Specific organization I would say Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation. There are many sportsmen's clubs that are organizational members, as well as other sportsmen groups. I know the Washington Waterfowlers Association, the Trapping Assciation, all the SCI chapters in the state belong. You can help by joining as an individual or you can tell the organization you do belong to to add their name to the list of sportsmen groups.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: fowl smacker on March 11, 2019, 04:33:28 PM
I belong to several groups as of right now. Like I said, none of them, nor any I know of are stopping the landslide our deer and elk populations are in.I suppose it depends on what you want. If you want to join a national well oiled machine that is world renown I'd say SCI. @Bushmaster could probably speak to the benefits of a National Organization.Do you know of such an organization? If so, I'm in. I know CCA isn't the answer for fishing however now that the kill nets are going back in the Columbia. No emails/phone calls to WDFW directors or State officials over the last 10+ years have done any good, so please tell me an organization that is making things better? I hunted out of state this last year, I saw more animals in 5 days hunting there than I have in the last 5 years hunting WA combined. That's how it used to be here! As long as the Governor appoints the WDFW directors there will be no change, no matter what organization you think is going to help us dig out of this political hole our wildlife is in.I'm still at a loss as to how some feel that demonitizing a product will somehow help :dunno:Sitting here thinking more about this too. Economics 101 maybe :dunno: . So lets say we don't all buy license but we want the department to improve things. How are they going to do it with no money. If they have no money how are they not going to increase prices. They will just go to the state congress and ask for more money therefore increasing taxes that we pay. We still end up paying in the end. Me I am going to to buy my tags. Bring new hunters out hunting, blast some turkeys in the face, and be the voice for the non profit I volunteer for. Granted I work with the state on turkey hunting and we are working on some changes that will benefit hunters coming in the near future but I get to bend the ear of some others in the department on other issues besides turkey hunting.
The Problem is that Government NEVER responds like private industry does. If you add to the fact that the WDFW seems pulled in too many directions that they cannot or do not see sportsmen as their core focus. I believe you/we need to use both the carrot and the stick. Dont think the department isnt acutely aware of the $ shortfall. What do you think the department will do as sportsmen abandon the department? See other funding sources.
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/tax-on-high-end-outdoor-tents-clothing-more-would-help-fund-washington-wildlife-management/
Do you think sportsmen will be in the drivers seat when a huge chunk of their funding comes from the non consumptive crowd?
Nevermind the the nonsensical thought process of sportsmen coming to the departments aid to prevent the WDFW, DNR Parks merger where they begged sportsmen for help. They want the department fiefdom and the funds to run it. The financial pinch only helps if it is accompanied by clear and loud direction by sportsmen. That means you MUST get involved in an organization that speaks up for you. Perferably one that talks with the other stakeholders that share the resource or same lands so that a unified message can be told. Archers, Muzzle loaders, Modern, Trappers, Upland waterfowlers all need to be talking to each other. Sportsmen clubs and gun ranges need to band together.
If you only want to support a Washington Specific organization I would say Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation. There are many sportsmen's clubs that are organizational members, as well as other sportsmen groups. I know the Washington Waterfowlers Association, the Trapping Assciation, all the SCI chapters in the state belong. You can help by joining as an individual or you can tell the organization you do belong to to add their name to the list of sportsmen groups.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: konradcountry on March 13, 2019, 01:00:31 PM
If you really wanted to make a difference wouldn't spending a few weekends in spring and summer doing some habitat improvement projects, hitting the woods hard to get a bear and heading out in Mass to shoot a cougar before the end of December get your better more immediate results without having to hope a government agency you don't have confidence in will do what you want?
Gonna agree here. Even if we rattled them with a loss of revenue that doesn't mean they will make any productive changes. They might just raise fees and then blame a lack of new hunters which is what other states have done.
I think focusing on bears and habitat improvement makes sense. The typical hunter doesn't care about bears and only buys a deer or elk license. If we could organize a bear hunt in August that covers a lot of ground that would make a bigger difference. There are also too many forests in Wa that are covered in salal or blackberries. Deer and elk need more protein sources.
Post by: Special T on March 13, 2019, 01:08:10 PM
If you really wanted to make a difference wouldn't spending a few weekends in spring and summer doing some habitat improvement projects, hitting the woods hard to get a bear and heading out in Mass to shoot a cougar before the end of December get your better more immediate results without having to hope a government agency you don't have confidence in will do what you want?
Gonna agree here. Even if we rattled them with a loss of revenue that doesn't mean they will make any productive changes. They might just raise fees and then blame a lack of new hunters which is what other states have done.
I think focusing on bears and habitat improvement makes sense. The typical hunter doesn't care about bears and only buys a deer or elk license. If we could organize a bear hunt in August that covers a lot of ground that would make a bigger difference. There are also too many forests in Wa that are covered in salal or blackberries. Deer and elk need more protein sources.
I am all for habitat improvement, but it is the feel good non political way to help. Since the department is reactionary it is necessary to press them in areas where they are failing. Most folks realize they are failing in predator control. To my knowledge very few habitat groups like RMEF MDF DU etc will do so because they are habitat focused.
Lewis and Clark noted the lack of game in the Rockies despite having all the habitat in the world. Predator management is necessary in order to have hunt-able populations of Ungulates. :twocents:
Post by: Iveexcaped3 on March 14, 2019, 02:37:57 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 14, 2019, 03:48:25 PM
I think it's about 31 Mil, but yes. That's why there will more than likely be a 15% increase in license fees next year. You can give them all the money, but you can't make them spend it wisely. You are correct on needing the WDFW counsel to be voted on by the people however and not the Governor.
Do you really think the voters who outlawed hound hunting, and leg hold and conibear traps will elect council members who care what hunters think?
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 14, 2019, 03:52:19 PM
We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.
I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution. I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...
Post by: fowl smacker on March 14, 2019, 05:11:51 PM
Nope, I don't, I also don't see a pro hunting Republican governor getting elected in WA in the near future either which is why our hunting will not turn around and start improving, which is why I'm done in this state. Give money to whatever organization you like but nothing is going to change until the political affiliation changes.
I think it's about 31 Mil, but yes. That's why there will more than likely be a 15% increase in license fees next year. You can give them all the money, but you can't make them spend it wisely. You are correct on needing the WDFW counsel to be voted on by the people however and not the Governor.
Do you really think the voters who outlawed hound hunting, and leg hold and conibear traps will elect council members who care what hunters think?
Post by: konradcountry on March 30, 2019, 06:43:33 AM
I am all for habitat improvement, but it is the feel good non political way to help. Since the department is reactionary it is necessary to press them in areas where they are failing. Most folks realize they are failing in predator control. To my knowledge very few habitat groups like RMEF MDF DU etc will do so because they are habitat focused.
Lewis and Clark noted the lack of game in the Rockies despite having all the habitat in the world. Predator management is necessary in order to have hunt-able populations of Ungulates. :twocents:
Habitat improvement is a practical and workable solution while anything political in this state is a gamble and most likely a waste of time. The habitat is awful in areas where the state is logging. There are very few protein sources in these areas as the state only seems to care about logging revenue.
But let's say that 10% of hunters (very optimistic) went on strike. Why couldn't the state just raise fees on the basis that fewer people are hunting? Even if you got them to debate the subject the California/Seattle voters would show up and protest any new programs that target fuzzy wuzzy predators.
If this was Idaho or Wyoming I would be all for political solutions. But in this state we are better off handling things ourselves. In fact a predator-focused strike could backfire. The California/Seattle voters could put their own bill on the ballot as a response and set us back even further.
Post by: Alan K on March 30, 2019, 09:32:54 AM
Habitat improvement is a practical and workable solution while anything political in this state is a gamble and most likely a waste of time. The habitat is awful in areas where the state is logging. There are very few protein sources in these areas as the state only seems to care about logging revenue.
I don't want to derail this thread, but you're kidding right? Working forests are where the feed is. I mean, USFS ground must be chock full of game now that they quit logging right? :rolleyes: Private forest lands sell out access permits in a matter of minutes in a lot of cases. Lots of idiots out there wasting their money just to hunt where there is no habitat or feed eh? Give me a break...
On topic... What is evidenced by access permits and people doing their hunting out of state is that hunters will pay for a quality experience and a solid chance at taking an animal. I wish WDFW would open their eyes to that fact. There would be no issues with increasing license fees if the product improved. They could charge $200 for a resident deer tag pretty easy if hunting were like Montana or Idaho. Heck, we pay $125 or whatever for the opportunity to hunt the 3 weapon types, which doesn't give us better hunting quality, just more days of pounding the hills in search of dwindling numbers of game. They could be flush with cash if they managed for it, but god forbid they have a pricing/bag limit/season structure that would help keep predator numbers in check... Frustrating!
Post by: Little Dave on March 30, 2019, 10:31:23 AM
Many people I have talked to in the last 4 Years,think the time has come.With the populations of Elk ,Deer ,Salmon ,and Steelhead on a massive decline WHY BUY the oppertunity. This states product is broken and with increased fees,and no conservation of these species ,when are we at the BREAKING POINT.We want to hear feedback from you ,and your opionions. Curently we are working on a public meeting date,and will be inviting WDFW and our state reps and business owners.Your voice will be heard loud and clear in this setting.The power of the pocketbook is all we have,as sportsman in this state.
I see what you intend - but it is the wrong approach. The state sees fewer licenses sold and from this assumes what. Your guess is that they need to improve fishing and hunting. No. What they see is that either there are yet fewer hunting/fishing or that the license fees should be increased.
If you wish to communicate with the state you need to communicate with the state. I guarantee that if these folks were receiving hand written letters from every one of us once weekly, phone calls, and such that kind of barrage would make much more of a difference than being absent - passively assuming they understand the stunt.
Post by: buckfvr on March 30, 2019, 10:33:38 AM
Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..
We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.
I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution. I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...
The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks. Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever. wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it. Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow. WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight. Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system. Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.
Post by: bigmacc on March 31, 2019, 07:41:41 PM
Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..
We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.
I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution. I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...
The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks. Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever. wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it. Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow. WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight. Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system. Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.
Like I have said many times, we need a "Game Department" ...
Post by: idaho guy on March 31, 2019, 08:01:54 PM
I am all for habitat improvement, but it is the feel good non political way to help. Since the department is reactionary it is necessary to press them in areas where they are failing. Most folks realize they are failing in predator control. To my knowledge very few habitat groups like RMEF MDF DU etc will do so because they are habitat focused.
Lewis and Clark noted the lack of game in the Rockies despite having all the habitat in the world. Predator management is necessary in order to have hunt-able populations of Ungulates. :twocents:
Habitat improvement is a practical and workable solution while anything political in this state is a gamble and most likely a waste of time. The habitat is awful in areas where the state is logging. There are very few protein sources in these areas as the state only seems to care about logging revenue.
But let's say that 10% of hunters (very optimistic) went on strike. Why couldn't the state just raise fees on the basis that fewer people are hunting? Even if you got them to debate the subject the California/Seattle voters would show up and protest any new programs that target fuzzy wuzzy predators.
If this was Idaho or Wyoming I would be all for political solutions. But in this state we are better off handling things ourselves. In fact a predator-focused strike could backfire. The California/Seattle voters could put their own bill on the ballot as a response and set us back even further.
Responsible Logging is one of the best ways to improve habitat! I wouldn’t say Washington cares about logging revenue that much or they would have managed the forest better before it all burned up. I know loggers who get their elk every year at their logging site before work. deer and elk flock to active logging sites. The real benefit comes when they are done and you can actually get some feed growing
Post by: Special T on April 01, 2019, 09:26:42 AM
Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..
We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.
I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution. I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...
The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks. Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever. wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it. Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow. WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight. Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system. Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.
Like I have said many times, we need a "Game Department" ...
I agree Logging is a very important part of habitat management. How does the WDFW influence logging?
Post by: konradcountry on April 01, 2019, 04:31:07 PM
I don't want to derail this thread, but you're kidding right? Working forests are where the feed is. I mean, USFS ground must be chock full of game now that they quit logging right? :rolleyes: Private forest lands sell out access permits in a matter of minutes in a lot of cases. Lots of idiots out there wasting their money just to hunt where there is no habitat or feed eh? Give me a break...
Oh I think you misunderstood me there. I'm not saying that logging is bad for the deer. What I am saying is that the state too often just logs and then doesn't plant any crops for the deer. So there are huge areas that could have a lot more protein if the state planted deer specific crops after logging. The crops that come in naturally aren't as nearly high in protein. I've seen them plant clover in a few recreational areas but logged areas they seem to just leave.
On topic... What is evidenced by access permits and people doing their hunting out of state is that hunters will pay for a quality experience and a solid chance at taking an animal. I wish WDFW would open their eyes to that fact. There would be no issues with increasing license fees if the product improved. They could charge $200 for a resident deer tag pretty easy if hunting were like Montana or Idaho. Heck, we pay $125 or whatever for the opportunity to hunt the 3 weapon types, which doesn't give us better hunting quality, just more days of pounding the hills in search of dwindling numbers of game. They could be flush with cash if they managed for it, but god forbid they have a pricing/bag limit/season structure that would help keep predator numbers in check... Frustrating!
They are definitely doing something wrong. Everyone I have talked to believes the black tail numbers have dropped significantly but the state keeps telling us that everything is fine. I'm not buying it at all. Let us see success rates on private vs public.
Post by: mtn muley madness on April 01, 2019, 05:36:01 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 03, 2019, 07:31:15 PM
You'll have a republican governor in WA before you see WDFW dissolve into separate agencies again.Like I have said many times, we need a "Game Department" ...Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..
We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.
I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution. I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...
The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks. Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever. wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it. Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow. WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight. Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system. Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.
Post by: MtnMuley on April 03, 2019, 07:49:33 PM
Post by: bbarnes on April 04, 2019, 08:50:04 AM
Post by: konradcountry on April 05, 2019, 12:04:57 PM
Responsible Logging is one of the best ways to improve habitat! I wouldn’t say Washington cares about logging revenue that much or they would have managed the forest better before it all burned up. I know loggers who get their elk every year at their logging site before work. deer and elk flock to active logging sites. The real benefit comes when they are done and you can actually get some feed growing
Logging is normally good for deer but they need to do more than just clear and leave junk behind. That is what I was saying.
Or worse they leave junk and spray everything that isn't a sapling.
If you drive around capitol forest you can see that they only care about logging revenue. There are areas that would be good grasslands but the state left too much crap on the ground and only salal comes in. I always see bush pickers without a discover pass but never an officer. Hunting season comes around and you get a convoy of vehicle hunters to hunt down any remaining deer. It's a joke and not managed at all.
Post by: idaho guy on April 05, 2019, 02:14:54 PM
Responsible Logging is one of the best ways to improve habitat! I wouldn’t say Washington cares about logging revenue that much or they would have managed the forest better before it all burned up. I know loggers who get their elk every year at their logging site before work. deer and elk flock to active logging sites. The real benefit comes when they are done and you can actually get some feed growing
Logging is normally good for deer but they need to do more than just clear and leave junk behind. That is what I was saying.
Or worse they leave junk and spray everything that isn't a sapling.
If you drive around capitol forest you can see that they only care about logging revenue. There are areas that would be good grasslands but the state left too much crap on the ground and only salal comes in. I always see bush pickers without a discover pass but never an officer. Hunting season comes around and you get a convoy of vehicle hunters to hunt down any remaining deer. It's a joke and not managed at all.
:tup: makes sense! context is everything!
Post by: woodswalker on April 05, 2019, 02:24:03 PM
Quote
Responsible Logging is one of the best ways to improve habitat! I wouldn’t say Washington cares about logging revenue that much or they would have managed the forest better before it all burned up. I know loggers who get their elk every year at their logging site before work. deer and elk flock to active logging sites. The real benefit comes when they are done and you can actually get some feed growing
That was how i did it for decades... We had a rack on the back of the crummy that carried supplies in the spring, summer and winter...and game in the fall. Had a Winchester 94 in .32 WS in the log truck or the cab of the yarder.
see footer comment about Game dept.