Sportsman Strike

[fishngamereaper]

Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..

We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.

I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution.  I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...

[fowl smacker]

I think it's about 31 Mil, but yes.  That's why there will more than likely be a 15% increase in license fees next year.  You can give them all the money, but you can't make them spend it wisely.  You are correct on needing the WDFW counsel to be voted on by the people however and not the Governor.

Do you really think the voters who outlawed hound hunting, and leg hold and conibear traps will elect council members who care what hunters think?

Nope, I don't,  I also don't see a pro hunting Republican governor getting elected in WA in the near future either which is why our hunting will not turn around and start improving, which is why I'm done in this state.  Give money to whatever organization you like but nothing is going to change until the political affiliation changes.

[konradcountry]

I am all for habitat improvement, but it is the feel good non political way to help. Since the department is reactionary it is necessary to press them in areas where they are failing. Most folks realize they are failing in predator control. To  my knowledge very few habitat groups like RMEF MDF DU etc will do so because they are habitat focused.

Lewis and Clark noted the lack of game in the Rockies despite having all the habitat in the world. Predator management is necessary in order to have hunt-able populations of Ungulates. 

Habitat improvement is a practical and workable solution while anything political in this state is a gamble and most likely a waste of time. The habitat is awful in areas where the state is logging. There are very few protein sources in these areas as the state only seems to care about logging revenue.

But let's say that 10% of hunters (very optimistic) went on strike. Why couldn't the state just raise fees on the basis that fewer people are hunting? Even if you got them to debate the subject the California/Seattle voters would show up and protest any new programs that target fuzzy wuzzy predators.

If this was Idaho or Wyoming I would be all for political solutions. But in this state we are better off handling things ourselves. In fact a predator-focused strike could backfire. The California/Seattle voters could put their own bill on the ballot as a response and set us back even further.

[Alan K]

Habitat improvement is a practical and workable solution while anything political in this state is a gamble and most likely a waste of time. The habitat is awful in areas where the state is logging. There are very few protein sources in these areas as the state only seems to care about logging revenue.

I don't want to derail this thread, but you're kidding right? Working forests are where the feed is. I mean, USFS ground must be chock full of game now that they quit logging right?  Private forest lands sell out access permits in a matter of minutes in a lot of cases. Lots of idiots out there wasting their money just to hunt where there is no habitat or feed eh? Give me a break...

On topic... What is evidenced by access permits and people doing their hunting out of state is that hunters will pay for a quality experience and a solid chance at taking an animal. I wish WDFW would open their eyes to that fact. There would be no issues with increasing license fees if the product improved. They could charge $200 for a resident deer tag pretty easy if hunting were like Montana or Idaho. Heck, we pay $125 or whatever for the opportunity to hunt the 3 weapon types, which doesn't give us better hunting quality, just more days of pounding the hills in search of dwindling numbers of game. They could be flush with cash if they managed for it, but god forbid they have a pricing/bag limit/season structure that would help keep predator numbers in check... Frustrating!

[Little Dave]

Many people I have talked to in the last 4 Years,think the time has come.With the populations of Elk ,Deer ,Salmon ,and Steelhead on a massive decline WHY BUY the oppertunity. This states product is broken and with increased fees,and no conservation of these species ,when are we at the BREAKING POINT.We want to hear feedback from you ,and your opionions. Curently we are working on a public meeting date,and will be inviting WDFW and our state reps and business owners.Your voice will be heard loud and clear in this setting.The power of the pocketbook is all we have,as sportsman in this state.

I see what you intend - but it is the wrong approach.  The state sees fewer licenses sold and from this assumes what.  Your guess is that they need to improve fishing and hunting.  No.  What they see is that either there are yet fewer hunting/fishing or that the license fees should be increased.

If you wish to communicate with the state you need to communicate with the state.  I guarantee that if these folks were receiving hand written letters from every one of us once weekly, phone calls, and such that kind of barrage would make much more of a difference than being absent - passively assuming they understand the stunt.

[buckfvr]

Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..

We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.

I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution.  I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...

The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks.  Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever.  wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it.  Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow.  WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight.  Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system.  Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.

[bigmacc]

Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..

We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.

I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution.  I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...

The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks.  Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever.  wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it.  Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow.  WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight.  Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system.  Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.

Like I have said many times, we need a "Game Department" ...

[idaho guy]

I am all for habitat improvement, but it is the feel good non political way to help. Since the department is reactionary it is necessary to press them in areas where they are failing. Most folks realize they are failing in predator control. To  my knowledge very few habitat groups like RMEF MDF DU etc will do so because they are habitat focused.

Lewis and Clark noted the lack of game in the Rockies despite having all the habitat in the world. Predator management is necessary in order to have hunt-able populations of Ungulates. 

Habitat improvement is a practical and workable solution while anything political in this state is a gamble and most likely a waste of time. The habitat is awful in areas where the state is logging. There are very few protein sources in these areas as the state only seems to care about logging revenue.

But let's say that 10% of hunters (very optimistic) went on strike. Why couldn't the state just raise fees on the basis that fewer people are hunting? Even if you got them to debate the subject the California/Seattle voters would show up and protest any new programs that target fuzzy wuzzy predators.

If this was Idaho or Wyoming I would be all for political solutions. But in this state we are better off handling things ourselves. In fact a predator-focused strike could backfire. The California/Seattle voters could put their own bill on the ballot as a response and set us back even further.

Responsible Logging is one of the best ways to improve habitat! I wouldn’t say Washington cares about logging revenue that much or they would have managed the forest better before it all burned up. I know loggers who get their elk every year at their logging site before work. deer and elk flock to active logging sites. The real benefit comes when they are done and you can actually get some feed growing

[Special T]

Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..

We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.

I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution.  I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...

The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks.  Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever.  wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it.  Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow.  WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight.  Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system.  Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.

Like I have said many times, we need a "Game Department" ...

I agree Logging is a very important part of habitat management. How does the WDFW influence logging?

[konradcountry]

I don't want to derail this thread, but you're kidding right? Working forests are where the feed is. I mean, USFS ground must be chock full of game now that they quit logging right?  Private forest lands sell out access permits in a matter of minutes in a lot of cases. Lots of idiots out there wasting their money just to hunt where there is no habitat or feed eh? Give me a break...

Oh I think you misunderstood me there. I'm not saying that logging is bad for the deer. What I am saying is that the state too often just logs and then doesn't plant any crops for the deer. So there are huge areas that could have a lot more protein if the state planted deer specific crops after logging. The crops that come in naturally aren't as nearly high in protein. I've seen them plant clover in a few recreational areas but logged areas they seem to just leave.

On topic... What is evidenced by access permits and people doing their hunting out of state is that hunters will pay for a quality experience and a solid chance at taking an animal. I wish WDFW would open their eyes to that fact. There would be no issues with increasing license fees if the product improved. They could charge $200 for a resident deer tag pretty easy if hunting were like Montana or Idaho. Heck, we pay $125 or whatever for the opportunity to hunt the 3 weapon types, which doesn't give us better hunting quality, just more days of pounding the hills in search of dwindling numbers of game. They could be flush with cash if they managed for it, but god forbid they have a pricing/bag limit/season structure that would help keep predator numbers in check... Frustrating!

They are definitely doing something wrong. Everyone I have talked to believes the black tail numbers have dropped significantly but the state keeps telling us that everything is fine. I'm not buying it at all. Let us see success rates on private vs public.

[mtn muley madness]

States include private land, mostly un-huntable animals in their surveys as a means to justify what they are doing and make it appear as though they haven't screwed up royally and all is well in the animal kingdom. Washington/Montana/Idaho/Wyoming deer and elk have been migrating out of their normal forever ranges as a means of survival. People=safety from predators and survival. Just follow the history of the Yellowstone elk the last 15 years. And the fact that blacktail populations nearly doubled in cities and lowlands over a 10 year period after they ended hound hunting seasons for predators. They also tell us that bear and cougar populations are doing great (and now wolf). Mule deer are so screwed. I'm bitter. They should put all of the seattle areas 'safe injection sites' in muley country..... 

[bigtex]

Ive thought about this off and on for years. I finally came to the conclusion that it wont matter what we do. Taking our ball home because we don't like the way the game is played means the state no longer has to worry about sponsoring the game..

We cut revenue they cut enforcement...They could even out $$$ by simply laying off a dozen wardens. Maybe cut a rehab project here and there...stop improvements to access sites..etc.

I feel if we did this we would become part of the problem instead of trying to stay in the game and be the solution.  I actually think the state wants people to stop hunting. All the more reason to let the predators and wolves grow in numbers so they can claim to be managing big game at sustainable numbers...

The game wardens ( not what they actually are ) are state police and will continue to be even if hunting tanks.  Revenue problems stem from wdfw being like all other forms of government in that they spend more than they get so the next budget is larger, and that also will continue for ever.  wdfw spends so much money on technology, i.e. tricking out the guys like special forces and commandos, vehicles, weapons you name it.  Helicopters, boats, airplanes, they spend like theres no end to the money flow.  WDFW has failed us and needs to be washed out and replaced with a system full of checks and balances from civilian oversight.  Accountability, transparency, both absolutely missing in the current system.  Take fish and game away from the governor and elect regional wildlife directors and we will be on our way to a fix.

Like I have said many times, we need a "Game Department" ...

You'll have a republican governor in WA before you see WDFW dissolve into separate agencies again.

[MtnMuley]

You're right.

[bbarnes]

How many hunters and fisherman and woman,on this thread are engaged ? I personaly have worn out myself,and a new ford truck driving back and forth to Olympia.ALL of my efforts and ideas seem to fall on deaf ears,and there's no interaction from the commission.Also the members who have posted about habitat, are spot on there is very little.Then you add the effects of carpet bombing,and killing all the spring and fall green up.i will be posting today about a upcoming meeting, and I hope all of you will atend.

[konradcountry]

Responsible Logging is one of the best ways to improve habitat! I wouldn’t say Washington cares about logging revenue that much or they would have managed the forest better before it all burned up. I know loggers who get their elk every year at their logging site before work. deer and elk flock to active logging sites. The real benefit comes when they are done and you can actually get some feed growing

Logging is normally good for deer but they need to do more than just clear and leave junk behind. That is what I was saying.

Or worse they leave junk and spray everything that isn't a sapling.

If you drive around capitol forest you can see that they only care about logging revenue. There are areas that would be good grasslands but the state left too much crap on the ground and only salal comes in. I always see bush pickers without a discover pass but never an officer. Hunting season comes around and you get a convoy of vehicle hunters to hunt down any remaining deer. It's a joke and not managed at all.