Post by: Cervus on April 18, 2019, 11:40:40 AM
Post by: HoytHunter24 on April 18, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
Post by: hothand21 on April 18, 2019, 11:54:26 AM
Post by: Cervus on April 18, 2019, 12:01:58 PM
On the other hand, if you are already a member, there might be some value in the WA information (I haven't really combed through it yet).
Post by: mp.hunter on April 18, 2019, 12:02:44 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on April 18, 2019, 12:05:21 PM
Post by: hothand21 on April 18, 2019, 12:09:10 PM
Thanks for the feedback above!
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 18, 2019, 12:09:49 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 18, 2019, 12:13:50 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 18, 2019, 12:17:44 PM
Post by: Gunfire on April 18, 2019, 12:26:39 PM
And elk is far worse.
I hope these numbers need some tuning.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 18, 2019, 01:13:55 PM
There was an earlier thread on here that noted how the total applicants in all the hunts/categories was showing huge increases on WDFW website...but then WDFW corrected it...well, appears GoHunt fellas are using that old, incorrect data.
What this means...the odds are all wrong...instead of .0005% chance of drawing many of the premium tags, it should really be .0006%. :chuckle:
Post by: OltHunter on April 18, 2019, 01:32:40 PM
Quick glance it looks like they are using the wrong data for 2018.
There was an earlier thread on here that noted how the total applicants in all the hunts/categories was showing huge increases on WDFW website...but then WDFW corrected it...well, appears GoHunt fellas are using that old, incorrect data.
What this means...the odds are all wrong...instead of .0005% chance of drawing many of the premium tags, it should really be .0006%. :chuckle:
This is confirmed. I definitely wouldn't pay for it for WA odds until are fixed/updated.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on April 18, 2019, 01:34:19 PM
Quick glance it looks like they are using the wrong data for 2018.
There was an earlier thread on here that noted how the total applicants in all the hunts/categories was showing huge increases on WDFW website...but then WDFW corrected it...well, appears GoHunt fellas are using that old, incorrect data.
What this means...the odds are all wrong...instead of .0005% chance of drawing many of the premium tags, it should really be .0006%. :chuckle:
This is confirmed. I definitely wouldn't pay for it for WA odds until are fixed/updated.
:yeah:
$149 a year. :yike:
Post by: Stein on April 18, 2019, 02:01:41 PM
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Post by: Stein on April 18, 2019, 02:02:57 PM
Quick glance it looks like they are using the wrong data for 2018.
There was an earlier thread on here that noted how the total applicants in all the hunts/categories was showing huge increases on WDFW website...but then WDFW corrected it...well, appears GoHunt fellas are using that old, incorrect data.
What this means...the odds are all wrong...instead of .0005% chance of drawing many of the premium tags, it should really be .0006%. :chuckle:
Did you shoot them an email? They are usually quick to fix problems.
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Post by: sagerat on April 18, 2019, 02:12:30 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2019, 02:23:10 PM
The other thing to remember is these are all based on last years tag allocations. Some units may have far fewer tags available this year.
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:yeah:
It's all downhill from here.
Post by: OltHunter on April 18, 2019, 02:38:06 PM
Based on last year tag allocations and for some reason they don't project all point options, so if someone with 16 points didn't apply, there won't be any odds.
There are lots of $50 gift card promos floating around if someone it at all interested. They have free 30 day trails running throughout the year, but if only for WA, not worth it IMHO as other's had said.
If you are trying to plan out multiple state's strategies over a couple of year timelines, then the value starts to creep in. Along with slim chance of winning a monthly giveaway.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 18, 2019, 04:11:53 PM
I did. They are aware and working it...but sounds like they are experiencing the level of service and accountability so many of us are familiar with when it comes to WDFW :yike:Quick glance it looks like they are using the wrong data for 2018.
There was an earlier thread on here that noted how the total applicants in all the hunts/categories was showing huge increases on WDFW website...but then WDFW corrected it...well, appears GoHunt fellas are using that old, incorrect data.
What this means...the odds are all wrong...instead of .0005% chance of drawing many of the premium tags, it should really be .0006%. :chuckle:
Did you shoot them an email? They are usually quick to fix problems.
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Post by: Caseyd on April 18, 2019, 05:16:20 PM
I did. They are aware and working it...but sounds like they are experiencing the level of service and accountability so many of us are familiar with when it comes to WDFW :yike:Quick glance it looks like they are using the wrong data for 2018.
There was an earlier thread on here that noted how the total applicants in all the hunts/categories was showing huge increases on WDFW website...but then WDFW corrected it...well, appears GoHunt fellas are using that old, incorrect data.
What this means...the odds are all wrong...instead of .0005% chance of drawing many of the premium tags, it should really be .0006%. :chuckle:
Did you shoot them an email? They are usually quick to fix problems.
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Even worse I’m sure. Will result in lost revenues
Post by: Stein on April 18, 2019, 05:43:29 PM
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Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2019, 05:51:00 PM
The way it works is you pay GoHunt $150 and then save at least that by not applying in WA. You come out even and then have the subscription to find better options elsewhere.
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BUT BUT BUT! WHAT ABOUT MY INVESTMENT!!
:chuckle: :sry:
Post by: Twispriver on April 18, 2019, 06:26:16 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 18, 2019, 07:23:08 PM
If you have max points you have a 26% chance at a cowiche archery bull tag.Hmmmmmm......
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 18, 2019, 07:25:25 PM
Because Washington is completely random, without any preference for how many points you have, I wonder if it is even possible to predict odds for drawing. If last year 10 hunters with 20 points put in for Unit X and 5 drew permits that would be posted as 50% draw odds. This year if 10 hunters put in maybe none of them get drawn - or all of them get drawn. If there was a ten-year average maybe that would show a trend but random is random.1. It’s dang near never that good at the top...ever
2. You’re thinking about calculating the percentage of a point group that drew, not the odds of one individual with a given number of points drawing
Post by: Stein on April 18, 2019, 08:32:50 PM
2018 - .12%
2017 - .18%
2016 - .22%
Thus, your odds of drawing have roughly gone down by half in three years even though you have more points and they are squared. This is what many have said, your odds get worse every year even though we think they get better because we have more points.
If you had 24 points and point creep magically stops, you only need to apply for 46 more years to have a 50-50 chance of drawing the tag any time in those 46 additional years. Given point creep, it may be 50-60 years to have even odds.
Other fun stuff to be found: tags given in the elk unit I want in the last three years are 15, 10 and 5 last year. Nice trend. My odds there are .14% unless the tags are reduced again, which they are proposing.
OK, rant off, I'm done. I was thinking about sticking in with quality elk and dropping everything else (deer, other elk, moose, sheep, goat and bear). The odds makes it easy to drop elk and be done with the system. So, the odds for you guys drawing will bump up this year as my points won't be polluting your buckets.
Post by: buglebrush on April 18, 2019, 09:03:41 PM
So, I looked up my sheep draw, odds with 24 points is 0.12%. Here is where the points creep comes in. The odds of drawing if you have 24 points has been going down every year.
2018 - .12%
2017 - .18%
2016 - .22%
Thus, your odds of drawing have roughly gone down by half in three years even though you have more points and they are squared. This is what many have said, your odds get worse every year even though we think they get better because we have more points.
If you had 24 points and point creep magically stops, you only need to apply for 46 more years to have a 50-50 chance of drawing the tag any time in those 46 additional years. Given point creep, it may be 50-60 years to have even odds.
Other fun stuff to be found: tags given in the elk unit I want in the last three years are 15, 10 and 5 last year. Nice trend. My odds there are .14% unless the tags are reduced again, which they are proposing.
OK, rant off, I'm done. I was thinking about sticking in with quality elk and dropping everything else (deer, other elk, moose, sheep, goat and bear). The odds makes it easy to drop elk and be done with the system. So, the odds for you guys drawing will bump up this year as my points won't be polluting your buckets.
WDFW'S draw is completely aimed at revenue, not Hunter opportunity. I've been done with WA for a while. I'll spend my money applying in other Western States.
Post by: Ellensburg on April 18, 2019, 11:10:14 PM
Come on.... We all know the average bull there is 360+.
I listened to Rinella's podcast about it.
Post by: Ridgerunner on April 19, 2019, 08:39:59 AM
Post by: cougforester on April 19, 2019, 08:48:38 AM
Are the odds only for quality buck and bull or the buck and bull categories as well?
Looks like just Quality.
Post by: Stein on April 19, 2019, 08:49:54 AM
I did notice some guy with 45 points applied for a quality bull tag and didn't draw. Odds were only 25%. :o
Post by: eburgtrapper on April 19, 2019, 09:44:11 PM
Mountain View 300+ trophy potential 😂
Post by: dreamingbig on April 21, 2019, 03:00:43 AM
So, I looked up my sheep draw, odds with 24 points is 0.12%. Here is where the points creep comes in. The odds of drawing if you have 24 points has been going down every year.Yep with bonus points being squared you can’t keep up. Add in tag numbers going down and it is nothing more than a money maker:
2018 - .12%
2017 - .18%
2016 - .22%
Thus, your odds of drawing have roughly gone down by half in three years even though you have more points and they are squared. This is what many have said, your odds get worse every year even though we think they get better because we have more points.
If you had 24 points and point creep magically stops, you only need to apply for 46 more years to have a 50-50 chance of drawing the tag any time in those 46 additional years. Given point creep, it may be 50-60 years to have even odds.
Other fun stuff to be found: tags given in the elk unit I want in the last three years are 15, 10 and 5 last year. Nice trend. My odds there are .14% unless the tags are reduced again, which they are proposing.
OK, rant off, I'm done. I was thinking about sticking in with quality elk and dropping everything else (deer, other elk, moose, sheep, goat and bear). The odds makes it easy to drop elk and be done with the system. So, the odds for you guys drawing will bump up this year as my points won't be polluting your buckets.
I would vote for throwing all bonus points in the trash tomorrow and go 100% random.
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Post by: dreamingbig on April 21, 2019, 03:02:52 AM
I appreciated the opportunity to laugh though. 😀
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Post by: Igor on April 21, 2019, 06:29:28 AM
It's hard to tell, they are all mixed together.
I did notice some guy with 45 points applied for a quality bull tag and didn't draw. Odds were only 25%. :o
How is it possible to have 45 quality bull points?
Post by: cem3434 on April 21, 2019, 06:31:31 AM
Post by: Stein on April 21, 2019, 06:54:22 AM
Yep with bonus points being squared you can’t keep up. Add in tag numbers going down and it is nothing more than a money maker:
I would vote for throwing all bonus points in the trash tomorrow and go 100% random.
The funny part is the guys that would fight that are the very ones that would benefit most - those with high points. It's one of the best scams around. There are probably a good percentage that realize they won't draw an OIL, but I don't think there are many that understand where the quality tags are and how much worse it gets every year. A big chunk of the good draws are seeing insane cuts in the tags and with nothing being done to recover those herds, I'm not sure how they will ever go back up.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on April 21, 2019, 07:08:26 AM
Post by: Stein on April 21, 2019, 07:19:14 AM
Hopefully the few states without points manage to stay that way. I would think enough smart people can see the train wreck that points have become and fend off the temptation. Once you go points, there is no way to go back as people are generally not good with math.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on April 21, 2019, 07:24:05 AM
I have noticed a trend in educating and encouraging hunters not to fall for the points system. Hopefully this gains even more momentum and traction moving forward. The funny thing is it seems the past few years its not the hunters that have pushed the points, ( my guess is enough have been educated over the last couple decades) but the game commisions and state legislations in these states looking to make their jobs easier.
Post by: buglebrush on April 21, 2019, 07:37:08 AM
What would truly up our odds is making you pick a category to apply in rather than applying for everything. But we know WDFW will never do that because they don't give a care about hunters only their money.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 21, 2019, 08:32:39 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 21, 2019, 05:25:51 PM
Even if the odds stayed at 1% for 100 years...your odds of drawing once in 100 years are still much less than 100%
Post by: dreamingbig on April 21, 2019, 05:28:44 PM
100% agree on abolishing points. Anyone who argues with this simply cannot comprehend math.Yup. Or simply wont allow themselves to believe the facts.
What would truly up our odds is making you pick a category to apply in rather than applying for everything. But we know WDFW will never do that because they don't give a care about hunters only their money.
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Post by: idaho guy on April 21, 2019, 07:45:16 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 21, 2019, 08:26:36 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 21, 2019, 08:31:40 PM
If by waste of money you mean drawing tags and going hunting and having sweet adventures then yes, they are a waste of money :chuckle:
Shhhhhhh!!! Let them think all out of stare hunts are a waste! :chuckle:
Post by: idaho guy on April 21, 2019, 08:50:21 PM
If by waste of money you mean drawing tags and going hunting and having sweet adventures then yes, they are a waste of money :chuckle:
I hope you’re right it’s the drawing the tag part I am worried about :chuckle: I can usually be guaranteed 3 deer tags with good buck potential between Idaho and Montana not to mention elk,bear,and lion season so I will be hunting and having sweet adventures regardless :tup: I am also going to really dedicate some time to wolf hunting and trapping this year so not really needing to fill up my calendar with more hunts. But I have fomo fear of missing out :chuckle:so I will probably be in the game for a while since I made the leap. I still feel like I might be wasting money guess I will find out. Your yearly postseason write ups give me hope. I appreciate you posting your hunts cool stuff
Post by: Stein on April 22, 2019, 08:10:48 AM
The great part about GoHunt is that you can put your effort and funds where they are best utilized and skip the rest of the stuff. It's sooo easy to collect points and think you are getting somewhere, kind of like saving for retirement that never comes. Most of the smart guys I hear never plan to get more than about 2-3 points, find decent tags that you can draw and go hunting.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 22, 2019, 08:34:01 AM
yeah a guy can definitely fill a season with some OTC tags but there is a ton of additional opportunities out there if a guy is willing to toss a few bucks around and play the game. Screw the high point units. In this modern age of out of state hunting mania, a guy needs to focus on 0-5pt units. Obviously not all states can be "scheduled" and point creep (preference point systems) can get you but man there is endless opportunities out there for amazing hunts. In the grand scheme of things, a few licenses and apps is a small expenditure for what you can get out of it if a guy designs a realistic application portfolioIf by waste of money you mean drawing tags and going hunting and having sweet adventures then yes, they are a waste of money :chuckle:
I hope you’re right it’s the drawing the tag part I am worried about :chuckle: I can usually be guaranteed 3 deer tags with good buck potential between Idaho and Montana not to mention elk,bear,and lion season so I will be hunting and having sweet adventures regardless :tup: I am also going to really dedicate some time to wolf hunting and trapping this year so not really needing to fill up my calendar with more hunts. But I have fomo fear of missing out :chuckle:so I will probably be in the game for a while since I made the leap. I still feel like I might be wasting money guess I will find out. Your yearly postseason write ups give me hope. I appreciate you posting your hunts cool stuff
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 22, 2019, 11:06:03 AM
Post by: wooltie on April 23, 2019, 12:01:46 PM
I can see hunters pushing back because you essentially buy points until you actually apply those points to a drawing and have an actual "chance" of drawing a tag, but that is the end result anyway with the current system.
Post by: Johnny Doe on April 24, 2019, 07:22:21 AM
What if WA just limited the quantity of drawings you could apply for each year, but still allowed you to apply for points only? Would that approach work to increase the draw odds because fewer hunters could actually apply, presumably?
I can see hunters pushing back because you essentially buy points until you actually apply those points to a drawing and have an actual "chance" of drawing a tag, but that is the end result anyway with the current system.
Something like Idaho does? If you apply for deer and/or elk you can't apply for the Big 3 (moose, sheep, & goat). :dunno:
Post by: Stein on April 24, 2019, 08:05:53 AM
Assuming there is a problem, the only answer is to take away opportunity. The easiest solution in my mind is to make two simple, yet painful changes.
1. You can only submit one big game special permit application per year. Points go away and it is a random draw. The bad news is that your one special permit application is going to cost a bit, probably $50-100, maybe a bit more to keep the revenue neutral.
2. Quality deer and elk are added to the OIL list. Further, once you draw an OIL tag you cannot submit for any other big game special permit. Non OIL permits can be drawn as frequently as you can draw them.
If pitchforks come out, as a concession you could keep your points, but they drop in half (rounding down) every year you don't draw. They phase out such that in about 5 years nobody has points for anything.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 28, 2019, 12:06:46 PM
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Post by: KFhunter on April 28, 2019, 12:31:04 PM
I still wasnt able to submit elk but everything esle went throug fine, goat,sheep, moose wasnt bad but elk is a mess on gohunt
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Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 28, 2019, 05:21:12 PM
FYI GoHunt has admitted they got bad data from WDFW for 2018 application data. Go figure.Whilst they’re at it they might as well do it with this year’s tag numbers.
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Post by: Stein on April 28, 2019, 06:40:30 PM
FYI GoHunt has admitted they got bad data from WDFW for 2018 application data. Go figure.Whilst they’re at it they might as well do it with this year’s tag numbers.
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It's pretty easy, take the odds they have and divide that by four.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 28, 2019, 07:30:25 PM
Post by: trophyelk6x6 on April 30, 2019, 07:58:19 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 30, 2019, 08:15:14 AM
Post by: trophyelk6x6 on April 30, 2019, 08:57:27 AM
Post by: elkchaser54 on April 30, 2019, 04:33:47 PM
Post by: Stein on April 30, 2019, 05:55:28 PM
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Post by: Hot Lunch on April 30, 2019, 09:26:46 PM
I just looked at quality deer in two units close to my house. Rifle, 13 points .46% and .74% chance. :o
Same here. I didn't realize how poor the draw odds were.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on April 30, 2019, 10:21:27 PM
On a side not I think WDFW hid or eliminated the ‘points used by permit category’ report...either way I can’t find em.
Second side note I do have the drawing odds for peaches rifle 2017/18/19...they’ve changed...just a little bit.
Post by: OltHunter on April 30, 2019, 10:44:08 PM
On a side not I think WDFW hid or eliminated the ‘points used by permit category’ report...either way I can’t find em.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/hunting/permits/2018_quality_elk_drawing_results_by_hunt_number.pdf
Expand the special permit category and scroll down to the bottom. They were put up last week some time Thursday or Friday.
Post by: Ellensburg on May 01, 2019, 08:29:32 PM
We need to go to preference or something. We have THE WORST draw system in the country.
How about
1/2 go to top point holders who are in each draw
1/2 go random like idaho / new mexico?
Post by: X-Force on May 01, 2019, 08:34:43 PM
Post by: sagerat on May 01, 2019, 08:46:57 PM
We don’t have enough permits to support a preference system.
:yeah: I vote for no points at all, straight up random please...
Post by: sagerat on May 01, 2019, 08:48:45 PM
We don’t have enough permits to support a preference system.
:yeah: I vote for no points at all, straight up random please...
And I have over 20 points in most categories...
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 01, 2019, 09:28:20 PM
I have 15 points in most categories and my odds are only going to get worse and worse each year.With 15 in most categories you would essentially cut your odds in half by going 1/2 tags to highest point holders. Too many ahead of you. :twocents:
We need to go to preference or something. We have THE WORST draw system in the country.
How about
1/2 go to top point holders who are in each draw
1/2 go random like idaho / new mexico?
Post by: huntnnw on May 01, 2019, 10:44:48 PM
We don’t have enough permits to support a preference system.
ding ding we have a winner. exaclty! there is almost no categories for buck and bull tags where we have enough tags to clear out point holders. It doesnt work when you cant cycle thru applicants. There will be a day that people will have 30 to 40 points for a elk tag etc
Post by: Stein on May 02, 2019, 06:00:23 AM
Post by: B4noon on May 02, 2019, 06:49:52 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 02, 2019, 07:10:04 AM
There is good news coming just to early to release but they are currently working on developing a system where you can cash in points in exchange for prizes much like frequent flyer miles. Proposed rewards are 1 chinook to feed orcas =20 pts, free registration on the national bumble bee atlas= 10pts and providing refreshments for management in the NRB building on popcorn friday (which is actually a happening thing) =5pts:IBCOOL: I get 4 salmon :IBCOOL:
Post by: milldozer on May 02, 2019, 07:10:39 AM
Post by: Stein on May 02, 2019, 07:17:04 AM
I've seen it thrown around before, but I like the idea of only being able to apply for one special permit or one OIL per year. Raise the cost of the applications for each species so no revenue is lost. Also, not to be morbid, but eventually points will be eliminated from the pools. People can't live forever..
Yeah, only problem is that I believe the general hunting population would come unglued. I think there are a) many people that don't understand the current situation and wouldn't accept what they perceive to be a net loss (big price increase for less tags) and b) people that do understand, but prefer long odds at a bunch of things over better odds at one thing.
WDFW doesn't have much motivation to change unless they get a hit to the license revenue and think they need to change in order to right the ship. When the number of applications and applicants goes up every year, it basically sends a message to them that we think it's a good program.
It's not a Ponzi scheme, it needs another name, but basically there is this innacurate belief that the points they are selling have value. The closest thing is relating it to a crypto currency but you can't actually buy anything with the currency. They get $13 for something that doesn't cost them, doesn't have any value but we think it's awesome until we are no longer able to hunt and realize the 47 points we have accumulated are worthless.
Post by: X-Force on May 02, 2019, 08:25:14 AM
I have 15 points in most categories and my odds are only going to get worse and worse each year.
We need to go to preference or something. We have THE WORST draw system in the country.
How about
1/2 go to top point holders who are in each draw
1/2 go random like idaho / new mexico?
What are your thoughts behind going to a preference system?
You have 15 points in most categories so in OILs you have hundreds of people between you and “top” points, I don’t believe you will ever be in top points in your lifetime even if top points got 100% of the permits.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 02, 2019, 08:29:53 AM
yeah but to blame wdfw for people's ignorance on draw odds or even how the draws actually work isn't exactly fair. At the end of the day people need to be a smart consumer. WDFW sucks on many levels misunderstanding of how our system works is the fault of the individualI've seen it thrown around before, but I like the idea of only being able to apply for one special permit or one OIL per year. Raise the cost of the applications for each species so no revenue is lost. Also, not to be morbid, but eventually points will be eliminated from the pools. People can't live forever..
Yeah, only problem is that I believe the general hunting population would come unglued. I think there are a) many people that don't understand the current situation and wouldn't accept what they perceive to be a net loss (big price increase for less tags) and b) people that do understand, but prefer long odds at a bunch of things over better odds at one thing.
WDFW doesn't have much motivation to change unless they get a hit to the license revenue and think they need to change in order to right the ship. When the number of applications and applicants goes up every year, it basically sends a message to them that we think it's a good program.
It's not a Ponzi scheme, it needs another name, but basically there is this innacurate belief that the points they are selling have value. The closest thing is relating it to a crypto currency but you can't actually buy anything with the currency. They get $13 for something that doesn't cost them, doesn't have any value but we think it's awesome until we are no longer able to hunt and realize the 47 points we have accumulated are worthless.
Post by: Stein on May 02, 2019, 08:45:10 AM
I'm not really blaming anyone, just saying it's broken and doubt that we have the willpower to change it. Many would argue it isn't broken and think that paying $13 for a 0.3% chance at a tag is reasonable. That's a valid opinion if that is what they believe.
Post by: Bob33 on May 02, 2019, 08:58:39 AM
- Odds for the best permits, even with maximum points are very low.
- Odds with 20 points are better than odds with 1 point or 19 points.
- Odds for non-applicants are even lower.
Post by: buglebrush on May 02, 2019, 09:02:58 AM
Post by: idaho guy on May 02, 2019, 10:35:25 AM
It really is simple. Limit people to one application. Your must choose only one. It would totally work.
:yeah: I have no skin in this game and never will but that would solve the problem. Too many people probably believe a bunch of chances with less than 1% odds are better than 1 choice with above average odds that would be the fight. I think it will be harder for hunters who have actually hit the lottery to accept that 1 choice is better. Unless they are really willing to look at the facts and do the math.
Post by: Stein on May 02, 2019, 10:53:51 AM
It really is simple. Limit people to one application. Your must choose only one. It would totally work.
:yeah: I have no skin in this game and never will but that would solve the problem. Too many people probably believe a bunch of chances with less than 1% odds are better than 1 choice with above average odds that would be the fight. I think it will be harder for hunters who have actually hit the lottery to accept that 1 choice is better. Unless they are really willing to look at the facts and do the math.
This is absolutely true. I would also add that their opinion that the current system is better is just as valid as my opinion that it is horrible.
Post by: jamesfromseattle on May 02, 2019, 11:04:44 AM
It really is simple. Limit people to one application. Your must choose only one. It would totally work.
I’m in agreement but would also be in favor of one choice for one application. That being said, I’m on the new side of the points game so I’m biased. Would probably feel different if I had a ton of points in every category.
Post by: kselkhunter on May 02, 2019, 11:06:14 AM
Oregon does random draws for their OIL tags with not points, and all other tags are 75% based on points, 25% random. And no split categories (except there is an antlerless deer similar to WA's second deer). People there still complain just as much as WA.
Getting top tags in UT, AZ, etc. still take decades. Point creep continues to extend. There really is no "right answer". Population of humans is increasing. Habitat is decreasing.
That being said I just don't see how WA doesn't reach an inflection point in the coming years where they have to seriously consider going to random draw for at least some of the tags.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 02, 2019, 11:17:52 AM
All draw systems have flaws. Long time residents of a state argue their "investment" of points is more important. Others prefer the random draw process of ID or NM being more fair to improve new hunter and newer resident recruitment.nicely summarized :tup:
Oregon does random draws for their OIL tags with not points, and all other tags are 75% based on points, 25% random. And no split categories (except there is an antlerless deer similar to WA's second deer). People there still complain just as much as WA.
Getting top tags in UT, AZ, etc. still take decades. Point creep continues to extend. There really is no "right answer". Population of humans is increasing. Habitat is decreasing.
That being said I just don't see how WA doesn't reach an inflection point in the coming years where they have to seriously consider going to random draw for at least some of the tags.
Post by: Stein on May 02, 2019, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on May 02, 2019, 11:33:16 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 02, 2019, 11:42:23 AM
Post by: mp.hunter on May 02, 2019, 11:44:39 AM
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