Post by: gramps on April 21, 2019, 05:22:34 PM
Read more here: https://www.tri-cityherald.com/sports/outdoors/article229511779.html#storylink=cpy
Post by: gramps on April 22, 2019, 05:54:37 PM
Post by: Nwgunner on April 22, 2019, 07:40:53 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 22, 2019, 08:39:40 PM
Post by: Nwgunner on April 22, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
Very nice, another meeting far away from the problem.......typical !Well considering there are now 4 confirmed packs in the Blues we are a lot closer to the problem than what some might think. Certainly a lot closer than others that reside in Arizona. It is my understanding that this meeting is to address wolf populations in southeast and southcentral Washington specifically.
And please don't interpret this as a lack of compassion for what those in the north east are experiencing.
Post by: Nwgunner on April 22, 2019, 11:05:13 PM
Post by: mfswallace on April 23, 2019, 06:29:30 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 08:41:55 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
Very nice, another meeting far away from the problem.......typical !
Almost ground zero...getting there anyway. The Blues are no longer far away from the problem.
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
There is a WDFW Wolf Advisory Group meeting 4/24-4/25 in Tumwater.
Post by: KopperBuck on April 23, 2019, 10:51:53 AM
This meeting is being hosted by the Audubon society. What is to be expected by this crowd? Pro wolf, anti hunting? Middle ground?
It really shouldn't make a difference, but I'd lay the farm down on pro.
Post by: Special T on April 23, 2019, 11:36:46 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on April 23, 2019, 11:43:27 AM
I think it will be a very different presentation than hunters get. It should be very informative if you/we could keep our mouth shut or ask questions that do not give away your position. :twocents:100% agree. It does zero good to be confrontational out of the gate. Especially with these folks. I was hoping to make the drive - think it could be an informational and worthwhile to see it from a different perspective.
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Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 11:57:37 AM
I think it will be a very different presentation than hunters get. It should be very informative if you/we could keep our mouth shut or ask questions that do not give away your position. :twocents:
Whenever I think about this sort of thing, it reminds me of this Rinella video. It's a good example of how these conversations should go. Logical and civil.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=STEVEN+RINELLA+LIBRARY+TALK&&view=detail&mid=1C7CA8E867F595C75E461C7CA8E867F595C75E46&&FORM=VRDGAR
Post by: Special T on April 23, 2019, 12:08:41 PM
If I were going to try and make a pitch that predator/wolf # control was important to the general population, the opposing views understanding is necessary. This event IMO is an opportunity to LISTEN and think critically about how the opinions are formed.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 23, 2019, 12:11:35 PM
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:I think it will be a very different presentation than hunters get. It should be very informative if you/we could keep our mouth shut or ask questions that do not give away your position. :twocents:
Whenever I think about this sort of thing, it reminds me of this Rinella video. It's a good example of how these conversations should go. Logical and civil.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=STEVEN+RINELLA+LIBRARY+TALK&&view=detail&mid=1C7CA8E867F595C75E461C7CA8E867F595C75E46&&FORM=VRDGAR
Post by: Rainier10 on April 23, 2019, 12:12:43 PM
The reason why I point this out is because if you were to remain silent/unknown what and how they talked about wolves would show you what issues about wolves are important. It is really hard to understand some one that holds a drastically different view of an issue...And :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
If I were going to try and make a pitch that predator/wolf # control was important to the general population, the opposing views understanding is necessary. This event IMO is an opportunity to LISTEN and think critically about how the opinions are formed.
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 12:15:48 PM
The reason why I point this out is because if you were to remain silent/unknown what and how they talked about wolves would show you what issues about wolves are important. It is really hard to understand some one that holds a drastically different view of an issue...
If I were going to try and make a pitch that predator/wolf # control was important to the general population, the opposing views understanding is necessary. This event IMO is an opportunity to LISTEN and think critically about how the opinions are formed.
Agree wholeheartedly. Understanding this and living by it is one of the issues that our community will always struggle with if you ask me. We get way too fired up(guilty!!) way too quick and don't slow down and LISTEN!!
Post by: Special T on April 23, 2019, 12:24:51 PM
The reason why I point this out is because if you were to remain silent/unknown what and how they talked about wolves would show you what issues about wolves are important. It is really hard to understand some one that holds a drastically different view of an issue...
If I were going to try and make a pitch that predator/wolf # control was important to the general population, the opposing views understanding is necessary. This event IMO is an opportunity to LISTEN and think critically about how the opinions are formed.
Agree wholeheartedly. Understanding this and living by it is one of the issues that our community will always struggle with if you ask me. We get way too fired up(guilty!!) way too quick and don't slow down and LISTEN!!
Most of us think we are better at changing others minds than we actually are... I know i suffer from it.
Post by: gramps on April 23, 2019, 01:05:32 PM
There was a presentation about wolves bt a WDFW biologist in Walla Walla last winter. The meeting time was changed and since I don't do facebook, I was late. There must have been at least 100 people there and the speaker basically explained the wolf plan with a slide show.
The questions at the end were not the type one would expect from hunters and sportsmen....impossible to tell of course. A couple questions about the likelihood of an attack and ways to protect pets. Pretty general in nature and not from someone who knew much or anything about predators.
There was a livestock producer there that spoke up about his losses from wolves and cougar and asked about more effective predator control and expressed his displeasure with the current situation.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 23, 2019, 01:09:52 PM
For sure. I think the hang up is that we know why we think the way do so well and try to explain it so the other side will sway. What we really need to do is understand how they came to their position, understanding that thought process is the way to show the other side.The reason why I point this out is because if you were to remain silent/unknown what and how they talked about wolves would show you what issues about wolves are important. It is really hard to understand some one that holds a drastically different view of an issue...
If I were going to try and make a pitch that predator/wolf # control was important to the general population, the opposing views understanding is necessary. This event IMO is an opportunity to LISTEN and think critically about how the opinions are formed.
Agree wholeheartedly. Understanding this and living by it is one of the issues that our community will always struggle with if you ask me. We get way too fired up(guilty!!) way too quick and don't slow down and LISTEN!!
Most of us think we are better at changing others minds than we actually are... I know i suffer from it.
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2019, 01:11:21 PM
I agree with the comments above and I will be listening from the back of the room.
There was a presentation about wolves bt a WDFW biologist in Walla Walla last winter. The meeting time was changed and since I don't do facebook, I was late. There must have been at least 100 people there and the speaker basically explained the wolf plan with a slide show.
The questions at the end were not the type one would expect from hunters and sportsmen....impossible to tell of course. A couple questions about the likelihood of an attack and ways to protect pets. Pretty general in nature and not from someone who knew much or anything about predators.
There was a livestock producer there that spoke up about his losses from wolves and cougar and asked about more effective predator control and expressed his displeasure with the current situation.
More than likely, the part in bold happened because there were hardly any hunters there. That's the other problem. We talk a lot, but most(me included) don't put our money where our mouths are when the time comes to rise up.
Post by: usmc74 on April 24, 2019, 09:52:47 AM
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVW_5uVwoVi0%26fbclid%3DIwAR3Oa2sshyosDgCsBHuUxPIUDQBiwdvsBGzD2Uu9HxPHzab_RAfRVkc8rEA&h=AT0B0jKrIkBTDrHurSppzdwbhmja9teyo1M0pYoGlxSw1KJJXtgzk_qfVb4MpN-yl2jsFs4AS5f90qKm9quDzui1Jq1_-tbqWidIfk7PAiJ_Wu75hS0rsAJMhWXFFTT93Q (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVW_5uVwoVi0%26fbclid%3DIwAR3Oa2sshyosDgCsBHuUxPIUDQBiwdvsBGzD2Uu9HxPHzab_RAfRVkc8rEA&h=AT0B0jKrIkBTDrHurSppzdwbhmja9teyo1M0pYoGlxSw1KJJXtgzk_qfVb4MpN-yl2jsFs4AS5f90qKm9quDzui1Jq1_-tbqWidIfk7PAiJ_Wu75hS0rsAJMhWXFFTT93Q)
Post by: gramps on April 24, 2019, 01:48:36 PM
Afew comments: There was about 75 people there. Visitors were invited to state why they came. About 7 did, a few said they were hunters, one man from Ferry Co., one member or officer from the SCI club. I think there were other visitors who didn't identify them selves.
Good to have met one other forum member ....anyone else who was there, please comment.
Maybe more later...Oh....some of the chatter I over heard from what I assume to be the Audubon folks during a break was that they don't know or understand much at all about wildlife issues.....no disrespect indended....just not wildlife folks.
Thanks usmc74 for finding the video from another presentation.
Post by: Nwgunner on April 24, 2019, 06:05:55 PM
I was much more interested going into this meeting what the attitude towards hunters was and what there stance on wolves would be. My observations by just gauging the room and listening to comments and questions are as follows.
I did not get the impression that they were either Pro or Anti wolf. It was an "animal lives matter" and anti hunter sentiment that i felt.
I was surprized at the lack of in depth knowlege on the wolf issue and what is happening due to there unchecked epansion. They basically had no idea of the damage that that is being done to ungulates, property, and livelihoods. Maybe this is because they dont have any skin in the game, but I believe that if you strongly support one position you should understand all outcomes, good and bad.
Most outlandish comment of the night was one member suggesting releasing wolves on Hanford to control elk populations.
I would not want Bens job no matter how much I love the outdoors and wildlife. That guy does not have a single ally in the room and this was a very respectful environment.
Finally, there were were other hunters/outdoorsmen in attendance. Everyone was very courteous and respectful. This is the exact group of people that have the opinion that hunters are rednecks that kill without remorse. I believe that many can be convinced that we are not bad through civil discourse which is exactly what happened last night.
Post by: usmc74 on April 24, 2019, 07:16:36 PM
Post by: gramps on April 24, 2019, 07:26:32 PM
Post by: usmc74 on April 24, 2019, 07:30:44 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2019, 09:43:58 PM
I agree with gramps that Bens presentation was essentially just going through the PowerPoint that is posted. There was nothing new to be learned except for one item that I personally found interesting. Ben basically said that there is no doubt in his mind that there are wolves in the southern cascades, either passing through or established, just not enough evidence to officially declare a pack.
I was much more interested going into this meeting what the attitude towards hunters was and what there stance on wolves would be. My observations by just gauging the room and listening to comments and questions are as follows.
I did not get the impression that they were either Pro or Anti wolf. It was an "animal lives matter" and anti hunter sentiment that i felt.
I was surprized at the lack of in depth knowlege on the wolf issue and what is happening due to there unchecked epansion. They basically had no idea of the damage that that is being done to ungulates, property, and livelihoods. Maybe this is because they dont have any skin in the game, but I believe that if you strongly support one position you should understand all outcomes, good and bad.
Most outlandish comment of the night was one member suggesting releasing wolves on Hanford to control elk populations.
I would not want Bens job no matter how much I love the outdoors and wildlife. That guy does not have a single ally in the room and this was a very respectful environment.
Finally, there were were other hunters/outdoorsmen in attendance. Everyone was very courteous and respectful. This is the exact group of people that have the opinion that hunters are rednecks that kill without remorse. I believe that many can be convinced that we are not bad through civil discourse which is exactly what happened last night.
I believe the wolves in the southern cascades stems from the wolf poop study that was done. I believe the details of that were posted on the forum here.
Post by: Pegasus on April 24, 2019, 09:47:53 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 27, 2019, 01:02:07 PM
Very nice, another meeting far away from the problem.......typical !Well considering there are now 4 confirmed packs in the Blues we are a lot closer to the problem than what some might think. Certainly a lot closer than others that reside in Arizona. It is my understanding that this meeting is to address wolf populations in southeast and southcentral Washington specifically.
And please don't interpret this as a lack of compassion for what those in the north east are experiencing.
I don't take it for a lack of compassion.. It's just because I lived in Washington State for 62 years and I know how these groups operate. Lies and are very deceitful.