Post by: Oh Mah on May 24, 2019, 07:59:11 PM
Poll : Do you get better groups when your at close to the store bought fps of a round or are you getting tighter groups going faster?By faster i mean 200 fps and up and of the same weight.If yes please explain your set up. Thanks.
Post by: jrebel on May 24, 2019, 08:21:14 PM
Post by: wadu1 on May 24, 2019, 08:26:49 PM
I can't answer this question because of all the variables. What I will say.....I find that to much speed is a bad thing. Amost all of my rifles shoot better with less than max loads. When I start reaching max loads, I find accuracy goes out the window. I am an accuracy guy and could care less about speed.....but I also shoot heavy bullets for caliber.:yeah:
I'm with jrebel 100% even with my 22-250 slower speeds are best 38gr H380 and any bullet. :twocents:
Post by: hogslayer on May 24, 2019, 08:32:48 PM
Post by: 92xj on May 24, 2019, 08:37:24 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on May 24, 2019, 08:41:05 PM
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
Post by: jasnt on May 24, 2019, 09:00:44 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on May 24, 2019, 09:05:54 PM
Just to keep in line with others jasnt how much faster are you throwing those heavies?
Post by: 92xj on May 24, 2019, 09:07:54 PM
Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Post by: Oh Mah on May 24, 2019, 09:08:21 PM
Post by: jasnt on May 24, 2019, 09:12:36 PM
You are def. the exception jasnt. No doubt.which ones? 243 with 115’s or 338 and 300’s
Just to keep in line with others jasnt how much faster are you throwing those heavies?
Should say 3055 with 115’s, 2715 with 300’s
Post by: jrebel on May 24, 2019, 09:30:20 PM
Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X? I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag. It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel.
I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 24, 2019, 09:44:01 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on May 24, 2019, 10:23:39 PM
Post by: jrebel on May 24, 2019, 10:31:07 PM
I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?
I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try. They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: jasnt on May 24, 2019, 10:35:20 PM
if you think hammers are expensive don’t ever look at Warner flatline’s.I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?
I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try. They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: 92xj on May 25, 2019, 06:46:58 AM
Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X? I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag. It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel.
I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???
Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?
Post by: 92xj on May 25, 2019, 06:47:31 AM
I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?
I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try. They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Were these tested in your 300wm?
Post by: CLARKTAR on May 25, 2019, 07:27:23 AM
If no one else takes you up I would be interested in testing these. I just finished a build and want to see what I can do with heavier 30cals in a 1:9 twist 30-06.I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?
I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try. They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: jrebel on May 25, 2019, 08:38:59 AM
Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X? I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag. It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel.
I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???
Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?
Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel
I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?
I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try. They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Were these tested in your 300wm?
Yes same gun that is shooting the 212 ELD X.
Post by: 92xj on May 25, 2019, 09:17:04 AM
Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X? I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag. It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel.
I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???
Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?
Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel
thats what I was thinking. Steve puts up the recommended minimum twist rates on each options available on the website. I thought I would try and cheat the system a little and step up in grain like you did, it didn't work. I ended up talking to steve and decided that if I actually listen to him and follow his recommendations, the bullets actually work really well. You should give the 196gr hammers a try if you want long range stuff. If you want something to shoot under 500 yards, give the 199 sledge hammers a try. Both of those are shooting amazing for me. I just did a 400 yard group with the 196s and the group measured 2.1", good enough for me and my setup.
Post by: jrebel on May 25, 2019, 09:29:23 AM
Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X? I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag. It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel.
I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???
Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?
Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel
thats what I was thinking. Steve puts up the recommended minimum twist rates on each options available on the website. I thought I would try and cheat the system a little and step up in grain like you did, it didn't work. I ended up talking to steve and decided that if I actually listen to him and follow his recommendations, the bullets actually work really well. You should give the 196gr hammers a try if you want long range stuff. If you want something to shoot under 500 yards, give the 199 sledge hammers a try. Both of those are shooting amazing for me. I just did a 400 yard group with the 196s and the group measured 2.1", good enough for me and my setup.
Yeah, I have no doubt if I use the right bullet they will shoot. They appear very well made and get great reviews. I was trying to cheat the system a bit to push heavies......which is really kind of dumb. A deer could care less if they are shot with a 196 or 214 grainer.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Hilltop123 on May 25, 2019, 09:53:59 AM
Your right, the deer won't notice the difference. But half the fun of handloading is experimenting.Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?
I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested. Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s. I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps. I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me. The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters. I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened. I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure
Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X? I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag. It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel.
I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???
Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?
Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel
thats what I was thinking. Steve puts up the recommended minimum twist rates on each options available on the website. I thought I would try and cheat the system a little and step up in grain like you did, it didn't work. I ended up talking to steve and decided that if I actually listen to him and follow his recommendations, the bullets actually work really well. You should give the 196gr hammers a try if you want long range stuff. If you want something to shoot under 500 yards, give the 199 sledge hammers a try. Both of those are shooting amazing for me. I just did a 400 yard group with the 196s and the group measured 2.1", good enough for me and my setup.
Yeah, I have no doubt if I use the right bullet they will shoot. They appear very well made and get great reviews. I was trying to cheat the system a bit to push heavies......which is really kind of dumb. A deer could care less if they are shot with a 196 or 214 grainer.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
(EDIT)
Half the fun, all the frustration.
Post by: yorketransport on May 25, 2019, 11:39:51 AM
The Creedmoor is a great example too. I can't remember what it is, but there's a generic load for the Creedmoor that uses around 43.5gr of H4350 with a 140gr bullet and it just seems to work in every gun. There are plenty of folks right now who're cranking up the velocity with good results using a different powder around 150-200 fps faster than the factory loaded 2850 fps or so average. The problem with those top end handloads is that they're VERY hard on barrels. I'd rather move to a larger case to hit the upper velocity node at lower pressure than take a small case and red line it to hit the same velocity.
Since I shoot a lot of short barrels, I typically end up shooting a lower velocity node than similar factory ammo. The other approach that I take with the shorter barrels is to move to a larger case that I know will let me hit that sweet spot for accuracy. It's well know that the 300gr OTM shoots well between 2850 and 2950 fps and then you hit another node right around 3200 fps. I can hit the 3200fps node easily (I'm at 3180 fps) in the 30" 338/408 Improved with pretty modest loads and my Bertram brass is on it's 10 firing and going strong. I've hit 3350 fps in the 30" barrel and it still shot alright but it wasn't anything spectacular. In the 20" barreled 338/408 Improved I shoot the 300gr OTM at 2875 fps with excellent results using the same 140gr charge of H50BMG that I use in the 30" rifle. Just like the rifle though I can crank up the velocity in the 20" barrel and they shoot closer to .75 MOA instead of sub .5 MOA. I imagine that if I could get the 20" barrel up to 3150-3250 fps that it would start grouping well again.
Post by: Oh Mah on May 25, 2019, 11:54:07 AM
Post by: hughjorgan on May 25, 2019, 12:03:21 PM
anyone have a hornady volume 10 load book?
I do...
Post by: Oh Mah on May 25, 2019, 12:06:45 PM
Why do they consider a heavier bullet with more powder safer than a lighter bullet with same powder and charge?
Post by: yorketransport on May 25, 2019, 12:10:34 PM
Ok,I was looking at the load data on page 581 for the max load h 1000 76.2 grains 2800 fps. then the 212 eldx on page 583 max load is 77.6 grain.
Why do they consider a heavier bullet with more powder safer than a lighter bullet with same powder and charge?
The bearing surface is probably different on the two bullets.
Post by: Oh Mah on May 25, 2019, 12:16:42 PM
now 10 grain lighter bullet 190 grain interlock still bt safe at 78 grains h1000 but max for 200 grain bullet is 76.2?