Post by: PA BEN on June 18, 2019, 07:36:28 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on June 18, 2019, 07:48:42 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 18, 2019, 08:57:28 PM
Post by: Dan-o on June 18, 2019, 10:25:19 PM
Post by: Bango skank on June 18, 2019, 11:50:31 PM
That's about a joke. The sheriffs wildlife guy can't do anything without the state involved, calling them first will only delay a response by people that can legally act.
Calling him first ensures that somebody they trust is first on the scene.
Post by: ribka on June 19, 2019, 06:55:44 AM
I wonder how much Mitch Friedman scammed off the state for that one?
Post by: buckfvr on June 19, 2019, 08:10:29 AM
That's about a joke. The sheriffs wildlife guy can't do anything without the state involved, calling them first will only delay a response by people that can legally act.
The joke is your response......were you at the Stevens county commissioners meeting ??, Do you personally know the man ??, I suspect no you werent and no you dont. Being disrespectful and thinking you know it all are two bad traits.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 19, 2019, 08:38:25 AM
Post by: KFhunter on June 19, 2019, 10:08:51 AM
Its a sad state of affairs really, Ive always had great interactions with wdfw staff but im hearing all the older guys I knew are gone and the new guys seem to be "us" vs "them" types so i hear....but I havent met them yet in the field.
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Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 19, 2019, 02:06:25 PM
I know the cougar situation and the details more than almost anyone. I don't have to be at the commissioners meeting petition delivery to understand what's going on there and the exact details of how it went that direction.That's about a joke. The sheriffs wildlife guy can't do anything without the state involved, calling them first will only delay a response by people that can legally act.
The joke is your response......were you at the Stevens county commissioners meeting ??, Do you personally know the man ??, I suspect no you werent and no you dont. Being disrespectful and thinking you know it all are two bad traits.
Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
Post by: idaho guy on June 19, 2019, 02:33:11 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on June 19, 2019, 02:45:16 PM
Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
Because you trust this state over that County? That's a true liberal statement.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 19, 2019, 03:12:11 PM
What? It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...). It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act. Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy.Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
Because you trust this state over that County? That's a true liberal statement.
There is also a bit of a slippery slope here. Should counties be managing wildlife? I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.
Post by: Bango skank on June 19, 2019, 03:12:25 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 19, 2019, 03:14:12 PM
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them. People trust jeff.I agree with that. WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community. Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.
Post by: nwwanderer on June 19, 2019, 03:22:17 PM
Post by: KFhunter on June 19, 2019, 03:31:45 PM
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them. People trust jeff.I agree with that. WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community. Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.
I don't think trust will ever be restored, WDFW has labeled the whole of E/WA as "hostile towards WDFW" (they said so in the meeting) and are acting accordingly; the "people" don't want anything to do with WDFW.
It's "US" vs "THEM" right now, and it's NOT just Stevens and Ferry Counties... but most of E/WA and soon it'll be W/WA too!
Post by: wolfbait on June 19, 2019, 06:18:51 PM
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them. People trust jeff.I agree with that. WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community. Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.
Rescue response delayed for woman treed by wolves in Washington
https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/rescue-response-delayed-for-woman-treed-by-wolves-in-washington/277-580035863
Most people by now have seen the damage wolves have and are doing, what's that old saying? You can chit the fans but not the players, rural E.Wash. etc., have had to play WDFW's wolf games, lost livestock, etc. only to be BS'd beyond belief. Where ever wolves "migrate" to, their true behavior is soon exposed, and it does not favor WDFW's views.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 20, 2019, 10:26:06 AM
What? It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...). It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act. Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy.Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
Because you trust this state over that County? That's a true liberal statement.
There is also a bit of a slippery slope here. Should counties be managing wildlife? I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.
To all: there's no reason this conversation can't remain civil. Labels and name calling aren't necessary.
When the state refuses to take concrete steps to aid the people of the NE corner in combating losses to their businesses, pets, and dangers to their families etc., yes, the counties should step in to protect their neighbors. WDFW may be turning the corner on predator issues under new leadership and I hope that's true. However, the situation for the residents there hasn't turned the corner. They're suffering because of a history of poor predator management and the county sheriff is willing to help alleviate their losses. There's certainly no danger to the predator population by his involvement.
Post by: ribka on June 20, 2019, 10:37:22 AM
How much money has the state wasted on the range rider scam perpetuated by Conservation NW?
Post by: KFhunter on June 20, 2019, 03:48:02 PM
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Post by: MtnMuley on June 20, 2019, 10:07:41 PM
Local law enforcement should get involved especially when it involves public safety.
How much money has the state wasted on the range rider scam perpetuated by Conservation NW?
A lot more people view it the same as us, regardless of what gets posted on this site. :tup:
Post by: buglebrush on June 20, 2019, 10:42:55 PM
People dont trust wdfw to play straight with them. People trust jeff.I agree with that. WDFW has their work cut out rebuilding trust with the community. Part of the problem is a pretty widespread misinformation campaign that people have bought into.
What widespread misinformation? It's plain to everyone that WDFW refuses to manage our predators. Compare the Selkirk unit management to its neighbor in Idaho. WDFW'S belligerent refusal to deal with predators is destroying our game populations, and until that changes it's all just BS.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 21, 2019, 12:42:47 PM
It doesn't sound like the Sheriff's office is making the request that they be called first.... Is it appropriate for the cattleman's association to make this press release without talking to the sheriff's office???
Post by: wolfbait on June 22, 2019, 10:16:56 AM
Reporting wolf/cougar problems to the sheriff at least gets these incidences on record, I know of several wolf problems over the last 12-13 years that WDFW never mentioned a word about in their "dangerous" animal report etc..
The people I have talk to in the Okanogan etc. feel that calling WDFW over wolf predation etc. is a waste of time, quiet public wolf control on the other hand is the way to go in their opinion.
If the wolf pack hanging out at a bus stop in 2008 hadn't been called into the WSP where it went on record, it would not have been confirmed, WDFW were ignoring wolf sightings for years, even ignored reports of wolf predation. I agree 100% if you choose to report wolf/cougar problems call the sheriff.
Did WDFW ever have an impact statement for WA.? Or will that info. come out after there is nothing left to hunt......
Wolf impacts underestimated
According to the Wyoming Game and Fish Department, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service grossly underestimated the impact of a reintroduced population of wolves.
• The wolf population in the Greater Yellowstone area in 2005 was at least 3.3 times the original environmental impact statement prediction for a recovered population.
• The number of breeding pairs of wolves in the GYA in 2005 was at least twice as high as the original EIS prediction and the number of breeding pairs in 2004 was at least 3.1 times the original EIS prediction.
• In 2005, the wolf population in Wyoming outside Yellowstone National Park exceeded the recovery criteria for the entire region and continues to increase rapidly.
• The estimated annual predation rate (22 ungulates per wolf) is 1.8 times the annual predation rate (12 ungulates per wolf) predicted in the EIS.
• The estimated number of ungulates taken by 325 wolves in a year (7,150) is six times higher than the original EIS prediction.
• The percent of the northern Yellowstone elk harvest during the 1980s currently taken by wolves (50 percent) is 6.3 times the original estimate of eight percent projected in the EIS.
• The actual decline in the northern Yellowstone elk herd (more than 50 percent) is 1.7 times the maximum decline originally forecast in the EIS.
• The actual decline in cow harvest in the northern Yellowstone elk herd (89 percent) is 3.3 times the decline originally forecast in the EIS.
• The actual decline in bull harvest in the northern Yellowstone elk herd is 75 percent, whereas the 1994 EIS predicted bull harvests would be “unaffected.”
• Since wolf introduction, average ratios of calf elk to cow elk have been greatly \depressed in the northern Yellowstone elk herd and in the Wyoming elk herds impacted by wolves. In the northern Yellowstone elk herd and in the Sunlight unit of the Clarks Fork herd, calf:cow rations have been suppressed to unprecedented levels below 15 calves per 100. The impact of wolves on calf recruitment was not addressed by the 1994 EIS.
WG&F stated: “Despite research findings in Idaho and the Greater Yellowstone Area, and monitoring evidence in Wyoming that indicate wolf predation is having an impact on ungulate populations that will reduce hunter opportunity if the current impact levels persist, the Service continues to rigidly deny wolf predation is a problem.”
The 1994 EIS predicted that presence of wolves would result in a 5-10 percent increase in annual visitation to Yellowstone National Park. On this basis, the EIS forecast wolves in the region would generate $20 million in revenue to the states of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming. WG&F reports that annual park visitation remained essentially unchanged after wolf introduction, and has decreased 2.6 percent since the wolf population reached recovery goals in 2000.
“ Since park visitation did not increase as originally forecast, the Service cannot legitimately conclude presence of wolves has had any appreciable effect on net tourism revenues,” WG&F stated.
WG&F stated: “Wolf presence can be ecologically compatible in the GYA only to the extent that the distribution and numbers of wolves are controlled and maintained at approximately the levels originally predicted by the 1994 EIS –100 wolves and 10 breeding pairs.” WG&F maintained that FWS “has a permanent, legal obligation to manage wolves at the levels on which the wolf recovery program was originally predicated, the levels described by the impact analysis in the 1994 EIS.”
http://www.pinedaleonline.com/wolf/wolfimpacts.htm
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Post by: PA BEN on June 26, 2019, 05:51:07 AM
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/jun/21/cattleman-association-in-stevens-county-urges-resi/?fbclid=IwAR316tZVAuDsykxdoSRYDw2PXhBGGNGbWCecm1_Ab9tbbrW1dwe1DwOAk8kStevens County Sheriff and County Prosecutor came out in local papers and local FB pages asking to be called first. A local called on a cougar kill and the Sheriff and WDFW showed up with hounds. Also, our local Sheriffs are trained in wolf attacks and can confirm them when WDFW would not.
It doesn't sound like the Sheriff's office is making the request that they be called first.... Is it appropriate for the cattleman's association to make this press release without talking to the sheriff's office???
Post by: buckfvr on June 26, 2019, 08:38:23 AM
What? It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...). It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act. Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy.Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
Because you trust this state over that County? That's a true liberal statement.
There is also a bit of a slippery slope here. Should counties be managing wildlife? I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.
Should our WDFW officers be doing drug busts, motor vehicle citations, and dui's ????? You have always had wdfw's back as long as I can remember, that can be a good thing, but I suspect its because you are complicit in their efforts and privy to a large bit of their secrecy and refusal to share information publicly. At times you exude the mannerisms that people have come to detest in wdfw. You always seem to respond as if you are defending yourself. Listen to peoples concerns and try to NOT be so condescending.
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 26, 2019, 08:57:03 AM
What? It doesn't have anything to do with liberal or conservative (not everything does BTW...). It has to do with the level of expertise that I expect on a response and the ability to act. Calling the county in addition to the state is costly and unnecessary redundancy.Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
Because you trust this state over that County? That's a true liberal statement.
There is also a bit of a slippery slope here. Should counties be managing wildlife? I don't think they should, I think the sheriff should stick to public safety issues.
Should our WDFW officers be doing drug busts, motor vehicle citations, and dui's ????? You have always had wdfw's back as long as I can remember, that can be a good thing, but I suspect its because you are complicit in their efforts and privy to a large bit of their secrecy and refusal to share information publicly. At times you exude the mannerisms that people have come to detest in wdfw. You always seem to respond as if you are defending yourself. Listen to peoples concerns and try to NOT be so condescending.
Sometimes, the way people are approached/attacked on this forum triggers a defensive or condescending response. WAcoyotehunter has a unique perspective, one that I don't always agree with. But his background and knowledge have certain bona fides with regards to predators and their management.
As far as your comment about gamies doing drug busts, DUIs, and traffic citations, that's part of their job as LE. And to WAcoyote I say, respectfully, a sheriff's job is to protect and serve his constituents, the people who live in the county that elected him. If he and those constituents feel that the response from DFW LE or bios is insufficient to protect them, then it's his responsibility to do so to the best of his ability. The NE corner has a severe predator problem, as we all know, more so than the rest of the state. Predators there are in no danger of population downward spiral because of a sheriff protecting his "flock".
Post by: buckfvr on June 26, 2019, 09:29:24 AM
Post by: PA BEN on June 26, 2019, 09:08:15 PM
Post by: wolfbait on June 30, 2019, 05:15:13 AM
:hello:
Thanks for clearing this up Pa Ben! :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on June 30, 2019, 06:45:58 AM
That's about a joke. The sheriffs wildlife guy can't do anything without the state involved, calling them first will only delay a response by people that can legally act.I'm pretty sure you are incorrect, the county can and will respond to any complaint, the county cannot kill a wolf after the fact, that would require state approval, but the county agent can assess the situation. Director Susewind has been meeting with the County Sherriffs and I think that's improving the level of cooperation by the state. This new director is definitely working to improve things.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/jun/21/cattleman-association-in-stevens-county-urges-resi/?fbclid=IwAR316tZVAuDsykxdoSRYDw2PXhBGGNGbWCecm1_Ab9tbbrW1dwe1DwOAk8kThe cattlemen depend on the sheriffs office to bring accountability to depredation issues.
It doesn't sound like the Sheriff's office is making the request that they be called first.... Is it appropriate for the cattleman's association to make this press release without talking to the sheriff's office???
Deputy meets wdfw on the scene if possible due to prior harassment complaints and threats by wdfw. It was discussed in the meeting. Wdfw is not trusted here.You are correct.
Its a sad state of affairs really, Ive always had great interactions with wdfw staff but im hearing all the older guys I knew are gone and the new guys seem to be "us" vs "them" types so i hear....but I havent met them yet in the field.
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I know you do work for the state at times , but I think your comments in this topic perfectly display the attitude the people have been seeing from WDFW.I know the cougar situation and the details more than almost anyone. I don't have to be at the commissioners meeting petition delivery to understand what's going on there and the exact details of how it went that direction.That's about a joke. The sheriffs wildlife guy can't do anything without the state involved, calling them first will only delay a response by people that can legally act.
The joke is your response......were you at the Stevens county commissioners meeting ??, Do you personally know the man ??, I suspect no you werent and no you dont. Being disrespectful and thinking you know it all are two bad traits.
Having the county accompany the state on a depredation is a waste of time and money.
:yeah:https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/jun/21/cattleman-association-in-stevens-county-urges-resi/?fbclid=IwAR316tZVAuDsykxdoSRYDw2PXhBGGNGbWCecm1_Ab9tbbrW1dwe1DwOAk8kStevens County Sheriff and County Prosecutor came out in local papers and local FB pages asking to be called first. A local called on a cougar kill and the Sheriff and WDFW showed up with hounds. Also, our local Sheriffs are trained in wolf attacks and can confirm them when WDFW would not.
It doesn't sound like the Sheriff's office is making the request that they be called first.... Is it appropriate for the cattleman's association to make this press release without talking to the sheriff's office???
The county prosecutor was also on the Colville radio all week a few weeks ago emphasizing to everyone to be sure and call the county sherriff with depredation problems. The county wildlife agent, Jeff, is a good man, he knows what he is doing, ranchers in the area all know and trust him. WDFW has squandered away nearly every bit of trust with their past actions or lack of actions in the NE.
Our county agent has brought a lot of accountability to the whole wolf fiasco, more accountability than WDFW likes. Several years ago I started a topic on this forum regarding wolf sightings. This was before WDFW was doing much to monitor wolves and telling everyone they were seeing coyotes, we already had wolves showing up all over the NE. I collected numerous wolf photos and posted them in that wolf topic proving there are wolves in WA, these photos were also shown to the wildlife commission to prove WDFW was not on top of the wolf numbers, many of these photos came from the trail cams of Jeff, the guy who is now our county agent. He knew more about the wolves and how to find them than WDFW. Quite a lot of pressure was put on WDFW to step up their wolf monitoring. As a result of many local requests for WDFW to hire Jeff, for a short time he worked for WDFW, but they made it too hard for him to make a living so he quit to take a better paying job (most everyone who knows this story firmly believes that was a carefully orchestrated move by WDFW).
WDFW promoted Jay Shepard to be their wolf guy, well he now works for a leading wolf group, I guess that explains that situation pretty well!
Example of WDFW Actions: Several years ago I called in to report wolves that were trying to attack a neighbors kenneled German Shepherds, he said the wolves were larger than the shepherds and he had to shoot to scare them away. The state sent agents to investigate, I received a nasty call back that it was only coyotes and more or less to quit spreading untrue rumors (I forget the exact wording but it was not friendly and straight to the point). So I know first hand exactly how WDFW had been treating ranchers and local residents. I've been told WDFW actions have improved but I can first hand verify why the distrust and frustration exists.
I could write many paragraphs of poor experiences local people have had with WDFW probably every year for about a decade including this year regarding depredation problems, mostly cougar and wolves. This is essentially why the county sheriffs now have their own agent, Jeff, to respond when these depredations occur, he brings expertise, civility, accountability, and a quicker response from WDFW in Stevens and Ferry Counties.
Thank you Jeff for being there when people need help!
Post by: buckfvr on June 30, 2019, 08:43:04 AM
This has become a public safety issue and those who fail to co-operate should be given other non related duties. Jeff has the support of many of us concerned with the predator issues, and Im sure that rankles wdfw.
As a result of many years of misinformation (lies) by wdfw, the public has turned to a local citizen ("Jeff"), for answers about predators. In doing so, we have somewhat circumvented wdfw on this issue. We no longer have to rely on them for answers or action. That is a good thing.
R
Post by: Wenatcheejay on September 03, 2019, 01:30:55 PM
I SUPPORT WOLF INTRODUCTION IN LARGE NUMBERS to Western Washington. Trapping and transporting sustainable numbers all up and down I-5. Eastern Washington needs to stop selfishly hoarding these noble beasts that only feed from the sick and the weak. This idea of natural migration myth or not takes to long. We need to help our Seattle based brothers and sisters achieve their dream of wolves. "Wolf Haven" And their caged critters isn't enough. I call for Eastern Washington to share what they have.
It's really all I want anymore.
Post by: ThomMedic on September 07, 2019, 11:34:08 AM
I have been tempted to call Wolf Haven and ask if they would support the introduction of wolves to the beautiful forests that surround them. :bash:
Both places are within 10 miles of downtown Olympia.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 22, 2019, 10:01:48 AM