Post by: farmin4u_98948 on October 29, 2019, 06:32:29 PM
Post by: Bango skank on October 29, 2019, 06:36:03 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on October 29, 2019, 06:38:01 PM
The reason I ask is I had a zero degree bag and was uncomfortable because I was sweating and was getting chilled because of that
Post by: TooTallMike on October 29, 2019, 06:41:30 PM
Post by: ThurstonCokid on October 29, 2019, 06:47:56 PM
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Post by: kselkhunter on October 29, 2019, 06:49:03 PM
More insulation underneath is a good idea. Also a sleeping bag liner is a good idea for adding warmth (also easier to keep the inside of the bag cleaner that way).
I have a 20F rated Feathered Friends bag. I will be backpacked into the snow this Friday for 9 days. Am guessing overnight temps will range from mid 20's down to the teens, and I'll be camped on top of a few feet of packed snow. I'll have my ultralight cot, a closed cell foam pad, a NeoAir mattress, my sleeping bag, and a liner. And I have some thick thermal wool top and bottoms as well as down booties if it gets really cold. And warm beanie hat. That way I can layer myself to match temperature changes. The only time in the past that I got really cold was when things got down close to 0F one time...but I have a lightweight packable small down jacket that I can put on in really extreme conditions.
I'd focus on the added insulation layer underneath the bag (adds comfort as well), and the bag liner.
Post by: Alchase on October 29, 2019, 06:52:45 PM
I alway use another down bag between my cot pad and my bag, but you can sure feel those 20 degree nights when you have some serious drafts. Make having to get up in the middle of the night to pee a torture.
I just bought a TETON Sports Celcius XXL to replace the Big Agnes. It would be nice to get 10 years out of this as well.
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 29, 2019, 06:54:25 PM
If u want to warm up a little throw a hot hands in the bag it will increase your comfort level a few degrees...
Post by: WildlifeAssassin on October 29, 2019, 07:01:56 PM
Post by: RobinHoodlum on October 29, 2019, 07:11:18 PM
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on October 29, 2019, 07:23:08 PM
Fill a 1 liter Nalgene with boiling water. Works wonders when we're climbing the volcanos and other big mountains that require overnight on snow or glacier
This is a great trip, but when the heat runs out in the bottle your heat will transfer back the other way so you have to take it out.
Last year in Alaska I was so cold I shivered through the first 2 nights at around 15-20 degrees in a zero degree bag. I started opening the 8 hour hot hands and throwing one in the bag by my feet. It helped quite a bit. I have thought about getting a liner to try with my sleeping bag.
Post by: ghosthunter on October 29, 2019, 07:38:07 PM
A hot water bottle. Fill it with boiling water, throw in your bag down in the bottom couple hours before bed time sleep comfy all night. Never leave home without it. Best 11.00 Ever spent. :tup:
Post by: Jpmiller on October 29, 2019, 07:58:16 PM
I'm pretty sure it's more important to find which bag works best for you as opposed to what bag works for others. Find a style your comfortable in, buy a heavier bag if you get cold, and buy the best quality you can afford.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 29, 2019, 08:00:34 PM
It helped quite a bit.👍
Post by: Jpmiller on October 29, 2019, 08:01:26 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.
It helped quite a bit.👍
I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.
Post by: X-Force on October 29, 2019, 08:12:45 PM
One thing to add is make sure you store and wash your bag properly. Store bags hung up in a closet, usually inside out. Keeping bags in their stuff sack and even their storage bag compresses the insulation and ruins the loft stealing your insulation rating.
Post by: jrebel on October 29, 2019, 08:20:23 PM
Post by: Alchase on October 29, 2019, 08:20:40 PM
Lots of great comments and info.
One thing to add is make sure you store and wash your bag properly. Store bags hung up in a closet, usually inside out. Keeping bags in their stuff sack and even their storage bag compresses the insulation and ruins the loft stealing your insulation rating.
I air my bags out for a couple days, roll it up or stuff it depending, and don't think about it until a couple weeks before the next hunting season. Then I try to remember how funky I got last year, and do I need to wash it?
Nah, were good to go............. :chuckle:
Post by: Buckjunkie on October 29, 2019, 08:24:59 PM
When we hunt I temps colder than 0 we rent a house or stay in a motel.
Post by: Alchase on October 29, 2019, 08:31:46 PM
How do you fit in your bag. You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up. If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value. If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space. Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags. I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off.
I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.
Post by: jrebel on October 29, 2019, 08:41:23 PM
How do you fit in your bag. You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up. If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value. If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space. Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags. I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off.
I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.
For all the reasons you speak to.....I bought a quilt!! :chuckle: :chuckle: In really cold temps I wear my......don't laugh.....hoodlum on my head. Man it will flat cook your noggin. :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:
https://enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum-stock/
Post by: REHJWA on October 29, 2019, 08:41:57 PM
Post by: buckfvr on October 29, 2019, 09:02:36 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 29, 2019, 09:08:24 PM
I have a Kuiu 0 deg mummy bag. A thermo rest r 5.7 pad. At 10 deg I had heavy Sitka thermals , hat, gloves, smartwool socks. And. I was still not comfortable. Going to wash my bag and see if that helps. I was out 4 days and things were covered in a layer of ice on the outside but I should have been able to get comfortable.... Any ideas ... thinking of putting a thin closed chill pad under my thermo rest. I dunno.You'll feel the same in a FF or WM 0 bag as well. Just something a guy has to get accustomed to. :twocents:
Also, it's not a pad issue either with your 5.7 Thermorest.
Post by: KFhunter on October 29, 2019, 09:12:57 PM
The easiest and most effective thing for staying warm is to tweak your own body chemistry. Eat as much red meat as possible, you know the meat sweats? That is because it’s incredibly energy dense and your body creates heat when it has an excessive amount of readily burned fuel. Most common backpacking food is the exact opposite of steak, sure it’s light weight but it’s nutritional value is also ultra light. Supplement Iodine and stop drinking fluoridated water. Being healthy keeps you warm, not to say gear isn’t important but start with your body first.
:yeah:
and I always get cold when I loose 5 lbs, which I always loose 5 lbs on a big hunt :chuckle:
Post by: Tjv28 on October 29, 2019, 09:16:57 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 29, 2019, 09:41:10 PM
Post by: wadu1 on October 29, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
A hooch mate to keep you warm. :dunno::yeah:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 29, 2019, 10:15:51 PM
Your best bet if fit allows is just add some layers. Puffy jacket and pants if you are packing them. Good stocking cap and down booty's ard clutch.
Post by: huntnnw on October 29, 2019, 10:18:25 PM
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 09:14:10 AM
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.
If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.
Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on October 30, 2019, 09:37:19 AM
Post by: banishd on October 30, 2019, 10:07:44 AM
I use a homemade quilt with 7.5 oz apex insulation with neoair pad in a bivy in my tipi. Warmer than my 12 deg mummy bag ever was. If your bag has too much room or not enough room, you will be colder than you should be. Throw a some clothes in the bottom of the bag if you have too much room in the footbox, or buy a bigger bag if it fits tight. Better yet go the quilt route. Insulation works to keep you warm by trapping layers of air. Compress it and lose warmth, too much airspace and you cant get it warm to start with.
Post by: baker5150 on October 30, 2019, 10:23:11 AM
A MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.
If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.
Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.
R value is R value. It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.
I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads.
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on October 30, 2019, 10:35:10 AM
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much. Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issueA MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.
If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.
Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.
R value is R value. It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.
I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads.
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
Post by: Stein on October 30, 2019, 10:59:01 AM
If you sleep cold, look toward the mountaineering brands and get a better bag. Look to what people who do winter mountaineering use, not the brands that just appeared in the last couple of years or the gram counters use.
After the October opener when things start to cool, I switch to a down -20 bag and am never cold. I have owned it since 1999 and it is 98% as good today as it was back then.
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
Whatever.
Obviously my mules don't care about packing a cott, 2-3" foam rolled tight, and a nice fleece lined bag.
AND all cotts are leveled with tent ditched around perimeter.
Seriously........................ I sympathize with you back pack types.
Eatin paper soaked in water.
Sleeping cold, wet, and uncomfortable.
Waking up to frozen, wet boots.
Wishin you had just one roll of paper towels after each Touchbrown you score.
You guys are a hard working, tough group and deserve every success.
PS.
Don't forget your tire patch kit for when you get a flat pad.
Post by: Pegasus on October 30, 2019, 11:17:33 AM
Post by: Stein on October 30, 2019, 11:29:31 AM
Cold air an insulator??????...........Yea once it robs your core temperature to heat it.
Whatever.
That is exactly how insulation works. Unless you heat it, any sleeping bag, pad, shirt or whatever is cold. Your body heat warms the trapped air, the material keeps the air from moving and you are insulated from the cold.
Trapped air is what insulates you whether you are using a foam pad, inflatable or a bunch of branches on the ground. The more cold air that is trapped against your body, the warmer you will be.
To the OP, you could get a warmer bag, get a liner, add another pad (many use 2 or more in the winter), wear more clothes, put your bag in a bivvy sack, or try eating a bunch of fat before you go to bed. Your body will burn it during the night and you will sleep warmer.
For me, I'll pack a couple extra ounces and have a tried and true winter bag. 20 years ago I just got tired of being cold in the winter while mountaineering in Montana and spent an enormous amount of money at the time on a quality bag. With that bag and a bivvy, I have slept to -22 comfortable (a bit chilly but not cold enough to not sleep well). In normal hunting temps, I am plenty warm all the time.
Post by: kselkhunter on October 30, 2019, 11:30:59 AM
It's always a cost vs. weight vs. comfort tradeoff for backpack backcountry hunting. And that becomes more difficult for the later seasons.
As I mentioned upthread, for snow hunts I double up my pads using both a foam pad and an air pad for both insulation and comfort. The challenge is not rolling off them at night for me. So I either use the ultralight cot or the bivy to put the pads and sleeping bag on/in. The cot is always a weight tradeoff, but it's so comfy. It's easier to justify packing the cot in archery or muzzy seasons, but for snow trips in rifle elk season I'm packing so much more extra weight (clothes, tipi/stove, etc.) sometimes I choose to save weight and leave the cot and take the bivy instead for use inside my tipi. I don't keep my tipi stove burning all night as those titanium stoves don't keep heat throughout the night. I burn it until I fall asleep. So have to make sure my sleep system is sufficient to withstand the cold of the night once the stove is out.
Good luck to all that are either already out on rifle elk east or are heading out this weekend for rifle elk west.
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 11:48:13 AM
Post by: baker5150 on October 30, 2019, 11:57:49 AM
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much. Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issueA MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.
If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.
Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.
R value is R value. It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.
I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads.
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
Great tip with the Leuko tape. Ill give that a shot.
I've spent a lot of time digging out tent spots. I won't sleep a wink if i'm sloped in any direction.
Post by: jstone on October 30, 2019, 11:59:41 AM
Post by: Alchase on October 30, 2019, 12:03:45 PM
I can't think of much worse than trying to sleep in wet and cold clothes or Bag. Makes for one miserable night.
How do you fit in your bag. You need some....not to much....but some dead space that allows for loft and air to heat up. If the bag is to tight and you are flatten down the loft you loose a ton of R value. If it is too big your body heat cannot heat the dead space. Air is a wonderful insulator inside these bags. I slept with a quilt and Xped down mat in the Idaho back country and was hot.....like had to stick my legs out at times to cool off.
I have to have that dead space, my feet constantly move. I can't do mummy bags, never could stand the straight jacket feel of them. I like extra wide bags that I can put my clothes in for the next day so they are nice and warm when I need to put them on. If 30 degrees or above, I am usually sleeping in just my boxers because I sleep so hot. When it gets In the twenties I put some long underwear or fleece pajamas and a beeny or do-rag on. If it gets real cold I will put on a hoodie.
Besides between my constant flip flopping from side to side I would strangle myself with a mummy bag.
For all the reasons you speak to.....I bought a quilt!! :chuckle: :chuckle: In really cold temps I wear my......don't laugh.....hoodlum on my head. Man it will flat cook your noggin. :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:
https://enlightenedequipment.com/hoodlum-stock/
If it keeps you warm who cares what anyone else thinks, run with it! If I was there with you I would probably snicker when you pulled it out, :chuckle:
I would drown in sweat in that hoody.
My son puts on every piece of clothing he has before he goes to bed, then can't understand why he is so cold when he has to get out for the hunt.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on October 30, 2019, 12:09:42 PM
I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.
It helped quite a bit.👍
I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.
:yeah: wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando ;)
Post by: mburrows on October 30, 2019, 12:51:59 PM
Bags are rated at survival temp not comfort rating..a zero bag will be good for low 30s Mid 20s for comfort level depending on the person.....if u want to be warm in the cold you need a negative bag..
If u want to warm up a little throw a hot hands in the bag it will increase your comfort level a few degrees...
Not true, its a comfort rating system.
A 0* bag from one company may match up more comparably to a 15* bag from another.
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 12:56:39 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on October 30, 2019, 01:14:25 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.
:yike: Please, No pics!
Post by: 7mmfan on October 30, 2019, 01:15:33 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.
Does your wife pull start that heater for you? Or is it manual?
Post by: linxx77 on October 30, 2019, 01:31:23 PM
I usually run a gas powered sack heater.
That’s what my wife calls my bum after we go out for Mexican food.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: 2MANY on October 30, 2019, 01:34:57 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on October 30, 2019, 01:46:37 PM
Kick start due to high compression.
Just don't drop the clutch to early... or to late :yike:
Post by: sterlryu on October 30, 2019, 03:44:57 PM
Post by: huntnnw on October 31, 2019, 06:13:36 AM
Post by: 2MANY on October 31, 2019, 12:18:48 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on October 31, 2019, 12:37:08 PM
A handwarmer or two in the bag (one by the feet, one by the chest, never on bare skin though) was a pretty good trick in the military that let me use a 30 degree bag in the field if it was colder than expected. Hot water bottle also works well, if time consuming to boil.
I have done the handwarmer route before and it helps a lot. I just used in the foot of the bag
Post by: jrebel on October 31, 2019, 01:16:20 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on October 31, 2019, 05:59:43 PM
Post by: swift on November 01, 2019, 06:43:29 AM
I'd add that a few minutes of site prep alleviates a lot of pad slip. Start with a flat spot and you don't slide around near as much. Some simple strips of leuko tape also nukes the issueA MAJOR sleeping issue with today's generation of flatbrimmers is running pads that inflate.
Thermarest is a slippery joke.
I called them and asked why they don't use a fabric that wont slide on a cott or sleeping bag and the guy said we receive a lot of complaints about that but nothing is in the works to change.
I own 4 of them and they sit on the shelf and collect mouse piss now.
If your pad inflates that is 75% of your cold problem.
Air has next to nothing for insulation value and thinking because there is a little foam in there it will be different is a cool concept...............................Literally.
Foam is the answer.
Foam pads don't slip, don't hold air, and flat out insulate.
Sleep on a foam pad=Sleep warm.
R value is R value. It's not relative to material when comparing equal values.
I agree that Foam is more comfortable, and doesn't slip like air pads.
Pad slipping is one of my main sleep issues when in the backcountry, but certainly not worth packing in a bulky foam pad.
Some stripes of seam sealer works wonders as well 😉
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 01, 2019, 06:52:14 AM
Post by: swanny on November 04, 2019, 02:22:23 PM
I didn't ready everything, but lots of good suggestions to add a liner or closed cell foam under your current mat. The EXPED DownMat's are also going to be the most efficient and warm backpackable mats on the market. If you aren't backpacking, check out the EXPED MegaMat series for ultimate comfort and warmth.
Post by: Alchase on November 05, 2019, 03:00:02 PM
Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!
:chuckle:
Post by: Bushcraft on November 06, 2019, 11:56:49 AM
Just because a bag has a particular rating doesn't mean that the rating is going to be comfortable for you. You need to figure out if it is in fact accurate not only your "normal" sleeping, but also if you're body is stressed. How is that bag going to perform if you are dehydrated, hungry, physically drained, damp clothes, high humidity level in the air, if your bag is exposed to a breeze or condensation, etc. Lots of factors at play.
I use a closed cell foam pad, an inflatable pad with an R value appropriate for the conditions, a pillow and an appropriate sleeping bag for the range of conditions I can reasonably expect to encounter during the course of a particular hunt. I deliberately go to bed with a full belly from a warm meal with a lot of quality fats. Protein and carbs are of course essential components of the holy trinity of nutritional intake, but FATS are what keep your furnace burning at night. Suck down some ghee or olive oil and I guarantee you'll have a better night's sleep in cold weather.
Your sleeping bag - regardless of it's temperature rating, is just insulation.
Your body needs to burn calories in order to generate enough heat to keep you warm.
The closed cell foam pad is for insulation insurance and to try and keep my inflatable from getting punctured. I use it all the time as a glassing pad or a pad to sit on around camp to keep my Me from getting cold. Every calorie I have to burn to stay warm is a calorie I have to pack with me into the field.
The inflatables I have range from UL synmats that are basically just baffled air, to thick and wide down filled beds. You will sleep better on these than just a hard ground pad. Better sleep makes for a better hunter. Just don't make the mistake of overfilling them. If you can't figure out how to keep your pad from slipping around, try putting 20-40 small silicon dots all over the top and bottom surfaces.
Bring a pillow. You use one at home. You'll be uncomfortable in the field if you suddenly don't. Inflatables are great in a pinch to elevate your head but I find them to be aggravatingly unstable and prefer the Thermarest travel pillow. The latter is also a lot warmer.
I probably have 7-8 bags ranging from barely there UL summertime shells, to serious cold weather options. If you don't have a dedicated bag that can get down into the teens or single digits or even below zero, just double up with two bags. My current favorite is a Kifaru 20 Degree Long/Wide Slick Bag. I used it for about 30ish nights in the field thus far this hunting season and have nothing but great things to say about it.
It shrugged off the insanely wet conditions of High Buck and kept me plenty warm during last week's successful elk hunt where it got down into the low single digits. I used an old 3/4 Ridgerest closed cell foam pad that needs to be retired, an Exped Synmat UL7, a Thermarest travel pillow, and the Kifaru 20 degree Slick Bag. I knew it was going to get cold so I wore some thick wool socks, KUIU zip-off bottoms with a KUIU vest draped over my legs inside the bag, my KUIU Attack Pants, a KUIU wool t-shirt, a KUIU wool long sleeve shirt, a NF micro-fleece full-zip and my Kifaru Lost Parka for my torso and a fleece beanie for my noggin. In addition to eating a super high calorie dinner that was heavy on added ghee and olive oil fats, I also...and here's the trick...filled my Nalgene bottles with boiling water and put them in OR's insulated water bottle holders. They are game changers for wintertime backcountry sleeping. One went down by my feet with my boots and the other sort of migrated around but usually resided in the groin/femoral artery area. I would have preferred to have had the superior R-value of one of my Exped Downmats since my back felt cooler in comparison to everything else towards the coldest hours just before daylight, but I was by no means cold or uncomfortable. Due to an unfortunate mix-up and my packer getting lost, I ended up having to sleep out under the stars at a pre-determined meat pick-up site. Had a pretty good layer of frost on the bag in the morning but the synthetic insulation shrugged it off.
Bottom line: Don't wait until hunting season to test your gear.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on November 11, 2019, 12:23:32 PM
I knew it was going to get cold so I wore some thick wool socks, KUIU zip-off bottoms with a KUIU vest draped over my legs inside the bag, my KUIU Attack Pants, a KUIU wool t-shirt, a KUIU wool long sleeve shirt, a NF micro-fleece full-zip and my Kifaru Lost Parka for my torso and a fleece beanie for my noggin.
You musta been toasty ! Check out a Kuiu 6.4 oz super down puffy jacket for insulation - at one-third the weight you would be roasting in your sleeping bag.
Post by: lamrith on November 11, 2019, 01:01:40 PM
^^ I didn't see this mentioned previously in the thread. I thought the key with a sleeping bag was to NOT wear much clothing? Yet I see people here talking about bundling up in their bag? I was always lead to believe that you wanted your body heat out of your clothing as that is what actually heats the bag?I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.
It helped quite a bit.👍
I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.
:yeah: wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando ;)
I did not believe it until I did it (mind you not super cold like some of you are dealing with, but my bag was temp range appropriate), but I had been cold wearing sweats in my bag. I dropped down to skivies and a tshirt and was quickly comfortable and slept well the rest of the trip.
Post by: Jason on November 11, 2019, 01:48:07 PM
Post by: swanny on November 11, 2019, 02:48:32 PM
^^ I didn't see this mentioned previously in the thread. I thought the key with a sleeping bag was to NOT wear much clothing? Yet I see people here talking about bundling up in their bag? I was always lead to believe that you wanted your body heat out of your clothing as that is what actually heats the bag?I tired something new this year, put a military wool blanket on my cot then then my pad then another military blanket with bag on that.
It helped quite a bit.👍
I'm pretty sure wool is the answer for everything.
:yeah: wool blankets, flannel sheet, and commando ;)
I did not believe it until I did it (mind you not super cold like some of you are dealing with, but my bag was temp range appropriate), but I had been cold wearing sweats in my bag. I dropped down to skivies and a tshirt and was quickly comfortable and slept well the rest of the trip.
Any bag with an EN or ISO rating (most any bag worth it's money will have on) assumes that the user will be wearing mid weight socks, long underwear top and bottom, beanie, and I believe gloves as well. The bags are then independently lab tested for their results to help assist you get a more quality to bag to more closely match the conditions you will use the bag in.
Quilts or bags without a hood are not tested or sold with these 3rd party ratings.
Post by: ian_padron on December 14, 2019, 07:52:19 PM
Bags are rated at survival temp not comfort rating..a zero bag will be good for low 30s Mid 20s for comfort level depending on the person.....if u want to be warm in the cold you need a negative bag..That's incorrect information on the ratings.
If u want to warm up a little throw a hot hands in the bag it will increase your comfort level a few degrees...
EN rated bags (if high quality) will be comfortable down to the rated temperature. They are 3rd party tested to verify that fact.
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Post by: branches on December 14, 2019, 09:11:10 PM
Post by: MADMAX on December 14, 2019, 09:15:42 PM
Never been cold in it
Post by: highside74 on December 14, 2019, 10:58:00 PM
What shelter were you sleeping in? Tarp? In a tent I think you would have been plenty warm
I found this out the hard way. I will never tarp again. Same bag same location used a tent the next weekend and was way more comfortable.
Post by: Gobble Doc on December 14, 2019, 11:39:39 PM
Too funnyKick start due to high compression.
Just don't drop the clutch to early... or to late :yike:
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Post by: Ghost Hunter on December 15, 2019, 08:15:36 AM
I have a Cabela’s Alaska guide mummy bag rated to -20
Never been cold in it
:yeah: Unless you stick your head out and brain freezes.
Post by: Sneaky on December 15, 2019, 09:53:31 AM
Post by: Cougartail on December 15, 2019, 11:19:57 AM
Post by: MADMAX on December 15, 2019, 01:43:09 PM
I have a Cabela’s Alaska guide mummy bag rated to -20
Never been cold in it
:yeah: Unless you stick your head out and brain freezes.
That’s a very true statement I remember back in the day when we used to use sterno to warm up in the morning in the back of the canopy up in the Nile in 2 feet of snow wasn’t fun but you do learn to wear a watch cap at night
Post by: Rock7 on December 15, 2019, 08:39:22 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 15, 2019, 08:45:11 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on December 15, 2019, 09:26:16 PM
Look into what you wear going to sleep. I have spent a few winters in AK in the Army and guys who wore lots of clothes in their bags froze at night because they sweat. silk weight long-johns, dry socks, and a beanie cap is all you need.:yeah:
Post by: Vek on December 17, 2019, 11:52:48 AM
I consider it foolish to backpack in cold temps with just an inflatable pad to sleep on. I bring either a 3/4 ridgerest, 3/4 z-rest or full length closed cell black foam to put on top of my inflatable. That has worked best for me. Sheep in Alaska...that was a 3/4 ridgerest only show, which sucks, but you get used to it.
There are certainly better bags out there, but these have worked for me. The phantom 15 has a full draft collar around neck/shoulders with a drawstring, and that is a MANDATORY ITEM to prevent massive heat loss through bellowing and infiltration.
Post by: Utah on December 25, 2019, 10:56:08 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 25, 2019, 11:01:43 PM
Post by: OltHunter on December 26, 2019, 02:45:08 PM
My :twocents: that has been covered, but will reiterate:
My rule of thumb - Take the bags temperature rating to start:
Add 10 degrees to for a true comfort level rating - full baselayer, socks, and hat fully enclosed, draft collar fully closed up. So a 0 degree bag is a 10 degree bag.
Add 10 degrees if you are a woman (no experience with this as i'm not one - just word of mouth).
Add 10 degrees if you are a cold sleeper. Your 0 degree bag is now a 20 degree bag.
That is your baseline to choose your bag rating based on the temperatures you are facing and how much extra weight you want/need to pack in to hit that temperature.
Now it's a game of weight vs cost vs down vs synthetic, i won't get into that.
But to get back to the OP's issue - your bag is really not a 0 degree bag, it's not the bag or company's fault. If you are cold in 10 degrees - you will have to supplement as a sub 10 degree bag is not the most viable on a pack in trip.
My best advice is to get a puffy coat and pant set. Puffy coat, everyone should have. Pants are a good thing to have too as they can serve 2 purposes in the field and at night.
#2 is closed cell foam pad that you can fold up relatively small, which can server as a glassing pad too.
I'm not sure the viability of packing in 2 bags, or heavy wool blankets.
But that's the equation - how much weight do you want to sacrifice for a good nights sleep? Puffy coat and pants are an easy one for me at least.
Post by: Utah on December 27, 2019, 08:56:04 PM
Look into what you wear going to sleep. I have spent a few winters in AK in the Army and guys who wore lots of clothes in their bags froze at night because they sweat. silk weight long-johns, dry socks, and a beanie cap is all you need.
Yup, a nice warm meal in your belly and at least half of a Thermerest Ridge rest.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 27, 2019, 10:02:29 PM
Night outs or cold fronts.
Post by: dreadi on December 27, 2019, 11:38:36 PM
When it’s in the teens outside, I’m inside a western mountaineering bag that I bought in 2006, on a thermarest pad, in just a long sleeve shirt and boxers.
I like that hot water bottle tip. That’s old school.
Post by: 444Marlin on December 29, 2019, 08:19:25 PM
Some people are just going to be cold when they sleep. Me, I get hot.I have a Western Mountaineering bag that's about 20 years old. 10 degree. THE BEST BAG EVER. And still as warm as the day I bought it. My Feather Friends 20 degree is not as good...probably because of the lack of the draft collar.
When it’s in the teens outside, I’m inside a western mountaineering bag that I bought in 2006, on a thermarest pad, in just a long sleeve shirt and boxers.
I like that hot water bottle tip. That’s old school.
I second the hot bottle.
I'm skeptical of the newer entries to the market on sleeping bags and packs. I just don't think they have the experience like some of the outfits where the designers have more experience of sleeping outside than most of us.
Post by: M_ray on December 29, 2019, 09:57:16 PM
Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!
Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!
:chuckle:
It’s the reason I drink whisky straight ... don’t need any nonsense filling me up! Whisk gets straight to the point with no waste and you’ll sleep all night without getting up!
Post by: 444Marlin on December 30, 2019, 07:27:21 PM
Past a certain age, it doesn't matter what I drink. I'm almost thinking about borrowing my kid's pull-ups.Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!
Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!
:chuckle:
It’s the reason I drink whisky straight ... don’t need any nonsense filling me up! Whisk gets straight to the point with no waste and you’ll sleep all night without getting up!
Post by: Alchase on December 30, 2019, 07:42:20 PM
Post by: Utah on December 30, 2019, 09:45:32 PM
Getting out of a nice warm bag because you have to pee sucks!
Also a good reason to not drink beer in camp and get some sophistication with some Irish!
:chuckle:
It’s the reason I drink whisky straight ... don’t need any nonsense filling me up! Whisk gets straight to the point with no waste and you’ll sleep all night without getting up!
I've no problem pissin in a Gatorade jug inside my bag. Just sayin :)
Post by: MADMAX on December 30, 2019, 09:47:52 PM
Post by: 444Marlin on December 31, 2019, 07:42:38 PM
I was waiting to see if anybody was gonna mention the old P bucketBack in my mountaineering days we used to have 2 bottles each: one for pee and one for drinking. I only mixed them up once! :bdid:
Post by: Jpmiller on December 31, 2019, 08:06:26 PM
I was waiting to see if anybody was gonna mention the old P bucket
The original hot water bottle.
I tried peeing in the bag once but I was so freaked out about spillage I just got up and went outside. It's not a regular enough thing for me to bother learning yet.
Post by: Alchase on December 31, 2019, 09:02:14 PM
LOL
Post by: HikerHunter on January 21, 2020, 11:23:30 AM
excellent thread...
My :twocents: that has been covered, but will reiterate:
My rule of thumb - Take the bags temperature rating to start:
Add 10 degrees to for a true comfort level rating - full baselayer, socks, and hat fully enclosed, draft collar fully closed up. So a 0 degree bag is a 10 degree bag.
Add 10 degrees if you are a woman (no experience with this as i'm not one - just word of mouth).
Add 10 degrees if you are a cold sleeper. Your 0 degree bag is now a 20 degree bag.
That is your baseline to choose your bag rating based on the temperatures you are facing and how much extra weight you want/need to pack in to hit that temperature.
Now it's a game of weight vs cost vs down vs synthetic, i won't get into that.
But to get back to the OP's issue - your bag is really not a 0 degree bag, it's not the bag or company's fault. If you are cold in 10 degrees - you will have to supplement as a sub 10 degree bag is not the most viable on a pack in trip.
My best advice is to get a puffy coat and pant set. Puffy coat, everyone should have. Pants are a good thing to have too as they can serve 2 purposes in the field and at night.
#2 is closed cell foam pad that you can fold up relatively small, which can server as a glassing pad too.
I'm not sure the viability of packing in 2 bags, or heavy wool blankets.
But that's the equation - how much weight do you want to sacrifice for a good nights sleep? Puffy coat and pants are an easy one for me at least.
I think you are right about most of the bags out there, but my western mountaineering rating is spot on. I've heard feathered friends have accurate temp ratings too.
One thing to be careful with when doubling sleeping bags, throwing wool blankets over your bag or even wearing clothes in your bag, if you are compressing your insulation layers, it might make you colder!
Post by: JeffRaines on January 23, 2020, 02:55:49 PM
excellent thread...
My :twocents: that has been covered, but will reiterate:
My rule of thumb - Take the bags temperature rating to start:
Add 10 degrees to for a true comfort level rating - full baselayer, socks, and hat fully enclosed, draft collar fully closed up. So a 0 degree bag is a 10 degree bag.
Add 10 degrees if you are a woman (no experience with this as i'm not one - just word of mouth).
Add 10 degrees if you are a cold sleeper. Your 0 degree bag is now a 20 degree bag.
That is your baseline to choose your bag rating based on the temperatures you are facing and how much extra weight you want/need to pack in to hit that temperature.
Now it's a game of weight vs cost vs down vs synthetic, i won't get into that.
But to get back to the OP's issue - your bag is really not a 0 degree bag, it's not the bag or company's fault. If you are cold in 10 degrees - you will have to supplement as a sub 10 degree bag is not the most viable on a pack in trip.
My best advice is to get a puffy coat and pant set. Puffy coat, everyone should have. Pants are a good thing to have too as they can serve 2 purposes in the field and at night.
#2 is closed cell foam pad that you can fold up relatively small, which can server as a glassing pad too.
I'm not sure the viability of packing in 2 bags, or heavy wool blankets.
But that's the equation - how much weight do you want to sacrifice for a good nights sleep? Puffy coat and pants are an easy one for me at least.
I think you are right about most of the bags out there, but my western mountaineering rating is spot on. I've heard feathered friends have accurate temp ratings too.
One thing to be careful with when doubling sleeping bags, throwing wool blankets over your bag or even wearing clothes in your bag, if you are compressing your insulation layers, it might make you colder!
Yep. Budget bags, and even the mid level bags, this rule applies. The higher end bags(feathered friends, western mountaineering come to mind but there are others) the temp rating is pretty true, if not conservative. Most lower end bags rating are very optimistic... the lower the price, the more optimism they used in the rating. Substitute weight for optimism in some cases.
Post by: Jingles on January 23, 2020, 04:34:49 PM
Get yourself a mannie, ( like the packers use to wrap gear in for packing )if you get the 8 x 8 you can lay it out opened up lay your sleeping bag down close to one edge and fold the remainder over the top of your sleeping bag. have found it adds about 10 to 15 degrees of warmth also protects you from any moisture if you aren't in a tent.
I think the light weight mannies run about $40.00 a pair and the heavy weight run about $35.00 each I get the heavy weight as they last longer when actually used for packing.
Post by: Threewolves on January 26, 2020, 12:47:27 PM
REHJWA, LAMRITH, Rock7, I too am from the strip down school. Also, based on my experience of seven years in the Army in Alaska. NWTC IQC winter and summer, Unit CWI. Lets just say I have camped out a lot in cold weather.
Most likely you are only going to get 6 hours of sold sleep in extreame cold weather anyway. So, what is a person to do? Start off by eating a little something and drinking something hot before you sack out. If you do get cold in your fart sack, do some PT (circulation) in the bag and go back to sleep.
Now, think about this the longer you get into hunting season the more darkness/down time you have. Early archery you have all kinds of day light, you are running yourself ragged hunting. November rifle elk its get dark at 1705 and you can't shoot till 0640 that is a lot of down time. You wake up a little cold, but there is plenty of time to sleep in, again what do you do? Why, you fire up the jet boil in about 2 minutes you are going to have boiling hot water, you can have hot chocolate, or start your morning coffee a little early. And go back to sleep until its time to get up and go hunt. I wish I had a jet boil back in the AK days.
Cherry pick the suggestions, use the ones you like best. Remember comfort is everything, never live hard unless you have to.
Post by: OltHunter on January 26, 2020, 04:21:00 PM
I think you are right about most of the bags out there, but my western mountaineering rating is spot on. I've heard feathered friends have accurate temp ratings too.
One thing to be careful with when doubling sleeping bags, throwing wool blankets over your bag or even wearing clothes in your bag, if you are compressing your insulation layers, it might make you colder!
Yep. Budget bags, and even the mid level bags, this rule applies. The higher end bags(feathered friends, western mountaineering come to mind but there are others) the temp rating is pretty true, if not conservative. Most lower end bags rating are very optimistic... the lower the price, the more optimism they used in the rating. Substitute weight for optimism in some cases.
Very true. General rule of thumb.
Big Agnes, Nemo, and Mountain Hardware are definitely in my rule of thumb bags from my experience. These are not knocks on the bags.
Haven't had any experience with WM or FF but good to know.
Post by: madcow41 on February 20, 2020, 09:08:35 AM