Post by: Birdman668 on November 23, 2019, 07:07:30 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 23, 2019, 07:15:13 PM
Recently got back from a late tag in pearrygin and was unsuccessful. Only ran into a handful of deer both muley and whitetail. Kind of disappointing to say the least and even put in a good effort. What the hell happened to the hunting up there? Did the banner year of 2015 really make the hunting that bad or is it really the wolves running around up there
2015 killed a super high percentage of a herd that was already fraught with struggles. Predators, lack of winter range, OTC hunting have all taken their toll.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on November 24, 2019, 07:43:33 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on November 24, 2019, 08:11:53 AM
All of this together equals a struggling herd that's being continuously hammered on all sides by predators, nature, and man, not allowing it to get its feet back under it. Some day, hopefully.
This used to be the only place we hunted deer. We stopped after 2016. Fogured the 2-3 bucks a year we killed could be better used for making babies. Probably just left them for cougar food though.
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2019, 08:31:56 AM
sidenote, I dont lay too much blame on the bear. I have seen little fluctuation in the population in the last 4 decades. Yes, they are a nail in the coffin, but wolves and cats are through the roof.
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2019, 08:41:05 AM
Post by: bigmacc on November 25, 2019, 10:58:50 AM
Post by: OutHouse on November 25, 2019, 11:01:42 AM
Post by: bigmacc on November 25, 2019, 11:06:51 AM
Does anyone think the whitetail up there are doing okay? They seem to be doing fine, but I completely agree the mule deer herd is in shambles.
I agree, but they basically live and thrive on private stuff and closer to civilization than a migrating mule deer herd does, I also think thats why we are seeing more and more of the "local" mule deer population living closer to people, they are trying to stay clear of predators, just my opinion :tup:
Post by: KP-Skagit on November 25, 2019, 11:29:02 AM
Post by: bigmacc on November 25, 2019, 11:40:43 AM
Saw 5 coyotes cruising the field in the Big Valley Unit south of 20 between Winthrop and Twisp on Saturday. Saw two more up Goat Creek Road. Can't shoot at Big Valley and the ones on the hill didn't give me a chance. 7 coyotes in 20 minutes.
My dad remembered when there was a bounty on these things, kept them in check and it would earn him enough to fund his deer hunting trip every year, once again, management AND politics have changed in this state, unfortunately.
Post by: 2MANY on November 25, 2019, 12:03:43 PM
Post by: dvolmer on November 25, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
Post by: archerykraze on November 25, 2019, 01:11:46 PM
Had this odd hope that with Seattle/King County creating a lawsuit to overturn the 30 dollar car tabs since it was voted out by their region and they feel the rest of the state shouldn't decide how to run their region that other counties would follow suite and vote in hounds and wolf management playing the same card. Just a thought. No reason why the coast should dictate how eastern counties are managed, it's not like they are living with the predators in their backyard.
Post by: 2MANY on November 25, 2019, 01:29:55 PM
Till the hounds are brought back into action and the wolf management plan gets squashed I don't see a change in the current trend. Fish and Game has admitted the litigation for hounds is too deep and the governor wants no more wolves killed. The future of hunting is not looking good in my eyes. This state is run on emotions now and fish and game has forgotten they are there to manage not be wildlife activists.
Had this odd hope that with Seattle/King County creating a lawsuit to overturn the 30 dollar car tabs since it was voted out by their region and they feel the rest of the state shouldn't decide how to run their region that other counties would follow suite and vote in hounds and wolf management playing the same card. Just a thought. No reason why the coast should dictate how eastern counties are managed, it's not like they are living with the predators in their backyard.
Yup couldn't agree more.
Post by: Idabooner on November 26, 2019, 07:19:45 AM
Is there any body on here that remembers the game reserves they used to have? 8 mile, including falls creek was no hunting.
Post by: davew on November 26, 2019, 07:21:43 AM
Post by: boneaddict on November 26, 2019, 07:35:57 AM
I try to stay out of these discussions, but one of the biggest predators is the hunter. Before WW2 almost every hunter had open sights, 150 yard shots were long ones. Then after the war hunters started showing up with scopes on their rifles, fast forward to today, every body has a scope and lot's of them use phones, radios to communicate with their partners. Now they brag about 500 yard shots. So the deer used to have a 350 yard more or less safe zone that they don't have today.
Is there any body on here that remembers the game reserves they used to have? 8 mile, including falls creek was no hunting.
That's a good point. Tools like trail cameras, instant communication, google earth, and this forum even, hasnt helped us in the long run that's for sure.
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 26, 2019, 07:38:12 AM
Post by: MADMAX on November 26, 2019, 07:50:13 AM
and hounds for cats and bears
Post by: NOCK NOCK on November 26, 2019, 08:15:20 AM
I try to stay out of these discussions, but one of the biggest predators is the hunter. Before WW2 almost every hunter had open sights, 150 yard shots were long ones. Then after the war hunters started showing up with scopes on their rifles, fast forward to today, every body has a scope and lot's of them use phones, radios to communicate with their partners. Now they brag about 500 yard shots. So the deer used to have a 350 yard more or less safe zone that they don't have today.
Is there any body on here that remembers the game reserves they used to have? 8 mile, including falls creek was no hunting.
I couldn't agree more.
THE #1 problem is the #1 predator...……...Humans
Post by: 2MANY on November 26, 2019, 09:08:33 AM
Pass laws, lock gates, bring back the 32 Special I grew up with.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 26, 2019, 10:54:06 AM
I try to stay out of these discussions, but one of the biggest predators is the hunter. Before WW2 almost every hunter had open sights, 150 yard shots were long ones. Then after the war hunters started showing up with scopes on their rifles, fast forward to today, every body has a scope and lot's of them use phones, radios to communicate with their partners. Now they brag about 500 yard shots. So the deer used to have a 350 yard more or less safe zone that they don't have today.I wouldn't mind no hunting areas in some places. But then there are those that would not adhere to it I.e. native americans
Is there any body on here that remembers the game reserves they used to have? 8 mile, including falls creek was no hunting.
Post by: archerykraze on November 26, 2019, 11:03:06 AM
Post by: Bango skank on November 26, 2019, 11:35:22 AM
Wanna take the pressure off the big game animals, lose the multi season tags. Archery and Muzzle seasons starting to look like modern crowds. Most hunters wouldn't bother with archery and muzzle if it wasn't for the multi tags. Just a trend I'm seeing.
Id like to see them gone too, or at least greatly reduced.
Post by: KB88 on November 26, 2019, 12:04:51 PM
Post by: 7mmfan on November 26, 2019, 12:27:15 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 26, 2019, 12:37:03 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on November 26, 2019, 12:40:41 PM
Yep...but you start suggesting maybe limits need to be put on hunters and a bunch of people squawk about all the other factors...when in reality, the highest percentage of mortality in many game populations is from hunter harvest. And if we limit the discussion to middle/older age-class bucks/bulls...hunter harvest is really the driver.I try to stay out of these discussions, but one of the biggest predators is the hunter. Before WW2 almost every hunter had open sights, 150 yard shots were long ones. Then after the war hunters started showing up with scopes on their rifles, fast forward to today, every body has a scope and lot's of them use phones, radios to communicate with their partners. Now they brag about 500 yard shots. So the deer used to have a 350 yard more or less safe zone that they don't have today.
Is there any body on here that remembers the game reserves they used to have? 8 mile, including falls creek was no hunting.
I couldn't agree more.
THE #1 problem is the #1 predator...……...Humans
One other point to add - there are a lot of threads complaining about game numbers in a lot of areas across the NW...and frankly, we are now seeing the effects of a hard winter a couple years ago...there's always a delay, but people forget as soon as the snow melts. :twocents:
Post by: buckfvr on November 26, 2019, 01:03:07 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on November 26, 2019, 01:04:42 PM
Wdfw makes way too much $$$ to ever dump multi tags. Think about it, they invest nothing and collect whatever price they put on it. Too easy of a source of income to waste. Sad days we live in
It could be done if alternate funding was supplied. Would have to do the math but,
1. reduce # of available permits, then increase cost of ones left to = same $amount
2. Completely do away with multi, increase all other fees across the board to make up the loss. Guessing this would be a very minor increase if spread out thru all users/fees.
Post by: bigmacc on November 26, 2019, 01:13:24 PM
I try to stay out of these discussions, but one of the biggest predators is the hunter. Before WW2 almost every hunter had open sights, 150 yard shots were long ones. Then after the war hunters started showing up with scopes on their rifles, fast forward to today, every body has a scope and lot's of them use phones, radios to communicate with their partners. Now they brag about 500 yard shots. So the deer used to have a 350 yard more or less safe zone that they don't have today.
Is there any body on here that remembers the game reserves they used to have? 8 mile, including falls creek was no hunting.
I 100% agree with the whole technology part of Idabooners statement here, more and more advantages are being offered to hunters nowadays, I killed my 1st buck with a 6mm with a 4 power weaver scope scope while using a set of 8-35 Sears binos. I do have a better pair of binos nowadays but still use the 4 power scope on a pre 64 270 that was owned by my great grandpa, I don't wear camo, use scent stuff, own a range finder, spotting scope, walkie talkies and I got my first I phone 2 years ago(because my wife made me :chuckle:) but it is not used while hunting except for an emergency, yep, I,m old school and it hasn't hurt my hunting one bit, I,ve killed 56 Methow bucks, 1 every year that I,ve had a license and tag in my pocket and have only taken 2 shots over 300 yards, the only 2 years I haven't killed a buck is the last 2 and thats because I did not buy a tag(my little protest :chuckle:). I AM NOT knocking anyone who does use technology, I,m just agreeing with the point Idabooner was making about how the scale has been tipped for the hunter COMPARED to what it once was....... Yes I also remember my dad talking about the "safety zones" that were set up back in the day to protect those huge migrations, he told me once that he and grandpa went up on 8 mile in a certain spot they knew of, they packed some sandwiches and some apple juice and left their rifles at camp. Huge storm had hit 3 days prior, my dad said they got up into "this spot" at daylight, after about an hour he said you could hear them coming down, walking in the crunchy snow. My dad said they were a mile away at least but in the quietness you could hear them moving there were that many. About 3 hours later my grandpa and my dad had seen over 3000 deer come down that route, dad said it got to the point they couldn't keep counting, he said a few hundred were bucks with many, many real monsters, until the day my dad passed a few years ago, he said it was the biggest migration herd he had ever seen over there. He and grandpa went back to camp with the "report" and they came up with the plan for the next day. They knew of 2 different places these deer would show up once they crossed the Chewuch, they had some family members and some friends go into one of the areas at about 3 hours before daylight and had some other family and friends go into another area, guessing the herd would split when they crossed the river which 9 times out of 10 they did. Once across the river, one route would take some deer a little to the north and east then they would make a right turn and head south, the other route was almost an immediate right turn after crossing the river and maybe traveling just short of a mile going east, once split each route would end up on different parts of the "winter range" over 10 mile apart. My great grandparents had this particular route coming out of 8 mile figured out like clockwork going back to the early 1920,s and knew exactly the areas where the majority would settle in for the winter. Well, by dark everyone had made it back to camp and 27 deer were on the ridge pole(I posted the picture on here a few years ago and pulled it down), my dad was with my mom posted on the 2nd route and said the trail they were watching had about 800 come through with around 150 of those being bucks of all sizes. Later in my dads life (after the North Cascades pass opened in the mid 70,s) when more and more people(and hunters) were discovering the Methow he was actually instrumental with getting a lot of the gates we see nowadays put up. He spent hours and hours in meetings, on rides and in conversation with many different folks from all levels of the Department of Game. He told them that if a lot of these roads were left accessible along with the influx of all the new hunters along with there trailers, motorhomes etc. it was going to be inevitable that traditional migration routes were going to be disrupted by folks with huge "trailer parks" camped within them and deer would absolutely be slaughtered, back then the seasons were still open into the 1st week of November. I told a few stories on here about guys killing bucks from their campfires while siting in lawn chairs sipping on whiskey, while a hundred deer would cross a road less than a hundred yards from them. They started putting up gates a few years later. Many of the gates you see nowadays in the north valley are gates my dad pointed and said"heres a spot that should have one". I am very proud of what my dad did for his beloved Methow mule deer. He caught a lot of flack from "lazy hunters" (he called them) but once he explained things most folks were on board......As far as we as hunters nowadays loosing our seasons to draw only, limited tags, shortened seasons etc. in certain areas, I have always said something needs to be done, I like the every other year idea in some of the "premier" units, based on the odd-even scenario based on the last digit of your wild ID, it immediately cuts the pressure in half within those units. Cut out all doe tags, multi season tags and late hunts within those units but also open those units to 2 weeks again for those who get to hunt them that year, always ending on the 31st of October. Speaking for myself, I would be willing to pay extra for my lic. and tag that year I was able to hunt that particular "premier unit" because I know I would be seeing quality animals with half the people. That being said, I don't think we as hunters should go along with any cutbacks unless the predator issues are addressed and something is done to decrease the problem, I think it should be a "partnership" and a little give and take from each side, hunters and WDFW, both should work together. There I go again, I still remember the Department of Game :bash:
Post by: buckfvr on November 26, 2019, 01:46:45 PM
WDFW needs to quit managing people and their money, and focus on managing wildlife correctly......scientifically.......not politically.
Post by: mountainman on November 26, 2019, 02:00:06 PM
I agree they should be gone as well. I also think it contributes to "slob" hunting, people hunting with a method they arent proficient with. I hate to take away opportunity, but on the flip, using archery or muzzel used to be away to avoid the crowd possibly having a better hunting experience. I also agree I dont see them losing the cashI remember when you could hunt all 3 seasons without a special permit..
Post by: buckfvr on November 26, 2019, 02:07:16 PM
[/quote]
I remember when you could hunt all 3 seasons without a special permit..
[/quote]
There is that also.........sure seems like current wdfw management practices cram too many folks into small windows of opportunity with low likelyhood of success.
Post by: bigmacc on November 26, 2019, 02:08:52 PM
People.......not just hunters ruined the Methow, same as most other winter ranges across the west.
WDFW needs to quit managing people and their money, and focus on managing wildlife correctly......scientifically.......not politically.
Been saying that for years, 1975 is when it slowly started, can't tell you how many out of state/anti hunting folks have set up shop here, most, not all but most of the "old guard" has left us or moved out. As far as "managing wildlife correctly", I,m afraid that won't happen unless they form a Department of Game again, that their number one priority is our "Game" which I don't ever see happening because of this states politics, unfortunately I think all we can hope for is to find some middle ground and have some give and take from both sides to try to improve hunting and opportunity, I don't agree that we should give up everything as hunters, this predator issue(especially cougars and bears) needs to be addressed and addressed aggressively, especially in areas that populations are booming and they have made obvious dents in game herds(I am only talking Methow here, thats what the topic is), as far as wolves, unless something is addressed about their growing numbers and territory in the Methow by the WDFW I,m afraid this could be the final nail. I told it here a month or so ago, we seen a ton of UCARS(white rigs with UCAR decals on the side) going up and down the north valley this year, they were traveling in 2-3 rig convoys, we were told they were in charge of checking traps etc., we ran into numerous signs(some 3-4 miles in) telling folks to keep their dogs on leash, "traps were set in the area that attracts canines"....HMMM, boy they sure take care of them, like I said, the deer herd has slid way down the ladder as far as priorities.
Post by: boneaddict on November 26, 2019, 02:12:17 PM
I agree they should be gone as well. I also think it contributes to "slob" hunting, people hunting with a method they arent proficient with. I hate to take away opportunity, but on the flip, using archery or muzzel used to be away to avoid the crowd possibly having a better hunting experience. I also agree I dont see them losing the cashI remember when you could hunt all 3 seasons without a special permit..
I know, I remember being excited when we got that opportunity back. The herd has slid several rungs down the ladder since then
Post by: bigmacc on November 26, 2019, 05:13:04 PM
Just a little add on to the story I shared up above about one of the migration routes we know of. There are actually a few different staging areas in this turf, all at different elevations, up until 25 or so years ago I remember going into these staging areas and seeing hundreds of deer just milling around, one area would be full of does and small yearlings, another would have some small bucks and does and another area would have bigger bucks and does, it truly was something to see. After a few days(depending on weather) they would all eventually meet and form a huge herd that was on the move to get from point A to point B. I believe it was in the early 70,s :dunno: when my dad and I went into these areas and counted around 900 during the 2nd week of November, the weather had been spitting and sputtering for a few days but nothing to really kick them in the butt and bunch them up to move out. The season had already ended and we were just there to do our counts. About a day or two later the weather turned and a cold, cold wind came out of the Frazier in Canada, the temps dropped to below zero but no snow. My dad said we would go a little farther north and hike into a different route that brought deer in from Canada, he said they would be on the move before the others but he said in about 2 days we would go to a spot by the river and he predicted there would be something that would be very rare to see and something I would never forget, he said these 2 different groups were "going to have a collision" right in a particular spot of the Chewuch river. We went up north (about 16-17 miles and sure as could be we ran into about 700 head that were just strolling, we watched them for about 2 hours and then hiked back out. My dad said the herds in the staging areas that we had already found were going to start bunching up and would probably be moving within the next day or two and he had it pin pointed where the "wreck" was going to happen. A couple days later we were purched on a rock bluff looking down at the river about 400 yards below us, we watched for a few hours, nothing. My dad said "It'll happen by noon, if not, you can sue me" :chuckle:. Well about eleven or eleven thirty(all I know it was before noon) we spotted the 8 mile herd working its way down a little ridge counted it at around 950, about 10 minutes later we seen the Canadiens moving in from the north, we actually counted them at around 500(we figured some had split off and took another route). We watched as both herds got real nervous as they got closer and closer, it was actually 2-3 hours before they all hit that spot at the river, bunched up together and crossed the Chewuch to go on their way to the winter range, it really was something to see and I only seen it that one time. My dad knew exactly where those herds would cross and the miles and miles and days each herd had to get to that spot was a long shot to predict to say the least, well he missed it by a couple hours, I didn't sue him but was impressed to say the least :chuckle:. We still go into these "areas" but nothing or the numbers have been seen like that since, the most we have seen was a couple hundred or so back in the 90,s and it has gotten worse every year since. Seeing triple digit head counts in these migration routes nowadays is unheard of. Once again, I feel very blessed and fortunate to have experienced what I have but with that comes the sadness I feel for what it has become.
Post by: boneaddict on November 26, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
Post by: mossback91 on November 26, 2019, 05:36:38 PM
Post by: bigmacc on November 26, 2019, 05:44:25 PM
That would have been amazing.
It really was bone, I had goosebumps just typing it. It was a treat to see and it was a treat watching and listening to my dad figuring the whole ordeal out, he really was an amazing "deer man" and he really cared about that herd.
Post by: no.cen.wa on November 26, 2019, 09:47:23 PM
Thanks again,
John G
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 27, 2019, 05:15:04 AM
That would have been amazing.Yea and in the same token disappointing that it has come to this!!
Post by: boneaddict on November 27, 2019, 06:36:43 AM
Post by: huntnnw on November 27, 2019, 06:46:29 AM
I always dreamed of drawing the pearrygin late tag.....haven’t put in for it in years now sadly. Sad to see the decline in deer even in the years I hunted as I’m a lot younger than many posting on here. I truly believe social media has impacted these hunting areas also....see more and more people show up in areas that there was hardly ever another soul besides myself. I wouldn’t mind seeing many of the mule deer units going to draw only hunts.
as much as the general season guys would push back on this its what needs to be done to start trying to save some deer.
Post by: archerykraze on November 27, 2019, 08:32:14 AM
Here is an interesting link about cougars in WA. You can see the downfall in WA management of the species as it went from being paid a bounty until 1961 then reclassified to a predator in 1966. 1996 we lost the use of hounds except in Ferry, Okanagon, Chelan, Pend Oreille, Klickitat and Stevens until being banned statewide in 2011. Since then quotas per region have been cut and harvest cut to 1 cat per hunter. Even with an estimate of 2100 cats in the state killing a deer every 9-12 days (we'll say 3/month) comes out to around 75,600 deer a year on a guesstimate. Heard a biologist 5 years ago tell me he predicts of at least approximately 140 cats running the ridgelines from Tonasket to Vulcan (Ferry County border to Canada) which would approximate some 5040 deer a year when hunter harvest in those GMU's 204/101 were 776 and 691 so total 1467 deer antlered and antlerless. This is all speculation from my end but we can all agree cat sightings have soared in the last 10 years including residential areas as competition increases. We aren't even including the idea of black bear, coyotes and wolves which is insane. Yes, hunters could make some cuts to help the cause but I'm seeing changes to the management of predators being the savior of our game herds. Sorry for the rant but this state is driving me nuts on how we have let this happen. My :twocents:. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, we all know word of mouth aint always true and I'm kind of a numbers guy.
Post by: Katmai Guy on November 27, 2019, 09:37:49 AM
Post by: boneaddict on November 27, 2019, 09:42:24 AM
Post by: buckfvr on November 27, 2019, 09:49:28 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 27, 2019, 11:12:40 AM
Post by: buckfvr on November 27, 2019, 11:24:24 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on November 27, 2019, 12:36:21 PM
It would be nice if the WDFW would present some of these facts about herd impacts of each initiative that is to be voted on, to the public prior to election day. Maybe some of King county residents would vote differently knowing that eliminating hound hunting, bear baiting, or wolf introduction will result in other undesirable results. Pipe dream?
Yep. Because most of them don't really care about the animals, they care about us killing them. To many of them, man has no right to hunt them, so the more predators there are to kill prey, means less for us hunters to pursue, eventually forcing us out of the game entirely.
Post by: Bango skank on November 27, 2019, 12:40:01 PM
It would be nice if the WDFW would present some of these facts about herd impacts of each initiative that is to be voted on, to the public prior to election day. Maybe some of King county residents would vote differently knowing that eliminating hound hunting, bear baiting, or wolf introduction will result in other undesirable results. Pipe dream?
Yep. Because most of them don't really care about the animals, they care about us killing them. To many of them, man has no right to hunt them, so the more predators there are to kill prey, means less for us hunters to pursue, eventually forcing us out of the game entirely.
Predator hunting is the game now. When prey is scarce, predators kill competition whenever theyre able. Why should we be any different? As soon as this thanksgiving weekend is over ill be out calling, hoping to bring home a lion if im fortunate and hopefully pile up a few dogs in the process.
Post by: ghosthunter on November 27, 2019, 05:43:06 PM
No doe tags
No multi season
No youth any deer ever.
Pick westside or east not both
Whitetail or mule not both.
No non resident Mule deer tags.
I would be against draw only because it would kill the family deer camps.
Post by: Bango skank on November 27, 2019, 05:49:51 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on November 27, 2019, 06:06:29 PM
Are non resident hunters really an issue? Hard to imagine non residents ponying up the cash to come hunt muleys here. The cost of non res tags and the crap hunting opportunity just seems like it would discourage people from coming here. Better opportunity and lower cost for non res in other states. Cant be that many out of staters coming to hunt deer here i wouldnt think.https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/
You most likely are right.
So why have them? One is too many in a state with population growth like ours.
Cut out all the extra stuff and get back to one deer ,one opportunity , per resident hunter.
And I will add get rid of point restrictions. Many young bucks are killed and left laying in the field. It has been documented in every state around us. And it happens a lot here.
https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/
Post by: Bango skank on November 27, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 27, 2019, 07:04:14 PM
Post by: bigmacc on November 27, 2019, 08:27:44 PM
I remember when some bios I knew that covered this valley actually considered the deer "their kids", I am not making this up. I am sorry for some of the folks that I know nowadays that work for the WDFW(I don't call them the Game Department because they are far from that) because some are very good people who agree with what many of us are saying about the Methow.
Post by: Bango skank on November 27, 2019, 09:27:58 PM
Like i said, a "3 up" rule would likely solve the bulk of that crap. You dont think people are shooting forkies thinking, or even just hoping, that theyll have an inch long browtine? 3 pt minimum but browtines dont count i think would be the way to go.
Post by: ghosthunter on November 27, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
" we have found many wounded and dead 2 points, probably more than 20 over the last 10 years alone, some with arrows stuck in them and some with bullet holes, doesn't matter, they were dead deer in the end that should not have been. "
Like i said, a "3 up" rule would likely solve the bulk of that crap. You dont think people are shooting forkies thinking, or even just hoping, that theyll have an inch long browtine? 3 pt minimum but browtines dont count i think would be the way to go.
We don’t like to think it. But I think there is a lot of pulling the trigger on anthers brow tines or not.
I saw five illegally deer heads in a agents truck. Four of them were not even close to having three points and no brow tines. One was a spike. That was how many he picked up in a couple days. The 5 th one was three point shot on private land from across a Hwy.
So ya hunters might be a big part of the problem. But those deer would have been tagged without a point restriction. I know a guy who killed a 2 pt. Called it in got a $150.00 ticket and went on to kill a 3 point. Not right either.
Post by: hunter399 on November 28, 2019, 06:59:25 AM
Certain gmu's need 4pt min whitetail or muley.
Certain gmu's need no doe permits,second deer permits.
no mule deer doe in the state should be harvested.
Bring back youth,disabled,65 over ,doe tags. Whitetail.
No doe tag for bow hunters,muzzy hunters unless ,youth,disabled,65 over.
Chose which side of the state You hunt deer on .
Or set blacktail seasons same as east side of state.
Multiseason not valid for norteast Washington.
With all this said .
I'm sure most would disagree on multiple options I posted.
We want to keep sustainable populations,with opportunities
For youth,disabled,65 over.Which is the future of hunting.
There has been a huge increase in people all over the state coming to NE Washington to hunt.I don't have a problem with .But sustainable populations must happen.
Any deer permits should be gone state wide.Your permit should say whitetail,mule deer,or blacktail,to keep a controll on what does are being harvested.And there should never be any doe permits for NE Washington.only youth,disabled,65 over ,is enough doe harvest to keep numbers in check.
I think WDFW uses NE Washington as a cash cow ,which is fine.But biologist,ect.don't have a clue as to what's going on.
Run the cash cow , But need more restrictions to keep populations where they need to be .
And yes predators are having a huge effect.Which is out of hunters control some what.so some simple restrictions could put less pressure on deer and elk.
I do a lot of walking behind gates ,closed road areas,ect.And I will see more tracks,animals,deer and elk in the first mile or two then let's say five miles back ,no tracks , no deer.
Deer and elk have moved down to more rural areas staying closer to people then I have ever seen.THERE IS A REASON.
It's always been the farther back you get the better hunting,Well the game has changed now it's total opposite.
I still believe NE Washington could be a great place to hunt ,maybe the best in the state .But if we don't get restrictions we need .It will become a $hi# hole that has already started.
I do think winter kill off is greater now then years ago, deer have so much pressure from all sides that there just killing off every winter .
Post by: SCRUBS on November 28, 2019, 07:52:13 AM
One of the frustrations has been that they haven't seemed to recognize the problem. If you read Fitkins annual fall article, you'd have thought hunting in the Methow Valley was gangbusters and the herd was up to snuff. I didn't catch this years version ..... I figured it was part of the wolf campaign :dunno:
I`m not sure if it is they don`t recognize it, or are they just ignoring it but, either way something should be done.
Post by: boneaddict on November 28, 2019, 09:16:46 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 28, 2019, 11:09:50 AM
In the earlier years, WDFW was an agency who's main focus was managing the health of our states fish and wildlife. These days it's all about making money, while true fish and wildlife management gets the cold shoulder. I see no light at the end the tunnel until the swamp is completely drained and we bring back common sense management strategies which focus primarily on what's best for OUR fish and wildlife, not the state's pockets. :twocents:
Post by: buckfvr on November 28, 2019, 11:34:02 AM
Restrictions should only follow failed genuine serious attempts to control predators, starting with changing their status from big game animals to predators, and then being hunted aggressively as such.
Im now 65 and never in my life has anyone gave a rats ass if I was ever able to kill a deer......I dont want a doe and I dont want a baby buck and neither does any of the guys I hunt with. We all demand the 4pt minimum back, and are continueing to fight for it. Youth any buck is the only concession to consider for me.
I just cant get totally on board with voluntary concessions (no multi season, every other year, etc.) when we should be demanding predator control and other options that dont take away hunting opportunity. By that I mean we still get to hunt, but what we hunt can be limited to 4pt or better for whitetail, no does, etc., we get to hunt but succes may be more difficult until we see the returns of limiting ourselves and making a valiant effort to control ALL predators.
These are just my thoughts and are not intended to do anything other than provide another perspective. It is by no means an effort to affront any other hunters or user groups, just ideas like everyone elses. R
Post by: ghosthunter on November 28, 2019, 12:05:29 PM
They told me they wrote 43 tickets for adults shooting youth deer just in two areas.. Youth any buck is a joke.
If you want that have youth draw only ,separate season, easier to police.
Post by: buckfvr on November 28, 2019, 12:48:57 PM
The last time they had a youth any buck in the Okanagan 80% or more of the deer were shot by the adults not the youth. One game agent told me he and a partner would separate adult and kid and the kid would rat out dad every time.
They told me they wrote 43 tickets for adults shooting youth deer just in two areas.. Youth any buck is a joke.
If you want that have youth draw only ,separate season, easier to police.
:tup: :tup: :tup: 100% agree
Post by: boneaddict on November 28, 2019, 12:55:36 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on November 28, 2019, 01:00:58 PM
A women in the field is 10 times better for hunting or shooting sports than a man.
They are better at networking with others.
More vocal about the issues they care about.
And in many relationships they call the shots. Even as far as saying if kids get to hunt or husbands.
Bringing a women into hunting goes a long way in preserving the shooting sports.
I would support a first deer women season.
Post by: ghosthunter on November 28, 2019, 01:01:32 PM
THere doesnt need to be special youth. I'm sure I'll ruffle feathers but......they can learn to hunt like the rest of us did. I'd also pull the senior hunts because the herd needs to be managed.
:tup:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 28, 2019, 01:03:54 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 28, 2019, 01:20:18 PM
Post by: bigmacc on November 28, 2019, 01:38:42 PM
Mtn Muley pretty much answered that.... not,until,the swamp is drained and that one guy in charge steps down.
Absolutely.
Post by: huntnphool on November 28, 2019, 03:12:54 PM
There's a lot of factors leading to where we are at these days. They've all been hashed out on here many times. While winters, fires, and predators play huge roles, one of the most important factor often gets overlooked by some. Mismanagement. WDFW has relied on one individual for many of the management strategies in the area and he's done beyond a terrible job.
In the earlier years, WDFW was an agency who's main focus was managing the health of our states fish and wildlife. These days it's all about making money, while true fish and wildlife management gets the cold shoulder. I see no light at the end the tunnel until the swamp is completely drained and we bring back common sense management strategies which focus primarily on what's best for OUR fish and wildlife, not the state's pockets. :twocents:
Amen!
Post by: hunter399 on November 28, 2019, 05:19:29 PM
I do not agree 65 and over and disabled are the future.........youth, yes. No doe permits period until herds rebound. Youth, any buck. The only acknowledgement wdfw made in regards to herd health was the suspension of doe hunts in n. e. wa.I'm not totally disagreed with ya.
Restrictions should only follow failed genuine serious attempts to control predators, starting with changing their status from big game animals to predators, and then being hunted aggressively as such.
Im now 65 and never in my life has anyone gave a rats ass if I was ever able to kill a deer......I dont want a doe and I dont want a baby buck and neither does any of the guys I hunt with. We all demand the 4pt minimum back, and are continueing to fight for it. Youth any buck is the only concession to consider for me.
I just cant get totally on board with voluntary concessions (no multi season, every other year, etc.) when we should be demanding predator control and other options that dont take away hunting opportunity. By that I mean we still get to hunt, but what we hunt can be limited to 4pt or better for whitetail, no does, etc., we get to hunt but succes may be more difficult until we see the returns of limiting ourselves and making a valiant effort to control ALL predators.
These are just my thoughts and are not intended to do anything other than provide another perspective. It is by no means an effort to affront any other hunters or user groups, just ideas like everyone elses. R
I would also like to see the no doe harvest continue in NE Washington.but after the pocket book got hit hard this year I'm almost sure we will see some kind of changes.
I'm also a big supporter of 4pt min it was doing great things,and still could.
One problem with the predators is people will come from all corners of the state to hunt deer,but won't come to NE Washington to hunt predators.So choose which side of the state your gonna hunt deer on would help with this.
I know most of what I have said is not all about mule deer.
No doe harvest at all for mule deer.Statewide.
Choose which side of state to hunt deer also helps mule deer , So many hunt mule deer than go home to hunt blacktail or whitetail later seasons.
A 4pt min for mule deer.This also helps people shooting forky mule deer cause there not gonna magically grow 4pts.
I seen taking away multiseason not a real option but all the deer herds have been reduced since it started.a lot of people say management was better 30 years ago , but you have to look at the changes.years ago you got one season ,not three.
I do agree WDFW just wants to make money.
But at the end of the day should take a look at other states like Montana,idaho,they make tons of money .you actually make more money when people have animals to hunt.and take some notes on predator mangement.
Post by: bigmacc on November 28, 2019, 06:25:20 PM
Post by: Bango skank on November 28, 2019, 07:38:59 PM
Post by: MADMAX on November 28, 2019, 09:03:25 PM
I wonder if they are engaged in solutions and rebuilding efforts in regards to the loss of this historic herd
Post by: buckfvr on November 28, 2019, 09:16:23 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 29, 2019, 03:05:42 AM
Post by: bigmacc on November 29, 2019, 07:58:10 AM
Twitter range occupied by people is not as big of an issue as you think they adapt. It's not like a bunch of houses are being built on deer winter or migratory range.
:yeah:....They do adapt, IMHO houses or people are close to the bottom of the list for what has contributed to the decline of the Methow herd, heck we have seen muley bucks laying on peoples patio furniture and on porches!, told that story awhile ago, some of those big migrations of the past, well, we seen many of them weaving in and out of farm equipment, shops, barns and parked cars once they would get close to civilization, seen a herd of around 500 come down Cub one year back in the 70,s walking right through peoples yards and strolling down driveways, didn't bother them a bit, they were on a mission to get to the bottom, cross the river and head south. During a few real cold winters there were times there were dozens of deer congregated around compressors behind some of the businesses in Winthrop to warm up a little. Pretty adaptable animals when it comes to that kind of stuff and when they need to be. Heck, I guess you could say nowadays a lot of those houses and private property may actually be helping save some deer, thats where they all seem to be congregating to escape predators.
Post by: boneaddict on November 29, 2019, 08:03:27 AM
There is winter range that is unburnt and no houses and still no deer.
Post by: bigmacc on November 29, 2019, 08:05:38 AM
If I were to drive to the Methow today to look for a big buck, the place I'd most likely find one is next to a house on private land, mostly as its the only game reserve in the area where they wont get shot. Its the most protected from poachers and wolves might be discouraged a little from eating in the front lawn. The latter will be less effective as their food source dwindles and their only option is to eat next to the pink flamingo or garden gnome.
There is winter range that is unburnt and no houses and still no deer.
:yeah:: :tup: :tup: