Post by: Cab on December 12, 2019, 09:41:28 AM
Clint Smith is about as no non-sense as it gets and certainly makes the case for why you should use a rifle for self defense. I love that he is so focused on basics rather than shooting that looks impressive like a John Wick movie. I am certainly going to be following this series.
Post by: Timberstalker on December 12, 2019, 09:47:02 AM
That's my armchair QB response.
Post by: Cab on December 12, 2019, 09:49:59 AM
I haven't watched the video. If we are talking long guns for self defense, it is hard to argue a shotgun with buckshot.
That's my armchair QB response.
Agreed, shotguns are great and with buckshot very effective. I am much more of a fan of a long gun for home defense than a pistol but that's my personal preference.
Post by: Alchase on December 12, 2019, 11:06:13 AM
I figure I will not know when or where I will be in the house when the time comes to need a weapon, so I make my defense weapons readily available, but well hidden.
Post by: Cab on December 12, 2019, 11:12:56 AM
I use a "layered" defense plan that includes all three. I have shotguns and ARs in a quick to reach locations, and handguns stashed in strategic spots as well.
I figure I will not know when or where I will be in the house when the time comes to need a weapon, so I make my defense weapons readily available, but well hidden.
https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com/2019/07/man-uses-shower-gun-after-burglar-breaks-in-while-hes-in-the-shower/ (https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com/2019/07/man-uses-shower-gun-after-burglar-breaks-in-while-hes-in-the-shower/) always smart idea, not sure if I need a shower gun but wouldn't mind one :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 12, 2019, 11:18:35 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on December 12, 2019, 11:25:44 AM
With my buckshot handloads it would be twenty 30 caliber balls per trigger pull. 16 shot capacity. So potentially 160 of 30 caliber balls going down range in an incident. If I need a fast reload after that, I'm screwed anyway.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 12, 2019, 11:28:27 AM
Post by: 2MANY on December 12, 2019, 11:32:40 AM
Everyone knows those Foodsaver bags suck!!!
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 12, 2019, 11:33:47 AM
Post by: Cab on December 12, 2019, 01:36:50 PM
I'd rather have this than an AR15. https://stdgun.com/dp-12-double-barrel-pump-shotgun-with-the-works-2/
With my buckshot handloads it would be twenty 30 caliber balls per trigger pull. 16 shot capacity. So potentially 160 of 30 caliber balls going down range in an incident. If I need a fast reload after that, I'm screwed anyway.
my god I think I'm in love :drool:
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 12, 2019, 01:43:01 PM
Post by: Curly on December 12, 2019, 01:43:23 PM
That is a horrible idea.
Everyone knows those Foodsaver bags suck!!!
Works good in this case cuz it makes it easier to open since you may have soap on your hands and you are probably without a knife for opening that sucker..... :twocents:
Post by: CaNINE on December 12, 2019, 02:38:14 PM
Post by: b23 on December 12, 2019, 02:54:14 PM
What specific bullet would you guys recommend in an AR for home defense? Varmint type bullet?
Maybe something like Hornady's Critical Defense ammo or one of these others.
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/12/20/ar-15-ammo-for-home-defense-what-should-you-use/
Post by: Brushcrawler on December 12, 2019, 04:27:31 PM
Post by: Cab on December 12, 2019, 04:34:09 PM
That is a solid video. I like that guy!
No BS just straight facts. I love his passion it what makes the video that amazing
Post by: cbond3318 on December 12, 2019, 04:48:52 PM
It’s 12g B Shot for me and my home.
Post by: ghosthunter on December 12, 2019, 05:55:36 PM
My tact home defense guns are, KSG, Bonds, and a SVE smith with 16 + mag.
Post by: kselkhunter on December 12, 2019, 06:14:18 PM
I am also a layer guy. But no black rifle for me never got the bug for one.
My tact home defense guns are, KSG, Bonds, and a SVE smith with 16 + mag.
How do you like your KSG? I'm going between that and the DP-12 that I posted up thread. I've read of KSG jamming issues. Just curious (sorry op, don't mean to jack your thread).
Post by: Alchase on December 12, 2019, 07:33:08 PM
What specific bullet would you guys recommend in an AR for home defense? Varmint type bullet?
Lots of good ammo available. And as long as you are not running solids or penetrators tips you should be good to go.
Speer Gold Dot 55gr., Black Hills TSX, and my current (because I got a killer bulk deal) Winchester PDX1 Defenders.
I have Sig Elite Match that I keep loaded up as well.
Post by: ghosthunter on December 12, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
I am also a layer guy. But no black rifle for me never got the bug for one.
My tact home defense guns are, KSG, Bonds, and a SVE smith with 16 + mag.
How do you like your KSG? I'm going between that and the DP-12 that I posted up thread. I've read of KSG jamming issues. Just curious (sorry op, don't mean to jack your thread).
Pm sent
Post by: fowl smacker on December 12, 2019, 09:01:13 PM
One more reason to have a razor in your shower.That is a horrible idea.
Everyone knows those Foodsaver bags suck!!!
Works good in this case cuz it makes it easier to open since you may have soap on your hands and you are probably without a knife for opening that sucker..... :twocents:
Post by: jrebel on December 12, 2019, 09:20:18 PM
Most important message I took from this video is practice and get your mind right. It should be easy if the time ever comes. :tup:
Post by: Alchase on December 12, 2019, 09:43:41 PM
I may have taken it to excess in some mindsets. But it works for me. It is easy to over think self/home defense.
My friends that hunt and shoot understand the extent I go to cover most scenarios I can think of. A couple of my more liberal sisters, would think differently if they knew there was a
XD mounted under the living room coffee table or that those full length mirrors throughout the house held secrets.
LOL
Post by: huntnphool on December 12, 2019, 11:21:44 PM
FiveseveN handgun rounds do go through body armor though. :twocents:
Post by: Cab on December 13, 2019, 02:26:31 PM
Post by: konradcountry on December 16, 2019, 06:46:32 PM
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
Post by: Cougartail on December 16, 2019, 06:59:24 PM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Post by: KFhunter on December 16, 2019, 08:07:31 PM
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 16, 2019, 08:38:41 PM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
But if not it helps to be damn good with a handgun...
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 12:01:25 AM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW
Post by: jasnt on December 17, 2019, 05:20:41 AM
Where I live you could have an all out firefight and no one would even blink an eye. No one would call the cops for you. They’d be like there he goes sighting in his night vision again, or hope he got that stinking coyote.
Post by: syoungs on December 17, 2019, 06:07:08 AM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW
https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/crime/article226545950.html
Post by: syoungs on December 17, 2019, 06:07:53 AM
https://keprtv.com/news/local/watch-new-footage-released-from-pasco-gun-fight
less then 1 minute of google shows these 3 links. 2 in Benton county, 1 across the river in franklin county.
Post by: AROTTY on December 17, 2019, 07:12:02 AM
1. 5.56 or 223 will penetrate less layers of drywall than a pistol bullet or buckshot.
2. I can put more accurate rounds on target quicker with my AR.
3. 5.56 is more likely to kill or incapacitate with a hit.
As far as what rounds it depends. If you want to defeat most armor than good M193 is the way to go. It will also fragment pretty reliably. Non armor 75-77 grain OTM bullets shine. For a good combo that will give barrier and glass penetration than gold dot, fusion or Barnes in the 64 grain are very good(what most PDs use).
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 07:36:55 AM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW
What is the point in preparing against a home invasion? To be able to repel an attack and protect you and your family. You're correct that most people will never experience a home invasion or get into a gun fight and yet, you're still prepared with your handgun and flashlight. Why, if you think it's so unlikely? Your handgun may be plenty if your home invasion will only involve one intruder. However, a vast majority of home invasions include multiple attackers. How many cartridges does your handgun hold? 7, 10, 13? What happens when you're confronted with multiple armed attackers? Did you remember to grab your spare mag when you jumped out of bed and grabbed your handgun? Likely not. Even if the criminals all have only 7- 13 rounds each, you're outgunned. An AR solves these issues.
I don't ever expect to use any of my firearms in self defense and likely won't. But don't confuse my expectations with my preparedness. When I prepare for a home invasion, I prepare to have superior firepower and training. If three criminals come through my door, they will be met with overwhelming resistance.
Post by: 2MANY on December 17, 2019, 07:46:42 AM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW
What is the point in preparing against a home invasion? To be able to repel an attack and protect you and your family. You're correct that most people will never experience a home invasion or get into a gun fight and yet, you're still prepared with your handgun and flashlight. Why, if you think it's so unlikely? Your handgun may be plenty if your home invasion will only involve one intruder. However, a vast majority of home invasions include multiple attackers. How many cartridges does your handgun hold? 7, 10, 13? What happens when you're confronted with multiple armed attackers? Did you remember to grab your spare mag when you jumped out of bed and grabbed your handgun? Likely not. Even if the criminals all have only 7- 13 rounds each, you're outgunned. An AR solves these issues.
I don't ever expect to use any of my firearms in self defense and likely won't. But don't confuse my expectations with my preparedness. When I prepare for a home invasion, I prepare to have superior firepower and training. If three criminals come through my door, they will be met with overwhelming resistance.
That's all fine and well but what color will you repaint your walls?
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 07:56:13 AM
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 08:41:07 AM
What is the point in preparing against a home invasion? To be able to repel an attack and protect you and your family. You're correct that most people will never experience a home invasion or get into a gun fight and yet, you're still prepared with your handgun and flashlight. Why, if you think it's so unlikely?
Because there are two difference scenarios here:
1. Using a gun to investigate or discourage a threat
2. Using a gun in a gunfight with home invaders
Scenario #2 is extremely unlikely to where you might as well prepare to be struck by lightening.
A handgun is more useful for the far more common scenario #1. It is more portable for clearing rooms and you can stick it in your pocket quickly if you need to talk to someone without alerting them. I have had to do this.
Even if the criminals all have only 7- 13 rounds each, you're outgunned. An AR solves these issues.
Why are three criminals sticking around for a gunfight? This was a random robbery? Unless you deal drugs or live in a bad neighborhood this is simply unrealistic. Criminals aren't going to stick around for a 3 man gunfight just to get your wife's jewelry. Shoot one and the other two will retreat.
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 08:48:24 AM
https://www.610kona.com/two-injured-in-richland-shooting-early-monday-morning/
https://keprtv.com/news/local/watch-new-footage-released-from-pasco-gun-fight
less then 1 minute of google shows these 3 links. 2 in Benton county, 1 across the river in franklin county.
Not home invasions.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 08:58:13 AM
What is the point in preparing against a home invasion? To be able to repel an attack and protect you and your family. You're correct that most people will never experience a home invasion or get into a gun fight and yet, you're still prepared with your handgun and flashlight. Why, if you think it's so unlikely?
Because there are two difference scenarios here:
1. Using a gun to investigate or discourage a threat
2. Using a gun in a gunfight with home invaders
Scenario #2 is extremely unlikely to where you might as well prepare to be struck by lightening.
A handgun is more useful for the far more common scenario #1. It is more portable for clearing rooms and you can stick it in your pocket quickly if you need to talk to someone without alerting them. I have had to do this.
Even if the criminals all have only 7- 13 rounds each, you're outgunned. An AR solves these issues.
Why are three criminals sticking around for a gunfight? This was a random robbery? Unless you deal drugs or live in a bad neighborhood this is simply unrealistic. Criminals aren't going to stick around for a 3 man gunfight just to get your wife's jewelry. Shoot one and the other two will retreat.
Really? You've actually stuck your gun in your pocket with an intruder in your house so you could talk to them? :chuckle: Sure. I'm not talking to anyone. If you're an intruder in my house, you're either going to die or leave with a blood trail. Good luck to you. :tup:
Post by: Cab on December 17, 2019, 09:03:19 AM
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 09:24:07 AM
Really? You've actually stuck your gun in your pocket with an intruder in your house so you could talk to them? :chuckle: Sure. I'm not talking to anyone. If you're an intruder in my house, you're either going to die or leave with a blood trail. Good luck to you. :tup:
I had someone bang on my door and yell in the middle of the night. Turned out to be some drunk with the wrong address.
If you want to answer the door everytime in body amor and an AK-47 then be my guest.
I know however that living in the burbs means it is probably some teenager or drunk and I'd rather try to keep the peace.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 09:31:00 AM
Really? You've actually stuck your gun in your pocket with an intruder in your house so you could talk to them? :chuckle: Sure. I'm not talking to anyone. If you're an intruder in my house, you're either going to die or leave with a blood trail. Good luck to you. :tup:
I had someone bang on my door and yell in the middle of the night. Turned out to be some drunk with the wrong address.
If you want to answer the door everytime in body amor and an AK-47 then be my guest.
I know however that living in the burbs means it is probably some teenager or drunk and I'd rather try to keep the peace.
We were talking about intruders and effective close combat weapons, not a knock on the door. I do answer the door from behind the lock with a pistol within reach. Responding to someone who's inside is a different story.
Post by: Cougartail on December 17, 2019, 10:01:58 AM
The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW
I never planned on getting in a gun fight with anyone. When 4 drug dealing gang bangers tried to kill me because I evicted their buddy from a rental and told him he owes me money for damages caused by a grow operation I got an education on realities of gun fights.
You have no idea what "Methed out" criminals will do. The 96 year old great grandma who got a hammer to the head in Yakima found out what a home burglar will do along with 2 others.
You need to get a reality check and go see Clint Smith. It's always amazing how after the fact you get such clarity of realities.
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2019, 10:35:35 AM
Did you remember to grab your spare mag when you jumped out of bed and grabbed your handgun? Likely not. Even if the criminals all have only 7- 13 rounds each, you're outgunned. An AR solves these issues.The guy watches too much tv.
Home invasions in Washington and Oregon are extremely rare. A criminal staying around for a gun fight is even less likely.
Handgun with a light is all you need.
lol.. After your first gun fight get back to me on what you need.. if you still can.
I'll always take my AR with a 30 rounder over a pistol if I can. Real life experience teaches you this.
Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW
Only until Governor Jay gets his mag legislation passed. ;)
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 10:49:41 AM
I never planned on getting in a gun fight with anyone. When 4 drug dealing gang bangers tried to kill me because I evicted their buddy from a rental and told him he owes me money for damages caused by a grow operation I got an education on realities of gun fights.
You have no idea what "Methed out" criminals will do. The 96 year old great grandma who got a hammer to the head in Yakima found out what a home burglar will do along with 2 others.
You need to get a reality check and go see Clint Smith. It's always amazing how after the fact you get such clarity of realities.
I have been attacked by a violent criminal in public but that doesn't mean I am going to ignore the extreme improbability of getting into a gunfight with random people in my home to where the advantage of a rifle is needed.
Clint Smith in that video references the Hollywood and Miami shootouts. Those were police interactions with dangerous convicts. I'm not a police officer looking for dangerous convicts.
Maybe I should start my own training course on how to take down German terrorists that are armed with P90s at office Christmas parties.
Most "gun crime" occurs in about a dozen cities managed exclusively by Democrats. If someone actually randomly breaks into my home I will keep a drink in my left hand if it suits me. I'm not going to live in fear of random "gun crime" which is really just media hype and the inability of Democrats to manage their own areas.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 10:58:45 AM
Post by: syoungs on December 17, 2019, 11:01:14 AM
https://www.610kona.com/two-injured-in-richland-shooting-early-monday-morning/
https://keprtv.com/news/local/watch-new-footage-released-from-pasco-gun-fight
less then 1 minute of google shows these 3 links. 2 in Benton county, 1 across the river in franklin county.
Not home invasions.
Still gunfights that happened in Benton county.
"Where you do plan on getting into this gunfight? Eastern Wa? Most Wa homicides are in King/Pierce.
Criminals aren't looking to get into a gunfight over your HDTV.
Oh dear something went bump in my shed in Benton county, hang on lemme get my SAW"
If these types of acts are happening anywhere relevant to where I live, I am not going to consider limiting myself to a far less superior choice of weaponry.
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 11:03:32 AM
The naivete is strong in this one. I truly hope you don't become a victim of it. I know I won't become a victim of my preparedness.
The naivete is strong in this one.
I'm going to wear kevlar to my office party. I know I won't be a victim of a terrorist attack.
Guess I am just more prepared than you.
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 11:13:28 AM
If these types of acts are happening anywhere relevant to where I live, I am not going to consider limiting myself to a far less superior choice of weaponry.
I asked where in Eastern Wa this gunfight would occur.
Yakima county is not the norm and most of their "gun crimes" involve Hispanic gangs.
And referencing a police shootout and a domestic dispute in Yakima doesn't change the extreme unlikelihood of this random suburban break-in shootout anywhere in Washington.
This is no different than refusing to fly because you remember a plane crash from two years ago. It's not a rational concern.
A handgun is all you need. But I'm very pro-2A so if you want to sleep in body armor and answer the door with an AK then go ahead.
Post by: KFhunter on December 17, 2019, 11:28:23 AM
So there's no real arguing about this, its just an opinion, none are right or wrong.
Post by: syoungs on December 17, 2019, 11:32:23 AM
If these types of acts are happening anywhere relevant to where I live, I am not going to consider limiting myself to a far less superior choice of weaponry.
I asked where in Eastern Wa this gunfight would occur.
Yakima county is not the norm and most of their "gun crimes" involve Hispanic gangs.
And referencing a police shootout and a domestic dispute in Yakima doesn't change the extreme unlikelihood of this random suburban break-in shootout anywhere in Washington.
This is no different than refusing to fly because you remember a plane crash from two years ago. It's not a rational concern.
A handgun is all you need. But I'm very pro-2A so if you want to sleep in body armor and answer the door with an AK then go ahead.
Yakima is rough, but we have the same people moving up and down the valley. I'm not sure why Yakima was even brought up.
about 9 blocks from my house in richland.
https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/crime/article237897144.html
yeah its not a home invasion. but this proves these career criminals are out and about in eastern Washington.
Once again, I will not limit my choices in defensive weapons by choice, especially when people like this are around.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 11:35:38 AM
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 01:57:45 PM
Anyone who thinks they know what's best in home and personal defense for everyone has an attitude very similar to that of our state AG. "Only we know what's best for you!"
So who you comparing to that slimeball AG?
The questioned was asked if a rifle is needed for home defense.
I said not in most cases and explained why.
The person in the video that sells a defense course seems to think he knows best and made fascinating arguments like: Remember that cop shooting that had nothing to do with home invasions?
He should stay off planes if he is that worried.
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2019, 02:42:19 PM
Anyone who thinks they know what's best in home and personal defense for everyone has an attitude very similar to that of our state AG. "Only we know what's best for you!"
I dont even know whats best for me, that's why I have a crap ton of options and since I can see 400-600 yards from my house, I have some long range options in the unlikely event I miss up close.
Post by: Platensek-po on December 17, 2019, 02:51:05 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 17, 2019, 03:00:13 PM
Anyone who thinks they know what's best in home and personal defense for everyone has an attitude very similar to that of our state AG. "Only we know what's best for you!"
So who you comparing to that slimeball AG?
The questioned was asked if a rifle is needed for home defense.
I said not in most cases and explained why.
The person in the video that sells a defense course seems to think he knows best and made fascinating arguments like: Remember that cop shooting that had nothing to do with home invasions?
He should stay off planes if he is that worried.
No, I wasn't comparing you to Ferguson. But I was comparing the type of attitude that you know better than anyone else what we ll need for defense. That's ridiculous. I don't care how you choose to defend your home or even whether you feel the need to. But instead of acknowledging that different people have different ideas about what's necessary, you mocked and characterized several of us as going to bed with kevlar on and answering the door with an AK47, all because we have different views of how to effectively defend ourselves and our homes. I've heard this many times from the anti-gun left. "You don't need a military-style weapon to defend your home." Really? Who made you the boss of me and my rights? So, whether it's you or Bob F., you don't get to tell me what's right or what's overkill for my own defense decisions.
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2019, 03:14:05 PM
Not really trying to thread jack but I have a question for those of you with multiple guns around the house. Do you have kids? How do you balance accessibility to your firearms and keeping them safe from munchkins?? I spend a lot of time talking to my kids about firearm safety and what to do if they find one but I have a hard time balancing keeping loaded weapons in my house and having them accessible while also keeping them safe from my kids. Right now my pistol is mostly to buy time until I get to my long guns. Just curious how others deal with that.
I'll refer you to the thread about 1639
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 03:26:52 PM
I've heard this many times from the anti-gun left. "You don't need a military-style weapon to defend your home." Really? Who made you the boss of me and my rights? So, whether it's you or Bob F., you don't get to tell me what's right or what's overkill for my own defense decisions.
You want to talk about the anti-gun left? Guys like the one in the video are part of the problem. He has all these gun owners thinking they should be doing over analysis of some suburban stalking terrorist group when this is the real problem:
https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Ban_on_Assault_Weapons_Initiative_(2020)
I'm sick of this mall ninja tactical training crap. The bogeyman is not in your backyard.
The bogeyman is indeed real and he writes bills.
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on December 17, 2019, 03:29:16 PM
If these types of acts are happening anywhere relevant to where I live, I am not going to consider limiting myself to a far less superior choice of weaponry.
I asked where in Eastern Wa this gunfight would occur.
Yakima county is not the norm and most of their "gun crimes" involve Hispanic gangs.
And referencing a police shootout and a domestic dispute in Yakima doesn't change the extreme unlikelihood of this random suburban break-in shootout anywhere in Washington.
This is no different than refusing to fly because you remember a plane crash from two years ago. It's not a rational concern.
A handgun is all you need. But I'm very pro-2A so if you want to sleep in body armor and answer the door with an AK then go ahead.
Occupied residential burglaries do occur, apparently more often then you think. Sure not all end up in a gunfight, but I don’t prepare for the best case scenarios. Yea a handgun can be sufficient, but I for sure would rather have my rifle. I’d also much rather clear rooms with that rifle then my pistol. To each their own I suppose.
Post by: Cab on December 17, 2019, 03:38:53 PM
I've heard this many times from the anti-gun left. "You don't need a military-style weapon to defend your home." Really? Who made you the boss of me and my rights? So, whether it's you or Bob F., you don't get to tell me what's right or what's overkill for my own defense decisions.
You want to talk about the anti-gun left? Guys like the one in the video are part of the problem. He has all these gun owners thinking they should be doing over analysis of some suburban stalking terrorist group when this is the real problem:
https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Ban_on_Assault_Weapons_Initiative_(2020)
I'm sick of this mall ninja tactical training crap. The bogeyman is not in your backyard.
The bogeyman is indeed real and he writes bills.
He mostly trains LEO, FBI and Swat and has for over 30+ years on close range gun fighting(those cop shootings are at very close range similar to your home), other people wanted to learn from him what he teaches, why is that a bad thing? Why is learning and practicing fundamentals mean your a tactical mall ninja? Clint Smith is far from a tactical mall ninja, his EDC is a 1911, he never wears anything tactical and is about keeping things simple. You don't have to listen to him but I wouldn't dismiss him or label him "the problem".
Post by: Platensek-po on December 17, 2019, 04:44:50 PM
Not really trying to thread jack but I have a question for those of you with multiple guns around the house. Do you have kids? How do you balance accessibility to your firearms and keeping them safe from munchkins?? I spend a lot of time talking to my kids about firearm safety and what to do if they find one but I have a hard time balancing keeping loaded weapons in my house and having them accessible while also keeping them safe from my kids. Right now my pistol is mostly to buy time until I get to my long guns. Just curious how others deal with that.
I'll refer you to the thread about 1639
Cool I’ll check it out
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 17, 2019, 04:54:50 PM
Not really trying to thread jack but I have a question for those of you with multiple guns around the house. Do you have kids? How do you balance accessibility to your firearms and keeping them safe from munchkins?? I spend a lot of time talking to my kids about firearm safety and what to do if they find one but I have a hard time balancing keeping loaded weapons in my house and having them accessible while also keeping them safe from my kids. Right now my pistol is mostly to buy time until I get to my long guns. Just curious how others deal with that.It's all a question of weighing risks. When I had no kids, I had access to loaded long guns in multiple locations. When my son was born, I bought a safe and put everything in it except for a 1911 on a high bedroom shelf with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber. When he was 4 or 5 that went into the safe too. After he'd passed firearm safety and been shooting multiple times, and was very clear about firearm safety, that 45 came back out - and I was worried despite all my efforts and faith in his level headedness. When he was a teen with suicidal tendencies all the guns went away in the safe. Now that he's on his own with a career and doing great, I have my EDC with me and that's it.
The first rule of gunfighting is have a gun. Where I live, in a dense subdivision and a town with low violent crime, I'm comfortable with that. Is it bulletproof? No, but nothing is. I'd have a different plan under different circumstances, but I'm comfortable in my situation having "a" gun.
Post by: Cougartail on December 17, 2019, 04:55:16 PM
I've heard this many times from the anti-gun left. "You don't need a military-style weapon to defend your home." Really? Who made you the boss of me and my rights? So, whether it's you or Bob F., you don't get to tell me what's right or what's overkill for my own defense decisions.
You want to talk about the anti-gun left? Guys like the one in the video are part of the problem. He has all these gun owners thinking they should be doing over analysis of some suburban stalking terrorist group when this is the real problem:
https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Ban_on_Assault_Weapons_Initiative_(2020)
I'm sick of this mall ninja tactical training crap. The bogeyman is not in your backyard.
The bogeyman is indeed real and he writes bills.
Funny.. You were the one talking about taking the "SAW" and going out to see who was banging around in the back yard. I'd just call the police.. :chuckle:
As for training.. Lack thereof is irresponsible and will get you killed. People with real life experiences realize the fundamentals that you call "ninja tactical training" are what keep you alive. Without the fundamentals your pistol and light are worthless.
Also.. People who aren't trained are rarely able to actually shoot someone without hesitation which gets themselves killed as they are unsure of their ability and outcomes. (You miss, you die or are thrown in jail.)
Until you have to point a gun at someone you won't understand.
Post by: metlhead on December 17, 2019, 04:59:54 PM
Post by: fowl smacker on December 17, 2019, 05:09:33 PM
First off, what is a bogeyman? I've never had to draw my concealed weapon or grab a gun after hearing something go bump in the night. However, I do try to shoot a couple times a week, I practice clearing my garments to get to my pistol. I pray I never have to put all my practice to action in a real life self defense scenario, but I will be ready if I ever need to. Just last year an armed criminal was shot early in the morning at a Flying K that I sometimes stop at on my way to work. I could have been in there that day. You can call whoever you want the BOOGEYMAN but they are out there and if I happen to run into him, I'm going to be armed and ready (preferably with my shotgun or rifle), but my pistol will hopefully do in a pinch. Voting gun hating Liberals out of office will certainly help your average law abiding citizen.I've heard this many times from the anti-gun left. "You don't need a military-style weapon to defend your home." Really? Who made you the boss of me and my rights? So, whether it's you or Bob F., you don't get to tell me what's right or what's overkill for my own defense decisions.
You want to talk about the anti-gun left? Guys like the one in the video are part of the problem. He has all these gun owners thinking they should be doing over analysis of some suburban stalking terrorist group when this is the real problem:
https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Ban_on_Assault_Weapons_Initiative_(2020)
I'm sick of this mall ninja tactical training crap. The bogeyman is not in your backyard.
The bogeyman is indeed real and he writes bills.
Post by: mtn muley madness on December 17, 2019, 05:12:03 PM
Post by: magnanimous_j on December 17, 2019, 06:24:11 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot and I think the best option for me is a hi-capacity 9mm auto pistol. I'm thinking a CZ p-10, with a red dot, a suppressor and a flashlight on the bottom rail. 17 rounds on tap, in the heaviest load that cycles reliably. Easy to maneuver, red dot makes low light target finding easy, 9mm for easy Mozambique drills, can use the flashlight to blind intruders (not to mention actually seeing what you are shooting) and the suppressor won't blow out everyone's eardrums.
Post by: konradcountry on December 17, 2019, 06:57:31 PM
Funny.. You were the one talking about taking the "SAW" and going out to see who was banging around in the back yard. I'd just call the police.. :chuckle:
Was sarcasm.
As for training.. Lack thereof is irresponsible and will get you killed. People with real life experiences realize the fundamentals that you call "ninja tactical training" are what keep you alive. Without the fundamentals your pistol and light are worthless.
I don't need a commando school to learn how to operate a pistol and light.
The guy is running a commando school and advocating rifle training for home defense when AR-15s could be illegal in Oregon within a year. Total lack of awareness as to who the threat is.
We don't need any more tacti-dudes making youtube videos about the Miami shooting or advanced tactics when dealing with suburban terrorist squads.
But nevermind let's return to training for million to 1 scenarios when it is 1:1 that libs want to ban AR-15s in Washington and Oregon. The country has a real problem with identifying enemies within.
Post by: Alchase on December 17, 2019, 07:57:40 PM
If you feel comfortable using your pistol for every scenario, more power to you.
But please do not belittle others who go the extra mile to prepare for all scenarios.
You come a crossed as miss informed.
Many here have extensive military and or police background or extensive training. Some just want to provide the safest environment by Giving themselves multiple options if things go south.
I will say this, in my time as a CQB instructor, many moons ago, our handgun was a means to fight until you could get back to your rifle.
If able I will always pick my AR over a handgun. But, I will always have a backup handgun and shotgun nearby as well for those times I can’t get to my rifle.
Post by: Cougartail on December 17, 2019, 07:58:39 PM
You are right. "You need to go to commando school to learn how to operate a pistol and light while someone is trying to kill you."
Totally different but there is no convincing someone like you until it happens.. Hope you never have to defend yourself and good luck if you do. (You'll need it!)
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2019, 10:40:29 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot and I think the best option for me is a hi-capacity 9mm auto pistol. I'm thinking a CZ p-10, with a red dot, a suppressor and a flashlight on the bottom rail. 17 rounds on tap
This is pure gold...and dripping with hypocrisy! :chuckle:
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 17, 2019, 10:46:05 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 18, 2019, 06:39:57 AM
I've heard this many times from the anti-gun left. "You don't need a military-style weapon to defend your home." Really? Who made you the boss of me and my rights? So, whether it's you or Bob F., you don't get to tell me what's right or what's overkill for my own defense decisions.
You want to talk about the anti-gun left? Guys like the one in the video are part of the problem. He has all these gun owners thinking they should be doing over analysis of some suburban stalking terrorist group when this is the real problem:
https://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_Ban_on_Assault_Weapons_Initiative_(2020)
I'm sick of this mall ninja tactical training crap. The bogeyman is not in your backyard.
The bogeyman is indeed real and he writes bills.
I'm relieved to find out you're not in favor of gun control. But you're still slinging insults at other gun owners (mall ninja, boogeyman, etc.) because their ideas don't align with yours. Your problem is you don't know at where or what you should lash out so you lash out in every direction. Figure out who's like-minded and who is not and stick to lashing out at who is not. I doubt you'll take the advise but sometimes miracles happen.
Post by: baker5150 on December 18, 2019, 07:58:19 AM
Funny.. You were the one talking about taking the "SAW" and going out to see who was banging around in the back yard. I'd just call the police.. :chuckle:
Was sarcasm.As for training.. Lack thereof is irresponsible and will get you killed. People with real life experiences realize the fundamentals that you call "ninja tactical training" are what keep you alive. Without the fundamentals your pistol and light are worthless.
I don't need a commando school to learn how to operate a pistol and light.
The guy is running a commando school and advocating rifle training for home defense when AR-15s could be illegal in Oregon within a year. Total lack of awareness as to who the threat is.
We don't need any more tacti-dudes making youtube videos about the Miami shooting or advanced tactics when dealing with suburban terrorist squads.
But nevermind let's return to training for million to 1 scenarios when it is 1:1 that libs want to ban AR-15s in Washington and Oregon. The country has a real problem with identifying enemies within.
Why would you be against anyone preparing for the worst case scenario? Especially when it comes to a life or death situation.
What is the negative impact to being prepared, or overly prepared?
Post by: 2MANY on December 18, 2019, 09:14:13 AM
The best defense is a good offense.
The end.
Post by: boneaddict on December 18, 2019, 09:20:42 AM
Post by: 2MANY on December 18, 2019, 09:34:44 AM
Post by: Platensek-po on December 18, 2019, 09:36:24 AM
That's why they wear brown pants. :):chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on December 18, 2019, 09:41:35 AM
That's why they wear brown pants. :)
:chuckle:
Thats the dumb thing this year. UPS hired a whole bunch of plain cloths guys. This not so professional looking ethnic fellow pulls up to my house in a plain old beat up white van........ Imagine his surprise when the welcoming committee greeted him
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 18, 2019, 10:24:58 AM
Post by: konradcountry on December 19, 2019, 12:52:05 PM
I'm relieved to find out you're not in favor of gun control. But you're still slinging insults at other gun owners (mall ninja, boogeyman, etc.) because their ideas don't align with yours. Your problem is you don't know at where or what you should lash out so you lash out in every direction. Figure out who's like-minded and who is not and stick to lashing out at who is not. I doubt you'll take the advise but sometimes miracles happen.
That's one way of looking at it.
Or another way is that I'm better in touch with reality and actual threats to our lifestyle than the 10 thousand mall ninja experts on youtube arguing about which hollow bullets to use on suburban terrorists. These people serve as a distraction to real threats and I'll criticize them all I want.
Mr Commando there will probably have to switch his class to "shotgun tactics" if Oregon libs get their way next year. They are pushing for a flat out ban.
Post by: Cougartail on December 19, 2019, 07:09:24 PM
I'm relieved to find out you're not in favor of gun control. But you're still slinging insults at other gun owners (mall ninja, boogeyman, etc.) because their ideas don't align with yours. Your problem is you don't know at where or what you should lash out so you lash out in every direction. Figure out who's like-minded and who is not and stick to lashing out at who is not. I doubt you'll take the advise but sometimes miracles happen.
That's one way of looking at it.
Or another way is that I'm better in touch with reality and actual threats to our lifestyle than the 10 thousand mall ninja experts on youtube arguing about which hollow bullets to use on suburban terrorists. These people serve as a distraction to real threats and I'll criticize them all I want.
Mr Commando there will probably have to switch his class to "shotgun tactics" if Oregon libs get their way next year. They are pushing for a flat out ban.
Troll?
Post by: Gobble Doc on December 19, 2019, 11:18:40 PM
I got some guy driving up in an old lifted beat up Tacoma in plain clothes. I wasn’t expecting a present from him when he unrolled the window. Don’t remember if it was amazon or what.That's why they wear brown pants. :)
:chuckle:
Thats the dumb thing this year. UPS hired a whole bunch of plain cloths guys. This not so professional looking ethnic fellow pulls up to my house in a plain old beat up white van........ Imagine his surprise when the welcoming committee greeted him
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 20, 2019, 06:47:18 AM
I'm relieved to find out you're not in favor of gun control. But you're still slinging insults at other gun owners (mall ninja, boogeyman, etc.) because their ideas don't align with yours. Your problem is you don't know at where or what you should lash out so you lash out in every direction. Figure out who's like-minded and who is not and stick to lashing out at who is not. I doubt you'll take the advise but sometimes miracles happen.
That's one way of looking at it.
Or another way is that I'm better in touch with reality and actual threats to our lifestyle than the 10 thousand mall ninja experts on youtube arguing about which hollow bullets to use on suburban terrorists. These people serve as a distraction to real threats and I'll criticize them all I want.
Mr Commando there will probably have to switch his class to "shotgun tactics" if Oregon libs get their way next year. They are pushing for a flat out ban.
Troll?
Not sure he's a troll - possibly. But he certainly is striking out in every direction. I support 2A. I don't support your version of 2A. I should be the one writing the rules for 2A, etc. He just sounds confused to me. :dunno:
Post by: ballpark on December 20, 2019, 06:58:37 AM
I haven't watched the video. If we are talking long guns for self defense, it is hard to argue a shotgun with buckshot.
That's my armchair QB response.
Might want to watch the video :tup:
Post by: Cougartail on December 20, 2019, 10:25:53 AM
I haven't watched the video. If we are talking long guns for self defense, it is hard to argue a shotgun with buckshot.
That's my armchair QB response.
Might want to watch the video :tup:
Always helps! :chuckle:
Post by: Cougartail on December 20, 2019, 10:37:17 AM
I'm relieved to find out you're not in favor of gun control. But you're still slinging insults at other gun owners (mall ninja, boogeyman, etc.) because their ideas don't align with yours. Your problem is you don't know at where or what you should lash out so you lash out in every direction. Figure out who's like-minded and who is not and stick to lashing out at who is not. I doubt you'll take the advise but sometimes miracles happen.
That's one way of looking at it.
Or another way is that I'm better in touch with reality and actual threats to our lifestyle than the 10 thousand mall ninja experts on youtube arguing about which hollow bullets to use on suburban terrorists. These people serve as a distraction to real threats and I'll criticize them all I want.
Mr Commando there will probably have to switch his class to "shotgun tactics" if Oregon libs get their way next year. They are pushing for a flat out ban.
Troll?
Not sure he's a troll - possibly. But he certainly is striking out in every direction. I support 2A. I don't support your version of 2A. I should be the one writing the rules for 2A, etc. He just sounds confused to me. :dunno:
Young and inexperienced possibly? I for one realize a lot of those "YouTube internet commandos" are current/former military/police with good information. Living it is far different than thinking you know. Time on earth teaches you that.
Post by: konradcountry on December 24, 2019, 09:09:50 AM
Why would you be against anyone preparing for the worst case scenario? Especially when it comes to a life or death situation.
What is the negative impact to being prepared, or overly prepared?
The point is that our gun culture lacks a realistic perception of credible threats and wastes time on 1:1000000 bogeymen. That's not an exaggeration. The odds of getting into a gunfight during a home invasion are over 1 in a million. Or are you going to deny that?
Oregon is next on the gun grabbers list and this command school tough guy could be handing over his rifles to the government as soon as 2021.
The government is the threat to your possessions and not some suburban robber trying to shoot it out and risk his life so he can pawn your hdtv.
Like I said he'll probably have to switch to "tactical shotguns for defense" and by then the libs will be out for "assault shotguns". Maybe at the point you will rethink calling me inexperienced.
Post by: KFhunter on December 24, 2019, 09:24:41 AM
Oh wait...lady fingers are banned
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on December 24, 2019, 09:45:43 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 24, 2019, 10:10:37 AM