Post by: dwholmes on December 18, 2019, 06:25:53 PM
****UPDATE**** I have talked to the vet that was involved and she works for the NW Indians fisheries ( I won't give her name here) she told me the drug that they used to tranquilize the cow elk is called Thianl and the FDA says DO NOT USE ON FOOD GRADE ANIMALS!! This drug is used out of helicopters because it puts the animal down quickly. They use a different drug when they are on the ground trying to tranquilize the animals and its called BAM and I have been told that drug is out of the animals system in 28 days. The Thianl never leaves the animals system and makes it inedible the rest of its life. I have talked to a couple biologist (one with the Swinomish tribe and one with WDFW) and they both have confirmed what she told me but can not tell me if this drug is used throughout the state on all the elk herds. They tranquilized 25 cow elk in the 418 unit with this drug in March. This is a project that involves 8 tribes and wdfw from what I am being told.
I just had a very disturbing phone call with a cousin of mine. His brother shot a cow elk a couple days ago in the 407 unit and she had a collar on it (no big deal) except there was no ID on the collar and she had a tag in her ear that said do not eat and it had a phone number. They get cell service and call the number and it’s a veterinarian and she works with the tribes and state. She said it was safe to eat and they would be fine. Then calls them back a little bit later and says no you can’t eat the meat because the tribe (stilliguamish) are using non FDA approved tranquilizers when they collared this elk in March.
The biologist shows up and tells them they aren’t suppose to shoot collared elk (a lie) and that they collared this elk only a week ago (another lie). He took the elk and dumped it so nobody can eat the meat.
Why is the stilly tribe tranquilizing and collaring elk in the 407 unit....so they can track them and shoot them easier??
If Wdfw has a 26 million dollar shortfall why are they wasting money putting a tribal collar on these elk.
Why are they using a unapproved tranquilizer on these animals if it makes the meat inedible what a damn waste!!
Post by: Lumpy Taters on December 18, 2019, 06:43:23 PM
Post by: Mfowl on December 18, 2019, 06:45:54 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on December 18, 2019, 07:08:38 PM
Post by: Bowhunter3 on December 18, 2019, 07:18:36 PM
Post by: Chukarhead on December 18, 2019, 07:36:15 PM
Post by: Stein on December 18, 2019, 07:37:38 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2019, 07:56:19 PM
Odd for sure. :dunno: ……. but isn't your cousins brother, your cousin too?
Fishy :dunno:
:yeah:
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2019, 07:58:01 PM
The tribes do lots of management type stuff. I suspect this was an example of that free of any conspiracies.
Post by: ghosthunter on December 18, 2019, 08:27:26 PM
After watching congress today, I would have eaten the meat.
:chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on December 18, 2019, 08:54:50 PM
I woulda ate it.
Post by: dwholmes on December 19, 2019, 07:01:44 AM
Post by: Fishmaker57 on December 19, 2019, 07:59:35 AM
Post by: lastmk8 on December 19, 2019, 09:16:56 AM
As the regs state, shooting a collard elk is ok, so now someone stole your bounty. Two different stories about when it was collared and darted...?? fishy again. If everything is legit, I also think the hunter should receive another tag, as our guidelines state just the opposite.
Not to many things make a person an overnight sensation on this site, unless you are selling fish and making deliveries in the quantities like Skillet, but we would all love to follow this incident until the final chapter. This is an interesting one, keep us posted please.
Might also consider adding a little more meat to your Subject line, some may just gloss over "Must Read", maybe add darted-collared Elk to it......
Thanks and welcome again.
Post by: KP-Skagit on December 19, 2019, 09:32:53 AM
Post by: M_ray on December 19, 2019, 10:47:47 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 19, 2019, 11:53:36 AM
The vet said it was collared on March however the biologist called back and said do not eat it as it was tranquilized last week. Two separate stories on it from the two people who can tell us if it’s fine to eat. The biologist took the elk and dumped it. In the regs it also very clearly states that you are fine to shoot a collared elk. You just need to call and report. All the elk who get tranquilized and tagged are supposed to be done well before hunting season so this issue does not arise. The Stilly tribe is not even located in the area of 407 they are a ways. There was no information on the collar besides it being the Stilly tribes collar.
When you say they dumped it, what do you mean? Specifically. Like....they threw it in the ditch, they took it to a designated place and disposed of it, etc. Preferably facts and not theories.
If it was tranquilized last week, then maybe it's not safe to eat. I don't know the science of it. There are some members of the forum who probably do know and maybe will chime in.
Post by: jackelope on December 19, 2019, 11:55:45 AM
Post by: SteelheadTed on December 19, 2019, 12:14:49 PM
Post by: dwholmes on December 19, 2019, 01:54:34 PM
Post by: dwholmes on December 19, 2019, 01:58:53 PM
Post by: Lumpy Taters on December 20, 2019, 08:36:03 AM
Post by: LDennis24 on December 31, 2019, 07:56:16 AM
THIAFENTANIL-AZAPERONE-XYLAZINE AND CARFENTANIL-XYLAZINE IMMOBILIZATIONS OF FREE-RANGING CARIBOU (RANGIFER TARANDUS GRANTI) IN ALASKA, USA.
Lian M, et al. J Wildl Dis. 2016.
Show full citation
Abstract
Carfentanil-xylazine (CX) has been the primary drug combination used for immobilizing free-ranging ungulates in Alaska, US since 1986. We investigated the efficacy of a potential new drug of choice, thiafentanil (Investigational New Animal Drug A-3080). Captive trials indicated that thiafentanil-azaperone-medetomidine could provide good levels of immobilization. However, field trials conducted in October 2013 on free-ranging caribou ( Rangifer tarandus granti) calves showed the combination too potent, causing three respiratory arrests and one mortality. The protocol was revised to thiafentanil-azaperone-xylazine (TAX), with good results. The induction time was not significantly different between the two combinations. However, the recovery time was significantly shorter for the TAX group than for the CX group. A physiologic evaluation was performed on 12 animals immobilized on CX and 15 animals on TAX. Arterial blood was collected after induction and again after 10 min of intranasal oxygen supplements (1 L/min). Both groups had significant increases in partial pressure of arterial oxygen after oxygen treatment. There was a concurrent significant increase in partial pressure of arterial carbon dioxide in both groups. Rectal temperature increased significantly in both groups during the downtime, which is consistent with other studies of potent opioids in ungulates. On the basis of our results, we found TAX to be a potential alternative for the current CX protocol for immobilizing free-ranging caribou calves via helicopter darting
Post by: boneaddict on December 31, 2019, 08:02:26 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 31, 2019, 08:35:25 AM
"M. Indication(s): For immobilization of captive minor species
hoof stock excluding any member of a foodproducing minor species such as deer, elk, or
bison and any minor species animal that may
become eligible for consumption by humans or
food-producing animals."
https://www.fda.gov/media/101533/download
Post by: jaredwitman on December 31, 2019, 09:42:17 AM
On Thiafentanil oxalate
"M. Indication(s): For immobilization of captive minor species
hoof stock excluding any member of a foodproducing minor species such as deer, elk, or
bison and any minor species animal that may
become eligible for consumption by humans or
food-producing animals."
https://www.fda.gov/media/101533/download
Hmmmm.....
Post by: boneaddict on December 31, 2019, 10:25:09 AM
Post by: Pegasus on December 31, 2019, 11:08:38 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 31, 2019, 11:14:28 AM
Don't advertise to the local junkies that elk might contain opiates........they develop a real case of the munchies
I think I now have devised a plan to reduce hoof disease elk numbers and junkies all at once.
Post by: jstone on December 31, 2019, 11:20:30 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 31, 2019, 11:50:12 AM
So if a bear eats one of these elk and you kill the bear and eat the bear.? What happens?
According to the FDA paper above, it could be harmful.
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on December 31, 2019, 11:51:38 AM
So if a bear eats one of these elk and you kill the bear and eat the bear.? What happens?
You become a lion king. It's called the circle of life, I believe.
Post by: boneaddict on December 31, 2019, 12:13:28 PM
Post by: Gobble Doc on December 31, 2019, 12:56:03 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: hunter399 on December 31, 2019, 03:42:57 PM
Post by: 444Marlin on December 31, 2019, 07:34:38 PM
I'll let you know what they say.
Post by: LDennis24 on December 31, 2019, 09:36:46 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on December 31, 2019, 10:26:29 PM
It’s hard to believe they would use a drug that isn’t 99.999999% excreted or metabolized within a reasonable amount of time.
I don't know if this will help.
https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=icwdmccwhcnews
Post by: huntingfool7 on January 01, 2020, 06:15:15 AM
I am simply trying to spread the word of this. If they are tranquilizing these animals with drugs that affect them and make them inedible for their lifetime who is to say that these animals aren't passing the stuff in their system to their offspring or to animals that eat it when they die. People put in a lot of time and effort for these elk and to tag one and have it be inedible in my opinion is bs. Even if they give you a new tag.
x2 It's odd that they use drugs that stay in the system.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on January 01, 2020, 08:34:17 AM
I am simply trying to spread the word of this. If they are tranquilizing these animals with drugs that affect them and make them inedible for their lifetime who is to say that these animals aren't passing the stuff in their system to their offspring or to animals that eat it when they die. People put in a lot of time and effort for these elk and to tag one and have it be inedible in my opinion is bs. Even if they give you a new tag.
x2 It's odd that they use drugs that stay in the system.
I'm not so sure that is correct
Post by: KFhunter on January 01, 2020, 12:53:01 PM
If it isn't "FDA approved" their answer is always "DO NOT CONSUME"
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 01, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
I doubt that carfentanil and fentanyl are present in muscle that long after the introduction.
I sure wouldn't eat the liver, a quick google search says that both are metabolized in the liver and I dont eat liver anyway.
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 01, 2020, 02:36:18 PM
Like the FDA no longer inspects beef brain so it's "non FDA Approved" but nothing about the beef brain changed.
Post by: KFhunter on January 01, 2020, 02:55:56 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 01, 2020, 02:58:50 PM
Post by: SteelheadTed on January 09, 2020, 12:31:20 PM
Post by: Stein on January 09, 2020, 12:35:24 PM