Post by: Ridgeratt on January 26, 2020, 12:37:07 PM
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jan/26/investigation-ferry-county-range-riders-were-in-sp/
Post by: Gobble Doc on January 26, 2020, 12:57:40 PM
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Post by: ribka on January 26, 2020, 01:12:46 PM
How much money did conservation NW make off of this scam? Do they oversee and have the contract for fraudulent range rider program with WDFW?
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2020, 03:20:25 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ConservationNW/photos/a.77015448747/10156661781248748/?type=1&theaterIsnt that the same Jay Sheppard that used to work for WDFW?
How much money did conservation NW make off of this scam? Do they oversee and have the contract for fraudulent range rider program with WDFW?
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Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 26, 2020, 03:30:00 PM
Money well spent.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/jan/26/investigation-ferry-county-range-riders-were-in-sp/
Dirtballs. Sign me up if wheeler or horse provided. Double down, paid for scouting time, and spend it in the city. Don't make sense.
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2020, 03:33:28 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ConservationNW/photos/a.77015448747/10156661781248748/?type=1&theaterIsnt that the same Jay Sheppard that used to work for WDFW?
How much money did conservation NW make off of this scam? Do they oversee and have the contract for fraudulent range rider program with WDFW?
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Yes, from Ridgeratt:
Lets try this name.
https://www.conservationnw.org/meet-our-staff/jay-shepherd/
Jay Shepherd
Wolf Program Lead
2084207832 X jshepherd@conservationnw.org
Jay coordinates our Wolf Program, including managing our Range Rider Pilot Project and working with local ranchers and conservationists in northeast Washington. Dr. Shepherd has a long history in wildlife research and management with state and federal agencies in western North America, most recently immersed in wolf recovery and reducing wildlife conflicts in Washington. Jay grew up in Walla Walla, Washington where he worked on his family’s wheat farm and cattle ranch into his twenties. As a biologist, Jay worked with amphibians, ungulates, predators, seabirds, and raptors, as well as shrub-steppe and old-growth forest habitat. He has a B.S. in Wildlife Resources, an M.S. in Wildlife Biology, and a Ph.D. in Natural Resources from the University of Idaho. Jay loves the landscape and people of northeastern Washington.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=245429.0;attach=552108;image)
Coincidence?
Post by: KFhunter on January 26, 2020, 03:39:49 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ConservationNW/photos/a.77015448747/10156661781248748/?type=1&theater
How much money did conservation NW make off of this scam? Do they oversee and have the contract for fraudulent range rider program with WDFW?
WDFW detective Lenny Hahn first started investigating the DS Ranch on Oct. 15, 2018. At that time, the contract was valued at $352,000 and listed seven different people, including Jolene and Arron Scotten and several of their relatives, some of whom lived together.
According to cell phone records obtained via a search warrant, there were numerous times Scotten and his wife said they were working when they were not. Some of those periods aligned with times when wolves attacked cattle.
Post by: Pegasus on January 26, 2020, 04:17:17 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on January 26, 2020, 04:32:47 PM
Have them carry a personal locator or spot . Required to push the button every hour which would go to WFWD.
While working.
Solve a lot of questions. Where and when they are working.
Post by: buckfvr on January 26, 2020, 04:35:22 PM
Post by: buckfvr on January 26, 2020, 04:37:57 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 26, 2020, 05:30:40 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on January 26, 2020, 05:41:40 PM
Post by: ribka on January 26, 2020, 06:18:29 PM
He used to come on here and post and lecture members on here like they were misbehaving school children. and he was called out on his lies and misrepresentation and then disappeared. :chuckle: :chuckle:
maybe the eco terrorist Mitch Friedman, who is making money off this scam, can educate us :dunno:
Post by: Red Dog on January 26, 2020, 06:58:16 PM
http://namlhunt.com/ml-wolf-impact.html
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on January 26, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Love to hear Chase Gunnel, the spokesmen from Conservation NW , come on here and justify their scam and waste of tax payer money.The range riders are locals that fleeced the system. What makes you think CNW had anything to do with a "scam"?
He used to come on here and post and lecture members on here like they were misbehaving school children. and he was called out on his lies and misrepresentation and then disappeared. :chuckle: :chuckle:
maybe the eco terrorist Mitch Friedman, who is making money off this scam, can educate us :dunno:
I would like to see them come on to educate you too, sadly I don't think you would let facts get in the way of your bizarre obsession with CNW.
Post by: Jingles on January 26, 2020, 07:17:21 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 26, 2020, 07:56:11 PM
Post by: ribka on January 26, 2020, 11:07:00 PM
It says on CNW's social media that they run the range riders program. Is that a lie too?How much money does CNW receive from WDFW?
Please educate us with facts, seriously without your ridiculous statements.
Chase Gunnel from CNW came on here and swore CNW had zero ties with anti hunting groups. I went on their social and copied a link that they had ties with the Sierra Club and were engaged in anti hunting activism and Chase disappeared.
And CNW actively campaigned to shut down mountain lion seasons. I provided a link.
Please comment on this with some facts
Love to hear Chase Gunnel, the spokesmen from Conservation NW , come on here and justify their scam and waste of tax payer money.The range riders are locals that fleeced the system. What makes you think CNW had anything to do with a "scam"?
He used to come on here and post and lecture members on here like they were misbehaving school children. and he was called out on his lies and misrepresentation and then disappeared. :chuckle: :chuckle:
maybe the eco terrorist Mitch Friedman, who is making money off this scam, can educate us :dunno:
I would like to see them come on to educate you too, sadly I don't think you would let facts get in the way of your bizarre obsession with CNW.
Post by: ribka on January 26, 2020, 11:09:36 PM
please comment on this.
Mitch Friedman was also actively pushing carbon credit scams on his CNW web site that would force residents of Washington to pay higher prices for everything and they would get kick backs, Please comment on this scam too
Love to hear Chase Gunnel, the spokesmen from Conservation NW , come on here and justify their scam and waste of tax payer money.The range riders are locals that fleeced the system. What makes you think CNW had anything to do with a "scam"?
He used to come on here and post and lecture members on here like they were misbehaving school children. and he was called out on his lies and misrepresentation and then disappeared. :chuckle: :chuckle:
maybe the eco terrorist Mitch Friedman, who is making money off this scam, can educate us :dunno:
I would like to see them come on to educate you too, sadly I don't think you would let facts get in the way of your bizarre obsession with CNW.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 26, 2020, 11:16:31 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 27, 2020, 07:58:46 AM
This issue will be fodder for years to come when there are depredation issues in NE WA.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 27, 2020, 08:29:16 AM
They will end up being the fall guys for a program that was never expected to succeed........and probably in practice, never been taken seriously.
Fall guys, BS. Whether or not range riders are, in fact, an effective deterrent is not the question. The question is whether they stole OUR money for doing nothing. If they did, they should pay for it with interest and their freedom.
Post by: KFhunter on January 27, 2020, 09:00:37 AM
They will end up being the fall guys for a program that was never expected to succeed........and probably in practice, never been taken seriously.
I'm seeing a lot of this line of thinking across various social media platforms. Not sure what to think of it.
If they are claiming to be working while they aren't even in the area, it would be fraud.
If they were contracted and had a flex schedule (which I think they did have a flex schedule) then the water is more muddy.
Did they provide the (overall) hours promised and required by the contract? I guess we'll see in court, lets hope they kept careful accounting of their hours worked.
but there's also a good possibility they defrauded their hours, took the money and ran.
This to me is completely separate from the range rider efficacy debate.
Post by: KFhunter on January 27, 2020, 09:05:48 AM
I have cut out the commentary from several other threads regarding this issue and dumped all the comments in this thread.
So it may be a little jumbled, but it's annoying to debate the same topic in 3 different threads.
I have temporarily locked the other threads to force the comments about this issue into this thread.
Thanks all :tup:
Post by: KFhunter on January 27, 2020, 09:08:39 AM
As usual, its the sportsman who get screwed the worst as WDFW continues to shovel money at wolf issues. :bash:
This issue will be fodder for years to come when there are depredation issues in NE WA.
You disagree with the range rider program? You want the ranchers to foot the bill entirely for their own range riding?
Then you and the Diamond M Ranch are in complete agreement in this (one) regard.
They want no part of the RR program, and you don't want WDFW or hunters footing the bill. I agree too.
I emailed Jay Kehn about it, and also talked with numerous ranches about myself possibly doing this, after talking with several ranchers I gave up on the idea of doing it myself.
It was obvious that it was a waste of time and effort and came with too many strings attached.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 27, 2020, 09:28:28 AM
I gotta get in on this. Where do I apply? I'll even stay where I'm supposed to :chuckle:
No kidding.
Post by: CoryTDF on January 27, 2020, 10:47:50 AM
So....... You have a school and in your school you have a set income. You discover that your school has termites. This is a problem and on that needs addressed.
Scenario #1:
Lucky for you there are thousands of motivated and capable termite hunters out in the world, additionally there is a high demand to harvest termites. So, you have a problem and there are literally thousands if not tens of thousands of people that would gladly pay you to allow them to rid you of the problem. You could take the money you earn from charging for the termite control and use it to better protect and manage termites in the future. This will cost you nothing, in fact it will bring money into your district, and your problem will be solved for the rest of the foreseeable future.
Scenario #2:
With the same termite issue explained above you seek a solution. Your initial approach of just ignoring the problem and hoping that it would go away proved to be a horrible decision. Now, your problem has spread and shows no signs of slowing down. You have thousands of people begging you to allow them to help you. They have even offered to pay you to allow them to help you. In your planning phase a termite advocacy group has filled your head with false ideas and made threats against you if you try to deal with the problem. They are gaining support through misinformation and dishonest advertisement. Your termite problem is only getting worse and it's time to make a decision. You have competent volunteers that will pay the district to solve the problem but you have an irrational fear of the advocacy group. So, what are you to do?
Your problem is real and must be solved. Inaction has already proven to be a failed practice. I guess it's time to act but your school budget is a constant worry and one that you spend hours convincing others is vastly underfunded. You have endlessly preach that you need to use taxation to bolster your budget, and in the same breath you use to convince people you are underfunded, you decide that the termite problem needs attention by paid professionals. You dip into the already depleted funds to PAY for termite control and preventative measures.
Years go by and not only do you still have termites but you continue to beg for more money and assure people you are doing your best to solve the problem. The termite harvesters are still begging to allowed to help but you keep turning a blind eye/ear to their offers. Your budget is again traveling into the red, it's time to get back to the drawing board on how you can convince your district that you need to impose more money making efforts at the expense of the taxpayers to solve this termite problem. You tell them " We are doing everything we can to make sure that we take care of the issue. We just don't have the funds to properly address it." And so this goes for years and years.
Money is the problem and the solution. "Listen people, without money we will fail and with it we can succeed." The money keeps rolling in and the taxation continues while the schools gymnasium collapses and the cafeteria becomes condemned. You preach to the taxpayers "We are on the right track. Yes the termites are here but we are controlling them." Again you claim you just need more money. "We will find a harmonious balance of co-existence we promise!" and so on, and so on, and so on....
I like scenario #1 myself. Simple and to the point with the desired outcome achieved while also creating revenue. But I am not a doctor of wildlife management or economics.
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on January 27, 2020, 12:37:59 PM
- There are several range rider programs in Washington. The state has contract range riders, ranches have their own cowboys or range riders (some staff, some family and some on contract), CNW has a range rider program, and there are other local co-ops working to get riders in the field.
- Aron Scotten (the primary individual under investigation) was on contract with the state at the time the alleged fraud took place. Scotten was never on contract with CNW or associated with the org in anyway.
- CNW has it's own range rider program, funded by individual donors and private foundations. We do not receive state funds for this program, though the state has hired some of the same riders under separate contracts. CNW uses GPS use to verify range rider activities, along with training, reports, and more to ensure diligence and avoid fraud. This program has been relatively successful and is appreciated by the ranches involved. Again, the individuals under investigation were in no way involved with this program. More on that program here: https://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/range-rider-pilot-project/ (https://www.conservationnw.org/our-work/wildlife/range-rider-pilot-project/)
- Jay Shepherd does work for CNW. He used to work for WDFW. He lives in northeast WA and is also a founder and board member of the Northeast Washington Wolf Cattle Collaborative, an independent local group working with ranchers to support them in conflict avoidance efforts. Scotten was also a part of that group early on, but resigned shortly before this investigation surfaced in late 2018. Jay and NEWWCC severed ties with him at that time, as the article states.
Update: here's that statement I mentioned: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on January 27, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
Love to hear Chase Gunnel, the spokesmen from Conservation NW , come on here and justify their scam and waste of tax payer money.
He used to come on here and post and lecture members on here like they were misbehaving school children. and he was called out on his lies and misrepresentation and then disappeared. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Didn't disappear. Did have a great hunting season, spending a bit less time online as I'm sure many hunters did. Enjoying a freezer full of WA, AK and MT deer now. Hope yours was good as well.
As stated above, this was not our range rider and there is no connection to CNW.
I also responded to your misstatements regarding lawsuits from out-of-state animal rights groups against WA's lethal removal of wolves a few weeks back, which in fact CNW is in court on the side of the state on, defending the state's lethal removal protocol. You never replied.
Post by: KFhunter on January 27, 2020, 01:36:24 PM
As stated above, this was not our range rider and there is no connection to CNW.
Thanks for the clarification that these range riders under investigation was WDFW's riders, paid for by WDFW and not CNW's riders.
Not a fan of WDFW paying for this...CNW can do what they want with their money, if they spend it range riding good for them.
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on January 27, 2020, 01:50:08 PM
As stated above, this was not our range rider and there is no connection to CNW.
Thanks for the clarification that these range riders under investigation was WDFW's riders, paid for by WDFW and not CNW's riders.
Not a fan of WDFW paying for this...CNW can do what they want with their money, if they spend it range riding good for them.
This might surprise you, but at this point, I fully agree. Wolves have recovered in northeast Washington, and WDFW has actual endangered or declining species to deal with. Funding for wolf conflict avoidance and removal should come from the Department of Agriculture, federal Wildlife Services, local ranches and any other organizations that choose to pitch in.
CNW currently spends $50,000 a grazing season supporting local ranches in wolf conflict avoidance, and helping them employ range riders. In past years that was approximately $80k a grazing season.
While other orgs are making headlines screaming bloody murder and filing lawsuits, we're spending serious money on the ground in Ferry, Stevens and Kittitas counties.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 27, 2020, 01:54:26 PM
Well said, and I completely agree.
As stated above, this was not our range rider and there is no connection to CNW.
Thanks for the clarification that these range riders under investigation was WDFW's riders, paid for by WDFW and not CNW's riders.
Not a fan of WDFW paying for this...CNW can do what they want with their money, if they spend it range riding good for them.
Wolves have recovered in northeast Washington, and WDFW has actual endangered or declining species to deal with. Funding for wolf conflict avoidance and removal should come from the Department of Agriculture, federal Wildlife Services, local ranches and any other organizations that choose to pitch in.
Post by: KFhunter on January 27, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
Well said, and I completely agree.
As stated above, this was not our range rider and there is no connection to CNW.
Thanks for the clarification that these range riders under investigation was WDFW's riders, paid for by WDFW and not CNW's riders.
Not a fan of WDFW paying for this...CNW can do what they want with their money, if they spend it range riding good for them.
Wolves have recovered in northeast Washington, and WDFW has actual endangered or declining species to deal with. Funding for wolf conflict avoidance and removal should come from the Department of Agriculture, federal Wildlife Services, local ranches and any other organizations that choose to pitch in.
Me 3 :tup:
WDFW should be focusing on endangered and declining species for sure, such as mule deer, WT deer and elk...several species in decline.
And maybe add grouse to that list, hearing a lot about turkey's and declining grouse. Are they going to get ahead of that or wait until everyone's wondering where all the grouse went?
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 27, 2020, 02:20:46 PM
WDFW should be focusing on endangered and declining species for sure, such as mule deer, WT deer and elk...several species in decline.
And maybe add grouse to that list, hearing a lot about turkey's and declining grouse. Are they going to get ahead of that or wait until everyone's wondering where all the grouse went?
:tup: Agreed they should take a active approach before there is nothing to protect. But as stated many times before folks don't believe there will ever be a control season in this state.