Post by: ghosthunter on January 31, 2020, 07:07:40 PM
In a state with too many hunters, too many predators , liberal native hunting and too little game ,can we continue to allow bow hunters to shoot either Spike or Cow when everyone one else has to draw for cows.
We all pay the same money. So shouldn’t we have the same opportunity?
Post by: Jellymon on January 31, 2020, 07:26:41 PM
I want the opportunity for my bow to shoot 600yds. I pay the same for a tag, right? And where can bowhunters shoot spikes where rifle cant?
Post by: Jhughes32 on January 31, 2020, 07:40:09 PM
Post by: Bango skank on January 31, 2020, 07:53:27 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on January 31, 2020, 07:53:50 PM
Post by: RobinHoodlum on January 31, 2020, 08:06:52 PM
Take a look at where the harvest came from prior to the current 3 year package. Three years of 300ish tags for both modern and muzzy in every GMU hammered down the Yakima herd.
Unfortunately, you won't find the numbers for elk killed with landowner kill permits and damage tags, but that's a big part of the equation.
Diminishing the already meager opportunities of the different weapon classes is not the answer
Post by: hunter399 on January 31, 2020, 08:22:57 PM
We combine rifle and muzzy for longer season.
And bow season starts to have same rule as modern muzzy.
Now let the popcorn fly.I'm waiting.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :dunno:
:tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :tinfoil: :peep: :peep: :peep: :peep: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot: :stirthepot:
Post by: duckmen1 on January 31, 2020, 08:25:05 PM
Post by: buglebrush on January 31, 2020, 10:42:08 PM
Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle. Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily. It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun. Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.
Exactly. Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty. Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal.
Post by: Bango skank on January 31, 2020, 10:58:35 PM
Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle. Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily. It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun. Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.
Exactly. Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty. Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal.
Ive had trophy bucks broadside at 30 and 40 yards with a bow in my hand and let them walk. Not only the difficulty of drawing when you cant be seen, then holding draw until you have a shot opportunity, then maybe having to let down your draw when you cant hold it any longer, and you can be seen letting down.. but also the consideration of a deer jumping the string... yeah, even a muzzy would have notched a lot of tags for me that i didnt notch because i was holding a bow. Its another major set of challenges using a bow, so it makes sense to have less restricted opportunities.
Post by: Bunny Thumper on February 01, 2020, 12:29:08 AM
Post by: zwickeyman on February 01, 2020, 06:51:42 AM
Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$
Post by: cem3434 on February 01, 2020, 07:08:35 AM
If this state knew how to manage game we wouldnt even be debating any of this. They are so over reactionary. " cant kill any cows for years then there is too many and kill them all" Same with Does after fires etc, Look at the Methow, Entiat etc
Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$
:yeah: ding ding, we have a winner!
Post by: TommyH on February 01, 2020, 07:12:05 AM
Post by: Taco280AI on February 01, 2020, 08:35:16 AM
We all pay the same money. So shouldn’t we have the same opportunity?
You do, go get a bow and start practicing.
Post by: Stein on February 01, 2020, 08:37:28 AM
If this state knew how to manage game we wouldnt even be debating any of this. They are so over reactionary. " cant kill any cows for years then there is too many and kill them all" Same with Does after fires etc, Look at the Methow, Entiat etc
Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$
:yeah: ding ding, we have a winner!
:bdid: The battle is not in here guys.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 01, 2020, 08:48:09 AM
The weapon is harder, and under similar conditions--the hunting strategies much more limited. Since the timber company permits and more people going archery, the other seasons are getting much more difficult. Finding a legal bull in muzzy now (1 1/2 weeks after being chased by the bugling army) is getting harder and harder. Also since WDFW opened up so many additional early muzzy units, the rifle guys aren't getting nearly the same experience as a few years ago. Couldn't imagine someone trying to hunt elk on public land with archery during the rifle season.Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle. Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily. It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun. Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.
Exactly. Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty. Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal.
Post by: buckfvr on February 01, 2020, 10:12:37 AM
Post by: huntnfmly on February 01, 2020, 11:42:15 AM
Ya, keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.:yeah:
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 01, 2020, 12:20:30 PM
Ya, keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.
This isn't the fault of the DFW. We all make our own season/method choices for whatever reason(s). When you're suggesting or requesting changes to another group's seasons, you're going to create a divide; it's one side proposing increased regulation on another. Hunters are some of their own worst enemies and this is precisely why we're losing our privileges. We can't stick together to save our own heritage.
Post by: snake on February 01, 2020, 12:21:21 PM
Post by: buckfvr on February 01, 2020, 12:33:45 PM
Ya, keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.
This isn't the fault of the DFW. We all make our own season/method choices for whatever reason(s). When you're suggesting or requesting changes to another group's seasons, you're going to create a divide; it's one side proposing increased regulation on another. Hunters are some of their own worst enemies and this is precisely why we're losing our privileges. We can't stick together to save our own heritage.
:yeah:
Post by: Pegasus on February 01, 2020, 03:34:17 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 03:58:03 PM
I know several camps that won’t even go elk hunting unless they have a cow tag. Our camp bought all the muzzy tags and apps and never set afoot in elk country. Because it just wasn’t worth it without a cow or bull tag.
Since the state started dumping cow tags on the table years ago, the hunting for spikes has gone in the dumpster. Five hunters in camp in 2016,17,18 all had harvested elk in their lives,all experienced hunters in their 50_60s. Not one saw a spike. Big bulls even cows no problem to see.
All elk come from cows, less cows , less elk. Cows are what’s needed not big bulls.
Ya we could pick up a bow, but I don’t think the weapons makes a difference.
It’s no sure thing with any weapon.
Something has to give. Predators,tribes, management are only going to get worse.
Draws for cow by all user groups and reduced cow tags or No cow tags for anyone.
Regardless of your weapon of choice If you never see a Spike. Really doesn’t matter what weapon you have, you have no opportunities.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 01, 2020, 04:13:35 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 04:42:05 PM
GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.
Nope no data.
Just my own observation.
In a state with one of the fastest growing populations in the nation, it is only going to get worse. No doubt there may be areas that have too many cows. But for the most part in my opinion we are over harvesting cows. And that in turn is limiting Spikes.
Any adverse effect of having too many cows in a area could be addressed a lot quicker than no spikes can be addressed.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 01, 2020, 04:55:29 PM
Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.
2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145, umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
Post by: ribka on February 01, 2020, 06:21:27 PM
GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.
Nope no data.
Just my own observation.
In a state with one of the fastest growing populations in the nation, it is only going to get worse. No doubt there may be areas that have too many cows. But for the most part in my opinion we are over harvesting cows. And that in turn is limiting Spikes.
Any adverse effect of having too many cows in a area could be addressed a lot quicker than no spikes can be addressed.
Post by: ribka on February 01, 2020, 06:24:21 PM
Ghosthunter,
Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.
2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145, umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
Post by: zwickeyman on February 01, 2020, 06:26:30 PM
He is right about the over harvest of cows and the influence of Spikes. His disdain is just directed in the wrong direction. I get it though
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 06:29:25 PM
Ghosthunter,
Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.
2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145, umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
[/quote
Post by: ghosthunter on February 01, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Ghosthunter,
Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.
2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145, umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
[/quote
don’t disagree with you.
So how do we fix it? No cow tags for awhile will help.
We are hung up on our little area of interest. Because everyone thinks they have the short straw.
Regardless of how we got here I don’t believe it will get better until cow tags are eliminated for a period of time. If the WDFW offers the tags every user group will use them. I would too. If those are the cards we are dealt , so be it.
But sooner or later the bullet has to be bitten.
Post by: robodad on February 01, 2020, 06:34:24 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 01, 2020, 06:46:43 PM
Ghosthunter,
Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.
2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145, umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?
[/quote
don’t disagree with you.
So how do we fix it? No cow tags for awhile will help.
We are hung up on our little area of interest. Because everyone thinks they have the short straw.
Regardless of how we got here I don’t believe it will get better until cow tags are eliminated for a period of time. If the WDFW offers the tags every user group will use them. I would too. If those are the cards we are dealt , so be it.
But sooner or later the bullet has to be bitten.
I don’t think the WDFW will do what it needs too. All you have to do is look at how they have sat on their hands with the deer herds in Yakima. Hunting is abysmal for deer and now the elk herds aren’t doing much better.
I guess that is why I am spending September out of state hunting like a lot of other guys are doing as well.
Post by: snake on February 01, 2020, 06:54:07 PM
Post by: zwickeyman on February 01, 2020, 07:00:49 PM
The WDFW/ Washington "Kill em all, or Save them All mentality does not work. set low conservative number of cow tags for every group and let it ride for 5 years.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on February 01, 2020, 07:29:03 PM
If you want to help the herds, you need to control the predators (humans)
NO MORE MULTI PERMITS.
The elk get hunted hard for 2 weeks by "George" during archery. He covers lots of ground, busts out many elk before he gets a shot, but never connects.
Then George spends an additional week in the field chasing elk with his muzzy. George has the same results as he did with his bow.
Finally George, running low on meat, and seasons, hunts even harder through the entire rifle season, pushing more elk around. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't.
George has now spent the better part of 3 months in elk country, which has a huge impact on their breeding and habits.
Lions, wolves, yotes, bears, tribal, state hunters, are all doing their thing too.
Now take George's scenario and multiply it by X number of multi permit hunters....its quite easy to see the effect this is having on our critters.
We are pressuring them wayyyyyy to much.
No More Multi Permits !!!!!!
Post by: hunter399 on February 01, 2020, 09:15:27 PM
I have said it multiple times....Agreed :yeah:
If you want to help the herds, you need to control the predators (humans)
NO MORE MULTI PERMITS.
The elk get hunted hard for 2 weeks by "George" during archery. He covers lots of ground, busts out many elk before he gets a shot, but never connects.
Then George spends an additional week in the field chasing elk with his muzzy. George has the same results as he did with his bow.
Finally George, running low on meat, and seasons, hunts even harder through the entire rifle season, pushing more elk around. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't.
George has now spent the better part of 3 months in elk country, which has a huge impact on their breeding and habits.
Lions, wolves, yotes, bears, tribal, state hunters, are all doing their thing too.
Now take George's scenario and multiply it by X number of multi permit hunters....its quite easy to see the effect this is having on our critters.
We are pressuring them wayyyyyy to much.
No More Multi Permits !!!!!!
Its a money bag push That's really effects populations chance of winter survival.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 01, 2020, 09:33:16 PM
I have said it multiple times....
If you want to help the herds, you need to control the predators (humans)
NO MORE MULTI PERMITS.
The elk get hunted hard for 2 weeks by "George" during archery. He covers lots of ground, busts out many elk before he gets a shot, but never connects.
Then George spends an additional week in the field chasing elk with his muzzy. George has the same results as he did with his bow.
Finally George, running low on meat, and seasons, hunts even harder through the entire rifle season, pushing more elk around. Maybe he gets one, maybe he doesn't.
George has now spent the better part of 3 months in elk country, which has a huge impact on their breeding and habits.
Lions, wolves, yotes, bears, tribal, state hunters, are all doing their thing too.
Now take George's scenario and multiply it by X number of multi permit hunters....its quite easy to see the effect this is having on our critters.
We are pressuring them wayyyyyy to much.
No More Multi Permits !!!!!!
Apparently I need George’s job who has a months worth of vacation to hunt elk through the fall.
Multi season tags are a waste of money IMO, just expands the weekend warriors season a few more weekends...
Post by: NOCK NOCK on February 02, 2020, 07:47:12 AM
We all complain about how crowded the woods are during each weapon season, but the overall #s of hunters is down. The answer to that is simple math,...…. there are thousands of us hunting every season.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 02, 2020, 08:14:58 AM
Post by: Bango skank on February 02, 2020, 08:22:53 AM
A few people I know that got MS tags, ended up hunting less overall. They would just do a little in archery or blow it off because they could make it up in the next four seasons. Then only do a little in muzzy because they could fall back on rifle season. Rifle season rolls around and they leave a little early because they still have late season options. Late season comes and they are getting nagged by the wife for being gone so much and barely hunt it.
I did even worse. Drew multi elk in 2018. Was in alaska all of archery, muzzy and mf seasons, and spent all of late archery elk season hunting deer. 8 years to draw that ms permit and didnt get to hunt elk one single day.
Post by: HillHound on February 02, 2020, 08:43:05 AM
Post by: mburrows on February 02, 2020, 08:53:05 AM
A non scientific example:
No more OTC tags for Entiat for Bucks or Does. Give out 200 early archery permits (Sept 1-14), 50 early muzzy permits (Sept 15-25), 50 early rifle permits (Sept 28th-Oct15), 20 2nd season rifle permits (Oct 18- Oct25), 15 3rd season rifle permits (October 31st-November 8th) and 25 late archery permits (Nov 15-25th)
Also sprinkle in more draw doe hunts when you remove OTC doe tags to hit harvest objectives.
This would help control the overall amount of pressure each unit sees and would allow more people to actually use their points.
Post by: kselkhunter on February 02, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
2018 WDFW stats: (2019 not posted yet)
Archery harvested 1,505 elk; 705 of those anterless
Rifle harvested 2,836 elk, 697 of those antlerless
Muzzy harvested 1,218 elk; 449 of those antlerless
Rifle hunters kill just as many cows as archery.
If I were in charge of WDFW, I would not allow any anterless harvests. I'd extend archery season back to the longer length it was in years past in exchange for removing the cow opportunities. And I'd change the muzzy restriction back to NW legal, removing 209 primers. No cow tags for any weapons seasons, special permit or OTC. At least until such time the elk populations are healthier, then revisit a sane approach to cow tags.
And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state. Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer. That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more. My :twocents:
Post by: Bango skank on February 02, 2020, 09:43:52 AM
And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state. Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer. That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more. My :twocents:
While i dont see this as a possibility just from the negative publicity it would get from the non hunting public, i do like the idea. A lot of guys dont even buy bear or cougar tags. This might encourage people to do so (and increase wdfws revenue a little,) just incase they get a chance to snag an extra deer or elk point while out deer or elk hunting. There are also guys that buy the tags that pass up opportunities to take a bear so as not to interfere with their deer or elk hunt. But the bonus point might be all it takes to get them to fill that tag instead of letting it walk.
Post by: kselkhunter on February 02, 2020, 09:51:59 AM
And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state. Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer. That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more. My :twocents:
While i dont see this as a possibility just from the negative publicity it would get from the non hunting public, i do like the idea. A lot of guys dont even buy bear or cougar tags. This might encourage people to do so (and increase wdfws revenue a little,) just incase they get a chance to snag an extra deer or elk point while out deer or elk hunting. There are also guys that buy the tags that pass up opportunities to take a bear so as not to interfere with their deer or elk hunt. But the bonus point might be all it takes to get them to fill that tag instead of letting it walk.
I think the guys putting boots on the ground taking out predators should be rewarded. I've increased my predator hunting the past few years, but I suck at it. The guys that are good at it should get an extra bonus in my opinion, because it's not easy. Predator hunters should be the hero's of ungulate hunters and rewarded as such. As those guys are doing more for our deer/elk populations than the guys complaining on hunting forums. I know it would never get approved, but there should be a master hunter category for bear/cougar hunters that they're allowed to harvest multiple predators per year beyond what the rest of us are allowed, as it takes years to learn predator hunting without the use of bait or dogs.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on February 02, 2020, 12:19:18 PM
There are a lot of bow hunters out there hunting elk. It’s already hard enough to be successful archery hunting elk. Take away the incentive of being able to shoot a cow and a little longer season and a lot of guys will just switch back to modern or muzzy making those seasons more crowded. As someone who’s bow hunted elk for 35 years I can tell you as bow hunting has gotten more popular the last 10-15 years, there are A LOT of them out there. You might want to keep them there and not in your already crowded modern and muzzy seasons.
FACT.
Post by: Pegasus on February 02, 2020, 01:27:17 PM
And I would give a preference point for elk or deer (hunter's choice) for every cougar or bear harvested in WA state. Incentivize people to harvest predators by giving them more preference points for elk and deer. That would go a long way to improving ungulate populations by having guys spending time hunting predators more. My :twocents:
While i dont see this as a possibility just from the negative publicity it would get from the non hunting public, i do like the idea. A lot of guys dont even buy bear or cougar tags. This might encourage people to do so (and increase wdfws revenue a little,) just incase they get a chance to snag an extra deer or elk point while out deer or elk hunting. There are also guys that buy the tags that pass up opportunities to take a bear so as not to interfere with their deer or elk hunt. But the bonus point might be all it takes to get them to fill that tag instead of letting it walk.
I think the guys putting boots on the ground taking out predators should be rewarded. I've increased my predator hunting the past few years, but I suck at it. The guys that are good at it should get an extra bonus in my opinion, because it's not easy. Predator hunters should be the hero's of ungulate hunters and rewarded as such. As those guys are doing more for our deer/elk populations than the guys complaining on hunting forums. I know it would never get approved, but there should be a master hunter category for bear/cougar hunters that they're allowed to harvest multiple predators per year beyond what the rest of us are allowed, as it takes years to learn predator hunting without the use of bait or dogs.
Actually those extra points would act as a bounty and WDFW could control the interest by the amount of points assigned to each species that needs controlling. After all, how many elk and deer are taken each year by specific predators versus a few hunters filing their tags once every ten or twenty years? Bounties have been very effective in the past in controlling predators. The point system boost would probably draw less negative animosity from anti-hunting groups than a real cash bounty would.
Post by: Piscatory_5 on February 02, 2020, 06:41:12 PM
There are a lot of bow hunters out there hunting elk. It’s already hard enough to be successful archery hunting elk. Take away the incentive of being able to shoot a cow and a little longer season and a lot of guys will just switch back to modern or muzzy making those seasons more crowded. As someone who’s bow hunted elk for 35 years I can tell you as bow hunting has gotten more popular the last 10-15 years, there are A LOT of them out there. You might want to keep them there and not in your already crowded modern and muzzy seasons.Yup, of it comes to that I'll just stop, not going to the modern crowd again.
Post by: Piscatory_5 on February 02, 2020, 06:45:24 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on February 02, 2020, 07:01:07 PM
Let's make one season, same dates for everyone and separate units for each type with same harvest rules. Which unit will run out of animals first?
Oh I know I know pick me. :chuckle: just look how it is now state wide as it is without it even being that way. I know my guess.
Post by: Piscatory_5 on February 03, 2020, 10:38:26 PM
Post by: Special T on February 03, 2020, 11:28:53 PM
Some have suggested some kind of incentive to harvest more cats. The governor has thwarted past attempts at increasing the quotas. The current cougar proposed changes have ZERO increase in cats. 95%+ of cat harvests are incidental. Meaning I'm hunting deer or elk and see a cat so I shot it. This percentage of incidental take does not lend hunters to being a solution to overpopulation of cats.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: jnordwell on February 14, 2020, 07:14:51 PM
Is it time that bow hunters start getting drawn for cows or spikes?
In a state with too many hunters, too many predators , liberal native hunting and too little game ,can we continue to allow bow hunters to shoot either Spike or Cow when everyone one else has to draw for cows.
We all pay the same money. So shouldn’t we have the same opportunity?
The question is how far can you shoot with your weapon of choice. 50-60 yards for compounds 30 for traditional..
muzzleloader 100-200
Modern rifle 300-900+ but all hunters should help each other. Maybe we can swap years.. if your last name is a-m you get tags even years and n-z odd years..
Post by: Fullabull on February 17, 2020, 09:14:26 PM
Post by: Jellymon on February 17, 2020, 09:38:06 PM
Post by: Mudman on February 17, 2020, 09:45:13 PM
Post by: Jellymon on February 17, 2020, 09:49:58 PM
:chuckle: :tup:
Post by: Matth on February 18, 2020, 05:22:53 PM
I have the solution...…. ALL of us don't buy deer/elk tags. This makes big statement to State n wdfw, then we ALL buy cougar/bear tags and only predator hunt for 1 year. Hopefully reducing predator #'s and also allowing prey to grow! 2 birds 1 stone. No Disc pass purchase either...Best idea i have heard in a while. I could just hunt antlered game out of state for a year or two. :tup:
Post by: dreamingbig on February 18, 2020, 08:27:39 PM
The entire state will need to move to archery only to reduce harvest rates and or hold 1 day hunts for modern firearm.
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Post by: goldenhtr on March 11, 2020, 06:00:42 PM
I’m still trying to figure out why a trolling, argument inducing thread full of assumptions was deemed important enough to qualify as a sticky. :dunno:
:yeah:
Post by: Fullabull on April 18, 2020, 09:44:15 PM
So it's not the weapon choices that is the problem. It's the management.
Post by: ballpark on April 30, 2020, 01:01:08 PM
The WDFW/ Washington "Kill em all, or Save them All mentality does not work. set low conservative number of cow tags for every group and let it ride for 5 years.
:yeah: :tup:
Post by: GameHunter1959 on June 08, 2020, 06:30:17 PM
I’ve never hunted elsewhere, but I’m strongly considering investing my money in Alaska, Arizona, and New Mexico if this negligence continues. They need to scrap the current Department and hire in some folks with a proven track record of understanding how to properly manage Big Game and the finances that come with it. 2 cents
Post by: Mudman on June 08, 2020, 07:33:54 PM
Post by: scoutdog346 on June 09, 2020, 03:43:19 PM
Post by: GameHunter1959 on June 11, 2020, 04:57:22 AM
Maybe WDFW's goal should be for all categories/weapons to harvest close to the same amount of game and or have the same opportunity.
That would be tough unless they severely impacted the Modern Firearm structure, which could potentially make a major impact on the revenue they make off Modern Firearm hunters. Assuming I’m understanding your comment. It’s going to be interesting to see if any major changes are coming in the next few years.
Post by: scoutdog346 on June 16, 2020, 07:28:06 AM
Post by: lemondog on September 21, 2020, 06:59:55 AM
Post by: Tribal Elder on October 27, 2020, 06:56:35 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on October 27, 2020, 07:05:38 AM
Go to a draw only system. You put in for what you want, where, and how and if you get drawn you get to hunt. If not, you don't. Problem solved.Hmm, If you are tribal, I can see why this would be easy for you to say. If not, a draw only system isn't needed on the west side, the east side has an issue that has been going on for years, prob will never get solved.
Post by: Ironhead on October 27, 2020, 08:27:05 AM
Sorry but all the issues listed in the comments above will require a system similar to Nevada. Everyone (including residents) will have to draw...That means you don't get to be the shooter every year. And it will cost more to apply. Trust me, it's more fun to go help a buddy on a true "quality hunt" than to march around the woods and see nothing but hunters, 2 point bucks and cows with a weapon in hand. Accecpt it or accecpt a very poor hunting experience as we go forward. We are not going to beat all the ridiculous issues we have to deal with in this state including no viaiable preditor control, wolf introduction, native unlimited hunting and a growing human population. I have been hunting mostly out of state for the last 15 years because of this. It has been very rewarding whether a harvest was accomplished or not. It's time we all got on the same page...No matter what user group you are in or were going to end up with nothing worth talking about.This is spot on!
Post by: ibuyre on November 15, 2020, 07:59:04 PM
Eliminate scopes and semi auto rifles. Open sight single shot. Regulate to hard cast ammo only. Shut out some gmus's. Yup make em equal. All get 1 week in october rotating annual. :tup: :chuckle:
I kinda, sorta REALLY REALLY like that ;). But I did grow up shooting cast lead from single shots, and I would love to have reason to hunt with one. Sometimes I take one out into the timber just cause, but have yet to connect like that. Shoot some of those are more primitive than a modern muzzle loader.
Post by: jstone on November 15, 2020, 08:03:59 PM
Post by: M_ray on November 16, 2020, 12:48:06 PM
About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until then we are are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they aren’t to blame.
Post by: Stein on November 16, 2020, 12:54:29 PM
What Lemondog said
About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until they are we are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they aren’t to blame.
:yeah: People want to buy more special draw applications and WDFW is happy to sell them. Sometimes, we are our worst enemy although there are people that understand the odds and still prefer the existing system. I would bet that 90% or more of the general hunting population doesn't understand it.
The general tag does represent significant opportunity and there are a bunch of people that cherish hunting every year far and above the quality of experience, length of season, having to chose weapon and side of state, odds of seeing a legal animal or any other metric. It's a valid position, just not one I personally agree with which is why there won't be significant change. A bunch want to keep it and a bunch want to change. The only thing that will actually change is the numbers of tags actually available.
Post by: Ironhead on November 16, 2020, 01:06:41 PM
Washington is the laughing stock of the West, even California has better Widlife Management!What Lemondog said
About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until they are we are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they aren’t to blame.
:yeah: People want to buy more special draw applications and WDFW is happy to sell them. Sometimes, we are our worst enemy although there are people that understand the odds and still prefer the existing system. I would bet that 90% or more of the general hunting population doesn't understand it.
The general tag does represent significant opportunity and there are a bunch of people that cherish hunting every year far and above the quality of experience, length of season, having to chose weapon and side of state, odds of seeing a legal animal or any other metric. It's a valid position, just not one I personally agree with which is why there won't be significant change. A bunch want to keep it and a bunch want to change. The only thing that will actually change is the numbers of tags actually available.
Post by: Stein on November 16, 2020, 01:31:21 PM
Post by: buckfvr on November 16, 2020, 02:08:30 PM
I wish everyone would write in and demand harvest report to include public and private land hunts/success. It would provide more usable information for hunters who travel and apply for permits.
Also, I would argue the day they make baiting deer/elk illegal, the harvest success halves. I mention this because wdfw talk about it each year AT LEAST. Whitetail hunters in ne wa. will experience wide spread failure, imho.
Post by: callturner on November 16, 2020, 02:28:50 PM
Go to a draw only system. You put in for what you want, where, and how and if you get drawn you get to hunt. If not, you don't. Problem solved.That's real good ! I have 22 points for moose and they live in my back yard basically! :bdid:
Post by: M_ray on November 16, 2020, 03:30:48 PM
What Lemondog said
About 5-8 years back I proposed eliminating All the choices and going to a draw system For only one species as to eliminate so many people diluting each category with 3 choices AND get rid of multi season. The idea Got blasted. The mass majority want more choices and are not willing to give them up. Until then we are are stuck with the system most want and the Dept. is doing just that keeping the majority happy so they aren’t to blame.
BTW this suggestion was for 1 choice quality tag and keeping a general season. So really not all that different Than now but it would increase your chances of drawing the quality tag much sooner. We would be drawing a quality hunt every 3-5 years as opposed to 15-20 🤷🏻♂️ What’s not to like?
Those that still want ALL their choices don’t understand that taking 3 choices Out of the system from everyone increases their odds and in the same 15-20 year period they would prob have 3 or 4 quality hunts instead.
This is a better option than trying to match weapons and seasons to even opportunity.
Post by: coachcw on September 17, 2021, 05:44:47 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on October 26, 2021, 06:45:10 PM
I’d like to see the whole state be draw only .They can’t figure out the revenue gap that would result.
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Post by: KFhunter on October 26, 2021, 06:48:48 PM
Changes are on the horizon. It cant go on as is in the direction its going.
I wish everyone would write in and demand harvest report to include public and private land hunts/success. It would provide more usable information for hunters who travel and apply for permits.
Also, I would argue the day they make baiting deer/elk illegal, the harvest success halves. I mention this because wdfw talk about it each year AT LEAST. Whitetail hunters in ne wa. will experience wide spread failure, imho.
What makes you think people will stop baiting regardless of law?
Post by: buckfvr on October 26, 2021, 07:58:46 PM
Post by: Seabass on October 26, 2021, 08:03:37 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on October 26, 2021, 10:28:00 PM
Do bow hunter’s kill a disproportionate number of cows?No. Predators kill too many though.
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Post by: JakeLand on October 27, 2021, 04:42:59 AM
And no draw only would suck
Post by: dreamingbig on October 28, 2021, 02:52:52 PM
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Post by: Jingles on October 28, 2021, 03:56:40 PM
Post by: Taco280AI on October 28, 2021, 05:14:45 PM
Post by: SuperX on November 29, 2021, 09:54:17 AM
It would not be a case of rifle and muzzy now hunting in the rut, it would just put archery hunters in the woods with rifles and muzzy and force everyone to wear blaze orange.