Post by: Threewolves on March 24, 2020, 08:41:26 PM
I ask this this because of the following reasons:
Unless I take a bear significantly bigger than the one I have on the wall or a different color phase I have no interest in the hide.
I am only interested in the hunt and the meat.
I do not want to pack a heavy wet bear hide out of the woods whether it be down out of the hills or up out of a creek if I am not going to use it. Packing any unnecessary does not make sense at age 63.
The economic impact: The cost of having a black bear hide mounted or rugged out is quite expensive.
500.00/600.00 and up for a mount. 140.00 to 150.00 a running foot (for example a six foot bear would cost 900.00). Just having a bear hide tanned by Moyle Mink in Idaho costs 157.00 plus shipping (I got a new price list in the mail from them today)
Which brings up the next question: I we cannot add "or proof of sex left naturally attached to the meat" and I do not want the hide tanned, mounted or rugged out what am I supposed to do with a hide? I do not want to pack it out of the woods just to leave it... where? at Fish and Game? in the trash? After I packed it out?
I realize hunting black bear is unique and some people do not want the meat, some don't want the hide. I usually hunt alone and I am not getting any younger. I already have three bear hides laying around here I really do not need anymore. Like I said above I am only interested in the hunt and the meat.
Post by: Bango skank on March 24, 2020, 09:02:14 PM
This is happening becsuse theyre not getting enough hunter reports, and they want to change that. The big hurdle keeping us from getting otc spring bear is the misconception among the public and the seattle cat ladies on the commission that spring hunts = massive slaughter of lactating sows. If we want otc spring bear, we got to prove were not out slaughtering nursing sows. Thats where cooperating with the hide sealing requirement can be beneficial to us in the long run. But hey, still no hide sealing requirement for fall bear, so you can always get on it in august.
Post by: dmoua on March 24, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
What Bango said. :dunno:
Post by: Threewolves on March 24, 2020, 09:28:48 PM
Thanks for the reply. Makes sense. Yeah, (because we can get two tags) I am a the point where my wife wants me to kill the first bear I come across for the meat. She says if I want to shoot something bigger use the second tag. We have a butcher shop that smokes the hams up, well like ham. Tastes just like ham.
I think about packing one out of the Cascades, quartered, the head, the hide I got to the top of a ridge and thought screw this I don't need the skull just the tooth and skinned the skull out an left it. Got home and my wife says you should have left the hide too.
Post by: Skillet on March 24, 2020, 10:33:30 PM
Post by: Threewolves on March 25, 2020, 08:09:59 AM
Maybe you explain that you are just terrible at skinning animals, which is why you showed up with your 12"x12" patch of hide (evidence of sex attached, of course) for sealing. What's that, an extra pound? Unless you shot the Ron Jeremy of bruins. But still...
Skillet, you are the man. You give great credence to the mantra "There are no problems, Only solutions". Thanks, but I think I'll just go along with Bango and just skin it and see if WDFW will accept it as a donation. Good looking out though.
Post by: hunter399 on March 25, 2020, 08:45:58 AM
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2020, 08:47:21 AM
Yes we wernt reporting enough for the wdfw but the difference is statistically insignificant. There are 2 bear MGT units that "overharvested" shows. And just barely. The units are kind of goofy but down around the puget sound was the unit stepping on the line. The North cascades went over the threshold 2x in 10 years.
I'll bet that if we are good and dont kill to many shows we MIGHT have a chance at OTC but our evidence of compliance has to be overwhelming.
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Post by: Bango skank on March 25, 2020, 01:18:26 PM
I posted the wdfw link and the data in the thread on this rule change proposal.
Yes we wernt reporting enough for the wdfw but the difference is statistically insignificant. There are 2 bear MGT units that "overharvested" shows. And just barely. The units are kind of goofy but down around the puget sound was the unit stepping on the line. The North cascades went over the threshold 2x in 10 years.
I'll bet that if we are good and dont kill to many shows we MIGHT have a chance at OTC but our evidence of compliance has to be overwhelming.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
What youre missing there is that none of the sows taken were checked by wdfw to see if they were nursing cubs, and most of them were fall bears. The cat ladies on the commission think every sow killed in the spring is nursing. Pelt checks can prove one way or another.
Post by: Bango skank on March 25, 2020, 01:22:43 PM
OTC spring bear ,ya right like that's gonna happen.
Lot of people hsd that same attitude about the fall bear changes, and look how that went. This can be done, but we need to put the nursing sows argument to rest. Mandatory hide sealing for a few years is the ONLY way to do that. Instead of constantly bitching and being a defeatist, maybe actually try to work on getting changes made. If everybody had your defeatist attitude we would never see any change at all. Same as your attitude on the cougar proposals. Were likely going to get a significant harvest quota increase. Is that going to solve the problem? Not a chance, but its a start.
You constantly bitch and moan about whats wrong with wdfw, but any time people try to find solutions and make changes you just run your mouth about that too and say its a waste of time. You must just enjoy being miserable and having things to complain about since you seem to be so against anybody seeking positive changes.
Post by: Angry Perch on March 25, 2020, 01:39:06 PM
Maybe you explain that you are just terrible at skinning animals, which is why you showed up with your 12"x12" patch of hide (evidence of sex attached, of course) for sealing. What's that, an extra pound? Unless you shot the Ron Jeremy of bruins. But still...
I think you can just save the potatoes and leave the meat. Although it might make a good handle.
Post by: cougforester on March 25, 2020, 01:44:04 PM
Sure it’s added work, and I’m not excited about having to schedule the time to get it checked, but it’s worth it to have the tag in my pocket and hopefully contribute positive data to future bear management.
At least they sent a tooth envelope with the tag too... wish they did that for fall bear. I’m sure even more people would submit teeth for it if they provided each bear license with it.
Post by: Bango skank on March 25, 2020, 01:49:58 PM
At least they sent a tooth envelope with the tag too... wish they did that for fall bear. I’m sure even more people would submit teeth for it if they provided each bear license with it.
Youre right, they should just provide envelopes with the bear tags, at least any ordered online, dont know how easy that would be to make happen with in store purchases. But in the mean time, its not hard to get an envelope. Simply call your regional wdfw office (phone number is in the regs pamphlet) and ask them to mail a tooth envelope to you. They will mail one to you free of charge, and its a postage paid envelope. It is effortless and free. You can also call and get envelopes for deer or elk teeth, still free even though its not mandatory. Get your buck aged and provide wdfw with better data.
Post by: idaho guy on March 25, 2020, 02:14:55 PM
Post by: Bango skank on March 25, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
This was made known to applicants that it would be an additional requirement in order to hunt spring bear. If you don’t want to comply fully with it, you should nothuntapply for the tag.
FTFY
Post by: cougforester on March 25, 2020, 02:48:03 PM
This was made known to applicants that it would be an additional requirement in order to hunt spring bear. If you don’t want to comply fully with it, you should nothuntapply for the tag.
FTFY
You're right. I just didn't want to be too mean :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on March 25, 2020, 04:05:30 PM
Fair enough and perhaps it will put the issue to rest if they have the data.... so guys be extra careful out there.I posted the wdfw link and the data in the thread on this rule change proposal.
Yes we wernt reporting enough for the wdfw but the difference is statistically insignificant. There are 2 bear MGT units that "overharvested" shows. And just barely. The units are kind of goofy but down around the puget sound was the unit stepping on the line. The North cascades went over the threshold 2x in 10 years.
I'll bet that if we are good and dont kill to many shows we MIGHT have a chance at OTC but our evidence of compliance has to be overwhelming.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
What youre missing there is that none of the sows taken were checked by wdfw to see if they were nursing cubs, and most of them were fall bears. The cat ladies on the commission think every sow killed in the spring is nursing. Pelt checks can prove one way or another.
My point however was that early or late most of the state doesn't harvest too many females, and there certainly isnt a shortage of bears anywhere, but certainly not on the coast.
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Post by: hunter399 on March 26, 2020, 05:23:43 AM
Honestly I look at things through a financial prospective of how much money they will lose from selling permits .The fall bear season was a financial gain ,with selling two tags.See how that works out .To tell ya the truth I was against giving out two tags,August opener for bear was good enough for me.The cougar proposal until I see the new regs I'm not counting it as a winner for hunters just yet.But you read the proposal even in there they are concerned about the sale of there big game package. Financial is something that WDFW look at before changes are made.OTC spring bear ,ya right like that's gonna happen.
Lot of people hsd that same attitude about the fall bear changes, and look how that went. This can be done, but we need to put the nursing sows argument to rest. Mandatory hide sealing for a few years is the ONLY way to do that. Instead of constantly bitching and being a defeatist, maybe actually try to work on getting changes made. If everybody had your defeatist attitude we would never see any change at all. Same as your attitude on the cougar proposals. Were likely going to get a significant harvest quota increase. Is that going to solve the problem? Not a chance, but its a start.
You constantly bitch and moan about whats wrong with wdfw, but any time people try to find solutions and make changes you just run your mouth about that too and say its a waste of time. You must just enjoy being miserable and having things to complain about since you seem to be so against anybody seeking positive changes.
On topic yes as a permit holder I will do what as is recommended to participate in the hunt ,which I know it was when I appled .
OTC spring bear would I buy a tag -yes
Do I think it's gonna happen-no
Look at it as it sits now ,you want everybody to carry out there bear hide on the pipe dream of a OTC spring bear season for how many years.With no guarantee of changes .
Post by: dilleytech on March 28, 2020, 08:51:11 AM
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Post by: Bango skank on March 28, 2020, 08:56:30 AM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Post by: The scout on March 28, 2020, 09:06:18 AM
Post by: hunter399 on March 28, 2020, 09:08:40 AM
All I'm saying if I shoot a spring bear 5-10 miles off the road or away from the truck ,I'm going to be thinking about you the whole time packing that hide Bango. :chuckle: :chuckle:People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Post by: dilleytech on March 29, 2020, 08:27:36 AM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 08:34:59 AM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Nobody goes on spring bear hunts every year in washington. Ive drawn one time out of 9 years applying. Lot of people draw spring bear having never killed a bear, or at least very few. I know some people dont want the hides, but i just dont believe that percentage is all that large. And for those that dont want the hides, and are bothered by the hide sealing requirement, the answer is simple, dont spply for spring bear, hunt them in the fall. Because the regs are quite clear, the hide must be presented to a wdfw official for inspection and sealing. Nothing about that needs clarification imo. Pack the hide out, chuck it after its sealed. If thats too much work for ya then dont hunt them in the spring.
Post by: HillHound on March 29, 2020, 08:44:09 AM
Post by: dilleytech on March 29, 2020, 09:02:18 AM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Nobody goes on spring bear hunts every year in washington. Ive drawn one time out of 9 years applying. Lot of people draw spring bear having never killed a bear, or at least very few. I know some people dont want the hides, but i just dont believe that percentage is all that large. And for those that dont want the hides, and are bothered by the hide sealing requirement, the answer is simple, dont spply for spring bear, hunt them in the fall. Because the regs are quite clear, the hide must be presented to a wdfw official for inspection and sealing. Nothing about that needs clarification imo. Pack the hide out, chuck it after its sealed. If thats too much work for ya then dont hunt them in the spring.
I wasn’t talking about Washington only I meant the guys who go spring bear hunting out of state also every year or so such as Idaho. Which seems more and more common.
Post by: dilleytech on March 29, 2020, 09:28:40 AM
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 09:37:30 AM
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.
But they didnt.
But they did announce the requirement, so if somebody is that put off by it, they shouldnt apply. People being compliant with this is our only chance of getting otc or expanded spring bear. Anybody who applys with the intention of not complying is screwing everybody else over, cause theyre too lazy to pack a hide. Hunt the fall if you dont like it.
And interesting youre using guys hunting spring bear every year in idaho etc as justification for not packing out a spring hide in wa. Idaho has hide sealing requirement on all bears, both spring and fall.
If you feel that wdfw could / should specify only a partial hide consisting of this or thst part is acceptable, start emailing wdfw and try to get that change made. Have you actually gone to the department with this?
Post by: dmoua on March 29, 2020, 09:38:22 AM
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.
People don't even comply with just sending in the tooth.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 09:42:44 AM
I just think they could easily put something out saying what we require is proof of sex, patch of hide including at least one nipple, and the teeth or skull within 2 weeks of kill. Simple. They get what they need and more people fully comply.
People don't even comply with just sending in the tooth.
Yeah, but theyve been able to not comply with that, and still take besrs to the taxidermist. Now with the hide sealing requirement, a taxi wont touch a non sealed spring bear. So anybody who does want anything done with their hide will have no choice but to comply with the hide sealing.
Post by: dmoua on March 29, 2020, 09:45:50 AM
Yeah, but theyve been able to not comply with that, and still take besrs to the taxidermist. Now with the hide sealing requirement, a taxi wont touch a non sealed spring bear. So anybody who does want anything done with their hide will have no choice but to comply with the hide sealing.
I'm just curious as to why a taxidermist is not able to seal the hide for hunters. Makes it easier for everyone and WDFW still gets what they want.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 09:50:08 AM
I feel like part of it is that the wdfw wants to use the check in as an opportunity to screw with you to try to see if you did something illegal. Checking in my cat in december i got the 3rd degree and a bunch of "trick questions" trying to trip me up, see if id poached it or something. They seem to trust us almost as much as we trust them.
Post by: dmoua on March 29, 2020, 09:58:56 AM
Yeah, i dont know why not. I mean part of it is sending the tooth in, so there is the age. And im sure a taxidermist can be counted on to determine sex and whether or not an animal was lactating. It would be nice if taxis could check in cats and bears.
I feel like part of it is that the wdfw wants to use the check in as an opportunity to screw with you to try to see if you did something illegal. Checking in my cat in december i got the 3rd degree and a bunch of "trick questions" trying to trip me up, see if id poached it or something. They seem to trust us almost as much as we trust them.
The biologist I dealt with didn't ask any questions besides which unit I shot it in when I checked in my 2018 Cougar. He did wish I didn't gut it out. I told him I can go get him the gutpile if he really needs it. He didn't reply lol.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 10:01:47 AM
Yeah, i dont know why not. I mean part of it is sending the tooth in, so there is the age. And im sure a taxidermist can be counted on to determine sex and whether or not an animal was lactating. It would be nice if taxis could check in cats and bears.
I feel like part of it is that the wdfw wants to use the check in as an opportunity to screw with you to try to see if you did something illegal. Checking in my cat in december i got the 3rd degree and a bunch of "trick questions" trying to trip me up, see if id poached it or something. They seem to trust us almost as much as we trust them.
The biologist I dealt with didn't ask any questions besides which unit I shot it in when I checked in my 2018 Cougar. He did wish I didn't gut it out. I told him I can go get him the gutpile if he really needs it. He didn't reply lol.
Thats probably the difference, you had yours checked by a bio, i had mine checked by a game warden.
Post by: Humptulips on March 29, 2020, 10:22:44 AM
Trappers used to have no choice except having their cats and otters tagged by WDFW. A few years ago we asked to allow fur dealers to be able to CITES tag cats and otters. It took a few years to convince them but now selected dealers can do it. I recently had some cats tagged on a Saturday, pretty convenient.
Yeah, but theyve been able to not comply with that, and still take besrs to the taxidermist. Now with the hide sealing requirement, a taxi wont touch a non sealed spring bear. So anybody who does want anything done with their hide will have no choice but to comply with the hide sealing.
I'm just curious as to why a taxidermist is not able to seal the hide for hunters. Makes it easier for everyone and WDFW still gets what they want.
I see no reason you couldn't make the same argument for bear and even cougar sealing. Probably take a few years of arguing to make it happen but you have a proven successful system in CITES trapping for trappers to play off of.
Post by: idaho guy on March 29, 2020, 11:13:16 AM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Threw hide in the garbage? If it’s a nice bear you could sell Moscow hide and fur for 100 to 200 dollars. At least your not wasting it. I have a bear rug a shoulder mount and at least 20 hides hanging on log type coat hangers I posted a pic on man cave thread. I have kept all my bear hides they don’t take much room hanging how I have them and looks pretty cool. I don’t care what anyone does with a hide but couple on here throwing in garbage is a little silly at least sell it. Whining about packing out a bear hide is a little woosie :chuckle Idaho said leave the meat and have to take the hide this was mostly for the hounds men since you can end up in some pretty crappy places for a pack.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 11:17:44 AM
Post by: hunter399 on March 29, 2020, 11:44:38 AM
Id be willing to bet the vast majority of bears killed in the northeast units are killed within sight of a logging road, or damn close to it. Just bring the damn hide out.I can be 10 -15 miles behind a locked gate and be standing on a logging road ,just cause there is a road doesn't make it a fun pack out.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 11:46:08 AM
Post by: hunter399 on March 29, 2020, 11:57:35 AM
So dont hunt that far back if you cant handle itNo worrys
I'll drag the hide out in the dirt ,mud,brush,and whatever else it get put through.But if you think I'm putting it in my pack your crazy .Take some paracord and a drag stick and just drag it along.
Meat goes in my pack first.
But since you sound like you can handle it,maybe you could offer to pack it out.
I may even sneak my ATV,or dirt bike back behind the gate and add an extra few miles if your ok with it. :dunno:
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 12:10:32 PM
Post by: hunter399 on March 29, 2020, 12:18:17 PM
I dont believe for a minute youre hunting bears 10-15 miles up a locked gate. And if all you care about is getting meat, and youre doing that, youre an even bigger fool than i thought.Not sure where I'm going to hunt yet.But you better believe I do know a few spots where you can follow the logging truck mile markers 20 mile in if you wanted.most go in on horse or bicycle.
I do get what your trying to get done.
I'm just surprised they need any extra info with so little spring bear harvest.And sure hope were not going down that road of adding this to fall seasons.
Post by: dilleytech on March 29, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Threw hide in the garbage? If it’s a nice bear you could sell Moscow hide and fur for 100 to 200 dollars. At least your not wasting it. I have a bear rug a shoulder mount and at least 20 hides hanging on log type coat hangers I posted a pic on man cave thread. I have kept all my bear hides they don’t take much room hanging how I have them and looks pretty cool. I don’t care what anyone does with a hide but couple on here throwing in garbage is a little silly at least sell it. Whining about packing out a bear hide is a little woosie :chuckle Idaho said leave the meat and have to take the hide this was mostly for the hounds men since you can end up in some pretty crappy places for a pack.
I have also never saved a elk or deer hide. Was that wasteful? I guess so.. oh well I like bear meat and I like bear skulls. Anyone can say whatever they want like why wouldn’t you pack an extra 80# of garbage 6 miles? Really?
In regards to another post my last cougar was skinned and half frozen when I had it sealed. Bio didn’t have any issues with that. They did want to know exactly where it was killed which I did not care to share with them.
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Threw hide in the garbage? If it’s a nice bear you could sell Moscow hide and fur for 100 to 200 dollars. At least your not wasting it. I have a bear rug a shoulder mount and at least 20 hides hanging on log type coat hangers I posted a pic on man cave thread. I have kept all my bear hides they don’t take much room hanging how I have them and looks pretty cool. I don’t care what anyone does with a hide but couple on here throwing in garbage is a little silly at least sell it. Whining about packing out a bear hide is a little woosie :chuckle Idaho said leave the meat and have to take the hide this was mostly for the hounds men since you can end up in some pretty crappy places for a pack.
I have also never saved a elk or deer hide. Was that wasteful? I guess so.. oh well I like bear meat and I like bear skulls. Anyone can say whatever they want like why wouldn’t you pack an extra 80# of garbage 6 miles? Really?
In regards to another post my last cougar was skinned and half frozen when I had it sealed. Bio didn’t have any issues with that. They did want to know exactly where it was killed which I did not care to share with them.
They do take it too far asking for location info dont they?
Post by: Bango skank on March 29, 2020, 01:58:33 PM
I do get what your trying to get done.
I'm just surprised they need any extra info with so little spring bear harvest.And sure hope were not going down that road of adding this to fall seasons.
I hope you do understand what im getting at, and that others do too. Im not trying to be an ass. Im trying to get better predator management for the sake of our herds. This is a subject that is important to me, and i think changes to our bear hunting are a lot easier to get made than changes to lions, wolves, or getting legholds for coyotes. Im going for the low hanging fruit first and foremost
What i want is to see as close to 100% reporting as possible on these spring bear hunts, and 100% compliance of hide sealing by successful hunters. Really, if packing the hide out is too much of a burden, just dont put in for spring permits.
The only way we stand a chance at all of getting increased spring bear opportunities, whether that ends up being otc, or just additional units and increased permit numbers, is to prove that spring hunting doesnt result in a bunch of orphaned cubs. This is why everybody needs to report, whether they even hunt on the permit or not, and all successful hunters need to just suck it up and pack the hide out to be sealed. Its for our own good, to give us a chance at increased spring bear opportunity, and as a result help our deer, elk and moose recruitment. If a guy cant just man up and go along with this, wait to hunt bear until august, its not that much to ask.
Post by: idaho guy on March 29, 2020, 03:13:18 PM
People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Threw hide in the garbage? If it’s a nice bear you could sell Moscow hide and fur for 100 to 200 dollars. At least your not wasting it. I have a bear rug a shoulder mount and at least 20 hides hanging on log type coat hangers I posted a pic on man cave thread. I have kept all my bear hides they don’t take much room hanging how I have them and looks pretty cool. I don’t care what anyone does with a hide but couple on here throwing in garbage is a little silly at least sell it. Whining about packing out a bear hide is a little woosie :chuckle Idaho said leave the meat and have to take the hide this was mostly for the hounds men since you can end up in some pretty crappy places for a pack.
I have also never saved a elk or deer hide. Was that wasteful? I guess so.. oh well I like bear meat and I like bear skulls. Anyone can say whatever they want like why wouldn’t you pack an extra 80# of garbage 6 miles? Really?
In regards to another post my last cougar was skinned and half frozen when I had it sealed. Bio didn’t have any issues with that. They did want to know exactly where it was killed which I did not care to share with them.
I haven’t saved any elk or deer either but I used to trade deer hides for gloves when I lived in Montana. I had already skinned the deer and had them at home so I took 20 minutes and got some nice gloves. You could get 5 or 6 deer then so I had a lot of gloves :chuckle:You said you threw it in the garbage which makes me think you packed it out. If you did why wouldn’t you sell it? The whining about packing out a bear hide is unreal it’s not that big of a deal to me. I don’t get it but then again I don’t really care what you all do with your bear hides. I agree with bango you knew what you were signing up for when you put in for the tag! Pack the damn thing out and be grateful you drew the tag. Idaho literally requires you to take the hide but you can leave the meat. I take it all and do hunt more for the meat than the hide these days. I did tan my sons first deer hide he got it at 8 and I’m glad I did for the memories so I guess I have saved 1 deer hide. We have to check all Bear hides but the taxidermist can do it here so it’s no big deal.
Post by: Rufous on April 02, 2020, 05:08:19 AM
I and some friends have done quite a bit of bear hunting, to the point that for the most part we no longer are interested in packing out hides.
This new rule that you all have to comply with is a pain for those like me who are not wanting the hide. It is a great deal of extra work and time for something that you will perhaps just toss in the trash. I have sold a hide to Moscow Hide and Fur for $150 in the past. It was a nice hide from a bigger than average bear though.
I would sure think that Fish and Game would allow you to just take a patch of hide that showed them what they needed to see instead of the entire hide.
Good luck to all who drew the tag and I hope they will have some sense and allow you to just take out a patch of hide.
Post by: hunter399 on April 02, 2020, 05:12:35 AM
Post by: slim9300 on April 07, 2020, 10:07:53 PM
I fully agree. I bet 50% of successful bear hunters don’t want the hide. I don’t want another one unless it’s perfect and very unique. I just want the meat and skull. If I kill a bear in WA or ID, I’m packing out a 12”x12” section of hide with the proof of sex attached. They can seal that. That meets the legal requirement stated in the regs until they decide to update it to the complete hide.People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: slim9300 on April 07, 2020, 10:15:02 PM
Try backpack hunting 5-15 miles back into the wilderness for bears in some steep ass country and tell me how it goes for you. Are you trying to reduce the number of bears taken in a few remote units, because your logic would do that. Do you have any idea what a mature bear hide weighs? Have you even killed a bear and broken one down?
I do get what your trying to get done.
I'm just surprised they need any extra info with so little spring bear harvest.And sure hope were not going down that road of adding this to fall seasons.
I hope you do understand what im getting at, and that others do too. Im not trying to be an ass. Im trying to get better predator management for the sake of our herds. This is a subject that is important to me, and i think changes to our bear hunting are a lot easier to get made than changes to lions, wolves, or getting legholds for coyotes. Im going for the low hanging fruit first and foremost
What i want is to see as close to 100% reporting as possible on these spring bear hunts, and 100% compliance of hide sealing by successful hunters. Really, if packing the hide out is too much of a burden, just dont put in for spring permits.
The only way we stand a chance at all of getting increased spring bear opportunities, whether that ends up being otc, or just additional units and increased permit numbers, is to prove that spring hunting doesnt result in a bunch of orphaned cubs. This is why everybody needs to report, whether they even hunt on the permit or not, and all successful hunters need to just suck it up and pack the hide out to be sealed. Its for our own good, to give us a chance at increased spring bear opportunity, and as a result help our deer, elk and moose recruitment. If a guy cant just man up and go along with this, wait to hunt bear until august, its not that much to ask.
Yes I will take the hide and comply, but I should not be required to take one. Like I said above, a 12”x12” patch of hide with proof of sex attached will suffice in WA and ID, plus save me a ton of weight for something I likely don’t want. I don’t need another rug.
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Post by: hunter399 on April 07, 2020, 10:50:27 PM
Post by: The scout on April 07, 2020, 11:41:44 PM
Post by: slim9300 on April 08, 2020, 09:00:40 AM
No need to worry this season is a wash out anyway.Not in Idaho. At least so far for those with tags already. And they have the same hide regulation.
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Post by: Bango skank on April 08, 2020, 09:02:03 AM
No need to worry this season is a wash out anyway.Not in Idaho. At least so far for those with tags already. And they have the same hide regulation.
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Opens in 1 week. Got my tags in december.
Post by: slim9300 on April 08, 2020, 09:12:22 AM
I will be there unless they prevent me. 👍🏼No need to worry this season is a wash out anyway.Not in Idaho. At least so far for those with tags already. And they have the same hide regulation.
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Opens in 1 week. Got my tags in december.
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Post by: idaho guy on April 08, 2020, 02:06:29 PM
I fully agree. I bet 50% of successful bear hunters don’t want the hide. I don’t want another one unless it’s perfect and very unique. I just want the meat and skull. If I kill a bear in WA or ID, I’m packing out a 12”x12” section of hide with the proof of sex attached. They can seal that. That meets the legal requirement stated in the regs until they decide to update it to the complete hide.People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think that will work in Idaho . My understanding is salvage and check entire hide with sex attached and skull. That's the way I have always done it. Just fyi
Post by: slim9300 on April 08, 2020, 02:18:52 PM
I fully agree. I bet 50% of successful bear hunters don’t want the hide. I don’t want another one unless it’s perfect and very unique. I just want the meat and skull. If I kill a bear in WA or ID, I’m packing out a 12”x12” section of hide with the proof of sex attached. They can seal that. That meets the legal requirement stated in the regs until they decide to update it to the complete hide.People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think that will work in Idaho . My understanding is salvage and check entire hide with sex attached and skull. That's the way I have always done it. Just fyi
I posted a screenshot of the regs. Nowhere does it say the entire hide is required. I have a vm in with Idaho F&G and I am awaiting a call back.
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Post by: idaho guy on April 08, 2020, 05:40:27 PM
I fully agree. I bet 50% of successful bear hunters don’t want the hide. I don’t want another one unless it’s perfect and very unique. I just want the meat and skull. If I kill a bear in WA or ID, I’m packing out a 12”x12” section of hide with the proof of sex attached. They can seal that. That meets the legal requirement stated in the regs until they decide to update it to the complete hide.People won’t even send in a tooth. They think guys are going to pack a wet hide out of the backcountry just to comply with the law? Sadly most wont. If they want full compliance they need to clarify the exact pieces of the hide they need to seal not the entire thing.
We should expect a drastic decline in reported harvests this spring. But I suppose that’s what they want..
Do you really think there are that many bear hunters that dont want to keep the hides? I bet most do want them. And just like cougar, a taxidermist wont take an unsealed spring bear hide now. If you want to keep the hide, have it tanned, rugged or whatever, you will have to have it checked. I really dont think the percentage of guys hunting spring bear that dont want to keep the hides is very significant.
The tooth thing is a bad comparison because a guy could always keep his hide, meat, skull and not send in the tooth, there was nothing to stop him from doing that. But now if you want to take your hide in to a taxidermist, youll have to have it sealed or the taxi wont take it.
Absolutely and I’m one of them. Bear hunters tend to be guys who kill them on a regular basis and how many bear hides do you need? The guy who randomly kills a bear on a deer hunt once in his life is usually not the guy going on spring bear hunts every year. I have no interest in a bear hide at this point. Also I got my cougar rug last year. Further cougars would likely be for the meat and predator control same with bears. One bear rug one cougar rug one bear hide and one bear shoulder mount Is good for our house. My bear hide from last fall went into the garbage.
This rule needs clarified to specific portions of the hide if there’s any realistic compliance.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think that will work in Idaho . My understanding is salvage and check entire hide with sex attached and skull. That's the way I have always done it. Just fyi
I posted a screenshot of the regs. Nowhere does it say the entire hide is required. I have a vm in with Idaho F&G and I am awaiting a call back.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ya I have read the regs a few times :chuckle:. Idaho changed the law to be able to leave the meat and salvage the hide a few years ago. Before that you had to take everything meat and hide. I think if someone shot a bear and came out with a small piece of hide (I know you are going to hunt for meat) they would consider that waste. I know the regulations do not state the entire hide but I feel like its inferred since they already let you leave the entire carcass in the woods. I hound hunt and you end up in some terrible holes sometimes and I was told they changed the rule to get more hound hunters to shoot bears in bad spots rather than leave them in the tree. I have no idea if that was the reason. Anyways, I know the greenies would have a fit if all a hunter was required to bring out was a small piece of hide and a skull. I think the intent is to salvage the whole hide and skull. I take everything on the bear every year so I haven't worried about it. I will be interested to see what you find out. post an update when they call you back :tup:
Post by: Bango skank on April 08, 2020, 05:44:23 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 08, 2020, 06:20:44 PM
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-415-080 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-415-080)
Post by: slim9300 on April 08, 2020, 06:53:57 PM
It may not specifically say the entire hide is required, but it sure doesnt say a portion of the hide is acceptable. It says the hide, not a part of the hide. That pretty clearly implies the whole thing to me.So define the hide then? This will be fun since there is no definition that I can find in the regs. What if I just want the portion from the bear’s back? Would I get in trouble for removing the legs, what about removing the feet or head? I think they leave it up to interpretation for a reason. At the very least, good luck with that holding up if they pressed charges.
Again Bango. You never responded to my previous questions.
“Try backpack hunting 5-15 miles back into the wilderness for bears in some steep ass country and tell me how it goes for you. Are you trying to reduce the number of bears taken in a few remote units, because your logic would do that. Do you have any idea what a mature bear hide weighs? Have you even killed a bear and broken one down?”
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Post by: slim9300 on April 08, 2020, 06:55:53 PM
Harvest Check, Submitting Biological Samples and Bear Teeth: All successful bear hunters must validate (notch) their bear tag, notify the department within 72 hours of kill (excluding legal state holidays), provide the hunter's name, date and location of kill, and sex of animal. The raw pelt, evidence of sex, and the first premolar must be presented to an authorized department employee for sealing within 5 days of notification of kill. All permit hunters must comply with harvest reporting and submission of biological samples as described above. Failure to comply with the submission of biological samples is a misdemeanor pursuant to RCW 77.15.280.Yes. It was posted earlier. 👍🏼
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-415-080 (https://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-415-080)
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Post by: idaho guy on April 08, 2020, 07:37:26 PM
It may not specifically say the entire hide is required, but it sure doesnt say a portion of the hide is acceptable. It says the hide, not a part of the hide. That pretty clearly implies the whole thing to me.So define the hide then? This will be fun since there is no definition that I can find in the regs. What if I just want the portion from the bear’s back? Would I get in trouble for removing the legs, what about removing the feet or head? I think they leave it up to interpretation for a reason. At the very least, good luck with that holding up if they pressed charges.
Again Bango. You never responded to my previous questions.
“Try backpack hunting 5-15 miles back into the wilderness for bears in some steep ass country and tell me how it goes for you. Are you trying to reduce the number of bears taken in a few remote units, because your logic would do that. Do you have any idea what a mature bear hide weighs? Have you even killed a bear and broken one down?”
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I don't really know bango but I know he posted up 2 bears on here that he shot just last fall alone. So ya he has killed a bear. I have no dog in this fight but I think if you show up with a little piece of hide in Idaho it wont work out well.
Post by: dmoua on April 08, 2020, 07:45:23 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 08, 2020, 08:21:38 PM
Post by: Bango skank on April 08, 2020, 08:50:04 PM
It may not specifically say the entire hide is required, but it sure doesnt say a portion of the hide is acceptable. It says the hide, not a part of the hide. That pretty clearly implies the whole thing to me.So define the hide then? This will be fun since there is no definition that I can find in the regs. What if I just want the portion from the bear’s back? Would I get in trouble for removing the legs, what about removing the feet or head? I think they leave it up to interpretation for a reason. At the very least, good luck with that holding up if they pressed charges.
Again Bango. You never responded to my previous questions.
“Try backpack hunting 5-15 miles back into the wilderness for bears in some steep ass country and tell me how it goes for you. Are you trying to reduce the number of bears taken in a few remote units, because your logic would do that. Do you have any idea what a mature bear hide weighs? Have you even killed a bear and broken one down?”
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No, ive never killed a bear, ive never broke one down, and ive never packed one out in pueces on my back. Im not half the man you are. Maybe someday.
Post by: headshot5 on April 08, 2020, 10:28:18 PM
It may not specifically say the entire hide is required, but it sure doesnt say a portion of the hide is acceptable. It says the hide, not a part of the hide. That pretty clearly implies the whole thing to me.So define the hide then? This will be fun since there is no definition that I can find in the regs. What if I just want the portion from the bear’s back? Would I get in trouble for removing the legs, what about removing the feet or head? I think they leave it up to interpretation for a reason. At the very least, good luck with that holding up if they pressed charges.
Again Bango. You never responded to my previous questions.
“Try backpack hunting 5-15 miles back into the wilderness for bears in some steep ass country and tell me how it goes for you. Are you trying to reduce the number of bears taken in a few remote units, because your logic would do that. Do you have any idea what a mature bear hide weighs? Have you even killed a bear and broken one down?”
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No, ive never killed a bear, ive never broke one down, and ive never packed one out in pueces on my back. Im not half the man you are. Maybe someday.
:chuckle:
Post by: hunter399 on April 09, 2020, 05:41:04 AM
They make more money cause everybody that was drawn this year will ghost point next year since they already have a tag.
With the very low harvest of spring bear they should of already raised permit numbers years ago knowing the success rate for years now.
Knowing harvest rates raising permit numbers is like a drop in the bucket.bear population could handle more permits now and they won't raise it.So why would they go OTC.
WDFW is at a point with spring bear that they make a lot of money with little harvest/participation Why would they change it.
Post by: slim9300 on April 09, 2020, 08:34:37 AM
👍🏼It may not specifically say the entire hide is required, but it sure doesnt say a portion of the hide is acceptable. It says the hide, not a part of the hide. That pretty clearly implies the whole thing to me.So define the hide then? This will be fun since there is no definition that I can find in the regs. What if I just want the portion from the bear’s back? Would I get in trouble for removing the legs, what about removing the feet or head? I think they leave it up to interpretation for a reason. At the very least, good luck with that holding up if they pressed charges.
Again Bango. You never responded to my previous questions.
“Try backpack hunting 5-15 miles back into the wilderness for bears in some steep ass country and tell me how it goes for you. Are you trying to reduce the number of bears taken in a few remote units, because your logic would do that. Do you have any idea what a mature bear hide weighs? Have you even killed a bear and broken one down?”
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No, ive never killed a bear, ive never broke one down, and ive never packed one out in pueces on my back. Im not half the man you are. Maybe someday.
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Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 12:25:38 PM
Update:
I spoke with biologist Brian Knoth in the Clearwater Regional Office. He was very friendly and helpful. He had to pose my question to the officer at that location George Fischer and call me back.
I explained that I would be in the remote backcountry and planned on taking out the skull and meat (I wanted them to know that I wasn’t being wasteful) but that I wanted to take the partial hide that included proof of sex in the event the hide wasn’t good or if I was too far back in.
When I received a call back, the answer was as follows:
You can absolutely take a partial hide in ID as long as it includes proof of sex.
You can also take the partial skull. Only the lower jaw is necessary for check in.
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Post by: idaho guy on April 10, 2020, 12:55:36 PM
It looks like logic and common sense prevails in IDAHO. Eventually I will pose the same question to WA F&G. Since it doesn’t effect my hunting plans in the near future, I am not in a hurry.
Update:
I spoke with biologist Brian Knoth in the Clearwater Regional Office. He was very friendly and helpful. He had to pose my question to the officer at that location George Fischer and call me back.
I explained that I would be in the remote backcountry and planned on taking out the skull and meat (I wanted them to know that I wasn’t being wasteful) but that I wanted to take the partial hide that included proof of sex in the event the hide wasn’t good or if I was too far back in.
When I received a call back, the answer was as follows:
You can absolutely take a partial hide in ID as long as it includes proof of sex.
You can also take the partial skull. Only the lower jaw is necessary for check in.
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:tup: Thanks for updating good to know. I will still pack out entire Bear because I am not a woosie :chuckle: seriously thanks for the update I was convinced whole hide required
Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 12:58:30 PM
Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 01:00:32 PM
Your next bear is going to be missing half its hair on one side. 😂It looks like logic and common sense prevails in IDAHO. Eventually I will pose the same question to WA F&G. Since it doesn’t effect my hunting plans in the near future, I am not in a hurry.
Update:
I spoke with biologist Brian Knoth in the Clearwater Regional Office. He was very friendly and helpful. He had to pose my question to the officer at that location George Fischer and call me back.
I explained that I would be in the remote backcountry and planned on taking out the skull and meat (I wanted them to know that I wasn’t being wasteful) but that I wanted to take the partial hide that included proof of sex in the event the hide wasn’t good or if I was too far back in.
When I received a call back, the answer was as follows:
You can absolutely take a partial hide in ID as long as it includes proof of sex.
You can also take the partial skull. Only the lower jaw is necessary for check in.
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:tup: Thanks for updating good to know. I will still pack out entire Bear because I am not a woosie :chuckle: seriously thanks for the update I was convinced whole hide required
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Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 01:02:30 PM
I take it as whole hide. A "raw pelt: is not a patch of fur. I think they want to check the mammary glands for milk is part of this as well.I updated my findings from IDAHO F&G. Eventually I will get around to caring about what this state thinks and pose the same question.
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Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 10, 2020, 01:19:06 PM
Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 01:24:05 PM
I don't know the wording in Idaho. I am only talking Washington new rule and wording. I haven't bear hunted in Idaho. Does it say in the Idaho rules "must present raw pelt" or just like evidence of sex?It’s the basically the exact wording. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200410/231d6faaa89f7fa3f7e8dd5bdb4a0d8b.jpg)
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Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 10, 2020, 01:34:45 PM
I am guessing that they want the "raw pelt" to be able to see the breast glands as well. Not just the sex of the bear. In the spring time the sows will have cubs and be nursing. I think they are trying to see how many nursing sows are getting killed. They cant do that with just a patch of hide with sex attached. Which is why this is a spring time requirement.
I will be interested to hear the results and a answer to this. I still think the data they are wanting to collect IN Washington will not be able to be collected from a piece of hide with sex attached IMHO.
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
But until we get it clarified we're all just assuming at this point.
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Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 01:46:50 PM
In that it says "hide" not raw pelt like Washington's says. A piece of hide is not a pelt in my mind. Different wording.Hide and pelt are used synonymously in the dictionary, but it’s all speculation until we have a response. I think we would be able to take a patch of belly ‘pelt’ that includes the teats and vulva for females and satisfy their requirement.
I am guessing that they want the "raw pelt" to be able to see the breast glands as well. Not just the sex of the bear. In the spring time the sows will have cubs and be nursing. I think they are trying to see how many nursing sows are getting killed. They cant do that with just a patch of hide with sex attached. Which is why this is a spring time requirement.
I will be interested to hear the results and a answer to this. I still think the data they are wanting to collect IN Washington will not be able to be collected from a piece of hide with sex attached IMHO.
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Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 10, 2020, 02:05:02 PM
You have raised a good question and I look forward to hearing what they have to say because obviously there is differences of interpretation between people. Like I take hide to be a part of the animals skin. Like I have a piece of hide on my long bow shelf. When a skinned out animal is sold for fur its a pelt and its the whole thing. So will be interesting to learn what there wanting from us.
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2020, 02:35:21 PM
That could very well be true. Its all speculation this year as I don't think many spring bear tags are going to get the opportunity to get punched.
You have raised a good question and I look forward to hearing what they have to say because obviously there is differences of interpretation between people. Like I take hide to be a part of the animals skin. Like I have a piece of hide on my long bow shelf. When a skinned out animal is sold for fur its a pelt and its the whole thing. So will be interesting to learn what there wanting from us.
keep in mind who wrote those rules, they've probably never had a piece of hide or pelt one!
Post by: slim9300 on April 10, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
Nor do they agree with their collection in the first place! 😂That could very well be true. Its all speculation this year as I don't think many spring bear tags are going to get the opportunity to get punched.
You have raised a good question and I look forward to hearing what they have to say because obviously there is differences of interpretation between people. Like I take hide to be a part of the animals skin. Like I have a piece of hide on my long bow shelf. When a skinned out animal is sold for fur its a pelt and its the whole thing. So will be interesting to learn what there wanting from us.
keep in mind who wrote those rules, they've probably never had a piece of hide or pelt one!
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Post by: Bango skank on April 11, 2020, 07:00:33 PM
Post by: elkh8me on April 28, 2020, 07:44:20 PM
Post by: Bango skank on April 28, 2020, 07:48:47 PM
Post by: mtmn35rem5 on April 28, 2020, 08:15:43 PM
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Post by: Bango skank on April 28, 2020, 08:17:13 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 04, 2020, 12:01:51 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on August 04, 2020, 12:04:10 PM
This was only for spring bear correct? I didn't see anything about it in fall regs.Correct, only spring bear but they let it go for this spring.
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 04, 2020, 12:18:47 PM