Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 11:10:26 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 13, 2020, 11:12:55 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 11:14:33 AM
I believe that is also for the little natches herd as well, it was recommended. We should know for sure on Wednesday if what I was told.
Did they vote today and was the meeting public? If so a friend and fairly reliable source said they voted to implement draw only archery tags for cow elk. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2020, 11:16:50 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/5_elk_general_seasons_and_special_permits_aprilmeeting.pdf
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2020, 11:19:30 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 11:25:54 AM
I am also 100% against not allowing our youth to pursue cows in higher numbers. This state is out of controllllllll......and so many people praised our new WDFW director. I'm not sure I like the direction he is taking our state. :bash:
Post by: Special T on April 13, 2020, 11:28:07 AM
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Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2020, 11:28:54 AM
Post by: Stein on April 13, 2020, 11:29:17 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 13, 2020, 11:31:39 AM
It's all a money grab.....now archery hunters have to pay 6.50 to apply for the chance (small chance) to hunt cows. First they cut the season in half and now they take it away.....UNBELIEVABLE.Should have commented on the proposals when you had the chance. They have been out for months. :twocents:
I am also 100% against not allowing our youth to pursue cows in higher numbers. This state is out of controllllllll......and so many people praised our new WDFW director. I'm not sure I like the direction he is taking our state. :bash:
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 13, 2020, 11:33:01 AM
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparitivly. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 11:39:36 AM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season. Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss. This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.
Post by: ballpark on April 13, 2020, 11:48:08 AM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season. Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss. This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.
We were in 342 during late archery and came across "rifle" hunters :bash: and our 1st cougar sighting - running down the middle of the road late one night. Not good :bash:
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 13, 2020, 11:55:40 AM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season. Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss. This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.
We were in 342 during late archery and came across "rifle" hunters :bash: and our 1st cougar sighting - running down the middle of the road late one night. Not good :bash:
Which one was in the middle of the road at night, the "rifle hunters" or the cougar....maybe both. :yike:
Post by: ballpark on April 13, 2020, 12:01:41 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 13, 2020, 12:10:27 PM
Post by: HillHound on April 13, 2020, 12:12:20 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 12:14:31 PM
You east siders just stay on your side, leave our otc bull/cow units alone!!!! :chuckle: Don't get you're panties in a bunch, I can just see a bunch of eastside archery guys heading west.
You are correct.....and that is one more problem with shutting everything down. All the elk hunters will just congregate where they can hunt and create a problem in those GMU's.
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2020, 12:23:49 PM
Post by: ballpark on April 13, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2020, 12:34:51 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 12:35:42 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
You mean go camping while finding the needle in a haystack and then trying to get within 50 yards of it.....Completely reasonable response. Then you have to make sure it is a true spike before shooting (colockum)...lets see what those harvest stats produce. 0.002% success rate for non cow draw hunters. For the lucky ones that draw the cow tags you are still likely to see 10-12% success rates. :bash: :bash:
Now....who wants to post that more elk are killed and not recovered by archery guys....because rifle guys never shoot and don't find theirs. This is part to the problem, hunters are divided and hunters think WDFW know are making these decisions for the betterment of the heard.....when in reality they refuse to protect the heard from predators in an attempt to please the environmentalists. Facts don't lie.....kill predators and our numbers will come back to sustainable amounts. FACT
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 12:37:04 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.
Completely different......If I could shoot 200 yards with my bow, I almost be OK with a moratorium on cows....though this still does not fix the underlying problem.
Post by: D-Rock425 on April 13, 2020, 12:37:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2020, 12:44:15 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.
Completely different......If I could shoot 200 yards with my bow, I almost be OK with a moratorium on cows....though this still does not fix the underlying problem.
No it's not different. When populations are down, harvest needs to be decreased or eliminated, especially for cows. This should include those who choose to hunt with a bow. The WDFW is finally doing the right thing, in my opinion. Other than if it were me I'd also shut down the spike only general season.
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 12:55:20 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.
Completely different......If I could shoot 200 yards with my bow, I almost be OK with a moratorium on cows....though this still does not fix the underlying problem.
No it's not different. When populations are down, harvest needs to be decreased or eliminated, especially for cows. This should include those who choose to hunt with a bow. The WDFW is finally doing the right thing, in my opinion. Other than if it were me I'd also shut down the spike only general season.
So your blindly buying into the fact that numbers are down......and you don't see the bigger problem being native american harvest, predator kill and general poaching. Do you also agree with the introduction of wolves and grizzlies into our ecosystem? Did you vote for and agree to eliminating hounds for cat and bear...or bait for bear? Maybe you know WDFW is watching this site and your hoping for kickback and higher draw odds for buying into their crap. For you to think archery hunters equally devastate cow herds....as compared to rifle or muzzleloader.... all you have to do is look at the stats a few years ago when they were giving out thousands of cow tags to rifle and muzzy. You will find that clearly rifle and muzzleloader hunting has higher success rates and archery is a much more difficult way to harvest any animal.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 13, 2020, 12:57:52 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 13, 2020, 12:58:41 PM
Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.
Completely different......If I could shoot 200 yards with my bow, I almost be OK with a moratorium on cows....though this still does not fix the underlying problem.
No it's not different. When populations are down, harvest needs to be decreased or eliminated, especially for cows. This should include those who choose to hunt with a bow. The WDFW is finally doing the right thing, in my opinion. Other than if it were me I'd also shut down the spike only general season.
I think that many of us over here that spend a lot of time in the woods know that numbers aren't down. With that said, I do think the only way to get it back to where all weapon groups can have "their piece of the pie" is to knock down the predator numbers. I won't mention doing anything about native harvest because we all know nothing can be done there. :twocents:
Post by: riflehunter on April 13, 2020, 02:51:19 PM
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Post by: Special T on April 13, 2020, 03:06:11 PM
Numbers aren't down, the state is getting lazy with survey's.The only place I can think they are getting Lazy is the Yakima Training center. Suposidly there were 400 Colockum on the YTC but I've heard rumblings that there was at least double that number during the flight survey. Despite complaints the WDFW has not flown over the YTC down by the wind farm despite repeated requests from locals and sportsmen.
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Post by: MtnMuley on April 13, 2020, 03:15:53 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 13, 2020, 03:18:40 PM
I heard from a reliable source that the commission did not vote to take any tribal slaughter away in the Yakima and Colockum.not sure exactly what you mean, but they can’t vote to limit tribal hunting, can’t do a thing except match our hunting season/limits (lack there of) with theirs!
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 03:29:59 PM
I heard from a reliable source that the commission did not vote to take any tribal slaughter away in the Yakima and Colockum.
That is a very valid point!!! They only care about stripping our hunting privileges. I see what you did there and I like it.
Until I read the regs I will remain optimistic....though I am of the mindset our new director, his crew and the commision don't give two craps about Washington hunters. Until they grow a set and make the tough decisions to stop tribal slaughters, actively and efficiently hunt predators and bring down cost to residents to hunt their own state....they are not to be trusted in my books.
Post by: Special T on April 13, 2020, 03:34:25 PM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
Of that 5k who hunt that area, how many are going to buy the draw vs quit hunting elk? Greatly reduce thier tag purchases, or dont buy at all.
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Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2020, 03:42:20 PM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
Of that 5k who hunt that area, how many are going to buy the draw vs quit hunting elk? Greatly reduce thier tag purchases, or dont buy at all.
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If they are smart.....A LOT!! Think about it, if you don't draw with horrible odds you are stuck with an spike or true spike only hunt. For archery hunters it is not worth getting out bed to find and chase a unicorn. Better off spending their money to hunt other states or the just hunt the west side where they can chase big bulls.
Just imagine.....all the colockum archery hunters converting to the west side!!! LOL Instead of addressing the problem, they just created another. Our state would make horrible chess players, they fail to think three or four steps ahead. :bash:
Post by: ballpark on April 13, 2020, 03:57:23 PM
Sounds correct. Here's the presentation from the meeting on Saturday:
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/5_elk_general_seasons_and_special_permits_aprilmeeting.pdf
I see eliminating Damage Harvest’s did not make it on there final recommendation memo. I would think that would or should be first. :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: riflehunter on April 13, 2020, 04:41:20 PM
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Post by: RobinHoodlum on April 13, 2020, 07:09:01 PM
I'm afraid we are seeing the die being cast for ALL future antlerless archey opportunity becoming draw only.
If you look at the graphs on page 8 & 12 of the commission presentation, the biologist is projecting even limited cow harvest will keep these 2 populations under objective over the next few years (is it a coincidence his graph spans next 3-year package?). Given the base population sizes, there's something not right about this and I'd be interested to know what assumptions were used. Regardless, expect draw only for the next 3 years as well.
Then, think to yourself, will they actually return to OTC tags after that or just keep enjoying the extra revenue coming from antlerless draw fees? Further, staying with draw only allows game managers (and others) to feel like populations are being managed with more "precision". Which is farce when there are other unknown/unanticipated significant mortality sources (tribal, damage, predators).
I generally try to be optimistic, but we dont seem to be living in an era of liberalizing harvest opportunity. So, archers better be prepared to rally or kiss OTC cow tags goodbye for good.
Some of these have already been pointed out, but a few things that really suck about this:
Virtually no data to support this decision for Yakima herd (and no plan to improve survey methods)
Level of cow harvest by tribes unknown and will continue unabated if not increase
Proportion of cow harvest under the auspices of "damage" is at an all time high (27% for the Clock) and will soon be the primary source of cow mortality
Between 2015 & 2017, the department issued hundreds of modern and muzzy cow tags EVERY year in EACH GMU for many of these same GMUs, which is how we got here in the first place
Most other weapon users (and even some archers for Pete's sake!) either ignore or choose not to consider these facts and support these changes
Post by: MAVsled on April 13, 2020, 10:26:51 PM
last year hunting late general archery, I came across several of these "rifle hunters" after Thanksgiving thru 1st weekend of December. Always saw then on the roads, driving/road huntin as I was hiking back to my vehicle. Bet some of those rifles were loaded in their truck cabs too.
Post by: kball4 on April 14, 2020, 06:00:14 AM
Post by: HillHound on April 14, 2020, 06:16:31 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 14, 2020, 07:27:31 AM
Yeah there really is no hope especially leaving one major Apex predator unchecked completely, that being Native American hunting. String me up if you want to, delete my comment if you want but you know it is a fact. If you had a herd of goats and had a grizzly bear a cougar and a wolf attacking them nightly and you took measures to ensure that the grizzly bear and cougar could only get in when you had time to watch and deter them, but the wolf could come and go as he pleased how many goats do you think he would have left? Can’t really break it down any simpler than that. All predator/harvest numbers need to be monitored so they can be increase/decrease as herds allow. Why should we take the time to call our tag Xander send teeth back when they’re getting no information from the majority of what is killed. I sure hope our 2020 season is not in jeopardy. But the one thing I know is that there’s is not:yeah: There is really no ability to manage the clockum or the yakima herds, only adjust non tribal numbers. Gets really old.
Post by: Special T on April 14, 2020, 07:40:32 AM
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Post by: trophyhunt on April 14, 2020, 07:58:12 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 14, 2020, 08:05:54 AM
I am looking forward to having less people in some of the areas I hunt, spikes are not ghosts they are out there in decent numbers, and they grill up just fine for me. :drool:
I do feel it should be spike, not true spike rules though. :twocents:
Post by: nwhunter on April 14, 2020, 08:11:12 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 14, 2020, 08:15:42 AM
I might be selfish here, but I feel this is a good thing. Archery hunting has become a zoo. Camps with big "Rainier" signs up, rigs running the roads with guys in beds of trucks, people everywhere, etc.this was my thinking too :chuckle: spikes are pretty easy to call in. We used to hunt the Colockum when it was spike only and did just fine.
I am looking forward to having less people in some of the areas I hunt, spikes are not ghosts they are out there in decent numbers, and they grill up just fine for me. :drool:
I do feel it should be spike, not true spike rules though. :twocents:
With that said, the removal of otc cow and the reduction in cow permits is unwarranted in my opinion. WDFW said it themselves, they did not do winter aerial surveys. And their surveys the year before were fake news as well. I can't and won't speak to the Colockum as it's been several years since I hunted that direction but there is no shortage of elk in the Yakima GMU's. Not even in the slightest :twocents:
Post by: cb1989 on April 14, 2020, 08:24:25 AM
Post by: nwhunter on April 14, 2020, 08:29:32 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 14, 2020, 08:31:06 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on April 14, 2020, 08:32:11 AM
I might be selfish here, but I feel this is a good thing. Archery hunting has become a zoo. Camps with big "Rainier" signs up, rigs running the roads with guys in beds of trucks, people everywhere, etc.this was my thinking too :chuckle: spikes are pretty easy to call in. We used to hunt the Colockum when it was spike only and did just fine.
I am looking forward to having less people in some of the areas I hunt, spikes are not ghosts they are out there in decent numbers, and they grill up just fine for me. :drool:
I do feel it should be spike, not true spike rules though. :twocents:
With that said, the removal of otc cow and the reduction in cow permits is unwarranted in my opinion. WDFW said it themselves, they did not do winter aerial surveys. And their surveys the year before were fake news as well. I can't and won't speak to the Colockum as it's been several years since I hunted that direction but there is no shortage of elk in the Yakima GMU's. Not even in the slightest :twocents:
I agree :yeah:
I think one of the issues in the Colockum is that its not all open for each weapon. The elk are not dumb, they head to units or reserve where they are safer. After the 1st day or 2 it can really change where the elk are living.
Post by: TriggerMike on April 14, 2020, 08:32:16 AM
I might be selfish here, but I feel this is a good thing. Archery hunting has become a zoo. Camps with big "Rainier" signs up, rigs running the roads with guys in beds of trucks, people everywhere, etc.this was my thinking too :chuckle: spikes are pretty easy to call in. We used to hunt the Colockum when it was spike only and did just fine.
I am looking forward to having less people in some of the areas I hunt, spikes are not ghosts they are out there in decent numbers, and they grill up just fine for me. :drool:
I do feel it should be spike, not true spike rules though. :twocents:
With that said, the removal of otc cow and the reduction in cow permits is unwarranted in my opinion. WDFW said it themselves, they did not do winter aerial surveys. And their surveys the year before were fake news as well. I can't and won't speak to the Colockum as it's been several years since I hunted that direction but there is no shortage of elk in the Yakima GMU's. Not even in the slightest :twocents:
Why have the success rates in the Yakima units been so markedly low the last few years? Any why so many less hunters as well?
Post by: TriggerMike on April 14, 2020, 08:38:05 AM
Post by: lokidog on April 14, 2020, 08:41:32 AM
Nobody is talking about taking away anyone’s rights, we are talking about sound management and “in common with”!
This should be the focus. It is hard to justify "managing" only 1/3 of the harvesters.... :dunno:
Post by: cb1989 on April 14, 2020, 09:31:25 AM
Nobody is talking about taking away anyone’s rights, we are talking about sound management and “in common with”!
right... not taking them away :chuckle: just chipping away at them because they are old and outdated, not keeping with modern times. Funny that's the same argument I've heard about other rights we like. Just find it funny that the same guys that defend their own rights tooth and nail turn around and talk about
Post by: trophyhunt on April 14, 2020, 09:38:56 AM
If you think ZERO limits on deer and elk harvest doesn’t deserve to be updated, you’re nuts or you have native friends that take you hunting for weed! We’ve updated our right to carry full auto machine guns if you want to talk semantics!Nobody is talking about taking away anyone’s rights, we are talking about sound management and “in common with”!
right... not taking them away :chuckle: just chipping away at them because they are old and outdated, not keeping with modern times. Funny that's the same argument I've heard about other rights we like. Just find it funny that the same guys that defend their own rights tooth and nail turn around and talk abouttaking awaysorry, changing someone else's.
Post by: hughjorgan on April 14, 2020, 10:40:56 AM
If you think ZERO limits on deer and elk harvest doesn’t deserve to be updated, you’re nuts or you have native friends that take you hunting for weed! We’ve updated our right to carry full auto machine guns if you want to talk semantics!Nobody is talking about taking away anyone’s rights, we are talking about sound management and “in common with”!
right... not taking them away :chuckle: just chipping away at them because they are old and outdated, not keeping with modern times. Funny that's the same argument I've heard about other rights we like. Just find it funny that the same guys that defend their own rights tooth and nail turn around and talk abouttaking awaysorry, changing someone else's.
What if the treaty is updated to follow the BOLDT decision and they end up getting half the take of our elk? I don’t know if it is a wise of a fight to pick.
Back on topic...
The game department isn’t doing their job very well. Like has been mentioned their spring surveys aren’t being done and then they make a management decision based off what data?
They gave out to many cow tags for several years. And now they are doing the the polar opposite by restricting opportunity.
There are going to be far fewer archery hunters for the foreseeable future. I don’t see many guys wanting to chase a spike around with a sharp stick. Last time they did this to the nile and bumping GMUs those units were a ghost town.
I think if there is a silver lining to having to apply for a cow tag is that possibly they will allow permits in the Little Naches, Bethel and Cowiche units that have traditionally only been open for those that drew a branched antlered tag.
I’ve stopped putting in for branched antlered permits since it is basically like applying for an oil permit. I’ll be giving my money to another state from here on out. No reason to waste hard earned money for less and less opportunity in Washington. The WDFW has whittled away the archery seasons since the early 2000s when I began hunting with a bow.
Post by: cb1989 on April 14, 2020, 10:55:48 AM
you’re nuts or you have native friends that take you hunting for weed!
haha that one got me. Is that a thing? Here I was wasting my time hunting under the white man's regs and youre telling me I can hunt bulls with a rifle in December and all itd cost is a square bale of pot and a case of corn likker? Hell... I got buddies that grow. Anybody need jerky?
Post by: Special T on April 14, 2020, 10:56:15 AM
Huh, solutions? We are all ears! If what’s happening doesn't piss you off than you’re missing it completely or you’re a saint. I’m leaning more towards you are more passive than some of us, which is a good thing, don’t take that wrong. But, I’ll never get past actions that are just plain wrong, no matter how long it goes on it never gets to be numb to me.
Many of the folks i have talked to and reply about tribal stuff have not investigated any further than surface level. I'm far from an expert but barking at the Tribal tree accomplishes nothing. I dont even think it makes them feel better.
The YTC has not been included in the surveys. Why is that?
The Yakimas could run hounds on cats. Has anyone approached the tribe, or tribal members to start cat hunting? Couldnt that do more for everyone? What about Trapping? I bet they could do that as well.
I dont have the answers to these questions, but focusing on what CAN be done is much better than :bash: over tribal harvest.
Post by: jstone on April 14, 2020, 11:02:55 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 14, 2020, 11:14:26 AM
Apparently even during times of a global pandemic the tribes will do as they may. If this doesn't concern you it should, its the ultimate we do as we please and you have no say in it. :dunno:
Post by: vandeman17 on April 14, 2020, 11:26:28 AM
It was brought up early by nwhunter but a huge concern for me is how little the "Shutdown" has affected tribal rights. I thought we where all in this together.
Apparently even during times of a global pandemic the tribes will do as they may. If this doesn't concern you it should, its the ultimate we do as we please and you have no say in it. :dunno:
All while they petition the federal government for stimulus money/assistance but I digress
Post by: ballpark on April 14, 2020, 11:27:18 AM
I might be selfish here, but I feel this is a good thing. Archery hunting has become a zoo. Camps with big "Rainier" signs up, rigs running the roads with guys in beds of trucks, people everywhere, etc.this was my thinking too :chuckle: spikes are pretty easy to call in. We used to hunt the Colockum when it was spike only and did just fine.
I am looking forward to having less people in some of the areas I hunt, spikes are not ghosts they are out there in decent numbers, and they grill up just fine for me. :drool:
I do feel it should be spike, not true spike rules though. :twocents:
With that said, the removal of otc cow and the reduction in cow permits is unwarranted in my opinion. WDFW said it themselves, they did not do winter aerial surveys. And their surveys the year before were fake news as well. I can't and won't speak to the Colockum as it's been several years since I hunted that direction but there is no shortage of elk in the Yakima GMU's. Not even in the slightest :twocents:
I can submit my survey during late archery east side. Lots of cows and young calfs, over 70 in one very small section of a game unit, plus mature bachelor group of bulls, oh yeah and cougar.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 14, 2020, 11:51:56 AM
Saw that on the news the other day, un fricken real!!!! What a damn joke!!It was brought up early by nwhunter but a huge concern for me is how little the "Shutdown" has affected tribal rights. I thought we where all in this together.
Apparently even during times of a global pandemic the tribes will do as they may. If this doesn't concern you it should, its the ultimate we do as we please and you have no say in it. :dunno:
All while they petition the federal government for stimulus money/assistance but I digress
Post by: HillHound on April 14, 2020, 12:51:01 PM
Huh, solutions? We are all ears! If what’s happening doesn't piss you off than you’re missing it completely or you’re a saint. I’m leaning more towards you are more passive than some of us, which is a good thing, don’t take that wrong. But, I’ll never get past actions that are just plain wrong, no matter how long it goes on it never gets to be numb to me.Cat jerky isn’t as popular as elk
Many of the folks i have talked to and reply about tribal stuff have not investigated any further than surface level. I'm far from an expert but barking at the Tribal tree accomplishes nothing. I dont even think it makes them feel better.
The YTC has not been included in the surveys. Why is that?
The Yakimas could run hounds on cats. Has anyone approached the tribe, or tribal members to start cat hunting? Couldnt that do more for everyone? What about Trapping? I bet they could do that as well.
I dont have the answers to these questions, but focusing on what CAN be done is much better than :bash: over tribal harvest.
Post by: nohea on April 14, 2020, 12:55:00 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 14, 2020, 01:02:37 PM
Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought native harvest treaty rights covered sustenance hunting, not commercial. If the harvest is being turned in to jerky for sale, doesn't it become an issue of enforcement of a violation of that portion of the treaty?it is against their own laws, but they don’t enforce it. Check out Aaron whitefoot on you tube. That’s all I’ll say so we don’t get waaaaay off track.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 14, 2020, 07:26:44 PM
Post by: Nwgunner on April 14, 2020, 07:36:55 PM
I heard from a friend that the commission voted on going to a draw only for archery cow elk hunters. It sounds like maybe just the colockum heard only but I cannot find anything on it. Is this fact or fiction??
Fellas this has been propose since what? Early February? Then we had a couple weeks to comment on said proposals? If your just now aware of this, after the commission has voted, I say get informed. The time to complain was during the open comment period. Nothing will happen now is its as good as done.
Post by: Backstraps on April 14, 2020, 07:41:34 PM
Post by: ballpark on April 15, 2020, 07:30:08 AM
I heard from a friend that the commission voted on going to a draw only for archery cow elk hunters. It sounds like maybe just the colockum heard only but I cannot find anything on it. Is this fact or fiction??
Fellas this has been propose since what? Early February? Then we had a couple weeks to comment on said proposals? If your just now aware of this, after the commission has voted, I say get informed. The time to complain was during the open comment period. Nothing will happen now is its as good as done.
We all have been a little distracted managing our jobs & life for the last couple months, it slipped by most of us. How convenient.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 15, 2020, 07:35:05 AM
I heard from a friend that the commission voted on going to a draw only for archery cow elk hunters. It sounds like maybe just the colockum heard only but I cannot find anything on it. Is this fact or fiction??
Fellas this has been propose since what? Early February? Then we had a couple weeks to comment on said proposals? If your just now aware of this, after the commission has voted, I say get informed. The time to complain was during the open comment period. Nothing will happen now is its as good as done.
I sent in my concerns, even offered to count elk for them in the Yak herd...they don't care. They made up their minds long ago.
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 07:42:38 AM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season. Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss. This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.
So you do realize that the only one of those things wdfw can do is the bear, right? I mean maybe they could legally go against the state wolf plan, but theyd get the living *censored* sued out of them. The hound hunting and tribal stuff is completely out of their control. Youre throwing a tantrum about stuff that wdfw cant do anything about.
And then you flat out admit that you dont even participate in the public input process. Maybe you shouldnt be bitching then. You say the reason you dont participate is because they dont care, but lets be honest, you had no idea this was even happening. People say wdfw doesnt listen, its a waste of time to comment.. that kind of defeatist attitude is self fulfilling prophesy. They dont listen to us because we dont have much of a voice, because nobody ever speaks up. So very few hunters ever comment on anything that our voice is small and easily ignored. If we wont step up and tell them what we want, were certainly not going to get it. If you refuse to "waste your time" participating in or even paying attention to the rule making, you have no right to complain.
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 07:50:12 AM
But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season. Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss. This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.
So you do realize that the only one of those things wdfw can do is the bear, right? I mean maybe they could legally go against the state wolf plan, but theyd get the living *censored* sued out of them. The hound hunting and tribal stuff is completely out of their control. Youre throwing a tantrum about stuff that wdfw cant do anything about.
And then you flat out admit that you dont even participate in the public input process. Maybe you shouldnt be bitching then.
:yeah:
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 09:11:54 AM
Yeah, im a troll for trying to encourage hunters to get involved and speak up. Okay.
Keep throwing your temper tantrum.
And no, wdfw has no control over stopping tribal harvest or reinstating hound hunting.
And our director actually did stand up to inslee regarding lethal wolf removals.
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 09:19:46 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 15, 2020, 09:47:14 AM
jrebel you mentioned that the Director could do something about tribal harvest. What specifically do you think he can do? There is plenty of inside baseball details to solve these complex problems, so if you dove into them please share.
I get it...it's an uphill battle. It is going to take our elected and appointed officials saying enough is enough. It is extremely political and nothing we do as average citizens is going to get it done. We can support the efforts with petitions, financial contributions and elections...voting in people that can change it.
At the very least....it would be nice if our elected and appointed officials stood up and made public statements denouncing the actions of native harvest. Instead they refuse to because of how politicized it is. Show me a statement made by any of our last directors denouncing native harvest. They all likely feel the way we as sportsman feel....I know a lot of the officers do....but nothing gets said or done.
Now....I think we all agree that native harvest is going to continue. So what can WDFW do to enhance our hunting....accept native harvest and change the predator situation we are in. Open a trapping season on cougars, year around hunting on cougars, OTC spring bear tags, de-list and allow wolf harvest, baiting for bear, dogs for bear and cats.....and the list goes on. Instead they investigate wolf depredation on cattle / livestock and blame it on coyotes, the neighbors domestic dogs ect.... WDFW has a track record for not managing game, and until they change that.....It is awfully hard to have a lot of faith in them.
Just look at recent events with covid.....shut it all down!! Personal interactions of guilty until proven innocent!! I'm not a tinfoil wearing hat kind of guy.....actually pretty down to earth level headed normal Joe.
I have for years....and most recently last week.....emailed and gave input on and to WDFW to try and effect change. It never helps, they do what they want to do.
I have for years given back to our sport. I promote youth hunting, I donate to multiple organizations and events. I speak my voice and submit comment back to WDFW on the regular. As for this cow hunt public period of speaking, I found out to late......maybe because everything else going on in the world and my job demanding more of me at current times. Regardless....they had their mind made up.
To have some internet punk tell me to stop bitchen (using his words that are not censored) is laughable.
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 10:18:53 AM
jrebel you mentioned that the Director could do something about tribal harvest. What specifically do you think he can do? There is plenty of inside baseball details to solve these complex problems, so if you dove into them please share.
I get it...it's an uphill battle. It is going to take our elected and appointed officials saying enough is enough. It is extremely political and nothing we do as average citizens is going to get it done. We can support the efforts with petitions, financial contributions and elections...voting in people that can change it.
At the very least....it would be nice if our elected and appointed officials stood up and made public statements denouncing the actions of native harvest. Instead they refuse to because of how politicized it is. Show me a statement made by any of our last directors denouncing native harvest. They all likely feel the way we as sportsman feel....I know a lot of the officers do....but nothing gets said or done.
Now....I think we all agree that native harvest is going to continue. So what can WDFW do to enhance our hunting....accept native harvest and change the predator situation we are in. Open a trapping season on cougars, year around hunting on cougars, OTC spring bear tags, de-list and allow wolf harvest, baiting for bear, dogs for bear and cats.....and the list goes on. Instead they investigate wolf depredation on cattle / livestock and blame it on coyotes, the neighbors domestic dogs ect.... WDFW has a track record for not managing game, and until they change that.....It is awfully hard to have a lot of faith in them.
Just look at recent events with covid.....shut it all down!! Personal interactions of guilty until proven innocent!! I'm not a tinfoil wearing hat kind of guy.....actually pretty down to earth level headed normal Joe.
I have for years....and most recently last week.....emailed and gave input on and to WDFW to try and effect change. It never helps, they do what they want to do.
I have for years given back to our sport. I promote youth hunting, I donate to multiple organizations and events. I speak my voice and submit comment back to WDFW on the regular. As for this cow hunt public period of speaking, I found out to late......maybe because everything else going on in the world and my job demanding more of me at current times. Regardless....they had their mind made up.
To have some internet punk tell me to stop bitchen (using his words that are not censored) is laughable.
This is your quote. "This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments"
Youre contradicting yourself.
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 12:20:41 PM
jrebel you mentioned that the Director could do something about tribal harvest. What specifically do you think he can do? There is plenty of inside baseball details to solve these complex problems, so if you dove into them please share.
I get it...it's an uphill battle. It is going to take our elected and appointed officials saying enough is enough. It is extremely political and nothing we do as average citizens is going to get it done. We can support the efforts with petitions, financial contributions and elections...voting in people that can change it.
At the very least....it would be nice if our elected and appointed officials stood up and made public statements denouncing the actions of native harvest. Instead they refuse to because of how politicized it is. Show me a statement made by any of our last directors denouncing native harvest. They all likely feel the way we as sportsman feel....I know a lot of the officers do....but nothing gets said or done.
Now....I think we all agree that native harvest is going to continue. So what can WDFW do to enhance our hunting....accept native harvest and change the predator situation we are in. Open a trapping season on cougars, year around hunting on cougars, OTC spring bear tags, de-list and allow wolf harvest, baiting for bear, dogs for bear and cats.....and the list goes on. Instead they investigate wolf depredation on cattle / livestock and blame it on coyotes, the neighbors domestic dogs ect.... WDFW has a track record for not managing game, and until they change that.....It is awfully hard to have a lot of faith in them.
Just look at recent events with covid.....shut it all down!! Personal interactions of guilty until proven innocent!! I'm not a tinfoil wearing hat kind of guy.....actually pretty down to earth level headed normal Joe.
I have for years....and most recently last week.....emailed and gave input on and to WDFW to try and effect change. It never helps, they do what they want to do.
I have for years given back to our sport. I promote youth hunting, I donate to multiple organizations and events. I speak my voice and submit comment back to WDFW on the regular. As for this cow hunt public period of speaking, I found out to late......maybe because everything else going on in the world and my job demanding more of me at current times. Regardless....they had their mind made up.
To have some internet punk tell me to stop bitchen (using his words that are not censored) is laughable.
You havent said anything specific, and that is probably my biggest gripe on here. You only made one point that sort of on point.
Here is what we know so far. Director Suswind has abided by the agreements made in the past and acted with urgency. (more than past directors have done) He politely pushed back at his boss about wolves.
Inslee has vetoed Cougar quoata increases in the past. He appoints people to the council. IF we want to make the biggest change then we need a new governor. hopefully folks open thier wallet for the Republican candidate whom ever it is, and I bet Inslee is the most vulnerable he has ever been.
Im not really sure that sticking the finger in the eyes of the tribes with no potential resolution, but only down side is a good thing. Since the department lacks trust and that is what is necessary to solve problems, shouldn't the director find a way to build some trust with the tribes as well? Some tribes work with the WDFW some hate it with a passion, so they are not all equal in this regard.
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 12:37:29 PM
jrebel you mentioned that the Director could do something about tribal harvest. What specifically do you think he can do? There is plenty of inside baseball details to solve these complex problems, so if you dove into them please share.
I get it...it's an uphill battle. It is going to take our elected and appointed officials saying enough is enough. It is extremely political and nothing we do as average citizens is going to get it done. We can support the efforts with petitions, financial contributions and elections...voting in people that can change it.
At the very least....it would be nice if our elected and appointed officials stood up and made public statements denouncing the actions of native harvest. Instead they refuse to because of how politicized it is. Show me a statement made by any of our last directors denouncing native harvest. They all likely feel the way we as sportsman feel....I know a lot of the officers do....but nothing gets said or done.
Now....I think we all agree that native harvest is going to continue. So what can WDFW do to enhance our hunting....accept native harvest and change the predator situation we are in. Open a trapping season on cougars, year around hunting on cougars, OTC spring bear tags, de-list and allow wolf harvest, baiting for bear, dogs for bear and cats.....and the list goes on. Instead they investigate wolf depredation on cattle / livestock and blame it on coyotes, the neighbors domestic dogs ect.... WDFW has a track record for not managing game, and until they change that.....It is awfully hard to have a lot of faith in them.
Just look at recent events with covid.....shut it all down!! Personal interactions of guilty until proven innocent!! I'm not a tinfoil wearing hat kind of guy.....actually pretty down to earth level headed normal Joe.
I have for years....and most recently last week.....emailed and gave input on and to WDFW to try and effect change. It never helps, they do what they want to do.
I have for years given back to our sport. I promote youth hunting, I donate to multiple organizations and events. I speak my voice and submit comment back to WDFW on the regular. As for this cow hunt public period of speaking, I found out to late......maybe because everything else going on in the world and my job demanding more of me at current times. Regardless....they had their mind made up.
To have some internet punk tell me to stop bitchen (using his words that are not censored) is laughable.
You havent said anything specific, and that is probably my biggest gripe on here. You only made one point that sort of on point.
Here is what we know so far. Director Suswind has abided by the agreements made in the past and acted with urgency. (more than past directors have done) He politely pushed back at his boss about wolves.
Inslee has vetoed Cougar quoata increases in the past. He appoints people to the council. IF we want to make the biggest change then we need a new governor. hopefully folks open thier wallet for the Republican candidate whom ever it is, and I bet Inslee is the most vulnerable he has ever been.
Im not really sure that sticking the finger in the eyes of the tribes with no potential resolution, but only down side is a good thing. Since the department lacks trust and that is what is necessary to solve problems, shouldn't the director find a way to build some trust with the tribes as well? Some tribes work with the WDFW some hate it with a passion, so they are not all equal in this regard.
This is absolutely correct, and a big problem. But it seems that some of inslees commission appointees, including the committee chairman, have somewhat of an open mind and are listening to reason, and even pushing back against high level wdfw staff. There is a realistic chance that next year we will see cougar proposals, at least for the northeast region (i know its needed elsewhere, but this is a foot in the door), significantly beyond what we got this year. We just have to keep pushing it and being squeaky wheels.
Post by: Stein on April 15, 2020, 12:41:42 PM
Outside of that, it's lawsuits and citizen's initiatives. Any of these options requires far more coordination and dollars than sportsmen have done in the past.
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 01:03:45 PM
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 01:08:32 PM
AND guess who will be replaced on the commission next year? Chairman Carpenter, who could be replaced with some one not nearly as even handed and thoughtful. A certain wingnut from the west side.
That sucks. He seems like a good guy overall, that actually gives a s***. He actually cornered me in a restroom while i was washing my hands to question me on several things after i spoke at a commission meeting. Those arent the actions of somebody who is tuning you out. He was listening, and was clearly concerned or at least interested in what i had said, and wasnt just writing me off.
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 01:45:34 PM
AND guess who will be replaced on the commission next year? Chairman Carpenter, who could be replaced with some one not nearly as even handed and thoughtful. A certain wingnut from the west side.
That sucks. He seems like a good guy overall, that actually gives a s***. He actually cornered me in a restroom while i was washing my hands to question me on several things after i spoke at a commission meeting. Those arent the actions of somebody who is tuning you out. He was listening, and was clearly concerned or at least interested in what i had said, and wasnt just writing me off.
I think our current commission is pretty good. Replacing him with and non consumptive/animal rights activist will hurt sportsmen bad.
Post by: Tbar on April 15, 2020, 01:47:07 PM
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 01:50:24 PM
Is that fact or speculation Special T?
The commissioners appointments come up for renewal or replacement. Just look st jay holzmiller from SE WA, thst guy gave a damn, and was sympathetic to our plight. When his time came he was replaced. He didnt toe the line.
Post by: Tbar on April 15, 2020, 02:14:43 PM
Isn't Molly his replacement? Is she a sheep who toes a line or someone delivering a similar message in a more articulate manner? Honest question.Is that fact or speculation Special T?
The commissioners appointments come up for renewal or replacement. Just look st jay holzmiller from SE WA, thst guy gave a damn, and was sympathetic to our plight. When his time came he was replaced. He didnt toe the line.
Post by: Bango skank on April 15, 2020, 02:15:42 PM
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 02:24:31 PM
Isn't Molly his replacement? Is she a sheep who toes a line or someone delivering a similar message in a more articulate manner? Honest question.Is that fact or speculation Special T?
The commissioners appointments come up for renewal or replacement. Just look st jay holzmiller from SE WA, thst guy gave a damn, and was sympathetic to our plight. When his time came he was replaced. He didnt toe the line.
She replaced Jay Holtzmiller i think.
Jay was a friend of sportsmen but didnt mintz words. I have heard good things about Molly but I get the feeling she wont be as rock solid as Jay. I hope my take is wrong.
This is why i say there is a lot of inside baseball. Most sportsmen dont know anything about their commissioners, less have read their bio, and even less have dug in to find out how they think, who they associate with or who they were in competition with when they were appointed.
I couldnt find where Carpenters term is up but im 99% it is next year. He has been on a long time. Im not sure if there is a term limit but even if there isnt i would bet they want to rotate in some new blood.
Post by: Tbar on April 15, 2020, 02:37:02 PM
So did either there silver arrow or wwa weigh in with the commission or governors office when Jay was replaced? Inside baseball is a bold claim when so much is public. Sometimes decisions are made with the information provided. I don't think Jay had bad intentions but often was derailed by delivery. If you support Carpenter now is the time to start lobbying for retaining him.Isn't Molly his replacement? Is she a sheep who toes a line or someone delivering a similar message in a more articulate manner? Honest question.Is that fact or speculation Special T?
The commissioners appointments come up for renewal or replacement. Just look st jay holzmiller from SE WA, thst guy gave a damn, and was sympathetic to our plight. When his time came he was replaced. He didnt toe the line.
She replaced Jay Holtzmiller i think.
Jay was a friend of sportsmen but didnt mintz words. I have heard good things about Molly but I get the feeling she wont be as rock solid as Jay. I hope my take is wrong.
(http://This is why i say there is a lot of inside baseball. Most sportsmen dont know anything about their commissioners, less have read their bio, and even less have dug in to find out how they think, who they associate with or who they were in competition with when they were appointed).
I couldnt find where Carpenters term is up but im 99% it is next year. He has been on a long time. Im not sure if there is a term limit but even if there isnt i would bet they want to rotate in some new blood.
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 03:02:30 PM
I dont not know the stats of the players on each team, their ERA, Batting avg, Sluggers average, who sprained an ankle or whatever. To me this implies (inside baseball)
Most sportsmen fall into the first category Very few in the second "inside baseball" category.
It might all be public info, but you have to find it, read it, digest it and try and figure out the relationships. Its a full time job that only a very few dedicated folks have done and let us ride their coat tails. It is a hobby all by itself for a hunter with a couple of pursuits, job and family.
It is why I always pound Get involved with what ever sportsmen ORG you belong to already, or join one. There is NO shortage of work to be done, and there are never enough volunteers. I can tell you Ive been trying to read up as much as I can and the more I learn the more ignorant I feel.
Silver Arrow Bowmen hasn't lobbied for a Commissioner
WWA likely has but waterfowl is so entangled with fishing I cant wrap my head around it. I gave up fishing years ago. I help my local chapter a little and go to their meetings, the speakers are great and educational.
Post by: Tbar on April 15, 2020, 05:14:36 PM
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2020, 05:23:48 PM
Mind you I think its horrible that we need to explain and or do the job of some department employees. Commissioners are volunteers (They get travel and per diem type stuff) just like you or me. Many seem to be a pretty thoughtful and dedicated for the sportsmens cause.
Post by: Nwgunner on April 15, 2020, 08:43:18 PM
So you do realize that the only one of those things wdfw can do is the bear, right? I mean maybe they could legally go against the state wolf plan, but theyd get the living *censored* sued out of them. The hound hunting and tribal stuff is completely out of their control. Youre throwing a tantrum about stuff that wdfw cant do anything about.
And then you flat out admit that you dont even participate in the public input process. Maybe you shouldnt be bitching then. You say the reason you dont participate is because they dont care, but lets be honest, you had no idea this was even happening. People say wdfw doesnt listen, its a waste of time to comment.. that kind of defeatist attitude is self fulfilling prophesy. They dont listen to us because we dont have much of a voice, because nobody ever speaks up. So very few hunters ever comment on anything that our voice is small and easily ignored. If we wont step up and tell them what we want, were certainly not going to get it. If you refuse to "waste your time" participating in or even paying attention to the rule making, you have no right to complain.
[/quote]
So true. If you read this forum regularly these issues and proposals are brought up regularly. Bango does all the time in regards to predators. Get on WDFW's mailing list, check their website, get informed and speak up. Complaining after decisions are made is a waste of time, especially if you did not fight for it when you could.
Comment, join an advisory group, or email constituents. It doesn't matter just do something.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 26, 2020, 08:31:03 PM
When the bull tags for an area are down over 90%, it's hard to make the case we should be shooting up the cows.I am not supporting any of these decisions until they produce a valid survey or a presentation as to why they think the herd has declined so much. I ran a game camera last year and saw just as many animals as I usually do.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200427/fc0c8c8d90d135615bca767258e98090.jpg)
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Post by: Bango skank on April 26, 2020, 08:34:44 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 26, 2020, 08:36:28 PM
I know squat about this herd one way or the other, but having one camera up in an area really doesnt give you a good comprehensive view of the state of the herd.I was too lazy to write that I hunted in every year since 2002. Ran cameras for about half those years.
Can you point me to the survey that they did this year?
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Post by: Bango skank on April 26, 2020, 08:43:46 PM
"i ran a game camera last year and saw just as many animals as i usually do"
That just doesnt hold much water. If it did, all wdfw would have to do is set up 1 camera in each elk area to assess the herd. I think we can all agree that we wouldnt consider that anywhere close to acceptable if that was how they got their data.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 26, 2020, 09:31:07 PM
No, i cant. And im not defending them or saying theyre on the ball. Just responding toIt is a better data point than they can produce! But in all seriousness, based on the sign I saw up their in November the rut was a very normal year. The department needs to get in the woods!
"i ran a game camera last year and saw just as many animals as i usually do"
That just doesnt hold much water. If it did, all wdfw would have to do is set up 1 camera in each elk area to assess the herd. I think we can all agree that we wouldnt consider that anywhere close to acceptable if that was how they got their data.
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Post by: Thefishguy77 on May 06, 2020, 07:04:00 AM
This winter wasn’t as bad but stop the natives from shooting up the cows during winter. The end of the GPNF sees that all the time, like hundreds. But I guess since its tribal its good for the heard’s to slaughter the pregnant cows.But the herd numbers aren't down...and I would put money on that.
And archery guys kill very few cow's comparatively. Success is still single digits. And if you see the numbers of tags they are going to offer it's still enough tags to have similar harvest numbers..
Nailed It!!! :yeah: :yeah:
$6.50 x 5000 people....conservatively is $32,500. That seems like a sizeable amount of money to me. Especially when paired with all the other draws that offer almost no chance given our screwed up point system. To top it all off.....they take away any opportunity for youth. Tell me our WDFW gives two craps about our hunting heritage.
You want to see the numbers explode in that unit....bring back hound hunting cats, kill the wolves, stop the natives from shooting all the big bulls and open up a spring bear season. Butttttt wait, these are very unpopular, taboo, things to discuss. This is the reason I don't respond to their open comments.....because they don't give a SHATTTT about the real reasons numbers are down......if they even are.
This states ability to manage game is as bad as their ability to manage money. $35,000 is in draw money may seem small but think about how else they can and probably will apply it once they realize people will pay it.
Ideas for new draws
Second dear
Doe tags
Buck tags
Access keys for state/federal land
Parking areas
Days to hunt alone in areas
2 pole endorsement on fishing
Columbia river endorsement
When the state realizes its free money they will continue on course. Look how many different parking passes you now have to buy just to use all the state and federal lands in Washington. Its always been about the money for Washington for at least the last 30 years...
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Post by: Thefishguy77 on May 06, 2020, 07:14:43 AM
Hunters are very divided and its sad. I have been a rifle hunter the first 30 years of my life and recently started shooting a bow. Was going to do deer and elk this year with archery but due to a shoulder injury I didn’t feel I would be up for pitting a good shot on an animal. Figured better to keep practicing and insure a ethical kill no matter the platform. Well some of the archery guys that were helping me no are a lot less friendly because I chose to make what I felt the best decision was for myself and the animals. Dont get me wrong I am not talking about banter back and forth, that’s enjoyable. Its the elitist on every side that help stereotype us normal folks.Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
You mean go camping while finding the needle in a haystack and then trying to get within 50 yards of it.....Completely reasonable response. Then you have to make sure it is a true spike before shooting (colockum)...lets see what those harvest stats produce. 0.002% success rate for non cow draw hunters. For the lucky ones that draw the cow tags you are still likely to see 10-12% success rates. :bash: :bash:
Now....who wants to post that more elk are killed and not recovered by archery guys....because rifle guys never shoot and don't find theirs. This is part to the problem, hunters are divided and hunters think WDFW know are making these decisions for the betterment of the heard.....when in reality they refuse to protect the heard from predators in an attempt to please the environmentalists. Facts don't lie.....kill predators and our numbers will come back to sustainable amounts. FACT
Its similar with the whole 2nd amendment. Many rifle hunter say that the 2nd doesn’t apply to semiautomatics because you don’t need that for hunting.
We actually need to sit down and have small group conversations with each other to find common ground, and avoid the huge type gatherings like the public/state meeting are. To much gets missed or lost in those big gatherings. I feel if we are willing to talk amongst fellow hunters we would see most all of us want better habitat for all and the ability to pass our hunting traditions on to our kids.
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Post by: Thefishguy77 on May 06, 2020, 07:16:32 AM
:beer:Colockum and Yakima units archery hunters can still hunt, just not for cows. :dunno:
Spike ? :dunno:
Yes. Same as it's been for muzzleloader and modern firearm seasons for many years now. It does suck, I agree. The other option would be no general season at all.
Completely different......If I could shoot 200 yards with my bow, I almost be OK with a moratorium on cows....though this still does not fix the underlying problem.
No it's not different. When populations are down, harvest needs to be decreased or eliminated, especially for cows. This should include those who choose to hunt with a bow. The WDFW is finally doing the right thing, in my opinion. Other than if it were me I'd also shut down the spike only general season.
I think that many of us over here that spend a lot of time in the woods know that numbers aren't down. With that said, I do think the only way to get it back to where all weapon groups can have "their piece of the pie" is to knock down the predator numbers. I won't mention doing anything about native harvest because we all know nothing can be done there. :twocents:
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Post by: Thefishguy77 on May 06, 2020, 09:12:46 AM
Good example is going on right now here in the Forks area where we as sportsmen are completely shut down from all hunting and recreational fishing. Natives have their nets in the rivers and doing as they please killing springers and native steelhead while we tell our kids sorry the boat has to sit in the driveway until the government says we can go fishing.. If this trickles into fall it will be the same story but by then most of us will have had enough and maybe these issues will come to a head because many of us will be going hunting... I heard fish and game was out in their boat patrolling the water in Sekiu and I have seen more game wardens driving thru Forks the last three weeks than ever to be sure we are staying home but no control over natives...
The Natives have a black eye and there is no question. Many of the tribes have cleaned up their act as well. There are definitely some problem ones for sure. Yakima does have a reputation for being a problem tribe when it comes abuse of game harvesting. A all tribes need at a minimum to accurately report all game harvesting so we as fellow sportsman can ensure all of us have the ability to pass on hunting to the next generation.
My family has property on hood canal and when the tribes decided to claim their 50% of shellfish from our private tidelands for the first time in over 70 years, because tradition...
Well the tribe that made the claim had a reputation as well and we brought our concerns to the state/national tribal council. They gave the tribe benefit of the doubt for the first time, fair enough, and they raped the beach. The council came out and investigated and said they would work on that. To their credit after we paid to reseed out beach 5 years later they decide to do it again. This time we were notified by the council that this tribe was going to be harvesting again. And to help make sure it goes as it should they would provide direct oversight. They did that with tribal police from different tribes. The harvesting went well. The took probably just under their 50% this time and reseeded the beach when done. Most of the tribe are trying to remove that black eye.
The State/Federal government is to blame 90% for our fish & game issues. Yes the tribe got really bad with fishing around the time of the Boldt decision and it was a noticeable drop in fish for sportsman. Then later the state in all their wisdom decided we should start closing down hatcheries with no regard to the proper procedures to slow them down or shut them down. Well guess what? Many of those hatcheries the state had abandoned got renovate and turned on by the tribes. Sea lions that live solely in rivers? The state and feds dont do crap and the sea lions sit and eat salmon at damns. The tribes are rumored to be “fixing” the problem on tribal land. Thats good for all of us.
You will notice a consistent factor in our fish & game management problems. Its government. Often thinking money is the only import factor. When we got rid of fish and game and it changed to fish and wildlife it became about the state making a zoo vs maintain great hunting habitat.
Only if we all unite as sportsman, tribal and non tribal can we ever make any needed change. Otherwise the state will continue to do what government does waste, lose and abuse. :(
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