Post by: huntnphool on April 12, 2009, 01:32:07 PM
Knowing my 10 year old daughter would not be content simply hiking with dad while out hunting much longer, and passing her hunter education class, I wanted to get her a small caliber rifle, maybe a .17 HMR or a .22LR, to get her used to shooting and better prepared for having her own license. I had been checking out several .22's on GunBrokers when a .17HMR came up for sale that looked nice and had the thumbhole stock I was looking for. I wanted the thumbhole stock so I could file it down a little more to allow my daughters small hand better access to the trigger.
Well this one was the right price and had what I was looking for so I contacted the seller, asked a few questions, used PayPal and made arrangements to pick it up. A few days later my daughter and I drove to Cabelas to meet the seller and pick up her new rifle, she had just completed her field day course and passed hunters education and was very excited to have her own rifle to go shooting with dad.
We met the seller in the parking lot, made quick introductions and he pulled out the .17. My daughters face lit up with a huge grin as we looked it over and I handed it to her. Still practicing her muzzle control, she held onto it and looked it over. The seller ran through it with us and also included a nice new padded case and a couple new boxes of ammo for her, which was not part of the deal :tup:
We thanked the seller, said goodbye, and went inside to get a scope. We looked at several and finally decided on the Cabelas Pine Ridge 6-18X40 designed for the .17HMR with windage and elevation adjustments. After a quick bore site job and a couple hundred bucks we were heading home and talking about when we could next get out and do some shooting to try it out.
For a whole week, anyone that came over to the house had to have the rifle shown to them by my daughter, and hear about her hunter education class, she was excited to say the least.
Earlier this week we made plans to hit the range on Saturday so I had my brother, WF70, come over and we would go through and clean up the .17 as well as a couple other guns we would be shooting, he enjoys working on guns. He got here and we got to work, I worked on a .22 and he started in on the .17.
He popped the bolt out, grabbed the rod with a brush and dropped it down the barrel. After a couple runs he looked at me with a confused and concerned look on his face. "Who dod you buy this from" he asked. I told him and asked him why. He looked down the barrel with a bore light in the other side and said "because the barrel is plugged" :yike:
I grabbed it and tried the rod myself, sure enough there was something hard in there and it wasn't moving. :bash: We pulled the brush off the rod and again inserted it down to the obstruction, took a couple taps on it but it was not budging. Not wanting to cause any damage to the barrel I decided to leave it and contact the seller.
My brother left and I just couldn't get the "what ifs" out of my head. What if we hadn't cleaned it first? What if my daughter had shot it? Obviously there were several other questions I was wrestling with as well. How could someone sell me a rifle that a child would be using knowing there was a clogged barrel? etc. The seller seemed like a very nice guy, not at all like the kind of person that was only interested in money.
Well after I calmed down and again started thinking with a level head it was clear this seller had no idea and was not that type of person and I was sure would be as upset as I was. I am going to include the email replies I received from this seller, and I can assure you they are heart felt and not just words.
Quote
I am so sorry that this happened. I got the gun from a guy and never fired it. I can't believe I never looked down the barrel but that must be the case. I have a gunsmith I use here in Lacey and I would be more than happy to get it looked at. I am so happy that you all took time to look first and avert an accident. That would have been tragic. If there is unrepairable damage I will be happy to refund the money to you. I will have a serious conversation with this person as to the condition and question why he traded it to me in that condition.
I will get back to you.. I am glad the man upstairs was guiding your brother in his quest to do a safety check.
It wasn't an hour later and I had another email from the seller
Quote
I can't quite get over this..I am lost for words... obviously I am very happy that no one was harmed in any way especially your daughter. I will do whatever is necessary to resolve the issue and make the gun right. If I need to meet up with you and pick it up, I can and will do that. My gunsmith can fix it even if I have to buy a new barrel.
I cc'd you on my message to the guy asking him to own up to what he knew about the gun before he traded it to me. I have a feeling he won't own up to anything in which case I will still make things right. I have never intentionally cheated or misrepresented anything and don't intend to start.
Call me @
Clearly this person has a good heart and I'm 100% convinced had no idea there was any kind of problem.
Well yesterday I met the seller at Cabelas, we hopped in his truck and went to his friends house, he has a awesome gunsmith shop attached. A quick intro and he was fast at work, with his son helping out, also a smith. After they confirmed the obstruction they decided the best aproach was a brazing rod. They stuck it in and gave it a few pops with a rubber malet and out it popped. We flipped the gun over and out it came. They picked up the piece and took a good close look at it, went and grabbed a caliper and measured it. Its their professional opinion that someone shot a non jacketted .22 lead bullet through it that didn't quite make it completely into the barrel.
After the removal they ran a brush through it and checked it out, they came to the conclusion that there was no damage to the barrel or the rest of the gun and it would be fine, so off we went back to Cabelas.
I suppose I should just be thankful nothing tragic happened but I thought this whole experience would prove to be a good reminder to all of you that it is very important that you check each and every firearm for any problems before you shoot them, especially since so many guns on this site are exchanging hands. This very easily could have not ended in a good way and although the lesson would still have been learned, it would have come at a high price.
Attached is a pic of the .22 caliber bullet pulled from the barrel, you can see it didn't quite make it completely into the barrel.
Post by: ICEMAN on April 12, 2009, 01:40:20 PM
A great reminder to visually inspect al barrels before buying and shooting. Thanks.
Post by: boneaddict on April 12, 2009, 01:48:12 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on April 12, 2009, 01:50:56 PM
Post by: bucklucky on April 12, 2009, 02:00:23 PM
Post by: rasbo on April 12, 2009, 02:00:56 PM
Post by: sisu on April 12, 2009, 02:02:33 PM
:yike: Good thing you guys tried to clean it before you shot it.This is something I do even to my personal guns that have been sitting in the safe for a spell before shooting them. I don't even know why I do but I do.
Thanks for the great article Rob.
Post by: huntnphool on April 12, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
Sounds like someone should get a big fat zero rating in the classifieds board. At the very least.
Actually he should get a 10+, even though legally he is responsible it wasnt his fault at all. He owned up to it and vowed to take care of the problem regardless of the financial cost to him even though he wasnt the one that caused it, major Karma to him :tup: :brew: :bow:
Post by: coonhound on April 12, 2009, 02:06:24 PM
Glad it all worked out,
Coon
Post by: hornhunter on April 12, 2009, 02:07:30 PM
Post by: 3dsheetmetal on April 12, 2009, 02:30:27 PM
Post by: benbo30 on April 12, 2009, 02:46:49 PM
Post by: Aneoakleaf on April 12, 2009, 02:50:33 PM
Post by: 87samurai on April 12, 2009, 02:56:08 PM
Post by: shoot-em-dead on April 12, 2009, 03:02:09 PM
Post by: rainshadow1 on April 12, 2009, 03:21:48 PM
Great write-up. Thanks for taking the time!
Post by: RyanD on April 12, 2009, 03:32:18 PM
Post by: Machias on April 12, 2009, 04:06:16 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on April 12, 2009, 06:52:17 PM
I would say to the members to check any and all weapons purchased anywhere and to even be wary of sellers that seem to do a lot of business selling firearms. No one is above an honest mistake or intentional neglect.
Post by: huntnphool on April 12, 2009, 09:17:02 PM
I'm so thankful no one was hurt, you, your daughter or the guy that sold it to you!!
No kidding, the seller could have been if he ever shot it too
Post by: WonkyWapiti on April 12, 2009, 09:23:58 PM
Post by: 7mag. on April 12, 2009, 09:30:52 PM
Post by: cohoho on April 12, 2009, 09:39:40 PM
Post by: robb92 on April 12, 2009, 10:55:23 PM
Post by: buckbrush on April 12, 2009, 11:53:16 PM
Post by: Gobble on April 13, 2009, 05:36:37 AM
Surely there must have been some divine intervention from the big guy
Post by: oneezreiter on April 13, 2009, 06:40:14 AM
Post by: huntnphool on April 13, 2009, 10:42:58 AM
Post by: KillBilly on April 13, 2009, 12:26:02 PM
Glad that it all worked out and thank you for sharing the story. I thought that you couldn't use paypal for guns, I could be mistaken though.
Huntnphool said it correct. However, you must be careful because the comments or notes section is where they catch things. No matter which box you check don't mention Guns or gun parts in the notes/comments. They will lock up the account for 180 days and hold your money.
Post by: deaddog on April 13, 2009, 04:15:23 PM
Post by: wf70gonehunting on April 13, 2009, 05:54:26 PM
Post by: scoyoc5 on April 13, 2009, 06:00:51 PM
almost forgot great job to the uncle too :IBCOOL:
Post by: huntnphool on April 13, 2009, 06:06:10 PM
Thats something im sure alot of people have over looked
I have to admit I did, and its all because I knew the seller was a no risk, honest type of guy. I can assure you it wont happen again, and the guy I got it from wont either I'm sure, hope he doesn't beat the guy too bad :chuckle:
Post by: big iron on April 13, 2009, 10:17:44 PM
Post by: Diehard0123 on April 14, 2009, 07:36:44 AM
Post by: huntnphool on April 14, 2009, 11:30:37 AM
Post by: huntnphool on April 14, 2009, 11:37:38 AM
Number is 360-491-4310
Usually does not open shop until after 1:00 or so.. call before going....he is in Lacey about 5-10 minutes from Cabelas parking lot, just in case you feel like spending some money :chuckle:
Post by: Diehard0123 on April 15, 2009, 06:52:17 AM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 15, 2009, 12:59:18 PM
But thanks for sharing the story. Good read!
Post by: billythekidrock on April 15, 2009, 04:20:48 PM
Great write up man. I am sure who ever sold it feels very bad. Probably didnt even know it was blocked or he probably wouldnt have ever sold it. Specially knowing it was going into a little kids hands.
But thanks for sharing the story. Good read!
:dunno:
Post by: C-Money on April 15, 2009, 05:10:12 PM
Post by: catwithboost on April 16, 2009, 04:10:15 PM
:chuckle:Great write up man. I am sure who ever sold it feels very bad. Probably didnt even know it was blocked or he probably wouldnt have ever sold it. Specially knowing it was going into a little kids hands.
But thanks for sharing the story. Good read!
:dunno:
Post by: Al Bundy on April 16, 2009, 07:44:56 PM
Post by: PacificNWhunter on April 16, 2009, 07:57:12 PM
Post by: rasbo on April 16, 2009, 08:18:49 PM
:hello::chuckle:Great write up man. I am sure who ever sold it feels very bad. Probably didnt even know it was blocked or he probably wouldnt have ever sold it. Specially knowing it was going into a little kids hands.
But thanks for sharing the story. Good read!
:dunno:
Post by: M_ray on April 16, 2009, 09:39:30 PM
:hello::chuckle:Great write up man. I am sure who ever sold it feels very bad. Probably didnt even know it was blocked or he probably wouldnt have ever sold it. Specially knowing it was going into a little kids hands.
But thanks for sharing the story. Good read!
:dunno:
This is all a little confusing to me ... what are you guy's trying to say???
Rob I am glad shorty was not hurt over this... I would be out for someone's a$$ >:( and I still may be!!! but I'm glad you guy's are smart enough to examine a weapon before shooting it! You can never be too careful! ;) Nice job brother!!!
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 17, 2009, 11:32:18 PM
What they are trying to say was that I was the one that traded it to Killbilly over 6 to 8+ months ago and he then sold it to huntnphool another several months after i gave it to him........and i shot that gun probably two weeks prior to me giving it to killbilly and posted on in this site about how sweet of a shooter it was.....some of you guys replied.......that was the last time it got shot in my possession........I was the last person to shoot it before giving it over to killbilly and at the time i didn't even own a 22 rifle........i sold it to catwithboost probably a year before that at our first ever HUNT_WA meet and greet..... and now the 17HMR has switched hands 2 more times since i owned it.......So its my fault naturally. No one knows how or when it got there....
Regardless or not i know that I wasn't the one who put the 22 bullet in that 17HMR....But obviously while it went through possesion it got a 22 round shot through it some how. and could have hurt someone very bad....Could have! thank God it didn't......... that being said having a 22 shell lodged inside the receiver of the rifle probably wouldn't have ever allowed for a 17HMR round to even be chambered....let alone i have no idea how a magazine rifle would have ever chambered a 22 shell....who ever put the 22 shell in it would have had to have loaded it by hand with the magazine loaded. So to me this was no accident. or the person who did it just didn't know any better.....
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT BOTH BULLETS THERE ALOT DIFFERENT.......ALOT!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn3.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AXSwnuYXR0LAu9M%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fgunzys.com%2Fblog1%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F12%2F17hmr-vs-22lr.jpg&hash=c4da93a863f9e213b74aaf8bb24b21d7e81937cb)
All i was saying with that post........is that i feel bad that this all happened and that i am relieved that no one got hurt. NO ONE! and that i have a little more common sense to give a hazardous weapon away to a friend....which killbilly is, hes like a crazy uncle to me.....specially with the potentail that i thought he would have shot it.....that would have been terrible!
So just like what huntnphool said..... This was a big mistake on someones part....(SOMEONES.....DONT KNOW WHO!)....But for future lessons we should all be aware of what happened and check the barrel for obstructions.....
(Please dint harass me over this....If you have comments or questions you can PM me.....)
This was the last time i shot my rifle before i traded it to killbilly. Almost a year ago in June.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,7686.0.html
and again thanks God no one got hurt.....! Specially the little one....
Post by: Aneoakleaf on April 18, 2009, 12:29:31 AM
Post by: tmike on April 18, 2009, 01:54:20 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on April 18, 2009, 06:00:21 AM
I Hope Shorty is enjoying her gun by now. It seams this gun has passed threw several hands in the last couple years and somehow none of the owners has an idea how or when the gun got pluged. The bottom line is ...someone who never had permission to handle the gun HAS handeled it and hand loaded it with the wrong shell. Now having had 5 kids ...I can tell you that one of them sometime is going to and did in this house , have his friends shooting guns here without permission. There was no amo unlocked. they brought their own. It can happen anywhere unless there's a trigger lock. This case was long before the locks came along. I hope you all will use the locks and check ALL your guns before using them. Thank God for the big things in life! ;)
Well said.
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on April 19, 2009, 03:32:13 PM
I was the last person to shoot it before giving it over to killbilly and at the time I didn't even own a 22 rifle.
Yeah but I thought Killbilly had loaned you one of his .22's to shoot after your shoulder surgery. You didn't have any .22 bullets left over after returning it?
No one except you had access to the .17? A buddy of yours didn't decide to borrow the gun and put the round through it? With out thinking you grabbed a hand full of shells and loaded them into the magazine?
and now the 17HMR has switched hands 2 more times since I owned it.......
Regardless or not i know that I wasn't the one who put the 22 bullet in that 17HMR....But obviously while it went through possesion it got a 22 round shot through it some how.
I have met and talked with Killbilly on several occasions. I have been friends with Billythekidrock (Killbillys hunting partner) since before I moved back to Washington back in July of 07. . . . . . I am pretty sure Killbilly and BTKR have known each other for around 40 years?
I can't see Killbilly lying over something like this. If he says he didn't shoot the rifle between getting it from you and selling in to huntnphool than he didn't.
Killbilly isn't stupid enough to try and shoot a .22 through a .17.
BUT IF YOU LOOK AT BOTH BULLETS THERE ALOT DIFFERENT.......ALOT!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fgunzys.com%2Fblog1%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F12%2F17hmr-vs-22lr.jpg&hash=38f19bae84f40c1bec3fed780389dce7140ef196)
If you don't have a .22 or a .17cwhere did you get the shells for the pic?
Post by: M_ray on April 19, 2009, 06:22:30 PM
That's the magic question everyone is asking??? It looks an awful lot like the .22 that Huntnphool pulled out of the barrel? :dunno:
Post by: billythekidrock on April 19, 2009, 07:03:29 PM
:yeah:
That's the magic question everyone is asking??? It looks an awful lot like the .22 that Huntnphool pulled out of the barrel? :dunno:
I agree.
Post by: catwithboost on April 19, 2009, 07:05:16 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on April 19, 2009, 07:30:27 PM
I have always had an anal habit of looking down the barrel of my rifle (still sounds bad every time I say it :o) before and after I clean it.
If Killbilly didn't shoot the rifle and Huntphool didn't shoot the rifle. I am pretty sure both have gun safes and it would be pretty hard for someone to sneak off with the .17 and shoot a .22 shell through it. Killbilly and Huntnphool didn't shoot the rifle before the obstruction was found.
It had to have been fired either by you Jay, or someone close to you. Maybe you should start asking your friends and family if the may have barrowed your .17.
You say Killbily is like an uncle to you. Why would you call him a liar by suggesting that it was shot after he received it? After he told you he never fired it!
As for huntnphool, I have talked guns with him on more than a few occasions. He knows his rifles. Their is no way he is dumb enough to try shooting a .22 bullet through a .17 rifle.
I'm not even that stupid and I don't have a 1/10 of the gun knowledge that those guys do.
The obstruction was put their while you owned the rifle Jay. Wether you did it or not. I think you should either come forward and confess or ask around and find out who took your gun with out your permission!
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on April 19, 2009, 07:35:24 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 19, 2009, 07:44:26 PM
Quote
Great write up man. I am sure who ever sold it feels very bad. Probably didnt even know it was blocked or he probably wouldnt have ever sold it. Specially knowing it was going into a little kids hands.
But thanks for sharing the story. Good read!
appears pretty weasel to me. Michelle had so many good points I can't even keep track. This was probably an instance when you should have kept your mouth shut and learned something. NOT make excuses.
Post by: M_ray on April 19, 2009, 07:46:22 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Fdarwin%2F3.gif&hash=33fd5170cd66ade42fec959c1182b95bfd36b7a6)
Post by: M_ray on April 19, 2009, 07:47:38 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbestsmileys.com%2Ffoot_in_mouth%2F1.gif&hash=c749d5b92cb01ffe429abb18880df5eab030f6f0)
Post by: boneaddict on April 19, 2009, 07:55:34 PM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 20, 2009, 09:56:00 AM
Well ill try to answer your questions..... try .....
I found the 17 and 22 picture off google images....
The 22 question.....well i didnt own a 22 at the time...yes i borrowed killbillys 22 after my surgery, but i believe i gave it back to him before i ever got the 17HMR...and i believe i really cant remember but i believe the copper plated high velocity hollow point shells that i bought for killbillys gun that i still have are different than the cheep non copper jacketed 22 shell that was found in the rifle......
And the only person who had access to my rifle in the lake house community that i lived at was my wife. SHE doesnt touch my guns...doesnt like em....I thought for a while that my little bro might have done it....maybe i took him out and there was an accident...But i couldnt remember taking him out shooting it.....But i asked him anyways and he said he wish he did but never got a chance....said he really liked the caliber.....So he didnt shoot it....never got a chance....but yes i did have killbillys 22 for a while....and still have left over bullets from it. I also borrowed Catwithboosts 25 pistol at the same time.....still have bullets from that also....
LIKE I SAID I WAS THE ONLY ONE TO SHOOT THE 17 hmr.............
AND I WAS NEVER ACCUSING KILLBILLY.....I would never do that....IM NOT ACCUSING ANYONE! and thats great you have all known killbilly longer than me.....I dont care i still know him and still consider him a friend....so far he is the only one not pointing fingers at me........he like huntnphool realized there was an accident and just want people to be aware of the accident....not point fingers....
i really honestly have no idea how that 22 shell got in it......tried thinking but cant remember.
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 20, 2009, 09:57:50 AM
maybe there was already a bullet loaded in the magazine....not sure....But like i said.....AS FAR AS I KNOW.....I DID NOT PUT A 22 BULLET IN THAT RIFLE.....THATs ALL I WAS TRYING TO SAY......
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 20, 2009, 10:08:58 AM
you guys all sit there read what we have all posted and then you ask your questions....and we sit here wondering what the heck happened...trying to answer your questions.....
I HAVE RAN THOUGH MY HEAD A HUNDRED TIMES THINKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED OVER A YEAR AGO AND WHAT COULD HAVE, AND WHAT I MIGHT HAVE DONE....
IM SORRY FOR WHAT HAPPENED. AND IM NOT SAYING I DIDNT HAND OVER THAT RIFLE PLUGGED. BUT I AM SAYING THAT I DIDNT HAND LOAD THAT 22 SHELL INTO THAT RIFLE.
I AM SO HAPPY THAT NOTHING HAPPENED AND AGAIN........I AM SO SORRY FOR WHAT HAPPENED. THIS ALL SUCKS! THE SITUATION IS TERRIABLE. IM JUST HAPPY NO ONE GOT HURT........!
Post by: M_ray on April 20, 2009, 10:20:20 AM
You know Jay no one pointed fingers at you until it was clear you seemed to not want any responsibility in this, that's when all the questions came up??? if you had got on it right away with this information and the pinning your little bro down for a response your image would have been way different. You almost seemed to dodge the problem at first and did not want to have much do do with it and no urgency to help with info. Things would have turned out way different on your part with a willingness to take some responsibility in the fixing of this for being a previous owner rather than a defensive posture. Killbilly wasn't defensive he was willing to help from the start offering to pay to have the problem fixed and return payment if it was unrepairable. He didn't blame you or push off the responsibility of his ownership he had accountability! That is the big difference here!
Post by: Gobble on April 20, 2009, 10:21:20 AM
Post by: Gearhead1940 on April 20, 2009, 11:09:20 AM
Makes me also feel great about the last gunshow buy - one of those lucite bore devices for lighting up a barrel. It's going with me every gunshow!
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 20, 2009, 02:17:30 PM
I appoligies for anything i did.....and can appriciate a good scoulding everyonce in a while...this time is deffinantly an eye opener.
and if theres anything more i can do for anyone if this hasnt all been resolved you let me know and ill do what i can to help im sorry if i didnt make that clearer earlier.
I know for sure that regardless of whether i shoot a gun once or a million times i will no matter what clean the barrel or run a rod down it the day i give it away. Even if i dont have a rod to clean it or not, ill go buy one.................Insurance for next time......for me and for everyone else.
Post by: huntnphool on April 20, 2009, 03:32:46 PM
Peace guys. Lets just say we ALL learned an important lesson here and MOVE ON. It's very fortunate that no one got hurt and we all learned the importance of checking a new rifle and not taking anything for granted. I'm sure there was no intentions on anyones part. :twocents:
Agreed Gobble
Post by: scoyoc5 on April 20, 2009, 04:21:34 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 20, 2009, 04:28:58 PM
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 20, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
agreed.....again, my appoligies.Peace guys. Lets just say we ALL learned an important lesson here and MOVE ON. It's very fortunate that no one got hurt and we all learned the importance of checking a new rifle and not taking anything for granted. I'm sure there was no intentions on anyones part. :twocents:
Agreed Gobble
Post by: huntnphool on April 20, 2009, 06:54:27 PM
Just a final thought for everyone as I lock this thread.
Post by: bow4elk on August 18, 2009, 09:01:28 PM
I'm SOOOOOOO glad this story has a happy ending. And for what it's worth, the seller deserves a pat on the back for standing up and doing the right thing, regardless of what transpired up to when he acquired the gun.
Looks like a great opportunity to circle back to the hunter education class and let your daughter tell the story to another class of students. I think that could have a ton of impact and help spread the moral of this situation.
Post by: billythekidrock on August 18, 2009, 09:48:38 PM
Looks like a great opportunity to circle back to the hunter education class and let your daughter tell the story to another class of students. I think that could have a ton of impact and help spread the moral of this situation.
That is a very good idea.