Post by: bornhunter on July 12, 2020, 09:24:53 AM
Post by: bornhunter on July 12, 2020, 09:30:46 AM
Post by: Dan-o on July 12, 2020, 10:24:36 AM
When was the attack?
Post by: Tracker0721 on July 12, 2020, 11:26:31 AM
Post by: KFhunter on July 12, 2020, 11:28:17 AM
Yeah I’m a bit confused, I thought they’d already reached the culling point.
Yeah, they did about 10 calves ago.
WDFW was told by Inslee to not kill them
Post by: bornhunter on July 12, 2020, 09:56:34 PM
:bash: :bash:
When was the attack?
Yesterday according to the article.
Post by: bornhunter on July 12, 2020, 09:58:06 PM
Yeah I’m a bit confused, I thought they’d already reached the culling point.
I believe it was reached in May and this attack was saturday.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 13, 2020, 05:43:04 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2020, 09:41:59 AM
Post by: jstone on July 13, 2020, 09:45:56 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on July 13, 2020, 01:27:31 PM
Post by: Dan-o on July 13, 2020, 02:42:30 PM
Is it a matter of once past the threshhold they "consider" culling, or are they supposed to cull?
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 13, 2020, 09:02:51 PM
I asked what he was looking for. Said that he was a Stevens county cattleman and was riding to discourage any wolf attacks. I told him that he was the first range rider I had seen in all the years they had been doing this.
We had a good visit and I can say that he was very informative about the current state of area.
He did hand me his business card and asked if during my wanderings i I saw something to give him a call. I would call him with no question.
Post by: KFhunter on July 13, 2020, 09:41:22 PM
I was trailing a pack of wolves once and they suddenly stopped, made a left turn and did a half moon shape, then back into their trail they were going on originally.
I wondered why the did that, so went to the center of the half moon and there was a border patrol sitting there bored out of his mind. He had no idea wolves had just skirted around him.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on July 13, 2020, 09:53:07 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 13, 2020, 09:54:00 PM
When you say you were trailing a pack of wolves, what do you mean?
following very fresh tracks in the snow with my snowmobile
I was looking for lion tracks, cause I had a mt lion tag in my pocket and a backpack full of calls and decoys :tup:
Post by: Buckhunter24 on July 13, 2020, 09:58:35 PM
Post by: buglebrush on July 13, 2020, 10:45:49 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 14, 2020, 05:48:48 AM
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on July 15, 2020, 02:09:32 PM
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?
And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).
And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.
It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
Post by: KFhunter on July 15, 2020, 03:01:34 PM
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?
This statement above is full of half truths and misconceptions. The Diamond M is the largest cattle ranch by far in the area where the wolves first took a major foothold in Washington. Of course they're going to have the most problems. Also, a lot of the depredations (and all of the depredations prior to June) was all on private land.
I don't have the exact number, but I think it was a majority of the total depredations did occur on private lands. This is victim shaming and ousting the name of the ranch involved which WDFW decided to withhold that information due to public threats...yet here you are ousting them?
And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).
The range riding was inconsistent because it was full of grift, and was front loaded with pro-wolf agenda people. The ranchers had a major distrust for the range rider program, as they should have. The first range rider on the wedge was some old hippy who drove up in his truck, went down a few back roads then left about 15 minutes later. Now, the range rider program has improved greatly, but its still more of a cattle corpse finding operation than it is prevention. This ranch ate the range rider cost for years, they do it themselves, but the state will not allow them to kill wolves unless caught in the act, which is dammed difficult if WDFW won't tell you where the wolves are!
And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.
That goes back to what I was saying earlier, there's simply too much ground to cover with little to no visibility, and due to WDFW abject failure to collar wolves (and share that info) it was set up for failure from the get go. It cannot succeed without 1) a lot of wolves collared and 2) a lot of range riders and 3) information sharing with range riders
It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
This is another half-truth at best, according to WDFW the ranch has complied with ALL conflict avoidance measures including fladery, range riders, strobes, hazing and other crap that don't and won't ever work.
You won't be able to come on HW and spread half-truths and misconceptions, nor will you get to victim shame the ranchers who are trying their best to run a ranch and comply with WDFW conflict specialists.
You're either seriously mislead, or spreading lies on purpose.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 15, 2020, 03:42:50 PM
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?
And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).
And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.
It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
Are you joking? Diamond M has been there for generations. The wolves were exterminated there for a reason - they don't belong there. If they belong anywhere in WA, they belong way up in the mountains in wilderness areas where they can decimate elk and deer populations. The WDF&Wolves allowed the Canadian wolves into the state about 16 years ago without a plan in place, promising reparations to ranchers who had verified wolf predation. These predations have been verified and reverified, and reverified. There is no ROI in the plan that says after so many years the ranchers will stop being paid. They will be payed...by endless taxpayer dollars into a program that never should have happened in the first place. Non-lethal measures have been shoved down the same throats that the whole, horrible wolf plan was. The two ranches you're talking about are, I believe, the two biggest in the state and have the most at risk. They supply most of us with beef. As the prices of meat continues to rise, that's the ROI we should be thinking about and making it so that these people are able to stay in business and continue to feed our people and manage the land their families have had for over 100 years.
Post by: westside bull on July 15, 2020, 05:16:44 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on July 15, 2020, 05:39:19 PM
Are they tracking with airplanes,. Had one flying the area yesterday
Post by: ribka on July 15, 2020, 06:49:55 PM
I see Mitch friedman, the self admitted eco terrorist and anti hunting advocate, is paying you to post lies and misinformation again. You've been called out on multiple lies on here then ran away. Is CNW running out of scam money again like your wolf psychologist and the range riders? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I see you're now trying to profit off of AOC's green energy scam now
https://www.conservationnw.org/conservation-can-create-jobs/
and now the social justice
https://www.conservationnw.org/commitment-to-justice-equity-diversity-and-inclusion/
No one on here believes your nonsense. Before you post you should remind people on here you are a paid propagandist for the anti hunting CNW.
Ask Mitch when he spent 20 years in the eco terrorist group Earth First and was spiking thousands of trees to shut down logging if he ever paid the hospital bills of hard working loggers who were injured and missed work because of his activity of illegally and criminally spiking trees.
And a big thanks to Mitch for helping ruin mule deer, moose and elk hunting here in Washington, N ID and E Oregon. And a another big thanks to Mitch for wiping out the mountain caribou herds in N ID and BC.
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?
And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).
And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.
It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
Post by: Dale Gribble on July 15, 2020, 06:59:37 PM
Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.
Post by: ribka on July 15, 2020, 07:07:26 PM
:yeah:
Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.
He has a communications degree ( no science, math classes) but lectures others on wildlife management and science like everyone else are ignorant uneducated children. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
And you can thank CNW for shutting down all timber management so we now have huge fires all over the west destroying wildlife habitat. These folks are dangerous idiots.
Chase I just checked out CNW's social media. Wow CNW was really pushing the Cascade griz re introduction. Guessing CNW must have really wanted to monetize that after making a mint off of the failed wolf introduction.
Just more parasitic activity
Post by: Ridgeratt on July 16, 2020, 07:09:47 AM
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?
And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).
And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.
It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
https://chewelahindependent.com/wdfw-refers-range-rider-inconsistencies-to-prosecutors/
MORE WOLF DRAMA: Investigation singles out two range riders who filed hours for work in Stevens County when they were allegedly in Spokane…
The Spokesman-Review is reporting that a WDFW investigation alleges that two range riders were in Spokane when they were supposed to be in Ferry County as part of nonlethal deterrents against wolves. WDFW has turned in their investigation findings to a Thurston County prosecutor, Eli Francovich reports.
The range riders denied the allegations to the Spokesman-Review.
According to the investigation, range riders Arron and Jolene Scotten said they worked and were paid for days they did not work.
WDFW recommended second degree theft chargers be brought up against the two range riders. On Sept. 4 and 5, they claimed to have worked a combined 25 hours, but were allegedly in Spokane buying building supplies. On Sept. 18, Scotten claimed to have worked seven hours, but the investigation said he stayed the night at the Davenport Hotel on Sept. 18 and 19. Jolene Scotten claimed to have worked eight hours on Sept. 19 but phone records place her in Spokane.
WDFW contracts out $352,000 total in range rider contracts. The state agency manages the range riders, not the cattle producers. The state alleges that the Scottens stole around $2,000.
Conservation Northwest released a statement saying that the range riders were not under contract with the conservation group, but that they do operate their own range rider pilot program.
Arron Scotten told the Spokesman-Review that he loans his phone out which is why the phone records show him in Spokane.
He did not get a state contract in 2019 because of the WDFW investigation.
The Spokesman-Review reported that Scotten had teamed up with former WDFW biologist and Chewelah resident Jay Shepherd to form the Northeast Washington Wolf-Cattle Collaborative. Scotten resigned his seat on the board of the collaborative on Nov. 9, 2018, Shepherd told the Spokane paper, saying that he wanted to be paid by the organization but that it is illegal for board members to be paid by the nonprofit they serve.
Shepard said shortly after he resigned, they learned of the WDFW investigation into him. He also told the Spokesman that people should use caution in drawing conclusions since its a politicized issue.
Some conservation groups point out that wolf depredations occurred when the Scottens should have been patrolling. Some of these depredations led to lethal removal of wolves.
Chase
Why is it that you claim no affiliation to the Range riders who abused the program, But one of your own members of CNW formed the collaboration that they were being perhaps funded by?
Your website lists this person as the Wolf Lead?
https://www.conservationnw.org/meet-our-staff/jay-shepherd/
Is this just coincidence?
Post by: ribka on July 16, 2020, 09:38:33 AM
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business?
And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?).
And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.
It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
https://chewelahindependent.com/wdfw-refers-range-rider-inconsistencies-to-prosecutors/
MORE WOLF DRAMA: Investigation singles out two range riders who filed hours for work in Stevens County when they were allegedly in Spokane…
The Spokesman-Review is reporting that a WDFW investigation alleges that two range riders were in Spokane when they were supposed to be in Ferry County as part of nonlethal deterrents against wolves. WDFW has turned in their investigation findings to a Thurston County prosecutor, Eli Francovich reports.
The range riders denied the allegations to the Spokesman-Review.
According to the investigation, range riders Arron and Jolene Scotten said they worked and were paid for days they did not work.
WDFW recommended second degree theft chargers be brought up against the two range riders. On Sept. 4 and 5, they claimed to have worked a combined 25 hours, but were allegedly in Spokane buying building supplies. On Sept. 18, Scotten claimed to have worked seven hours, but the investigation said he stayed the night at the Davenport Hotel on Sept. 18 and 19. Jolene Scotten claimed to have worked eight hours on Sept. 19 but phone records place her in Spokane.
WDFW contracts out $352,000 total in range rider contracts. The state agency manages the range riders, not the cattle producers. The state alleges that the Scottens stole around $2,000.
Conservation Northwest released a statement saying that the range riders were not under contract with the conservation group, but that they do operate their own range rider pilot program.
Arron Scotten told the Spokesman-Review that he loans his phone out which is why the phone records show him in Spokane.
He did not get a state contract in 2019 because of the WDFW investigation.
The Spokesman-Review reported that Scotten had teamed up with former WDFW biologist and Chewelah resident Jay Shepherd to form the Northeast Washington Wolf-Cattle Collaborative. Scotten resigned his seat on the board of the collaborative on Nov. 9, 2018, Shepherd told the Spokane paper, saying that he wanted to be paid by the organization but that it is illegal for board members to be paid by the nonprofit they serve.
Shepard said shortly after he resigned, they learned of the WDFW investigation into him. He also told the Spokesman that people should use caution in drawing conclusions since its a politicized issue.
Some conservation groups point out that wolf depredations occurred when the Scottens should have been patrolling. Some of these depredations led to lethal removal of wolves.
Chase
Why is it that you claim no affiliation to the Range riders who abused the program, But one of your own members of CNW formed the collaboration that they were being perhaps funded by?
Your website lists this person as the Wolf Lead?
https://www.conservationnw.org/meet-our-staff/jay-shepherd/
Is this just coincidence?
Post by: idahohuntr on July 16, 2020, 10:20:12 AM
*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on July 16, 2020, 11:07:44 AM
:yeah:
Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.
Ribka, your personal attacks never fail to amuse. They're not worth my time to rebut. I come on here because I'm a hunter, not because I'm paid or directed to do so. I'd like to think that there's still plenty of common ground with my fellow hunters, even if there are areas of disagreement.
On that note, KFHunter, there's a lot in your reply I don't disagree with. I wouldn't have named the ranch if they hadn't already named themselves in plenty of media articles, this year and in the past. Good on them for being forthright. And I'm certainly not disputing that some of the depredations were on private land, though other depredations were on public lands. And they have stepped up their range riding, with support from the state, which is welcome, but there have still been inconsistencies this year and last.
It's fine to dispute those details, the situtation on the ground is complex and fluid, and I don't claim to be aware of every breaking detail. But what I shared above is consistent with how the state and the WAG are evaluating the current circumstances. Does that mean lethal action won't need to be taken? Given the chronic depredations, probably not. But if range riding in this area is only good for "cattle corpse finding", with depredations for 5 years straight, then the operation has a responsibility to work with other stakeholders to find alternate solutions. My point was business as usual isn't working.
Ridgerat, those range riders under investigation were working, and allegedly grifting, the ranch and the state. They had never worked for CNW, and had not been hired by the Northeast Washington Wolf Cattle Collaborative in 2019. More on that here: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/ (https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/)
Post by: CGDucksandDeer on July 16, 2020, 11:11:32 AM
WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.
*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.
On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.
Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.
But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates, it does not come from our license fees, thankfully.
Post by: KFhunter on July 16, 2020, 11:33:31 AM
Then might as well throw deer/elk and a lot of other wildlife under dept of ag too, as they eat hay fields and have livestock conflict as well.
I'm not either opposed or favoring the idea, but I'd like to know if its even feasible because why talk about something that isn't even possible?
Post by: KFhunter on July 16, 2020, 11:36:49 AM
but a lot of depredation (probably most of it) does occur on private lands, so lets discuss that.
Post by: idahohuntr on July 16, 2020, 11:41:44 AM
I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns. A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc. So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.
*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.
On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.
Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.
But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.
I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life. When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits. A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.
Post by: ribka on July 16, 2020, 11:50:12 AM
Has CNW or any of its staff members made any money off the introduction of wolves?
Does CNW have any ties with left wing anti hunting groups?
I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns. A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc. So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.
*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.
On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.
Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.
But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.
I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life. When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits. A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.
Post by: ribka on July 16, 2020, 11:52:57 AM
So when your boss Mitch was in the eco terrosit group Earth First and was spiking trees did he ever pay for the loggers injured when their chainsaws hit his spikes?
Does CNW have close ties with any anti hunting, anti gun organizations?
Does any of CNW's staff engage in in any any anti hunting groups?
Pretty simple questions Chase
:yeah:
Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.
Ribka, your personal attacks never fail to amuse. They're not worth my time to rebut. I come on here because I'm a hunter, not because I'm paid or directed to do so. I'd like to think that there's still plenty of common ground with my fellow hunters, even if there are areas of disagreement.
On that note, KFHunter, there's a lot in your reply I don't disagree with. I wouldn't have named the ranch if they hadn't already named themselves in plenty of media articles, this year and in the past. Good on them for being forthright. And I'm certainly not disputing that some of the depredations were on private land, though other depredations were on public lands. And they have stepped up their range riding, with support from the state, which is welcome, but there have still been inconsistencies this year and last.
It's fine to dispute those details, the situtation on the ground is complex and fluid, and I don't claim to be aware of every breaking detail. But what I shared above is consistent with how the state and the WAG are evaluating the current circumstances. Does that mean lethal action won't need to be taken? Given the chronic depredations, probably not. But if range riding in this area is only good for "cattle corpse finding", with depredations for 5 years straight, then the operation has a responsibility to work with other stakeholders to find alternate solutions. My point was business as usual isn't working.
Ridgerat, those range riders under investigation were working, and allegedly grifting, the ranch and the state. They had never worked for CNW, and had not been hired by the Northeast Washington Wolf Cattle Collaborative in 2019. More on that here: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/ (https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/)
Post by: Dale Gribble on July 16, 2020, 06:59:19 PM
I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns. A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc. So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.
*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.
On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.
Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.
But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.
I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life. When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits. A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.
Have your or chase ever had any loss as a direct result to wolf depredation. Or even been affected by it such as a family member or friend who has lost cattle to wolves. I personally have and so long as he and CNW continue to spread their thoughts and feelings I will continue to share mine. Wolves have no place in this state. Especially the rangeland where cattle have grazed for generations.
Post by: wolfbait on July 18, 2020, 04:00:28 PM
The pack crossed the threshold for lethal removal but wdfw has decided not to cull the pack.
What's New?
WDFW refuse to confirm known wolf packs for several years, and by the time they are forced to confirm, there are several other packs they ignore.
WDFW have upper management that know the disaster wolves are, they know the destruction of the game herds, impact on livestock, etc., but they also know nothing will change if they were to put their :twocents: in, so they ride the wreck to retirement.
Those of you who have been on the wolf issue for the last 16 years or so, watched the people of WY, MT, and Idaho deal with the same corruption as WDFW have shown regarding wolves/wolf management. It's almost as if WDFW have the play book from the USFWS on how to BS the public, and prolong the impact of wolves. I highly doubt there will ever be any true wolf management under the WDFW of today, and certainly not with the Governor we have. How many hunters would vote out Inslee to get wolf management?
Post by: Loup Loup on July 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
He is the enemy of my State.
Post by: ribka on July 18, 2020, 07:00:33 PM
The pack crossed the threshold for lethal removal but wdfw has decided not to cull the pack.
What's New?
WDFW refuse to confirm known wolf packs for several years, and by the time they are forced to confirm, there are several other packs they ignore.
WDFW have upper management that know the disaster wolves are, they know the destruction of the game herds, impact on livestock, etc., but they also know nothing will change if they were to put their :twocents: in, so they ride the wreck to retirement.
Those of you who have been on the wolf issue for the last 16 years or so, watched the people of WY, MT, and Idaho deal with the same corruption as WDFW have shown regarding wolves/wolf management. It's almost as if WDFW have the play book from the USFWS on how to BS the public, and prolong the impact of wolves. I highly doubt there will ever be any true wolf management under the WDFW of today, and certainly not with the Governor we have. How many hunters would vote out Inslee to get wolf management?