7 calves attacked yesterday

[CGDucksandDeer]

Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.

Ribka, your personal attacks never fail to amuse. They're not worth my time to rebut. I come on here because I'm a hunter, not because I'm paid or directed to do so. I'd like to think that there's still plenty of common ground with my fellow hunters, even if there are areas of disagreement.

On that note, KFHunter, there's a lot in your reply I don't disagree with. I wouldn't have named the ranch if they hadn't already named themselves in plenty of media articles, this year and in the past. Good on them for being forthright. And I'm certainly not disputing that some of the depredations were on private land, though other depredations were on public lands. And they have stepped up their range riding, with support from the state, which is welcome, but there have still been inconsistencies this year and last.

It's fine to dispute those details, the situtation on the ground is complex and fluid, and I don't claim to be aware of every breaking detail. But what I shared above is consistent with how the state and the WAG are evaluating the current circumstances. Does that mean lethal action won't need to be taken? Given the chronic depredations, probably not. But if range riding in this area is only good for "cattle corpse finding", with depredations for 5 years straight, then the operation has a responsibility to work with other stakeholders to find alternate solutions. My point was business as usual isn't working.

Ridgerat, those range riders under investigation were working, and allegedly grifting, the ranch and the state. They had never worked for CNW, and had not been hired by the Northeast Washington Wolf Cattle Collaborative in 2019. More on that here: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/

[CGDucksandDeer]

WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves.  Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs).  WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.

*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.   

On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.

Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.

But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates, it does not come from our license fees, thankfully.

[KFhunter]

I don't get how WDFW can just wash their hands of wolves and leave it up to "state ag/livestock/ecology whoever",  who's going to get sued when dept of ag starts culling wolves left and right? All wildlife responsibility falls under WDFW right,  so are you talking legislative changes that would direct that wildlife that conflicts with livestock all fall under dept of ag?  That way dept of ag would then be the litigant and subject to suit.   
Then might as well throw deer/elk and a lot of other wildlife under dept of ag too, as they eat hay fields and have livestock conflict as well. 


I'm not either opposed or favoring the idea,  but I'd like to know if its even feasible because why talk about something that isn't even possible?

[KFhunter]

I know you both are heavily against public lands grazing, which is fine it's your opinion.

but a lot of depredation (probably most of it) does occur on private lands,  so lets discuss that. 

[idahohuntr]

WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves.  Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs).  WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.

*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.   

On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.

Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.

But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.

I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns.  A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc.  So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.

I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life.  When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits.  A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.

[ribka]

So was the founder of CNW a self admitted eco terrorist? Please just present the facts . Does CNW support all legal forms of hunting? Just the facts please.

Has CNW or any of its staff members  made any money off the introduction of wolves?

Does CNW have any ties with left wing anti hunting groups?

WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves.  Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs).  WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.

*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.   

On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.

Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.

But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.

I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns.  A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc.  So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.

I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life.  When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits.  A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.

[ribka]

Keep on spreading the lies as you are paid to do so.

So when your boss Mitch was in the eco terrosit group Earth First and was spiking trees did he ever pay for the loggers injured when their chainsaws hit his spikes?

Does CNW have close ties with any anti hunting, anti gun organizations? 

Does any of CNW's staff engage in in any any anti hunting groups?

Pretty simple questions Chase

Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.

Ribka, your personal attacks never fail to amuse. They're not worth my time to rebut. I come on here because I'm a hunter, not because I'm paid or directed to do so. I'd like to think that there's still plenty of common ground with my fellow hunters, even if there are areas of disagreement.

On that note, KFHunter, there's a lot in your reply I don't disagree with. I wouldn't have named the ranch if they hadn't already named themselves in plenty of media articles, this year and in the past. Good on them for being forthright. And I'm certainly not disputing that some of the depredations were on private land, though other depredations were on public lands. And they have stepped up their range riding, with support from the state, which is welcome, but there have still been inconsistencies this year and last.

It's fine to dispute those details, the situtation on the ground is complex and fluid, and I don't claim to be aware of every breaking detail. But what I shared above is consistent with how the state and the WAG are evaluating the current circumstances. Does that mean lethal action won't need to be taken? Given the chronic depredations, probably not. But if range riding in this area is only good for "cattle corpse finding", with depredations for 5 years straight, then the operation has a responsibility to work with other stakeholders to find alternate solutions. My point was business as usual isn't working.

Ridgerat, those range riders under investigation were working, and allegedly grifting, the ranch and the state. They had never worked for CNW, and had not been hired by the Northeast Washington Wolf Cattle Collaborative in 2019. More on that here: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/

[Dale Gribble]

WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves.  Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs).  WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.

*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.   

On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate.

Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife.

But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.

I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns.  A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc.  So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.

I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life.  When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits.  A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.

Have your or chase ever had any loss as a direct result to wolf depredation. Or even been affected by it such as a family member or friend who has lost cattle to wolves. I personally have and so long as he and CNW continue to spread their thoughts and feelings I will continue to share mine. Wolves have no place in this state. Especially the rangeland where cattle have grazed for generations.

[wolfbait]

The pack crossed the threshold for lethal removal but wdfw has decided not to cull the pack.

What's New?

WDFW refuse to confirm known wolf packs for several years, and by the time they are forced to confirm, there are several other packs they ignore.

WDFW have upper management that know the disaster wolves are, they know the destruction of the game herds, impact on livestock, etc., but they also know nothing will change if they were to put their  in, so they ride the wreck to retirement.

Those of you who have been on the wolf issue for the last 16 years or so, watched the people of WY, MT, and Idaho deal with the same corruption as WDFW have shown regarding wolves/wolf management. It's almost as if WDFW have the play book from the USFWS on how to BS the public, and prolong the impact of wolves. I highly doubt there will ever be any true wolf management under the WDFW of today, and certainly not with the Governor we have. How many hunters would vote out Inslee to get wolf management?

[Loup Loup]

Im going to vote Inslee out just on the basis that he's an incompetent clown.
He is the enemy of my State.

[ribka]

And that makes Mitch, and his lil sock puppet Chase, at CNW super happy. CNW and WDFW have very close relationships. Wait til it take 5 to 7 years to draw an elk or deer hunt in Washington. 

The pack crossed the threshold for lethal removal but wdfw has decided not to cull the pack.

What's New?

WDFW refuse to confirm known wolf packs for several years, and by the time they are forced to confirm, there are several other packs they ignore.

WDFW have upper management that know the disaster wolves are, they know the destruction of the game herds, impact on livestock, etc., but they also know nothing will change if they were to put their  in, so they ride the wreck to retirement.

Those of you who have been on the wolf issue for the last 16 years or so, watched the people of WY, MT, and Idaho deal with the same corruption as WDFW have shown regarding wolves/wolf management. It's almost as if WDFW have the play book from the USFWS on how to BS the public, and prolong the impact of wolves. I highly doubt there will ever be any true wolf management under the WDFW of today, and certainly not with the Governor we have. How many hunters would vote out Inslee to get wolf management?