Free: Contests & Raffles.
Yeah I’m a bit confused, I thought they’d already reached the culling point.
When was the attack?Yesterday according to the article.
When you say you were trailing a pack of wolves, what do you mean?
I think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2020, 09:41:59 AMI think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business? This statement above is full of half truths and misconceptions. The Diamond M is the largest cattle ranch by far in the area where the wolves first took a major foothold in Washington. Of course they're going to have the most problems. Also, a lot of the depredations (and all of the depredations prior to June) was all on private land. I don't have the exact number, but I think it was a majority of the total depredations did occur on private lands. This is victim shaming and ousting the name of the ranch involved which WDFW decided to withhold that information due to public threats...yet here you are ousting them? And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?). The range riding was inconsistent because it was full of grift, and was front loaded with pro-wolf agenda people. The ranchers had a major distrust for the range rider program, as they should have. The first range rider on the wedge was some old hippy who drove up in his truck, went down a few back roads then left about 15 minutes later. Now, the range rider program has improved greatly, but its still more of a cattle corpse finding operation than it is prevention. This ranch ate the range rider cost for years, they do it themselves, but the state will not allow them to kill wolves unless caught in the act, which is dammed difficult if WDFW won't tell you where the wolves are! And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.That goes back to what I was saying earlier, there's simply too much ground to cover with little to no visibility, and due to WDFW abject failure to collar wolves (and share that info) it was set up for failure from the get go. It cannot succeed without 1) a lot of wolves collared and 2) a lot of range riders and 3) information sharing with range riders It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.This is another half-truth at best, according to WDFW the ranch has complied with ALL conflict avoidance measures including fladery, range riders, strobes, hazing and other crap that don't and won't ever work.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2020, 09:41:59 AMI think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business? And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?). And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.
Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.
Quote from: CGDucksandDeer on July 15, 2020, 02:09:32 PMQuote from: pianoman9701 on July 13, 2020, 09:41:59 AMI think a rancher who protected his assets in the face of inaction by the government would certainly have a strong case for dismissal. The wolves in that are are no longer protected federally. He'd need to worry only about state charges and they have refused to allow removal even after removal criteria, a criteria which was agreed upon by a diverse panel, has been met, and then some. I'm not a fan of poaching. I'm also not a fan of seeing people lose their livelihood due to their elected officials playing politics. I'd certainly vote not guilty.That might be true, except that this will be the 5th year in a row that the state has authorized lethal wolf removal to protect livestock for one of the two ranches currently experiencing cattle depredations by the Wedge Pack (Diamond M). Is the state swooping in to protect a private operation on public lands 5 summers in a row good business? And this case gets even more complicated by the fact that range riding was inconsistent in this area in 2019 (remember that investigation and article about the riders taking trips to the Davenport Hotel when they were billing range rider hours in the northern Kettle Range?). And again this spring, when WDFW determined there was a gap in range rider coverage in May during the first four depredations in the Wedge, and since then there has not been a publicly available assessment of range rider coverage or other non-lethal deterrence efforts over the time period of the most recent injuries to cattle.It's a crappy situation, as the Wedge wolves are exhibiting chronic depredation behavior, and action will be needed. But the ranch involved hasn't consistently met the state's conflict avoidance requirements (Wolf-Livestock Interaction Protocol), and has enjoyed the support of expensive state wolf killing the past four summers. The social response, and some form of involvement from the Governor, should be expected. Hopefully it doesn't lead to worse for everyone involved in the form of an initiative or legislation.https://chewelahindependent.com/wdfw-refers-range-rider-inconsistencies-to-prosecutors/MORE WOLF DRAMA: Investigation singles out two range riders who filed hours for work in Stevens County when they were allegedly in Spokane…The Spokesman-Review is reporting that a WDFW investigation alleges that two range riders were in Spokane when they were supposed to be in Ferry County as part of nonlethal deterrents against wolves. WDFW has turned in their investigation findings to a Thurston County prosecutor, Eli Francovich reports.The range riders denied the allegations to the Spokesman-Review.According to the investigation, range riders Arron and Jolene Scotten said they worked and were paid for days they did not work.WDFW recommended second degree theft chargers be brought up against the two range riders. On Sept. 4 and 5, they claimed to have worked a combined 25 hours, but were allegedly in Spokane buying building supplies. On Sept. 18, Scotten claimed to have worked seven hours, but the investigation said he stayed the night at the Davenport Hotel on Sept. 18 and 19. Jolene Scotten claimed to have worked eight hours on Sept. 19 but phone records place her in Spokane. WDFW contracts out $352,000 total in range rider contracts. The state agency manages the range riders, not the cattle producers. The state alleges that the Scottens stole around $2,000.Conservation Northwest released a statement saying that the range riders were not under contract with the conservation group, but that they do operate their own range rider pilot program.Arron Scotten told the Spokesman-Review that he loans his phone out which is why the phone records show him in Spokane.He did not get a state contract in 2019 because of the WDFW investigation.The Spokesman-Review reported that Scotten had teamed up with former WDFW biologist and Chewelah resident Jay Shepherd to form the Northeast Washington Wolf-Cattle Collaborative. Scotten resigned his seat on the board of the collaborative on Nov. 9, 2018, Shepherd told the Spokane paper, saying that he wanted to be paid by the organization but that it is illegal for board members to be paid by the nonprofit they serve.Shepard said shortly after he resigned, they learned of the WDFW investigation into him. He also told the Spokesman that people should use caution in drawing conclusions since its a politicized issue.Some conservation groups point out that wolf depredations occurred when the Scottens should have been patrolling. Some of these depredations led to lethal removal of wolves.Chase Why is it that you claim no affiliation to the Range riders who abused the program, But one of your own members of CNW formed the collaboration that they were being perhaps funded by?Your website lists this person as the Wolf Lead?https://www.conservationnw.org/meet-our-staff/jay-shepherd/Is this just coincidence?
WDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility.
Quote from: idahohuntr on July 16, 2020, 10:20:12 AMWDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility. On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate. Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife. But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.
Quote from: CGDucksandDeer on July 16, 2020, 11:11:32 AMQuote from: idahohuntr on July 16, 2020, 10:20:12 AMWDFW should get out of any and all involvement with wolves. Leave wolf management to state ag/livestock/ecology whoever and any others with interests in wolves (CNW, Sierra club...whoever else wants in on this bs). WDFW should have nothing to do with this political mess that consumes huge amounts of sportsman's money...that is the biggest crime of all...sportsman resources being used in a fight largely between tree huggers and private cattle ranchers...the biggest loser in this: the Sportsman of Washington state.*I might have a different opinion if I thought there was a chance for actual wolf management in this state, but given the politics, its just not in the realm of possibility. On this we agree: wolves have become far too big of a time and energy suck for WDFW, as well as for groups focused on actual wildlife recovery and conservation. Once they meet state recovery goals (as they have in eastern WA...), focus needs to go elsewhere, especially with far more critical fish and wildlife issues on DFW's plate. Department of Ag is well suited to help reduce and manage responses to wolf conflicts with livestock, and thankfully they now have grant programs along those lines. More of this is needed, as well as more cooperative community resources so the ranchers have local support and the burden is not on Fish & Wildlife. But to be fair, most of the money for WDFW wolf conflict mitigation comes from appropriations directly from the State Legislature, and from proceeds from custom wildlife license plates. It does not come from our license fees, thankfully.I generally understand the funding mechanism, but that really does not alleviate my concerns. A LOT of energy and time by senior leadership, mid level staff and others gets devoted to wolves...just think if all these senior and mid level folks were placing that energy into hunting access improvements, habitat, game management etc. So while my deer license money isn't going directly into wolf depredation management - its still a massive resource drain that is very detrimental to hunters and game management.I do appreciate your insight and discussion...many of us see the one-sided personal attacks leveled at you and they are entirely unfair...but that's life. When folks resort to baseless personal attacks and calling you a liar etc. its because they are wholly ill equipped to debate the merits. A large (silent) majority see this plain as day, so don't let a few consistent squeaky wheels bother you...I'm sure in your line of work they don't even register as a blip on the radar, and whether I agree with you or not, I do appreciate your contributions.
Quote from: ribka on July 15, 2020, 07:07:26 PM Good ol chase, coming to HW to spread CNW’s lies again, dang near thought he’d given up as of late.Ribka, your personal attacks never fail to amuse. They're not worth my time to rebut. I come on here because I'm a hunter, not because I'm paid or directed to do so. I'd like to think that there's still plenty of common ground with my fellow hunters, even if there are areas of disagreement.On that note, KFHunter, there's a lot in your reply I don't disagree with. I wouldn't have named the ranch if they hadn't already named themselves in plenty of media articles, this year and in the past. Good on them for being forthright. And I'm certainly not disputing that some of the depredations were on private land, though other depredations were on public lands. And they have stepped up their range riding, with support from the state, which is welcome, but there have still been inconsistencies this year and last. It's fine to dispute those details, the situtation on the ground is complex and fluid, and I don't claim to be aware of every breaking detail. But what I shared above is consistent with how the state and the WAG are evaluating the current circumstances. Does that mean lethal action won't need to be taken? Given the chronic depredations, probably not. But if range riding in this area is only good for "cattle corpse finding", with depredations for 5 years straight, then the operation has a responsibility to work with other stakeholders to find alternate solutions. My point was business as usual isn't working.Ridgerat, those range riders under investigation were working, and allegedly grifting, the ranch and the state. They had never worked for CNW, and had not been hired by the Northeast Washington Wolf Cattle Collaborative in 2019. More on that here: https://www.conservationnw.org/news-updates/perspectives-on-range-riding-and-newwcc/
The pack crossed the threshold for lethal removal but wdfw has decided not to cull the pack.
Quote from: bornhunter on July 12, 2020, 09:30:46 AMThe pack crossed the threshold for lethal removal but wdfw has decided not to cull the pack.What's New? WDFW refuse to confirm known wolf packs for several years, and by the time they are forced to confirm, there are several other packs they ignore. WDFW have upper management that know the disaster wolves are, they know the destruction of the game herds, impact on livestock, etc., but they also know nothing will change if they were to put their in, so they ride the wreck to retirement.Those of you who have been on the wolf issue for the last 16 years or so, watched the people of WY, MT, and Idaho deal with the same corruption as WDFW have shown regarding wolves/wolf management. It's almost as if WDFW have the play book from the USFWS on how to BS the public, and prolong the impact of wolves. I highly doubt there will ever be any true wolf management under the WDFW of today, and certainly not with the Governor we have. How many hunters would vote out Inslee to get wolf management?