Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 18, 2020, 08:27:16 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/season-setting
Edit was just to add the link to the survey. Rainier10
Post by: huntnnw on August 18, 2020, 08:45:00 AM
Post by: kellama2001 on August 18, 2020, 10:10:11 AM
Post by: buckfvr on August 18, 2020, 10:47:18 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on August 18, 2020, 11:42:01 AM
Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 18, 2020, 01:06:09 PM
Post by: wannabhntr on August 18, 2020, 01:10:05 PM
Post by: Fishmaker57 on August 18, 2020, 01:46:14 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on August 18, 2020, 02:01:29 PM
Nothing about the mule deer herds was a huge disappointment. I can see where this state is continued to head.Agreed.
I saw something in there about using air rifles to kill bull frogs...but hardly a damn thing about mule deer. What a joke. :bash:
Post by: Shooter4 on August 18, 2020, 04:00:08 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on August 18, 2020, 04:32:31 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 18, 2020, 05:10:39 PM
I really hate how they dangle .223 for deer, but also include a note that they'd limit magazine size if they did that. I hunt with 20 round mags in my .308 all of the time, I've never shot more than 2x at something and usually only load it up half way. I do not want to be made a criminal for not wanting to buy another magazine. This is a dirty trick...Thats dumb. I didnt see that part. Did they say what capacity would limit to?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 18, 2020, 05:24:42 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on August 18, 2020, 05:27:34 PM
I really hate how they dangle .223 for deer, but also include a note that they'd limit magazine size if they did that. I hunt with 20 round mags in my .308 all of the time, I've never shot more than 2x at something and usually only load it up half way. I do not want to be made a criminal for not wanting to buy another magazine. This is a dirty trick...Thats dumb. I didnt see that part. Did they say what capacity would limit to?
They didn't but they said it would likely come with it.
I can see them changing it here and then using it to justify a magazine ban statewide, like they want to do anyway.
Post by: duckmen1 on August 18, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 18, 2020, 06:12:37 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 18, 2020, 06:24:15 PM
There is only one way to see meaningful changes in wildlife management in Washington: VOTE IN A NEW GOVERNOR!
That is a fact !! We're at the mercy of western wa. and I personally do not see a change on the horizon.
Post by: Camo on August 18, 2020, 06:26:34 PM
Post by: grundy53 on August 18, 2020, 06:38:58 PM
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Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on August 18, 2020, 06:54:35 PM
Was there a way to "submit" your selections at the end or are they automatically submitted? It just ended after presumably the last waterfowl question with no indication you were finished or responses were received.
Camo, on the multiple choice questions it was automatically submitted when you click on it. As for the comments, you would have to type it out and then hit the submit button directly under the comment box.
Post by: Lucky1 on August 18, 2020, 06:57:55 PM
Don’t give up. Find 1 or 2 people who don’t vote and get them registered. You can do it on your smart phone. Really. If we all get 1 more person to vote we can win. Just don’t register anyone who will vote democrat.There is only one way to see meaningful changes in wildlife management in Washington: VOTE IN A NEW GOVERNOR!
That is a fact !! We're at the mercy of western wa. and I personally do not see a change on the horizon.
Post by: Camo on August 18, 2020, 07:00:42 PM
Was there a way to "submit" your selections at the end or are they automatically submitted? It just ended after presumably the last waterfowl question with no indication you were finished or responses were received.
Camo, on the multiple choice questions it was automatically submitted when you click on it. As for the comments, you would have to type it out and then hit the submit button directly under the comment box.
Copy that, usually there is something that says "thanks for completing" or something to that effect. To your point they apparently removed the "carnivores" section that was included in the first of three emails.
WDFW NEWS RELEASE
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife
1111 Washington St. SE, Olympia, WA 98501
https://wdfw.wa.gov
Aug. 3, 2020
Contact: Sam Montgomery, 360-688-0721
WDFW seeks public comments on 2021-2023 hunting season proposals
OLYMPIA – The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) is seeking comments on proposed alternatives for 2021-23 hunting seasons and has scheduled several meetings in August and September to discuss proposals with the public.
The hunting season proposals will be posted Monday, Aug. 17, on WDFW’s website for the public to provide comments. WDFW will accept public comments through Tuesday, Sept. 15.
This year, WDFW has scheduled a series of virtual public meetings by topic to discuss the 2021-23 hunting season alternatives. The meetings are scheduled from 6-7 p.m. on the following dates:
• Thursday, Aug. 20 – Waterfowl
• Tuesday, Aug. 25 – Carnivores, small game, upland game, furbearers
• Thursday, Aug. 27 – General and equipment
• Tuesday, Sept. 1 – Licensing
• Thursday, Sept. 3 – Elk
• Wednesday, Sept. 9 – Deer
• Thursday, Sept. 10 – Mountain goat, bighorn sheep, and boundaries
The public can attend the events and ask questions in real time by clicking on the corresponding link above.
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on August 18, 2020, 07:04:06 PM
There is only one way to see meaningful changes in wildlife management in Washington: VOTE IN A NEW GOVERNOR!
No trout about that :tup:
Post by: stlusn30-06 on August 19, 2020, 08:30:00 AM
Nothing about the mule deer herds was a huge disappointment. I can see where this state is continued to head.
Did I get a different survey than most people? I had like 3 or 4 (maybe it was 2-3) proposals around Mule Deer (mostly no antlerless in certain gmus) and they were calling out declining numbers as the reasoning.
Post by: kselkhunter on August 19, 2020, 08:45:54 AM
Nothing about the mule deer herds was a huge disappointment. I can see where this state is continued to head.
Did I get a different survey than most people? I had like 3 or 4 (maybe it was 2-3) proposals around Mule Deer (mostly no antlerless in certain gmus) and they were calling out declining numbers as the reasoning.
You're correct. The mule deer information was in there.
Post by: idahohuntr on August 19, 2020, 08:51:34 AM
Yes, there were some token proposals for a few gmus. It's the silence on the rest of the states mule deer that irritates me.Nothing about the mule deer herds was a huge disappointment. I can see where this state is continued to head.
Did I get a different survey than most people? I had like 3 or 4 (maybe it was 2-3) proposals around Mule Deer (mostly no antlerless in certain gmus) and they were calling out declining numbers as the reasoning.
You're correct. The mule deer information was in there.
Post by: Onewhohikes on August 19, 2020, 09:12:03 AM
Post by: haftard on August 19, 2020, 11:04:14 AM
Are you kidding me tho on the 1x optic on muzzleloaders.
Post by: Fatherof5 on August 19, 2020, 11:09:24 AM
There is only one way to see meaningful changes in wildlife management in Washington: VOTE IN A NEW GOVERNOR!
Post by: Bango skank on August 19, 2020, 11:16:41 AM
Are you kidding me tho on the 1x optic on muzzleloaders.
Did you not see the other proposal allowing magnifying scopes on muzzleloaders?
Post by: full choke on August 19, 2020, 11:23:56 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on August 19, 2020, 11:34:39 AM
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Post by: bobcat on August 19, 2020, 11:38:57 AM
One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Post by: Bullkllr on August 19, 2020, 11:46:34 AM
One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
Post by: haftard on August 19, 2020, 11:49:56 AM
Are you kidding me tho on the 1x optic on muzzleloaders.
Did you not see the other proposal allowing magnifying scopes on muzzleloaders?
I did. Eather let us use scoped muzzle stuffer or make us use open sights. Doing a 1x optic would alow alot of grey area
Post by: duckmen1 on August 19, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
Although I can guess there are some that will try to stretch the law.
Post by: bobcat on August 19, 2020, 09:23:55 PM
One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
It would only be for males and would be by limited permit only. From the survey:
Quote
Implement a limited spring permit hunt for male dusky and sooty grouse and do not allow the use of hunting dogs for this hunt.
I would love to try hunting grouse in the spring.
Post by: Bullkllr on August 20, 2020, 07:03:31 AM
I'm not saying I'm for or against it.One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
It would only be for males and would be by limited permit only. From the survey:QuoteImplement a limited spring permit hunt for male dusky and sooty grouse and do not allow the use of hunting dogs for this hunt.
I would love to try hunting grouse in the spring.
The very next proposal is to delay the fall season. It reads
Harvest data, based on catch-per-unit-effort, indicate that Washington’s forest grouse populations are in a long-term decline.
The two proposals seem rather contradictory, at least on the surface.
Post by: bobcat on August 20, 2020, 07:23:34 AM
I'm not saying I'm for or against it.One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
It would only be for males and would be by limited permit only. From the survey:QuoteImplement a limited spring permit hunt for male dusky and sooty grouse and do not allow the use of hunting dogs for this hunt.
I would love to try hunting grouse in the spring.
The very next proposal is to delay the fall season. It reads
Harvest data, based on catch-per-unit-effort, indicate that Washington’s forest grouse populations are in a long-term decline.
The two proposals seem rather contradictory, at least on the surface.
I thought the theory has always been that harvest of game birds by hunters has virtually no effect on the population numbers, as other things, like weather, is what really matters. At least I know that's what I was told 40 years ago in hunter education class.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 20, 2020, 07:41:47 AM
People act like 1 power scopes bring you closer view of the animal making it easier. All it does is allow a clearer site picture for people who have issues with eye site.How would anyone know it was only 1X? Would game wardens be out looking through everyone's optics?
Although I can guess there are some that will try to stretch the law.
I've played with 1X on some scopes and rangefinders. Decent glass in low light makes a big difference.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 20, 2020, 07:44:19 AM
You can hunt grouse Aug through March if you use a falconry bird.I'm not saying I'm for or against it.One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
It would only be for males and would be by limited permit only. From the survey:QuoteImplement a limited spring permit hunt for male dusky and sooty grouse and do not allow the use of hunting dogs for this hunt.
I would love to try hunting grouse in the spring.
The very next proposal is to delay the fall season. It reads
Harvest data, based on catch-per-unit-effort, indicate that Washington’s forest grouse populations are in a long-term decline.
The two proposals seem rather contradictory, at least on the surface.
I thought the theory has always been that harvest of game birds by hunters has virtually no effect on the population numbers, as other things, like weather, is what really matters. At least I know that's what I was told 40 years ago in hunter education class.
Post by: Bullkllr on August 20, 2020, 07:51:05 AM
It just seems funny for the WDFW to be promoting both expanding and cutting back grouse seasons.You can hunt grouse Aug through March if you use a falconry bird.I'm not saying I'm for or against it.One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
It would only be for males and would be by limited permit only. From the survey:QuoteImplement a limited spring permit hunt for male dusky and sooty grouse and do not allow the use of hunting dogs for this hunt.
I would love to try hunting grouse in the spring.
The very next proposal is to delay the fall season. It reads
Harvest data, based on catch-per-unit-effort, indicate that Washington’s forest grouse populations are in a long-term decline.
The two proposals seem rather contradictory, at least on the surface.
I thought the theory has always been that harvest of game birds by hunters has virtually no effect on the population numbers, as other things, like weather, is what really matters. At least I know that's what I was told 40 years ago in hunter education class.
Post by: bobcat on August 20, 2020, 07:56:43 AM
It just seems funny for the WDFW to be promoting both expanding and cutting back grouse seasons.You can hunt grouse Aug through March if you use a falconry bird.I'm not saying I'm for or against it.One of the proposals (#112 iirc) was for a spring grouse season. The very next proposal was to cutback grouse season because of downward population trends.
Makes me wonder how some of these proposals got as far as they did.
Oh really? Like Alaska? I've seen videos of them hunting blue grouse in the spring up there. They only kill the males. Shoot them out of trees. Looks like fun to me.
Regardless of whether the spring season sounds like fun or not, the justification seems contradicted by the justification for the very next proposal is all I'm saying. Hard to have it both ways :dunno:
It would only be for males and would be by limited permit only. From the survey:QuoteImplement a limited spring permit hunt for male dusky and sooty grouse and do not allow the use of hunting dogs for this hunt.
I would love to try hunting grouse in the spring.
The very next proposal is to delay the fall season. It reads
Harvest data, based on catch-per-unit-effort, indicate that Washington’s forest grouse populations are in a long-term decline.
The two proposals seem rather contradictory, at least on the surface.
I thought the theory has always been that harvest of game birds by hunters has virtually no effect on the population numbers, as other things, like weather, is what really matters. At least I know that's what I was told 40 years ago in hunter education class.
Not really expanding seasons when it would only be a limited permit opportunity.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 20, 2020, 01:02:12 PM
They could make a high grouse hunt and give a months worth of spring season, but how many would go into the wilderness in March and be successful.
Post by: Bango skank on August 20, 2020, 01:07:08 PM
Yeah, Wdfw can sell all kinds of opportunity to makeit look like hunter prospects are goodmore money in application fees while game numbers decline, but really don't have to sacrifice many animals.
They could make a high grouse hunt and give a months worth of spring season, but how many would go into the wilderness in March and be successful.
Ftfy
Post by: elksnout on August 20, 2020, 10:31:43 PM
There is not option for moving 3pt min to any elk in 578 for modern they need to have that for a couple years
Respectfully, are you serious? They should have stopped slaughtering "any elk" longggggg before they did not only that unit but 574 as well. It's a sliver of what it was for a number of reasons. They shouldn't even be giving out cow tags for God's sake.
Elksnout
Post by: B4noon on August 21, 2020, 10:46:37 AM
Post by: buckfvr on August 21, 2020, 12:50:00 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on August 22, 2020, 12:14:55 PM
If WA joined New Mexico and other states in the scoped muzzy without bullet restrictions regulations, I'd be curious if that would cause somebody like CVA to make a version of their Paramount 45 cal Long Range with a rifling twist option for lighter bullets to support 308 or 338 cal in 45cal sabots. A 308cal 168 Barnes/Nosler/etc. in 45cal sabot with modern primers and Blackhorn 209 should be able to get up to 2400-2500fps in that rifle (with proper twist rate) with a better BC than a typical muzzy bullet. Magnum charge in a 700 Ultimate probably closer to 2600-2700fps for that same bullet in 50cal sabot. Which those velocity ranges fall in between 300 Savage and 308 Winchester....good enough for 300-400 yards on an elk as long as the sabots are designed properly for the bullet to stabilize correctly upon releasing. I've already thought of toying with making a sabot (and even machining a custom 308 or 338 cal bullet that is heavy enough for the existing twist rate in my current CVA) should I ever win the NM muzzy elk tag lottery as their muzzy restrictions are so loose...and odds are so low of winning one of those tags. Although could just buy a 700 Ultimate with scope, and call it good without messing with bullet calibers/sabots.....
Telescopic scopes defeats the purpose of a "primitive" weapons season.
Post by: buckfvr on August 22, 2020, 12:23:53 PM
I will suggest, it will ruin most muzzle loader hunts.
Post by: Russ McDonald on August 22, 2020, 12:27:34 PM
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Post by: kselkhunter on August 22, 2020, 12:30:14 PM
I will suggest, it will ruin most muzzle loader hunts.
Yes very much so would ruin muzzy hunts. The NW Legal restrictions removal already significantly increased the quantity of hunters in the unit I muzzy elk hunt substantially. Allow telescopic scopes....why would anybody hunt rifle season in November anymore when the bulls are still talking sometimes in early October muzzy season (west side)?
Not that I am against but they went away from primitive when they went inline and then 209 primers. Find me a definition of primitive that fits what we use in muzzle loader season.
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Agreed. Might as well copy some of the southern states and call a 35 Whelen a "primitive weapon" (a few do). Which is amusing as 35 Whelen is my primary elk rifle in modern rifle season. I like the cleanliness of BH209, but do wish WA would go back to NW Legal restrictions as the influx of new muzzy hunters was crazy.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 22, 2020, 12:43:49 PM
Not that I am against but they went away from primitive when they went inline and then 209 primers. Find me a definition of primitive that fits what we use in muzzle loader season.I dont view muzzle loader season as primitive, just a different method. Imo the sight restrictions are the limiting factor.
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Post by: buckfvr on August 22, 2020, 01:13:18 PM
I have been very close to buying a new muzzle loader a couple times in the last few months, now Im glad I didnt until I see how this shakes out. Since Ive killed both deer and elk with bow and rifle, Id like to add the muzzleloader to the list but it wont mean as much if it has a scope on it and quite frankly that doesnt interest me.
Post by: Russ McDonald on August 22, 2020, 02:51:28 PM
Yup just like bows. They don't really fall under primitive anymore either. Since ML are considered primitive why don't they get a longer season like archery. ML spring season is the shortest out of the 3.Not that I am against but they went away from primitive when they went inline and then 209 primers. Find me a definition of primitive that fits what we use in muzzle loader season.I dont view muzzle loader season as primitive, just a different method. Imo the sight restrictions are the limiting factor.
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Post by: buckfvr on August 22, 2020, 04:56:22 PM
Post by: JLS on August 25, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Grouse: brood survival is the issue in September. It's easy to put a huge hurt on a brood of grouse in early September, which can then impact hen survival and perpetuate further population declines. Hunting males in the springtime after the mating season is done is not going to have a profound impact on overall populations. After all, we hunt turkeys in the spring on a male only season.
Mule Deer: there were a number of proposals that addressed antlerless harvest. Is it enough? Maybe not. It's a start, and absent going to limited permit for bucks or choosing your GMU it's probably all that'll happen for now.
Predators: What are folks wanting to see? Bear season was just expanded last year and limits liberalized. Dog hunting won't come back without legislative action. I think changes to cougar management are going to be looming on the horizon.
Post by: Bango skank on August 25, 2020, 07:02:52 PM
A few thoughts:
Grouse: brood survival is the issue in September. It's easy to put a huge hurt on a brood of grouse in early September, which can then impact hen survival and perpetuate further population declines. Hunting males in the springtime after the mating season is done is not going to have a profound impact on overall populations. After all, we hunt turkeys in the spring on a male only season.
Mule Deer: there were a number of proposals that addressed antlerless harvest. Is it enough? Maybe not. It's a start, and absent going to limited permit for bucks or choosing your GMU it's probably all that'll happen for now.
Predators: What are folks wanting to see? Bear season was just expanded last year and limits liberalized. Dog hunting won't come back without legislative action. I think changes to cougar management are going to be looming on the horizon.
Otc spring bear, 2 lion tags, lion opening august 1st with bear, and no harvest quota. Since you asked.
Post by: JLS on August 25, 2020, 07:18:12 PM
A few thoughts:
Grouse: brood survival is the issue in September. It's easy to put a huge hurt on a brood of grouse in early September, which can then impact hen survival and perpetuate further population declines. Hunting males in the springtime after the mating season is done is not going to have a profound impact on overall populations. After all, we hunt turkeys in the spring on a male only season.
Mule Deer: there were a number of proposals that addressed antlerless harvest. Is it enough? Maybe not. It's a start, and absent going to limited permit for bucks or choosing your GMU it's probably all that'll happen for now.
Predators: What are folks wanting to see? Bear season was just expanded last year and limits liberalized. Dog hunting won't come back without legislative action. I think changes to cougar management are going to be looming on the horizon.
Otc spring bear, 2 lion tags, lion opening august 1st with bear, and no harvest quota. Since you asked.
I've also advocated for either OTC spring bear or increased quotas. You may see an earlier lion opener (doubtful), but I can all but guarantee you'll never see a no harvest quota on lions statewide. I can't think of a western state off the top of my head that has no quotas statewide, absent a select few units (i.e. the Palouse, eastern Montana, etc.).
Post by: hunter399 on August 25, 2020, 08:47:17 PM
If asked by wdfw I would say ,yes. But do you guys really think that they will give up the buckets of money they make in permits?
Mule deer /no antlerless harvest statewide, permits or otherwise.
Spring grouse /NO
Compare spring grouse to Turkey hunting is a very poor comparison.
Have you ever seen a herd of grouse hanging out in a ag fields.
Are you gonna call in some grouse,you got your spring grouse blind set up.
To say grouse numbers are down,now let's open a new season in the same sentence is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Post by: bobcat on August 25, 2020, 08:57:08 PM
Post by: JLS on August 25, 2020, 09:00:24 PM
OTC spring bear really?With respect to OTC spring bears, loss of special permit revenues could easily be countered by tacking five bucks on the price of a spring tag. I hate the permit system as a revenue generator, and have repeatedly voiced this. It's the ghost of Dave Ware.
If asked by wdfw I would say ,yes. But do you guys really think that they will give up the buckets of money they make in permits?
Mule deer /no antlerless harvest statewide, permits or otherwise.
Spring grouse /NO
Compare spring grouse to Turkey hunting is a very poor comparison.
Have you ever seen a herd of grouse hanging out in a ag fields.
Are you gonna call in some grouse,you got your spring grouse blind set up.
To say grouse numbers are down,now let's open a new season in the same sentence is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
I'm not trying to compare turkey and grouse behavior, or the hunting methods. I'm also not insinuating you will call in grouse or use a blind. Not sure where you came up with that. The comparison was simply that we hunt male turkeys in the spring, just like the proposal to hunt male grouse in the spring.
Do some reading on bird biology. A high number of males is not that important for population dynamics. Hen survival in the fall when they are still in their nesting broods is far more important than the loss of some males after breeding season.
YMMV.
Post by: notsosneaky on August 25, 2020, 09:26:01 PM
Yup just like bows. They don't really fall under primitive anymore either. Since ML are considered primitive why don't they get a longer season like archery. ML spring season is the shortest out of the 3.Not that I am against but they went away from primitive when they went inline and then 209 primers. Find me a definition of primitive that fits what we use in muzzle loader season.I dont view muzzle loader season as primitive, just a different method. Imo the sight restrictions are the limiting factor.
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Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
Don’t get too wrapped up in the details, wdfw could let everyone hunt any season with any weapon and it wouldn’t matter if there are no animals to shoot at.
Keep your eyes on the prize boys this seems like bread and circus to me.
Post by: duckmen1 on August 25, 2020, 09:28:09 PM
Post by: gutsnthegrass on August 26, 2020, 10:02:00 AM
It would be nice to see a OTC spring bear season too. There are way too many bears around.
Post by: trophyhunt on August 26, 2020, 11:31:21 AM
People act like 1 power scopes bring you closer view of the animal making it easier. All it does is allow a clearer site picture for people who have issues with eye site.anyone have a link to a true 1x scope? I can’t seem to find one, I like the idea, even like the idea of regular scopes on muzzy’s.
Although I can guess there are some that will try to stretch the law.
Post by: buckfvr on August 26, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
Zeiss Victory V8
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2020, 12:59:25 PM
I'm not doing any reading up on bird biology,It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that it takes a male and female bird to reproduce.OTC spring bear really?With respect to OTC spring bears, loss of special permit revenues could easily be countered by tacking five bucks on the price of a spring tag. I hate the permit system as a revenue generator, and have repeatedly voiced this. It's the ghost of Dave Ware.
If asked by wdfw I would say ,yes. But do you guys really think that they will give up the buckets of money they make in permits?
Mule deer /no antlerless harvest statewide, permits or otherwise.
Spring grouse /NO
Compare spring grouse to Turkey hunting is a very poor comparison.
Have you ever seen a herd of grouse hanging out in a ag fields.
Are you gonna call in some grouse,you got your spring grouse blind set up.
To say grouse numbers are down,now let's open a new season in the same sentence is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
I'm not trying to compare turkey and grouse behavior, or the hunting methods. I'm also not insinuating you will call in grouse or use a blind. Not sure where you came up with that. The comparison was simply that we hunt male turkeys in the spring, just like the proposal to hunt male grouse in the spring.
Do some reading on bird biology. A high number of males is not that important for population dynamics. Hen survival in the fall when they are still in their nesting broods is far more important than the loss of some males after breeding season.
YMMV.
How many females will be shot with eggs inside them .
Makes no sense to me to play around with numbers on the decline for some extra permit dollars.Its a typical WDFW move,before you know it there won't be a season at all ,or a handful of grouse permits will be handed out for the entire grouse season.I can see the future now grouse OIL permit .
Post by: kselkhunter on August 26, 2020, 01:03:38 PM
A 1x scope with a nice reticle, dot, etc., gives the hunter faster and more precise target acquisition. Not an eye sight issue at all. Plus a quality 1x lets you aim both eyes open.
Zeiss Victory V8
I have a crosshair insert in my globe front sight that is painted with glow in the dark paint (that I charge before lowlight conditions start), and an adjustable aperture peep insert in the rear peep for better focus and accuracy out past 100 yards.
The primary advantage a 1x scope would provide an advantage for is the potential extra light gathering due to its lens coatings.
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2020, 01:17:26 PM
A 1x scope with a nice reticle, dot, etc., gives the hunter faster and more precise target acquisition. Not an eye sight issue at all. Plus a quality 1x lets you aim both eyes open.Ya it kinda sounds like a modern firearm.
Zeiss Victory V8
If I said you can put a scope on your muzzle loader but now have to hunt modern firearm season how would you feel.
Post by: stlusn30-06 on August 26, 2020, 01:51:18 PM
A 1x scope with a nice reticle, dot, etc., gives the hunter faster and more precise target acquisition. Not an eye sight issue at all. Plus a quality 1x lets you aim both eyes open.Ya it kinda sounds like a modern firearm.
Zeiss Victory V8
If I said you can put a scope on your muzzle loader but now have to hunt modern firearm season how would you feel.
Really at that point, I don't know why anyone would bother with modern firearm. Unless you consistently need to take shots over 250yds. Which if you "need" to do, is another discussion. We just aren't talking about the muzzle loading equipment of even 25 years ago. To get your own special season in prime conditions, there should be a bigger challenge on the table then a scoped 200yrd shot being the limiting factor.
Post by: buckfvr on August 26, 2020, 02:35:55 PM
A 1x scope with a nice reticle, dot, etc., gives the hunter faster and more precise target acquisition. Not an eye sight issue at all. Plus a quality 1x lets you aim both eyes open.
Zeiss Victory V8
I have a crosshair insert in my globe front sight that is painted with glow in the dark paint (that I charge before lowlight conditions start), and an adjustable aperture peep insert in the rear peep for better focus and accuracy out past 100 yards.
The primary advantage a 1x scope would provide an advantage for is the potential extra light gathering due to its lens coatings.
"and an adjustable peep insert in the rear peep for better focus and accuracy out past 100 yards".
BUT !! Certainly not as good as a 1x scope.
I made peace with 209 primers but am not good with scopes....(for muzzleloader seasons)
Post by: buckfvr on August 26, 2020, 03:07:41 PM
[/quote]
Ya it kinda sounds like a modern firearm.
If I said you can put a scope on your muzzle loader but now have to hunt modern firearm season how would you feel.
[/quote]
Thats always been the option, since for ever. Nothing new or just though of.
Post by: hunter399 on August 26, 2020, 03:51:10 PM
Ya it kinda sounds like a modern firearm.
If I said you can put a scope on your muzzle loader but now have to hunt modern firearm season how would you feel.
[/quote]
Thats always been the option, since for ever. Nothing new or just though of.
[/quote]
Yes you are correct ,you can put a scope on a muzzleloader for modern firearm season.
But nobody is happy with that.So let's do away with muzzle loader season and add a few days to modern ,since now that you add a scope ,maybe a drop retical ,the only thing primitive is its a single shot.
Post by: JoeVon on August 27, 2020, 06:05:17 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on August 27, 2020, 08:44:39 AM
The main reason I can think of for someone to stay modern in that case is to hunt units that don't have an early muzzy season. (I'm assuming the person doesn't have conflicts with dates for other things.)A 1x scope with a nice reticle, dot, etc., gives the hunter faster and more precise target acquisition. Not an eye sight issue at all. Plus a quality 1x lets you aim both eyes open.Ya it kinda sounds like a modern firearm.
Zeiss Victory V8
If I said you can put a scope on your muzzle loader but now have to hunt modern firearm season how would you feel.
Really at that point, I don't know why anyone would bother with modern firearm. Unless you consistently need to take shots over 250yds. Which if you "need" to do, is another discussion. We just aren't talking about the muzzle loading equipment of even 25 years ago. To get your own special season in prime conditions, there should be a bigger challenge on the table then a scoped 200yrd shot being the limiting factor.
Post by: buckfvr on August 27, 2020, 09:28:44 AM
Post by: ibuyre on September 21, 2020, 06:05:38 PM
Post by: ibuyre on September 21, 2020, 06:10:37 PM
I really hate how they dangle .223 for deer, but also include a note that they'd limit magazine size if they did that. I hunt with 20 round mags in my .308 all of the time, I've never shot more than 2x at something and usually only load it up half way. I do not want to be made a criminal for not wanting to buy another magazine. This is a dirty trick...I noticed that and said I hunt with 223 in other states and would like to see it hear. BUT the mag restriction idea I am against and that I have never taken more than 2 shots. BUT I normally hunt with a 20rd mag, because that is what is common and readily available. Don't make people have to go buy something that they can't find, that won't be reliable because it's a one off mag made to meet your requirement.
Post by: greenhead_killer on September 21, 2020, 06:11:01 PM
Post by: fireweed on September 26, 2020, 07:49:49 AM
Now they are proposing to do this again as one of their options! ITs in boundary changes and elk proposals. Make sure to comment that the Norway Pass unit needs to be open to other forms of hunting by staying in Margaret, or Changing rules in Loowit.
Post by: bearpaw on September 26, 2020, 07:52:15 AM
This is in boundary proposals: moving Norway pass elk are to Loowit Unit (which is a closed to hunting unit except for elk/goat permit hunters). When Weyco closed down the WDFW tried this with before--they proposed to move all the North Monument to the Loowit and have permmits for elk. This closes 5000 acres of public land to deer, bear, grouse, predator hunting. I screamed and jumped up and down on this forum and with folks at the WDFW. Ultimately, the Norway pass area was kept in a hunting unit (Margaret).
Now they are proposing to do this again as one of their options! Make sure to comment that the Norway Pass unit needs to be open to other forms of hunting by staying in Margaret, or Changing rules in Loowit.
Good point to make! :tup:
Post by: baldopepper on September 26, 2020, 08:19:59 AM
On the whole letting people put scopes on ML. I said no, and that I would rather that they included old 1890s single shot black powder rifles in the ML before they start letting people put scopes on them. To me that's more in the theme of a primitive weapon than even the 209 inlines. Break out the old trapdoors and rolling blocks.I don't know if anyone on here has been to Utah on their early ML hunt, but it's crazy. They've virtually done away with any restrictions on equipment and it's as popular and as crowded as the modern rifle hunt. Many of the hunters there claim they are accurate out to 300-400 yards. I'm no expert on it, but I don't see any reason to have an early hunt or reason to give any advantage to hunters using these types of updated muzzleloaders. Allowing optics is the first step in opening up to the ML hunt to becoming a single shot high powered rifle hunt.Big no for me on that one