Post by: Bushcraft on January 04, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
These new 6-year term Commissioners are RABIDLY hard-left moonbats that do not believe in the North American Model, don't believe that stakeholders in the hunting and fishing communities should be prioritized over bird watchers and flower sniffers, and put their own personal beliefs above scientific facts when it comes to managing wildlife and wild places. (I personally experienced the latter while serving as the token Hunter on the Wildlife Diversity Advisory Council when Koontz was the Chair and still have the e-mails to prove it. It's important to note that of the two WDFW employees responsible for managing the WDAC at the time, Penny Becker went on to work for Inslee and Amy Windrope meteorically rose from Olympia-cubicle nobody to Region 4 Director to the Deputy Director under the utterly worthless Joe Stohr.) Follow the bread-crumbs folks.
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/second-named-to-wdfw-commission/?fbclid=IwAR1pDYSzVUkVEbow4cO59CouULBnMCIWj9qSGN6xMW8x0TlmI1byfg174fc
This is what happens when people vote for Democrats (and support so-called hunting organizations that are led by and support Democrats). THEY ARE NOT YOUR/OUR FRIENDS!!! The last two D's that didn't toe the party line (Blake/Takko) were axed from the campaign fund tit due to their pro-2A and pro-hunting stances and were handily beaten by new Republicans. Unfortunately, gone is any common sense conduit into the Democrat's caucus.
This legislative session and all future Commission meetings are going to be rough and will need constant vigilance. It's going to be a bare knuckle political fight for the foreseeable future. Buckle up!
Post by: Weatherby92 on January 04, 2021, 08:25:01 PM
Post by: hunter399 on January 04, 2021, 08:33:42 PM
Post by: nwhunter on January 04, 2021, 08:49:55 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 04, 2021, 09:14:34 PM
You know its not good when shes from Port Townsend :dunno: Plenty of college education and environmental protection pedigrees... Someone needs to step up I guess..
There are plenty of excellent pro-hunting and pro-fishing candidates that appreciate the environmental aspects. Unfortunately, they have to go through Inslee's office for appointment. Tough filter for any right-minded individual to wade through.
Post by: zwickeyman on January 04, 2021, 09:22:05 PM
Post by: Special T on January 04, 2021, 09:58:05 PM
Post by: Cougartail on January 04, 2021, 11:16:46 PM
Holding a fishing/hunting license for x amount of years should be a requirement for commission seats. I've never liked the idea of somebody telling us what's good and never supported fishing or hunting. It's like pissing down our backs and telling us it's rain. With that said,Inslee is garbage so I didn't really expect much out of him but garbage.. So really did you all expect much.
:yeah:
Post by: Special T on January 04, 2021, 11:22:43 PM
Holding a fishing/hunting license for x amount of years should be a requirement for commission seats. I've never liked the idea of somebody telling us what's good and never supported fishing or hunting. It's like pissing down our backs and telling us it's rain. With that said,Inslee is garbage so I didn't really expect much out of him but garbage.. So really did you all expect much.
:yeah:
I fully agree... Unfortunately when the WDFW gets $ from the general fund it becomes much harder for sportsmen to drive the bus. Especially in this state.
Post by: MADMAX on January 04, 2021, 11:32:33 PM
I'm ashamed to say I'm from Washington
It's turned into quite the spandex fest around here anymore
I only wish my wife would agree it's time to go
Post by: jay.sharkbait on January 05, 2021, 06:20:16 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on January 05, 2021, 06:26:24 AM
Nothing amazes or shocks me anymore
I'm ashamed to say I'm from Washington
It's turned into quite the spandex fest around here anymore
I only wish my wife would agree it's time to go
:yeah: We have fallen so far, and the downward spiral seems to have no end.
I never thought I'd feel that way about WA State, but I'm right there with you.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 05, 2021, 06:27:37 AM
Post by: Smokepole on January 05, 2021, 07:00:33 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on January 05, 2021, 08:20:23 AM
Lorna Smith has consistently taken positions that are antagonistic to the WDFW's mission of providing recreational and commercial opportunities and her appointment will undoubtedly lead to less opportunities for hunters and anglers
Post by: bearhunter99 on January 05, 2021, 08:38:26 AM
Nothing amazes or shocks me anymore
I'm ashamed to say I'm from Washington
It's turned into quite the spandex fest around here anymore
I only wish my wife would agree it's time to go
:yeah: We have fallen so far, and the downward spiral seems to have no end.
I never thought I'd feel that way about WA State, but I'm right there with you.
If you had asked me 15 or 20 years ago I would have told you I would probably die in this state. Now we are making our plans to exit as soon as the youngest is out of school in 5 years as long as I can make it work budget wise. This state has degraded so fast in the last 10-15 years and it is snowballing now and gaining speed, especially with the whole COVID issue with everyone working form home. The west side is moving east and now trying to impose their beliefs on their new neighbors, it's all about the "Move next to an airport and then complain about the noise" class of idiots. :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 05, 2021, 08:45:16 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 05, 2021, 08:45:54 AM
There is an opportunity to block the confirmation through senate. We all need to be working hard to keep Lorna Smith off the commission. If I could make a suggestion, I would leave out the wild partisan language from the original post and focus on issues.
Lorna Smith has consistently taken positions that are antagonistic to the WDFW's mission of providing recreational and commercial opportunities and her appointment will undoubtedly lead to less opportunities for hunters and anglers
Long shot, but it's certainly worth a try.
And sorry, but I'm not going to fool myself or anyone else by pretending that this isn't a deeply partisan issue.
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 08:47:21 AM
There is an opportunity to block the confirmation through senate. We all need to be working hard to keep Lorna Smith off the commission. If I could make a suggestion, I would leave out the wild partisan language from the original post and focus on issues.
Lorna Smith has consistently taken positions that are antagonistic to the WDFW's mission of providing recreational and commercial opportunities and her appointment will undoubtedly lead to less opportunities for hunters and anglers
every word of it was true though :twocents:
unintended consequences of voting D ticket, and it ain't going to get blocked at the senate.
Although I will write them anyways.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on January 05, 2021, 08:51:01 AM
This is a common problem for hunters. We need a clearinghouse that can send hundreds or thousands of "auto" comments on these issues. The antis have that tool and use it with success. We just play defense too much.
Post by: hunter399 on January 05, 2021, 08:55:27 AM
RE-Election
You got to keep the blue haired lesbian happy,the dudes that smell like women once a month,granola,spandex poppers.
But really inslee has a certain fan base and everything he does for the next two years will be to keep them happy.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 05, 2021, 08:58:48 AM
We ALL need to write them. This is pretty important.
This is a common problem for hunters. We need a clearinghouse that can send hundreds or thousands of "auto" comments on these issues. The antis have that tool and use it with success. We just play defense too much.
Agreed 100%.
Working on it now.
Post by: Dave Workman on January 05, 2021, 09:10:28 AM
:dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 09:15:04 AM
Would it be indelicate to ask everyone at this point who they voted for last fall?
:dunno:
Yeah...I think the point is made well enough. Need to not loose focus on the goal post, and that's getting heard.
Post by: Bullkllr on January 05, 2021, 09:31:48 AM
I'm all for valuing differing input, but this seems concerning (at best).
Post by: Dave Workman on January 05, 2021, 09:35:51 AM
Hell raisers. Showed up on the capitol steps with hunting dogs, lotsa camo and orange, probably a few guns here and there :tup: and a pretty good grouch.
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 09:41:53 AM
Maybe it's time to resurrect the old SPORTSMAN'S RIGHTS COALITION from back in the 1980s.Yes please, join with livestock producers and other stake holders as well.
Hell raisers. Showed up on the capitol steps with hunting dogs, lotsa camo and orange, probably a few guns here and there :tup: and a pretty good grouch.
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: fishngamereaper on January 05, 2021, 09:51:26 AM
I've always been on the bubble when the conversation comes up but maybe it's time for an all in financial protest.
No one buys license's this year. :twocents:
We keep getting played because we appreciate the opportunities they "give" us... which they keep taking away, which will eventually lead to nothing.
Post by: hunter399 on January 05, 2021, 09:53:00 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 05, 2021, 10:24:20 AM
Would it be indelicate to ask everyone at this point who they voted for last fall?
:dunno:
...or indelicate to ask what voting machines the state's been using and who does the counting/ballot entry?
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
Money talks...
I've always been on the bubble when the conversation comes up but maybe it's time for an all in financial protest.
No one buys license's this year. :twocents:
We keep getting played because we appreciate the opportunities they "give" us... which they keep taking away, which will eventually lead to nothing.
:yeah:
This is why in the article it say's WDFW is trying to "expand their tent" - which means new revenue streams.
WDFW knows hunting is, and will continue to decline, the next two 3 year cycles will suck bad, maybe this one too if its kyboshed and resubmitted, if that is possible?
Post by: WSU on January 05, 2021, 10:28:36 AM
Post by: MR5x5 on January 05, 2021, 10:29:39 AM
Money talks...
I've always been on the bubble when the conversation comes up but maybe it's time for an all in financial protest.
No one buys license's this year. :twocents:
We keep getting played because we appreciate the opportunities they "give" us... which they keep taking away, which will eventually lead to nothing.
This ultimately, sadly, is what it comes down to. If you play in their game you are supporting them and are complicit at some level. Been out of WA big game for years now. Sure it is inconvenient, but it feels right.
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 10:30:04 AM
As opportunities continue to dwindle, I get more and more convinced to focus my hunting and fishing out of state. This seems like just more of the same accelerating trend to me.
fixed
Post by: Special T on January 05, 2021, 10:31:44 AM
Money talks...
I've always been on the bubble when the conversation comes up but maybe it's time for an all in financial protest.
No one buys license's this year. :twocents:
We keep getting played because we appreciate the opportunities they "give" us... which they keep taking away, which will eventually lead to nothing.
:yeah:
This is why in the article it say's WDFW is trying to "expand their tent" - which means new revenue streams.
WDFW knows hunting is, and will continue to decline, the next two 3 year cycles will suck bad, maybe this one too if its kyboshed and resubmitted, if that is possible?
But they haven't figured out how to pay for it! The WDFW doesnt want to get merged with the Parks but guess what... The state doesnt want to support the parks or the department!
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 10:35:09 AM
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Bushcraft on January 05, 2021, 11:47:20 AM
https://safariclub.org/hunter-advocacy-action-center/
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 11:48:48 AM
Post by: RB on January 05, 2021, 12:22:49 PM
For those who may need a clearer explanation (me), one of the new appointees is the executive direction of this organization http://westernwildlife.org/#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20Western%20Wildlife%20Outreach%20is%20to%20provide%3A&text=Education%20on%20how%20local%20residents,ideas%2C%20opinions%2C%20and%20concerns. (http://westernwildlife.org/#:~:text=The%20purpose%20of%20Western%20Wildlife%20Outreach%20is%20to%20provide%3A&text=Education%20on%20how%20local%20residents,ideas%2C%20opinions%2C%20and%20concerns.)
I'm all for valuing differing input, but this seems concerning (at best).
This is how they will fix the revenue stream, Carnivores, they know that people want to see them, so they will make Washington a vacation destination for ECO-tourism and people will pay to see them. Meanwhile those of us that live here will be shut out of the wilderness to accommodate the Grizzly Bear, and wolves that will decimate all of our ungulates.
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 12:24:12 PM
Ya
Post by: fishngamereaper on January 05, 2021, 12:26:57 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 12:30:35 PM
I wouldn't mind going back, I was there just before the wolf introduction. This time I'd like to hike/camp a ways in and fish, roam and take pics.
Figure with COVID travel restrictions it would be a good time to go, less hoards of Asians.
Post by: Cougartail on January 05, 2021, 12:38:16 PM
I think Yellowstone seen a big bump with the wolves in cages and for a while after, but then a decline as the park died.
I wouldn't mind going back, I was there just before the wolf introduction. This time I'd like to hike/camp a ways in and fish, roam and take pics.
Figure with COVID travel restrictions it would be a good time to go, less hoards of Asians.
Asians???? You obviously haven't checked in with your PC advisor. We nolonger label anyone anything. :chuckle:
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on January 05, 2021, 12:51:28 PM
SCI's Hunter Advocacy Action Center is working on it. Will let you know when it's ready for roll out. We need to stop this at the Committee level with a Do Not Recommend for both Koontz and Smith.Great work! Thank you
https://safariclub.org/hunter-advocacy-action-center/
Post by: follow maggie on January 05, 2021, 02:52:10 PM
Post by: Practical Approach on January 05, 2021, 04:04:04 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 05, 2021, 05:18:13 PM
Post by: MADMAX on January 05, 2021, 05:29:31 PM
Patty and Maria will help
Hahaha
Post by: follow maggie on January 05, 2021, 05:31:43 PM
Ha
Patty and Maria will help
Hahaha
They don’t have anything to do with it. It’s the state senators that do.
Post by: MADMAX on January 05, 2021, 05:33:54 PM
Thanks
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 05:46:50 PM
use this map, click your area, and find your senator
https://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/displaydistrict/7
Post by: brokentrail on January 05, 2021, 06:43:03 PM
Mine is Shelly Short, she'll do her part.
use this map, click your area, and find your senator
https://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/displaydistrict/7
Thanks for that @KFhunter. I have emailed my senator and representatives too.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 05, 2021, 06:46:54 PM
It's a very safe bet that the Republicans will vote against these radical appointees. PLEASE DON'T WASTE THEIR TIME. They are on our side.
Instead, contact the D's and urge them to have Inslee & Co. find better, far more balanced choices for our Commissioners. Please understand that you will be fighting an uphill battle since the the Chair is a big time animal rights and anti-hunter guy and the Vice Chair is basically a socialist.
• Senator Andy Billig (D) Andy.Billig@leg.wa.gov Senate Majority Leader
Senate Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources & Parks Committee
• Senator Kevin Van De Wege (D) Kevin.VanDeWege@leg.wa.gov (Chair)
• Senator Jesse Salomon (D) Jesse.Salomon@leg.wa.gov (Vice Chair)
• Senator Christine Rolfes (D) Christine.Rolfes@leg.wa.gov
• Senator Judy Warnick (R) Judy.Warnick@leg.wa.gov (Ranking Minority Member)
• Senator Shelly Short (R) Shelly.Short@leg.wa.gov
• Senator Jim Honeyford (R) Jim.Honeyford@leg.wa.gov
Post by: bbarnes on January 05, 2021, 07:40:06 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 05, 2021, 07:54:30 PM
Post by: Platensek-po on January 05, 2021, 08:08:56 PM
It's a simple problem easy to solve DEFUND WDFW use the power of the pocket book !!!!!!!!!!! Don't buy there mismanaged broken sick fish and wildlife and lack of access product.
Yes that way they can say “see no one even wants to hunt here so why have hunting?” And then they can shut it down. The exact opposite should happen. More people should participate to have the loudest voice possible. Giving up will solve nothing
Post by: ne kid on January 05, 2021, 08:17:01 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on January 05, 2021, 08:22:16 PM
It's a simple problem easy to solve DEFUND WDFW use the power of the pocket book !!!!!!!!!!! Don't buy there mismanaged broken sick fish and wildlife and lack of access product.
Yes that way they can say “see no one even wants to hunt here so why have hunting?” And then they can shut it down. The exact opposite should happen. More people should participate to have the loudest voice possible. Giving up will solve nothing
You understand that exponentially increasing hunter numbers to increase our voice, will negatively affect our already struggling game populations, which in turn will continue to lead to less opportunity, and possibly no opportunity....
Post by: KFhunter on January 05, 2021, 08:26:30 PM
I think to have any chance at stopping these appointments there needs to be a set of reasons the Democratic Senators listed above will not support these nominees. Do we have anything that might appeal to these particular legislators?
Have more luck with livestock producers, love to see you get in bed with cattlemen.
But that is the angle we need.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 05, 2021, 09:02:43 PM
How will the cattlemen help convince these Dem senators to reject these appointments? I'm not following your logic.I think to have any chance at stopping these appointments there needs to be a set of reasons the Democratic Senators listed above will not support these nominees. Do we have anything that might appeal to these particular legislators?
Have more luck with livestock producers, love to see you get in bed with cattlemen.
But that is the angle we need.
Post by: ne kid on January 05, 2021, 09:04:20 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 05, 2021, 09:12:25 PM
I think to have any chance at stopping these appointments there needs to be a set of reasons the Democratic Senators listed above will not support these nominees. Do we have anything that might appeal to these particular legislators?
Excellent question! Work is being done to pull that information together.
Post by: KFhunter on January 06, 2021, 09:18:21 AM
I don't see how you can't understand cattlemen want responsible wolf management, and so too do hunters. These new commissioners aren't a step in that direction. Vilification of other user groups even when goals align is not going to help the end goal of blocking these appointments.How will the cattlemen help convince these Dem senators to reject these appointments? I'm not following your logic.I think to have any chance at stopping these appointments there needs to be a set of reasons the Democratic Senators listed above will not support these nominees. Do we have anything that might appeal to these particular legislators?
Have more luck with livestock producers, love to see you get in bed with cattlemen.
But that is the angle we need.
Stop drinking the "cattlemen are bad" kool-aid..They're a pretty big lobby and pretty big voice when it comes to getting senators' attention.
Get the timber industry in on it too, andvwe migbt have a chance.
Get non-hunting forest users who want to see deer, elk and a healthier ecosystem and it might be a slam dunk.
Time is critical though..but the ground work will help resist the commissions sure to come harmful rules during publuc comment period.
Does this pic look like blood thirsty kill em all SSS? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210106/f4d9f6d7a0137a22c1bdd5b7a562dc12.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 06, 2021, 09:36:03 AM
When the hikers are fearful of an encounter and must protect themselves at all times we are in trouble. As it is now they think a cougar death here or there and a person getting treed by a wolf pack is ok. I personally think its a precursor and hope that wolf management is really a tool used by WDFW. But also know that any season here is expected to be challenged in court. When we agree that WA will look at a wolf season when we have "X" number of breeding pairs then it's challenged in court to be changed to dispersed across the state that season might never be seen. :twocents:
Post by: idahohuntr on January 06, 2021, 09:41:00 AM
I don't understand your strange, misguided rant. I'm not vilifying anyone. I'm asking what points can be raised (by cattlemen or whoever) to sink these nominations. I'm not that familiar with the Dem senators on the committee - so I'm interested in what appeal could be made. Writing a bunch of rants to liberal senators about wolves being bad and we cant have these predator lovers on the commission will not accomplish a single thing. I'm looking for something that could more successfully sink these nominations. What messages/tactics do the cattlemen have to share that might be successful? I'm not opposing them, I just don't think their endorsement (or lack of) will mean squat. They have little political power in this instance in my opinion...but maybe they have some good insights or messages that will resonate - if so, please share.I don't see how you can't understand cattlemen want responsible wolf management, and so too do hunters. These new commissioners aren't a step in that direction. Vilification of other user groups even when goals align is not going to help the end goal of blocking these appointments.How will the cattlemen help convince these Dem senators to reject these appointments? I'm not following your logic.I think to have any chance at stopping these appointments there needs to be a set of reasons the Democratic Senators listed above will not support these nominees. Do we have anything that might appeal to these particular legislators?
Have more luck with livestock producers, love to see you get in bed with cattlemen.
But that is the angle we need.
Stop drinking the "cattlemen are bad" kool-aid..They're a pretty big lobby and pretty big voice when it comes to getting senators' attention.
Get the timber industry in on it too, andvwe migbt have a chance.
Get non-hunting forest users who want to see deer, elk and a healthier ecosystem and it might be a slam dunk.
Time is critical though..but the ground work will help resist the commissions sure to come harmful rules during publuc comment period.
Does this pic look like blood thirsty kill em all SSS? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210106/f4d9f6d7a0137a22c1bdd5b7a562dc12.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 06, 2021, 09:54:14 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 06, 2021, 09:54:21 AM
Post by: MR5x5 on January 06, 2021, 09:57:12 AM
The peeps at the top are money whores. The peeps in the middle are useful idiots.
If you don't affect their money, or their sponsors money, you will have no affect.
We all know how to cut off the money, most just aren't willing to go there. Try it. Give up on this state for a year. You'll survive and will have made an actual statement.
Sad, but simple.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 06, 2021, 10:23:46 AM
Problem is Cantwell and Murray are both heavily backed by these leaf licking , pro wolf, pro cougar, pro bear groups and they will confirm these two because they come from those groups. So we could demand diversity in the commission and it would fall on deaf ears.
I agree with the sentiment, but Cantwell and Murray have nothing to do with these appointments.
State level Senators on the Natural Resources Committee will make that decision.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 06, 2021, 10:33:55 AM
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2021, 10:46:04 AM
Problem is Cantwell and Murray are both heavily backed by these leaf licking , pro wolf, pro cougar, pro bear groups and they will confirm these two because they come from those groups. So we could demand diversity in the commission and it would fall on deaf ears.Cantwell and Murray don't have a say in this.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: emac on January 06, 2021, 10:46:29 AM
These are the Natural Resource Committee members that will either vote to Recommend or Not Recommend Inslee's appointment nominees..
It's a very safe bet that the Republicans will vote against these radical appointees. PLEASE DON'T WASTE THEIR TIME. They are on our side.
Instead, contact the D's and urge them to have Inslee & Co. find better, far more balanced choices for our Commissioners. Please understand that you will be fighting an uphill battle since the the Chair is a big time animal rights and anti-hunter guy and the Vice Chair is basically a socialist.
•Senator Andy Billig (D) Andy.Billig@leg.wa.gov Senate Majority Leader
Senate Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources & Parks Committee
•Senator Kevin Van De Wege (D) Kevin.VanDeWege@leg.wa.gov (Chair)
•Senator Jesse Salomon (D) Jesse.Salomon@leg.wa.gov (Vice Chair)
•Senator Christine Rolfes (D) Christine.Rolfes@leg.wa.gov
•Senator Judy Warnick (R) Judy.Warnick@leg.wa.gov (Ranking Minority Member)
•Senator Shelly Short (R) Shelly.Short@leg.wa.gov
•Senator Jim Honeyford (R) Jim.Honeyford@leg.wa.gov
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: bigtex on January 06, 2021, 10:46:35 AM
I stand corrected then who is on the Natural resources committee that we should contact and ask for diversity?Already been posted who's on the committee.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: KFhunter on January 06, 2021, 11:02:14 AM
I don't understand your strange, misguided rant. I'm not vilifying anyone. I'm asking what points can be raised (by cattlemen or whoever) to sink these nominations. I'm not that familiar with the Dem senators on the committee - so I'm interested in what appeal could be made. Writing a bunch of rants to liberal senators about wolves being bad and we cant have these predator lovers on the commission will not accomplish a single thing. I'm looking for something that could more successfully sink these nominations. What messages/tactics do the cattlemen have to share that might be successful? I'm not opposing them, I just don't think their endorsement (or lack of) will mean squat. They have little political power in this instance in my opinion...but maybe they have some good insights or messages that will resonate - if so, please share.I don't see how you can't understand cattlemen want responsible wolf management, and so too do hunters. These new commissioners aren't a step in that direction. Vilification of other user groups even when goals align is not going to help the end goal of blocking these appointments.How will the cattlemen help convince these Dem senators to reject these appointments? I'm not following your logic.I think to have any chance at stopping these appointments there needs to be a set of reasons the Democratic Senators listed above will not support these nominees. Do we have anything that might appeal to these particular legislators?
Have more luck with livestock producers, love to see you get in bed with cattlemen.
But that is the angle we need.
Stop drinking the "cattlemen are bad" kool-aid..They're a pretty big lobby and pretty big voice when it comes to getting senators' attention.
Get the timber industry in on it too, andvwe migbt have a chance.
Get non-hunting forest users who want to see deer, elk and a healthier ecosystem and it might be a slam dunk.
Time is critical though..but the ground work will help resist the commissions sure to come harmful rules during publuc comment period.
Does this pic look like blood thirsty kill em all SSS? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210106/f4d9f6d7a0137a22c1bdd5b7a562dc12.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
OK, I may have put the cart before the horse, as I don't think "we" can sink these nominations. It's a done deal :twocents:
I'm not saying don't bother writing letters, but lets be real here. It's done, there's no smoking gun.
a multi-user coalition to push back against a litany of new rules that is sure to come is the way forward.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 06, 2021, 11:27:53 AM
SCI will have the automated online letter submittal up shortly. I've seen the draft and will let you all know when it's live and ready to go.
Thank you.
Post by: buckfvr on January 06, 2021, 11:32:18 AM
You won't affect the mind of a zealot via email.
The peeps at the top are money *censored*s. The peeps in the middle are useful idiots.
If you don't affect their money, or their sponsors money, you will have no affect.
We all know how to cut off the money, most just aren't willing to go there. Try it. Give up on this state for a year. You'll survive and will have made an actual statement.
Sad, but simple.
:yeah: Yes its that simple.
Post by: madcow41 on January 07, 2021, 09:06:50 AM
These are the Natural Resource Committee members that will either vote to Recommend or Not Recommend Inslee's appointment nominees.
It's a very safe bet that the Republicans will vote against these radical appointees. PLEASE DON'T WASTE THEIR TIME. They are on our side.
Instead, contact the D's and urge them to have Inslee & Co. find better, far more balanced choices for our Commissioners. Please understand that you will be fighting an uphill battle since the the Chair is a big time animal rights and anti-hunter guy and the Vice Chair is basically a socialist.
• Senator Andy Billig (D) Andy.Billig@leg.wa.gov Senate Majority Leader
Senate Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources & Parks Committee
• Senator Kevin Van De Wege (D) Kevin.VanDeWege@leg.wa.gov (Chair)
• Senator Jesse Salomon (D) Jesse.Salomon@leg.wa.gov (Vice Chair)
• Senator Christine Rolfes (D) Christine.Rolfes@leg.wa.gov
• Senator Judy Warnick (R) Judy.Warnick@leg.wa.gov (Ranking Minority Member)
• Senator Shelly Short (R) Shelly.Short@leg.wa.gov
• Senator Jim Honeyford (R) Jim.Honeyford@leg.wa.gov
I would focus on your elected official instead of emailing the commission. https://app.leg.wa.gov/districtfinder/
If you aren’t their constituent they have no reason to listen to you. Also I recommend mailing in concerns, include a return address and request a response.
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 09:52:18 AM
Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation
·
We need your help NOW! We need to stop Governor Inslee’s two new appointments to the Fish and Wildlife Commission that may be in violation of RCW 77.04.040. This RCW says that the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists, yet the hunting community was NOT communicated with on these appointments. Contact the following members of the Senate Natural Resources Committee and Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig to retain balance on YOUR Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig
https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/memberEmail/3/0
Senate Natural Resources Committee
https://leg.wa.gov/.../Commi.../AWNP/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx
The Democrats in the Senate will not be swayed by the argument that these two are animal-rights extremists. They dont give a damn about that, in fact, most Democrats feel the same way and Koontz and Smith do. Our best arguments lie in the RCW.
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
1. When Bob Kehoe was removed from the Commission, he was not replaced with a person from the commercial fishing industry, now they have no presentation on the Commission in violation of 77.04.040.
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
3. By appointing two more animal-rights/environmental minded Commissioners it throws the Commission out of balance in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
4. RCW 77.04.040 was put in place to keep balance on the Commission, so all Washingtonians have a fair shot at enjoying the outdoors.
The Commission is the citizens’ representation on wildlife management, please help us restore fair citizens’’ representation on the Commission.
Post by: Wsucoug on January 07, 2021, 10:34:59 AM
I just saw this posted up on FB And thought it was pretty good on this subject.
Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation
·
We need your help NOW! We need to stop Governor Inslee’s two new appointments to the Fish and Wildlife Commission that may be in violation of RCW 77.04.040. This RCW says that the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists, yet the hunting community was NOT communicated with on these appointments. Contact the following members of the Senate Natural Resources Committee and Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig to retain balance on YOUR Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig
https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/memberEmail/3/0
Senate Natural Resources Committee
https://leg.wa.gov/.../Commi.../AWNP/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx
The Democrats in the Senate will not be swayed by the argument that these two are animal-rights extremists. They dont give a damn about that, in fact, most Democrats feel the same way and Koontz and Smith do. Our best arguments lie in the RCW.
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
1. When Bob Kehoe was removed from the Commission, he was not replaced with a person from the commercial fishing industry, now they have no presentation on the Commission in violation of 77.04.040.
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
3. By appointing two more animal-rights/environmental minded Commissioners it throws the Commission out of balance in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
4. RCW 77.04.040 was put in place to keep balance on the Commission, so all Washingtonians have a fair shot at enjoying the outdoors.
The Commission is the citizens’ representation on wildlife management, please help us restore fair citizens’’ representation on the Commission.
I saw this too. Was anyone here behind the FB post? I have a few questions and a couple recommendations.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 07, 2021, 10:37:11 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2021, 11:38:39 AM
Post by: Tpetie3509 on January 07, 2021, 11:55:58 AM
I know there are several of people that have dedicated much more time to battling the commission in this state than I, and for that I thank each and every one of you.
The anti groups are banded together and have a solid plan with form letters, attending our commission meetings from out-of-state, and being downright proactive. We can piss and moan all we want about what will or won't work but realistically the path forward has to be calculated and organized on our end to combat this and make any sort of dent.
We need someone that is willing to spearhead this to some degree and get everyone on the same page.
I am willing to bet there is someone on this forum that has the education/background to write up a formal letter that we can send to our local legislators/senators to have our voices heard,
someone who has the information of who/when/where to contact, and the message needs to be clear and concise that we have a voice in this state as outdoorsman and that we are not pleased with what is going on in Olympia on our behalf. The use of Zoom for the commission meetings means that a lot more of us should be actively watching and commenting on them, with respect and integrity in order to not be pushed to the side as "insert anti phrase here".
I'll be watching this closely and doing my part to have our voice heard.
-Todd
Post by: B4noon on January 07, 2021, 12:12:39 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 12:33:15 PM
I just saw this posted up on FB And thought it was pretty good on this subject.
Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation
·
We need your help NOW! We need to stop Governor Inslee’s two new appointments to the Fish and Wildlife Commission that may be in violation of RCW 77.04.040. This RCW says that the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists, yet the hunting community was NOT communicated with on these appointments. Contact the following members of the Senate Natural Resources Committee and Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig to retain balance on YOUR Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig
https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/memberEmail/3/0
Senate Natural Resources Committee
https://leg.wa.gov/.../Commi.../AWNP/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx
The Democrats in the Senate will not be swayed by the argument that these two are animal-rights extremists. They dont give a damn about that, in fact, most Democrats feel the same way and Koontz and Smith do. Our best arguments lie in the RCW.
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
1. When Bob Kehoe was removed from the Commission, he was not replaced with a person from the commercial fishing industry, now they have no presentation on the Commission in violation of 77.04.040.
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
3. By appointing two more animal-rights/environmental minded Commissioners it throws the Commission out of balance in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
4. RCW 77.04.040 was put in place to keep balance on the Commission, so all Washingtonians have a fair shot at enjoying the outdoors.
The Commission is the citizens’ representation on wildlife management, please help us restore fair citizens’’ representation on the Commission.
I saw this too. Was anyone here behind the FB post? I have a few questions and a couple recommendations.
What questions do you have? And recommendations?
Post by: Bob33 on January 07, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Is this missing a "not"?
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
Post by: Wsucoug on January 07, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
I just saw this posted up on FB And thought it was pretty good on this subject.
Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation
·
We need your help NOW! We need to stop Governor Inslee’s two new appointments to the Fish and Wildlife Commission that may be in violation of RCW 77.04.040. This RCW says that the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists, yet the hunting community was NOT communicated with on these appointments. Contact the following members of the Senate Natural Resources Committee and Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig to retain balance on YOUR Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig
https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/memberEmail/3/0
Senate Natural Resources Committee
https://leg.wa.gov/.../Commi.../AWNP/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx
The Democrats in the Senate will not be swayed by the argument that these two are animal-rights extremists. They dont give a damn about that, in fact, most Democrats feel the same way and Koontz and Smith do. Our best arguments lie in the RCW.
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
1. When Bob Kehoe was removed from the Commission, he was not replaced with a person from the commercial fishing industry, now they have no presentation on the Commission in violation of 77.04.040.
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
3. By appointing two more animal-rights/environmental minded Commissioners it throws the Commission out of balance in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
4. RCW 77.04.040 was put in place to keep balance on the Commission, so all Washingtonians have a fair shot at enjoying the outdoors.
The Commission is the citizens’ representation on wildlife management, please help us restore fair citizens’’ representation on the Commission.
I saw this too. Was anyone here behind the FB post? I have a few questions and a couple recommendations.
What questions do you have? And recommendations?
It was with respect to reaching a larger audience. Someone PM'ed me and passed my message along.
Post by: Wsucoug on January 07, 2021, 01:27:34 PM
We need someone that is willing to spearhead this to some degree and get everyone on the same page.
I would say in general, it seems like we are a fairly unorganized group. Sportsmen need to speak with a uniform voice; very often. We need to speak up even if it isn't "OUR" personal issue that we care about, because one by one, things are going to get picked off by the "others" even if we don't care about that particular issue today.
Without being organized, being the squeaky wheel just won't be loud enough.
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 01:28:19 PM
Is this missing a "not"?
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
looks like it huh
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 01:30:27 PM
We need someone that is willing to spearhead this to some degree and get everyone on the same page.
I would say in general, it seems like we are a fairly unorganized group. Sportsmen need to speak with a uniform voice; very often. We need to speak up even if it isn't "OUR" personal issue that we care about, because one by one, things are going to get picked off by the "others" even if we don't care about that particular issue today.
Without being organized, being the squeaky wheel just won't be loud enough.
For some time I have advocated joining a sportmen focused group, volunteering for that group and or a t a bare min make sure you write letters when some one posts something like this up.
basically yes you are correct otherwise sportsmen are too organized or lazy.
Post by: cougforester on January 07, 2021, 01:38:59 PM
Quote
Senator Billig,
Please reject the appointments of Lorna Smith and Fred Koontz. If these appointees are confirmed, RCW laws will be broken. RCW 77.04.040 discusses the goals and objectives of the commission and how it intends to represent a broad swath of citizens in the state. This includes environmental protection groups, however also includes alli incredibly important parts of natural resource user groups like hunters, recreation and commercial anglers, private landowners, bird watchers, hikers, etc.
If these two people are confirmed, the commercial fishing will not have a significant voice on the commission. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. Little if no input from organized hunters or recreational/ commercial fisherman was solicited prior to appointing these people. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. If these two people are confirmed, the commission will be out of balance in favor of heavily “environmental” minded, predator heavy, anti hunting minds that violates 77.04.040 by not maintaining a balance of reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife.
Please make the right choice and do not confirm these two appointments. Washington’s ungulate population, hunting and fishing heritage, and hundreds of millions of tax dollars generated by license sales, excise taxes from hunting equipment, and economic value from commercial fishing depends on your decision.
Thank you for your time.
From a concerned citizen and your constituent,
XXXXX
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2021, 01:42:01 PM
Post by: whackmaster on January 07, 2021, 01:48:09 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 02:12:33 PM
Here’s what I wrote. He’s actually my state senator. I’m not the best word smith but hey, better than nothing.QuoteSenator Billig,
Please reject the appointments of Lorna Smith and Fred Koontz. If these appointees are confirmed, RCW laws will be broken. RCW 77.04.040 discusses the goals and objectives of the commission and how it intends to represent a broad swath of citizens in the state. This includes environmental protection groups, however also includes alli incredibly important parts of natural resource user groups like hunters, recreation and commercial anglers, private landowners, bird watchers, hikers, etc.
If these two people are confirmed, the commercial fishing will not have a significant voice on the commission. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. Little if no input from organized hunters or recreational/ commercial fisherman was solicited prior to appointing these people. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. If these two people are confirmed, the commission will be out of balance in favor of heavily “environmental” minded, predator heavy, anti hunting minds that violates 77.04.040 by not maintaining a balance of reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife.
Please make the right choice and do not confirm these two appointments. Washington’s ungulate population, hunting and fishing heritage, and hundreds of millions of tax dollars generated by license sales, excise taxes from hunting equipment, and economic value from commercial fishing depends on your decision.
Thank you for your time.
From a concerned citizen and your constituent,
XXXXX
Excellent!
Very similar language has been used in the automated campaign that SCI's mothership will have out very shortly (I just proofed it), hopefully later this afternoon. Some other pressing issues in needed to be addressed in Colorado and Virginia or it would have been completed sooner.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 02:26:14 PM
SCI and HHC have traditionally maintained the strongest amount of clout among the legislators (since we have a full-time lobbyist and very involved volunteers like myself), but has done so with unpaid part-time volunteers that have other jobs and businesses that they must prioritize. Quite frankly, it's amazing what a relatively small group of volunteers have been able to do to fight some of the nonsense that comes out of Olympia every legislative session. We could use the help.
If any of you have any ideas on how to put a paid staff for hunter and hunting advocacy in place, I am all ears!
Post by: Tpetie3509 on January 07, 2021, 02:42:40 PM
Here’s what I wrote. He’s actually my state senator. I’m not the best word smith but hey, better than nothing.QuoteSenator Billig,
Please reject the appointments of Lorna Smith and Fred Koontz. If these appointees are confirmed, RCW laws will be broken. RCW 77.04.040 discusses the goals and objectives of the commission and how it intends to represent a broad swath of citizens in the state. This includes environmental protection groups, however also includes alli incredibly important parts of natural resource user groups like hunters, recreation and commercial anglers, private landowners, bird watchers, hikers, etc.
If these two people are confirmed, the commercial fishing will not have a significant voice on the commission. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. Little if no input from organized hunters or recreational/ commercial fisherman was solicited prior to appointing these people. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. If these two people are confirmed, the commission will be out of balance in favor of heavily “environmental” minded, predator heavy, anti hunting minds that violates 77.04.040 by not maintaining a balance of reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife.
Please make the right choice and do not confirm these two appointments. Washington’s ungulate population, hunting and fishing heritage, and hundreds of millions of tax dollars generated by license sales, excise taxes from hunting equipment, and economic value from commercial fishing depends on your decision.
Thank you for your time.
From a concerned citizen and your constituent,
XXXXX
Thank you. I think I speak for many of us that would like to do something, but don't know where to go or how to get started. I am going to send this to my state senator this evening.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 02:55:39 PM
Here’s what I wrote. He’s actually my state senator. I’m not the best word smith but hey, better than nothing.QuoteSenator Billig,
Please reject the appointments of Lorna Smith and Fred Koontz. If these appointees are confirmed, RCW laws will be broken. RCW 77.04.040 discusses the goals and objectives of the commission and how it intends to represent a broad swath of citizens in the state. This includes environmental protection groups, however also includes alli incredibly important parts of natural resource user groups like hunters, recreation and commercial anglers, private landowners, bird watchers, hikers, etc.
If these two people are confirmed, the commercial fishing will not have a significant voice on the commission. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. Little if no input from organized hunters or recreational/ commercial fisherman was solicited prior to appointing these people. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. If these two people are confirmed, the commission will be out of balance in favor of heavily “environmental” minded, predator heavy, anti hunting minds that violates 77.04.040 by not maintaining a balance of reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife.
Please make the right choice and do not confirm these two appointments. Washington’s ungulate population, hunting and fishing heritage, and hundreds of millions of tax dollars generated by license sales, excise taxes from hunting equipment, and economic value from commercial fishing depends on your decision.
Thank you for your time.
From a concerned citizen and your constituent,
XXXXX
Thank you. I think I speak for many of us that would like to do something, but don't know where to go or how to get started. I am going to send this to my state senator this evening.
No...thank you! Please send it to the Senate Majority leader and every member of the NR Committee I mentioned.
Post by: Tpetie3509 on January 07, 2021, 03:00:34 PM
With regard to the tip-of-the-spear organization of sportsmen, particularly in the hunting community, there aren't any statewide hunting .orgs that have paid staff like the anti-hunters and enviros .orgs (like Conservation Northwest for example), whose full-time job it is to be involved to varying degrees on a daily basis with both WDFW staff, the Commission, the Legislator, and the Governor's office.
SCI and HHC have traditionally maintained the strongest amount of clout among the legislators (since we have a full-time lobbyist and very involved volunteers like myself), but has done so with unpaid part-time volunteers that have other jobs and businesses that they must prioritize. Quite frankly, it's amazing what a relatively small group of volunteers have been able to do to fight some of the nonsense that comes out of Olympia every legislative session. We could use the help.
If any of you have any ideas on how to put a paid staff for hunter and hunting advocacy in place, I am all ears!
I don't have the brain power to even speculate on how to go about starting an organization. It appears that these organizations are 501c3's that take donations and fund raise (maybe sponsored by universities?) and are able to have paid positions. I for one would be willing to become involved and help where I can, I have spent a few hours listening to recent commission meetings and it makes me sick how little these folks on our commission even know about the subject at hand.
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
With regard to the tip-of-the-spear organization of sportsmen, particularly in the hunting community, there aren't any statewide hunting .orgs that have paid staff like the anti-hunters and enviros .orgs (like Conservation Northwest for example), whose full-time job it is to be involved to varying degrees on a daily basis with both WDFW staff, the Commission, the Legislator, and the Governor's office.
SCI and HHC have traditionally maintained the strongest amount of clout among the legislators (since we have a full-time lobbyist and very involved volunteers like myself), but has done so with unpaid part-time volunteers that have other jobs and businesses that they must prioritize. Quite frankly, it's amazing what a relatively small group of volunteers have been able to do to fight some of the nonsense that comes out of Olympia every legislative session. We could use the help.
If any of you have any ideas on how to put a paid staff for hunter and hunting advocacy in place, I am all ears!
I don't have the brain power to even speculate on how to go about starting an organization. It appears that these organizations are 501c3's that take donations and fund raise (maybe sponsored by universities?) and are able to have paid positions. I for one would be willing to become involved and help where I can, I have spent a few hours listening to recent commission meetings and it makes me sick how little these folks on our commission even know about the subject at hand.
It's all about fundraising. National orgs like SCI have economy of scale to do important stuff. Otherwise you need a very organized team.
Post by: Tpetie3509 on January 07, 2021, 03:14:11 PM
Here’s what I wrote. He’s actually my state senator. I’m not the best word smith but hey, better than nothing.QuoteSenator Billig,
Please reject the appointments of Lorna Smith and Fred Koontz. If these appointees are confirmed, RCW laws will be broken. RCW 77.04.040 discusses the goals and objectives of the commission and how it intends to represent a broad swath of citizens in the state. This includes environmental protection groups, however also includes alli incredibly important parts of natural resource user groups like hunters, recreation and commercial anglers, private landowners, bird watchers, hikers, etc.
If these two people are confirmed, the commercial fishing will not have a significant voice on the commission. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. Little if no input from organized hunters or recreational/ commercial fisherman was solicited prior to appointing these people. This is in violation of RCW 77.04.040. If these two people are confirmed, the commission will be out of balance in favor of heavily “environmental” minded, predator heavy, anti hunting minds that violates 77.04.040 by not maintaining a balance of reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife.
Please make the right choice and do not confirm these two appointments. Washington’s ungulate population, hunting and fishing heritage, and hundreds of millions of tax dollars generated by license sales, excise taxes from hunting equipment, and economic value from commercial fishing depends on your decision.
Thank you for your time.
From a concerned citizen and your constituent,
XXXXX
Thank you. I think I speak for many of us that would like to do something, but don't know where to go or how to get started. I am going to send this to my state senator this evening.
No...thank you! Please send it to the Senate Majority leader and every member of the NR Committee I mentioned.
Done.
Post by: Tpetie3509 on January 07, 2021, 03:16:27 PM
With regard to the tip-of-the-spear organization of sportsmen, particularly in the hunting community, there aren't any statewide hunting .orgs that have paid staff like the anti-hunters and enviros .orgs (like Conservation Northwest for example), whose full-time job it is to be involved to varying degrees on a daily basis with both WDFW staff, the Commission, the Legislator, and the Governor's office.
SCI and HHC have traditionally maintained the strongest amount of clout among the legislators (since we have a full-time lobbyist and very involved volunteers like myself), but has done so with unpaid part-time volunteers that have other jobs and businesses that they must prioritize. Quite frankly, it's amazing what a relatively small group of volunteers have been able to do to fight some of the nonsense that comes out of Olympia every legislative session. We could use the help.
If any of you have any ideas on how to put a paid staff for hunter and hunting advocacy in place, I am all ears!
I don't have the brain power to even speculate on how to go about starting an organization. It appears that these organizations are 501c3's that take donations and fund raise (maybe sponsored by universities?) and are able to have paid positions. I for one would be willing to become involved and help where I can, I have spent a few hours listening to recent commission meetings and it makes me sick how little these folks on our commission even know about the subject at hand.
It's all about fundraising. National orgs like SCI have economy of scale to do important stuff. Otherwise you need a very organized team.
Agreed, I will admit I haven't thought about SCI in particular. I'm going to look into the Columbia Basin chapter which would be local for me.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 05:37:32 PM
Link in the Washington's SCI website: http://sci-washington.com/advocacy.html
Link in the SCI website: https://safariclub.org/hunter-advocacy-action-center/
Please feel free to share with friends and on social media.
Thank you!
Allen
Post by: bearpaw on January 07, 2021, 05:39:42 PM
Post by: Odell on January 07, 2021, 05:45:08 PM
Nobody is going to change their minds.
I agree. It's over, the future of WA is California
Post by: bearpaw on January 07, 2021, 05:52:27 PM
Nobody is going to change their minds.
I agree. It's over, the future of WA is California
No doubt the future is pretty bleak for WA, but there is no chance if people give up, everyone needs to take action!
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 06:10:52 PM
With regard to the tip-of-the-spear organization of sportsmen, particularly in the hunting community, there aren't any statewide hunting .orgs that have paid staff like the anti-hunters and enviros .orgs (like Conservation Northwest for example), whose full-time job it is to be involved to varying degrees on a daily basis with both WDFW staff, the Commission, the Legislator, and the Governor's office.
SCI and HHC have traditionally maintained the strongest amount of clout among the legislators (since we have a full-time lobbyist and very involved volunteers like myself), but has done so with unpaid part-time volunteers that have other jobs and businesses that they must prioritize. Quite frankly, it's amazing what a relatively small group of volunteers have been able to do to fight some of the nonsense that comes out of Olympia every legislative session. We could use the help.
If any of you have any ideas on how to put a paid staff for hunter and hunting advocacy in place, I am all ears!
I don't have the brain power to even speculate on how to go about starting an organization. It appears that these organizations are 501c3's that take donations and fund raise (maybe sponsored by universities?) and are able to have paid positions. I for one would be willing to become involved and help where I can, I have spent a few hours listening to recent commission meetings and it makes me sick how little these folks on our commission even know about the subject at hand.
It's all about fundraising. National orgs like SCI have economy of scale to do important stuff. Otherwise you need a very organized team.
Agreed, I will admit I haven't thought about SCI in particular. I'm going to look into the Columbia Basin chapter which would be local for me.
I personally dont care what organization people join, but JOIN ONE! Become active and Insert yourself into part of the solution We dont need to reinvent the wheel we just need more help turning it! Just an hour or 2 a week in an organized fashion can have a huge impact.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 06:51:54 PM
We need people to get involved with the ones that already exist.
Here's how to join, and who to join at the national and local level, in this order:
1. The NRA or other similarly powerful organization to protect your gun rights. Lord knows the anti's are going to be pushing some seriously crappy laws.
2. SCI to protect your hunting rights. They are the 800 lb. gorilla in this space, are literally right across the street from the Hart Senate building in D.C. (donated by a generous benefactor) and have one of the largest PAC's in D.C. (and that's saying something!)
3. The conservation "critter club" that you have a particular affinity for...RMEF, MDF, WSF, DU, RMGA, etc., etc., etc. They do great work and need your help.
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 07:57:23 PM
Exactly. The last thing we need is another .org.I would substitute any local organization for #3. Washington Waterfowl association, Archery Assocation, a local sportsmens club like Tacoma Sportmen, Wildlife Committee of Washington or.... Conservation groups pretend to care about hunters and juice you. I would buy 2 memberships or up the comittment level to SCI (im not a member) before I would give my money to the likes of DU RMEF or other "conservation" orgs that will do nothing for the bare knuckle street fight we are about to enter. We need as manny scrappy fighters as possible. FYI while Im not a member of SCI I am a member of many others.
We need people to get involved with the ones that already exist.
Here's how to join, and who to join at the national and local level, in this order:
1. The NRA or other similarly powerful organization to protect your gun rights. Lord knows the anti's are going to be pushing some seriously crappy laws.
2. SCI to protect your hunting rights. They are the 800 lb. gorilla in this space, are literally right across the street from the Hart Senate building in D.C. (donated by a generous benefactor) and have one of the largest PAC's in D.C. (and that's saying something!)
3. The conservation "critter club" that you have a particular affinity for...RMEF, MDF, WSF, DU, RMGA, etc., etc., etc. They do great work and need your help.
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Post by: Bushcraft on January 07, 2021, 10:00:55 PM
Exactly. The last thing we need is another .org.I would substitute any local organization for #3. Washington Waterfowl association, Archery Assocation, a local sportsmens club like Tacoma Sportmen, Wildlife Committee of Washington or.... Conservation groups pretend to care about hunters and juice you. I would buy 2 memberships or up the comittment level to SCI (im not a member) before I would give my money to the likes of DU RMEF or other "conservation" orgs that will do nothing for the bare knuckle street fight we are about to enter. We need as manny scrappy fighters as possible. FYI while Im not a member of SCI I am a member of many others.
We need people to get involved with the ones that already exist.
Here's how to join, and who to join at the national and local level, in this order:
1. The NRA or other similarly powerful organization to protect your gun rights. Lord knows the anti's are going to be pushing some seriously crappy laws.
2. SCI to protect your hunting rights. They are the 800 lb. gorilla in this space, are literally right across the street from the Hart Senate building in D.C. (donated by a generous benefactor) and have one of the largest PAC's in D.C. (and that's saying something!)
3. The conservation "critter club" that you have a particular affinity for...RMEF, MDF, WSF, DU, RMGA, etc., etc., etc. They do great work and need your help.
The gist of my post was that there should be a hierarchy of importance in the order of one's memberships and affiliations. Joining at the 501(c)3 level is great, and everyone should, but they are more or less prohibited from engaging in the heavy lifting that PACs and 501(c)4's can legally do. Too many people simply engage at #3 (great marketing) and don't realize that their .orgs are not (and can't legally be), the "scrappy political fighters" they hoped were looking out for all their best interests as hunters.
Anyway, no offense to you or any of the .orgs you mentioned, but the names I mentioned were those that readily came to mind that are probably most familiar within that particular category of membership. So, by all means, make that third category whomever you choose at the local level if they cater to your particular interests, but don't neglect the first two.
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2021, 10:56:23 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 08, 2021, 12:58:18 AM
In his or her off time they could organize.
Post by: Special T on January 08, 2021, 01:17:24 AM
Do you think if HHC came up with a price tag to hire a full time lobbyist the money could be raised? Maybe a dedicated fund to support a lobbyist.I think you would need a part time salesman to come up with the cheddar... and sadly sportsmen will spend money on gear butnotherwise are cheap skates at protecting the heritage.
In his or her off time they could organize.
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Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 09:07:14 AM
Do you think if HHC came up with a price tag to hire a full time lobbyist the money could be raised? Maybe a dedicated fund to support a lobbyist.
In his or her off time they could organize.
We already have one. Well, two actually.
What I was referring to was a full time administrative staff to organize and manage the efforts and interests of sportsmen.
I imagine the annual cost for salary, benefits, etc., for one full-time person would be in the 50-75K depending on experience, and then throw a boat load of travel and lodging expenses on top of that.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 08, 2021, 10:26:10 AM
I just saw this posted up on FB And thought it was pretty good on this subject.This does make a reasonable case, but I'm not sure its enough to sink either nomination.
Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation
·
We need your help NOW! We need to stop Governor Inslee’s two new appointments to the Fish and Wildlife Commission that may be in violation of RCW 77.04.040. This RCW says that the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists, yet the hunting community was NOT communicated with on these appointments. Contact the following members of the Senate Natural Resources Committee and Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig to retain balance on YOUR Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig
https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/memberEmail/3/0
Senate Natural Resources Committee
https://leg.wa.gov/.../Commi.../AWNP/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx
The Democrats in the Senate will not be swayed by the argument that these two are animal-rights extremists. They dont give a damn about that, in fact, most Democrats feel the same way and Koontz and Smith do. Our best arguments lie in the RCW.
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
1. When Bob Kehoe was removed from the Commission, he was not replaced with a person from the commercial fishing industry, now they have no presentation on the Commission in violation of 77.04.040.
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
3. By appointing two more animal-rights/environmental minded Commissioners it throws the Commission out of balance in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
4. RCW 77.04.040 was put in place to keep balance on the Commission, so all Washingtonians have a fair shot at enjoying the outdoors.
The Commission is the citizens’ representation on wildlife management, please help us restore fair citizens’’ representation on the Commission.
One thought I had - have any folks with connections to Tribes sought out their input on these nominees? A commission dedicated to protecting predators at all cost could have negative ramifications for treaty tribal harvest of elk and deer...and Tribes have a fair bit of political pull in the Washington Democratic party...
Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 10:30:39 AM
I just saw this posted up on FB And thought it was pretty good on this subject.This does make a reasonable case, but I'm not sure its enough to sink either nomination.
Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation
·
We need your help NOW! We need to stop Governor Inslee’s two new appointments to the Fish and Wildlife Commission that may be in violation of RCW 77.04.040. This RCW says that the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists, yet the hunting community was NOT communicated with on these appointments. Contact the following members of the Senate Natural Resources Committee and Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig to retain balance on YOUR Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Senate Majority Leader Andy Billig
https://app.leg.wa.gov/pbc/memberEmail/3/0
Senate Natural Resources Committee
https://leg.wa.gov/.../Commi.../AWNP/Pages/MembersStaff.aspx
The Democrats in the Senate will not be swayed by the argument that these two are animal-rights extremists. They dont give a damn about that, in fact, most Democrats feel the same way and Koontz and Smith do. Our best arguments lie in the RCW.
RCW 77.04.040
Commission—Qualifications of members.
Persons eligible for appointment as members of the commission shall have general knowledge of the habits and distribution of fish and wildlife and shall not hold another state, county, or municipal elective or appointive office. In making these appointments, the governor shall seek to maintain a balance reflecting all aspects of fish and wildlife, including representation recommended by organized groups representing sportfishers, commercial fishers, hunters, private landowners, and environmentalists. Persons eligible for appointment as fish and wildlife commissioners shall comply with the provisions of chapters 42.52 and * 42.17 RCW.
1. When Bob Kehoe was removed from the Commission, he was not replaced with a person from the commercial fishing industry, now they have no presentation on the Commission in violation of 77.04.040.
2. The hunting community, recreational fishing community, and commercial fishing community was sought out for our recommendation on these to appointments in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
3. By appointing two more animal-rights/environmental minded Commissioners it throws the Commission out of balance in violation of RCW 77.04.040.
4. RCW 77.04.040 was put in place to keep balance on the Commission, so all Washingtonians have a fair shot at enjoying the outdoors.
The Commission is the citizens’ representation on wildlife management, please help us restore fair citizens’’ representation on the Commission.
One thought I had - have any folks with connections to Tribes sought out their input on these nominees? A commission dedicated to protecting predators at all cost could have negative ramifications for treaty tribal harvest of elk and deer...and Tribes have a fair bit of political pull in the Washington Democratic party...
Answer: Yes.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 08, 2021, 10:42:15 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 12:14:13 PM
And????
I can't, and therefore won't, speak for the tribes. Not my place to do so. If they want to speak out publicly about their stance on the matter, that's their prerogative.
That said, it's my understanding that they strongly prefer to be at the table, not on it. ;)
Post by: Tinmaniac on January 08, 2021, 01:49:53 PM
Post by: Special T on January 08, 2021, 01:54:37 PM
We may actually get more opportunity.In case no one here has been paying attention the conservative agenda of hate isn't going so well.To anyone asking about tribes,they are Federal and you live in a state,wake up.Take a look at Bidens Cabinet,guess who made that possible.Deploribles,you served up your own heads on a silver platter.Liberal America thanks you.
I'm sorry those dots are spaced to far apart for me to connect... what does that have to do with Tribes and comissioners?
Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 02:09:50 PM
We may actually get more opportunity.In case no one here has been paying attention the conservative agenda of hate isn't going so well.To anyone asking about tribes,they are Federal and you live in a state,wake up.Take a look at Bidens Cabinet,guess who made that possible.Deploribles,you served up your own heads on a silver platter.Liberal America thanks you.
And just like that we have a winner for today's most unhinged comment on the forums!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 08, 2021, 03:45:13 PM
We may actually get more opportunity.In case no one here has been paying attention the conservative agenda of hate isn't going so well.To anyone asking about tribes,they are Federal and you live in a state,wake up.Take a look at Bidens Cabinet,guess who made that possible.Deploribles,you served up your own heads on a silver platter.Liberal America thanks you.
And just like that we have a winner for today's most unhinged comment on the forums!
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
He appears to be part of the new, kinder, unifying left. Now we'll have 4 years of peace and harmony because of fine citizens like him. :brew:
Post by: Southpole on January 08, 2021, 04:28:50 PM
We may actually get more opportunity.In case no one here has been paying attention the conservative agenda of hate isn't going so well.To anyone asking about tribes,they are Federal and you live in a state,wake up.Take a look at Bidens Cabinet,guess who made that possible.Deploribles,you served up your own heads on a silver platter.Liberal America thanks you.Lorna is this you?
Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 04:46:59 PM
We may actually get more opportunity.In case no one here has been paying attention the conservative agenda of hate isn't going so well.To anyone asking about tribes,they are Federal and you live in a state,wake up.Take a look at Bidens Cabinet,guess who made that possible.Deploribles,you served up your own heads on a silver platter.Liberal America thanks you.Lorna is this you?
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
:tup:
Post by: Jake Dogfish on January 08, 2021, 05:18:10 PM
Three of Inslees appointees Thornburn, Anderson, Linville, all voted for more gillnets and less recreational share of Salmon. Several petitions have come and they don’t even consider them. The only people they listen to are the special interests groups that testify at the meetings. They have no other connection to the public, the entire process is broken!
Now these new commissioners do not sound good to me. As a environmentalist fundamentalist, I’m highly critical of groups that only support cute and cuddly critters. Meanwhile other animals are going extinct and no one cares! I didn’t even know Lorna Smith’s group WWO existed! This is the type of fake environmentalism I have been fighting all along. You cannot support apex predators without fixing the bottom of the food chain! What are these animals supposed to eat? Seals, Sea Lions Orcas are being Starved to death! Where is PETA on this issue? :bash:
No more predators without more prey! It’s really simple.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 08, 2021, 05:29:40 PM
As a environmentalist fundamentalist, I’m highly critical of groups that only support cute and cuddly critters. Meanwhile other animals are going extinct and no one cares! I didn’t even know Lorna Smith’s group WWO existed! This is the type of fake environmentalism I have been fighting all along. You cannot support apex predators without fixing the bottom of the food chain! What are these animals supposed to eat? Seals, Sea Lions Orcas are being Starved to death! Where is PETA on this issue? :bash:I think a lot of these groups are just cushy fundraising jobs. Some of the fish groups that are non-profits are heavy on staff with surprisingly high salaries---donations, grants and lawsuits.
No more predators without more prey! It’s really simple.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 06:19:37 PM
As a environmentalist fundamentalist, I’m highly critical of groups that only support cute and cuddly critters. Meanwhile other animals are going extinct and no one cares! I didn’t even know Lorna Smith’s group WWO existed! This is the type of fake environmentalism I have been fighting all along. You cannot support apex predators without fixing the bottom of the food chain! What are these animals supposed to eat? Seals, Sea Lions Orcas are being Starved to death! Where is PETA on this issue? :bash:I think a lot of these groups are just cushy fundraising jobs. Some of the fish groups that are non-profits are heavy on staff with surprisingly high salaries---donations, grants and lawsuits.
No more predators without more prey! It’s really simple.
Enviro-whacko lawsuits...that's how they "earn" their keep. Hopefully our side will eventually wake up to this sad reality.
Post by: follow maggie on January 08, 2021, 09:08:15 PM
Post by: Nwgunner on January 08, 2021, 09:15:20 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 08, 2021, 10:52:10 PM
SCI just earned themselves a long overdue new member. Thanks for your efforts.
Thank you. Thank you for helping making us stronger for you and other hunters Nwgunner.
Sincerely....At this hour in our nation's history, you've no idea how much your words and actions mean to a fellow member and volunteer that's been fighting tooth and nail for years in the mucky trenches against the tyrannical anti-hunting and anti-gun enemies in WA and beyond.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 09, 2021, 06:03:09 AM
They do earn their keep with lawsuits. On the federal level, unless the law changed, which I don’t think it did, but I can be wrong, when one of these organizations Sue’s the feds for an environmental thing, he federal government pays them for all heir costs regardless of who wins.I didn't think it was Reguardless of who wins. I thought they only paid the environs lawyer fees if they won their case.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 09, 2021, 06:20:56 AM
Post by: KNOPHISH on January 09, 2021, 08:14:08 AM
Post by: idahohuntr on January 09, 2021, 09:31:38 AM
Equal Access to Justice Act. Yes, doesn't matter who wins, as long as there is enough merit to the suit (i.e., its not completely frivolous) they can collect fees regardless of whether the US ultimately prevails.They do earn their keep with lawsuits. On the federal level, unless the law changed, which I don’t think it did, but I can be wrong, when one of these organizations Sue’s the feds for an environmental thing, he federal government pays them for all heir costs regardless of who wins.I didn't think it was Reguardless of who wins. I thought they only paid the environs lawyer fees if they won their case.
Post by: RB on January 09, 2021, 10:06:05 AM
Post by: fireweed on January 09, 2021, 10:17:02 AM
Post by: cougforester on January 09, 2021, 11:38:43 AM
Can anyone list the current FW commissioners and their primary area of interest or qualifications? Who currently represents hunters and was put there to represent them? Can we prove there is no balance of views with these two new people, and thus a violation of the RCW?
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/members
I read through it a couple days ago and only remembered seeing one person who stated they hunt. Lots of hiking listed though....
Post by: follow maggie on January 09, 2021, 12:56:05 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 09, 2021, 03:51:09 PM
I also just joined SCI and the Puget Sound Chapter.
Another reason I like this site, signed up with SCI this week as well did not know they did so much, thanks for the updates and info!
I didn’t know about SCI, either, I thought they just did safari stuff. I’ll be joining next week.
Awesome. Thank you!
Post by: cougforester on January 10, 2021, 07:19:18 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 10, 2021, 07:33:48 AM
Post by: fireweed on January 10, 2021, 09:49:35 AM
Post by: bigtex on January 10, 2021, 12:03:29 PM
Same here and we probably won't hear much until things settle in D.C.Why?
It has nothing to do with DC. These people serve in Olympia.
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Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on January 10, 2021, 01:46:04 PM
Anyone heard anything from legislators? I’ve sent three emails to Senator Billig, who is actually my senator, and it’s been crickets.
I wrote to Van De Wege and requested an answer back. Have received nothing so far.
Post by: Lucky1 on January 10, 2021, 02:04:42 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 10, 2021, 07:53:07 PM
Hunting groups worried sport is ‘under attack’ in Washington state
Jan. 10, 2021 at 9:00 am Updated Jan. 10, 2021 at 6:43 pm
By Eli Francovich
The Spokesman-Review
Hunting is under attack in Washington — at least that’s the assessment of Kim Thorburn, a Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) commissioner from Spokane.
Stricter regulations passed in recent years, a new lawsuit and the appointment of two fish and wildlife commissioners has hunters and the lobbyists who advocate for looser hunting restrictions up in arms.
“I’m pretty upset about what’s going on,” she said. “We’re looking at hunters as an enemy.”
Thorburn points to a recently filed lawsuit looking to outlaw spring bear hunting and last year’s ban on coyote-killing contests. In 2019, the WDFW ended a popular antlerless deer hunt in Eastern Washington.
“They just come one item at a time,” she said.
Meanwhile, the appointment of two new wildlife commissioners by Gov. Jay Inslee has drawn criticism and concern from hunters and hunting groups. Some environmental organizations praised the appointments. The commissioners both have backgrounds in wildlife conservation and advocacy.
They reject the assertion that they plan to attack hunting as a sport.
“I’m very excited with the direction Gov. Inslee has taken with the most recent appointments to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission,” said Sophia Ressler, Washington wildlife advocate and staff attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity in a news release.
The two new commissioners are King County resident Fred Koontz and Jefferson County resident Lorna Smith. A third Eastern Washington commission seat formerly held by David Graybill, of Chelan County, will be filled in the near future.
The commission is a nine-person citizen panel appointed by the governor to set policy for the WDFW. Both new members’ terms run until Dec. 31, 2026.
Smith, one of the new commissioners, is aware of these concerns but assures hunters she’s not out to get them.
“I would like to calm those fears of the hunting community,” Smith said. “I’m not coming in to abolish this sport.”
Smith, a fifth-generation Washingtonian who comes from a family of lighthouse keepers on Discovery Bay, grew up hunting and fishing, although she doesn’t do either now.
Before joining the commission, she was the executive director for the nonprofit Western Wildlife Outreach and was Snohomish County’s lead environmental supervisor from 1986-2007.
While she supports hunting, she believes the commission needs to start making policy decisions “grounded in sound science,” even if that means getting rid of some hunting opportunities.
In particular, she points to cougar hunting in Washington.
In April, the commission approved more liberal cougar-hunting rules. Some research indicates cougar hunting leads to greater dispersal of young males and possibly more human-cougar conflict. Not all biologist agree with this assessment.
Smith believes the WDFW has been “too dismissive” of that research.
“I would personally like to see more emphasis on science being brought before the commission as they are making their decision, rather than it having it all digested down into a few sentences,” she said. “I’ll do my research. I’m not going to just rely on what’s brought to the table by the department.”
Mark Pidgeon, the president of the Hunters Heritage Council, said his group wasn’t contacted before the appointment of the two new commissioners and worries the commission, which traditionally has representatives from a variety of industries and cultures, is no longer balanced.
Marie Neumiller, the Inland Northwest Wildlife Council’s executive director believes hunters — a diverse catchall spanning the gamut from family deer hunts, trappers, hound hunters and more — are poorly understood and drowned out by more powerful and vocal groups.
“I feel like hunters are portrayed in the media in a way that doesn’t actually represent who we are,” she said.
Meanwhile, hunting, in Washington and nationwide, is in decline.
Only 5% of Americans 16 years and older hunt, according to a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service study published in 2017. Fifty years ago, 10% of Americans 16 years and older hunted.
In Washington, there was an 11% drop in state hunting-license holders between 2008 and 2018. Youth-hunting participation was down 22% during the same period. Between 2019 and 2012, the number of hunters dropped by nearly 5%.
Post by: madcow41 on January 10, 2021, 08:15:06 PM
I reviewed their bios and it sure doesn't look like there are any "citizens" on the "citizen commission". These folks are all retired officials of some sort...no typical citizen among them. Looks like two might hunt.
Do you want people with Experience working in public capacity for something like this. Gone are the days of Joe civilian taking a job on a natural resource panel because he’s passionate about hunting. Honestly if they did that, then that person would be so lost in the sauce they wouldn’t be affective or whatever they did would fail.
Solution be in if you don’t like Commission members, then vote for the person who will appoint who you want.
Post by: Special T on January 10, 2021, 10:32:42 PM
Van De Weg has been an HSUS senator of the year several times. We might be able to turn one of the others, but turning him would be a miracle...Anyone heard anything from legislators? I’ve sent three emails to Senator Billig, who is actually my senator, and it’s been crickets.
I wrote to Van De Wege and requested an answer back. Have received nothing so far.
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Post by: fireweed on January 11, 2021, 08:33:52 AM
Your solution is to vote in a republican governor in liberal Washington? The Commission is set up knowing that is unlikely, and it is designed to guarantee diverse opinions and a broad view across the state.I reviewed their bios and it sure doesn't look like there are any "citizens" on the "citizen commission". These folks are all retired officials of some sort...no typical citizen among them. Looks like two might hunt.
Do you want people with Experience working in public capacity for something like this. Gone are the days of Joe civilian taking a job on a natural resource panel because he’s passionate about hunting. Honestly if they did that, then that person would be so lost in the sauce they wouldn’t be affective or whatever they did would fail.
Solution be in if you don’t like Commission members, then vote for the person who will appoint who you want.
What you describe is an "expert panel", not a citizen panel. Here, the WDFW scientists are supposed to be the experts, and the commission is BY LAW supposed to be a panel of informed, but "regular Joe" citizens.
That is what the RCW says. I've been on several of these type of groups with the county/state and they seem to try to have at least ONE regular citizen, who isn't hog-tied to one group, but represents the general community--the average concerned citizen.
Post by: buckfvr on January 11, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
Solution be in if you don’t like Commission members, then vote for the person who will appoint who you want.
[/quote]
Ya for sure, because theres so much evidence that shows voting works....... :bash:
Post by: KFhunter on January 11, 2021, 10:15:17 AM
Post by: ne kid on January 11, 2021, 10:17:25 AM
Post by: buckfvr on January 11, 2021, 10:28:44 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 11, 2021, 10:31:27 AM
Post by: jeffitz on January 11, 2021, 10:43:04 AM
Back to the OP. Who all sent out emails to their Legislators?
I did. I signed up with SCI(quick and easy) and sent the emails last week.
I told all my friends about it and hope they did the same
Post by: Southpole on January 11, 2021, 10:52:50 AM
Back to the OP. Who all sent out emails to their Legislators?I did.
Post by: CementFinisher on January 11, 2021, 11:14:32 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 11, 2021, 11:18:07 AM
Back to the OP. Who all sent out emails to their Legislators?
I did. I signed up with SCI(quick and easy) and sent the emails last week.
I told all my friends about it and hope they did the same
Awesome...Thank you! If you're interested in getting involved with a local chapter, let me know.
Post by: wags on January 11, 2021, 10:03:20 PM
Make WDFW self funded.It is essentially self funded.
If all you guys would stop buying every license, tag, drawing application, and every other revenue generating scheme they come up with the Department would finally go broke. Of course it would them become a free-for-all in the woods. Any self respecting enforcement agent would move on to another agency or move out of state. I don't really see how there could be any decent ones left right now anyway.
Just say no to WDFW.
Post by: bigtex on January 11, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Sorry but this simply isn't true. License fees only make up about 25-30% of WDFW's budget. The rest comes from state taxes, federal funds, and outside entities.Make WDFW self funded.It is essentially self funded.
If all you guys would stop buying every license, tag, drawing application, and every other revenue generating scheme they come up with the Department would finally go broke. Of course it would them become a free-for-all in the woods. Any self respecting enforcement agent would move on to another agency or move out of state. I don't really see how there could be any decent ones left right now anyway.
Just say no to WDFW.
Post by: Special T on January 11, 2021, 10:30:36 PM
And yet very few people including your statement include the Federal P&R funds as being attached to hunters... when license sales numbers us attached to them and the gets us to just under 50% I belive it was 48% or so...Sorry but this simply isn't true. License fees only make up about 25-30% of WDFW's budget. The rest comes from state taxes, federal funds, and outside entities.Make WDFW self funded.It is essentially self funded.
If all you guys would stop buying every license, tag, drawing application, and every other revenue generating scheme they come up with the Department would finally go broke. Of course it would them become a free-for-all in the woods. Any self respecting enforcement agent would move on to another agency or move out of state. I don't really see how there could be any decent ones left right now anyway.
Just say no to WDFW.
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Post by: bigtex on January 11, 2021, 10:49:08 PM
Sorry but those numbers are incorrectAnd yet very few people including your statement include the Federal P&R funds as being attached to hunters... when license sales numbers us attached to them and the gets us to just under 50% I belive it was 48% or so...Sorry but this simply isn't true. License fees only make up about 25-30% of WDFW's budget. The rest comes from state taxes, federal funds, and outside entities.Make WDFW self funded.It is essentially self funded.
If all you guys would stop buying every license, tag, drawing application, and every other revenue generating scheme they come up with the Department would finally go broke. Of course it would them become a free-for-all in the woods. Any self respecting enforcement agent would move on to another agency or move out of state. I don't really see how there could be any decent ones left right now anyway.
Just say no to WDFW.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
WDFW gets about $24 million in PR funds, out of a $437 million budget, or roughly 5% of the total budget comes from PR.
WDFW gets bout $14 million in Dingell Johnson funds (basically PR on the fishing side), for a little over 3% of WDFWs total budget.
If you add license sales, PR, and DJ together you're still not hitting 40% coming from hunters/anglers in license fees or equipment taxes.
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Post by: Bushcraft on January 11, 2021, 11:47:57 PM
First, the "only" aspect ticks me off. When they and Fred Koontz used this insultingly minimizing rational during numerous WDAC and BPAG meetings to push the notion time and time again that sportsmen represent "only" a small portion of the state's population and the Dept.'s revenue, and therefore shouldn't really be driving the Dept.'s budgets and policies, my rebuttal then, as it is now, is that if the birds and butterfly crowd don't pay a <bleeping> dime directly into the system in terms of licenses, permits, tags, raffles, etc., ....what in the <bleep> makes them think they should have a seat at the table at all? Of course, they would get uncomfortable being confronted with some basic math and either abruptly change topics in the interest of time or to protect the delicate sensibilities of the enviro-whackos in the room that were busy wailing and fainting on couches. And/or they would point to the results of their patently absurd survey that wildly skews the number of people that claim they like watching watching some tweety birds out their kitchen windows when they wash dishes....BOOM!...What do you know?...there's 5 million people in Washington that are non-consumptive wildlife watchers. Amazing! :rolleyes:
Second, I realize that while not all of the PR and DJ funds come from sportsmen, and there's really no way of knowing what the percentage is of buyers that are subject to the taxes that actually constitute the number of hunters and anglers in this state, it represents a giant boatload of money that should be given a respectable amount of consideration by the Dept. personnel...after all, some of those funds are paying their cushy salaries and assorted benefits, including guaranteed pubic union retirement.
Third, no where in their projections do they account for the private dollars that go into wildlife management every year from consumptive users that farm, ranch, private property owners, and hunting and fishing oriented non-profit groups and their individual members that pour a ton of money towards benefitting fish and wildlife every year....not to mention the compounding economy drivers. I suspect those figures would dwarf WDFW's entire annual budget, to say nothing of what the very small minority of truly dedicated bird and butterfly watchers contribute.
Fourth, a portion of the general fund basket also comes from...ding, ding, ding...hunters and anglers! Many of whom buy very expensive vehicles, trailers, etc., and incredibly expensive boats (think: sales tax).
So no, sportsmen do NOT only represent 25-30% that. That is a *censored* number being used by the non-consumptive crowd (and WDFW leadership that always wants more money) to drive budgets and policies that I would argue are not directly beneficial to their core priority stakeholders in the hunting and fishing communities.
The fact of the matter is that the so-called non-consumptive users barely pay jack squat into the system (compared to hunters and angers) but their outsized influence on the Dept. is because they are very organized, are very well funded, staffed with some full-time employees, are very vocal, and very involved.
In as much as I believe they barely deserve a single seat on the Commission, they are damned motivated to take it over and drive budget and policy decisions to suit their non-consumptive fancies. Behind closed doors they don't give a damn about consumptive users.
Another point to remember...the Commission hires and fires the Director.
If you thought Unsworth and the cadre of WDFW Inslee loving personnel that steamrolled him was one of the most devastatingly worthless Directors in WDFW history for hunters and anglers and fish and wildlife, then you'll have another thing coming if this monstrously gross imbalance of far-left non-consumptive birds and butterfly appointees is allowed to happen.
Don't get me wrong, there are some very good, very committed people working for WDFW that revere our hunting and fishing heritage and would love nothing more than to see it grow and prosper (and we should rally around them whenever possible)...but there are others within that hold a very, very dim view of consumptive users.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 12, 2021, 05:42:31 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 12, 2021, 08:14:28 AM
One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?
Truth!!!
Post by: buckfvr on January 12, 2021, 09:16:49 AM
One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?
Truth!!!
:yeah:
Theyre all too comfortable to openly complain. :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on January 12, 2021, 12:49:33 PM
One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?Sadly that's the norm across all levels of government (city, county, state, and federal.) It's a "sit down & shut up", don't speak out mindset. Because if you do speak out guess what, you can kiss that promotion/transfer you wanted goodbye. I can name dozens of people with all sorts of agencies who have been blacklisted from promotions/transfers because they spoke out and went against higher ups.
Post by: Bob33 on January 12, 2021, 01:01:25 PM
That's true in most organizations, not just government. Try telling your manager in a private industry that he's making stupid decisions and see how it turns out. ;)One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?Sadly that's the norm across all levels of government (city, county, state, and federal.) It's a "sit down & shut up", don't speak out mindset. Because if you do speak out guess what, you can kiss that promotion/transfer you wanted goodbye. I can name dozens of people with all sorts of agencies who have been blacklisted from promotions/transfers because they spoke out and went against higher ups.
Post by: bigtex on January 12, 2021, 01:04:23 PM
Exactly!That's true in most organizations, not just government. Try telling your manager in a private industry that he's making stupid decisions and see how it turns out. ;)One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?Sadly that's the norm across all levels of government (city, county, state, and federal.) It's a "sit down & shut up", don't speak out mindset. Because if you do speak out guess what, you can kiss that promotion/transfer you wanted goodbye. I can name dozens of people with all sorts of agencies who have been blacklisted from promotions/transfers because they spoke out and went against higher ups.
Post by: Bushcraft on January 12, 2021, 01:08:13 PM
One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?Sadly that's the norm across all levels of government (city, county, state, and federal.) It's a "sit down & shut up", don't speak out mindset. Because if you do speak out guess what, you can kiss that promotion/transfer you wanted goodbye. I can name dozens of people with all sorts of agencies who have been blacklisted from promotions/transfers because they spoke out and went against higher ups.
The Private Sector isn't immune from that either.
But, unlike the Public Sector with its patently absurd unions (which should be illegal for the most part IMHO), Private Sector businesses need to be very pro-customer and proactively advance great employees (or they will go elsewhere) while carefully tending to their bottom line if they are going to be competitive and thrive.
Sadly, public sector agencies and their personnel are largely unaccountable to their customers (citizens). Worse, some of them know it.
Post by: buckfvr on January 12, 2021, 01:16:07 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 12, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
With that being said there are certain large companies and I will use BNSF for example that after your 3 or 6 month trial period it takes an act of god to fire you even if you were lazier than a cut hog. But you do something unethical or critical then its probation or fired. :dunno:Exactly!That's true in most organizations, not just government. Try telling your manager in a private industry that he's making stupid decisions and see how it turns out. ;)One thing to remember that we have heard from the Biologists, Wardens, etc. time and time again both working and retired is that they are afraid to speak up against WDFW policies for fear of losing their jobs and retirement. Now what kind of a organization is that to work for?Sadly that's the norm across all levels of government (city, county, state, and federal.) It's a "sit down & shut up", don't speak out mindset. Because if you do speak out guess what, you can kiss that promotion/transfer you wanted goodbye. I can name dozens of people with all sorts of agencies who have been blacklisted from promotions/transfers because they spoke out and went against higher ups.
Post by: KFhunter on January 12, 2021, 01:27:25 PM
Seems that flopping over a few cars due to overspeed does it, 2-3 separate incidences
and digging big holes in the rails by applying too much power does it
and being an arsehat to everyone does it, especially govt inspectors, which causes more fines isn't career enhancing
So ya, I know 4 railroad guys fired just off the top of my head
Post by: wags on January 12, 2021, 01:37:52 PM
That is partially true. However, those Federal funds are Pittman Robertson funds. Those are a 3:1 match of Federal funds for every dollar the State takes in from license and tags sales. So if you buy $100 worth of licenses and tags, the State gets another $300 from the Feds. Don't buy the stuff and they don't get the huge matching funds.Sorry but this simply isn't true. License fees only make up about 25-30% of WDFW's budget. The rest comes from state taxes, federal funds, and outside entities.Make WDFW self funded.It is essentially self funded.
If all you guys would stop buying every license, tag, drawing application, and every other revenue generating scheme they come up with the Department would finally go broke. Of course it would them become a free-for-all in the woods. Any self respecting enforcement agent would move on to another agency or move out of state. I don't really see how there could be any decent ones left right now anyway.
Just say no to WDFW.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 12, 2021, 01:57:57 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on January 12, 2021, 06:24:58 PM
Anyhow I digress back to Inslee's appointees and if there is a chance of reversal. If you read that article stating how some of the other commissions felt that the sportsmen were getting the short end of the stick then in their discussions its probably happening. when we have people like that saying yea or nay on our wildlife decisions it surely a no win and reorganization might be called for.
Thank you.
The more of a resolute stink that can be generated by the hunting and angling community (and others ;) ), the better our chances of getting a "not recommend" for each of them at the Committee level. Failing that, more pressure will need to be applied to more legislators to the extent possible during this bizarre leg session.
The article was WAY too soft on Zookeeper Koontz. Having witnessed firsthand how he operates with staff, he's far, far more dangerous than Smith IMHO. I hold him somewhat accountable for the extirpation of the last remaining Woodland Caribou in Washington since he deemed them less worthy of protecting than [non-endangered] wolves and other predators like lions and bears.
Post by: cougforester on January 12, 2021, 07:21:36 PM
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2021, 07:29:17 PM
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/10/new-commissioners-and-lawsuits-have-some-saying-hu/?fbclid=IwAR1kep-Y0AiqqJCvILSqVACmejSEMJtoMJAiD-DT2h7O7Ficf7oYhVfrGj4
Post by: KFhunter on January 12, 2021, 08:05:21 PM
A little sharper opinion on the issue.She cites that disavowed Wielgus study on large carnivores, WSU fired that turd and issued a public letter saying his work was biased and untrue.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/10/new-commissioners-and-lawsuits-have-some-saying-hu/?fbclid=IwAR1kep-Y0AiqqJCvILSqVACmejSEMJtoMJAiD-DT2h7O7Ficf7oYhVfrGj4
Yet, she picks it up anyways. She certainly didn't say she'd improve hunting or fishing did she? No.
And Spoksman review left Wielgus out, even though they did an article on Wielgus' controversy some years ago.
Not good.
Post by: Special T on January 12, 2021, 08:18:12 PM
A little sharper opinion on the issue.She cites that disavowed Wielgus study on large carnivores, WSU fired that turd and issued a public letter saying his work was biased and untrue.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/10/new-commissioners-and-lawsuits-have-some-saying-hu/?fbclid=IwAR1kep-Y0AiqqJCvILSqVACmejSEMJtoMJAiD-DT2h7O7Ficf7oYhVfrGj4
Yet, she picks it up anyways. She certainly didn't say she'd improve hunting or fishing did she? No.
And Spoksman review left Wielgus out, even though they did an article on Wielgus' controversy some years ago.
Not good.
Yes but she hangs herself in the comments
Post by: cooltimber on January 12, 2021, 08:32:24 PM
New commissioners and lawsuits have some saying hunting is under attack in Washington
Sun., Jan. 10, 2021
Mark McLean hikes through Rustler’s Gulch, public land north of Spokane, while hunting on Oct. 21, 2018. (Eli Francovich)
Mark McLean hikes through Rustler’s Gulch, public land north of Spokane, while hunting on Oct. 21, 2018. (Eli Francovich)
By Eli Francovich
elif@spokesman.com
(509) 459-5508
Hunting is under attack in Washington.
At least that’s the assessment of Kim Thorburn, a Washington Department of Fish and Game commissioner from Spokane.
“I’m pretty upset about what’s going on,” she said. “We’re looking at hunters as an enemy.”
Although she believes the assault has been brewing for a long time, Thorburn points to a recently filed lawsuit looking to outlaw spring bear hunting and last year’s ban on coyote killing contests.
“They just come one item at a time,” she said.
Meanwhile, the appointment of two new WDFW commissioners by Gov. Jay Inslee has drawn criticism and concern from hunters and hunting groups. Some environmental organizations praised the appointments. The commissioners both have backgrounds in wildlife conservation and advocacy.
“I’m very excited with the direction Gov. Inslee has taken with the most recent appointments to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission,” said Sophia Ressler, Washington wildlife advocate and staff attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity in a news release.
The direction Ressler praises is giving others pause.
Mark Pidgeon, the president of the Hunters Heritage Council, said his group wasn’t contacted prior to the appointment of the two new commissioners and worries that the commission, which traditionally has representatives from a variety of industries and cultures, is no longer balanced.
“To us, that throws the commission out of balance,” he said of the two appointments.
The two new commissioners are King County resident Fred Koontz and Jefferson County resident Lorna Smith. A third Eastern Washington commission seat formerly held by David Graybill of Chelan County will be filled in the near future.
Pidgeon and other advocates point to other instances in which hunting opportunity has been lost. In 2019, WDFW ended a popular antlerless deer hunt in Eastern Washington. Going even further back, many point to the banning of hound hunting and bear baiting in 1996 via a statewide initiative.
Marie Neumiller, the Inland Northwest Wildlife Council’s executive director, shares Pidgeon’s concerns. She’s noticed that since COVID-19 has forced commission meetings – and public comment – online, more out-of-state groups and individuals have Zoomed in to comment.
“Some of the issues at the last meeting were flooded with two hours or more of public testimony,” she said.
That isn’t to say all sides shouldn’t have a voice, she said.
But Neumiller believes hunters – a diverse catchall spanning the gamut from family deer hunts, trappers, hound hunters and more – are poorly understood and drowned out by more powerful and vocal groups.
“I feel like hunters are portrayed in the media in a way that doesn’t actually represent who we are,” she said.
‘Not coming to abolish the sport’
Smith, one of the new commissioners, is aware of these concerns but assures hunters that she’s not out to get them.
“I would like to calm those fears of the hunting community,” Smith said. “I’m not coming in to abolish this sport.”
Smith, a fifth-generation Washingtonian who comes from a family of lighthouse keepers on Discovery Bay, grew up hunting and fishing, although she doesn’t do either now.
Prior to joining the commission, she was the executive director for the nonprofit Western Wildlife Outreach and was Snohomish County’s lead environmental supervisor from 1986-2007.
While she supports hunting, she believes the commission needs to start making policy decisions that are “grounded in sound science,” even if that means getting rid of some hunting opportunities.
In particular, she points to cougar hunting in Washington.
In April, the commission approved more liberal cougar hunting rules. Some research indicates cougar hunting leads to greater dispersal of young males and possibly more human-cougar conflict. Not all biologist agree with this assessment.
Smith believes WDFW has been “too dismissive” of that research.
“I would personally like to see more emphasis on science being brought before the commission as they are making their decision, rather than it having it all digested down into a few sentences,” she said. “I’ll do my research. I’m not going to just rely on what’s brought to the table by the department.”
The commission is a nine-person citizen panel appointed by the governor to set policy for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. Both new members’ terms run until Dec. 31, 2026.
Changing times
What isn’t in dispute is the fact that hunting, in Washington and nationwide, is in decline.
Only 5% of Americans 16 years and older hunt, according to a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service study published in 2017. Fifty years ago, 10% of Americans 16 years and older hunted.
In Washington, there has been an 11% drop in state hunting license holders over between 2008 and 2018. Even more worrying for state officials, youth hunting participation is down 22% during the same period. Between 2019 and 2012, the number of hunters dropped by nearly 5%.
At the same time, attitudes about wildlife are changing as Americans live an increasingly urban life. More than 80% of Americans live in a city or suburb, according to a 2018 U.S. Census Bureau report. The century-long retreat from rural life has left formerly developed lands vacant, giving animals like deer, cougars and wolves a place to call home.
This odd situation – increased urbanization paired with growing numbers of certain highly adaptive species – is fundamentally changing how humans understand and interact with wildlife.
This is best exemplified by a 2019 study documenting a continued shift from a “traditionalist” view of wildlife, to a “mutualist” view. Traditionalists think of wildlife as resources to be used by humans, while mutualists believe animals have their own intrinsic value, separate from human utility.
“It’s a changing world,” said the study’s lead investigator, Michael Manfredo. “We’ve gone from a world where we perceived wildlife as something we had control over and should use the way we wish, to a world where we regard animals as human-like, with a certain amount of rights like humans have.”
According to the study, which was conducted by Colorado State University, “higher income, urbanization and education at the state level were associated with a higher prevalence of mutualism orientations among state residents.” In Washington, 38% of respondents were mutualists and 28% were traditionalists. Those differences aligned roughly with urban and rural areas.
The foundation of conservation
An additional concern, at least for Thorburn, is that state fish and game agencies have long depended on hunters and anglers to fund and champion conservation work.
For instance, hunting and fishing license fees and associated federal money make up more than one-third of WDFW’s annual operating budget.
While Thorburn neither hunts nor fishes, she worries if WDFW focuses too much on “urban values” it will lose its staunchest, most invested supporters.
“We manage it for all Washingtonians, not just urban Washingtonians,” she said. “I don’t think wildlife conservation and management should be by majority view on wildlife. Especially when it’s a view that really impedes conservation and management practices.”
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on January 12, 2021, 08:34:28 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,256579.msg3485746/topicseen.html#new
Post by: Stein on January 12, 2021, 09:29:50 PM
Post by: Seabass on January 13, 2021, 10:35:17 AM
Everyone is science based as long as they get to pick what science to follow.
And there are not as many absolutes in science as people want to believe.
Post by: buckfvr on January 13, 2021, 11:00:07 AM
Everyone is science based as long as they get to pick what science to follow.
And there are not as many absolutes in science as people want to believe.
:yeah: And show me a study that isnt agenda driven.
Post by: cougforester on January 13, 2021, 05:43:11 PM
Quote
Dear Eric,
Thank you for your email regarding the Governor’s appointments to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Department. I will certainly keep your comments in mind if I have an opportunity to weigh in on this appointment.
All my best,
Andy
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 14, 2021, 05:07:06 PM
Thank you for your email regarding the Governor’s appointments to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Department. I will certainly keep your comments in mind if I have an opportunity to weigh in on this appointment.
All my best,
Andy
Post by: cougforester on January 20, 2021, 02:31:24 PM
Quote
Dear Mr. Koenig-
Thank you for your email regarding the recent appointments to the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission. I do not anticipate a quick confirmation on these nominees.
As Vice-Chair of the Senate Agriculture, Water, Natural Resources and Parks Committee, I work closely with the Chair of the Committee, Senator Kevin Van De Wege. We meet regularly with the Governor and his staff on matters such as this and were surprised at the announcement of these nominees without any previous discussion. As you may be aware, I have previously expressed my concerns with actions taken by the Fish and Wildlife Commission, especially around the expansion of salmon and steelhead gillnetting. Combined with dissatisfaction at the lack of responsiveness of the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, I see an even greater need for communication and transparency, which I find lacking in this appointment process.
I will be seeking further information prior to considering any vote to confirm new commissioners to the Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Sincerely,
This seems to be a pretty damning indictment of Inslee's process (SHOCKER) that the Vice Chair of the committee responsible for confirming these appointments was not notified at all of these 2 appointments.
Post by: buckfvr on January 26, 2021, 02:08:21 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on January 29, 2021, 08:56:51 AM
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Post by: Special T on January 29, 2021, 09:19:45 AM
Any hope on this? Bringing an important topic back to the top.
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These 2 have been seated and not confirmed yet. Im really curious to hear about some of their votes. I believe they are voting on the Hound pursuit season today. To me how Koontz votes will be interesting. He claims to be a hunting supporter but he is not one nor does it appear that he is involved in a meaningful way with sportsmen... Ive heard rumors of him complaining about being labeled an Anti Hunter...
Post by: Tbar on January 29, 2021, 08:24:42 PM
He voted against adoption of the rule.Any hope on this? Bringing an important topic back to the top.
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These 2 have been seated and not confirmed yet. Im really curious to hear about some of their votes. I believe they are voting on the Hound pursuit season today. To me how Koontz votes will be interesting. He claims to be a hunting supporter but he is not one nor does it appear that he is involved in a meaningful way with sportsmen... Ive heard rumors of him complaining about being labeled an Anti Hunter...
Post by: Special T on January 29, 2021, 09:44:59 PM
Hmm guess him crying about supporting sportsmen and nit being an anti hunter has revealed where he stands!He voted against adoption of the rule.Any hope on this? Bringing an important topic back to the top.
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These 2 have been seated and not confirmed yet. Im really curious to hear about some of their votes. I believe they are voting on the Hound pursuit season today. To me how Koontz votes will be interesting. He claims to be a hunting supporter but he is not one nor does it appear that he is involved in a meaningful way with sportsmen... Ive heard rumors of him complaining about being labeled an Anti Hunter...
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Post by: dreamingbig on January 29, 2021, 10:33:20 PM
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Post by: coachteeter on January 30, 2021, 10:41:11 AM
In other words, is there still time to send out some emails and if so, what is the deadline?
Post by: Special T on January 30, 2021, 07:15:08 PM
Have these two been officially approved by the Senate yet? Do we know what date that might happen?
In other words, is there still time to send out some emails and if so, what is the deadline?
They have been seated but not yet confirmed... Ive heard some rumblings that another push to keep the from being confirmed may take place.
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Post by: Humptulips on January 30, 2021, 07:36:28 PM
Do you think a Governors own party is going to go out of their way to make Insley look bad? It ain't happening.
FYI, Van DeWege sits more on the animal rights side of the aisle so nothing good for us is going through him.
Post by: Special T on February 01, 2021, 10:26:48 PM
F&W Commissioners rarely get a confirmation hearing. They can serve on an interim basis until confirmed so without a hearing they are in for good. There would have to be a massive outcry for a hearing to get one.Van De Wege has been a HSUS Legislator of the year several times.
Do you think a Governors own party is going to go out of their way to make Insley look bad? It ain't happening.
FYI, Van DeWege sits more on the animal rights side of the aisle so nothing good for us is going through him.
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Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 02, 2021, 05:03:35 AM
Post by: cougforester on February 02, 2021, 07:08:49 AM
Post by: wags on February 02, 2021, 08:01:18 AM
Yes, there is "recourse". You are fortunate that you live in Spokane, spend you hunting dollars in Idaho, don't feed those morons in Olympia.
Post by: follow maggie on February 02, 2021, 09:02:34 AM
^^^^^
Yes, there is "recourse". You are fortunate that you live in Spokane, spend you hunting dollars in Idaho, don't feed those morons in Olympia.
:yeah:
Post by: cougforester on February 02, 2021, 11:22:42 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 02, 2021, 12:15:27 PM
Post by: Special T on February 02, 2021, 12:58:49 PM
So is there seriously no recourse?
At this point I think all that we can do is call attention to this problem with or state senator. We need to push for a conformation vote, because If they loose the vote they are done. If they never hold the vote they can sit unconfirmed. If I'm not mistaken Jay Kehne sat the whole time unconfirmed because Sen Ranker never called for a vote.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 18, 2021, 12:38:52 PM
Good afternoon and thank you for your email with concerns about these appointments to the commission. I have not seen them come up for confirmation yet, but I certainly understand your concerns. It is important to note that even without confirmation – these appointees still official voting members.
As an avid hunter and fisherman, I believe the department should be looking at ways and opportunities to increase opportunities for the sportsmen in this state as opposed to curtailing access.
Senator Keith Wagoner
39th Legislative District
Post by: hunter399 on February 18, 2021, 01:20:18 PM
The real problems have always fall within the department and what they "recommend" to the commission.
"Conservation Starts here"
But not in your wallet
Not in our game management plan :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: DishBogget on February 19, 2021, 09:23:57 AM
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