Post by: jstone on March 05, 2021, 09:14:44 AM
Would there be less hunting pressure in the last week of October? I know hunting the rut is possibly the best but more people?
Post by: TooTallMike on March 05, 2021, 09:16:37 AM
At least where we went. All public and some sign in block management places.
Post by: mburrows on March 05, 2021, 09:47:43 AM
I can count on one hand the number of people I've actually seen out away from roads 1+ mile regardless of season though over the past 4 years.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 05, 2021, 09:48:12 AM
Post by: Stein on March 05, 2021, 09:54:49 AM
It's predictable, opening weekend is crowded, Monday through Thursday are best, Friday people start to show up again and weekends are always busier. Rut week and last week of the season are busier than mid season.
MT has long seasons and that spreads people out, but the areas with good prospects and good access (or close to towns & hotels or campgrounds) will always be the busiest.
Post by: HillHound on March 05, 2021, 11:36:36 AM
Post by: 3nails on March 07, 2021, 05:25:22 PM
Post by: Tbob on March 17, 2021, 11:37:58 PM
It’s such a different experience hunting over there. I just love it !
Side note: the only guys I met out in the field my first year hunting out there was two guys from WA and happened to be members of this forum.. small world ! Haha.
Post by: Justdecent on March 18, 2021, 06:09:27 PM
Post by: MADMAX on March 18, 2021, 06:29:55 PM
Google is your friend
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on March 20, 2021, 11:08:04 AM
Anyone have any idea what the lodging situation is like if they’re already sold out? Can you just pop up a wall tent on public ground?National forest and BLM yes(for the most part), don’t know about state land in Montana
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Post by: Stein on March 20, 2021, 11:12:21 AM
Post by: Justdecent on March 20, 2021, 12:34:10 PM
Post by: go4steelhd on March 20, 2021, 12:58:58 PM
Good luck
Post by: idaho guy on March 20, 2021, 01:30:51 PM
Post by: DWBMontana on March 21, 2021, 04:22:24 PM
Post by: wooltie on March 23, 2021, 07:07:11 AM
Post by: mburrows on March 23, 2021, 07:54:16 AM
I wonder if applications for deer/elk combo will exceed the quota.It will. There will be people that dont get drawn
Post by: dvolmer on March 23, 2021, 10:19:19 AM
I wonder if applications for deer/elk combo will exceed the quota.
Last year they exceeded the quotas and all three combo licenses had a success rate of around 70-75% if I remember correctly. This year will be much lower I would imagine. I called a week ago to Helena for some questions on the landowner combo license I was applying for. The licensing agent that I spoke with told me they are completely overwhelmed and figure that this years applicant numbers will exceed last years by quite a few. She said on March 1st when everything opened up they answered 1000 phone calls that day and the average hold time was 45 min to an hour. She said that out of all the calls they receive, 90% are non-residents and they have had heavy calling everyday since the 1st. I know that hunting numbers have increased but its hard for me to figure how they have increased so much in so short of time and I am not talking about Montana only. Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, etc etc etc are all being massively swamped with massive applicant increases and I mean thousands and thousands of applicants. Ya know how all this will end?, big increases in non-resident tag and licenses costs is how it will end! So start saving your money!!!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 23, 2021, 10:53:53 AM
Post by: Igor on March 23, 2021, 11:03:39 AM
It'll end with an economy dip. The government handouts are gonna dry up. The artificial mortgage rates will eventually go up. The current state of affairs is unsustainable. LESS than a decade ago idaho was having to sharply discount tags in order to sell them and you could snag a second tag from Walmart on your way to the mountains the last week of the season. A decade before that when you couldn't buy online, you better be on your game or those deer and elk tags were gone in a hot minute. We are often times very short sighted when it comes to ebs and flows of draws and tags and their correlation to the economy.
Curiosity question........what are "artificial mortgage rates" ?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 23, 2021, 11:16:15 AM
Post by: Igor on March 23, 2021, 11:20:49 AM
The low low low interest rates we have now. They aren't gonna be around for much longer.
That doesn't explain the "artificial" part...............
Post by: grundy53 on March 23, 2021, 11:28:05 AM
It'll end with an economy dip. The government handouts are gonna dry up. The artificial mortgage rates will eventually go up. The current state of affairs is unsustainable. LESS than a decade ago idaho was having to sharply discount tags in order to sell them and you could snag a second tag from Walmart on your way to the mountains the last week of the season. A decade before that when you couldn't buy online, you better be on your game or those deer and elk tags were gone in a hot minute. We are often times very short sighted when it comes to ebs and flows of draws and tags and their correlation to the economy.100%
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Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 23, 2021, 11:30:53 AM
Post by: Igor on March 23, 2021, 11:36:42 AM
You have a point to this? If you've got something to say then say it. Is artifical not an acceptable term to describe the fed keeping the interest rates low despite an absolutely insane housing market and strong economy?
Relax Karl. You made a statement I did not understand, and was just trying to understand it. If you don't want to explain it, I really don't give a rats patoot.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on March 23, 2021, 11:57:03 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 23, 2021, 11:58:17 AM
Post by: Igor on March 23, 2021, 12:01:44 PM
I'm plenty relaxed but your open ended comments made it seem like you were getting ready to educate me on interest rates or something. Is artificial not the correct term :dunno:
That was not my intent. I merely asked a question because I didn't understand the term. You want a discussion, I don't. I'm sorry I derailed the thread. Maybe some other time...............
Post by: idahohuntr on March 23, 2021, 12:15:58 PM
It'll end with an economy dip. The government handouts are gonna dry up. The artificial mortgage rates will eventually go up. The current state of affairs is unsustainable. LESS than a decade ago idaho was having to sharply discount tags in order to sell them and you could snag a second tag from Walmart on your way to the mountains the last week of the season. A decade before that when you couldn't buy online, you better be on your game or those deer and elk tags were gone in a hot minute. We are often times very short sighted when it comes to ebs and flows of draws and tags and their correlation to the economy.I generally agree - an economic downturn or recession will reduce NR demand in a given year. NR hunting is discretionary spending, so significant declines in the economy likely hit the discretionary stuff hardest. However, I also think there are foundational differences between today and previous economic downturns (e.g., 2008-09). Today, the interest, knowledge, and resources for western state hunting and applications is enormous and it has attracted massive attention and made the barriers to entry extremely low. Furthermore, non-resident hunting continues to be an activity that trends towards those with a solid financial position in life...folks less likely to be significantly affected by economic downturns. It won't always be a straight upward trend of increasing demand for western tags, but it also won't be a return to the days where a recession drops demand by a massive amount.
Post by: dilleytech on March 23, 2021, 12:46:07 PM
It'll end with an economy dip. The government handouts are gonna dry up. The artificial mortgage rates will eventually go up. The current state of affairs is unsustainable. LESS than a decade ago idaho was having to sharply discount tags in order to sell them and you could snag a second tag from Walmart on your way to the mountains the last week of the season. A decade before that when you couldn't buy online, you better be on your game or those deer and elk tags were gone in a hot minute. We are often times very short sighted when it comes to ebs and flows of draws and tags and their correlation to the economy.
I agree. I think most people. Specially those who go out of state to hunt aren’t all that hurt financially by the last years lockdowns. And we have gotten what? 3,200$ Each from the government? Not to mention if you have kids and a lot of us refinanced our homes this year at crazy low rates. So A lot of people are buying toys, guns, and out of state tags with there extra cash. The economy most certainly will crash in 4 years or so and it will be the good ol days of hunting again. Whatever that means lol
Post by: dvolmer on March 23, 2021, 01:32:19 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on March 23, 2021, 03:20:31 PM
Post by: kselkhunter on March 23, 2021, 04:28:20 PM
have money to spend on out of state hunts they're going to. Oregon saw a 37% increase last month in spring bear applications. Idaho OTC tags moved quickly once the process opened. I think this spring we see significant increases in various western states controlled applications and OTC tags. Montana and Wyoming likely see a significant bump in applicants this year, especially from any hunters that didn't get what they wanted for Idaho OTC tags. But agree the amount of non-resident applications in western states likely reduces in future years whenever the economy slows the next time. I just think this spring application season will see an abnormal spike.
Post by: mburrows on March 23, 2021, 06:45:51 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on March 23, 2021, 06:54:12 PM
Post by: mburrows on March 23, 2021, 07:47:54 PM
Post by: actionshooter on March 23, 2021, 10:41:12 PM
I’ll play devils advocate a little bit. Hunting opportunities due to more folks putting in is going to continue on a downward trend in my opinion. Social media like YouTube and Instagram are massive contributors to the popularity of hunting these days and that didn’t exist previously. I’d be surprised if we ever saw draw odds improve again.
I agree that the economy affects NR hunting really easy to see, but I think this ^^ has as much or more.... I call it the "Cameron Haines Effect" the term backcountry became pretty damn cool real fast and the population of hunters in the high country exploded. Social media and the internet in general has caused most of this IMO. The fact that Washington has become so pathetic hasn't helped either..
Post by: ganghis on March 23, 2021, 11:09:28 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 24, 2021, 07:12:53 AM
Post by: GWP on March 24, 2021, 07:25:11 AM
One thing that isn't being considered in all that though is even though its far easier to find and plan hunts, there's still no shortcut to success. Still gotta go and hunt. A guy is only gonna drive from Alabama to Colorado for elk a few times without success before you hang it up. Look at 5 year harvest data and despite all the new hard-core dudes out there, success rates haven't changed much. This internet fad type bubble is still a very new thing, 5 years or so. I think even this will stabilize as folks burn out.
That brought a chuckle. We were upland hunting, everything was open, but it had been well below freezing for some time. No open water where we were. Three 'kids' showed up by our camp site and proceeded to pull out a good sized aluminum boat, and decoys. I went over and explained there was no open water. They knew better and left dragging the boat through the snow, the one that looked in charge making mention of them being "hard core hunters" as they left. Ok. Whatever.
The next day when we were out hunting I followed the boat drag marks for at least a mile where it arced back toward the camp site. Had to have been quite a workout!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 24, 2021, 08:06:42 AM
:chuckle: I only laugh because I think we can all relate to doing something similar. I can recall packing duck decoys on a pack frame to get to some duck spots that were miles and miles from the truck 🤦♂️One thing that isn't being considered in all that though is even though its far easier to find and plan hunts, there's still no shortcut to success. Still gotta go and hunt. A guy is only gonna drive from Alabama to Colorado for elk a few times without success before you hang it up. Look at 5 year harvest data and despite all the new hard-core dudes out there, success rates haven't changed much. This internet fad type bubble is still a very new thing, 5 years or so. I think even this will stabilize as folks burn out.
That brought a chuckle. We were upland hunting, everything was open, but it had been well below freezing for some time. No open water where we were. Three 'kids' showed up by our camp site and proceeded to pull out a good sized aluminum boat, and decoys. I went over and explained there was no open water. They knew better and left dragging the boat through the snow, the one that looked in charge making mention of them being "hard core hunters" as they left. Ok. Whatever.
The next day when we were out hunting I followed the boat drag marks for at least a mile where it arced back toward the camp site. Had to have been quite a workout!
Post by: mburrows on March 24, 2021, 08:40:23 AM
Post by: dvolmer on March 24, 2021, 08:44:58 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 24, 2021, 08:56:19 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on March 24, 2021, 09:08:06 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 24, 2021, 09:14:46 AM
Post by: DWBMontana on March 24, 2021, 09:16:09 AM
Post by: dvolmer on March 24, 2021, 09:18:45 AM
I personally think this year and 2020 will be the only ones with such drastic increases in applications. After this year i think it will ease up. It is artificially high due to people having extra money and nothing to do. There are plenty of people who cant see past friday night and had no release for their paycheck each week. As more people are able to restart spending their cash on fun and vacations less will have the extra finds or time to plan out of state hunts. Of course i may be 100% off base here tho. :chuckle:
I think your thoughts and predictions are as good as any. Once we open up and Disneyland, Hawaii, etc etc are options then maybe a reduction will be seen and like Karl mentioned, maybe the crazy unrealistic markets and interest rates wont be able to sustain itself and harder financial times are coming that will slow it down also. I guess time will tell.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 24, 2021, 10:21:32 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 24, 2021, 10:59:06 AM
Post by: dvolmer on March 24, 2021, 02:02:47 PM
Post by: idaho guy on March 24, 2021, 05:30:55 PM
I personally think this year and 2020 will be the only ones with such drastic increases in applications. After this year i think it will ease up. It is artificially high due to people having extra money and nothing to do. There are plenty of people who cant see past friday night and had no release for their paycheck each week. As more people are able to restart spending their cash on fun and vacations less will have the extra finds or time to plan out of state hunts. Of course i may be 100% off base here tho. :chuckle:
:yeah: I also agree internet go hunt etc etc have and will permanently increase demand for western hunting just because it’s fairly easy to figure out new spots and states with all the technology and information. Everything had been hard to get in the last year parts, some guns and we all know about ammo. I think stuff will mellow out in a year or max 2. Economy will effect it too but I think the surge this year in applications will slow down a bit in the future.
Post by: actionshooter on March 24, 2021, 06:23:58 PM
On the bright side... as long as the states are bringing money in, any decent politician won't let the anti's mess up the cash cow :chuckle:
Post by: Torrent50 on March 25, 2021, 06:35:39 AM
A lot of good thoughts... pretty much points to all this combined with some free Biden money thrown in for good measure, makes it harder and more expensive to be a NR :chuckle:
On the bright side... as long as the states are bringing money in, any decent politician won't let the anti's mess up the cash cow :chuckle:
Someone needs to fact check this statement and label it as false. Decent and politician cannot be used in the same sentence.