Post by: MeatMissile on April 03, 2021, 06:44:31 PM
Post by: BNAElkhntr on April 03, 2021, 06:54:29 PM
Post by: Jingles on April 03, 2021, 07:08:28 PM
Post by: Stein on April 03, 2021, 07:13:06 PM
So, yeah, I have a bunch of those on hand and wouldn't hesitate to use them if necessary.
Post by: MeatMissile on April 03, 2021, 07:15:12 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 03, 2021, 07:24:58 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on April 03, 2021, 09:14:54 PM
I don’t settle for more than 1 moa with a custom barrel and no more than 1.5 moa with a factory barrel. Any more than that and I’m barrel shopping.
2 moa from prone shooting targets doesn’t sound that good considering all taller shooting positions would be considered less stable and hunting accuracy tends to be worse than target accuracy.
I’d expect that to open up to 3+ moa in the field when hunting.
Post by: MeatMissile on April 03, 2021, 09:26:30 PM
What part of the process are you changing on the fly?? The bullet, powder, primer....?? I would have no problem changing my primer and having 100% confidence in my ammo. If I'm changing the bullet or powder....I feel I would personally have to work the load from the start. I also believe a guy can work a sub MOA load in under 50 rounds and sometimes in 20-30 if you have a good starting point.
Primers and brass. With some brass having more or less capacity and primers varying in how hit they are, I back off and work up. Sometimes, I can’t quite duplicate the accuracy from the original load.
Post by: MeatMissile on April 03, 2021, 09:30:28 PM
Try Hammer hunters. A few times now I’ve stumbled on less than 1moa right out the gate.
I don’t settle for more than 1 moa with a custom barrel and no more than 1.5 moa with a factory barrel. Any more than that and I’m barrel shopping.
2 moa from prone shooting targets doesn’t sound that good considering all taller shooting positions would be considered less stable and hunting accuracy tends to be worse than target accuracy.
I’d expect that to open up to 3+ moa in the field when hunting.
I check groups for improvised positions. A shot I’d take prone, I would never take in other positions because I can’t hold as well. For example, without sticks, I probably wouldn’t push 150 yards from sitting or kneeling.
Post by: GWP on April 04, 2021, 06:24:15 AM
I used to have my Hornet brass (as well as others) separated by weight, brand, case capacity bla, bla, bla. I finally dumped it all together as I certainly can not shoot as accurately as I used to. And the reality is most likely when I had a 'bad but tiny' group it was the shooter and not the load anyway.
If you are obsessive or a seriously accurate shooter it does give you more confidence if as many variables are controlled as possible though. Then you can be sure you screwed up if your 'tiny group' is bad...
I have had some box ammo that shot as good as anything I have loaded, but it is still more fun to work up loads on my own. And cheaper in the long run. Well, maybe not any more!
If I change up any component of a round I can usually tell within a few shots if it shoots the same and/or where it shoots.
Post by: jackelope on April 04, 2021, 10:24:58 AM
2 moa at 400 yards is roughly 8” group. 1 moa is roughly 1” per hundred yards. Not sure I’d be good with that.
Post by: jrebel on April 04, 2021, 11:29:21 AM
What part of the process are you changing on the fly?? The bullet, powder, primer....?? I would have no problem changing my primer and having 100% confidence in my ammo. If I'm changing the bullet or powder....I feel I would personally have to work the load from the start. I also believe a guy can work a sub MOA load in under 50 rounds and sometimes in 20-30 if you have a good starting point.
Primers and brass. With some brass having more or less capacity and primers varying in how hit they are, I back off and work up. Sometimes, I can’t quite duplicate the accuracy from the original load.
My personal experience....and I have a far bit, is that primers and brass will not effect a sub MOA load that much. What I mean by that is....if your normal load is Sub MOA 1" at 100 yards, simply changing brass and / or primers will not take you to a 2 MOA group. I test this theory quite often....my next range day I will be shooting a rifle that puts up sub 1" groups at 300 yards. My primary brass for this rifle is Hornady. I loaded 30 rounds of Nosler brass (because I had it and can't find any other Hornady at this moment) and expect the same results. I will report back in a couple weeks when I have the chance to shoot the nosler brass loads.
Powder and Bullts will make the biggest difference. If I switch bullets or powder, I always work a new load.
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2021, 11:33:19 AM
Post by: MeatMissile on April 04, 2021, 11:52:38 AM
Do you mean 2” at 400 yards?
2 moa at 400 yards is roughly 8” group. 1 moa is roughly 1” per hundred yards. Not sure I’d be good with that.
Yep, minute of pie plate at 400. Prone over my pack. No bi-pods or anything, just as it would be if I were hunting.
Basically, this whole thing stems from misplacing my 270 brass and a bunch of primers during a move. My regular load was Hornady brass, CCI 250 primer, 140gr Nosler AB, and 57.5gr of H4831. This load shoots really well out of my rifle. I’ve consistently shot groups at 300 yards that were in the 2 inch range. Hitting 6 inch plates at 400 wasn’t a big deal.
I had 100 once-fired federal cases and some Federal 215s, so I decided to see what would happen by changing components. I didn’t want to waste a bunch of ammo, so I just backed off and steadily increased charges until I was sure there wasn’t pressure problems. Only shot 5 shots, just to check pressure. I loaded up 20 rounds, took a few shots to adjust my zero. I fired one 5-shot group that was about 3 inches, but not all strung out. So, I then shot the rest from the prone at a pie plate at 400. 10 out of 10 hit the plate, but stretched nearly 8 inches from the farthest holes.
In the past, I’d have gone and adjusted this or that, but during these times, I thought this might be “good enough”.
Post by: jrebel on April 04, 2021, 12:03:07 PM
Post by: M_ray on April 04, 2021, 12:14:18 PM
I have shot both Fed 215 & 215 match with the same load from a 7wsm with no noticeable difference
Post by: jrebel on April 04, 2021, 12:20:43 PM
I'm pretty anal when it comes to my rifle loading and I have never noticed a ton of difference with simply changing brass or primers.
Post by: MeatMissile on April 04, 2021, 12:28:06 PM
You are correct.....I don't shoot a lot of cci and had my numbers crossed. I stand behind my previous statement that you shouldn't get that great a difference assuming your original load was Sub MOA. My guess the original load was not not and the small variations are magnified that much more. :dunno: :dunno:
I'm pretty anal when it comes to my rifle loading and I have never noticed a ton of difference with simply changing brass or primers.
I wouldn’t call my experiment real scientific either! There could be any number if more pertinent factors. The biggest question was whether all the effort makes much sense if I’m shooting at big game at ranges no more than 400 yards, and that’s under perfect conditions.
Post by: M_ray on April 04, 2021, 12:29:17 PM
You are correct.....I don't shoot a lot of cci and had my numbers crossed. I stand behind my previous statement that you shouldn't get that great a difference assuming your original load was Sub MOA. My guess the original load was not not and the small variations are magnified that much more. :dunno: :dunno:
I'm pretty anal when it comes to my rifle loading and I have never noticed a ton of difference with simply changing brass or primers.
Agreed, powder and bullet choice will obviously create greater Change than primer and brass IMHO
Post by: jrebel on April 04, 2021, 12:34:41 PM
You are correct.....I don't shoot a lot of cci and had my numbers crossed. I stand behind my previous statement that you shouldn't get that great a difference assuming your original load was Sub MOA. My guess the original load was not not and the small variations are magnified that much more. :dunno: :dunno:
I'm pretty anal when it comes to my rifle loading and I have never noticed a ton of difference with simply changing brass or primers.
I wouldn’t call my experiment real scientific either! There could be any number if more pertinent factors. The biggest question was whether all the effort makes much sense if I’m shooting at big game at ranges no more than 400 yards, and that’s under perfect conditions.
I guess your the answer to your question can only be answered by your comfort level with your load. I agree that pie plate accuracy is usually good enough and for most will kill consistently. I would not be happy with a hunting round that shot 8" groups at 400 yards....that's me though. Eight inches can be the difference between a good shot and a very bad shot on a deer size animal. Take in all the other variables in a hunting situation and a 2 MOA group would make me limit my range to 300 or less yards. Again....that is just me.
I would assume with very minor adjustments you could shrink that group. :tup:
Post by: MeatMissile on April 04, 2021, 03:03:37 PM