Post by: CP on May 26, 2021, 01:37:41 PM
https://app.leg.wa.gov/billsummary?BillNumber=1330&Year=2021&Initiative=false
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1019/text?r=1&s=1
Post by: huntnphool on May 26, 2021, 01:41:26 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 26, 2021, 01:41:47 PM
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 01:52:05 PM
About all I can think of
Post by: CP on May 26, 2021, 01:52:36 PM
What's the advantage over a motorbike that runs on gasoline?
You don’t have to license or register it, no insurance required, quieter, less maintenance, tax credit, no sales tax, they’re a lot of fun, …
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 01:55:53 PM
Why an ebike over something like this?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210526/eeee47199fe1de38ad6d2401ea0806bf.jpg)
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on May 26, 2021, 02:03:41 PM
Post by: h20hunter on May 26, 2021, 02:08:23 PM
Post by: CP on May 26, 2021, 02:09:16 PM
A better comparison would be a 50cc moped, vs motorcycle
Why an ebike over something like this?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210526/eeee47199fe1de38ad6d2401ea0806bf.jpg)
Actually, that's pretty cool. But so is this:
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 02:15:11 PM
I could bring a 5 gallon gas can and ride for weeks on tbe 50cc Honda Rukus
Post by: Special T on May 26, 2021, 02:17:54 PM
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Post by: CP on May 26, 2021, 02:19:11 PM
Would that survive a week at elk camp?
I could bring a 5 gallon gas can and ride for weeks on tbe 50cc Honda Rukus
Sure, just put that 5 gallons of gas in the generator.
Post by: CP on May 26, 2021, 02:20:12 PM
Post by: baker5150 on May 26, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
What's the advantage over a motorbike that runs on gasoline?
You don’t have to license or register it, no insurance required, quieter, less maintenance, tax credit, no sales tax, they’re a lot of fun, …
Aren't they allowed in some non-motorized areas as well? If they are under a certain wattage?
I could be mistaken.
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 02:25:27 PM
Not a Harley
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on May 26, 2021, 02:25:49 PM
https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/trail125-abs (https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/trail125-abs)
Post by: CP on May 26, 2021, 02:29:14 PM
So, I started reading your thread CP and at the same time, had flashbacks of the old Honda Trail 90s and Tote Goats. Whilst digging around, I found this... Holy heck, they're back! :chuckle:
https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/trail125-abs (https://powersports.honda.com/street/minimoto/trail125-abs)
Nice. :tup:
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 02:34:44 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 02:45:44 PM
yes they are, 750 watt and under. Unless private timber, they are ebike nazi’s, they don’t allow them. Hancock anyway.What's the advantage over a motorbike that runs on gasoline?
You don’t have to license or register it, no insurance required, quieter, less maintenance, tax credit, no sales tax, they’re a lot of fun, …
Aren't they allowed in some non-motorized areas as well? If they are under a certain wattage?
I could be mistaken.
Post by: vandeman17 on May 26, 2021, 02:50:00 PM
yes they are, 750 watt and under. Unless private timber, they are ebike nazi’s, they don’t allow them. Hancock anyway.What's the advantage over a motorbike that runs on gasoline?
You don’t have to license or register it, no insurance required, quieter, less maintenance, tax credit, no sales tax, they’re a lot of fun, …
Aren't they allowed in some non-motorized areas as well? If they are under a certain wattage?
I could be mistaken.
Montana recently changed it so that ebikes no matter what the wattage are considered motorized
Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 03:01:09 PM
lot of ebike haters out there, so would that state law over ride the federal law?yes they are, 750 watt and under. Unless private timber, they are ebike nazi’s, they don’t allow them. Hancock anyway.What's the advantage over a motorbike that runs on gasoline?
You don’t have to license or register it, no insurance required, quieter, less maintenance, tax credit, no sales tax, they’re a lot of fun, …
Aren't they allowed in some non-motorized areas as well? If they are under a certain wattage?
I could be mistaken.
Montana recently changed it so that ebikes no matter what the wattage are considered motorized
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 26, 2021, 03:04:26 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on May 26, 2021, 03:10:23 PM
That state leg bill died. Leg is out of session until next year now.
Meaning what? I was told when I called that I could not ride behind a gate on any sized e-bike
Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 03:18:19 PM
Id ride it if the bill failed.That state leg bill died. Leg is out of session until next year now.
Meaning what? I was told when I called that I could not ride behind a gate on any sized e-bike
Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 03:19:52 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on May 26, 2021, 03:23:06 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 26, 2021, 04:14:38 PM
It means the sales tax exemption in wa wont go through. Nothing to do with access or gatesThat state leg bill died. Leg is out of session until next year now.
Meaning what? I was told when I called that I could not ride behind a gate on any sized e-bike
Post by: Russ McDonald on May 26, 2021, 04:23:33 PM
This is the federal lawCan't read this can anyone else. Zoom inand it just blurs out
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Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 04:29:20 PM
sorry, I’ll post it smaller size?This is the federal lawCan't read this can anyone else. Zoom inand it just blurs out
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Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 04:29:50 PM
Post by: duckmen1 on May 26, 2021, 04:31:32 PM
Post by: Practical Approach on May 26, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
I love seeing people bypass me at a logging gate while I am on a standard mountain bike. And they have E bikes with signs posted no E bikes. Always nice to see someone being lazy passing someone working hard. No not against them when done legally. They are cool.
Or after biking in 5 miles in the dark to be passed just before first light by an illegal e-bike.
Post by: kentrek on May 26, 2021, 04:55:24 PM
I love seeing people bypass me at a logging gate while I am on a standard mountain bike. And they have E bikes with signs posted no E bikes. Always nice to see someone being lazy passing someone working hard. No not against them when done legally. They are cool.
Clearly you've never riden one cuz e bikes are really really hard work :chuckle:
I've been told this countless times
Post by: duckmen1 on May 26, 2021, 05:08:24 PM
I love seeing people bypass me at a logging gate while I am on a standard mountain bike. And they have E bikes with signs posted no E bikes. Always nice to see someone being lazy passing someone working hard. No not against them when done legally. They are cool.
Clearly you've never riden one cuz e bikes are really really hard work :chuckle:
I've been told this countless times
So are quads from what I am told. :o
Post by: millerwheeler on May 26, 2021, 05:16:33 PM
Post by: Bareback on May 26, 2021, 06:17:23 PM
Post by: Special T on May 26, 2021, 07:04:52 PM
An incentive not to exercise, nice! Fat Americans.Im actually gonna disagree with you on this one. While i dont own one ive ridden one. Are they as much work as my normal bike? No. But if they facilitate going out and getting some they arnt that bad...
AND if you are trying to get out more but your woman kids whatever arnt willing to work as hard as you and e bikes facilitate that...
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Post by: Bareback on May 26, 2021, 07:15:28 PM
Post by: scotsman on May 26, 2021, 07:26:49 PM
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 07:28:32 PM
I get passed by illegal ATV's, dirtbikes UTV'S jeeps and pickups...but never an ebike yet.I love seeing people bypass me at a logging gate while I am on a standard mountain bike. And they have E bikes with signs posted no E bikes. Always nice to see someone being lazy passing someone working hard. No not against them when done legally. They are cool.
Or after biking in 5 miles in the dark to be passed just before first light by an illegal e-bike.
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on May 26, 2021, 07:49:41 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 26, 2021, 07:58:43 PM
Post by: actionshooter on May 26, 2021, 08:52:27 PM
My mom and dad also have power assist recumbent trikes. They ride 20+ miles, 3-4 times a week.... they are in their late 70s so tell me again how they are an incentive to not exercise?? :dunno:
Post by: fishngamereaper on May 26, 2021, 09:05:41 PM
Post by: actionshooter on May 26, 2021, 09:08:43 PM
I don't think people hate the e bike ..I think people hate the e bike when it's used in no motorized access area's... :twocents:
I agree with that for sure. I think the tickets for riding anything in closed areas need to be higher, make it hurt.
Post by: KFhunter on May 26, 2021, 09:19:23 PM
What's the mpg of these ebikes if you are using a Honda 2200 to recharge them?
It's like an 8 hr charge time for a 500Ah battery
honda 2200 will charge for 8 hrs on a single gallon of gas..so 20mpg? on an ebike? (if you're charging one battery fully drained)
under hunting conditions I highly doubt you'd get 40 miles on a battery (guessing 20 miles) but if you ran multiple batteries and only discharged to 50% you could charge 2 at once for 4 hours.
The 2200 Honda could charge a bunch of them at once, the more batteries you charge at 5 amps the more your "fuel economy" would be on each bike.
What really needs to happen is solid state batteries in the ebikes, then you could use far more of the Honda's capacity and charge in a small fraction of the time, your MPG would go way up, and your battery would last far longer.
5amp charging on current ebikes means the genny is just idling along wasting a 90% of its fuel
Post by: millerwheeler on May 26, 2021, 09:20:43 PM
The hate just makes me laugh!
Agreed think half the people hate cause they don’t have the money to buy one
Post by: fishngamereaper on May 26, 2021, 09:41:22 PM
Post by: Shoofly09 on May 26, 2021, 09:57:48 PM
I bought a rad rover electric fat tire bike last year and i love it. Quick trips to the store, take it when going to buddies house to have a few beers and not worry about DUI. My work commute is 9 miles, I can get to work almost as quickly on ebike as car in traffic, and not work up a sweat getting there.
never used it for hunting, just not the way I hunt or access property.
Post by: Special T on May 26, 2021, 11:07:02 PM
if you are trying to get out more but your woman kids whatever arnt willing to work as hard as you and e bikes facilitate that....... an incentive not to exercise? :tup:I dont want to make any assumptions about you. Nor do i care if you use an E bike for hunting or otherwise...
Have you been both been fit and Fat? (Not at the same time) have you ever been a part of changing your and or Others lifestyle around?
I personally think e bikes could help more in predator control than anything else. I find more deer nearnpeooles houses than deep in the woods. I personally feel an e bike could help more with calli g cats and shooting bears.
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Post by: huntnphool on May 26, 2021, 11:18:24 PM
I’m wondering how long until we see those signs again? :dunno:
Bone, Bigmacc, do you remember those?
Post by: duckmen1 on May 26, 2021, 11:28:28 PM
I don't think people hate the e bike ..I think people hate the e bike when it's used in no motorized access area's... :twocents:
I agree with that for sure. I think the tickets for riding anything in closed areas need to be higher, make it hurt.
Bingo. E bikes are great for many purposes for many areas and many different types of people. But they are not made for individuals to trust pass with a motorized bike in a closed area for motorized access. That is the only part that gets the hate.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 27, 2021, 05:28:01 AM
Post by: CP on May 27, 2021, 05:30:39 AM
What's the mpg of these ebikes if you are using a Honda 2200 to recharge them?
It's like an 8 hr charge time for a 500Ah battery
honda 2200 will charge for 8 hrs on a single gallon of gas..so 20mpg? on an ebike? (if you're charging one battery fully drained)
under hunting conditions I highly doubt you'd get 40 miles on a battery (guessing 20 miles) but if you ran multiple batteries and only discharged to 50% you could charge 2 at once for 4 hours.
The 2200 Honda could charge a bunch of them at once, the more batteries you charge at 5 amps the more your "fuel economy" would be on each bike.
What really needs to happen is solid state batteries in the ebikes, then you could use far more of the Honda's capacity and charge in a small fraction of the time, your MPG would go way up, and your battery would last far longer.
5amp charging on current ebikes means the genny is just idling along wasting a 90% of its fuel
Interesting question, the engineer in me had to calculate an answer, at least my best SWAG.
Honda claims .12 gph producing 1800 watts (that’s a good generator). My Rad mini came with a 672wh battery and I get about 25 miles on that, loaded down, gravel roads, pedaling in “fat American” mode. Actually, I weigh 225lbs but I’m 6’4”, not exactly fat but I’ll accept lazy.
But there is a 5amp fuse in the battery’s charge circuit so I can’t use that full 1800 watts. I have a 4amp charger, 4amps @ 54volts = 216 watts. Let’s go with that. Since we are wasting most the generator’s capacity, we don’t have to worry about the charger efficiency.
Full charge in 3.1 hours using about .37 gallons of gas. 67 mpg –
If we had more batteries and more chargers we could do much better.
Anyone want to check my math?
PS - There are 33.7 kilowatt hours in a gallon of gas. That would charge that battery 50 times if we could achieve 100% efficiency.
Post by: KFhunter on May 27, 2021, 07:27:22 AM
Post by: CP on May 27, 2021, 07:37:45 AM
I'm not sure how you're getting a full charge in 3h, what is your baseline battery depletion rate?
Charge time = battery capacity(watt hours)/charge power(watts) = 672wh/216w = 3.1hrs
It will actually be less, you can't deplete the battery all the way, but the charge rate slows down as the battery gets near 100%. It's my best guess.
Post by: kselkhunter on May 27, 2021, 07:52:18 AM
Post by: KFhunter on May 27, 2021, 07:55:06 AM
Its still old tech batteries, the solid state about to hit the market in a year or so will allow much higher wattage charging, using up that honda 2200 genny. I don't know what the capacity of solid state vs lithium but expect double or more, and a fraction of the charge time.
Should also have far more charge cycles while maintaining 80% capacity of new.
I'll keep burning gas until then.
Post by: KFhunter on May 27, 2021, 07:57:59 AM
Post by: kselkhunter on May 27, 2021, 08:07:52 AM
I'm considering a DIY ebike by converting my old mountain bike with one of the DIY kits. Not sure if I'm going for crank or wheel hub on the motor. But planning on doing a larger capacity LifePo4 battery on the rack over the rear wheel. Can get them up to 50Ah capacity....which for my use I'd never need to charge it in the field....but probably will go for 25Ah as a better cost/weight trade-off.
Post by: CP on May 27, 2021, 08:10:41 AM
EVs with solid state batteries won't arrive in production cars until around 2030.
I'm considering a DIY ebike by converting my old mountain bike with one of the DIY kits. Not sure if I'm going for crank or wheel hub on the motor. But planning on doing a larger capacity LifePo4 battery on the rack over the rear wheel. Can get them up to 50Ah capacity....which for my use I'd never need to charge it in the field....but probably will go for 25Ah as a better cost/weight trade-off.
Sweet project, sounds like fun. :tup:
Post by: Igor on May 27, 2021, 08:18:01 AM
It would be lunacy to buy an electric vehicle now! The Ford Lighting is going to be a huge flop, outdated before it even hits the floor.
That is an interesting observation. I don't want to derail the e-bike thread, so maybe there should be a new thread about e-trucks.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on May 27, 2021, 08:38:02 AM
It would be lunacy to buy an electric vehicle now! The Ford Lighting is going to be a huge flop, outdated before it even hits the floor.
That is an interesting observation. I don't want to derail the e-bike thread, so maybe there should be a new thread about e-trucks.
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,261102.0.html
Ask and you shall receive :)
Post by: Bareback on May 27, 2021, 09:44:29 AM
if you are trying to get out more but your woman kids whatever arnt willing to work as hard as you and e bikes facilitate that....... an incentive not to exercise? :tup:I dont want to make any assumptions about you. Nor do i care if you use an E bike for hunting or otherwise...
Have you been both been fit and Fat? (Not at the same time) have you ever been a part of changing your and or Others lifestyle around?
I personally think e bikes could help more in predator control than anything else. I find more deer nearnpeooles houses than deep in the woods. I personally feel an e bike could help more with calli g cats and shooting bears.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
I think you may be getting the wrong impression. I’m not against Ebike, I’m not against them as a scaled form of exercise, it’s actually great to see people out on Ebikes that otherwise couldn’t do it. My statement was not a blanket cover all statement. I don’t agree with the purchase being subsidized. If the tax break is an incentive to exercise then I should get a tax right off for my gym membership, my shoes, and attire?
Have you been both been fit and Fat? (Not at the same time) have you ever been a part of changing your and or Others lifestyle around? Yes, yes and yes. The latter two are a viscous cycle that require mental toughness and family support to combat, physically and psychologically. Been there, individually and family.
Post by: Stein on May 27, 2021, 09:58:20 AM
Post by: Special T on May 27, 2021, 10:19:13 AM
:tup:if you are trying to get out more but your woman kids whatever arnt willing to work as hard as you and e bikes facilitate that....... an incentive not to exercise? :tup:I dont want to make any assumptions about you. Nor do i care if you use an E bike for hunting or otherwise...
Have you been both been fit and Fat? (Not at the same time) have you ever been a part of changing your and or Others lifestyle around?
I personally think e bikes could help more in predator control than anything else. I find more deer nearnpeooles houses than deep in the woods. I personally feel an e bike could help more with calli g cats and shooting bears.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
I think you may be getting the wrong impression. I’m not against Ebike, I’m not against them as a scaled form of exercise, it’s actually great to see people out on Ebikes that otherwise couldn’t do it. My statement was not a blanket cover all statement. I don’t agree with the purchase being subsidized. If the tax break is an incentive to exercise then I should get a tax right off for my gym membership, my shoes, and attire?
Have you been both been fit and Fat? (Not at the same time) have you ever been a part of changing your and or Others lifestyle around? Yes, yes and yes. The latter two are a viscous cycle that require mental toughness and family support to combat, physically and psychologically. Been there, individually and family.
we are in agreement. and your clarification makes more sense now.
Post by: bigmacc on May 28, 2021, 01:56:56 PM
Years ago I remember seeing posted signs in the Methow at closed gates saying “No Mechanized Vehicles” which clearly included bikes.
I’m wondering how long until we see those signs again? :dunno:
Bone, Bigmacc, do you remember those?
Yes I do phool, I would love to see them back, anything mechanical cannot go through the gate. Heck, I'm not a bike hater but I guarantee you most of those guys are passing up animals, two guys on their fancy bikes passed me and a pard a few years ago, we were about 4 miles in and they came down the road and passed by us, we walked another 20 or 30 feet and about 50 yards or so off the road was a nice 4 point, bedded in some thick stuff, my buddy dropped him. Those guys buzzed right past him. We ran into them a few days later, we recognized one of the fellas fueling up at the gas station, he said they were heading home, skunked, didn't have the heart to tell him, seemed like a good guy. I to this day still walk everywhere, can't tell you how much you see when just walking from point A to B and I'm old :chuckle:, Heck most of the guys I see riding bikes and the new electric ones are youngsters in their prime, oh well, I can still go places thay can't and ill see a lot more just getting there, sometimes the old fashioned ways still work AND can be more productive, can't even count how many bucks we've killed either on the way out or on the way in to a spot, just poking along... :twocents:
Post by: trophyhunt on May 28, 2021, 02:09:55 PM
exactly, I’ve made that point before. That’s why I don’t get pissed if someone rides or walks fast by me when I’m hunting. Hunting has a lot to do w luck and timing, no need to worry or bitch about ebikes or anything else.Years ago I remember seeing posted signs in the Methow at closed gates saying “No Mechanized Vehicles” which clearly included bikes.
I’m wondering how long until we see those signs again? :dunno:
Bone, Bigmacc, do you remember those?
Yes I do phool, I would love to see them back, anything mechanical cannot go through the gate. Heck, I'm not a bike hater but I guarantee you most of those guys are passing up animals, two guys on their fancy bikes passed me and a pard a few years ago, we were about 4 miles in and they came down the road and passed by us, we walked another 20 or 30 feet and about 50 yards or so off the road was a nice 4 point, bedded in some thick stuff, my buddy dropped him. Those guys buzzed right past him. We ran into them a few days later, we recognized one of the fellas fueling up at the gas station, he said they were heading home, skunked, didn't have the heart to tell him, seemed like a good guy. I to this day still walk everywhere, can't tell you how much you see when just walking from point A to B and I'm old :chuckle:, Heck most of the guys I see riding bikes and the new electric ones are youngsters in their prime, oh well, I can still go places thay can't and ill see a lot more just getting there, sometimes the old fashioned ways still work AND can be more productive, can't even count how many bucks we've killed either on the way out or on the way in to a spot, just poking along... :twocents:
Post by: Jonathan_S on May 28, 2021, 02:51:11 PM
E-bikes can get somebody into trouble but they can't get 'em out of it. Should be some fun walks out of the woods with a busted e-bike.
Post by: bigmacc on May 28, 2021, 03:55:37 PM
Crappy hunters will ride past deer so give them e-bikes? :oGot a great story of great grandpa and g. Grandma involving “bikes” remind me, I’ll tell it another time, may have told it before, involved some Honda 90,s and a couple youngsters, it’s a classic, one of grandpas favorite hunting stories 👍
E-bikes can get somebody into trouble but they can't get 'em out of it. Should be some fun walks out of the woods with a busted e-bike.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 28, 2021, 06:03:14 PM