Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2009, 11:51:20 AM
What do you think???
:) or :bdid:
Post by: Houndhunter on April 29, 2009, 11:59:15 AM
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2009, 12:25:11 PM
Help!!!!
Post by: Curly on April 29, 2009, 12:45:08 PM
BTW - somewhere on this forum is several pages of discussing this topic. Found it: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,25972.0.html
Post by: Ray on April 29, 2009, 01:21:10 PM
"Reply", "New topic", "Notify", "Add Poll"
Post by: gottatree on April 29, 2009, 01:21:37 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2009, 01:58:38 PM
Let your voice be heard.....Do we want another hunting activity outlawed?......Who's next????
:) or :bdid:
Keep those votes comming in.......
Post by: jackelope on April 29, 2009, 02:36:25 PM
:)
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2009, 04:43:10 PM
Post by: bow-n-head on April 29, 2009, 05:07:18 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2009, 05:28:29 PM
Please be sure to vote on the poll if you haven't already.
Post by: PolarBear on April 29, 2009, 05:51:25 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on April 29, 2009, 09:05:51 PM
I don't really care but, imo, hunting anything with dogs (except birds) is not sporting. I'm not saying that it should be banned we need it for certain population controls, but I see absolutely no sport in it.:chuckle:
Post by: Branden on April 30, 2009, 06:23:58 AM
Post by: deaddog on April 30, 2009, 09:31:56 AM
Post by: cully on April 30, 2009, 11:03:14 AM
My understanding, it's a lure/decoy technique. Dog goes on chase then dog gets called back, reverse chase happens bringing yote in. Never heard of dogs chasing and killing yotes technique before? But even if that is a technique, we use falcons to hunt and kill our quarry in a similar manner. That's not "sporting"?
Using dogs sounds just as "sporting" as a lot of other techniques to me? And while we are at it, you guys who disagree should define "sporting"! Where does it stop? Outlaw calls, scents, other attractants? Falconry? Maybe, if you have to use dogs to find your upland birds, you are just not "sporting"? I mean, let's not get hypocritical now!!
Post by: jackelope on April 30, 2009, 11:05:58 AM
Quote
Sad to see that even here, folks who dont know a damn thing about it would vote to have it unlawfull. If we cant get support on this issue from supposed hunters here, what chance against the damn wdf and its F#%^&g peta partners, do we have? Some of you guys make me want to puke!
maybe educating folks would be better than getting pissed off. start a new thread and explain how it works.
i know how decoying works, but honestly don't know how anything else works.
Post by: Houndhunter on April 30, 2009, 11:08:20 AM
Post by: jackelope on April 30, 2009, 11:09:52 AM
i betcha there's a bunch on here that don't know how it works.
Post by: Houndhunter on April 30, 2009, 11:11:47 AM
Post by: deaddog on April 30, 2009, 01:11:09 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 30, 2009, 01:13:18 PM
Post by: Curly on April 30, 2009, 01:45:19 PM
anyone care to start a thread explaining the ins and outs of hound hunting coyotes?
i betcha there's a bunch on here that don't know how it works.
I doubt Bearpaw (this topic starter) would mind if people started discussing hound hunting coyotes right here in this thread. :dunno:
Anyway, I don't know much about it. Although I did see a few minutes of a video at sportsman show where hounds were used to chase down coyotes and when they caught them, they tore the S$_t out of them. I have no desire to witness that type of activity, but on the other hand I don't think it should be outlawed. Just like I didn't have any desire to go trapping, but I don't think that activity should have been banned either. The guys with hounds have really gotten shafted in this state.
And another thing.........should we just sit back and allow the WDFW to just start outlawing activities that they decide are socially unacceptable? What if they decide bow hunting is not acceptabte........or what if they decide cougar hunting is not acceptable....or wait, they already did. ;)
Post by: Curly on April 30, 2009, 02:14:33 PM
Post by: cully on April 30, 2009, 02:29:01 PM
To me, Hunting is hunting. What method one chooses is subject to interpretation of ethical, sporting or what ever term you choose, to another. Personally, I see the terms ethical or sporting as loosely defined at best and not applicable or at least endlessly debateable.
It's just another chip out of the bigger picture to me.
Post by: bow-n-head on April 30, 2009, 04:36:04 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 30, 2009, 04:37:53 PM
Post by: bow-n-head on April 30, 2009, 04:40:02 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 30, 2009, 05:33:13 PM
Well it is as diverse as bird hunting with dogs. To my knowledge these are the types of dogs used.
Decoy Dogs - These dogs are trained to run out a couple hundred yards or so, get the attention of the coyote, and run back to the owner, who hopefully can hit the ensueing coyote.
Hounds - These dogs pursue a coyote in much the same way as pursuing a bear, except the coyote usually has more endurance than most dogs, and even most bear. Because the coyote generally makes very large circles, the hunter can figure out where to hopefully ambush the coyote for an effective shot.
Beagles - Some guys like using beagles or similar small dogs. The chase is usually slower and coyotes will often run a smaller circle. Same method, the hunter tries to get himself into a good ambush spot hoping for a shot.
Catch Dogs - These are often greyhounds or a similar type dog. They have great eyesight and speed. The hunter must first locate a coyote that the dogs can get sight of, they then have a chance of catching the coyote and killing it.
Post by: bearpaw on April 30, 2009, 05:53:48 PM
Remember to vote in the poll on the top of this page........
Thanks
Post by: bow-n-head on April 30, 2009, 06:01:47 PM
Post by: stumprat on April 30, 2009, 06:07:07 PM
Too late. It's gone already. Now is the time to get prepared for any further cuts!
Post by: Curly on April 30, 2009, 07:58:34 PM
And here (http://nitroscoyotehoundandhuntingadventure.yuku.com/topic/2733/t/few-pics-from-one-of-the-catches-sat.html) is a thread on a message board with some pics. A lot of the message boards don't have pics available for non-members to view. Probably a good idea to not let PETA types get any ammo for shutting down hunting with hounds.
Here is a youtube video about fox and coyote hunting with hounds.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nfr-FgGK5Y[/youtube]
Post by: bearpaw on April 30, 2009, 08:30:09 PM
Remember, vote at the top of this page..............
Post by: WDFW-SUX on May 01, 2009, 11:49:07 AM
Post by: deaddog on May 01, 2009, 01:09:07 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 01, 2009, 04:52:32 PM
The dog hunter has a better time watching the dogs work than taking the animals. Some of my most memorable hunts are hunts where the animal was left unharmed. It is sad that any hunter would be so opposed to something they have no experience with.
My son and I were looking at getting a couple experienced coyote dogs, now the chance of participating in that sport has been taken away possibly forever......
Remember, vote at the top of this page..............
Post by: bearpaw on May 06, 2009, 02:25:21 PM
Post by: Hunting Cowboy on May 07, 2009, 06:49:06 PM
Post by: deaddog on May 08, 2009, 04:55:17 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 08, 2009, 05:01:30 PM
i think it's safe to assume it was not intentional.
Post by: jackelope on May 08, 2009, 05:28:25 PM
:'(
Post by: Hunting Cowboy on May 08, 2009, 06:19:58 PM
I pretty much agree with Bearpaw's signiture statement states which says................
"Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights and freedom of choice. Do you support the freedom of choice? Do you prefer to make the choices for other people? Do you prefer to do nothing, while some people make the choices for other people? This choice is still yours, do you choose to keep it?"
Post by: Huntboy on May 11, 2009, 01:15:30 AM
Post by: bearpaw on May 18, 2009, 12:56:37 PM
I must have made some mistake when I started the poll, please continue voting.
Have been out turkey hunting the last week and haven't been on the forum lately. Saw 5 coyotes yesterday and many others every day I was out. There's definitely no shortage of coyotes.
Post by: 270Shooter on May 18, 2009, 03:24:31 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 18, 2009, 04:43:27 PM
I hope we can get everyone to vote on this so we can see what the consensus is among hunters. Tell your friends to come and vote.
Post by: Branden on May 20, 2009, 05:45:46 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on May 20, 2009, 08:21:49 PM
The dogs chase the coyote down and kill it. Where is the sport in that? Honestly where is there any sport in it for the "Hunter"? I'm glad they banned it.No, from what I understand, the dog you use is like a decoy to take the attention of the coyote away from the hunter.
Post by: Houndhunter on May 20, 2009, 09:03:05 PM
The dogs chase the coyote down and kill it. Where is the sport in that? Honestly where is there any sport in it for the "Hunter"? I'm glad they banned it.plenty of sport, you ever done it? or just judging somethin you've never seen nor done?
Post by: bearpaw on May 20, 2009, 11:52:46 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 21, 2009, 05:25:39 AM
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:12:08 PM
No, from what I understand, the dog you use is like a decoy to take the attention of the coyote away from the hunter.
Then read up a little so you can understand it better.
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:14:43 PM
plenty of sport, you ever done it? or just judging somethin you've never seen nor done?Have you ever done it? If not then how do you know there is plenty of sport?
I have read a ton of stories, and watched video clips. I guess if I was there in person I would change my mind? Not likely.
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:15:23 PM
Hi Branden, I was just wondering what type of hunting you like the most, if you are willing to tell us.
If you answer my question first.
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 05:15:54 PM
Branden...i think you need to also read up on it, because that is in fact a popular method of using dogs for the purpose of coyote hunting.No, from what I understand, the dog you use is like a decoy to take the attention of the coyote away from the hunter.
Then read up a little so you can understand it better.
Post by: mossback91 on May 21, 2009, 05:17:41 PM
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:17:52 PM
Probably not even a hunter but a ARA. :dunno:
LOL. To bad its not true for the 4 cougars I shot.
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:21:37 PM
Branden...i think you need to also read up on it, because that is in fact a popular method of using dogs for the purpose of coyote hunting.No, from what I understand, the dog you use is like a decoy to take the attention of the coyote away from the hunter.
Then read up a little so you can understand it better.
I agree that decoying is one of the ways they use dogs, no argument there. Its the other part that I disagree with. Read some stories on the chases. Most of the so called 'hunters' aren't even there to see the dogs kill the coyote. That sounds like a fantastic 'HUNT'. Maybe they should legalize it for deer and elk hunting? I wouldn't have to buy any arrow's or bullets then.
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:22:07 PM
I would have to say a guy by the name of houndhunter might know a thing or two about using hounds to hunt game.............
Why do you follow me on this site?
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 05:24:24 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 05:24:57 PM
Post by: mossback91 on May 21, 2009, 05:25:34 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: Branden on May 21, 2009, 05:27:19 PM
they do in some states like the southern east side of the country. people use dogs to hunt deer there. it's a legal hunting practice.
I was not aware the dogs actually killed the deer in the east when they use them?
Post by: Houndhunter on May 21, 2009, 09:13:38 PM
I wouldn't have to buy any arrow's or bullets then.
try buying dog food, its a hell of alot more than arrows and bullets. cleaning a gun harder than cleaning a dog pen? training a gun most be harder than training a dog too? you cant say theres no sport in it, alot more work goes into hounding than just running your dogs. i dont see any point in argueing much more when im not talking to some one in person, but i hope you get what im trying to say
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 11:01:48 PM
they do in some states like the southern east side of the country. people use dogs to hunt deer there. it's a legal hunting practice.
I was not aware the dogs actually killed the deer in the east when they use them?
they chase them. i didn't say they killed them. you got me on a technicality i guess.
:bash:
you sure got defensive about all this in a hurry.
:dunno:
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 11:03:08 PM
Probably not even a hunter but a ARA. :dunno:
LOL. To bad its not true for the 4 cougars I shot.
lets see some pics.
Post by: deaddog on May 22, 2009, 08:03:03 AM
There seems to be a lot your not aware of, brandon. In stead of arguing about something you know dick about,. you might want to follow some of the advice others have given you and read up on the topic.they do in some states like the southern east side of the country. people use dogs to hunt deer there. it's a legal hunting practice.
I was not aware the dogs actually killed the deer in the east when they use them?
Post by: 270Shooter on May 22, 2009, 03:26:08 PM
:rolleyes: :chuckle: :rolleyes: :chuckle: :rolleyes: :chuckle: :rolleyes: :chuckle:
LOL. To bad its not true for the 4 cougars I shot.
Post by: Justin C. on May 23, 2009, 07:01:23 AM
I don't see why some of you guys are getting mad because someone doesn't share your views. :dunno:
I don't personally have a problem with using a dog for some of the methods you guys have stated, BUT as for letting hounds chase a coyote to exhaustion and then killing it I am against it. If the hounds kill the coyote the hide would be junk so I don't see the point in it anyway. I don't think its a matter of the topic being sporting but is it ethical and humane? I don't feel that it is. Pitting animals in a fight to the death is illegal in the USA and it is discusting. I would not support dog fighting or cock fighting either. I know some of you guys will say that is not how it always happens but it happens a lot with this kind of hunting.
We hunters need to stick together in the fight against the antis, but also if we make sure that the methods we use for hunting are as ethical and humane as possible then we will have a lot less fighting in the first place.
Post by: Branden on May 23, 2009, 01:48:40 PM
they chase them. i didn't say they killed them. you got me on a technicality i guess.
:bash:
you sure got defensive about all this in a hurry.
:dunno:
I didn't think they killed them but I think you are from back east so I figure you would know. Not defensive at all.
I just don't think its right to have hounds kill coyotes, unless its necessary for population control. I look at coyotes the same as other animals that I hunt. Wouldn't want to see a pack of hounds kill a deer either.
Post by: Branden on May 23, 2009, 01:50:01 PM
lets see some pics.
I think I only have a pic of one of them on this comp, which I'll pm you. All the others were pre digital.
Post by: Branden on May 23, 2009, 02:01:57 PM
There seems to be a lot your not aware of, brandon. In stead of arguing about something you know dick about,. you might want to follow some of the advice others have given you and read up on the topic.
Enlighten me then since you obviously know exactly how its done.
Does the dog trainer not let the hounds loose on a fresh track? Do the hounds not trail the coyote? Do the hounds not catch some of the coyotes and kill them?
Those are all the questions I have for now, but after you are done enlightening me, I'll probably have a few more.
And a little reading comprehension on your part and you would see that I have researched it. And be able to spell my name correctly. ;)
Post by: bearpaw on May 23, 2009, 07:56:31 PM
I would think you may be on the wrong forum if your main concern is humane treatment of animals. :dunno: We as hunters shoot animals, we try to shoot well but some die right away, some crawl off and die, some have a slow and painful recovery. This is reality. :dunno:
Coyotes chew the hind quarters on deer until they bleed to death, this too is reality. There is nothing humane or pretty when it comes to predators or life of animals in the natural world. It is pretty much an "eat" or "be eaten" world and if you think otherwise you are severely mislead by too many disney movies. If a dog catches a coyote and kills it, so what.........that dog has done nothing to the coyote that the same coyote has not done a hundred times himself. :dunno:
Coyote Hunting with dogs is as diverse as bird hunting with dogs. Coyote hunting with dogs is no more inhumane than bird hunting with dogs since the dogs catch and kill some of the birds, no more inhumane than fishing where worms are skewed on a hook and fish suffocate to death when taken out of water or they are beaten on the head with a miniture baseball bat, no more inhumane than throwing a live lobster or other shellfish in boiling water, and definitely no more inhumane than the treatment any wildlife prey recieves from a coyote. :dunno:
Someone had asked how dogs hunt coyotes earlier, I will post this again????? While there may be another type of dog I am not familiar with, this covers most types.
Decoy Dogs - These dogs are trained to run out a couple hundred yards or so, get the attention of the coyote, and run back to the owner, who hopefully can hit the ensueing coyote. I have never heard of a decoy dog killing a coyote.
Hounds - These dogs pursue a coyote in much the same way as pursuing a bear, except the coyote usually has more endurance than most dogs, and even most bear. Because the coyote generally makes very large circles, the hunter can figure out where to hopefully ambush the coyote for an effective shot. Hounds generally pursue and sometimes bay coyotes there are a few dogs that may kill one but it is not the usual method of kill.
Beagles - Some guys like using beagles or similar small dogs. The chase is usually slower and coyotes will often run a smaller circle. Same method, the hunter tries to get himself into a good ambush spot hoping for a shot. I have never heard of a beagle killing a coyote.
Catch Dogs - These are often greyhounds or a similar type dog. They have great eyesight and speed. The hunter must first locate a coyote that the dogs can get sight of, they then have a chance of catching the coyote and killing it.
Post by: Houndhunter on May 23, 2009, 08:31:50 PM
Post by: Branden on May 24, 2009, 07:55:56 AM
Branden
I would think you may be on the wrong forum if your main concern is humane treatment of animals. :dunno: We as hunters shoot animals, we try to shoot well but some die right away, some crawl off and die, some have a slow and painful recovery. This is reality. :dunno:
Coyotes chew the hind quarters on deer until they bleed to death, this too is reality. There is nothing humane or pretty when it comes to predators or life of animals in the natural world. It is pretty much an "eat" or "be eaten" world and if you think otherwise you are severely mislead by too many disney movies. If a dog catches a coyote and kills it, so what.........that dog has done nothing to the coyote that the same coyote has not done a hundred times himself. :dunno:
Coyote Hunting with dogs is as diverse as bird hunting with dogs. Coyote hunting with dogs is no more inhumane than bird hunting with dogs since the dogs catch and kill some of the birds, no more inhumane than fishing where worms are skewed on a hook and fish suffocate to death when taken out of water or they are beaten on the head with a miniture baseball bat, no more inhumane than throwing a live lobster or other shellfish in boiling water, and definitely no more inhumane than the treatment any wildlife prey recieves from a coyote. :dunno:
Someone had asked how dogs hunt coyotes earlier, I will post this again????? While there may be another type of dog I am not familiar with, this covers most types.
Decoy Dogs - These dogs are trained to run out a couple hundred yards or so, get the attention of the coyote, and run back to the owner, who hopefully can hit the ensueing coyote. I have never heard of a decoy dog killing a coyote.
Hounds - These dogs pursue a coyote in much the same way as pursuing a bear, except the coyote usually has more endurance than most dogs, and even most bear. Because the coyote generally makes very large circles, the hunter can figure out where to hopefully ambush the coyote for an effective shot. Hounds generally pursue and sometimes bay coyotes there are a few dogs that may kill one but it is not the usual method of kill.
Beagles - Some guys like using beagles or similar small dogs. The chase is usually slower and coyotes will often run a smaller circle. Same method, the hunter tries to get himself into a good ambush spot hoping for a shot. I have never heard of a beagle killing a coyote.
Catch Dogs - These are often greyhounds or a similar type dog. They have great eyesight and speed. The hunter must first locate a coyote that the dogs can get sight of, they then have a chance of catching the coyote and killing it.
First your list is mostly smoke screens and you know it. And since you think its fine to use hounds to kill coyotes then do you think its fine to use them to kill deer and elk?
Scenario.
Grandpa and I are driving along. He sees a patch of timber he thinks deer would be in. I jump out and still hunt it for two hours and finally shoot a deer in the timber patch. Get it all loaded in the truck and away we go.
Now who is the hunter? Grandpa or me? Same as hunting coyotes with hounds.
Post by: stumprat on May 24, 2009, 08:19:53 AM
His list is not smoke screens. That is how it's done. The people down south that still hunt deer with dogs ambush them. They are hunted with hounds just like rabbits are hunted with beagles. The dogs run the deer and the hunters sit in likely ambush points. The dogs do NOT catch and kill the deer. As for Coyote hunting with dogs, you do not seem to know what you are talking about. In most cases they are run much the same way. Or with decoys. Catch and kill hunting with sight hound is not a widely practiced sport in the U.S., but some people do it. Mainly in the Southwest, and Midwest.
Before you get on your high horse you should educate yourself a little more. I find your hunting scenario laughable as that is how many young people get thier deer.
After reading your posts on this site I often wonder why you visit a hunting site.
What method or means do you hunt with if at all? I have read your previous posts wanting that question answered first, so here it goes. I hunt for deer and elk using a muzzleloader, grouse with a shotgun or .22, I also predator call with a .223 or 12 guage. I also fly fish avidly. And apologize to no one!
My hounds were sold a couple years ago because the people of this great state deemed that they knew what was good for me(some hunters included). My hope is that with the many recent Bear sightings in the seattle area these people will rethink thier decisions.
So I answered the question of my chosen hunting methods, Your turn.
Post by: Justin C. on May 24, 2009, 09:21:28 AM
The topic of this thread is You Can No Longer Hunt Coyote With Hounds... I don't see what using a decoy dog has to do with that. If the decoy method is covered under the same law then that sucks. That seems like a very good way to hunt coyotes and I would love to see it done.
I hunt birds with pointing dogs and I don't feel that it is it anything like hound hunting. If we have a dog that tries to chase or catch the birds then we have some more training to do. I also don't think all kinds of hound hunting are bad.
I will say that if there is a problem coyote that is going after livestock or causing some other problems the law about hound hunting them should not apply.
One last thought for now.....I think we should all be concerned about the humane treatment of animals and do everything we can to keep our hunting methods as ethical as we can.
Post by: stumprat on May 24, 2009, 09:32:20 AM
Bearpaw, I agree with you that there are plenty of instances in hunting and fishing situations where things don't go as humanely as we would like. I do think though that we should do our everything we can to make the kill quick and as painless as possible. If I were to wound an animal I would definitely not just say oh well that is just part of the sport.
The topic of this thread is You Can No Longer Hunt Coyote With Hounds... I don't see what using a decoy dog has to do with that. If the decoy method is covered under the same law then that sucks. That seems like a very good way to hunt coyotes and I would love to see it done.
I hunt birds with pointing dogs and I don't feel that it is it anything like hound hunting. If we have a dog that tries to chase or catch the birds then we have some more training to do. I also don't think all kinds of hound hunting are bad.
I will say that if there is a problem coyote that is going after livestock or causing some other problems the law about hound hunting them should not apply.
One last thought for now.....I think we should all be concerned about the humane treatment of animals and do everything we can to keep our hunting methods as ethical as we can.
Ethical by who's way of thinking? That seems to be the problem my friend.
Post by: Justin C. on May 24, 2009, 12:49:06 PM
It seems to me that with hunting as with a lot of things moral questions are the hardest for everyone to agree on but that is why we have good discusions such as this one. Hopefully we all listen to what the other guy has to say, consider his view and take away from it what we can. :twocents:
By the way guys I know Branden personally and with all the animals he's killed he is no A.R.A.
Post by: Branden on May 24, 2009, 11:03:14 PM
This whole discussion doesn't really matter anyway since they will never reinstate hunting coyotes with hounds since there are more effective ways of controlling the population. So all you hound hunters can keep on crying and bitching. Have fun treeing coons. lol
Post by: mossback91 on May 25, 2009, 03:15:57 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 26, 2009, 09:38:03 AM
I don't see you as a hunter other hunters could count on if needed. thats too bad.
Post by: granola/hippyslayer on May 26, 2009, 01:17:17 PM
Post by: Justin C. on May 26, 2009, 03:50:11 PM
wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change . :twocents:
Are you saying that because someone disagrees with a certain hunting method that they are a meadow muffin or tree hugger of some sort?
LOL Branden was in a wilderness for a month strait one time hunting doll sheep in AK as a guide. Some of that time was spent in Grizz and wolf country solo with no weapon. He also had wolverines in camp causing trouble a lot. It could be that you are the ignorant one.
Also I find your screen name to be very ignorant. Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.
Post by: billythekidrock on May 26, 2009, 04:42:51 PM
Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.
Only a moron would want to take away another persons recreation!
Post by: Branden on May 26, 2009, 05:52:49 PM
Branden, you seem to be very arrogant and high on yourself. division among hunters is not a good thing but you don't seem to get that.
I don't see you as a hunter other hunters could count on if needed. thats too bad.
I guess that its too bad I don't believe in dog fights, cock fights, and letting hounds kill coyotes. Obviously the people in charge agree with me and not the guys on this board.
wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change . :twocents:
Could you all please look up hunter in the dictionary. It say's nothing about having somebody or something else do all the work, including killing the animal for you. Here I copied this off Dictionary.com
–noun
1. a person who hunts game or other wild animals for food or in sport.
2. a person who searches for or seeks something: a fortune hunter.
3. a horse specially trained for quietness, stamina, and jumping ability in hunting.
4. an animal, as a dog, trained to hunt game.
I don't see where it says a dog trainer is a hunter, do any of you guys?
Like I said, have fun hunting coons. :P
Post by: Justin C. on May 26, 2009, 06:08:27 PM
Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.
Only a moron would want to take away another persons recreation!
So Vick should not have gone to jail because it was recreation?
What a stupid statement. :rolleyes:
Post by: Houndhunter on May 26, 2009, 06:42:23 PM
the reason they closed it was because dogs being used, not hounds killing yotes, to hunt canines is thought by some to be not moral in this day and age. i figure atleast 100 more yotes state wide, just not sure how many guys use dogs to hunt them maybe someone has a better estimate, will live this year because of that law. that to me seems big seeing as our small game numbers have drop substanctually since the end of trapping and hounding. then take reproduction of those yotes into effect and after a few years, well you get my point. i would rather have more game and play a bigger role in maintianing wildlife, than have less game and more prederators doing that for me. this law and more that will come could ruin our hunting as we know it, maybe not soon but eventually. i would give anything to have been born 50 years ago so i could have truly expeirenced what this great state had to offer.
i know this is maninly about hounding on yotes, but think of how much more spending and buying would be going on if we could still run hounds and trap. it was good for the economy, hell i know id be guiding bear with hounds and talk about a great way to put cash in the hands of a highschool kid.
in this day and age it seems like animals have the same rights as people, well it dont get more natural to a hound than hunting. the worst thing you can do to a hound is not allow them to do what they was made to do, i cant stand seeing dogs that stayed penned up most of the year do to the fact that some one tells you its wrong. maybe it wouldnt be a big deal if we could still run other animals, but what they did was make it so that you can only run one species for less than 6 months of the year.
its BS the whole issue with hounding and trapping, i love the sport to much to continue living in this state. im sure i will move to idaho or atleast near the border as some others, were losing our hunting rights year by year. and its to bad because this state has so much opportunity :twocents:
Post by: granola/hippyslayer on May 26, 2009, 08:13:13 PM
Oh yes you are quite right only a moron would want to kill someone because of a difference of opinion. People who take everything literally are also ignorant. Hunting fox / or today coyotes has been a sport for longer than this country has been established. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you should want to make it so those who do shouldn't be able to enjoy that activity. right wouldn't that make you just like the anti's right?wow I can't believe the people that call themselves "HUNTERS" today. I am in no way condoning mistreatment of animals,but look at the way all of the apex predator kill it is not to humane is it? people today are just to PC . I wish they would all go out and play survivor in the wild.with the coyotes and the wolves and see how there PC opinions change . :twocents:
Are you saying that because someone disagrees with a certain hunting method that they are a meadow muffin or tree hugger of some sort?
LOL Branden was in a wilderness for a month strait one time hunting doll sheep in AK as a guide. Some of that time was spent in Grizz and wolf country solo with no weapon. He also had wolverines in camp causing trouble a lot. It could be that you are the ignorant one.
Also I find your screen name to be very ignorant. Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.
Post by: jackelope on May 26, 2009, 08:13:43 PM
Quote
Like I said, have fun hunting coons.
i rest my case.
Post by: stumprat on May 26, 2009, 08:41:40 PM
adna, I use every weapon except a shotgun and pistol. And you obviously didn't get my point about having the hounds actually kill the deer or elk. Not the so called hunter.
This whole discussion doesn't really matter anyway since they will never reinstate hunting coyotes with hounds since there are more effective ways of controlling the population. So all you hound hunters can keep on crying and bitching. Have fun treeing coons. lol
Maybe when your method of hunting is deemed unacceptable you won't be laughing so loudly. The antis won't stop with just a few of us. And unfortunately we don't seem to give a *censored* about standing together. So yes I'm crying and bitching. But I'll understand when you need a tissue for your tears when you join us on the sidelines.
Thanks for your support. :bash:
Post by: Branden on May 27, 2009, 12:21:02 AM
Oh yes you are quite right only a moron would want to kill someone because of a difference of opinion. People who take everything literally are also ignorant. Hunting fox / or today coyotes has been a sport for longer than this country has been established. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you should want to make it so those who do shouldn't be able to enjoy that activity. right wouldn't that make you just like the anti's right?
Maybe when your method of hunting is deemed unacceptable you won't be laughing so loudly. The antis won't stop with just a few of us. And unfortunately we don't seem to give a *censored* about standing together. So yes I'm crying and bitching. But I'll understand when you need a tissue for your tears when you join us on the sidelines.
Thanks for your support. :bash:
I support hunting. It says nothing in the dictionary about a dog trainer being a hunter. Obviously most of the guys on this thread need a lesson in reading comprehension. I don't care if you use a decoy dog or even if you chase them as long as the human actually does something besides let the dogs out of the truck.
You know, if you guys are lucky you will get another year or two before they ban coon hunting. lol
Post by: billythekidrock on May 27, 2009, 06:08:40 AM
Only a moron would want to kill someone because they have a differant opinion.
Only a moron would want to take away another persons recreation!
So Vick should not have gone to jail because it was recreation?
What a stupid statement. :rolleyes:
The difference is Vick did it for profit.
I don't think Vick should have gone to prison. Jail and a fine, yes, prison, no.
Post by: Justin C. on May 27, 2009, 07:30:19 AM
Oh yes you are quite right only a moron would want to kill someone because of a difference of opinion. People who take everything literally are also ignorant. Hunting fox / or today coyotes has been a sport for longer than this country has been established. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you should want to make it so those who do shouldn't be able to enjoy that activity. right wouldn't that make you just like the anti's right?
Look I understand what you mean with your screen name and I am not taking it literally, I was just making a point. But you should think about the perseption that someone is going to have of you when you choose a name like that. It won't make a tree hugger want to listen to you since they will assume you are an ignorent red neck.
I also believe that if you think something is wrong you should try to stop it. I don't think that makes me an anti. If videos and pictures of that kind of hunting get on the news there will be alot more people against hunting and in turn more hunting will be banned.
So Vick should not have gone to jail because it was recreation?
What a stupid statement. :rolleyes:
The difference is Vick did it for profit.
I don't think Vick should have gone to prison. Jail and a fine, yes, prison, no.
[/quote]
So you think dog fights should be legal if only for sport and not for profit?
Post by: luvtohnt on May 27, 2009, 07:39:50 AM
I support hunting. It says nothing in the dictionary about a dog trainer being a hunter. Obviously most of the guys on this thread need a lesson in reading comprehension. I don't care if you use a decoy dog or even if you chase them as long as the human actually does something besides let the dogs out of the truck.
You know, if you guys are lucky you will get another year or two before they ban coon hunting. lol
So what about the cattle ranchers that live within a firearm restriction area and are trying to protect their herds. We have a guy in ellensburg that has greyhounds to kill coyotes for him so he doesn't risk the infraction for using a firearm within the restricted area.
Brandon
Post by: granola/hippyslayer on May 27, 2009, 01:33:02 PM
Post by: Branden on May 27, 2009, 02:50:13 PM
I support hunting. It says nothing in the dictionary about a dog trainer being a hunter. Obviously most of the guys on this thread need a lesson in reading comprehension. I don't care if you use a decoy dog or even if you chase them as long as the human actually does something besides let the dogs out of the truck.
You know, if you guys are lucky you will get another year or two before they ban coon hunting. lol
So what about the cattle ranchers that live within a firearm restriction area and are trying to protect their herds. We have a guy in ellensburg that has greyhounds to kill coyotes for him so he doesn't risk the infraction for using a firearm within the restricted area.
Brandon
He is protecting his property. Just like if a burglar broke in I see no problem shooting him.
Post by: bearpaw on May 27, 2009, 03:55:01 PM
My point is all of these animals were bread for a reason. At one point in time before everyone became overly sensitive towards everything. Most of these practices were not only common they were all socially acceptable. It is true that if we spend all of our time bickering amongst ourselves. we will never stand a chance against the anti's. I know some and they act as if it is a war and no one no matter how you act or how ethical you maybe. guess what? they don't care. they want all hunting to stop.
Granola....you hit the nail on the head...If everyone would only realize this, quit bickering... and start supporting each other we would not be losing various activities year after year.
Post by: bearpaw on May 27, 2009, 04:25:54 PM
Bearpaw, I agree with you that there are plenty of instances in hunting and fishing situations where things don't go as humanely as we would like. I do think though that we should do everything we can to make the kill quick and as painless as possible. If I were to wound an animal I would definitely not just say oh well that is just part of the sport.
The topic of this thread is You Can No Longer Hunt Coyote With Hounds... I don't see what using a decoy dog has to do with that. If the decoy method is covered under the same law then that sucks. That seems like a very good way to hunt coyotes and I would love to see it done.
I hunt birds with pointing dogs and I don't feel that it is it anything like hound hunting. If we have a dog that tries to chase or catch the birds then we have some more training to do. I also don't think all kinds of hound hunting are bad.
I will say that if there is a problem coyote that is going after livestock or causing some other problems the law about hound hunting them should not apply.
One last thought for now.....I think we should all be concerned about the humane treatment of animals and do everything we can to keep our hunting methods as ethical as we can.
I believe the law restricts hunting coyotes with any dog...that is the correlation...also some of the comments have asked how coyotes are hunted with dogs, decoy dogs are one of the types of dogs used.
I too hunt birds with my shorthair pointer...perhaps she is young and poorly trained by some standards...but she has done 30 birds straight and is still ready for more :IBCOOL:...I love hunting with her almost as much as my hounds :dunno:...but I can tell you, if I don't pay attention...she enjoys chewing on the birds just as much as my hounds enjoy chewing on a bear after we shoot it. ;) I would also like to note that dog training is needed to teach a bird dog not to chew on the birds, many dogs instintively want to bite and chew the birds...much the same way a coyote or wolf or hound wants to instinctively bite and chew on wild animals if they catch them. Bird hunters also must train many bird dogs to hold since they want to chase a bird that flushes. This again demonstrates the simularities that a bird dog has to hounds. The reason you must train is to control these natural tendencies in the dogs, just as wth hounds. We have to train the hounds which game we do not want them to pursue. Having actually owned and hunted bird dogs and nearly all breeds of hound dogs I find many, many simularities.
I agree, a hunter should respectfully dispatch wildlife as humanely as possible. But I think you are doing the sport a disservice to try and claim it is all about the humane treatment of animals. I know that the reason I go hunting is for the pure enjoyment of being a hunter, being in the wild outdoors, to kill em, bring em home to eat, and to have them mounted if I think they'll look good on the wall. I am not going to sugar coat the truth. That's the uninhibited truth, like it or not.
Post by: bearpaw on May 27, 2009, 04:48:29 PM
Branden
I would think you may be on the wrong forum if your main concern is humane treatment of animals. :dunno: We as hunters shoot animals, we try to shoot well but some die right away, some crawl off and die, some have a slow and painful recovery. This is reality. :dunno:
Coyotes chew the hind quarters on deer until they bleed to death, this too is reality. There is nothing humane or pretty when it comes to predators or life of animals in the natural world. It is pretty much an "eat" or "be eaten" world and if you think otherwise you are severely mislead by too many disney movies. If a dog catches a coyote and kills it, so what.........that dog has done nothing to the coyote that the same coyote has not done a hundred times himself. :dunno:
Coyote Hunting with dogs is as diverse as bird hunting with dogs. Coyote hunting with dogs is no more inhumane than bird hunting with dogs since the dogs catch and kill some of the birds, no more inhumane than fishing where worms are skewed on a hook and fish suffocate to death when taken out of water or they are beaten on the head with a miniture baseball bat, no more inhumane than throwing a live lobster or other shellfish in boiling water, and definitely no more inhumane than the treatment any wildlife prey recieves from a coyote. :dunno:
Someone had asked how dogs hunt coyotes earlier, I will post this again????? While there may be another type of dog I am not familiar with, this covers most types.
Decoy Dogs - These dogs are trained to run out a couple hundred yards or so, get the attention of the coyote, and run back to the owner, who hopefully can hit the ensueing coyote. I have never heard of a decoy dog killing a coyote.
Hounds - These dogs pursue a coyote in much the same way as pursuing a bear, except the coyote usually has more endurance than most dogs, and even most bear. Because the coyote generally makes very large circles, the hunter can figure out where to hopefully ambush the coyote for an effective shot. Hounds generally pursue and sometimes bay coyotes there are a few dogs that may kill one but it is not the usual method of kill.
Beagles - Some guys like using beagles or similar small dogs. The chase is usually slower and coyotes will often run a smaller circle. Same method, the hunter tries to get himself into a good ambush spot hoping for a shot. I have never heard of a beagle killing a coyote.
Catch Dogs - These are often greyhounds or a similar type dog. They have great eyesight and speed. The hunter must first locate a coyote that the dogs can get sight of, they then have a chance of catching the coyote and killing it.
First your list is mostly smoke screens and you know it. And since you think its fine to use hounds to kill coyotes then do you think its fine to use them to kill deer and elk?
Scenario.
Grandpa and I are driving along. He sees a patch of timber he thinks deer would be in. I jump out and still hunt it for two hours and finally shoot a deer in the timber patch. Get it all loaded in the truck and away we go.
Now who is the hunter? Grandpa or me? Same as hunting coyotes with hounds.
Hello Brandon
Quite frankly I don't need any smoke screens. Everyone reading these threads who knows about dog hunting for coyotes probably knows about these various types of dogs. The info was meant for those who do not know what types of coyote dogs are available. You obviously fit into this category. You seem to have a problem in believing what anyone tells you, so before you make a bigger &%$# of yourself I would advise that you google "coyote decoy dogs". Perhaps you should google a few other things while you are at it.
Your scenario with grandpa makes little sense to me as far as proving whatever point you are trying to make. I would say grandpa is an experienced hunter who wants to see his less experienced grandson make a kill. He knows where deer like to hide, he puts his grandson on the hunt, the kid does a good job and brings home the bacon. I would say that grandpa is quite the hunter for knowing the deer would be in there. The kid is learning how to be a good hunter by listening to grandad. Both are hunters. Same with the houndhunter and the hounds..... :dunno: Neither is as good without the other. together they are an effective team.
Post by: bearpaw on May 27, 2009, 05:40:44 PM
[/quote]
Once coon hunting is banned, it is probably gone forever, for everyone, including you, your offspring, and their offspring.
What ever hunting that you do like to do, I guarantee that someone else thinks it should be banned, and once your hunting is banned, it is probably gone forever, for everyone, including you, your offspring, and their offspring.
That my friend is how this game of opposing the other guy's sport plays out. Remember, United we stand, Divided we will fall.....
Post by: luvtohnt on May 27, 2009, 06:07:45 PM
He is protecting his property. Just like if a burglar broke in I see no problem shooting him.
If he gets caught or reported for shooting in a firearm restriction zone he would loose his hunting privlages. So again how is he going to protect his property?
Brandon
Post by: billythekidrock on May 28, 2009, 06:17:09 AM
Once coon hunting is banned, it is probably gone forever, for everyone, including you, your offspring, and their offspring.
What ever hunting that you do like to do, I guarantee that someone else thinks it should be banned, and once your hunting is banned, it is probably gone forever, for everyone, including you, your offspring, and their offspring.
That my friend is how this game of opposing the other guy's sport plays out. Remember, United we stand, Divided we will fall.....
:yeah:
Post by: deaddog on May 28, 2009, 03:02:53 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 31, 2009, 02:19:46 PM
Post by: deaddog on June 02, 2009, 01:04:02 PM
Thanks, I appreciate your concerns, but I really do think it is good to get some of this discussion out in the open, everyone learns when all sides of an issue are debated. I would rather have the discussion occur than have all these thoughts floating around unaddressed. :twocents: :dunno:I agree wholeheartedly, just remindes me of our last Presidential election, folks vote without one idea of the issues, just vote and then publicly put down an aspect of hunting that they have never done and dont even know what is done or how it is done. Sounds just like the granola eating, tree huggin morons that would end all hunting. I wonder what chance WE realy have in the future if hunters today think and realy feel that way. I see a lot of that on this site, if I dont do it than who cares. Wake the hell up morons, if I lose out today as a hunter who uses dogs during coyote hunting, whats next? Whos next?
Post by: Houndhunter on June 02, 2009, 01:22:42 PM
thats the question isnt it
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on June 02, 2009, 01:24:48 PM
It's kind of like doing a rediculously long walk every day with the chance of catching something on a rare occasion. A spirited quest that defies logic, but I love it nonetheless. Working the dogs is the most important part of it. I suppose it would be hard to explain unless you came along. It's a nice way to spend the winter. Give it a shot and try to be openminded.I don't really care but, imo, hunting anything with dogs (except birds) is not sporting. I'm not saying that it should be banned we need it for certain population controls, but I see absolutely no sport in it.:chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on June 02, 2009, 08:53:37 PM
With the hounds the hunter has the choice of leaving game unharmed or taking it, just the same as with fishing, and simular to making the choice to pull the trigger or release an arrow on any type of game or let it go and be happy with a photo.
If a person has not seen or felt this pleasure they have surely missed out on one of hunting greatest treats.
I am glad I do not understand how anyone can be so opposed to something they have never experienced. :dunno:
Post by: billythekidrock on June 03, 2009, 06:22:46 AM
I am glad I do not understand how anyone can be so opposed to something they have never experienced. :dunno:
:yeah:
Post by: bearpaw on June 29, 2009, 12:57:58 AM
Post by: Curly on June 29, 2009, 08:43:36 AM
Thought I would check back and see how this poll was doing. 130 votes it looks like so far, is there anyone else out there who has not cast a vote yet????
Looks like over 3,500 people have not voted yet........ :dunno: It amazes me how few votes some of these polls get.........it's not real hard to click on an answer.
Post by: bearpaw on July 11, 2009, 08:21:59 AM
I was at a meeting with two legislators the other night. I asked them if they knew about dogs being outlawed for coyote hunting.
They both said it didn't hapen. They said it was attempted through the legislature and they helped stop it from happening. I told them it was a law and shoed them the hunting phamphlet, needless to say they couldn't beleive it.
There is some support in the legislature to reverse this law.
Post by: bearpaw on August 07, 2009, 10:49:44 PM
A commissioner replied with something like "It was at a time when there was public outcry about the Vic dog fighting case." I don't think that reply went over too well. Debate on this issue is probably not finished yet, Morton supports the Commission quite often in the legislature and the legislature needs money right now.
I still think there is a pssibility of getting this changed. Letters would do a lot of good to help this cause. Please message me and I will give you a list of important persons to write asking for this to be corrected.