Post by: Bushcraft on August 27, 2021, 02:02:51 PM
They are public employees and the entirety of their work belongs to the public they are supposed to be serving.
The e-mails I've just provided should shed some light on who the root causes of the predator [mis]management problems are inside of WDFW.
Enjoy...then demand they all get sh!t canned. Especially Rich Beausoleil and now Candace Bennett.
Post by: Bushcraft on August 27, 2021, 02:03:38 PM
Post by: whacker1 on August 27, 2021, 02:13:36 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,263612.0.html
Post by: Duckslayer89 on August 27, 2021, 02:23:59 PM
Post by: highcountry_hunter on August 27, 2021, 02:31:24 PM
Makes me wonder if it was these same WDFW employees who were involved with the wolf depredation records in Olympia being changed from confirmed depredations by wdfw biologists, conflict specialists and sheriffs officers in Stevens County to Unknown cause of death in 2019
Post by: Jake Dogfish on August 27, 2021, 02:41:50 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on August 27, 2021, 02:47:33 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on August 27, 2021, 02:59:52 PM
The two newest commissioners (Smith, Koontz) are basically anti hunting.
No "basically" about it. They are 100% anti-hunting. If Inslee mated with a dog turd, the baby would be a Fred Koontz.
Note that neither of them were ratified by the Senate, as per WA's governing RCW's.
Post by: Fishmaker57 on August 27, 2021, 03:33:34 PM
I only read the first but the way those emails are written... you can just sense the disdain she has for hunters. I’m afraid I believe most of WDFW employees feel the same
Let's quantify this by saying "most WDFW employees in Olympia" feel the same. Most of the employees in the field, actually doing the work and trying to make a difference, are as bewildered and angry about the direction of our fish and wildlife as the rest of us....they just can't express it without losing their jobs! I know from experience most are hunters and fishers like us, and have to bite their tongues on a daily basis.
Post by: Colville on August 27, 2021, 03:37:48 PM
None of these folks have had their alpaca eaten, none had their black lab eaten, none watched the glowing eyes at twilight in their hedgerow. You can just feel: "those toothless 90 I.Q. Rednecks just want to kill cats, what a bunch of rubes how can we short circuit that, oh and can you pass the croissants."
Is it any wonder that peace officers that actually live in these communities support... their community? Is it any wonder that they are tired of waiting for days for a WDFW investigation, that leads to finding that it's "unclear" what killed the dog and nothing gets done. Go figure, local police understand the locals and know what their experiences are. And those police want to protect the pets and stock of their neighbors... i know, that's F*&$ing Crazy right? And they have the temerity to want to represent those people, quickly and to an effective end instead of delivering an animal population dynamics lecture paired with a sneering "if you live in an interface with nature, your pets are part of the food chain so get used to it".
In the past, we were used to it. It was solved with double ought buck and lever action rifles. Since you'll go to jail for that now, you have to settle for the lecture and insult to your intelligence.
Post by: Special T on August 27, 2021, 03:45:25 PM
I only read the first but the way those emails are written... you can just sense the disdain she has for hunters. I’m afraid I believe most of WDFW employees feel the same
Let's quantify this by saying "most WDFW employees in Olympia" feel the same. Most of the employees in the field, actually doing the work and trying to make a difference, are as bewildered and angry about the direction of our fish and wildlife as the rest of us....they just can't express it without losing their jobs! I know from experience most are hunters and fishers like us, and have to bite their tongues on a daily basis.
The problem I have with your statements is that department employee have griped that sportsmen are just complainers and take the frustration out on random employees. Yet very little is done to curb these bad actors, just focus on your job and keep your head down.
I wish some kind of trusted whistle blower outlet was available so that this kind of malfeasance could be best documented and brought to light.
Post by: hunter399 on August 27, 2021, 04:00:15 PM
1)Care about wildlife not hunters
2)Care about hunters not wildlife.
3)care about wildlife and hunters 50/50
Then Alot of them in between all of it.
I didn't read the emails but I stop emailing them a while back,and trying to keep it that way.
Post by: Hillbilly Zen on August 27, 2021, 04:09:10 PM
Post by: TheStovePipeKid on August 27, 2021, 05:05:37 PM
I know this doesn’t contribute to the conversation and I apologize in advance but I’m completely distracted from the discussion by Colville’s bashing of the croissant but usage of the word “temerity”. Carry on. 😂
Even a redneck enjoys "To Kill a Mockingbird".
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 27, 2021, 06:50:10 PM
I only read the first but the way those emails are written... you can just sense the disdain she has for hunters. I’m afraid I believe most of WDFW employees feel the same
I don't believe that. There are good people in the rank and file who are sportsmen. Once you get to the upper management and commission - not so sure.
Post by: Bushcraft on August 27, 2021, 07:47:29 PM
I only read the first but the way those emails are written... you can just sense the disdain she has for hunters. I’m afraid I believe most of WDFW employees feel the same
I don't believe that. There are good people in the rank and file who are sportsmen. Once you get to the upper management and commission - not so sure.
I agree with you Pianoman. Nevertheless, the anti-hunting, predator-hugging cancerous ilk within WDFW needs to be fired.
Post by: MtnMuley on August 27, 2021, 08:35:24 PM
Post by: Nwgunner on August 27, 2021, 08:50:27 PM
Honestly Im blown away by the lack of professionalism and 1 liners included in those emails. I have to go through yearly training about what can be said in emails so as not to damage the reputation of my company, divulge trade secrets, security etc... remember emails and the such are forever. And to see this government agency that's supposed to work for us and their complete disdain for anything they not in control of by the way of making jokes is the essence of arrogance.
From my training those emails could get those included in some trouble if they were leaked to the right sources. The public, cattleman's assc., and sheriffs office need to get a hold of them and let WDFW management deal with the blowback. if they will.
This is probably the tip of the Iceberg. Id love to read more.
Post by: Special T on August 27, 2021, 08:56:21 PM
As far as employees... how do we seperatenthe wheat from the chaff.the emails are phisical proof of the podcast and seem to backnup Buddies feeling on this. We have Kertson bio from snoqualmie area whom ive seen on camera chumming it up with the AR group mountain lion foundation. We have Candace Bennett, Bio, conflict specialist and hound shooter/kidnapper. Richard Beausoleil whomis the cougar and bear specialist, andi belive also called the carnivore section Mgr. Whos letter dripp with disdain wondering why cattlemen paid for a bill boar saying "call Stevens County Sheriff's Office NOT WDFW". Annemarie Prince whom is another bio in District 1.
People can make specualtions about given employees but this crew have proved to need more scrutiny because they so far resemble the explanation as to why we cant get more cats killed in that district. This is despite the fact that more conflict mediation cat are killed than cats in Quoata. Makes one wonder.
Post by: ASHQUACK on August 27, 2021, 08:57:03 PM
Less than 30% of WDFW employees hunt or fish, less than 7 in 10 have ever even thought about harvesting anything from the wild. Sickening but true. WDFW thumbs it's nose at those who do.
Post by: Special T on August 27, 2021, 08:57:55 PM
Good reads thanks for posting those.
Honestly Im blown away by the lack of professionalism and 1 liners included in those emails. I have to go through yearly training about what can be said in emails so as not to damage the reputation of my company, divulge trade secrets, security etc... remember emails and the such are forever. And to see this government agency that's supposed to work for us and their complete disdain for anything they not in control of by the way of making jokes is the essence of arrogance.
From my training those emails could get those included in some trouble if they were leaked to the right sources. The public, cattleman's assc., and sheriffs office need to get a hold of them and let WDFW management deal with the blowback. if they will.
This is probably the tip of the Iceberg. Id love to read more.
The rest of the emails are only a Public Record request away!
Post by: Special T on August 27, 2021, 08:59:12 PM
I'd like to add a little information here.
Less than 30% of WDFW employees hunt or fish, less than 7 in 10 have ever even thought about harvesting anything from the wild. Sickening but true. WDFW thumbs it's nose at those who do.
I think we all in a kick them while they are down mood, but it may be useful to cute that statistic.
Post by: Nwgunner on August 27, 2021, 10:04:49 PM
Apparently this has gained alot of attention. Good thing.
Post by: highcountry_hunter on August 27, 2021, 11:47:12 PM
Good reads thanks for posting those.
Honestly Im blown away by the lack of professionalism and 1 liners included in those emails. I have to go through yearly training about what can be said in emails so as not to damage the reputation of my company, divulge trade secrets, security etc... remember emails and the such are forever. And to see this government agency that's supposed to work for us and their complete disdain for anything they not in control of by the way of making jokes is the essence of arrogance.
From my training those emails could get those included in some trouble if they were leaked to the right sources. The public, cattleman's assc., and sheriffs office need to get a hold of them and let WDFW management deal with the blowback. if they will.
This is probably the tip of the Iceberg. Id love to read more.
The rest of the emails are only a Public Record request away!
Haha! Good luck with that! WDFW is as crooked as a question mark. From their commissioners right down their lying biologists and game wardens. I’m all for making requests for their emails to be made public but my guess is that you won’t receive them for a few years and when you do see them they will be highly edited to hide their lying and deceiving ways.
Post by: DishBogget on August 28, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rainier10 on August 28, 2021, 10:12:31 AM
Post by: Bushcraft on August 28, 2021, 10:22:51 AM
I would not say “all” are bad. There are a lot of really good employees that I have dealt with over the years, a lot. I am not sure I can think of one bad one. I can think of some that I disagreed with but they did have valid reasons for their opinion it just didn’t align with mine.
I agree with this sentiment. Lots of good people.
It's the bad apples that need to get tossed.
Post by: Rainier10 on August 28, 2021, 10:33:36 AM
For sure. We all have different ideas on management but no management is just no good.I would not say “all” are bad. There are a lot of really good employees that I have dealt with over the years, a lot. I am not sure I can think of one bad one. I can think of some that I disagreed with but they did have valid reasons for their opinion it just didn’t align with mine.
I agree with this sentiment. Lots of good people.
It's the bad apples that need to get tossed.
Post by: bearpaw on August 28, 2021, 10:44:26 AM
For sure. We all have different ideas on management but no management is just no good.I would not say “all” are bad. There are a lot of really good employees that I have dealt with over the years, a lot. I am not sure I can think of one bad one. I can think of some that I disagreed with but they did have valid reasons for their opinion it just didn’t align with mine.
I agree with this sentiment. Lots of good people.
It's the bad apples that need to get tossed.
:yeah: To take it one step further, management with an agenda is no good at all!
Post by: bigmacc on August 28, 2021, 03:31:00 PM
I'd like to add a little information here.I would like to throw in here, ASHQUACK is kind of right, I’m older than most you folks on here by a long shot, I remember the Game Department”, they were ALL hunters or fisherman, I can truly tell you I never met a “Game Department “employee who didn’t hunt, hell, many would come to our camp to swap movements, they ALL hunted. This is no longer the Game Department, myself and others have talked, told stories and tried to bridge the gap. The folks who are within WDFW are a different breed, maybe some of the boots on the ground, a few bio,s etc may be on the side of hunters but that role call is dwindling. WDFW is an extension of our Governor and his policies, we got what we got, elections are coming, 2022, 2024.
Less than 30% of WDFW employees hunt or fish, less than 7 in 10 have ever even thought about harvesting anything from the wild. Sickening but true. WDFW thumbs it's nose at those who do.
Post by: Taco280AI on August 28, 2021, 03:33:19 PM
Post by: Man Tracker on August 28, 2021, 07:46:26 PM
Post by: Special T on August 28, 2021, 08:05:23 PM
Great to read all the opinions. Thanks all. One correction. Brian Kertsen is NOT in the enforcement program.
Ya my bad... i had to look that up he is a Bio, i belive in the Snoqualmie area... ill have to own that.
Post by: Tbar on August 28, 2021, 08:10:40 PM
He's the lead on the predator prey project.Great to read all the opinions. Thanks all. One correction. Brian Kertsen is NOT in the enforcement program.
Ya my bad... i had to look that up he is a Bio, i belive in the Snoqualmie area... ill have to own that.
Post by: Special T on August 28, 2021, 08:18:37 PM
He's the lead on the predator prey project.Great to read all the opinions. Thanks all. One correction. Brian Kertsen is NOT in the enforcement program.
Ya my bad... i had to look that up he is a Bio, i belive in the Snoqualmie area... ill have to own that.
So The Dark Side is running the predator prey study? Great... when do we start assigning Empire nick names?
Post by: trophyhunt on August 28, 2021, 08:56:01 PM
:yeah: and once again, it comes down to azz hats voting for dems…. Getting old.I'd like to add a little information here.I would like to throw in here, ASHQUACK is kind of right, I’m older than most you folks on here by a long shot, I remember the Game Department”, they were ALL hunters or fisherman, I can truly tell you I never met a “Game Department “employee who didn’t hunt, hell, many would come to our camp to swap movements, they ALL hunted. This is no longer the Game Department, myself and others have talked, told stories and tried to bridge the gap. The folks who are within WDFW are a different breed, maybe some of the boots on the ground, a few bio,s etc may be on the side of hunters but that role call is dwindling. WDFW is an extension of our Governor and his policies, we got what we got, elections are coming, 2022, 2024.
Less than 30% of WDFW employees hunt or fish, less than 7 in 10 have ever even thought about harvesting anything from the wild. Sickening but true. WDFW thumbs it's nose at those who do.
Post by: Humptulips on August 28, 2021, 10:07:06 PM
Very mixed bag of people at WDFW
1)Care about wildlife not hunters
2)Care about hunters not wildlife.
3)care about wildlife and hunters 50/50
Then Alot of them in between all of it.
I didn't read the emails but I stop emailing them a while back,and trying to keep it that way.
You have forgotten a group that is fairly large from personal experience
4)Care about pay day and look towards retirement by never taking a position that will get them noticed.
Post by: ne kid on August 29, 2021, 07:53:11 AM
Post by: Tbar on August 29, 2021, 08:41:17 PM
I'm not sure how much weight I would put in the dark side comment. There is great concern with biased science, this is not an accusation (yet). There has to be accountability and standards. I also agree with others on this thread that remember the game department. The face of the wdfw has changed as have many of their funding sources. They now serve a much broader constituency than the hook and bullet crowd, failure to recognize this will only delay progress where it can be made.He's the lead on the predator prey project.Great to read all the opinions. Thanks all. One correction. Brian Kertsen is NOT in the enforcement program.
Ya my bad... i had to look that up he is a Bio, i belive in the Snoqualmie area... ill have to own that.
So The Dark Side is running the predator prey study? Great... when do we start assigning Empire nick names?
Post by: hunter399 on August 29, 2021, 08:56:43 PM
I'm not so sure on the predator/prey Project.I'm not sure how much weight I would put in the dark side comment. There is great concern with biased science, this is not an accusation (yet). There has to be accountability and standards. I also agree with others on this thread that remember the game department. The face of the wdfw has changed as have many of their funding sources. They now serve a much broader constituency than the hook and bullet crowd, failure to recognize this will only delay progress where it can be made.He's the lead on the predator prey project.Great to read all the opinions. Thanks all. One correction. Brian Kertsen is NOT in the enforcement program.
Ya my bad... i had to look that up he is a Bio, i belive in the Snoqualmie area... ill have to own that.
So The Dark Side is running the predator prey study? Great... when do we start assigning Empire nick names?
If I was a betting man,
I'd bet that the project will show a perfect predator /prey balance with unicorns and rainbows everywhere.
May or may not happen ,but that my opinion.
Post by: bearpaw on August 30, 2021, 07:42:19 AM
He's the lead on the predator prey project.Great to read all the opinions. Thanks all. One correction. Brian Kertsen is NOT in the enforcement program.
Ya my bad... i had to look that up he is a Bio, i belive in the Snoqualmie area... ill have to own that.
So The Dark Side is running the predator prey study? Great... when do we start assigning Empire nick names?
:yeah: Of course they are, that's their main interest, they are predator worshippers! The head of the USFWS went to work for a leading anti-hunting group after she transplanted wolves from Canada into the lower 48. :dunno: :dunno:
Post by: wolfbait on September 13, 2021, 08:22:14 AM
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2021, 03:15:04 PM
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2021, 03:24:34 PM
Post by: Rob on September 14, 2021, 04:16:14 PM
I see a bunch of offended wdfw folks who are indignant with the sherrif dpt encroaching on what they see is their turf. With some snarky emails between each other
While I dont disagree with many opinions on this thread, I am not seeing a smoking gun in the emails. Just some territorial folks mad someone is doing something they should be doing.
What am I missing (not being sarcastic-honest question)
Post by: KFhunter on September 14, 2021, 04:24:38 PM
Post by: buckfvr on September 14, 2021, 04:43:30 PM
Post by: Nwgunner on September 16, 2021, 09:33:16 PM
I read the emails and I guess I am missing something.
I see a bunch of offended wdfw folks who are indignant with the sherrif dpt encroaching on what they see is their turf. With some snarky emails between each other
While I dont disagree with many opinions on this thread, I am not seeing a smoking gun in the emails. Just some territorial folks mad someone is doing something they should be doing.
What am I missing (not being sarcastic-honest question)
I have to take training annually on communication with company devices like laptops, phone, email etc... The key tenant in this training is to do no harm to my company. Examples are revealing trade secrets, incriminating ourselves with government regulators, making disparaging comments about our competitors, etc... its all on record. Most of all be professional.
For example, lets say I work in oil and gas. In an email I will get fired if it is revealed to the public that I say that the EPA (Klickitat county sheriff) is a bunch of morons that don't know what they are talking about. Inslee is an Autocrat that wants to destroy America and my industry, and that my company's emissions will continue because I am in control and the others are the dark side. As a rep for this company that is very bad PR.
These folks are supposed to be in charge of stewarding our states game populations and they are supposed to be professionals. Im almost positive they take the same type of code of conduct training I do.
Maybe what they said isn't a blatant violation of any fish and game standards, maybe it is just territorial? But i believe that those emails do reveal how petty and one sided these people are. And in the court of public opinion that's a start. Just depends on who is listening.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 17, 2021, 07:57:04 AM
I read the emails and I guess I am missing something.
I see a bunch of offended wdfw folks who are indignant with the sherrif dpt encroaching on what they see is their turf. With some snarky emails between each other
While I dont disagree with many opinions on this thread, I am not seeing a smoking gun in the emails. Just some territorial folks mad someone is doing something they should be doing.
What am I missing (not being sarcastic-honest question)
I took this the same way.
The general populace in two counties is not happy about the current predator problems and the locally elected leaders are doing something about it.
WDFW is not recognizing the issue, is blaming the landowners (particularly calling out hobby farms) and offering zero assistance.
I don't necessary see illegal activity here - more like a spotlight on general laziness, arrogance and (maybe) dereliction of duty.
Post by: KopperBuck on September 17, 2021, 09:00:01 AM
Post by: Hankbest17 on September 17, 2021, 06:46:20 PM
For a long time it was a conspiracy theory that there was a group of severe anti hunters within WDFW. It’s come to light lately that it isn’t as much of a conspiracy anymore as it is a fact, it’s even been mentioned on the Meat Eater podcasts several times.
Makes me wonder if it was these same WDFW employees who were involved with the wolf depredation records in Olympia being changed from confirmed depredations by wdfw biologists, conflict specialists and sheriffs officers in Stevens County to Unknown cause of death in 2019
Do you know what the Meat Eater podcast was that mentioned this? I’d like to give it a listen.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 17, 2021, 06:47:25 PM
For a long time it was a conspiracy theory that there was a group of severe anti hunters within WDFW. It’s come to light lately that it isn’t as much of a conspiracy anymore as it is a fact, it’s even been mentioned on the Meat Eater podcasts several times.
Makes me wonder if it was these same WDFW employees who were involved with the wolf depredation records in Olympia being changed from confirmed depredations by wdfw biologists, conflict specialists and sheriffs officers in Stevens County to Unknown cause of death in 2019
Do you know what the Meat Eater podcast was that mentioned this? I’d like to give it a listen.
Same
Post by: Limhangerslayer on September 17, 2021, 08:49:54 PM
episode 252 A sideways thumb on 2020For a long time it was a conspiracy theory that there was a group of severe anti hunters within WDFW. It’s come to light lately that it isn’t as much of a conspiracy anymore as it is a fact, it’s even been mentioned on the Meat Eater podcasts several times.
Makes me wonder if it was these same WDFW employees who were involved with the wolf depredation records in Olympia being changed from confirmed depredations by wdfw biologists, conflict specialists and sheriffs officers in Stevens County to Unknown cause of death in 2019
Do you know what the Meat Eater podcast was that mentioned this? I’d like to give it a listen.
Same
Post by: Hankbest17 on September 18, 2021, 06:04:31 AM
Post by: Special T on September 19, 2021, 11:18:40 AM
episode 252 A sideways thumb on 2020For a long time it was a conspiracy theory that there was a group of severe anti hunters within WDFW. It’s come to light lately that it isn’t as much of a conspiracy anymore as it is a fact, it’s even been mentioned on the Meat Eater podcasts several times.
Makes me wonder if it was these same WDFW employees who were involved with the wolf depredation records in Olympia being changed from confirmed depredations by wdfw biologists, conflict specialists and sheriffs officers in Stevens County to Unknown cause of death in 2019
Do you know what the Meat Eater podcast was that mentioned this? I’d like to give it a listen.
Same
I remeber listening to that podcast but dont remeber that part. Do you remeber about how far in it was?