Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Other Big Game => Topic started by: Tom Reichner on May 04, 2009, 08:44:15 PM

Title: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: Tom Reichner on May 04, 2009, 08:44:15 PM: I saw this ram at the winter feeding station near Naches. I don't know what causes this, nor have I seen this condition in other sheep. Any ideas as to what this condition is?
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: bucklucky on May 04, 2009, 08:49:02 PM: Uhhh....Horn Rot ?? :chuckle:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: 7mag. on May 04, 2009, 08:49:53 PM: Boy, he does not look healthy at all. I'm just guessing, but, old age?
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: luvtohnt on May 04, 2009, 08:51:15 PM: I had seen that guy a couple of years ago #39, and thought someone had shot him. At least I know he is still alive. I always thought it was just broken but I am far from an expert on rams.

Brandon
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: actionshooter on May 04, 2009, 08:58:55 PM: Sure looks like he's in sad shape whatever it is :o
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: bow4elk on May 04, 2009, 09:03:54 PM: looks like physical damage or possibly a health deficiency that affects the hardness/make up of his horns. Thus if they aren't of normal density and durability they would be subject to damage during all the rutting and head-butting festivities. Just a thought :dunno:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: PolarBear on May 04, 2009, 09:11:27 PM: Herpes simplex #10.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: shanevg on May 04, 2009, 09:16:55 PM: ... waiting for Pope... assuming he knows the answer! :)
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: Bookworm on May 04, 2009, 09:55:41 PM: I know very little about sheep but is that what they call sinusitis? You read about it in some of the hunting mags. :dunno:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 04, 2009, 09:58:16 PM: radioactive eartag... :dunno:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: jager on May 05, 2009, 12:49:29 AM: Here's a very tiny pic of him that I took while on my sheep hunt. I even talked about him in my story....Pretty cool!

This photo was taken right after I shot my ram.
I took the larger rams twin.

I would be very curious to find out the cause!

I'm no expert on sheep disease but I would say most likely not sinusitis. You would see more evidence of other sheep being affected. It is fatal.
This would be a serious problem for the herd.
While living in Nevada I used to hear this diagnosis from hunters and other "experts"
In hindsight I think most were mis-diagnosed. The harsh desert conditions are very hard on the horns. Cracked... Chunks and complete sections of horn missing.
My :twocents:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: bowhunterforever on May 05, 2009, 01:06:00 AM: Old age :dunno: Someone must know?
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: boneaddict on May 05, 2009, 06:31:37 AM: Hes not old, so I would rule that out. Other than getting his ass kicked, I thought he might be missing something nutritionally. Thats what happens to your fingernails etc when you are missing something. :dunno: He's been around a couple years.

Speaking of disease, I saw hairloss in a hefer calf last night. It was nasty looking.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on May 05, 2009, 06:56:53 AM: I'm going with nutritional or genetic deficiency weakening the horn. I have seen a couple of old rams that died after their horn sheaths broke through and got an infection in the bony core. Looks like he may have survived and compartmented off the cores - looks like they aren't getting any blood supply. Just guessing.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: Dipsnort on May 05, 2009, 01:18:30 PM: Close to Naches you say? I'm going with "physical affliction related to heavy meth use". :P
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: huntnphool on May 05, 2009, 05:13:21 PM: Kinda looks to be the same as this one. :chuckle:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: JBar on May 05, 2009, 05:21:40 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on May 05, 2009, 06:31:37 AM
Other than getting his ass kicked

I'm with Bone on this one, I think he got his ass whooped or took a tumble. It is weird though!
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 06, 2009, 08:41:04 AM: Quote from: Dipsnort on May 05, 2009, 01:18:30 PM
Close to Naches you say? I'm going with "physical affliction related to heavy meth use". :P

Agreed. Looks like Meth to me... :chuckle:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: popeshawnpaul on May 06, 2009, 11:34:35 AM: I think he is just a fighter. He is banging those horns fighting hard. Once one cracks, it eventually tears off if they keep fighting. Once one is gone, if they keep fighting it weakens the other one and now it's cracked because the one horn now is taking all the hitting. This ram is in prime fighting age and I'm guessing that's how he lost it. Like a fingernail, I have heard of fungus or rot of the horns and maybe that is happening to this one. My guess is most of the damage is done from fighting though. It's actually pretty common. I've seen it in rams all over from every heard.

Here are some examples:
(https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10250/n695488546_989581_8362.jpg)

This ram is cracked right where he fights. If he kept fighting on that spot it would have developed a hole and eventually fell off. This ram no longer fights or butts heads and you can see it's grown out now that he is past his prime.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountryhunting.net%2Fphoto-gallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10169%2FBug_eye.jpg&hash=ecd0b8f7eb9beb3f3fc63f8311dad5f9af3a7ba9)

Both of the rams on the right have problems like this on their horns. The second ram from the right actually has a big hole on his right horn. You can barely see it from this picture.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.backcountryhunting.net%2Fphoto-gallery%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10169%2F4_Rams.jpg&hash=7748d5a9e5c4cb8cd027f3629374387adec90cfe)

When i get home I'll post more pictures of rams that have holes in the horns. My best guess is they get the crack and that lets the horn rot in if that contributes to the problem.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: popeshawnpaul on May 06, 2009, 12:13:15 PM: By the way, I've seen green growing in the horn cracks before. I think when it rains water accumulates in there and it begins to get green. I think the crack happens and then the rot. Then it further cracks from the weakening.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 06, 2009, 12:26:52 PM: OK, I am going to take the gospel from the pope on this one :). Pope knows his sheep...
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: klickman on May 06, 2009, 01:11:50 PM: Quote from: Dipsnort on May 05, 2009, 01:18:30 PM
Close to Naches you say? I'm going with "physical affliction related to heavy meth use". :P

Thats hilarious. HAHAHA
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: starbailey on May 25, 2009, 10:53:13 AM: Ive seen this ram several times in the last 7-8 years and we caught him in a bighorn capture in 05, I think. We put him back out as older rams don't transplant very well. He was missing big chunks out of his horns at that time and when I saw him again that summer he had "slipped" the one horn. If air gets to the membrane separating the core and horn it usually rots and the slip occurs.
I saw one ram down in Oregon that had slipped both horns and still lived 4-5 years be for he died of old age. He would have new horn growth every year but because he was an older ram it would only amount to less than an inch each year. He was an odd looking critter.
Bryan
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: 270Shooter on May 25, 2009, 02:13:45 PM: I saw him this winter a few times.
(http://C:\Documents and Settings\Shelly\My Documents\My Pictures\deer and hunting\1 horn crop 800.JPG)
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: elkoholic1 on July 10, 2009, 09:31:35 AM: im thinking meth or crack :dunno:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: whacker1 on July 10, 2009, 10:25:24 AM: defintely Meth :chuckle:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: pat2bear on July 10, 2009, 10:37:50 AM: Wow! Didn't know we had such a bad meth reputation in Naches. :dunno: Although we are only 10 miles from crackima. :chuckle:
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: ICEMAN on July 11, 2009, 06:47:04 AM: Actually it is a condition known as "visuadunghorn". Not many mature Rams develop the condition, but the ones that do are more suspectable to disease, lack status in the herd, and often suffer from horn envy.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: 180-GRAIN on July 12, 2009, 06:53:12 PM: Well he will defenitly die of old age, any smart hunter wont take him.
Title: Re: What's wrong with this Bighorn Ram?
Post by: tonymoe on July 13, 2009, 08:44:08 AM: Quote from: Bookworm on May 04, 2009, 09:55:41 PM
I know very little about sheep but is that what they call sinusitis? You read about it in some of the hunting mags. :dunno:

+1