Post by: usmc74 on February 16, 2022, 07:12:08 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on February 16, 2022, 07:18:09 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 16, 2022, 09:44:41 PM
Post by: huntnnw on February 16, 2022, 09:50:55 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 16, 2022, 10:17:04 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 16, 2022, 10:28:11 PM
BS if they are allowed
Can’t wait! Have scope ready to go! 300 yds here I come!
Post by: cem3434 on February 16, 2022, 10:30:07 PM
BS if they are allowed
I don't care one way or another, but why are you calling BS? Are you a traditional hunter that only uses iron sights? IMHO there is no difference between a 1x or red dot scope versus a William's peep or the globe sights that have crosshairs. Once peeps and fiber optics were allowed, I think it created an advantage for many muzzy hunters. It increased how far many can shoot, especially in low light or the dark timber. :twocents:
Post by: huntnnw on February 17, 2022, 01:24:37 AM
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
Post by: raydog on February 17, 2022, 06:09:50 AM
thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
:yeah:
Post by: HntnFsh on February 17, 2022, 06:12:56 AM
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
Post by: raydog on February 17, 2022, 06:16:47 AM
Ive never messed with a 1x scope but have been doing some reading. Several guys removed their 1x scope, some mid season because the field of view and low light view being greatly diminished.
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
The ones I looked at come in various moa sizes
Post by: huntnnw on February 17, 2022, 06:59:43 AM
Ive never messed with a 1x scope but have been doing some reading. Several guys removed their 1x scope, some mid season because the field of view and low light view being greatly diminished.
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
when I was prepping for my UT hunt red dots were on my radar, the only problem then was a dot small enough that it didnt look like a big fiber optic covering half the deer. Maybe thats gotten better now. A gun builder had a brand new vortex made just for UT legal and let me use it. The dot in it was precise , clear and tiny! no obstruction of target at all. I coulda shot even further with a turret 350 wasnt even outta the question. I killed my deer at 227 yards with it longer than I woulda ever shot with my peep.
I could see through that scope in lower light further than a peep at much closer distance due to eye focusing though small peep.
Post by: usmc74 on February 17, 2022, 07:00:38 AM
Ive never messed with a 1x scope but have been doing some reading. Several guys removed their 1x scope, some mid season because the field of view and low light view being greatly diminished.
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
I have a Leupold red dot scope with a 1 MOA dot. That is 1" at 100 yards. My fiber optic front site covers about 1 foot at 100 yards
Post by: jrebel on February 17, 2022, 07:12:51 AM
thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
Can you please point me in the direction of a 1x scope with repeatable / reliable turrets....asking for a friend. :rolleyes:
I have two 1x scopes that were almost impossible to find....almost as hard as finding Varget during the pandemic. I have shot a muzzleloader with one of these scopes and they are no better than my williams peep set up. I can tell you this.....The crosshairs at 300 yards cover a deer sized animal vitals. People shooting 300 yards with these scopes are doing the same as when they had peeps / open sights.....putting lead in the air so they have a prayer. Now at 100 yards and even 150 yards....they do help with clarity and accuracy. But I see that as a good thing. I can shoot 200 yards with my peep and I would suffice to say that will be my max with one of my scopes. I don't see it changing much in our state as far as harvest numbers. I do however see a bunch of people complain about this while using 4-32 nighforce scopes that help then snipe deer at 1500 yards. :dunno:
Post by: cem3434 on February 17, 2022, 07:32:42 AM
Ive never messed with a 1x scope but have been doing some reading. Several guys removed their 1x scope, some mid season because the field of view and low light view being greatly diminished.
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
I have a Leupold red dot scope with a 1 MOA dot. That is 1" at 100 yards. My fiber optic front site covers about 1 foot at 100 yards
Get a smaller fiber optics pin for your front site. :twocents:
Post by: cem3434 on February 17, 2022, 07:41:54 AM
thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
I dont have a dog in the fight, I just dont see how an un-magnified scope provides any advantage. I agree muzzy hunting should be traditional, which means no peeps, fiber sites, 209 ignition, etc., but we are already so far from that now. If you want traditional hunting, you should be pushing to use an old smooth bore with iron sites and a cap and ball. :twocents:
As far as distance, I would question anybody's decision to be shooting an animal at 300 yards with a 1x scope or other legal sites. That is not an ethical shot ever with a muzzleloader, period.
Post by: hunter399 on February 17, 2022, 08:33:31 AM
As Always though ,what's ethical and what people do or try are to different things.thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
I dont have a dog in the fight, I just dont see how an un-magnified scope provides any advantage. I agree muzzy hunting should be traditional, which means no peeps, fiber sites, 209 ignition, etc., but we are already so far from that now. If you want traditional hunting, you should be pushing to use an old smooth bore with iron sites and a cap and ball. :twocents:
As far as distance, I would question anybody's decision to be shooting an animal at 300 yards with a 1x scope or other legal sites. That is not an ethical shot ever with a muzzleloader, period.
Honestly technology is not being considered in our regulations, That's everything from E-bikes to cell trail cams.
Many other states are laying down the law for certain technologies and as always Washington is late to the party.
As far as scopes on muzzle loaders goes ,I say whatever ,I'm tired of giving a @$!# .More opportunities for hunters the better. People will shoot muzzle loader out to 300 yards ,open site or scope anyway . So why should anybody give a rats @$! I what kind of sites they have.
I'm already thinking about crossbow durring muzzy season, So don't think for one second that these regulation changes will make hunting easier . Cause I'm already thinking about how my participation will change.
As the saying goes,can't beat'em,join'em then.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 17, 2022, 09:06:03 AM
Would you apply the same to archery? Recurve/longbow with wood shaft arrows?thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
I dont have a dog in the fight, I just dont see how an un-magnified scope provides any advantage. I agree muzzy hunting should be traditional, which means no peeps, fiber sites, 209 ignition, etc., but we are already so far from that now. If you want traditional hunting, you should be pushing to use an old smooth bore with iron sites and a cap and ball. :twocents:
As far as distance, I would question anybody's decision to be shooting an animal at 300 yards with a 1x scope or other legal sites. That is not an ethical shot ever with a muzzleloader, period.
Post by: hunter399 on February 17, 2022, 09:45:32 AM
I'm my opinion ,we are at a pretty good balance of technology and fair chase vs ethical right now.Would you apply the same to archery? Recurve/longbow with wood shaft arrows?thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
I dont have a dog in the fight, I just dont see how an un-magnified scope provides any advantage. I agree muzzy hunting should be traditional, which means no peeps, fiber sites, 209 ignition, etc., but we are already so far from that now. If you want traditional hunting, you should be pushing to use an old smooth bore with iron sites and a cap and ball. :twocents:
As far as distance, I would question anybody's decision to be shooting an animal at 300 yards with a 1x scope or other legal sites. That is not an ethical shot ever with a muzzleloader, period.
No need to go backwards to caveman ,stick and rock.
Some of the proposal for archery ,are more for range finding,before the shot,finding game animal after the shot.
Which I don't see any issue with that.
Now like using dogs to find wounded game.
1) people will use it as an excuse to use dog in aid of hunting before the shot.
2) people may ruin somebody's hunt plans ,when they have there dog out there for two days after the shot looking for a wounded animal that they most likely are not gonna find.
Public land and hunters trying to get away from each other in our short seasons is already a crap shoot. But hey let's add some dogs in there ,that will make it better.
FYI TOO, If we had longer seasons for deer and Elk ,I would not have one problem with dogs to find wounded game.
Most states that do allow it also have a lot longer seasons.
And the perception of hunters to non-hunters is not good.
Just watched a YouTube video of poachers using dogs at night to hunt deer.
Post by: cem3434 on February 17, 2022, 06:04:11 PM
Post by: hunter399 on February 17, 2022, 06:14:37 PM
:yeah: I would generally agree with hunter399 on this. I don't think we want to go backwards, but I'm not for making the equipment so good that the average guy thinks he can shoot an elk at 100 yards with a bow or 300 yards with a muzzy. My only argument against technology, is how many animals are mortality wounded due to people being overly confident in their abilities because there equipment can do it, but they can not?That is true....
I'm really over it with technology and hunting.
Like said above I'm all for more opportunities,and I'll just partake in those technologies myself then.
I'm all abored the crazy train.....
Post by: baldopepper on February 17, 2022, 06:55:10 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 17, 2022, 06:57:53 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on February 17, 2022, 07:15:47 PM
Post by: JakeLand on February 22, 2022, 05:28:12 AM
Thanks Jake
Post by: huntnnw on February 22, 2022, 06:49:26 AM
Personally hate to see the scope thing start. Started slow in Utah then progressed to what it is now-a single shot high powered rifle hunt. Switched our Utah hunts over to modern because there as many hunters out on the muzzle loader hunt as the rifle hunt. Guns most are using there are a long way from being a traditional muzzle loader and I don't see why they need a separate early season. Miss the old days when hunting skills were more important than the gear you used to get your animal.
:yeah: exactly where its going here. Permit hunts with 100 apps will go to 150 and so on as it gets easier and closer to rifles
Post by: lazydrifter on February 22, 2022, 02:31:27 PM
Has anyone mounted a 1X scope with a 1” tube on a knight disc extreme? I just mounted one with the 2 piece bases from knight and low rings and it seems like it’s still mounted high off the barrel. If you have what bases and rings are you usingHere's a picture of my Disc Extreme with a 1X scope mounted on a set of Leupold QR rings. They are lows. The QR bases are the same ones that fit a Remington 541. I like this setup because you can pop the scope off if needed. And by having extra rings you can set up different scopes. I have a Leupold 3-9x40 mounted on an extra set of rings that can go on if I am hunting in a firearm restricted area during rifle season. Plus a nice scope comes in handy when you're doing load development.
Thanks Jake
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51898036846_8074976e34_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2n541fJ)
Post by: JakeLand on February 22, 2022, 04:09:06 PM
Post by: Damnimissed on February 23, 2022, 07:28:15 PM
Thanks lazydrifter ! That’s a lot lower sitting then mine
Did you get that Nikon from that guy on Rokslide?
Post by: JakeLand on February 23, 2022, 08:38:24 PM
Post by: hollymaster on February 23, 2022, 09:34:26 PM
Personally hate to see the scope thing start. Started slow in Utah then progressed to what it is now-a single shot high powered rifle hunt. Switched our Utah hunts over to modern because there as many hunters out on the muzzle loader hunt as the rifle hunt. Guns most are using there are a long way from being a traditional muzzle loader and I don't see why they need a separate early season. Miss the old days when hunting skills were more important than the gear you used to get your animal.Amen.
Post by: hunter399 on February 24, 2022, 06:32:05 AM
I've tried on this site anyway to tell the muzzleloader community,Personally hate to see the scope thing start. Started slow in Utah then progressed to what it is now-a single shot high powered rifle hunt. Switched our Utah hunts over to modern because there as many hunters out on the muzzle loader hunt as the rifle hunt. Guns most are using there are a long way from being a traditional muzzle loader and I don't see why they need a separate early season. Miss the old days when hunting skills were more important than the gear you used to get your animal.Amen.
Not to go down this path,and before you know it ,you will be combined with modern.
They be better off fighting for longer seasons and more antlerless oppertunitty. Then going down the scope road.
Time will tell what the results will be.
Post by: James on February 24, 2022, 11:24:33 AM
My one exception is I would like to see a provision for older people to be able to used scoped muzzys. My father's eyes are no where near good enough to be able to hunt without telescopic sights and I think we need to make provisions to keep old men in hunting camps. Things like this are literally 2 of the 3 "R's"
65+?, 70+? I don't know exactly what to set the threshold to, but somewhere around there.
I find it highly unlikely a few old dudes with scopes on their muzzys will ruin muzzy season. Young dudes? They definitely would.
Post by: Platensek-po on February 24, 2022, 11:30:29 AM
I would like to keep to primitive sights for muzzy hunting in Washington. I really think it is the simplest way to keep everything in check.
My one exception is I would like to see a provision for older people to be able to used scoped muzzys. My father's eyes are no where near good enough to be able to hunt without telescopic sights and I think we need to make provisions to keep old men in hunting camps. Things like this are literally 2 of the 3 "R's"
65+?, 70+? I don't know exactly what to set the threshold to, but somewhere around there.
I find it highly unlikely a few old dudes with scopes on their muzzys will ruin muzzy season. Young dudes? They definitely would.
Or just get a drs note from an eye dr. If it’s a medical issue not an age thing I think exemptions for medical stuff should be accommodated
Post by: Bob33 on February 24, 2022, 11:57:04 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/accessibility/eligibility-requirements-disability-status
Visual impairment qualifications
Blindness is a central visual acuity that does not exceed 20/200 in the better eye with corrective lenses, or the widest diameter of the visual field does not exceed twenty degrees, or
Low Vision is a severe loss of visual acuity ranging from 20/70 to 20/200 while retaining some visual function, or
Visual impairments may include, but are not limited to: Albinism, Aniridia, Aphakia, Cataracts, Glaucoma, Macular Degeneration, or other similar diagnosed permanent disease or disorder.
Not included: Hyperopia, Myopia, Astigmatism, and Presbyopia type conditions.
Post by: James on February 24, 2022, 07:24:09 PM
An example would be in their 20's they could see well enough to kill a buck with open sights at 100 yards, but now at 70 years old it's 30 yards. And with old knees trying to get a 70 year old man to crawl up to a buck that close compounds it.
I think the only concern I have for this is slippery slope. I definitely don't want able bodied people using scopes on muzzys, at least not with our current amount of animals and seasons!
Post by: LayMdown on March 22, 2022, 03:09:27 AM
Ive never messed with a 1x scope but have been doing some reading. Several guys removed their 1x scope, some mid season because the field of view and low light view being greatly diminished.
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
I have a Leupold red dot scope with a 1 MOA dot. That is 1" at 100 yards. My fiber optic front site covers about 1 foot at 100 yards
Get a smaller fiber optics pin for your front site. :twocents:
Post by: LayMdown on March 22, 2022, 03:14:34 AM
Ive never messed with a 1x scope but have been doing some reading. Several guys removed their 1x scope, some mid season because the field of view and low light view being greatly diminished.
I guess I need to take a look through 1.
I think I may actually be more intrigued by a red dot. No experience with them either. Wonder if the dot get huge when looking at something at distance? Or are they adjustable in size?
Any feed back?
Hold 6 O'clock and put your target point of impact just directly above your fiber optic sight, I've shot a lot better with this method of shooting peep sights then trying to cover up the target.
I have a Leupold red dot scope with a 1 MOA dot. That is 1" at 100 yards. My fiber optic front site covers about 1 foot at 100 yards
Post by: BigTines on March 28, 2022, 08:14:47 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on March 28, 2022, 08:20:16 AM
When do we find out the decision on 1x scopes?
April 8th :dunno: maybe
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/development/weapons-and-other-harvest-restrictions
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on March 28, 2022, 09:12:40 AM
Post by: JakeLand on March 28, 2022, 12:09:36 PM
Not worried if 1x scopes pass. It really only helps those that have bad vision and can't shoot peeps. As I get older I can see a time where I won't be able to use the peep. It's still a short range, under powered, one shot rifle, that's slow to reload. Besides, muzzy season is short. Part of game management is reducing seasons if too many animals are taken. If suddenly muzzy kills are higher, maybe cut into that season a little more.it’s already only 7 days how could it get any shorter !!
Post by: JakeLand on April 06, 2022, 05:40:33 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on April 06, 2022, 08:06:36 PM
Got word from a little bird in the nest that no scopes this year
Now how could that be. :rolleyes: Haven't had the vote yet. :dunno: :(
Post by: JakeLand on April 06, 2022, 08:35:28 PM
ha vote no they made the decisionGot word from a little bird in the nest that no scopes this year
Now how could that be. :rolleyes: Haven't had the vote yet. :dunno: :(
Post by: hunter399 on April 07, 2022, 04:44:24 AM
There was some muzzle loader group that didn't want scopes. Can't remember the name.ha vote no they made the decisionGot word from a little bird in the nest that no scopes this year
Now how could that be. :rolleyes: Haven't had the vote yet. :dunno: :(
But they made comments at the Commission meeting about no scopes . :dunno:
Post by: Surfr716 on April 07, 2022, 05:36:02 AM
I'm my opinion ,we are at a pretty good balance of technology and fair chase vs ethical right now.Would you apply the same to archery? Recurve/longbow with wood shaft arrows?thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
I dont have a dog in the fight, I just dont see how an un-magnified scope provides any advantage. I agree muzzy hunting should be traditional, which means no peeps, fiber sites, 209 ignition, etc., but we are already so far from that now. If you want traditional hunting, you should be pushing to use an old smooth bore with iron sites and a cap and ball. :twocents:
As far as distance, I would question anybody's decision to be shooting an animal at 300 yards with a 1x scope or other legal sites. That is not an ethical shot ever with a muzzleloader, period.
No need to go backwards to caveman ,stick and rock.
Some of the proposal for archery ,are more for range finding,before the shot,finding game animal after the shot.
Which I don't see any issue with that.
Now like using dogs to find wounded game.
1) people will use it as an excuse to use dog in aid of hunting before the shot.
2) people may ruin somebody's hunt plans ,when they have there dog out there for two days after the shot looking for a wounded animal that they most likely are not gonna find.
Public land and hunters trying to get away from each other in our short seasons is already a crap shoot. But hey let's add some dogs in there ,that will make it better.
FYI TOO, If we had longer seasons for deer and Elk ,I would not have one problem with dogs to find wounded game.
Most states that do allow it also have a lot longer seasons.
And the perception of hunters to non-hunters is not good.
Just watched a YouTube video of poachers using dogs at night to hunt deer.
i would disagree with using dogs to track wounded game. anything to help recover animals should be fair game as opposed to wasting an animal. also having watched how efficient finding game with dogs is i cant say anything about them that isnt positive. ive seen quite a few animals that would have been lost if not for a good tracking dog.
Post by: huntnnw on April 07, 2022, 05:58:46 AM
Got word from a little bird in the nest that no scopes this year
Now how could that be. :rolleyes: Haven't had the vote yet. :dunno: :(
how could they not of voted yet? regs are going to be out in what like 10 days?
Post by: hunter399 on April 07, 2022, 06:31:01 AM
I'm my opinion ,we are at a pretty good balance of technology and fair chase vs ethical right now.Would you apply the same to archery? Recurve/longbow with wood shaft arrows?thats BS also if you dont think theres a advantage to a 1x versus a peep sight! I used a custom dot Vortex on a UT hunt and it was by far and away easier to aim at longer distances, by far more accurate and easier to see in low light. Then add in a rangefinder put a turret on it and and eliminate any holdover and can I could shoot 300 yards at a elk easily.
everyone wants everything easier. Use a rifle if you want scopes and longer shots. Next thing you know we will be UT or NM with 700 yard muzzleloaders completely defeating the purpose and reason of muzzy seasons.
I dont have a dog in the fight, I just dont see how an un-magnified scope provides any advantage. I agree muzzy hunting should be traditional, which means no peeps, fiber sites, 209 ignition, etc., but we are already so far from that now. If you want traditional hunting, you should be pushing to use an old smooth bore with iron sites and a cap and ball. :twocents:
As far as distance, I would question anybody's decision to be shooting an animal at 300 yards with a 1x scope or other legal sites. That is not an ethical shot ever with a muzzleloader, period.
No need to go backwards to caveman ,stick and rock.
Some of the proposal for archery ,are more for range finding,before the shot,finding game animal after the shot.
Which I don't see any issue with that.
Now like using dogs to find wounded game.
1) people will use it as an excuse to use dog in aid of hunting before the shot.
2) people may ruin somebody's hunt plans ,when they have there dog out there for two days after the shot looking for a wounded animal that they most likely are not gonna find.
Public land and hunters trying to get away from each other in our short seasons is already a crap shoot. But hey let's add some dogs in there ,that will make it better.
FYI TOO, If we had longer seasons for deer and Elk ,I would not have one problem with dogs to find wounded game.
Most states that do allow it also have a lot longer seasons.
And the perception of hunters to non-hunters is not good.
Just watched a YouTube video of poachers using dogs at night to hunt deer.
i would disagree with using dogs to track wounded game. anything to help recover animals should be fair game as opposed to wasting an animal. also having watched how efficient finding game with dogs is i cant say anything about them that isnt positive. ive seen quite a few animals that would have been lost if not for a good tracking dog.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on April 07, 2022, 06:35:31 AM
Got word from a little bird in the nest that no scopes this year
Now how could that be. :rolleyes: Haven't had the vote yet. :dunno: :(
how could they not of voted yet? regs are going to be out in what like 10 days?
Have you kept up with the commissioner meetings schedule?
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2022/7-9april2022-fwc-agenda
Post by: BigTines on April 07, 2022, 04:25:19 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 07, 2022, 05:09:29 PM
So what’s the official status of the 1x scope rule? Is it officially a NO or is the jury still out?officially tomorrow night
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 08, 2022, 05:01:08 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 08, 2022, 05:29:38 PM
From what I just saw, get your 1x scopes mounted.yep it looks that way , maybe my bird was wrong
Post by: idahohuntr on April 08, 2022, 05:46:23 PM
Post by: Hairhunter on April 08, 2022, 06:11:20 PM
Post by: Hairhunter on April 08, 2022, 06:12:01 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 08, 2022, 06:47:18 PM
Post by: Hairhunter on April 08, 2022, 06:57:09 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 08, 2022, 07:04:33 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 08, 2022, 07:05:04 PM
Post by: Hairhunter on April 08, 2022, 07:07:08 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on April 08, 2022, 07:18:38 PM
Had to wait for the vote at the endlet me guess, 5-4 vote!?
Post by: idahohuntr on April 08, 2022, 07:31:26 PM
I think 6-3 or 7-2...I didn't pay close attention after it was clear it was going to fail. Anderson and Lehmkuhl were yes, others were no...not sure on thorburn.Had to wait for the vote at the endlet me guess, 5-4 vote!?
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 08, 2022, 08:55:04 PM
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Post by: Rigby416 on April 09, 2022, 01:35:47 PM
Post by: Special T on April 09, 2022, 02:00:34 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 09, 2022, 02:11:11 PM
I'm sorry too! As an over 70 year old with bad eyes, this sucks.The use of scopes on a muzzleloader should be part of the disabled permit process, not some thing everybody can do.
Post by: buckfvr on April 09, 2022, 02:35:08 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 09, 2022, 02:42:30 PM
I'm sorry too! As an over 70 year old with bad eyes, this sucks.The use of scopes on a muzzleloader should be part of the disabled permit process, not some thing everybody can do.
Spoken from someone that probably never fired a one power scope on a muzzy. From a guy who has......other than clarity, it really has no other benefit. If anyone want to challenge that, I'm happy to meet you at the range and have you shoot 400 yards with my muzzy and the one power scope on it. I will laugh my way all the way to the moon and back watching 50% of the rounds miss a 4x8 piece of plywood. Even at 100 yards I would be the vast majority of shooters couldn't keep a group sub 2 MOA and that will only open up as you extend the range. I would argue I shoot as well with my peep site, so should we ban those as well and maybe go back to looking down the barrel? The notion that the 1x scope is going to make someone a better shot at longer ranges is simply a false narrative based on a persons bias or personal beliefs.
Post by: jrebel on April 09, 2022, 02:46:17 PM
Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process. When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it. Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive. I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning. :twocents:
So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around????? Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.
Post by: baldopepper on April 09, 2022, 02:57:22 PM
Post by: pd on April 09, 2022, 03:02:10 PM
Spoken from someone that probably never fired a one power scope on a muzzy. From a guy who has......other than clarity, it really has no other benefit. If anyone want to challenge that, I'm happy to meet you at the range and have you shoot 400 yards with my muzzy and the one power scope on it. I will laugh my way all the way to the moon and back watching 50% of the rounds miss a 4x8 piece of plywood. Even at 100 yards I would be the vast majority of shooters couldn't keep a group sub 2 MOA and that will only open up as you extend the range. I would argue I shoot as well with my peep site, so should we ban those as well and maybe go back to looking down the barrel? The notion that the 1x scope is going to make someone a better shot at longer ranges is simply a false narrative based on a persons bias or personal beliefs.
:yeah:
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 09, 2022, 04:24:41 PM
Im sorry jrebel, I do not agree with you. I have shot one with a one power scope. In fact, as many can attest on here, i sold it last year. Absolutely, positively makes a 100 yeRd shot easier. Do t assume you know everything about me…Ive never met youI'm sorry too! As an over 70 year old with bad eyes, this sucks.The use of scopes on a muzzleloader should be part of the disabled permit process, not some thing everybody can do.
Spoken from someone that probably never fired a one power scope on a muzzy. From a guy who has......other than clarity, it really has no other benefit. If anyone want to challenge that, I'm happy to meet you at the range and have you shoot 400 yards with my muzzy and the one power scope on it. I will laugh my way all the way to the moon and back watching 50% of the rounds miss a 4x8 piece of plywood. Even at 100 yards I would be the vast majority of shooters couldn't keep a group sub 2 MOA and that will only open up as you extend the range. I would argue I shoot as well with my peep site, so should we ban those as well and maybe go back to looking down the barrel? The notion that the 1x scope is going to make someone a better shot at longer ranges is simply a false narrative based on a persons bias or personal beliefs.
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Post by: idahohuntr on April 09, 2022, 06:33:07 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 10, 2022, 12:00:12 PM
Post by: GASoline71 on April 12, 2022, 11:55:59 AM
Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process. When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it. Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive. I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning. :twocents:
So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around????? Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.
Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want. My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.
If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.
Gary
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2022, 12:32:55 PM
Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process. When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it. Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive. I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning. :twocents:
So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around????? Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.
Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want. My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.
If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.
Gary
I respect others opinions.....though I don't agree nor do I understand why so many people are opposed to advancing the sport. In my mind, the decision to accept or decline advances....should be based on whether or not it will substantially increase harvest numbers. The reality is this....with all the advancements in our sport, the harvest numbers have remained relatively stable. A 1x scope on a muzzleloader (in my opinion), is not going to increase harvest numbers for muzzleloaders. It may increase participation in that user group, which is not a bad thing because it will take away from the modern or archery season. This will help disperse hunters and make the woods less crowded for the busier user groups.....(though I don't think it would be noticeable to most).
My point being....that simply allowing 1x scopes will not increase harvest numbers, thus in my mind it should be a welcome advancement in the sport.
For the guys / gals that say "no" for the only reason that they don't like to see advancement / specific to technology in our hunting sports.....I don't agree with this stance. Advancing our sport is not always a bad thing....it is simply change and most people are uncomfortable with change.
Post by: Farmer72 on April 12, 2022, 12:49:34 PM
If you don't like 1X optics or 209 primers that don't change anything you don't have to use them. But that is just my opinion.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 12, 2022, 12:56:47 PM
Making a muzzleloader into a single shot rifle makes no sense to me. If you want to use a rifle then hunt modern.Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process. When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it. Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive. I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning. :twocents:
So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around????? Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.
Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want. My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.
If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.
Gary
I respect others opinions.....though I don't agree nor do I understand why so many people are opposed to advancing the sport. In my mind, the decision to accept or decline advances....should be based on whether or not it will substantially increase harvest numbers. The reality is this....with all the advancements in our sport, the harvest numbers have remained relatively stable. A 1x scope on a muzzleloader (in my opinion), is not going to increase harvest numbers for muzzleloaders. It may increase participation in that user group, which is not a bad thing because it will take away from the modern or archery season. This will help disperse hunters and make the woods less crowded for the busier user groups.....(though I don't think it would be noticeable to most).
My point being....that simply allowing 1x scopes will not increase harvest numbers, thus in my mind it should be a welcome advancement in the sport.
For the guys / gals that say "no" for the only reason that they don't like to see advancement / specific to technology in our hunting sports.....I don't agree with this stance. Advancing our sport is not always a bad thing....it is simply change and most people are uncomfortable with change.
We don’t have the opportunity in this state to allow muzzleloader technology to increase.
I also think electronic bow sights should not be allowed.
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Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2022, 01:12:17 PM
Making a muzzleloader into a single shot rifle makes no sense to me. If you want to use a rifle then hunt modern.Everyone knows worsening eyesight, hearing loss, joint pain and muscle loss are part of the age-related natural process. When ya cant do it anymore, ya just cant do it. Current archery equipment and muzzleloaders are anything but primitive. I cant believe how many grown men want to be accommodated to make things easier for themselves, regardless of reasoning. :twocents:
So as you age, you are not allowed to use a walker, cane, wheel chair or other mobility device to help you move around????? Maybe you should just sit in your bed and die because you not 21 again.
Aging hunters have options to hunt modern season with whatever magnification scope they want. My eyes suck, therefore I just have to get closer using open sights on my muzzleloader. I don't see any benefit of a 1x or red dot scope if you still have to get closer with aging eyes.
If it were up to me there wouldn't be any modern 209 primers used in muzzleloaders either... but here we are.
Gary
I respect others opinions.....though I don't agree nor do I understand why so many people are opposed to advancing the sport. In my mind, the decision to accept or decline advances....should be based on whether or not it will substantially increase harvest numbers. The reality is this....with all the advancements in our sport, the harvest numbers have remained relatively stable. A 1x scope on a muzzleloader (in my opinion), is not going to increase harvest numbers for muzzleloaders. It may increase participation in that user group, which is not a bad thing because it will take away from the modern or archery season. This will help disperse hunters and make the woods less crowded for the busier user groups.....(though I don't think it would be noticeable to most).
My point being....that simply allowing 1x scopes will not increase harvest numbers, thus in my mind it should be a welcome advancement in the sport.
For the guys / gals that say "no" for the only reason that they don't like to see advancement / specific to technology in our hunting sports.....I don't agree with this stance. Advancing our sport is not always a bad thing....it is simply change and most people are uncomfortable with change.
We don’t have the opportunity in this state to allow muzzleloader technology to increase.
I also think electronic bow sights should not be allowed.
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Please give me an example of how a 1x scope turns a muzzleloader into a single shot rifle?? This is the inherent bias I think people have and it is 100% unfounded / unsupported by fact. Have you shot a 1x scope before...red dot or scope? Do any of your current hunting rifles have 1x scopes on them? If the 1x scope was that magical, why do they not mas produce them and sell them like hot cakes?
I ask somewhat rhetorically....but am also very curious what I am missing. I do have a couple 1x scopes and can definitively tell you my muzzy is not a single shot rifle with it.
As for the bow site....well, I can make an argument both ways. I really don't have a dog in the fight, and yes, I am an avid bow hunter. It won't make harvest numbers increase so I wouldn't mind if it was adopted. I also wouldn't buy one because my handheld rangefinder works fine. I range items from my stands and know what range to shoot before the animal gets there. If I'm stalking an animal, I range the animal and then items close by to give me a rough estimate. I keep my single pin site set at 30 and can shoot 0-40 with very little hold differences so I just wouldn't spend the money on one. Anything over 40, I should have plenty of time to range them with my handheld....otherwise I shouldn't be shooting at them in the first place.
Back to the 1x scopes though because that is what we were talking about first.
Post by: lonedave on April 12, 2022, 06:16:12 PM
Post by: Damnimissed on April 12, 2022, 08:30:52 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 12, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
Side note: I listened to the Friday afternoon meeting today. We are doomed with the 3 new appointments sprinkled into Baker and Smith. None of them have any idea what the North American model conservation is, how we recovered game populations of what the heck their mandate is…. I came away with the sense that they feel it is their duty to continue to strip away hunting opportunity and cement the new mandate. Now go hug a predator and feel better about yourself. The ungulates are doomed. The tribes better step up to the plate.
Don’t believe what I am selling? Listen to the commission ask questions about wolves and grazing allotments. Paraphrasing here but it was something like “can’t we just not put the cattle by the wolves?” Keep them separate and distant? Should we try non lethal methods only on. WDFW owned land?” It was a hard listen but a necessary listen. Then I went back to planning my move out of state.
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Post by: h2ofowlr on April 12, 2022, 09:59:12 PM
1x scopes and red dots = quick target acquisition and much more precisely placed shots. This equals more dead elk. I would’ve had a good handful more of mature bulls if I had a 1x scope, 100%. Even with a front globe, you still have to line up and center front and rear sights. Removing that element is advantageous. We don’t need any more advancements in muzzleloader season. You’re not gonna change my mind.
May also mean less crippled or loss animals. I know I have had a bad shot on a nice buck with my muzzy.
Post by: huntnnw on April 12, 2022, 10:14:37 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2022, 10:34:39 PM
1x scopes and red dots = quick target acquisition and much more precisely placed shots. This equals more dead elk. I would’ve had a good handful more of mature bulls if I had a 1x scope, 100%. Even with a front globe, you still have to line up and center front and rear sights. Removing that element is advantageous. We don’t need any more advancements in muzzleloader season. You’re not gonna change my mind.
Precise shot placement…..maybe!! But is that a bad thing?? Quicker sight acquisition, you couldn’t be more wrong. If this was the cas more brush guns would be wielding scopes. Open sights offer quicker site acquisition for the average hunter that doesn’t shoulder a scopes rifle on a regular basis.
Because I know you will argue that point….let’s assume your correct. We aren’t talking a significant amount of time. We are talking seconds…..likely less than a couple seconds. How is that an advantage that’s gonna make a significant difference.
I’m not trying to change your mind. I’m merely looking for a reasonable argument to not allow them. Most the arguments I hear are nothing more than, My opinion is….. but they have no facts or reasons otherwise. What the arguments do have are usually false propaganda such as “scopes have quicker sight acquisition,” which is simply not true.
Post by: jrebel on April 12, 2022, 10:38:51 PM
that is BS! that means more people getting involved in muzzy seasons then adding a dot and shooting further cause they think they can and ending up in more wounded animals. Some on here must have never shot a 1x dot scope ! if you don't think you can shoot further than you havent used one. Leave muzzy alone and the way it is you need better sights etc take up rifle hunting..unbelievable
What’s so unbelievable. Most people can’t hit a pie plate at 200 yards with a modern rifle with a 3-9 power scope and you want one to believe a 1x scope is gonna make the average hunter a sniper with a muzzleloader.
To me that’s unbelievable. And for the record…..I shoot a 1x scopes muzzy at the range and hope to take a bear this year with it. My max range is 150-180 yards depending on conditions. I can do that with my peep site so to me there really isn’t much of an advantage.
Post by: huntnnw on April 12, 2022, 11:08:03 PM
Post by: GWP on April 13, 2022, 12:06:07 AM
The new one is 209, and it has a scope rail on it. Yes, if scopes are allowed I will put one on it. And yes, they are an advantage. I will take it.
Do I like the rule change? Nope.
I have had handguns without a dot scope then put one on in 1x and 1.5x. Faster and more precise. Absolutely. Hands down. The only thing better is maybe a 2x or more scope.
If those got allowed I could see me putting an EER scope in the ‘scout’ position on the barrel.
Post by: Curly on April 13, 2022, 07:06:56 AM
I've been against all the muzzleloader rule changes in the last 10 years. I wish the rules were still how they were when I started muzzleloading in the late '80s. But with that said, I did buy a new CVA inline for my birthday in January............and when scopes become legal, I will buy a scope for it.
Post by: Bullkllr on April 13, 2022, 07:27:45 AM
The other advantage a scope would provide is much longer range. You could have a ballistic reticle or use dials to compensate for drop. A good shooter could probably make 300 yard kills on elk with the right setup, practice, and ability.This pretty much sums up my view. It's been a slippery slope, imo. What's next; preloaded charge/bullet containers that load from the breech? Why not?
I've been against all the muzzleloader rule changes in the last 10 years. I wish the rules were still how they were when I started muzzleloading in the late '80s.
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2022, 07:33:33 AM
The other advantage a scope would provide is much longer range. You could have a ballistic reticle or use dials to compensate for drop. A good shooter could probably make 300 yard kills on elk with the right setup, practice, and ability.This pretty much sums up my view. It's been a slippery slope, imo. What's next; preloaded charge/bullet containers that load from the breech? Why not?
I've been against all the muzzleloader rule changes in the last 10 years. I wish the rules were still how they were when I started muzzleloading in the late '80s.
Can you guys please provide me all the scope manufacturers that make a 1x scope (not red dot). Then narrow the field by ones that come with dial turrets and or graduated reticles. I would like to buy a couple for when it is finally approved.
Post by: steeleywhopper on April 13, 2022, 08:40:33 AM
Bring on the 1x scope as far as I'm concerned.
Post by: GWP on April 13, 2022, 08:49:55 AM
Post by: full choke on April 13, 2022, 08:55:39 AM
Might as well try and get everything legalized while we can still hunt. Our new Antihunter group WDFW will soon have us looking for deer and elk turds to boil as hunting will soon be banned if Insleeze has his ways.
Bring on the 1x scope as far as I'm concerned.
I am opposed to the 1x scopes, but you are not wrong. I honestly do not think we will be hunting in WA in ten years.
Post by: Tenkara on April 13, 2022, 09:51:36 AM
scope last year. I have not mounted it up yet but the only advantage I see looking thru it is that everything is sharp again but I really doubt It's going to change my range any.
Post by: James on April 13, 2022, 01:06:59 PM
In my mind the big advantage of 1x scopes/red dots would be improved shots in the "golden hour" and tough lighting/contrast situations. I have a larger rear peep sight on my muzzy than is ideal for accuracy because to be able to take a shot closer to first/last light as well as tough lighting situations. Smaller peep might be more precise, but if the light and contrast is low you can't send a round down range.
The other advantage a scope would provide is much longer range. You could have a ballistic reticle or use dials to compensate for drop. A good shooter could probably make 300 yard kills on elk with the right setup, practice, and ability.
I've been against all the muzzleloader rule changes in the last 10 years. I wish the rules were still how they were when I started muzzleloading in the late '80s. But with that said, I did buy a new CVA inline for my birthday in January............and when scopes become legal, I will buy a scope for it.
Williams sells a ballistic retrical for front hood sights.
Post by: GASoline71 on April 13, 2022, 01:57:11 PM
"Muzzleloader" and "Archery" seasons, where any doo-dad you wanna have to increase your advantage can be clipped, glued, bolted, welded, etc. to their weapon of choice.
Then we can have a "primitive weapon" season, that stays with how "non modern" muzzleloaders and trad archery weapons are used.
Gary
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 13, 2022, 02:12:38 PM
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Post by: Tenkara on April 13, 2022, 02:17:17 PM
I am really surprised that there are people that still think that people are dumb enough to believe that scopes, regardless of magnification, don’t greatly increase accuracy. Please take the time to do research and not just be an internet/web expert. Ask Utah residents what they think of scopes on muzzleloaders. You guys who think scopes on muzzy’s are ok need to do your homework and actually shoot a gun with a scope on it and one without. It will take you 5 minutes to realize that it is a huge advantage and that its way different than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot.Nice job with the name calling. :tup:
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Post by: GWP on April 13, 2022, 02:24:11 PM
Anyone else have trouble using the 'etched' dot or crosshair scopes? I see two images, one brighter than the other.
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 13, 2022, 02:25:15 PM
No one is calling anyone names. Someone is just pointing out that scopes are an advantage, and people who think they aren’t an advantage are just not very experienced in shooting with and without them or are mad because they got voted down again.I am really surprised that there are people that still think that people are dumb enough to believe that scopes, regardless of magnification, don’t greatly increase accuracy. Please take the time to do research and not just be an internet/web expert. Ask Utah residents what they think of scopes on muzzleloaders. You guys who think scopes on muzzy’s are ok need to do your homework and actually shoot a gun with a scope on it and one without. It will take you 5 minutes to realize that it is a huge advantage and that its way different than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot.Nice job with the name calling. :tup:
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Post by: bobcat on April 13, 2022, 02:36:29 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2022, 03:55:13 PM
No one is calling anyone names. Someone is just pointing out that scopes are an advantage, and people who think they aren’t an advantage are just not very experienced in shooting with and without them or are mad because they got voted down again.I am really surprised that there are people that still think that people are dumb enough to believe that scopes, regardless of magnification, don’t greatly increase accuracy. Please take the time to do research and not just be an internet/web expert. Ask Utah residents what they think of scopes on muzzleloaders. You guys who think scopes on muzzy’s are ok need to do your homework and actually shoot a gun with a scope on it and one without. It will take you 5 minutes to realize that it is a huge advantage and that its way different than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot.Nice job with the name calling. :tup:
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"Dumb" enough....LOL "Inexperienced"...LOL
You are killing me. I'm neither and would put my shooting skills against most on this site. I've got more money in optics today than most will have in their lifetime. I also shoot and collect a lot of lever guns with open sites. I own multiple 1x scopes and have shot with them as well as with peep sites and can definitively say that a 1x scope does not extend a guys effective range. Are they clearer...yes, but isn't that the point? Could they make a guy more accurate within their effective range.....yes, but isn't that the point? Will they turn a muzzleloader into a "single shot rifle", as asserted in an earlier post....isn't that basically what a muzzleloader is anyway??
What a 1x scope will not do....It will not turn a muzzleloader into an effective long range firearm. It will not increase harvest numbers overall. It will not take away the ability to not use a 1x if you choose to roll old school. It will not take away birthdays and it will not make you any less of a man for choosing not to use one.
Now....to your point about being "mad" for being "voted down".....LOL Again...you killing me smalls!!! I primarily hunt with archery for deer and elk. My secondary is rifle. I do enjoy shooting and hunting with muzzy's but to make the assertion I am mad because I got voted down is not accurate. You sir are showing your true colors by name calling and make assertions that are factually inaccurate.
I like others on this site believe that 1x scopes can be a good adjunct to muzzleloader hunters. It can help with people that don't see as well and can't focus on the front and rear site like they used to. It assist in making more accurate shots on game within an effective range, leading to less lost or wounded game. It can be another tool in the tool box for those who wish to use it.....and if you don't want to, that would be ok as well. See....Where we differ if I don't believe my way is the only way. I believe that tools are tools and some may want to use them, why some choose not to....and I'm ok with that. You sir love to impose your will on others and then call them dumb for having a differing opinion.
Lastly....If I thought a 1x scope would significantly increase harvest numbers, I would be against it. I am against variable power scope on muzzy's for the sole reason it does provide an advantage beyond what I believe (my opinion) to be reasonable for a primitive weapon season and could turn certain muzzy's in to long(er) range killers.
Post by: GWP on April 13, 2022, 04:24:05 PM
"than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You come on a 'Hunting' forum and state this?
Yeah, ether you got an 'early start to the evening' or you are looking for an argument by making statements like that.
Disagreeing is one thing, disparaging is something else.
Oh wait! My turn!
"Jump off the keyboard, go upstairs, and help your Mother with the dishes!"
:IBCOOL: :hello: :chuckle:
Post by: idahohuntr on April 13, 2022, 05:24:57 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 13, 2022, 05:28:20 PM
I have been on this hunting forum for a very long time. Just get tired of all the misinformation spread by people who dont know what they are talking about. I will say it again, if you think that a scope does not add an advantage to a muzzleloader, you are wrong."than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You come on a 'Hunting' forum and state this?
Yeah, ether you got an 'early start to the evening' or you are looking for an argument by making statements like that.
Disagreeing is one thing, disparaging is something else.
Oh wait! My turn!
"Jump off the keyboard, go upstairs, and help your Mother with the dishes!"
:IBCOOL: :hello: :chuckle:
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Post by: Jimmy33 on April 13, 2022, 05:32:16 PM
Still not sure where the name calling accusation comes in…anyways, i can’t understand how someone with your so called experience can honestly say that a scope doesn’t add to the advantage of a muzzleloader. Im sorry if I and others disagree. When you make a statement like that, your experience doesnt mean much to me.No one is calling anyone names. Someone is just pointing out that scopes are an advantage, and people who think they aren’t an advantage are just not very experienced in shooting with and without them or are mad because they got voted down again.I am really surprised that there are people that still think that people are dumb enough to believe that scopes, regardless of magnification, don’t greatly increase accuracy. Please take the time to do research and not just be an internet/web expert. Ask Utah residents what they think of scopes on muzzleloaders. You guys who think scopes on muzzy’s are ok need to do your homework and actually shoot a gun with a scope on it and one without. It will take you 5 minutes to realize that it is a huge advantage and that its way different than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot.Nice job with the name calling. :tup:
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"Dumb" enough....LOL "Inexperienced"...LOL
You are killing me. I'm neither and would put my shooting skills against most on this site. I've got more money in optics today than most will have in their lifetime. I also shoot and collect a lot of lever guns with open sites. I own multiple 1x scopes and have shot with them as well as with peep sites and can definitively say that a 1x scope does not extend a guys effective range. Are they clearer...yes, but isn't that the point? Could they make a guy more accurate within their effective range.....yes, but isn't that the point? Will they turn a muzzleloader into a "single shot rifle", as asserted in an earlier post....isn't that basically what a muzzleloader is anyway??
What a 1x scope will not do....It will not turn a muzzleloader into an effective long range firearm. It will not increase harvest numbers overall. It will not take away the ability to not use a 1x if you choose to roll old school. It will not take away birthdays and it will not make you any less of a man for choosing not to use one.
Now....to your point about being "mad" for being "voted down".....LOL Again...you killing me smalls!!! I primarily hunt with archery for deer and elk. My secondary is rifle. I do enjoy shooting and hunting with muzzy's but to make the assertion I am mad because I got voted down is not accurate. You sir are showing your true colors by name calling and make assertions that are factually inaccurate.
I like others on this site believe that 1x scopes can be a good adjunct to muzzleloader hunters. It can help with people that don't see as well and can't focus on the front and rear site like they used to. It assist in making more accurate shots on game within an effective range, leading to less lost or wounded game. It can be another tool in the tool box for those who wish to use it.....and if you don't want to, that would be ok as well. See....Where we differ if I don't believe my way is the only way. I believe that tools are tools and some may want to use them, why some choose not to....and I'm ok with that. You sir love to impose your will on others and then call them dumb for having a differing opinion.
Lastly....If I thought a 1x scope would significantly increase harvest numbers, I would be against it. I am against variable power scope on muzzy's for the sole reason it does provide an advantage beyond what I believe (my opinion) to be reasonable for a primitive weapon season and could turn certain muzzy's in to long(er) range killers.
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Post by: Jimmy33 on April 13, 2022, 05:35:50 PM
Folks...the vote wasnt even close and wdfw staff pushed it hard. There will be no 1x scopes for muzzy seasons now or a decade from now. Fortunately, for those who really want to use 1x scopes...have at it in the modern firearm season...nothing stopping you from using a 1x, red dot or variable power scope on a muzzy in those seasons.Yes…that!
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Post by: Russ McDonald on April 13, 2022, 05:37:35 PM
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Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2022, 05:46:52 PM
Still not sure where the name calling accusation comes in…anyways, i can’t understand how someone with your so called experience can honestly say that a scope doesn’t add to the advantage of a muzzleloader. Im sorry if I and others disagree. When you make a statement like that, your experience doesnt mean much to me.No one is calling anyone names. Someone is just pointing out that scopes are an advantage, and people who think they aren’t an advantage are just not very experienced in shooting with and without them or are mad because they got voted down again.I am really surprised that there are people that still think that people are dumb enough to believe that scopes, regardless of magnification, don’t greatly increase accuracy. Please take the time to do research and not just be an internet/web expert. Ask Utah residents what they think of scopes on muzzleloaders. You guys who think scopes on muzzy’s are ok need to do your homework and actually shoot a gun with a scope on it and one without. It will take you 5 minutes to realize that it is a huge advantage and that its way different than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot.Nice job with the name calling. :tup:
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"Dumb" enough....LOL "Inexperienced"...LOL
You are killing me. I'm neither and would put my shooting skills against most on this site. I've got more money in optics today than most will have in their lifetime. I also shoot and collect a lot of lever guns with open sites. I own multiple 1x scopes and have shot with them as well as with peep sites and can definitively say that a 1x scope does not extend a guys effective range. Are they clearer...yes, but isn't that the point? Could they make a guy more accurate within their effective range.....yes, but isn't that the point? Will they turn a muzzleloader into a "single shot rifle", as asserted in an earlier post....isn't that basically what a muzzleloader is anyway??
What a 1x scope will not do....It will not turn a muzzleloader into an effective long range firearm. It will not increase harvest numbers overall. It will not take away the ability to not use a 1x if you choose to roll old school. It will not take away birthdays and it will not make you any less of a man for choosing not to use one.
Now....to your point about being "mad" for being "voted down".....LOL Again...you killing me smalls!!! I primarily hunt with archery for deer and elk. My secondary is rifle. I do enjoy shooting and hunting with muzzy's but to make the assertion I am mad because I got voted down is not accurate. You sir are showing your true colors by name calling and make assertions that are factually inaccurate.
I like others on this site believe that 1x scopes can be a good adjunct to muzzleloader hunters. It can help with people that don't see as well and can't focus on the front and rear site like they used to. It assist in making more accurate shots on game within an effective range, leading to less lost or wounded game. It can be another tool in the tool box for those who wish to use it.....and if you don't want to, that would be ok as well. See....Where we differ if I don't believe my way is the only way. I believe that tools are tools and some may want to use them, why some choose not to....and I'm ok with that. You sir love to impose your will on others and then call them dumb for having a differing opinion.
Lastly....If I thought a 1x scope would significantly increase harvest numbers, I would be against it. I am against variable power scope on muzzy's for the sole reason it does provide an advantage beyond what I believe (my opinion) to be reasonable for a primitive weapon season and could turn certain muzzy's in to long(er) range killers.
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Let me help you with your reading comprehension. I took the below bolded text directly out of my post. Clearly there is an advantage....posted below....but will it change overall harvest numbers....NO. I took another portion of my post to help you further...it is posted below the "Advantage" and is labeled "What a 1x scope will not do."
ADVANTAGE:
Are they clearer...yes, but isn't that the point? Could they make a guy more accurate within their effective range.....yes, but isn't that the point? Will they turn a muzzleloader into a "single shot rifle", as asserted in an earlier post....isn't that basically what a muzzleloader is anyway??
WHAT A 1X SCOPE WILL NOT DO:
What a 1x scope will not do....It will not turn a muzzleloader into an effective long range firearm. It will not increase harvest numbers overall. It will not take away the ability to not use a 1x if you choose to roll old school. It will not take away birthdays and it will not make you any less of a man for choosing not to use one.
If you are willing to prove me wrong....Please show me a three hundred yard target with a 1x scope mounted to a Washington state legal Muzzy. Hell, show me your group at 200 yards. Prove me wrong.
Post by: Jimmy33 on April 13, 2022, 05:56:47 PM
We are going to have to agree to disagree. Ive lost interest in this argument as we are just going around in circles. The last things I will say is that it will increase harvest because it is clearer, it helps pinpoint accuracy, and, from my experience, my groups were much better with a 1 power scope than with a peep-therefore, in my opinion, it offers an advantage and so much of one that I am glad it did not pass. In no way am I saying that it is a long range weapon. But there is a big difference between 175 yards and 100. Happy hunting!Still not sure where the name calling accusation comes in…anyways, i can’t understand how someone with your so called experience can honestly say that a scope doesn’t add to the advantage of a muzzleloader. Im sorry if I and others disagree. When you make a statement like that, your experience doesnt mean much to me.No one is calling anyone names. Someone is just pointing out that scopes are an advantage, and people who think they aren’t an advantage are just not very experienced in shooting with and without them or are mad because they got voted down again.I am really surprised that there are people that still think that people are dumb enough to believe that scopes, regardless of magnification, don’t greatly increase accuracy. Please take the time to do research and not just be an internet/web expert. Ask Utah residents what they think of scopes on muzzleloaders. You guys who think scopes on muzzy’s are ok need to do your homework and actually shoot a gun with a scope on it and one without. It will take you 5 minutes to realize that it is a huge advantage and that its way different than shooting a gun on a video game which is probably the only gun you have ever shot.Nice job with the name calling. :tup:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"Dumb" enough....LOL "Inexperienced"...LOL
You are killing me. I'm neither and would put my shooting skills against most on this site. I've got more money in optics today than most will have in their lifetime. I also shoot and collect a lot of lever guns with open sites. I own multiple 1x scopes and have shot with them as well as with peep sites and can definitively say that a 1x scope does not extend a guys effective range. Are they clearer...yes, but isn't that the point? Could they make a guy more accurate within their effective range.....yes, but isn't that the point? Will they turn a muzzleloader into a "single shot rifle", as asserted in an earlier post....isn't that basically what a muzzleloader is anyway??
What a 1x scope will not do....It will not turn a muzzleloader into an effective long range firearm. It will not increase harvest numbers overall. It will not take away the ability to not use a 1x if you choose to roll old school. It will not take away birthdays and it will not make you any less of a man for choosing not to use one.
Now....to your point about being "mad" for being "voted down".....LOL Again...you killing me smalls!!! I primarily hunt with archery for deer and elk. My secondary is rifle. I do enjoy shooting and hunting with muzzy's but to make the assertion I am mad because I got voted down is not accurate. You sir are showing your true colors by name calling and make assertions that are factually inaccurate.
I like others on this site believe that 1x scopes can be a good adjunct to muzzleloader hunters. It can help with people that don't see as well and can't focus on the front and rear site like they used to. It assist in making more accurate shots on game within an effective range, leading to less lost or wounded game. It can be another tool in the tool box for those who wish to use it.....and if you don't want to, that would be ok as well. See....Where we differ if I don't believe my way is the only way. I believe that tools are tools and some may want to use them, why some choose not to....and I'm ok with that. You sir love to impose your will on others and then call them dumb for having a differing opinion.
Lastly....If I thought a 1x scope would significantly increase harvest numbers, I would be against it. I am against variable power scope on muzzy's for the sole reason it does provide an advantage beyond what I believe (my opinion) to be reasonable for a primitive weapon season and could turn certain muzzy's in to long(er) range killers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Let me help you with your reading comprehension. I took the below bolded text directly out of my post. Clearly there is an advantage....posted below....but will it change overall harvest numbers....NO. I took another portion of my post to help you further...it is posted below the "Advantage" and is labeled "What a 1x scope will not do."
ADVANTAGE:
Are they clearer...yes, but isn't that the point? Could they make a guy more accurate within their effective range.....yes, but isn't that the point? Will they turn a muzzleloader into a "single shot rifle", as asserted in an earlier post....isn't that basically what a muzzleloader is anyway??
WHAT A 1X SCOPE WILL NOT DO:
What a 1x scope will not do....It will not turn a muzzleloader into an effective long range firearm. It will not increase harvest numbers overall. It will not take away the ability to not use a 1x if you choose to roll old school. It will not take away birthdays and it will not make you any less of a man for choosing not to use one.
If you are willing to prove me wrong....Please show me a three hundred yard target with a 1x scope mounted to a Washington state legal Muzzy. Hell, show me your group at 200 yards. Prove me wrong.
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Post by: pickardjw on April 13, 2022, 06:24:30 PM