Post by: deadyote on March 11, 2022, 08:30:53 PM
Post by: MADMAX on March 11, 2022, 08:49:17 PM
Another $100 when you apply and you’ll have 2
Post by: deadyote on March 11, 2022, 08:54:14 PM
Post by: MADMAX on March 11, 2022, 09:01:02 PM
Didn’t get drawn
Bought one this year
Now have 2
If we don’t get drawn
Next year will have 2
Then will buy another and put in with 3
I don’t see you get a point unless you buy one
You can see that on my FWP when you search your info
Some info
https://www.gohunt.com/content/insider/tips/montana-point-system-breakdown
Post by: grundy53 on March 12, 2022, 12:37:55 AM
So if I don't get drawn this year, ill have that second point? Or do you only get a point if you buy the preference point for $100?The only way you get points is buying them. If you don't buy the point and aren't selected you don't get a point.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on March 12, 2022, 11:44:15 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Stein on March 12, 2022, 12:28:07 PM
And if I remember right and you elect not to pay the preference point fee on your application then they don’t actually apply your currently held preference points.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I believe that is true since you lose your points if you don't buy one every year. It's not clear if you would lose those points before the draw or after though. If you don't draw you would lose them for sure.
The big question is whether the reverse odds will change or not. If it doesn't the only people that will buy points are those that don't understand or want to hunt for sure x years from now but don't care about this year or next.
If that doesn't change, I would expect a quick revision to the rule making it a true preference point draw or something similar.
Post by: jstone on March 16, 2022, 11:20:19 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2022, 11:32:32 AM
And if I remember right and you elect not to pay the preference point fee on your application then they don’t actually apply your currently held preference points.This is not correct. If you apply, your points are in play whether you buy another or not. If you have one point and elect to NOT buy a point at application time you will go into the draw with 1 point.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2022, 11:39:13 AM
So you can’t buy points until after the draw? I just want to buy a point this year.points only purchase period is post draw. You can purchase between July 1 through December 31. Do you currently hold any preference points Jstone?
Post by: jstone on March 16, 2022, 12:35:51 PM
Post by: jstone on March 16, 2022, 12:36:36 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2022, 12:43:36 PM
No points, I drew last year. Just buying points for Montana this year.ok good. They no longer allow you to buy points for consecutive years.
Post by: ninthunt on March 22, 2022, 03:14:28 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 22, 2022, 04:07:53 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on March 22, 2022, 04:11:31 PM
There are two tag pools within the NR quota. 75% go to point holders and in a preference point system those with the most points wins. They allocate 25% to zero point holders. As you can see last year there were enough people with 2 or more points to eat up most of the 75%. That left more tags in that 25% pool available to zero point guys than there were tags left for all you losers with 1pt (I was a 1pt loser last year :chuckle:). If you look at the number of folks who had 1 last year and will have 2 this year you'll see that once again your odds with 1pt will be worse than zero points. The new rules will start to fix this however since people can't as easily build points.
So don't buy a preference point if you drew last year. hmmm
Post by: bugs n bones on March 22, 2022, 04:22:45 PM
Post by: ninthunt on March 22, 2022, 04:37:03 PM
There are two tag pools within the NR quota. 75% go to point holders and in a preference point system those with the most points wins. They allocate 25% to zero point holders. As you can see last year there were enough people with 2 or more points to eat up most of the 75%. That left more tags in that 25% pool available to zero point guys than there were tags left for all you losers with 1pt (I was a 1pt loser last year :chuckle:). If you look at the number of folks who had 1 last year and will have 2 this year you'll see that once again your odds with 1pt will be worse than zero points. The new rules will start to fix this however since people can't as easily build points.
I don't see how this will be fixed until there isn't a set amount of allocation going towards those with 0 points. Seems like that will always skew the odds where it won't be advantageous to buy a point unless you're gunning to have two the following year.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 22, 2022, 04:39:41 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 22, 2022, 04:52:45 PM
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on March 22, 2022, 04:57:47 PM
Now I'm confusing myself. Looking at that above table, how can you have 9,894 successful applicants for 4,600 tags“Come home to hunt” and/or “Montana native NR”what am I missing?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 22, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
ahhhh. Do you know if they roll in the surplus landowner sponsored tags as well. Should be 1060 of those bad boys as well.Now I'm confusing myself. Looking at that above table, how can you have 9,894 successful applicants for 4,600 tags“Come home to hunt” and/or “Montana native NR”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on March 22, 2022, 05:20:00 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 22, 2022, 05:26:09 PM
No, I don’t even know if they’re including the 1st 2 I mentionedfair enough :chuckle:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: idaho guy on March 22, 2022, 05:39:10 PM
.I don't see how this will be fixed until there isn't a set amount of allocation going towards those with 0 points. Seems like that will always skew the odds where it won't be advantageous to buy a point unless you're gunning to have two the following year.
I doesn't need fixing :chuckle: They created the zero point pool when they initiated the preference point system giving people the ability to opt out of buying preference points. I like that idea. If you put into zero points pool you might have better odds this year but you will be stuck in the same situation of risking odds in zero points pool or buying a point the next year. If you buy a point this year and don't draw you will have 2 points next year and in the past would have been 100 percent to draw. You could go into the zero point pool and not draw for the next five years and you will never accumulate any preference points. If you buy points for the next 2 years you would be 100 percent to draw in the past. Zero point pool is a gamble every year-buying preference points give you a point where you theoretically would be guaranteed to draw. If current app trends continue 3 points might not be guaranteed but I think things will moderate and you should be guaranteed at 2 pp most years. Nothing needs fixing. I think the zero points draw odds go WAY down since everyone will see that the odds were a lot better last year. Not to mention they doubled the price of the preference point and gave guided hunters the ability to buy 2 per year. It would be interesting to see how many people change from buying the pp to the zero point pool?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 22, 2022, 05:45:29 PM
Post by: actionshooter on March 22, 2022, 06:02:58 PM
Post by: Stein on March 22, 2022, 06:43:34 PM
Now I'm confusing myself. Looking at that above table, how can you have 9,894 successful applicants for 4,600 tags“Come home to hunt” and/or “Montana native NR”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Might include youth combo tags in there as well and they are unlimited in addition to the above.
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on March 22, 2022, 06:44:36 PM
Come home to hunt are limited, I think something like 400 total. Native nonresident are unlimited thoughNow I'm confusing myself. Looking at that above table, how can you have 9,894 successful applicants for 4,600 tags“Come home to hunt” and/or “Montana native NR”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Might include youth combo tags in there as well and they are unlimited in addition to the above.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: BigCutty3 on March 22, 2022, 08:14:28 PM
Post by: idaho guy on March 22, 2022, 08:36:13 PM
Woah glad I read this. So I’ve got a question for you smart guys. My son has one point and doesn’t think he’ll have the time to hunt this fall, and I was going to just buy him a point after the draw but sounds like that’s no longer an option? Would his lowest odds to get drawn and keep his point then be to put him in this year and not buy another point, and hope he doesn’t get drawn and keep his point? Hope this makes sense, Thanks
If he bought a point last year AND applied you should be able to just buy a point this year. . If he just bought a point last year and you don’t apply this year he will lose all points. You can’t just buy a point in consecutive years you have to apply in one of 2 consecutive years. If he doesn’t want to hunt just apply with 1 and don’t buy a point he most likely won’t draw. That should give him ability to buy a second point next year and should draw with 2 points. I confused myself lol.
Post by: BigCutty3 on March 22, 2022, 08:46:47 PM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on March 27, 2022, 06:27:52 PM
Post by: MADMAX on March 27, 2022, 06:36:50 PM
Plus a point
Plus special permits
Post by: vandeman17 on March 27, 2022, 07:43:58 PM
Post by: hunter399 on March 27, 2022, 08:23:42 PM
Randy had a YouTube video about the Montana draw and mentioned the 75/25 rule and how the one point holders have the lowest odds for that year. I am still deciding if I am going just deer or deer and elk with permit app. Might have to do a cash out refi on my house
I watch that ,I think....
Your right 75/25 ....
Hi point holders getting about 75% and low point holder gettin 25% .
If you have 2 points you have less chance than those with 3 or 1 points.
Looked up vidya...
This one I watched.
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on March 27, 2022, 09:06:12 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220328/38478d9dd97b1d0ff0d8f14962906be8.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: vandeman17 on March 31, 2022, 09:01:55 AM
Post by: Stein on March 31, 2022, 09:13:03 AM
I would guess a bunch of people that understand the system don't buy a preference point. Hard to say what percent of the total that is these days, I would guess a bunch of people just buy it and don't pay much attention to changes year to year.
Post by: vandeman17 on March 31, 2022, 09:19:08 AM
I put in for a special draw for elk and decided to stop buying or applying for special deer draws. I'm stuck in no-man's land for elk and will probably burn them for the archery multi unit permit once I can convince my brother to buy a bow.
I would guess a bunch of people that understand the system don't buy a preference point. Hard to say what percent of the total that is these days, I would guess a bunch of people just buy it and don't pay much attention to changes year to year.
This is my guess/hope for 2022 but I think word will get out more for the future unless they change the language.
Post by: Stein on March 31, 2022, 09:22:40 AM
Post by: idaho guy on April 01, 2022, 05:28:50 PM
For those that applied, did you go with a preference point or not? I am doing my app today and likely will not buy a point. Trying to decide if I apply for an elk permit with my 6 bonus points or not as well
This was my question- how many people didn’t buy a preference point? I was thinking the odds in zero point pool would go way down as a lot more people wouldn’t buy points that ordinarily do. It might be good as separate thread with a poll? Anyways I put me and my son in as a group and we didn’t buy a point but ordinarily we always buy the point. If we don’t draw I can get the come home to hunt most likely as a surplus but put in with him since this a hunt we traditionally do together, he can only get the adult non res tag or nothing. I’m not sure if I would do the hunt without him. Who all didn’t buy a point? The odds in the low point pool were pretty well publicized everywhere so I’m thinking a lot of people opted out :dunno:
Post by: vandeman17 on April 01, 2022, 06:59:51 PM
Post by: sagerat on April 01, 2022, 07:16:36 PM
I put in for a special draw for elk and decided to stop buying or applying for special deer draws. I'm stuck in no-man's land for elk and will probably burn them for the archery multi unit permit once I can convince my brother to buy a bow.
I would guess a bunch of people that understand the system don't buy a preference point. Hard to say what percent of the total that is these days, I would guess a bunch of people just buy it and don't pay much attention to changes year to year.
Isn’t Montana’s system similar to ours for the special draws? Curious why you feel you’re in no mans land? Super difficult to draw for sure but it’s not really due to not enough points is how I see it?
Post by: grundy53 on April 01, 2022, 09:33:00 PM
For those that applied, did you go with a preference point or not? I am doing my app today and likely will not buy a point. Trying to decide if I apply for an elk permit with my 6 bonus points or not as wellI put in for a point because I didn't get drawn last year with one point and I didn't want to go in with one point again for obvious reasons. If I get drawn I'll have to reevaluate next year.
Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
Post by: Brushbuster on April 01, 2022, 11:38:24 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 02, 2022, 05:52:20 AM
Heck I even known about the point thing ,and I don't even hunt out of Washington.For those that applied, did you go with a preference point or not? I am doing my app today and likely will not buy a point. Trying to decide if I apply for an elk permit with my 6 bonus points or not as well
This was my question- how many people didn’t buy a preference point? I was thinking the odds in zero point pool would go way down as a lot more people wouldn’t buy points that ordinarily do. It might be good as separate thread with a poll? Anyways I put me and my son in as a group and we didn’t buy a point but ordinarily we always buy the point. If we don’t draw I can get the come home to hunt most likely as a surplus but put in with him since this a hunt we traditionally do together, he can only get the adult non res tag or nothing. I’m not sure if I would do the hunt without him. Who all didn’t buy a point? The odds in the low point pool were pretty well publicized everywhere so I’m thinking a lot of people opted out :dunno:
Well publicized might be an understatement. :chuckle:
Post by: vandeman17 on April 02, 2022, 07:24:04 AM
For those that applied, did you go with a preference point or not? I am doing my app today and likely will not buy a point. Trying to decide if I apply for an elk permit with my 6 bonus points or not as well
This was my question- how many people didn’t buy a preference point? I was thinking the odds in zero point pool would go way down as a lot more people wouldn’t buy points that ordinarily do. It might be good as separate thread with a poll? Anyways I put me and my son in as a group and we didn’t buy a point but ordinarily we always buy the point. If we don’t draw I can get the come home to hunt most likely as a surplus but put in with him since this a hunt we traditionally do together, he can only get the adult non res tag or nothing. I’m not sure if I would do the hunt without him. Who all didn’t buy a point? The odds in the low point pool were pretty well publicized everywhere so I’m thinking a lot of people opted out :dunno:
I have talked to a few guys who are on the train of thought that if they don’t draw this year and buy a point, they should draw next year when they buy another. That was my dilemma as well because if we don’t draw, we will be in this same position next year too.
Post by: idaho guy on April 02, 2022, 12:44:01 PM
For those that applied, did you go with a preference point or not? I am doing my app today and likely will not buy a point. Trying to decide if I apply for an elk permit with my 6 bonus points or not as well
This was my question- how many people didn’t buy a preference point? I was thinking the odds in zero point pool would go way down as a lot more people wouldn’t buy points that ordinarily do. It might be good as separate thread with a poll? Anyways I put me and my son in as a group and we didn’t buy a point but ordinarily we always buy the point. If we don’t draw I can get the come home to hunt most likely as a surplus but put in with him since this a hunt we traditionally do together, he can only get the adult non res tag or nothing. I’m not sure if I would do the hunt without him. Who all didn’t buy a point? The odds in the low point pool were pretty well publicized everywhere so I’m thinking a lot of people opted out :dunno:
I have talked to a few guys who are on the train of thought that if they don’t draw this year and buy a point, they should draw next year when they buy another. That was my dilemma as well because if we don’t draw, we will be in this same position next year too.
Exactly my thinking ha ha. That’s why I put in almost last day. I could see it becoming a perpetual decision forever. Gamble or go for guaranteed tags every other or even 3rd year. Quite a few people didn’t draw last year and bought a point this year so they will go in with 3 points in 2023
Post by: Wingin it on April 02, 2022, 01:49:26 PM
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on April 02, 2022, 02:36:50 PM
Post by: MADMAX on April 02, 2022, 02:49:51 PM
Wherever you go, their you are
Post by: dilleytech on April 04, 2022, 09:17:46 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on April 04, 2022, 10:29:36 AM
In theory it should keep those who just want a chance to draw, out of the pool with those who are making plans to hunt in the future. Whether it works that way or not remains to be seen. If you want to free play with no guarantee go no preference, if you want to mix in other hunts in-between years in montana i think the preference point game may be for you.
Post by: dreamingbig on April 04, 2022, 01:30:28 PM
The odds at 1 point were going to be the worst. 0 points the best option of you couldn’t get to the two point level or more. Next year 1 point might be better than zero.For those that applied, did you go with a preference point or not? I am doing my app today and likely will not buy a point. Trying to decide if I apply for an elk permit with my 6 bonus points or not as well
This was my question- how many people didn’t buy a preference point? I was thinking the odds in zero point pool would go way down as a lot more people wouldn’t buy points that ordinarily do. It might be good as separate thread with a poll? Anyways I put me and my son in as a group and we didn’t buy a point but ordinarily we always buy the point. If we don’t draw I can get the come home to hunt most likely as a surplus but put in with him since this a hunt we traditionally do together, he can only get the adult non res tag or nothing. I’m not sure if I would do the hunt without him. Who all didn’t buy a point? The odds in the low point pool were pretty well publicized everywhere so I’m thinking a lot of people opted out :dunno:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 04, 2022, 04:45:33 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 04, 2022, 06:14:45 PM
Post by: bugs n bones on April 04, 2022, 06:43:02 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 04, 2022, 06:50:52 PM
Post by: MADMAX on April 04, 2022, 06:55:14 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 04, 2022, 07:15:34 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on April 11, 2022, 11:09:08 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 11, 2022, 11:10:02 AM
So when do we think results will be out? Last year I think it was April 13 or 14th.April 20th exactly.
Post by: Shooter4 on April 11, 2022, 02:08:07 PM
Post by: Wingin it on April 11, 2022, 05:52:38 PM