Post by: WoodHacker on April 09, 2022, 04:37:30 PM
https://www.opb.org/article/2022/04/09/state-says-washington-s-wolf-population-grew-16-last-year/
(https://opb-opb-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/NKvyMrm7tpdB1JV8oveVLPPc_ug=/767x0/smart/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/opb/23Z4BPIZABHANAQQHNMQWIEXJA.jpg)
Post by: Dan-o on April 09, 2022, 04:47:43 PM
Post by: Buckjunkie on April 09, 2022, 04:57:50 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 09, 2022, 04:58:55 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 09, 2022, 05:07:32 PM
Great pic! I don’t think I would want to deal with that guy without some serious firepower.They run for the most part.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Crunchy on April 09, 2022, 05:25:38 PM
Post by: builtfordtough on April 09, 2022, 05:26:51 PM
Post by: pashok23 on April 09, 2022, 05:39:03 PM
I walked up on a pack on a fresh elk kill last year and they all took off running. They stayed a few hundred yards away howling because their meal was interrupted.thats cool to see
Post by: KFhunter on April 09, 2022, 06:39:28 PM
I walked up on a pack on a fresh elk kill last year and they all took off running. They stayed a few hundred yards away howling because their meal was interrupted.thats cool to see
The dead elk? Or the howling wolves?
It's only neat the first few times....
Post by: Crunchy on April 09, 2022, 07:03:34 PM
Post by: Crunchy on April 09, 2022, 07:05:58 PM
I walked up on a pack on a fresh elk kill last year and they all took off running. They stayed a few hundred yards away howling because their meal was interrupted.thats cool to see
they are bigger than I imagined.
Post by: Goshawk on April 09, 2022, 07:25:50 PM
Post by: Alan K on April 09, 2022, 07:42:29 PM
Post by: bugs n bones on April 10, 2022, 07:08:52 AM
Because wolves can regulate ungulate populations and we won't need human hunting anymore.bingo!
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 10, 2022, 12:02:11 PM
Because wolves can regulate ungulate populations and we won't need human hunting anymore.bingo!
Been saying this for over a decade.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 10, 2022, 01:06:37 PM
Because wolves can regulate ungulate populations and we won't need human hunting anymore.bingo!
Been saying this for over a decade.
And its becoming more obvious their Target numbers and breeding pairs goal was just lip service...foot in the door.
Only a matter of time before ungulate population survey's show numbers that can't sustain hunting opportunities for OTC tags.
Post by: buckfvr on April 10, 2022, 01:11:12 PM
Because wolves can regulate ungulate populations and we won't need human hunting anymore.bingo!
Been saying this for over a decade.
[/
And its becoming more obvious their Target numbers and breeding pairs goal was just lip service...foot in the door.
Only a matter of time before ungulate population survey's show numbers that can't sustain hunting opportunities for OTC tags.
And in some cases "ANY TAGS". Comes down to the agenda in place, delivery incoming.
Post by: bigmacc on April 10, 2022, 01:23:36 PM
:yeah: Thats exactly what all the liberals moving to the Methow are pushing, I've had them tell me to my face those exact words almost. :bash:Because wolves can regulate ungulate populations and we won't need human hunting anymore.bingo!
Post by: wolfbait on April 14, 2022, 06:54:33 AM
Wolves fit right in with the agenda of today, they are killing off our food.
Remember it only took 5 years for Montana, Idaho and Wyoming to delists, WDFW's own info states wolves started "migrating" into WA in 2002.
Under oath, Mech said wolves double in population each year, as most of you know by now WDFW bury their heads in the sand when it comes to documenting, confirming wolf packs, the USFWS played the same game with their wolf introduction into ID, MT and WY.
Where wolves are concerned, WDFW have lost all credibility.
Post by: KFhunter on April 14, 2022, 07:49:29 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 15, 2022, 02:13:44 PM
Post by: idaho guy on April 15, 2022, 03:10:49 PM
I think even a lot of the pro-wolf hunters from a few years ago are seeing the agenda now.
Interesting that you don’t see the same old characters jumping in on wolf threads. Usually suggesting that either you needed to be a better hunter or habitat was the only problem for declining ungulates. I think a lot have changed their thinking with some actual on the ground experience dealing with wolves. It’s definitely a good thing if they have, problem non hunters are oblivious to the damage being done.
Post by: KFhunter on April 15, 2022, 03:29:49 PM
Better late than never
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 15, 2022, 03:32:52 PM
They have reported sightings and been dismissed.
Post by: Jingles on April 15, 2022, 04:18:59 PM
Post by: Twispriver on April 15, 2022, 05:35:22 PM
Post by: bear on April 15, 2022, 06:26:00 PM
As a hunter I don't consider poaching wolves in any way "doing my part".
To each their own. I sure don’t have any problem with someone shooting one and letting it lay or burying it. Some good things happen that the law doesn’t agree with
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 15, 2022, 08:57:34 PM
You either approve of poaching or you are against it.As a hunter I don't consider poaching wolves in any way "doing my part".
To each their own. I sure don’t have any problem with someone shooting one and letting it lay or burying it. Some good things happen that the law doesn’t agree with
Do you really want young people making these decisions? :bash:
Post by: Special T on April 15, 2022, 09:28:53 PM
I am kind of black pilled on this. The tribes are going to have to sue and declare war on predators because they can go straight federal on the issue. I just hope sportmen can ignore the few bad tribal actors because we are going to need to side with them to beat this nonsense.
Post by: huntnphool on April 15, 2022, 09:48:45 PM
You either approve of poaching or you are against it.As a hunter I don't consider poaching wolves in any way "doing my part".
To each their own. I sure don’t have any problem with someone shooting one and letting it lay or burying it. Some good things happen that the law doesn’t agree with
Do you really want young people making these decisions? :bash:
How is this any different than your lib/dem views on crime? :chuckle:
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 15, 2022, 11:29:41 PM
What are you talking about? :dunno:You either approve of poaching or you are against it.As a hunter I don't consider poaching wolves in any way "doing my part".
To each their own. I sure don’t have any problem with someone shooting one and letting it lay or burying it. Some good things happen that the law doesn’t agree with
Do you really want young people making these decisions? :bash:
How is this any different than your lib/dem views on crime? :chuckle:
Do you mean how I am for prosecuting all criminals to the fullest extent of the law?
Are you just making stuff up? Be specific.
Post by: opdinkslayer on April 16, 2022, 07:49:27 AM
Post by: hunter399 on April 16, 2022, 09:09:21 AM
Post by: HunterStrait on April 16, 2022, 10:46:01 AM
As a hunter I don't consider poaching wolves in any way "doing my part".
To each their own. I sure don’t have any problem with someone shooting one and letting it lay or burying it. Some good things happen that the law doesn’t agree with
Yeah but I'm pretty sure people doing that and potentially getting caught in the act will continue to hinder the possibility of there ever being a wolf hunting season.
All it takes is one person poaching an animal to shut it all down.
I hope you remember when shooting deer and elk from the shoreline on the Hanford side of Ringgold got shut down permanently because someone poached an elk. You KNOW how selectively abysmal the WDFW can react to poaching cases.
Post by: KFhunter on April 16, 2022, 10:48:24 AM
ROFL! >:( :bash:
Post by: buckfvr on April 16, 2022, 10:51:47 AM
Wolf hunting season? Are you freaking kidding me? Especially right after they killed spring bear due to "social conscience"??
ROFL! >:( :bash:
X2
Ya that is a rather NOT funny, funny.......
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 16, 2022, 10:58:52 AM
Wolf hunting season? Are you freaking kidding me? Especially right after they killed spring bear due to "social conscience"??
ROFL! >:( :bash:
I heard that spring bear just postponed "indefinitely"
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 16, 2022, 11:29:07 AM
Nah...
Post by: wolfbait on April 17, 2022, 04:05:52 PM
Wolf study done out side of Denali National Park, you have to kill 50-70% of wolves each year in order for the population to remain stable. No amount of hunting and trapping will make a difference.
I am kind of black pilled on this. The tribes are going to have to sue and declare war on predators because they can go straight federal on the issue. I just hope sportmen can ignore the few bad tribal actors because we are going to need to side with them to beat this nonsense.
"Wolf study done out side of Denali National Park, you have to kill 50-70% of wolves each year in order for the population to remain stable. No amount of hunting and trapping will make a difference."
As far as the tribes declaring war on the wolves, well that started about the time they started seeing the "migrating" wolves on the Rez, before 2004.
Ranchers have their own form of wolf control and it don't include calling the very ones that protect them at every opportunity.
About the only wolf control in WA will be spotty, where ranchers etc., take out a pack here and there that are causing problems, hunting season probably cuts a few more out, plus the occasional SS. Other than that the illegally introduced poachers, AKA wolves have a pretty easy time.
The "nonsense" is here to stay, if you haven't figured that out by now you haven't been paying attention. :twocents:
Post by: KFhunter on April 17, 2022, 06:10:41 PM
SSS ain't gonna do squat
Legal hunting ain't gonna do squat, nor will it ever happen in Washington
Trapping won't ever happen in WA either.
We Are Screwed
Idaho has done remarkably well with government sanctioned SSS, legal hunting and legal trapping and paying out very well for time and effort compensation (F4WM)
NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE -OR EVER WILL BE- POSSIBLE IN WASHINGTON!
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 17, 2022, 06:40:10 PM
Like I said years ago..
SSS ain't gonna do squat
Legal hunting ain't gonna do squat, nor will it ever happen in Washington
Trapping won't ever happen in WA either.
We Are Screwed
Idaho has done remarkably well with government sanctioned SSS, legal hunting and legal trapping and paying out very well for time and effort compensation (F4WM)
NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE -OR EVER WILL BE- POSSIBLE IN WASHINGTON!
I have stepped away from the pulpit on this topic. I don't even report any sightings anymore.
Post by: dvolmer on April 17, 2022, 06:47:44 PM
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 17, 2022, 07:33:12 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 17, 2022, 08:50:39 PM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.i think someone hacked jakes account!!!
Post by: cooltimber on April 18, 2022, 06:37:34 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on April 18, 2022, 07:05:03 AM
Idaho has done remarkably well with government sanctioned SSS, legal hunting and legal trapping and paying out very well for time and effort compensation (F4WM)
NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE -OR EVER WILL BE- POSSIBLE IN WASHINGTON!
Idaho has had a summer population of over 1500 wolves for each of the last three years. Pretty stable in spite of how remarkable they are doing. And about 7 times more wolves than Washington. Yet everybody still wants to hunt there.
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/latest-fish-and-game-wolf-population-estimate-1543-and-stable-2019
Post by: Jingles on April 18, 2022, 07:11:25 AM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.
Would only take 1 or maybe 2 breeding pair live trapped, transported in covered trucks and released in strategic neighborhoods and the websites would be screaming bloody hell for controlling entire wolf population
Just have to insure to collect uncollared specimens
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2022, 01:07:59 PM
Idaho has done remarkably well with government sanctioned SSS, legal hunting and legal trapping and paying out very well for time and effort compensation (F4WM)
NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE -OR EVER WILL BE- POSSIBLE IN WASHINGTON!
Idaho has had a summer population of over 1500 wolves for each of the last three years. Pretty stable in spite of how remarkable they are doing. And about 7 times more wolves than Washington. Yet everybody still wants to hunt there.
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/latest-fish-and-game-wolf-population-estimate-1543-and-stable-2019
Washington has no idea how many wolves there are, and worse, down plays the population estimates.
Your post is meaningless without more reliable numbers.
If anything, your argument say's we should have far less wolves than Idaho (because no one wants to hunt here) yet our wolf plan calls for 5 times the amount of Idaho's wolf plan.
Post by: KFhunter on April 18, 2022, 01:08:36 PM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.
Would only take 1 or maybe 2 breeding pair live trapped, transported in covered trucks and released in strategic neighborhoods and the websites would be screaming bloody hell for controlling entire wolf population
Just have to insure to collect uncollared specimens
Like I said, I got a stock trailer....
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 18, 2022, 01:44:37 PM
Unfortunately the anti hunting crowd on the commission thinks that we need a unlimited supply of wolves to make up for how “poorly” Idaho and Montana are managing them. Commissioner Smith says she expects Wolves to be re-listed federal endangered in eastern wa Idaho and Montana by a left wing judge. Washington will act as a incubator for Wolves to disburse back into these areas. :bash:
Idaho has done remarkably well with government sanctioned SSS, legal hunting and legal trapping and paying out very well for time and effort compensation (F4WM)
NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE -OR EVER WILL BE- POSSIBLE IN WASHINGTON!
Idaho has had a summer population of over 1500 wolves for each of the last three years. Pretty stable in spite of how remarkable they are doing. And about 7 times more wolves than Washington. Yet everybody still wants to hunt there.
https://idfg.idaho.gov/press/latest-fish-and-game-wolf-population-estimate-1543-and-stable-2019
Washington has no idea how many wolves there are, and worse, down plays the population estimates.
Your post is meaningless without more reliable numbers.
If anything, your argument say's we should have far less wolves than Idaho (because no one wants to hunt here) yet our wolf plan calls for 5 times the amount of Idaho's wolf plan.
Post by: Jingles on April 18, 2022, 02:45:17 PM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.
Would only take 1 or maybe 2 breeding pair live trapped, transported in covered trucks and released in strategic neighborhoods and the websites would be screaming bloody hell for controlling entire wolf population
Just have to insure to collect uncollared specimens
Like I said, I got a stock trailer....
Stock trailer t would work however could draw unwanted attention over a simple pickup with tinted windows in a cap, especially if anywhere around Nisqually N.W.R or Pioneer Park
Post by: bornhunter on April 18, 2022, 02:55:51 PM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.
Would only take 1 or maybe 2 breeding pair live trapped, transported in covered trucks and released in strategic neighborhoods and the websites would be screaming bloody hell for controlling entire wolf population
Just have to insure to collect uncollared specimens
Like I said, I got a stock trailer....
Stock trailer t would work however could draw unwanted attention over a simple pickup with tinted windows in a cap, especially if anywhere around Nisqually N.W.R or Pioneer Park
Much less suspicious in the back of a Prius.
Post by: Special T on April 18, 2022, 03:36:54 PM
Washington Rep. Joel Kretz, R-Wauconda, believes the reported number of wolf attacks on livestock are down for good reason. He alleges ranchers no longer trust the state Fish and Wildlife Department to fairly investigate injuries and deaths.
“People have lost trust in the process, and I can’t blame them for that at all,” he said.
WDFW’s lethal removal policy allows killing wolves if they have injured or killed livestock three times within the last 30 days or four times within 10 months. The rancher must show that non-lethal measures did not work before a wolf can be euthanized.
Kretz said WDFW does not follow that policy due to a “lack of political will” and that leaves ranchers with no protection from devastation of their herds by the apex predators.
For example, he said in August 2021, WDFW authorized a kill order for up to two members of the Togo wolf pack in Ferry County because of repeated attacks on cattle, but no action was taken.
When WDFW agents do respond to the scene of an attack, many are hesitant to name wolves as the culprit because they don’t want to trigger a kill order, said Kretz.
https://www.bigcountrynewsconnection.com/idaho/washington-ranchers-no-longer-trust-state-on-wolves-says-lawmaker/article_b28090e8-bbf9-11ec-b84c-ebe9092b2027.html?fbclid=IwAR0h6qEl3CCSlBh0K4JEtYteeDeSKcbh8Gl43thN4LaF8Iewn64MxK8-oG4
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 18, 2022, 03:45:54 PM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.
Would only take 1 or maybe 2 breeding pair live trapped, transported in covered trucks and released in strategic neighborhoods and the websites would be screaming bloody hell for controlling entire wolf population
Just have to insure to collect uncollared specimens
Like I said, I got a stock trailer....
Stock trailer t would work however could draw unwanted attention over a simple pickup with tinted windows in a cap, especially if anywhere around Nisqually N.W.R or Pioneer Park
Much less suspicious in the back of a Prius.
:chuckle:
Post by: pickardjw on April 18, 2022, 04:22:42 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 18, 2022, 04:23:23 PM
Post by: buckfvr on April 18, 2022, 05:49:47 PM
Bainbridge island...for many reasons.
Add Fox and Orcas Islands. They will make Tiger on their own. :tup:
Post by: wolfbait on April 20, 2022, 06:36:20 AM
All Wolves need to be relocated to the west side of the state. Until then their will be no “political will” to do anything about them.
Would only take 1 or maybe 2 breeding pair live trapped, transported in covered trucks and released in strategic neighborhoods and the websites would be screaming bloody hell for controlling entire wolf population
Just have to insure to collect uncollared specimens
Like I said, I got a stock trailer....
Stock trailer t would work however could draw unwanted attention over a simple pickup with tinted windows in a cap, especially if anywhere around Nisqually N.W.R or Pioneer Park
Heck, you could release in broad daylight if you was driving a dark green pickup with a logo on the door similar to WDFW. Okanogan county has experienced these releases with the real thing in the past.
Now Waiting for the pro-wolf crowd to lope in with their usual Migration BS.
Post by: KFhunter on April 20, 2022, 07:40:54 AM
Post by: buckfvr on April 20, 2022, 08:28:10 AM
Post by: salt n sage90 on April 20, 2022, 08:51:32 AM
If migration happened like they say it does, Colorado wouldn't have needed a voters initiative to put em there. They'd already be there, and NM, AZ CA
They are already in Colorado by means of migration, but maybe a better word is expansion since they arent really animals that go back and forth. They voted to supplement those numbers with even more. By "they" I mean the left leaning counties/districts that dont know anything. This is according to the little research and articles I have read. Not an expert.
Post by: KFhunter on April 20, 2022, 08:52:20 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on April 20, 2022, 09:18:07 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2022, 10:59:30 AM
Post by: elkh8me on April 21, 2022, 04:59:26 AM
Oregon wolf population declines…
Post by: hunter399 on April 21, 2022, 05:15:28 AM
Idaho has a ton of resources,study's,and overall information
About everything Wolf.
Everything from prey,to wolf number increase yearly,to all kinds of info ,they have put in 20 years of hard work and research that has been on going for Idaho.
Not sure as to WHY. wdfw hasn't been going off of some Idaho research. Instead let's just pretend there is only a few wolves and our moose ,elk,and deer are not effected.
It's freaking BS and I've seen biologists for the WDFW use Idaho as examples for ungulate numbers. But hay let's totally
disregard wolf information coming out of Idaho.
Freaking joke that just pisses me off.
Yet most the wolves came from Idaho supposedly,let's not use there hard work and research,that's shows they need to be managed and numbers kept in check.
Post by: Houndhunter on April 21, 2022, 05:49:00 AM
You want some more?
No lol.
It's been really nice running hounds and not having to worry about wolves. That'll change though in the future unfortunately.
Post by: HUNTIN4SIX on April 21, 2022, 06:34:37 AM
I don't understand why Washington isn't taking notes from Idaho.You already know this, but wolves are a tool to get rid of hunting. I worked for WDFW and sat in meetings with wolf biologists, they don’t like hunters. In fact the ungulate biologist over here has wolf tattoos all over and is dating the wolf bio....She told my neighbor, also former WDFW, we don’t have enough cougars too. These bios are part of the agenda.
Idaho has a ton of resources,study's,and overall information
About everything Wolf.
Everything from prey,to wolf number increase yearly,to all kinds of info ,they have put in 20 years of hard work and research that has been on going for Idaho.
Not sure as to WHY. wdfw hasn't been going off of some Idaho research. Instead let's just pretend there is only a few wolves and our moose ,elk,and deer are not effected.
It's freaking BS and I've seen biologists for the WDFW use Idaho as examples for ungulate numbers. But hay let's totally
disregard wolf information coming out of Idaho.
Freaking joke that just pisses me off.
Yet most the wolves came from Idaho supposedly,let's not use there hard work and research,that's shows they need to be managed and numbers kept in check.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 21, 2022, 06:59:58 AM
I don't understand why Washington isn't taking notes from Idaho.You already know this, but wolves are a tool to get rid of hunting. I worked for WDFW and sat in meetings with wolf biologists, they don’t like hunters. In fact the ungulate biologist over here has wolf tattoos all over and is dating the wolf bio....She told my neighbor, also former WDFW, we don’t have enough cougars too. These bios are part of the agenda.
Idaho has a ton of resources,study's,and overall information
About everything Wolf.
Everything from prey,to wolf number increase yearly,to all kinds of info ,they have put in 20 years of hard work and research that has been on going for Idaho.
Not sure as to WHY. wdfw hasn't been going off of some Idaho research. Instead let's just pretend there is only a few wolves and our moose ,elk,and deer are not effected.
It's freaking BS and I've seen biologists for the WDFW use Idaho as examples for ungulate numbers. But hay let's totally
disregard wolf information coming out of Idaho.
Freaking joke that just pisses me off.
Yet most the wolves came from Idaho supposedly,let's not use there hard work and research,that's shows they need to be managed and numbers kept in check.
:yeah:
Coupled with the commission appointments... it's all part of the plan... reduce hunting opportunities... reduce hunters. Just another attack on conservative lifestyle's.
Post by: hunter399 on April 21, 2022, 07:14:10 AM
I hear ya .I don't understand why Washington isn't taking notes from Idaho.You already know this, but wolves are a tool to get rid of hunting. I worked for WDFW and sat in meetings with wolf biologists, they don’t like hunters. In fact the ungulate biologist over here has wolf tattoos all over and is dating the wolf bio....She told my neighbor, also former WDFW, we don’t have enough cougars too. These bios are part of the agenda.
Idaho has a ton of resources,study's,and overall information
About everything Wolf.
Everything from prey,to wolf number increase yearly,to all kinds of info ,they have put in 20 years of hard work and research that has been on going for Idaho.
Not sure as to WHY. wdfw hasn't been going off of some Idaho research. Instead let's just pretend there is only a few wolves and our moose ,elk,and deer are not effected.
It's freaking BS and I've seen biologists for the WDFW use Idaho as examples for ungulate numbers. But hay let's totally
disregard wolf information coming out of Idaho.
Freaking joke that just pisses me off.
Yet most the wolves came from Idaho supposedly,let's not use there hard work and research,that's shows they need to be managed and numbers kept in check.
The bio you and I are thinking of I'm sure are the same.
That bio won't even respond to any of my email any more.
Pretty sure they hate me,cause I make there job harder.
When I start throwing numbers at the Commission about our wildlife.
In the NE corner that is.
And is the same bio that likes to use ungulate numbers from Idaho,but will not look at wolf data from Idaho.
Post by: nwwanderer on April 21, 2022, 09:10:25 AM
Way more wolves in WA for a title
Made a little trip from gmu 127 to the Clearwater river, two moose (cow and a calf), couple dozen deer, and a couple hundred elk with a great calf crop from last year. I can arrange a little tour for our commissioners if they would like to see what predator management does. What was I thinking this is Washington
Post by: buckfvr on April 21, 2022, 09:43:05 AM
What I get from this is that they seem to shuffle through available/qualified applicants until they deem one the best fit in their program FOR THEIR AGENDA. (Not entirely uncommon practice in the business world). How else can we get to this point ? We are at the tipping point now and there seems to be no way out, without starting over with a new perspective from the govs office and that perspective would have to generate many personnel changes on down the line to re-establish the objectives of the mission statement.
Even with a conservative governor, how long would it take to essentially muck out the bad players ? Something has to happen sooner than later or else we will be looking at the point of "it's too late". It's not far off in some instances. :twocents: