Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bear Hunting => Topic started by: Lokaybinnity on May 04, 2022, 07:33:50 AM

Title: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Lokaybinnity on May 04, 2022, 07:33:50 AM: I thought I would share this little tid bit of info and you guys can say if I was out of line. I have 2 points for the spring bear hunt that the state no longer has as of right now. so I emailed the state and asked if I was either going to get my money back for these bonus points (I paid for them to help my odds of drawing a tag which no longer exists) or if my points will be allocated somewhere else that has equal value. costumer service told me that they are nonrefundable and will not be reallocated some where else, but did say i will still have my points if they decide to have a spring bear hunt in the future. she also stated they review it annually to see if there will or will not be a hunt. I didn't like that answer. so I ask to receive a email or a phone number of someone else I can talk more directly. am I out of line for asking for this and/or do you think im wasting my time. it one thing if the bear population was hurting, I would understand that, but since they made the decision on feelings and not scientific facts I should get a refund.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Ghost Hunter on May 04, 2022, 07:35:30 AM: Yes and yes
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: trophyhunt on May 04, 2022, 07:42:16 AM: Two ways to look at it, if we all asked and could get a refund and it was a hardship on them, I’d say do it! The other option, just keep your points because if the hunt comes back you’ll want those points to be there!!
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Lokaybinnity on May 04, 2022, 07:45:45 AM: fair enough i still dont like it thou lol
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Colville on May 04, 2022, 08:20:25 AM: If someone were an atty that could spend their own time.... I think a suit could be brought as a class by all point holders. Reason being that they have collected your resources and have declined to allow you to put them toward a hunt and that hunt was not curtailed out of any discernible necessity. So if the hunt is perfectly viable and they just ditch it and keep your money... at least it's not an insane claim. They provided no biological basis for the termination of the hunt after getting your $ for years on end. No one will do it and in this state, even if the case is good, it won't survive this state's courts.

I think it's akin to holding a raffle and then just not having a drawing and keeping the money. Seems like there should be some necessity to the cancellation.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Farmer72 on May 04, 2022, 08:40:16 AM: I don't agree. The points were used for the draw the year they were paid. Only thing you loose is the very slight odds for the following year if you buy another point. It is no different than a non-refundable drawing fee in a state that doesn't have a point system.

I agree that getting rid of the bear hunt is BS but the points were used the year they were paid for.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: hughjorgan on May 04, 2022, 08:57:19 AM: I think the OP is wasting his time. The draw is nothing different than a lottery, the state sells you a ticket every year to play their game which is a chance to hunt a bear in the spring. If you don’t win why should the tax payer be on the hook to refund your money that you willingly pay for a chance at something?
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: GOcougsHunter on May 04, 2022, 10:11:38 AM: I can agree with both sides of this argument. But, it does need to be pointed out that every special permit has a "points option." Points option infers that you are accumulating and purchasing better odds for an assumed future draw. Tens of thousands of folks put in for points options to theoretically draw better in the future. The points system is designed to generate revenue and engagement by hunters who are in it for the long haul. There probably needs to be some recognition of the contradiction they have created with this type of system when they eliminate special hunt categories.

I have 5 conflict goat points and 5 master hunter moose points which are no longer on my points record in Wild ID.

I do not think this logic works with Youth hunts as it is already assumed that a hunter will "age out" and no longer qualify.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Stein on May 04, 2022, 10:15:12 AM: No way you are getting a refund, as mentioned they are used the year you purchased them so you did get use out of them.

It's no different than if you have 20 elk points and all of a sudden the hunt you wanted no longer exists, they aren't going to give you back the money.

But, if they do let me know as I would love to get a refund on all of my points.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: bobcat on May 04, 2022, 10:30:35 AM: I have 10 spring bear points, and I never "used" them, because I didn't apply for any hunts. I did the point option for the last ten years so that I could draw in the future when I'd hopefully have more time to hunt.

But still I agree the state won't be refunding the money that I wasted buying points for a hunt category that now no longer exists.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Lokaybinnity on May 04, 2022, 11:15:03 AM: yeah all good points to this. I think I'm just going to keep my mouth shut for now on and hope I'm not on the watch list lmao 8)
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Bob33 on May 04, 2022, 11:26:51 AM: WDFW didn't cancel spring bear hunts; the Commission did for 2022. If a future hunt occurs the points will have value. Whether or not that occurs remains to be seen, but it would be premature to say the points are worthless.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: trophyhunt on May 04, 2022, 12:19:37 PM: Quote from: bobcat on May 04, 2022, 10:30:35 AM
I have 10 spring bear points, and I never "used" them, because I didn't apply for any hunts. I did the point option for the last ten years so that I could draw in the future when I'd hopefully have more time to hunt.

But still I agree the state won't be refunding the money that I wasted buying points for a hunt category that now no longer exists.
10 POINTS!!! Add my son in law and me to your app when the hunts are back on, I'll guide ya!! I only apply for one unit though, blues. We will average 5 points, prob still draw. :)
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: steeleywhopper on May 04, 2022, 01:21:18 PM: I say anytime you can make someone at the WDFW do something that requires them to work go for it! Those *censored*s are screwing us to pieces with their Anti Hunting Commission.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: sagerat on May 04, 2022, 06:32:49 PM: They are black bear points, not specifically spring black bear points. Might be usable when our a hole state makes fall bear permit only.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: snake on May 04, 2022, 06:39:35 PM: Absolutely not out of line, and not a waste of time. if more people would take the 4 minutes to do what you just did we would be in a better place.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Stein on May 04, 2022, 10:35:19 PM: Quote from: steeleywhopper on May 04, 2022, 01:21:18 PM
I say anytime you can make someone at the WDFW do something that requires them to work go for it! Those *censored*s are screwing us to pieces with their Anti Hunting Commission.

WDFW doesn't appoint people to the commission, they all come from the governor. WDFW was actually pushing pretty hard for the spring hunt, at least on a relative basis.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: steeleywhopper on May 06, 2022, 03:53:04 PM: Quote from: Stein on May 04, 2022, 10:35:19 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on May 04, 2022, 01:21:18 PM
I say anytime you can make someone at the WDFW do something that requires them to work go for it! Those *censored*s are screwing us to pieces with their Anti Hunting Commission.

WDFW doesn't appoint people to the commission, they all come from the governor. WDFW was actually pushing pretty hard for the spring hunt, at least on a relative basis.

I 100% understand this, but I have to think that if the Commission is strong enough to shut down our bear season they must have some serious pull in that WDFW organization. I don't trust them any longer, not that I really did in the first place.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Dirtnap on May 12, 2022, 11:56:56 AM: So why doesn’t conflict goat even show up in points?
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Ghost Hunter on May 12, 2022, 02:05:04 PM: Quote from: steeleywhopper on May 06, 2022, 03:53:04 PM
Quote from: Stein on May 04, 2022, 10:35:19 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on May 04, 2022, 01:21:18 PM
I say anytime you can make someone at the WDFW do something that requires them to work go for it! Those *censored*s are screwing us to pieces with their Anti Hunting Commission.

WDFW doesn't appoint people to the commission, they all come from the governor. WDFW was actually pushing pretty hard for the spring hunt, at least on a relative basis.

I 100% understand this, but I have to think that if the Commission is strong enough to shut down our bear season they must have some serious pull in that WDFW organization. I don't trust them any longer, not that I really did in the first place.

I don't think they have pull. They were appointed by the governor to push back. :twocents:
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 12, 2022, 02:14:47 PM: The commission should be only there to make recommendations and not to have the final say. When they don't have the hunting and fishing communities best interests in mind then they are worthless to us which is the case now. There is too much politics in the commission instead of science
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: Platensek-po on May 12, 2022, 02:39:22 PM: Quote from: Ghost Hunter on May 12, 2022, 02:05:04 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on May 06, 2022, 03:53:04 PM
Quote from: Stein on May 04, 2022, 10:35:19 PM
Quote from: steeleywhopper on May 04, 2022, 01:21:18 PM
I say anytime you can make someone at the WDFW do something that requires them to work go for it! Those *censored*s are screwing us to pieces with their Anti Hunting Commission.

WDFW doesn't appoint people to the commission, they all come from the governor. WDFW was actually pushing pretty hard for the spring hunt, at least on a relative basis.

I 100% understand this, but I have to think that if the Commission is strong enough to shut down our bear season they must have some serious pull in that WDFW organization. I don't trust them any longer, not that I really did in the first place.

I don't think they have pull. They were appointed by the governor to push back. :twocents:

They have the ultimate say. It’s not about pull in wdfw. It’s that it’s dumb to have a commission run a department that’s supposed to be run off of science. Wdfw actually fought for the bear hunt. They don’t get a say on if it happens unless it’s approved by the commission. Watching the meetings it was pretty clear that wdfw was pretty disappointed by the decision as well.
Title: Re: spring bear question to dfw
Post by: 444Marlin on May 17, 2022, 07:40:40 AM: Don't we all click on something when we purchase our tags and applications that says to the effect of, "All sales are final...blah, blah,... no refunds"?
I admit that I don't read that fine print, but it seems that there is no refunds.

During the lockdown Oregon did credit me my points back. But I don't feel like that had to.