Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 18, 2009, 08:04:32 PM
Post by: beave on May 18, 2009, 08:38:21 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on May 18, 2009, 09:04:30 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on May 19, 2009, 01:17:48 AM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 19, 2009, 09:24:57 AM
Post by: cohoho on May 19, 2009, 12:50:33 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 19, 2009, 01:07:04 PM
effect for all STURGEON (except Chehalis
River). Any STURGEON not to be retained
must be released immediately. Oversized
STURGEON cannot be removed totally or in
part from the water.
Tagged STURGEON: Do not remove tags from"
Post by: fc2038 on May 19, 2009, 05:24:50 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 19, 2009, 05:50:20 PM
"Night closure in
effect for all STURGEON (except Chehalis
River). Any STURGEON not to be retained
must be released immediately. Oversized
STURGEON cannot be removed totally or in
part from the water.
Tagged STURGEON: Do not remove tags from"
Where did you get this night closer info Dman?
As for the fish, another spawning adult stressed for 31 minutes. :bash:
Post by: walt on May 19, 2009, 05:55:45 PM
Quote
Where did you get this night closer info Dman?
Page 30, top right corner Statewide Freshwater Rules; Sturgeon, second paragraph.
Post by: huntnphool on May 19, 2009, 06:06:01 PM
Quote
well 910 rolls around and we have about 15 min of daylight left.
Post by: huntnphool on May 19, 2009, 07:06:45 PM
Post by: Straight Shooter on May 19, 2009, 07:08:54 PM
Looks like he was out in the saltwater to me.
:yeah:
Reminds me of tuna/yellowtail fishing off the coast of Mexico.
Post by: Antlershed on May 19, 2009, 07:26:07 PM
Thanks Dman, I knew where it was I just thought I would ask the question before he did ;) Incidentally, the official sunset in that area was around 1930hrs that day, long beforeI found that the official sunset was 8:33pm, and you are allowed to fish for one hour past that...Quotewell 910 rolls around and we have about 15 min of daylight left.
Post by: huntnphool on May 19, 2009, 07:33:56 PM
Post by: Antlershed on May 19, 2009, 07:46:15 PM
It does look like it was about 2030hrs, so does that mean they should have cut the line at 2130 :chuckle:Yep. :chuckle:
Post by: NW-Eric on May 20, 2009, 08:58:47 AM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 20, 2009, 02:52:59 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 20, 2009, 03:33:36 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 20, 2009, 08:41:41 PM
Post by: fishaholic86 on May 20, 2009, 08:48:07 PM
Post by: shoot-em-dead on May 20, 2009, 09:08:25 PM
Post by: shoot-em-dead on May 20, 2009, 09:09:55 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 20, 2009, 09:48:38 PM
Post by: singleshot12 on May 21, 2009, 07:33:53 AM
Do you guys have to question ethics every time anyone posts anything. I for one am really getting tired of it. Seems like it doesn't matter what the topic is, someone has to start complaining.
I think people are overly concerned because sturgeon fishing is basically a delicate fishery. Nobody has really fished them much until just the last ten years. These oversize spawners are 30-80 years old on average. Sturgeon fishing appears to be a very popular sport now with dozens of guides and "a ton" of uneducated fishermen out there targeting these oversize fish for the thrill of the fight.
I don't think sturgeon are AS TOUGH as people think they are.These fish go under a tremendous amount of stress being hooked,fought,and handled. I have personally found several 6 to 10 footers in the last few years washed in dead from apparently over exhaustion or from being poorly handled
If this continues this fishery will be shut down,,and I think that is why some of us are overly concerned
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 07:45:35 AM
Well said. Some don't get these comment's, younger folks that are encouraged by one or two older folks who should know better. I don't blame the young guy, who is learning, but those that encourage unethical behavior by cheering them on, and to the poster that said ethics aren't important, that is the ONLY thing that is important in fishing and hunting. I too have seen these fish washed up on shore. To me it's the equivalent of fishing a closed salmon season, having a photo shoot and calling it a good day, it just isn't done by any of the well-respected guides on the Sound. I feel like I'm trying to do someone a favor and they don't get that. Reputation is everything in guiding, it's the difference between getting new clients, or not.Do you guys have to question ethics every time anyone posts anything. I for one am really getting tired of it. Seems like it doesn't matter what the topic is, someone has to start complaining.
I think people are overly concerned because sturgeon fishing is a delicate fishery. Nobody has really fished them much until just the last ten years. These oversize spawners are 30-80 years old on average. Sturgeon fishing appears to be very popular sport now with dozens of guides and "a ton" of uneducated fishermen out there targeting these oversize fish for the thrill of the fight.
I don't think sturgeon are AS TOUGH as people think they are.These fish go under a tremendous amount of stress being hooked,fought,and handled. I have personally found several 6 to 10 footers the last few years washed in dead from apparently over exhaustion or from being poorly handled
If this continues this fishery will be shut down,,and I think that is why some of us are overly concerned
Post by: bullcanyon on May 21, 2009, 07:46:40 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 07:51:48 AM
Post by: luvtohnt on May 21, 2009, 08:19:38 AM
VANCOUVER, WASHINGTON
Location: W122°38'24.0", N45°37'48.0", 0m
(Longitude referred to Greenwich meridian)
Time Zone: 7h 00m west of Greenwich
Date Begin Rise Az. Transit Alt. Set Az. End
(Zone) Civil Civil
Twilight Twilight
h m h m h m h m h m
2009 May 17 (Sun) 05:02 05:37 13:07 20:38 30 21:13
Official sunset was 8:38. If you ever doubt someone all you have to do is save their picture and open it in some kind of picture program and it will give you the time stamp. So either his camera was never changed during daylight savings time or he doesn't know how to read a watch!! Notice in the upper right corner the date and time stamp.
Brandon
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 08:23:12 AM
Post by: luvtohnt on May 21, 2009, 08:28:39 AM
Brandon
Post by: GigPig on May 21, 2009, 08:29:28 AM
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 08:33:12 AM
does fishing stops an hour after dark mean cut the line? or can you finish the fight?
i think thats the question here, it's clear that the time that the hookup happened he was legal. but if you're supposed to be done an hour after dark as in cut the line, then the man broke the law by his own admission, in which case it's kinda stupid to post that on the WWW for the free world to see, especially if you're guiding.
flashes make background darker.
Post by: luvtohnt on May 21, 2009, 08:40:52 AM
Brandon
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 08:44:48 AM
Post by: tmike on May 21, 2009, 09:17:20 AM
My :twocents: Unless it's blatant poaching we should just enjoy the successes of others without scrutinizing every detail. Do you want people to quit posting for fear of having their experiences rained on? I know it makes me think twice before throwing something up here on the old WWW.
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 10:06:02 AM
Thanks man! bout time someone else says they are getting tired of it
After all the replies and debate about you going out and targetting these oversize fish on the last thread, I thought you would have realized there are a lot of members that find this unethical. For you to thumb your nose at them and post up more picks of doing it again is just plain stupidity if you think its going to go unnoticed and get no negative replies. Wake up Paul, if you don't want the negative comments then don't stir the pot, its that simple.
As a guide trying to make a name and living in the fishing business, you are not doing whole lot to attract new clientele. :twocents:
Post by: M_ray on May 21, 2009, 10:14:06 AM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 21, 2009, 03:05:02 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 21, 2009, 03:08:14 PM
Thanks man! bout time someone else says they are getting tired of it
After all the replies and debate about you going out and targetting these oversize fish on the last thread, I thought you would have realized there are a lot of members that find this unethical. For you to thumb your nose at them and post up more picks of doing it again is just plain stupidity if you think its going to go unnoticed and get no negative replies. Wake up Paul, if you don't want the negative comments then don't stir the pot, its that simple.
As a guide trying to make a name and living in the fishing business, you are not doing whole lot to attract new clientele. :twocents:
I have no issues with negative comments that have some form or merit.. none of these do.. there are some on here yourself included that have a opinion that differs from mine, however there are more that find nothing wrong with catching these great fish, like myself.. so im not sure how I am stirring any pot by posting pics just because a few of you dont agree? I think I have more then every right to do so.... some people post pics of stocked lake caught trout.. thats about as far from fishing you can get IMO, but I dont bash thier posts and I let them enjoy thier catch and share it with all of us..... yet somehow I cant do the same?
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 21, 2009, 03:15:15 PM
Well said. Some don't get these comment's, younger folks that are encouraged by one or two older folks who should know better. I don't blame the young guy, who is learning, but those that encourage unethical behavior by cheering them on, and to the poster that said ethics aren't important, that is the ONLY thing that is important in fishing and hunting. I too have seen these fish washed up on shore. To me it's the equivalent of fishing a closed salmon season, having a photo shoot and calling it a good day, it just isn't done by any of the well-respected guides on the Sound. I feel like I'm trying to do someone a favor and they don't get that. Reputation is everything in guiding, it's the difference between getting new clients, or not.Do you guys have to question ethics every time anyone posts anything. I for one am really getting tired of it. Seems like it doesn't matter what the topic is, someone has to start complaining.
I think people are overly concerned because sturgeon fishing is a delicate fishery. Nobody has really fished them much until just the last ten years. These oversize spawners are 30-80 years old on average. Sturgeon fishing appears to be very popular sport now with dozens of guides and "a ton" of uneducated fishermen out there targeting these oversize fish for the thrill of the fight.
I don't think sturgeon are AS TOUGH as people think they are.These fish go under a tremendous amount of stress being hooked,fought,and handled. I have personally found several 6 to 10 footers the last few years washed in dead from apparently over exhaustion or from being poorly handled
If this continues this fishery will be shut down,,and I think that is why some of us are overly concerned
This topic is so funny to me, so many of you take the very little studies as cold hard facts on these fish.. some studies say sportfishing has a direct effect, some say the spawning fish dont feed during this time.. so sportfishing should have no impact on them....... seeing dead fish you AUTOMATICALLY assume a sport angler killed the fish, old age or other natural causes cant even be the issue right? of course not.. and as far as guides not targeting them in the sound? the sound is not the columbia.. lets be honest here.. the columbia is still the best sturg river on the planet.. if there were viable areas that those fish concenrate in, you bet guides would target them....... whether your personal opinion agrees or not there are stil plenty of people that want to fish for these, Im booked solid as are most other guides down here for these fish the next 4 weeks......
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 03:18:49 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 03:22:32 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 03:28:08 PM
Post by: Intruder on May 21, 2009, 03:42:15 PM
- Why doesn't the F/G shut down sturgeon fishing during the spawn?
- Does the length of the fight play a major role in the stress level as it does in other fish?
- Is 20-30 minutes a long fight, average, short for sturgeon of that size?
I totally understand the ethical argument but it seems like he's within the law in fishing for em, and he seems like he's handling them responsibily or at least trying to minimize the stress. Is there any objective data that shows mortality associated with this? Again, I understand the concerns but if it is so impactful on what is known to be such a fragile (as some one put so well) fishery why is it even legal?
Not tryin to take sides.... truly tryin to better understand.
Post by: robodad on May 21, 2009, 03:53:02 PM
I also seen coolers full of black bass and no comments about how that particular species is dwindling so fast and takes so long to recover etc......! :dunno:
what about those ??
Or the Walleyes that are targeted and released, are they not stressed too ??
I get really tired of reading these types of threads where a person is posting their activities for our enjoyment and information and all we can do is kick dirt on them, This is sad !! :twocents:
Post by: boneaddict on May 21, 2009, 03:55:23 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 03:56:01 PM
Couple legit questions here:
- Why doesn't the F/G shut down sturgeon fishing during the spawn?
- Does the length of the fight play a major role in the stress level as it does in other fish?
- Is 20-30 minutes a long fight, average, short for sturgeon of that size?
I totally understand the ethical argument but it seems like he's within the law in fishing for em, and he seems like he's handling them responsibily or at least trying to minimize the stress. Is there any objective data that shows mortality associated with this? Again, I understand the concerns but if it is so impactful on what is known to be such a fragile (as some one put so well) fishery why is it even legal?
Not tryin to take sides.... truly tryin to better understand.
- Why doesn't the F/G shut down sturgeon fishing during the spawn? -I guess I don't understand that question, the season is closed for most breeding age fish, fish over 54" long. There are also select areas closed altogether during the spawn upstream.
- Does the length of the fight play a major role in the stress level as it does in other fish? It does in all fish
- Is 20-30 minutes a long fight, average, short for sturgeon of that size? I doubt someone when they say it only takes that long to land on oversized fish.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 03:59:13 PM
Post by: boneaddict on May 21, 2009, 04:02:25 PM
Quote
visible mortality
You mean the 9 footers that keep washing up on shore.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 04:03:46 PM
Post by: rougheye on May 21, 2009, 04:07:14 PM
Post by: robodad on May 21, 2009, 04:13:07 PM
It doesn't take a walleye, a bass, a halibut a 100 years to reach an age at which they can reproduce.
Sturgeon don't take 100 years to mature either !!
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 04:15:54 PM
Post by: snipekillr on May 21, 2009, 04:16:19 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
Sturgeon don't take 100 years to mature either !!
This is true, its actually about 30 so its all good then. ;)
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 04:27:26 PM
i also think wild trout, salmon and steelhead should all be released.
i also don't eat billfish at restaurants and i don't buy wild steelhead in the grocery store.
i know everyone doesn't agree with that, and i'm ok with that. call me what you want, thats what i choose.
Post by: singleshot12 on May 21, 2009, 04:31:32 PM
Everybody knows what is right or wrong here :dunno: There will always be people who push the limits of the law until the resource is gone . Thats just the way it is . If you can look in the mirror at yourself in the mirror at night knowing you ruining your own livelyhood than go for it . Im sure your tips are good too :bash: Please just dont advertise it , you give us all a bad name .
I want my kids to be able to fish for keeper size sturgeon some day, so I am writing letters to help get the law changed to protect these old souls.
If it keeps going the way it is,I'm guessing within five years bio's will notice a major decline and we will all loose it, maybe forever.
Post by: 6x6in6 on May 21, 2009, 04:35:55 PM
At least we get the opportunity to stick a fork in his ass. Some salvation I guess.
Post by: robodad on May 21, 2009, 04:41:41 PM
Sturgeon don't take 100 years to mature either !!
This is true, its actually about 30 so its all good then. ;)
Its actually around 18 which is a really long time in my book, Halibut are around 8 years and bass is a long time as well, so really all species are affected by stress and recover slowly.
My whole point is not to point fingers here as we are all guilty in some fashon as fishermen when it comes to stressing different species, I do agree that targeting a specific species when they are spawning is a bad idea regardless which one it is but the WDFW sets the seasons on them and sometimes they coinside with the spawning.
I think it is best to not target anything weather wildlife or fish that we cannot keep. If I don't have a bull tag in my pocket you won't find me trying to call them or persue them in any way, and same goes for fish, I don't fish for salmon when I know I cannot keep them it's simple.
Long term it could be harmful to the species but WDFW has to determine that before anything will really be done about it.
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 04:46:43 PM
Quote
Long term it could be harmful to the species but WDFW has to determine that before anything will really be done about it.
Agreed Robo, it doesn't make it right in the mean time though is my point, and if there is even a chance that the bios could be correct, then why on earth as a sportsamn would you do it :dunno:
Post by: billythekidrock on May 21, 2009, 04:49:02 PM
I liken this to trapping or baiting, if legal to do so then we should support those that enjoy those activities.
One thing that makes me laugh though is that Hoyt is the first to spout "ethics" when it comes to archery, so why not when it comes to sturgies? Am I saying don't do it? No, but why target them so hard? Catch one or two a season and call it good.
I am not defending nor condeming.
Post by: singleshot12 on May 21, 2009, 04:49:24 PM
Sturgeon don't take 100 years to mature either !!
This is true, its actually about 30 so its all good then. ;)
Its actually around 18 which is a really long time in my book, Halibut are around 8 years and bass is a long time as well, so really all species are affected by stress and recover slowly.
My whole point is not to point fingers here as we are all guilty in some fashon as fishermen when it comes to stressing different species, I do agree that targeting a specific species when they are spawning is a bad idea regardless which one it is but the WDFW sets the seasons on them and sometimes they coinside with the spawning.
I think it is best to not target anything weather wildlife or fish that we cannot keep. If I don't have a bull tag in my pocket you won't find me trying to call them or persue them in any way, and same goes for fish, I don't fish for salmon when I know I cannot keep them it's simple.
Long term it could be harmful to the species but WDFW has to determine that before anything will really be done about it.
And by the time anything is ever done, it is too late.
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 05:08:14 PM
it's illegal to keep them.
is there an actual season that is open to catch and release oversizers? or is this just like oops i was really fishing for keepers with a 3lb shad for bait and a 9/0 hook when i accidentally hooked this 10'er. is this just some loophole in the regs so to speak or is it legal to target them?
i have been sturgeon fishing exactly one time and we used little herring or shad or something that were 5" long or so...i was surprised at how small the bait was.
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 05:21:57 PM
We used anchovies when you were out Josh, seldon do you hook oversize fishing like that in the lower river, maybe 3 a year on my boat.
Post by: robodad on May 21, 2009, 05:51:09 PM
Quote
Agreed Robo, it doesn't make it right in the mean time though is my point, and if there is even a chance that the bios could be correct, then why on earth as a sportsamn would you do it
I don't know the condition of the species as a whole and from the biological stand point I can't tell you if targeting them is harming them so I have to rely on the WDFW to tell me when it is ok to engage in such activity weather right or wrong although I know the effects of stress on an animal and in some cases they don't recover from it. I do know personally that it's not right to unnecessarily stress any species of game animal or game fish especially when they are already vulnerable so I DON'T do it.
I can see however why some would like to catch these fish because I am sure it is fun and makes them money and is perfectly legal to do, similar to baiting, I don't do it, and you know me I don't condone others doing it either BUT it's still legal and like BTKR says we should support those that do it even if its wrong, right ??
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 06:00:03 PM
Quote
we should support those that do it even if its wrong, right ??
To each his own, not me. Just because WDFW condones it doesn't make it right, there are several subjects that I don't agree with WDFW on, but thats just me.
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 06:00:56 PM
Robo, don't put so much faith in the ability of WDFW to even keep track of this issue, they have been cut back so bad, with the worse yet to come, that this is the exact kind of issue that they will not have manpower to look at closely. It's at least partly up to us to voice our concern.
Post by: boneaddict on May 21, 2009, 06:08:44 PM
Post by: KillBilly on May 21, 2009, 06:11:29 PM
there's at least a couple people here who don't think it's cool to stress giant 80 year old spawning fish and simply don't express their opinions.
well said Josh and a fact for sure
Post by: KillBilly on May 21, 2009, 06:13:11 PM
the other thing i would add is that for the sake of your business, the last thing i would be doing is posting this stuff on the web especially when you know everyone is going to rip you apart. you are jeopardizing your reputation, and you seem to know you are gonna get ripped.
It actually seems that he is living up to what we view his Rep to be
Post by: Navyhunter on May 21, 2009, 06:15:20 PM
there's at least a couple people here who don't think it's cool to stress giant 80 year old spawning fish and simply don't express their opinions.
well said Josh and a fact for sure
Sure is. Let 'em be.
Post by: M_ray on May 21, 2009, 06:28:51 PM
there's at least a couple people here who don't think it's cool to stress giant 80 year old spawning fish and simply don't express their opinions.
But for those of us that do express out opinions he tells us OUR view has no merit!!! :rolleyes:
Post by: huntnphool on May 21, 2009, 06:33:53 PM
Quote
remember these fish are over 100years old.. they are all we have left like that, they need to be respected and cared for.....
it makes you wonder why he continues to go after them. :dunno:
Post by: M_ray on May 21, 2009, 06:50:00 PM
Post by: boneaddict on May 21, 2009, 07:00:16 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 21, 2009, 07:08:06 PM
Just let it go guys, he is never going to see the long term affects and worse yet he doesn't care. He is a short sighted, narrow minded, get mine while I can personality that is only interested in a quick paycheck. Anyone that compares catching trout plants to oversize sturgeon clearly has no clue!
It was in no way a comparison.. my point was I also dont agree with some things people do but if they are doing it 100% legal and its fun to them I let them enjoy it,not bash them... why do I post pics? I dont think anything is wrong with that.. as far as this argument goes, you dont agree with me, thats fine.. you ask why would I fish for them if I love sturg fishing so much? thats the reason.. nothing is more fun to catch..... its okay if its incidental... or what about in august after they have spawned? I also fish for them during those times of the year, how about the fall up at the dam? some days we hook as many oversize as keepers on very small baits... where do you draw the line? IMO keepig large keepers is just as bad but no one ever says anything about that... a 55-60 in fish is damn close to breeding age/size maybe 1-2 years away.. but you and everyone on here has no issue with keeping those, if you think the state of the fishery is as bad as it is, then why dont you release anything over say 53 in? that way they to can start to breed in the next few years? personally I think the keeper fishery has a big effect as well, how many large almost breeding size fish are killed every year by sportsmen? a hell of lot more then the oversize I hook.... since we only get 5 a year and thats not many, id be all for a C & R fishery for 5 years or so.... sturg is great meat but we have plenty of other fish that taste just as well, and they are still a blast to C & R.. so how about that? no one suggests that.. its just oversize fishing is the whole problem with our fishery.... how about 15 years ago when it was 2 a day from 3-6 ft...... how many females were killed back then? its not one thing that makes it a problem, we have to look at the whole picture....... if studies were done that conclusively said the sport fishery in the summer has a impact I would stop and wait till august to fish for them.... thats my right and I dont think I am wrong in that stance.. you can disagree and you will and thats fine..... If I thought I was hurting the fish I wouldnt go after them...... as it stands I do and do it with the most care you can have for these fish.... if you want to worry about people, worry about the ones without the appropriate gear and knowledge to get these fish landed in a timely manner....
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 21, 2009, 07:09:54 PM
Couple legit questions here:
- Why doesn't the F/G shut down sturgeon fishing during the spawn?
- Does the length of the fight play a major role in the stress level as it does in other fish?
- Is 20-30 minutes a long fight, average, short for sturgeon of that size?
I totally understand the ethical argument but it seems like he's within the law in fishing for em, and he seems like he's handling them responsibily or at least trying to minimize the stress. Is there any objective data that shows mortality associated with this? Again, I understand the concerns but if it is so impactful on what is known to be such a fragile (as some one put so well) fishery why is it even legal?
Not tryin to take sides.... truly tryin to better understand.
- Why doesn't the F/G shut down sturgeon fishing during the spawn? -I guess I don't understand that question, the season is closed for most breeding age fish, fish over 54" long. There are also select areas closed altogether during the spawn upstream.
- Does the length of the fight play a major role in the stress level as it does in other fish? It does in all fish
- Is 20-30 minutes a long fight, average, short for sturgeon of that size? I doubt someone when they say it only takes that long to land on oversized fish.
You can doubt it all you want.. here is a video of a 7 ftr being landed by my buddy last year in 9 minutes.......
Post by: robodad on May 21, 2009, 07:24:44 PM
Quotewe should support those that do it even if its wrong, right ??
To each his own, not me. Just because WDFW condones it doesn't make it right, there are several subjects that I don't agree with WDFW on, but thats just me.
I think were on the same page in this matter, and it's good to know that it's ok for me to have my own opinion about certain subjects even if you don't agree with them.
So are you to the point that banning the targeting of oversized sturgeon should be an option ??
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 21, 2009, 07:35:22 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on May 21, 2009, 08:02:29 PM
If I troll a herring in a closed salmon area and claim I'm lingcod fishing is it legal? If I'm on a jury I'm finding that person guilty because we all know what they are doing. :twocents:
None of my comments here specifically address this post. Just rhetorical thoughts.
Post by: M_ray on May 21, 2009, 08:14:31 PM
Post by: walt on May 21, 2009, 08:25:04 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 21, 2009, 08:28:22 PM
So they are cutting back on hatchery programs for sturgeon, do you think that the natural spawners will be even more important then??? Of course not because hooking them doesn't hurt them at all, not one bit. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: shoot-em-dead on May 21, 2009, 08:41:58 PM
Post by: Jackjr on May 21, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 21, 2009, 09:30:23 PM
That picture you saw was of the puget sound. And it is nice that you THINK there is no shortage of sturgeon. I am not a bio, and i do not to pretend to be one, but there are studies and people that want to twist facts to fit there needs (convincing themselves they are being ethical to make money). I do not have a stake in it, i fish for sturgeon 3-4 days a year now because i just don't make the time to, but i would like to see future generations catch fish. and just because you think it is o.k. must mean there are enought fish to go around...
Post by: shoot-em-dead on May 21, 2009, 09:37:21 PM
Post by: cohoho on May 21, 2009, 10:27:39 PM
Post by: robodad on May 21, 2009, 10:40:27 PM
Quote
I think some of you have Sturgeon envy..... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Indeed !!! :drool:
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2009, 10:53:10 PM
Quote
I think some of you have Sturgeon envy..... chuckle chuckle chuckle
i don't.
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 22, 2009, 04:31:28 AM
Is it really legal if you are specifically targeting fish outside the legal range? Using full size shad that a legal fish won't or can't eat.
If I troll a herring in a closed salmon area and claim I'm lingcod fishing is it legal? If I'm on a jury I'm finding that person guilty because we all know what they are doing. :twocents:
None of my comments here specifically address this post. Just rhetorical thoughts.
I catch 4 -7 keepers a year this time of year on whole shad, I try to use the smallest ones I can. you would be surprised how big of a bait these fish can eat. last august I got a 59 with a large whole shad
Post by: bullcanyon on May 22, 2009, 06:15:40 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 22, 2009, 07:31:09 AM
Normally hoyt is the one being arrogant. Not this time. A couple of you just flat out don't like him for past experience and are just slamming for the sake of doing so. I'm not his biggest fan, but you guys are ridiculous. Put out half this effort into getting the law changed and maybe we won't have to watch you act like gradeschoolers.
You've added nothing to this conversation but insult's, when you have some type of opinion on the subject matter, fishing for oversized, then chime in.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 22, 2009, 07:32:35 AM
15 years ago we didn't have the problem we have today, we could keep 2 fish a day from 36"-72" and there was no annual limit, now we can keep 1 fish from 38-54 inches unless you are in the estuary.
When the salmon started to decline, and the internet took off so did the targeting of sturgeon so the seasons were curtailed. Accidental catch of oversize fish will happen but that is like the accidental catch of unclipped salmon, it is going to happen. It is going out to hook 7-10 a day from multiple guides and private boats that really gets me.
But whatever, its not illegal so keep doing it.
I used to fish for oversize sturgeon, but i have stopped. I have hookd them in the estuary and up near camas, i use salmon gear for sturgeon now and if i hook one i cut the line, i also no longer use stainless hooks, they rust out much quicker.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 22, 2009, 07:43:01 AM
How about you compare it to chasing deer to get them to drop there antlers. that is what i liken this to. Or hunting cows in january, yes they do it as a management tool so someones fences don't get torn down, or hunting cows in the trout lake valley in march, I think it is the same.
Post by: singleshot12 on May 22, 2009, 07:43:35 AM
Why let it get to that point?
The law needs to be changed!,,as of now there is no night closer or snagging rule in effect for the salt water,,estuaries where oversize sturgeon congregate need to be closed,,and maybe even prohibit specific baits that oversize fish feed on.
Just common sense ideas that would ensure our kids can fish for them some day,,spin it if you like.
Post by: jackelope on May 22, 2009, 07:48:58 AM
Post by: boneaddict on May 22, 2009, 07:53:19 AM
As for the picture with a lot of them in one spot. That was very cool, but doubt that means the ocean is birming with them. I would imagine or relate it to seeing a group of 20 bulls on the clockum in one area. That doesn't mean shoot them all.
But hey, go ahead keep doing it, its legal. You know how they shut down incidental catch. They shut down the fishery. I guess it wouldn't hurt my feelings any. Its not like I'm ever down there.
make it single barbless with bait restrictions. LOL
Post by: jackelope on May 22, 2009, 07:58:57 AM
i should add that i don't have anything against hoyt either, just the practice of skirting the law to fish for oversized fish.
Post by: singleshot12 on May 22, 2009, 08:05:04 AM
I too would rather see it completely closed down to everybody than continue to see the abuse to these old fish.
Not seeing a dead oversize on the shore line after the weekend cluster of guides and others would be nice
Post by: bobcat on May 22, 2009, 08:44:39 AM
Well considering I'm not a conservationist
Really ???
From merriam-webster.com:
conservationist
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: a person who advocates conservation especially of natural resources
conservation:
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1: a careful preservation and protection of something ; especially : planned management of a natural resource to prevent exploitation, destruction, or neglect
Post by: singleshot12 on May 22, 2009, 08:56:46 PM
Post by: M_ray on May 22, 2009, 09:00:18 PM
Well considering I'm not a conservationist
Really ???
From merriam-webster.com:
conservationistQuote: a person who advocates conservation especially of natural resources
conservation:Quote1: a careful preservation and protection of something ; especially : planned management of a natural resource to prevent exploitation, destruction, or neglect
Yeah so whats your point Bobcat? or is it as usual just to stir the pot! :rolleyes:
Post by: Kent Hunter on May 22, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
Post by: boneaddict on May 23, 2009, 07:00:52 AM
Post by: PolarBear on May 23, 2009, 07:57:30 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on May 23, 2009, 04:19:33 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 23, 2009, 07:39:01 PM
Yeah so whats your point Bobcat? or is it as usual just to stir the pot! :rolleyes:
Yep, just stirring the pot, you got that right. :ass:
Post by: M_ray on May 23, 2009, 09:23:35 PM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 26, 2009, 08:19:07 AM
http://www.gamefishin.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13911
Post by: cohoho on May 26, 2009, 01:53:23 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 26, 2009, 01:56:11 PM
Post by: HawkenBob on May 26, 2009, 02:51:03 PM
Sturgeon fishing for OVERSIZE is LEGAL.
There have been a couple hundred guides doing this for at least the last 15 years. They target them, and will tell you that at time of booking even if they dont know your a undercover warden on the phone. Its perfectly legal folks.
Some rules changed just for this, like lifting them out of water. Gone are the days of seeing mamoth fish pulled to the gunnels.
It already is single barbless.
Hoyt is a egomaniac.
Hoyt countradicts himself often.
If you think this is un-ethical and C and R wild fish your a hypocrite period.
Carry on with the soup. :stirthepot:
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on May 26, 2009, 03:35:04 PM
Just a little input for some who are kind of mixed up, and some who are not...Lol
Sturgeon fishing for OVERSIZE is LEGAL.
There have been a couple hundred guides doing this for at least the last 15 years. They target them, and will tell you that at time of booking even if they dont know your a undercover warden on the phone. Its perfectly legal folks.
Some rules changed just for this, like lifting them out of water. Gone are the days of seeing mamoth fish pulled to the gunnels.
It already is single barbless.
Hoyt is a egomaniac.
Hoyt countradicts himself often.
If you think this is un-ethical and C and R wild fish your a hypocrite period.
Carry on with the soup. :stirthepot:
The legality that was questioned was A) time of day and B) taking measurement's out of water. I disagree that one is a hypocrite to release wild fish, while targeting hatchery fish during an open season, say in the case of salmon fishing in the salt. Completely different than going out and seeing how many non-legal fish you can catch and tire them out, mishandle them, then let them go. That's the equivalent of going to a river that produces only wild steelhead, where wild fish are illegal to keep and C&R all day long, no comparison. The Columbia is huge river, clearly there are guys as skilled as Hoyt who can go out and find these fish on a fish finder all day long :chuckle:.
Post by: jackelope on May 26, 2009, 03:47:04 PM
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If you think this is un-ethical and C and R wild fish your a hypocrite period.
apples and oranges...using the same gear in the same water to catch either/or nates or hatchery brats is completely different than using a 5lb shad for bait that pretty much guaranteed is only going to get eaten by an oversized sturgeon. it's legal so it is what it is, but to say someone is a hypocrite for c-n-r'ing wild steelhead on the sky or whatever other river is b.s. IMO. there's a reason most of the "S" rivers are closed right now.
Post by: huntnphool on May 26, 2009, 04:08:23 PM
Post by: HawkenBob on May 26, 2009, 04:28:11 PM
But fishing the Hoh and Queets, Duc or Calawah past mid Jan, Just cause they eat the same exact size bait doesent really change it does it? Its still the same...IMO.
Post by: jackelope on May 26, 2009, 04:36:38 PM
Post by: M_ray on May 27, 2009, 10:40:00 PM
They have Dr.'s, Lawyers, Scientists, Biologists and some very well respected Professionals that actually have scientific data to support that there are very high rates of wild caught fish that spawn after being handled properly in fact sice the WSC was founded and began studying this the numbers are much higher than previously thought!
I am a member you should be too! ;)
He he :chuckle: that was my best Jim Shockey impersonation :chuckle:
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Hoyt is a egomaniac.Oh and I couldn't agree more!!! :chuckle:
Hoyt countradicts himself often.
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on May 30, 2009, 06:15:05 PM
Post by: huntnphool on May 31, 2009, 10:37:37 PM
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the 3 oversize we caught on smelt were okay because I was not "targeting" them what exactly is the difference?
Give us a break Hoyt, you can try to twist it any way you want, the fact is you are a hypocrite and a lire!!! I suppose you are going to try and tell me that you were fishing an estuary too, :bs: right? not up by the dam like you normally do :rolleyes: You go up by the dam and fish with any bait and you will undoubtedly hook oversize fish, since thats what makes up the majority of the fish in the area anyway, some of us on this site know whats really going on so don't think you are pulling the wool over everyones eyes!!!
Post by: M_ray on May 31, 2009, 11:17:05 PM
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Hoyt is a egomaniac.He said he fishes with 6 inch shad and before he bragged he usually catches 7-8 overersized in a day... what else are you targeting??? :dunno: now he's fishing with small baits and is catching keepers and an ocasional oversized :rolleyes: Yeah we are stupid and don't have enough expierience in this fishery to know what we are talking about???
Hoyt countradicts himself often.