Post by: BTobsession on October 31, 2022, 09:15:53 AM
I must confess, I think this tool would be so fun to have while preseason scouting to help learn were animals are and to improve your glassing abilities. But maybe even that is an unfair advantage.
Thanks for letting me vent and I look forward to hearing others thoughts and ideas on this.
BT
Post by: 3nails on October 31, 2022, 09:38:54 AM
Post by: buckfvr on October 31, 2022, 09:39:08 AM
Post by: Longfield1 on October 31, 2022, 09:40:14 AM
Post by: jrebel on October 31, 2022, 09:41:12 AM
Penalties need to be stiff.....illegally taking big game should be punishable by up to 50-100K and a loss of hunting license for life. You also loose everything in your possession at time of the crime.....truck, rifle, camp, etc., etc., etc. If you thought this could happen....most would think twice.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 31, 2022, 09:41:57 AM
Post by: pickardjw on October 31, 2022, 09:55:51 AM
https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/does-anyone-use-a-thermal-while-scanning-before-switching-to-traditional-optics.282412/
Based on the WA regs, it seems like one could claim they're not hunting before legal shooting light, spot animals, then come back later without the thermal. You'd probably have to make it illegal to have the thermal at all during deer and elk seasons if you're carrying a valid tag. Strengthen the language up a bit.
They jumped on the drone use pretty quick when that technology became easily affordable. Thermal still isn't affordable necessarily but it may need to be addressed anyway.
Post by: Bob33 on October 31, 2022, 10:15:50 AM
RCW 77.15.450
Spotlighting big game—Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the second degree if the person hunts big game with the aid of a spotlight, other artificial light, or night vision equipment while in possession or control of a firearm, bow and arrow, or cross bow. For purposes of this section, "night vision equipment" includes electronic light amplification devices, thermal imaging devices, and other comparable equipment used to enhance night vision.
(2) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the first degree if:
(a) The person has any prior conviction for gross misdemeanor or felony for a crime under this title involving big game including but not limited to subsection (1) of this section or RCW 77.15.410; and
(b) Within ten years of the date that such prior conviction was entered the person commits the act described by subsection (1) of this section.
(3)(a) Spotlighting big game in the second degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke all hunting licenses and tags and order a suspension of the person's hunting privileges for two years.
(b) Spotlighting big game in the first degree is a class C felony. Upon conviction, the department shall order suspension of all privileges to hunt wildlife for a period of ten years.
(4) A person convicted under this section shall be assessed a criminal wildlife penalty assessment as provided in RCW 77.15.420.
Post by: buckfvr on October 31, 2022, 10:18:26 AM
The people that would use thermals for hunting deer and elk illegally are that same people that would shoot deer and elk out of season. To regulate a piece of equipment that has other legal and ethical relevance (i.e. predator hunting....yotes specifically) in a hopes to change unethical hunters is a bad way to go. The better way to go is have stiffer penalties for those that get caught. This is the only way to curb illegal activity. If you stand to loose everything by illegally killing an animal....you may think twice about it. If you know you are only going to get fined and maybe loose your license for a couple years.....these people are willing to take that risk.
Penalties need to be stiff.....illegally taking big game should be punishable by up to 50-100K and a loss of hunting license for life. You also loose everything in your possession at time of the crime.....truck, rifle, camp, etc., etc., etc. If you thought this could happen....most would think twice.
Looks to me like it already falls under the " license suspension and property forfeiture" category, especially if you kill a big game animal.
Post by: jrebel on October 31, 2022, 10:23:36 AM
The people that would use thermals for hunting deer and elk illegally are that same people that would shoot deer and elk out of season. To regulate a piece of equipment that has other legal and ethical relevance (i.e. predator hunting....yotes specifically) in a hopes to change unethical hunters is a bad way to go. The better way to go is have stiffer penalties for those that get caught. This is the only way to curb illegal activity. If you stand to loose everything by illegally killing an animal....you may think twice about it. If you know you are only going to get fined and maybe loose your license for a couple years.....these people are willing to take that risk.
Penalties need to be stiff.....illegally taking big game should be punishable by up to 50-100K and a loss of hunting license for life. You also loose everything in your possession at time of the crime.....truck, rifle, camp, etc., etc., etc. If you thought this could happen....most would think twice.
Looks to me like it already falls under the " license suspension and property forfeiture" category, especially if you kill a big game animal.
It does indeed...but our prosecutors and judges don't hold people accountable and most the time they get off with a slap on the wrist. Make it hurt...and hurt bad...to make people think twice about being stupid. You know....stupid really should hurt, that's how most of us learn.
Post by: BTobsession on October 31, 2022, 10:40:39 AM
Post by: bradslam on October 31, 2022, 10:58:56 AM
Post by: lewy on October 31, 2022, 11:02:15 AM
Post by: Bob33 on October 31, 2022, 11:05:16 AM
https://www.leupold.com/lto-quest-thermal-optic
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 31, 2022, 11:13:39 AM
I don’t know much about the technology, does it work both day and night?
Yes but it has limitations based on quality.
Most units the average Joe will buy are limited in range and accuracy.
We used to run some that where scary good at great distance but they were 10k each unit...
That said they have no place in the world of big game hunting. Imo
Post by: lewy on October 31, 2022, 11:16:19 AM
Post by: pickardjw on October 31, 2022, 11:30:20 AM
"It is illegal to use thermal imaging devices to hunt or locate with the intent to hunt deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose or turkey"
Post by: buckfvr on October 31, 2022, 11:47:53 AM
Like Bob said and I alluded to, it's a question of whether the individual is deemed to be "hunting" while using the device. In my best legalese, I'd change the regs to read something like...
"It is illegal to use thermal imaging devices to hunt or locate with the intent to hunt deer, elk, sheep, goat, moose or turkey"
To use or have in ones possession during any open big game season. Plus its already illegal to hunt after legal hunting hours during any big game season so the "I was hunting coyotes" wont fly.
Post by: Bob33 on October 31, 2022, 12:00:25 PM
Post by: huntnfmly on October 31, 2022, 12:02:59 PM
The irony is that they could be a great tool for finding downed game along the same lines as a blood trailing dog. If people could be trusted to use it only for that...
I believe there are products out there that do just that
I think primos put one out awhile ago
Post by: storyteller on October 31, 2022, 12:03:12 PM
Post by: buckfvr on October 31, 2022, 12:06:46 PM
Post by: dreadi on October 31, 2022, 12:36:38 PM
NV, IR, etc, is just a level that some people believe we shouldn’t use for big game.
I surely would have like to have been able to legally use some a couple nights ago at 6:22pm, under a forest canopy, when I knew for sure it was a buck when looking through binos (magnifying light) but, did not get the same level of light magnification while aiming through my optic and could not get a good visual. He walked.
Post by: MeepDog on October 31, 2022, 12:44:44 PM
Post by: pickardjw on October 31, 2022, 01:04:33 PM
This is a weird topic. I don't think there's anything wrong or illegal about shining a flashlight at a deer. If your intention is to shoot the deer lit up by flashlight, obviously that's completely criminal. I think if you drive out, with no weapons in your possession, and shine a flashlight in a field and see a nice buck, and you set up the next morning and kill that buck in the same field all the more power to you. Maybe I have this wrong, but there's no way an LEO tickets you for looking at deer at night with no weapon because the whole point of the language is to prevent night hunting by poachers. Should we ban IR trail cams that look at deer at night? Protect your rights and report poachers but don't give up your rights in the process. :twocents:
Not sure I'd compare spotlighting deer and using thermal imaging to glass for deer as the same thing.
Post by: IFunk on October 31, 2022, 01:06:17 PM
Throughout history we have used the next advancement of technology to accomplish tasks with greater efficacy and a greater degree of effectiveness.
NV, IR, etc, is just a level that some people believe we shouldn’t use for big game.
I surely would have like to have been able to legally use some a couple nights ago at 6:22pm, under a forest canopy, when I knew for sure it was a buck when looking through binos (magnifying light) but, did not get the same level of light magnification while aiming through my optic and could not get a good visual. He walked.
Sorry to hear that Dana. I would have really liked to have had some miniature defoggers for my glasses and scope on Wednesday night at 6:15pm. A milk chocolate, broad antlered 4-point stepped just out of the timber at 35 yards in pursuit of his girlfriends I had been watching for 2+ hours. Would have been my first harvest. But alas, he walked..
Post by: dreadi on October 31, 2022, 01:14:36 PM
Daaaang. Was the excitement just too much and you got heated up causing all that glass to fog up?Throughout history we have used the next advancement of technology to accomplish tasks with greater efficacy and a greater degree of effectiveness.
NV, IR, etc, is just a level that some people believe we shouldn’t use for big game.
I surely would have like to have been able to legally use some a couple nights ago at 6:22pm, under a forest canopy, when I knew for sure it was a buck when looking through binos (magnifying light) but, did not get the same level of light magnification while aiming through my optic and could not get a good visual. He walked.
Sorry to hear that Dana. I would have really liked to have had some miniature defoggers for my glasses and scope on Wednesday night at 6:15pm. A milk chocolate, broad antlered 4-point stepped just out of the timber at 35 yards in pursuit of his girlfriends I had been watching for 2+ hours. Would have been my first harvest. But alas, he walked..
Post by: MeepDog on October 31, 2022, 01:30:43 PM
Post by: IFunk on October 31, 2022, 01:31:05 PM
I think that was a major contributing factor! And Western Washington precipitation. 8)Daaaang. Was the excitement just too much and you got heated up causing all that glass to fog up?Throughout history we have used the next advancement of technology to accomplish tasks with greater efficacy and a greater degree of effectiveness.
NV, IR, etc, is just a level that some people believe we shouldn’t use for big game.
I surely would have like to have been able to legally use some a couple nights ago at 6:22pm, under a forest canopy, when I knew for sure it was a buck when looking through binos (magnifying light) but, did not get the same level of light magnification while aiming through my optic and could not get a good visual. He walked.
Sorry to hear that Dana. I would have really liked to have had some miniature defoggers for my glasses and scope on Wednesday night at 6:15pm. A milk chocolate, broad antlered 4-point stepped just out of the timber at 35 yards in pursuit of his girlfriends I had been watching for 2+ hours. Would have been my first harvest. But alas, he walked..
Post by: storyteller on October 31, 2022, 01:43:35 PM
With that said, advancement of technology is kind of hurting our sport. Thermal for big game, drones, the list goes on
Something to think about.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on October 31, 2022, 03:34:17 PM
So as it stands currently. With no intent to kill an animal, can you use thermal to scout fields at night time? :dunno:You can’t have weapons on you unless hunting for predators …….?
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on October 31, 2022, 09:17:14 PM
The Leupold Quest was being marketed in part to track bloodtrail of an animal that you had shot. If it was only used for tracking , is that really different than using a dog on leash to track the animal?Yea, but they didn’t show downed animals or blood trails in the ads, it was always a live elk, funny how that works.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: ghosthunter on October 31, 2022, 10:04:30 PM
Every year better scopes, binoculars, atv, electric bikes, see through blinds, drones, shooting 300 plus yards. Trail cameras with cellular service. Where does it end. I think it’s time to step back and get back to hunting basics.
I use some of these items because I can, but I would not miss them if they were banned.
At what point do we become too effective in killing, how much more technology’s can the game with stand?
Post by: birdshooter1189 on November 01, 2022, 06:59:32 AM
I think it’s time to put a end to some of this stuff and just straight out ,out law it during hunting seasons. With low game numbers and a huge number of hunters seeking them. It’s just time to pull the plug on a lot of this stuff.
Every year better scopes, binoculars, atv, electric bikes, see through blinds, drones, shooting 300 plus yards. Trail cameras with cellular service. Where does it end. I think it’s time to step back and get back to hunting basics.
I use some of these items because I can, but I would not miss them if they were banned.
At what point do we become too effective in killing, how much more technology’s can the game with stand?
In my opinion, in some cases, technology has already exceeded what the game can withstand. That is why we limit harvest to, for example, 1 deer/elk per hunter per year. Some animals, like coyotes, don't have bag limits because hunters and technology haven't yet exceeded what they can stand.
With animals like deer and elk, where technology has already exceeded the game, we solve the problem by placing limits on the harvest. A hunter can choose to hunt with muzzle loader, archery, or modern firearms. The seasons are timed to offset the advantages gained by technology. And there are still limits on the number of animals each hunter can harvest in a season regardless of the method used.
Some people already have superior equipment than what I have.....bows, rifles, scopes, binoculars, spotting scopes, outfitted trucks, e-bikes, etc. I have no problem with that. We all follow the same set of hunting rules. I also have no problem with people using thermal and night vision scopes for big game. However I don't think night hunting (for deer and elk) should be allowed because of it.
My solution: keep the legal daylight hunting hours the same as they are now, and allow whatever optic you want to use--scope, red dot sight, night vision, thermal, lights, etc.
Post by: buckfvr on November 01, 2022, 08:40:56 AM
Post by: buckfvr on November 01, 2022, 08:55:33 AM
So as it stands currently. With no intent to kill an animal, can you use thermal to scout fields at night time? :dunno:You can’t have weapons on you unless hunting for predators …….?
Its illegal to spotlight or use thermals etc. during any big game season, even coyotes have to be hunted during legal hunting hours.
Post by: Bob33 on November 01, 2022, 09:43:43 AM
I'm not aware of any restriction against spotlighting during big game seasons as long as the person is not in possession or control of a firearm, bow and arrow, or cross bow.So as it stands currently. With no intent to kill an animal, can you use thermal to scout fields at night time? :dunno:You can’t have weapons on you unless hunting for predators …….?
Its illegal to spotlight or use thermals etc. during any big game season, even coyotes have to be hunted during legal hunting hours.
Post by: huntingfool7 on November 01, 2022, 09:47:29 AM
I don’t know much about the technology, does it work both day and night?
Yes but it has limitations based on quality.
Most units the average Joe will buy are limited in range and accuracy.
We used to run some that where scary good at great distance but they were 10k each unit...
That said they have no place in the world of big game hunting. Imo
I don't see how it would be useful during the day. Once the sun comes up and warms the trees, stumps and rocks, there are a bunch of objects glowing. Very little if any upside to daylight use of thermal and a lot of down side when compared to quality daylight optics.
The Leupold Quest was being marketed in part to track bloodtrail of an animal that you had shot. If it was only used for tracking , is that really different than using a dog on leash to track the animal?Yea, but they didn’t show downed animals or blood trails in the ads, it was always a live elk, funny how that works.
Night hunting for big game is normal in parts of Europe. That is where many of these products are produced and utilized (if not Chinese). It is not surprising that red stags and hogs are used in a lot of the advertisements when you realize where it comes from.
Post by: Bob33 on November 01, 2022, 10:42:23 AM
These units work by detecting differences in thermal readings. As such they work best when ambient temperatures are consistent such as at night or during cloudy days. For finding animals they would work better in cooler temperatures because the difference is greater.
Here are a couple photos taken near my home. The second one is dog pee; I suspect this could work on blood from an animal if it were still warm enough relative to ambient temperature.
Post by: fishnfur on November 02, 2022, 07:53:55 PM
Post by: fisheral87 on December 16, 2022, 01:13:35 PM
Al
Post by: Bob33 on December 16, 2022, 01:39:12 PM
Anyone know for sure if it is illegal to use drone/thermal for recovering downed animals in WA?Illegal on both counts. You can't legally hunt with a drone or thermal imaging.
Al
Post by: pickardjw on December 16, 2022, 02:02:02 PM
To Hunt: Any effort to kill, capture, injure, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
Not a lawyer but...if you can't use dogs to hunt big game, but you can use dogs to track wounded game, I would interpret that to mean that a wounded animal has already been "hunted". Therefore, using a drone or thermal imaging to track it would not be illegal. :dunno:
Anyone ever discussed either with a warden?
This guy's videos have been popping up in my feeds for a few weeks now. Pretty cool.
https://www.dronedeerrecovery.com/videos-and-resources
Post by: buckfvr on December 16, 2022, 02:15:51 PM
Anyone know for sure if it is illegal to use drone/thermal for recovering downed animals in WA?
Al
If it was only "downed", as in wounded and not dead, if you found it you couldnt kill it, even with a dog.
Post by: Bob33 on December 16, 2022, 02:28:38 PM
Would you not consider that as an animal that has already been hunted?If you know the animal is dead, you shouldn't need a drone or thermal to find it because you must know where it is to confirm it's dead. I think the change in regulations allowing the use of dogs is flawed by the same argument. You are using a dog to look for an animal you believe is dead but may not be.
To Hunt: Any effort to kill, capture, injure, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
Not a lawyer but...if you can't use dogs to hunt big game, but you can use dogs to track wounded game, I would interpret that to mean that a wounded animal has already been "hunted". Therefore, using a drone or thermal imaging to track it would not be illegal. :dunno:
Anyone ever discussed either with a warden?
This guy's videos have been popping up in my feeds for a few weeks now. Pretty cool.
https://www.dronedeerrecovery.com/videos-and-resources
A legal exception has been made to allow the use of dogs to search for a wounded animal but no exception has been made for the use of drones or thermal imaging yet so they are still illegal.
Post by: pickardjw on December 16, 2022, 02:52:38 PM
The thermal imaging drone recovery stuff is pretty cool. Might not be as effective in parts of WA but it seems to be pretty effective in the midwest. Probably nice to only have to ask for permission once to retrieve a deer from the neighbors.
Post by: emac on December 16, 2022, 03:28:50 PM
Not 100% true. Just during regular modern deer and elk seasons. You can still spotlight for yotes, bobcats and whatever else during archery, muzzy and special permit seasons. Except for bobcats in those certain gmu'sSo as it stands currently. With no intent to kill an animal, can you use thermal to scout fields at night time? :dunno:You can’t have weapons on you unless hunting for predators …….?
Its illegal to spotlight or use thermals etc. during any big game season, even coyotes have to be hunted during legal hunting hours.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Post by: dandjclements on February 10, 2023, 07:28:45 PM
Post by: huntingfool7 on February 11, 2023, 10:58:34 AM
I think it’s time to put a end to some of this stuff and just straight out ,out law it during hunting seasons. With low game numbers and a huge number of hunters seeking them. It’s just time to pull the plug on a lot of this stuff.
Every year better scopes, binoculars, atv, electric bikes, see through blinds, drones, shooting 300 plus yards. Trail cameras with cellular service. Where does it end. I think it’s time to step back and get back to hunting basics.
I use some of these items because I can, but I would not miss them if they were banned.
At what point do we become too effective in killing, how much more technology’s can the game with stand?
Has any of that stuff increased the success rate even a fraction of a percent?
By and large the success rates in Washington are best described as static or unchanged from historical levels. It's looking for a solution to a non issue.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 11, 2023, 11:30:01 AM
Post by: hunter399 on February 11, 2023, 11:37:52 AM
But will say ,technology is getting better by the second.
Some of it needs to be addressed quickly.
There is no way I'm going to depend on anybody these days to be accountable or ethical in any way.
Post by: GWP on February 11, 2023, 11:41:33 AM
I never have understood the restrictions on recovery. My feeling is if it will help recover a critter, let people use it. Dogs particularly.
Post by: huntingfool7 on February 11, 2023, 11:59:44 AM
Bringing in any new tech is always a slippery slope. I stopped black powder hunting in Washington, and was very surprised how much was allowed when I looked into it again. Not sure if it is good or bad. Both I guess.
I never have understood the restrictions on recovery. My feeling is if it will help recover a critter, let people use it. Dogs particularly.
Need a "like" button for posts like this.
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 11, 2023, 01:44:06 PM
No argument from me.
But will say ,technology is getting better by the second.
Some of it needs to be addressed quickly.
There is no way I'm going to depend on anybody these days to be accountable or ethical in any way.
Thermal imaging has been around for a while, hence the exclusion in the regs. Ethics are subjective. To you, ethics means one thing. To someone else, another. I use a compound bow. To a trad hunter, that may be unethical. I, however, consider my ethics intact. Game cameras, certain MLs, using an AR to hunt - all of new tech is unethical to some and not to others. I would say that the important thing for all hunters is to support each other in legal hunting and leave the ethical dilemmas for each to sort out on their own. :twocents:
Post by: idaho guy on February 11, 2023, 02:04:01 PM
Post by: idaho guy on February 11, 2023, 02:25:36 PM
I think it’s time to put a end to some of this stuff and just straight out ,out law it during hunting seasons. With low game numbers and a huge number of hunters seeking them. It’s just time to pull the plug on a lot of this stuff.
Every year better scopes, binoculars, atv, electric bikes, see through blinds, drones, shooting 300 plus yards. Trail cameras with cellular service. Where does it end. I think it’s time to step back and get back to hunting basics.
I use some of these items because I can, but I would not miss them if they were banned.
At what point do we become too effective in killing, how much more technology’s can the game with stand?
I agree with this but actually bought some cell cams ha ha. It’s hard not to take advantage especially as I get older and lazier. I think we are losing a lot of woodmanshio skills like reading sign. I find myself missing just taking off with no trail cam pictures or on x maps etc. I will still just take off into new areas and try to find what is there by just looking at rubs, scrapes tracks and figuring out their trails. Despite having trail camera picks of nice bucks elsewhere. Technology is making the kill easier and at the same time It feels like we are losing a big part of the actual hunt to technology. But I still use it.
Post by: huntingfool7 on February 11, 2023, 03:31:02 PM
I must not have had a good one but it cost 3000 I think. I specifically wanted to try one in daylight hours. It was November and snowy. Idaho we can use them in certain areas for wolves and of course coyotes. I have never used thermal to hunt and don’t intend to but was mostly curious. I looked at our horses in the mostly open pasture and they stuck out like neon lights. They were 50-80 yards out. I looked in the thick woods behind my house and EVERYTHING was lit up trees, stumps etc. they hold apparently a fair amount of heat. There is usually always a few deer back there and nothing stood out. I also tried to see my hounds in their kennel which is surrounded by trees and thick brush and they did not stand out. I decided to check some other places. I glassed a little farther away timber patch that I knew elk were in and just saw a bunch of white trees. I feel like I could pick out the tip of an antler, leg, and other small parts of elk/deer better with good binoculars than I could with thermal in the day time. Has anyone used thermal in the day time and thick stuff and found it to be effective? I almost forgot but I glassed some deer in a far away field also and the thermal showed little to nothing. It could have all been operator error but I found no advantage during daylight hours. I can’t remember brand but it was supposed to be effective beyond 1000 yards. I realize I might be too dumb on how to use one but I found no advantage? Friend of a friend is how I tried them and the guy I was talking too had little experience with thermal also. We might be getting worried about some huge advantage that doesn’t exist in daylight hours? Or it’s a huge unfair advantage and I’m just don’t know what I am doing 😂. I was wondering if they worked in early fall better where the trees and stumps aren’t holding a lot more heat than the surrounding air? I don’t know but I’m interested in other experiences. Thermal might not be an issue for daytime hunting and hunting at night is already illegal. Maybe it’s not a problem
Pretty well sums it up. Those that are concerned, have not used thermal.
I've shot some coyotes during daylight hours with thermal. All of those daylight coyotes were spotted with the naked eye before thermal was put on them. Daylight scanning with thermal is an exercise in futility...at night, especially well after the trees and rocks have cooled down... there's nothing better.
Post by: follow maggie on February 26, 2023, 02:02:01 PM
I must not have had a good one but it cost 3000 I think. I specifically wanted to try one in daylight hours. It was November and snowy. Idaho we can use them in certain areas for wolves and of course coyotes. I have never used thermal to hunt and don’t intend to but was mostly curious. I looked at our horses in the mostly open pasture and they stuck out like neon lights. They were 50-80 yards out. I looked in the thick woods behind my house and EVERYTHING was lit up trees, stumps etc. they hold apparently a fair amount of heat. There is usually always a few deer back there and nothing stood out. I also tried to see my hounds in their kennel which is surrounded by trees and thick brush and they did not stand out. I decided to check some other places. I glassed a little farther away timber patch that I knew elk were in and just saw a bunch of white trees. I feel like I could pick out the tip of an antler, leg, and other small parts of elk/deer better with good binoculars than I could with thermal in the day time. Has anyone used thermal in the day time and thick stuff and found it to be effective? I almost forgot but I glassed some deer in a far away field also and the thermal showed little to nothing. It could have all been operator error but I found no advantage during daylight hours. I can’t remember brand but it was supposed to be effective beyond 1000 yards. I realize I might be too dumb on how to use one but I found no advantage? Friend of a friend is how I tried them and the guy I was talking too had little experience with thermal also. We might be getting worried about some huge advantage that doesn’t exist in daylight hours? Or it’s a huge unfair advantage and I’m just don’t know what I am doing 😂. I was wondering if they worked in early fall better where the trees and stumps aren’t holding a lot more heat than the surrounding air? I don’t know but I’m interested in other experiences. Thermal might not be an issue for daytime hunting and hunting at night is already illegal. Maybe it’s not a problem
I used to use infrared a lot for work, even paid for professional training & bought a very good quality camera. What you describe is exactly how infrared works. It’s not useful during daylight hours, even a thick fog can keep you from seeing things. It doesn’t see through walls like people think from watching movies, and it’s not going to find a deer hiding in the middle of a bunch of trees from your truck. For finding animals it’s useful in the dark in open areas & the angle of the lense will determine how far you can see.