Thermal hunting blacktail or any big game

[BTobsession]

By now I'm sure everyone here has seen first hand or at least heard stories about people (not hunters) using thermal to kill bucks. I cannot stop thinking about this. To me, the advantages this gives people is unbelievably unfair to both the game we persue and lawful hunters. Finding unexpecting deer in thick stuff, fog, dark seems worse then spotlighting, and In my mind is even less sporting. I find myself fuming anytime I hear third hand stories, or even quietly suspect the use of thermal to kill. I spend a lot of time wondering how is this being handled by wdfw, how can they inforce it? I seems like it would be almost impossible to inforce. I mean how much different does a guy look when he pulls up to an overgrown clearcut, scans it with his thermal then drives off compared to a hunter that does the same with binos? I really don't want to turn this topic into a sh÷$!@ow but really want to know what other hunters think about the use of thermal and how to regulate it. In my mind this problem is only going to get worst and is going to jeopardize the true sportsmanship of hunting.
I must confess, I think this tool would be so fun to have while preseason scouting to help learn were animals are and to improve your glassing abilities. But maybe even that is an unfair advantage.
Thanks for letting me vent and I look forward to hearing others thoughts and ideas on this.
BT

[3nails]

 This is really a thing? Never heard of it.

[buckfvr]

https://www.eregulations.com/washington/hunting/prohibited-hunting-methods/

[Longfield1]

There pretty expensive for a good set of thermal binos. If your hunting open country could definitely be a game change albeit illegal.

[jrebel]

The people that would use thermals for hunting deer and elk illegally are that same people that would shoot deer and elk out of season.  To regulate a piece of equipment that has other legal and ethical relevance (i.e. predator hunting....yotes specifically) in a hopes to change unethical hunters is a bad way to go.  The better way to go is have stiffer penalties for those that get caught.  This is the only way to curb illegal activity.  If you stand to loose everything by illegally killing an animal....you may think twice about it.  If you know you are only going to get fined and maybe loose your license for a couple years.....these people are willing to take that risk. 

Penalties need to be stiff.....illegally taking big game should be punishable by up to 50-100K and a loss of hunting license for life.  You also loose everything in your possession at time of the crime.....truck, rifle, camp, etc., etc., etc.  If you thought this could happen....most would think twice. 

[Magnum_Willys]

Yea you can scan a clearcut for elk out to a mile.  But legally no different than using spotlights except much greater visibility and impossible to detect whereas spotlights are obvious.

[pickardjw]

This came up on Rokslide recently too and resulted in a pretty spirited discussion.

https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/does-anyone-use-a-thermal-while-scanning-before-switching-to-traditional-optics.282412/

Based on the WA regs, it seems like one could claim they're not hunting before legal shooting light, spot animals, then come back later without the thermal. You'd probably have to make it illegal to have the thermal at all during deer and elk seasons if you're carrying a valid tag. Strengthen the language up a bit.

They jumped on the drone use pretty quick when that technology became easily affordable. Thermal still isn't affordable necessarily but it may need to be addressed anyway.

[Bob33]

It is considered spotlighting and if used while hunting big game it is not legal. The question of whether the person is hunting is the issue.

RCW 77.15.450

Spotlighting big game—Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the second degree if the person hunts big game with the aid of a spotlight, other artificial light, or night vision equipment while in possession or control of a firearm, bow and arrow, or cross bow. For purposes of this section, "night vision equipment" includes electronic light amplification devices, thermal imaging devices, and other comparable equipment used to enhance night vision.
(2) A person is guilty of spotlighting big game in the first degree if:
(a) The person has any prior conviction for gross misdemeanor or felony for a crime under this title involving big game including but not limited to subsection (1) of this section or RCW 77.15.410; and
(b) Within ten years of the date that such prior conviction was entered the person commits the act described by subsection (1) of this section.
(3)(a) Spotlighting big game in the second degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke all hunting licenses and tags and order a suspension of the person's hunting privileges for two years.
(b) Spotlighting big game in the first degree is a class C felony. Upon conviction, the department shall order suspension of all privileges to hunt wildlife for a period of ten years.
(4) A person convicted under this section shall be assessed a criminal wildlife penalty assessment as provided in RCW 77.15.420.

[buckfvr]

The people that would use thermals for hunting deer and elk illegally are that same people that would shoot deer and elk out of season.  To regulate a piece of equipment that has other legal and ethical relevance (i.e. predator hunting....yotes specifically) in a hopes to change unethical hunters is a bad way to go.  The better way to go is have stiffer penalties for those that get caught.  This is the only way to curb illegal activity.  If you stand to loose everything by illegally killing an animal....you may think twice about it.  If you know you are only going to get fined and maybe loose your license for a couple years.....these people are willing to take that risk. 

Penalties need to be stiff.....illegally taking big game should be punishable by up to 50-100K and a loss of hunting license for life.  You also loose everything in your possession at time of the crime.....truck, rifle, camp, etc., etc., etc.  If you thought this could happen....most would think twice.

Looks to me like it already falls under the " license suspension and property forfeiture" category, especially if you kill a big game animal.

[jrebel]

The people that would use thermals for hunting deer and elk illegally are that same people that would shoot deer and elk out of season.  To regulate a piece of equipment that has other legal and ethical relevance (i.e. predator hunting....yotes specifically) in a hopes to change unethical hunters is a bad way to go.  The better way to go is have stiffer penalties for those that get caught.  This is the only way to curb illegal activity.  If you stand to loose everything by illegally killing an animal....you may think twice about it.  If you know you are only going to get fined and maybe loose your license for a couple years.....these people are willing to take that risk. 

Penalties need to be stiff.....illegally taking big game should be punishable by up to 50-100K and a loss of hunting license for life.  You also loose everything in your possession at time of the crime.....truck, rifle, camp, etc., etc., etc.  If you thought this could happen....most would think twice.

Looks to me like it already falls under the " license suspension and property forfeiture" category, especially if you kill a big game animal.

It does indeed...but our prosecutors and judges don't hold people accountable and most the time they get off with a slap on the wrist.  Make it hurt...and hurt bad...to make people think twice about being stupid.  You know....stupid really should hurt, that's how most of us learn. 

[BTobsession]

Thanks for the replies. I agree a way to curb it would be harsh penalties, and that it needs to be nipped now before it gets out of hand, due to it getting to a point where most can afford it. but I worry that this problem is already way worse then we already know.

[bradslam]

We use thermal imaging in the fire service. The price of the devices has come down significantly over the years and they will only become more affordable, which will lead to this becoming more commonplace. Game agencies need to bring the hammer on their use.

[lewy]

I don’t know much about the technology, does it work both day and night?

[Bob33]

There are items like this under $500 now that can identify big game animals several hundred yards away depending on conditions.

https://www.leupold.com/lto-quest-thermal-optic

[fishngamereaper]

I don’t know much about the technology, does it work both day and night?

Yes but it has limitations based on quality.
Most units the average Joe will buy are limited in range and accuracy.
We used to run some that where scary good at great distance but they were 10k each unit...

That said they have no place in the world of big game hunting. Imo