Post by: vandeman17 on December 13, 2022, 08:07:34 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 13, 2022, 08:12:58 AM
Post by: HUNT JR on December 13, 2022, 08:18:19 AM
With the likely huge increase in the special app prices in 2024, who all is looking into "trying" to burn their points in 2023? My old man and I have 9 each and I would love to burn them this year given that draw odds for regular will get even worse going forward along with the limited amount of years my Pops likely has left to do the types of hunts we want to do. I have a few units in mind that we are close on given point creep so I am trying to decide if I want to just go general and ensure drawing or send it on a limited entry permit.
You could likely draw a bighorns unit and at least have a limited entry feel vs the general hunt. Your problem is dealing with guys like me with 12 points who are effectively in no mans land.
Post by: vandeman17 on December 13, 2022, 08:28:36 AM
With the likely huge increase in the special app prices in 2024, who all is looking into "trying" to burn their points in 2023? My old man and I have 9 each and I would love to burn them this year given that draw odds for regular will get even worse going forward along with the limited amount of years my Pops likely has left to do the types of hunts we want to do. I have a few units in mind that we are close on given point creep so I am trying to decide if I want to just go general and ensure drawing or send it on a limited entry permit.
You could likely draw a bighorns unit and at least have a limited entry feel vs the general hunt. Your problem is dealing with guys like me with 12 points who are effectively in no mans land.
Agreed. I feel like that 8-12 point range is the tweener zone and you will never really catch up. My biggest hurdle is my work schedule being where I pretty much can't be away from October 20th or so through November 20th. :bash:
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 13, 2022, 09:14:03 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 13, 2022, 09:35:23 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 13, 2022, 11:43:40 AM
Lots of good units in the 8-12 range gents. Get to hunting! For some weird reason my daughter really wants to shoot a bull so I'm likely gonna sacrifice all my points to float us on some general tags. Still trying to figure out where I failed as a father :chuckle:
You should whitetail hunt too while you are at it... :chuckle:
Post by: Jpmiller on December 13, 2022, 12:20:08 PM
I mean, the general units are so bad I would definitely try for a limited draw tag. Dont waste your time on a general tag.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 13, 2022, 12:32:46 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 13, 2022, 12:49:30 PM
Post by: ganghis on December 13, 2022, 01:29:56 PM
4 or 5 points for elk, general tag for me, just looking for a unit that isn't over run with non residents.... lol.
Take your pick - non-residents or grizzlies :chuckle:
Post by: Ridgerunner on December 13, 2022, 02:02:14 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 13, 2022, 02:17:51 PM
Sitting on max, don't think I will spend them in 2023 but soon I plan too.
Send it!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 13, 2022, 02:21:12 PM
Lots of good units in the 8-12 range gents. Get to hunting! For some weird reason my daughter really wants to shoot a bull so I'm likely gonna sacrifice all my points to float us on some general tags. Still trying to figure out where I failed as a father :chuckle:
You should whitetail hunt too while you are at it... :chuckle:
Post by: OltHunter on December 13, 2022, 02:51:41 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 13, 2022, 02:56:33 PM
What was the last update on increases? wasn't the big increases for the special draw only? Regular draw is the same cost. Other than non-resident availability going down the tank to residents and outfitters.
Correct and with that increase, it is probable that more guys will enter the regular draw, me included given that special will be close to $2k just for an elk tag. Add to that if they pass the 10% non resident cap it will get tough to draw anything
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 13, 2022, 03:08:35 PM
What was the last update on increases? wasn't the big increases for the special draw only? Regular draw is the same cost. Other than non-resident availability going down the tank to residents and outfitters.
Correct and with that increase, it is probable that more guys will enter the regular draw, me included given that special will be close to $2k just for an elk tag. Add to that if they pass the 10% non resident cap it will get tough to draw anything
The latest update is that Randy Newberg just did a segment on Youtube saying that the legislature is going to pass this, and burn your points this year if you can.
Post by: vandeman17 on December 13, 2022, 03:10:29 PM
What was the last update on increases? wasn't the big increases for the special draw only? Regular draw is the same cost. Other than non-resident availability going down the tank to residents and outfitters.
Correct and with that increase, it is probable that more guys will enter the regular draw, me included given that special will be close to $2k just for an elk tag. Add to that if they pass the 10% non resident cap it will get tough to draw anything
The latest update is that Randy Newberg just did a segment on Youtube saying that the legislature is going to pass this, and burn your points this year if you can.
I watched his piece this weekend and it is really informative. It is funny that through all his platforms, he very very very rarely mentions hunting in Washington or gives any tips on it :chuckle:
Post by: D-Rock425 on December 13, 2022, 03:21:08 PM
Lots of good units in the 8-12 range gents. Get to hunting! For some weird reason my daughter really wants to shoot a bull so I'm likely gonna sacrifice all my points to float us on some general tags. Still trying to figure out where I failed as a father :chuckle:this makes me oh so happy. :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:
Post by: Jpmiller on December 13, 2022, 09:12:39 PM
What was the last update on increases? wasn't the big increases for the special draw only? Regular draw is the same cost. Other than non-resident availability going down the tank to residents and outfitters.
Correct and with that increase, it is probable that more guys will enter the regular draw, me included given that special will be close to $2k just for an elk tag. Add to that if they pass the 10% non resident cap it will get tough to draw anything
The latest update is that Randy Newberg just did a segment on Youtube saying that the legislature is going to pass this, and burn your points this year if you can.
I watched his piece this weekend and it is really informative. It is funny that through all his platforms, he very very very rarely mentions hunting in Washington or gives any tips on it :chuckle:
That's how you know he's a credible source
Post by: dvolmer on December 13, 2022, 09:13:02 PM
There was a unit that I really wanted to draw but I was always a point behind in the special and two points behind in the normal so I applied for the unit I have been trying to get for the last two years and barely missing. This last year Point Creep reversed in this unit and I could have drawn the normal or the special tag last year if I would have applied for it. Another guy on this forum drew that unit a few years back and shot a nice bull. So weird things can happen no matter how much studying the draw odds you do from year to year. Also when something like this happens, don't count on it happening again the following year because a lot of people are following it closely and will try to jump on a unit that happened to go low the year before.
In most instances, no matter how many points you are sitting on, you have the best odds at drawing a unit now then in the future. Only 20% of the guys buying points are actually applying for tags. That is 80% of guys sitting on their points. Changes in the system like we are seeing will bring more of the sitters out of the closet and applying for tags. If just 30% of the point buyers applied this year instead of 20% it would blow all of the research and odds out of the water with massive point creep in just one year. In my personal opinion (and it isn't worth much) I don't think that 90/10 is coming to elk/deer/antelope anytime soon if ever in Wyoming. It was shot down hard by the task force. Fee increases will be coming for sure and they will continue to go higher. Special is going up this next year but regular will follow. They are also looking at changing the quota distribution from 60% normal and 40% special to a 50/50 split. There is some talk also of getting rid of special and normal and going to one tag price only but that is a ways away if it happens at all. Good luck to you all! I am hoping that third times the charm for me but with my luck it probably wont!
Post by: trophyhunt on December 14, 2022, 06:46:15 AM
Post by: Stein on December 14, 2022, 06:57:39 AM
Post by: Craig on December 14, 2022, 08:00:14 AM
Post by: dvolmer on December 14, 2022, 01:53:03 PM
Put in your first choice for whatever area you have been wanting to hunt with your points you currently have. in your second choice, put in unit 007-2. This hunt is a bull hunt in unit 7 that has a restriction of at least one antler side having 5 points or less. you can shoot a rag horn bull or a big 5 point. You can shoot a 5x6 if you find one. There were a total of 40 regular and 18 special NR 007-2 tags last year and not one was applied for in the first round drawing. For the last 3 years since the 007-2 was created they have been sold in the leftover drawing and over the counter. There is one thing that makes the hunt a little bit challenging, is the season is from Nov 21 thru Dec 31 so it is a late hunt and weather could be a challenge. If you put in for this you will draw it every year and it wont cost you any of your first choice points. You can also apply for one of the Reduced Price antler-less tags and you have roughly a 50% chance of drawing a cow tag in unit 7. this would give you a cow and a bull tag in your pocket that you can use.
Now i don't normally post specific unit hunts on the forum but felt this should be put out there because NO one is doing it and the tags are there for the taking. Just an option if you feel your never going to draw. Most guys that draw the general tag would be tickled to come home from Wyoming with a nice 5 point and this is the kind of bull that you shoot in most general areas with an average area having about a 20-30% harvest rate of success. it takes 4 years of waiting to draw a general tag. You could go every year with 007-2 and it will cost you no points and is obtainable every year in the cheaper regular draw as a second choice. Once again, a second choice draw does not zero out your points. Just something to think about.
Post by: cem3434 on December 14, 2022, 07:25:58 PM
Post by: dvolmer on December 14, 2022, 09:23:19 PM
Have you ever done this hunt dvolmer?I haven’t. I just fell upon it in my studying and research. It intrigues me but I am leery of the weather traveling from Washington to Wyoming in late November but I am seriously considering it in the future. The hunt is consolidated to one county in unit 7 but it looks like that county is in some good elk country. I think the hunt has only been going on for 3 years now. First year it was 4 point or smaller. The last two years they have raised that to 5 point or smaller.
Post by: bobcat on December 14, 2022, 10:42:29 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 15, 2022, 06:12:55 AM
Post by: Chesapeake on December 15, 2022, 06:40:16 AM
Lose lips sink ships.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 15, 2022, 04:43:59 PM
Lots of private in area 7 and with the late season, snow could make it difficult to access the small amount of public land there is. Could still be a decent hunt, I just think that's the issue and the reason it's an easier draw.
Sounds like a tag that was put together to help landowners that are having trouble with elk herds. Bet'cha you get there and find that every elk is crowded into private grounds. Prolly a great hunt if you can get access... :dunno:
Post by: cem3434 on December 15, 2022, 06:22:54 PM
Post by: Benny on December 15, 2022, 06:46:31 PM
Post by: dvolmer on December 15, 2022, 06:47:48 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on December 15, 2022, 11:51:31 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 16, 2022, 07:22:06 AM
There's no secrets to Unit 7. It's a great archery hunt most years. And usually a tough rifle hunt most years. A late rifle hunt is going to be even tougher. Private is the problem. And unless you want to pay the Wagonhound for access you are most likely SOL.
Anyone know what the going rate for accessing Wagonhound land is?
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 16, 2022, 08:06:09 AM
There's no secrets to Unit 7. It's a great archery hunt most years. And usually a tough rifle hunt most years. A late rifle hunt is going to be even tougher. Private is the problem. And unless you want to pay the Wagonhound for access you are most likely SOL.
Anyone know what the going rate for accessing Wagonhound land is?
Looks like 12 grand gets you access for 5 days plus a helper :chuckle:
Post by: templar021 on December 16, 2022, 07:45:42 PM
Post by: High Climber on December 16, 2022, 09:14:47 PM
I hunted wyoming unit 7 this fall. Had a cow down by 10am opening morning. It tested positive for CWD .That sucks. So what is the protocol with that?
Post by: templar021 on December 17, 2022, 09:50:02 AM
Post by: CaNINE on December 17, 2022, 05:01:49 PM
Good question. WA requires deer and elk to be deboned before being brought into state. Health recommends not eating meat. But no known cases of cervix to human transmission. If I'm the first case, I'll be famous! I canned most of the elk. Had a couple round steaks, kinda tough. Hoping backstraps are better. My pronghorn was better.
Yeah I wish pronghorn were as big as elk.
Post by: dvolmer on December 18, 2022, 04:03:19 PM
I am sorry guys, I have to pipe in here on this, I have shot 5 or 6 pronghorn over the years and my share of elk. To compare pronghorn meat to elk is crazy!! Not even close in my opinion! :twocents:Good question. WA requires deer and elk to be deboned before being brought into state. Health recommends not eating meat. But no known cases of cervix to human transmission. If I'm the first case, I'll be famous! I canned most of the elk. Had a couple round steaks, kinda tough. Hoping backstraps are better. My pronghorn was better.
Yeah I wish pronghorn were as big as elk.
Post by: Stein on December 18, 2022, 05:47:27 PM
I'll gladly take either.
Back on topic, our antelope options look bleak for our points so it will probably be either elk or mulies on our application this year.
Post by: actionshooter on December 18, 2022, 09:12:18 PM
Point creep is going to be huge this year, even if only 10% of the point collectors try to cash in, it's going to be felt.
Figured I would cash out on the elk, but I'm not finding anything that yet that fits the bill... As much as I hate to say Wa modern deer takes point, I need to be here for the kids, so mid october is out.
Post by: CaNINE on December 20, 2022, 05:09:50 AM
Post by: ipkus on December 20, 2022, 06:19:00 AM
Post by: KDB on December 21, 2022, 08:31:40 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 21, 2022, 10:21:24 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 21, 2022, 10:34:51 AM
Are the bighorns void of grizz?
Not void but they aren't dense at all. I have talked to a handful of people who have hunted a few of those units and none saw any or any sign of them
Post by: Dark2Dark on December 26, 2022, 04:13:33 PM
I think I have 8 deer and pronghorn points, also. Will the impact for NR’s be as bad there?
Figuring out where to go is tricky. I think I have some general ideas. :-/ sounds like a drop camp with an outfitter is unlikely, so a DIY roadside camp is probably where we will be. I know a few guys that have hunted it and suggested GMUs. I think one issue is any part of Wyoming is better than just about any WA hunting experience. Any suggestions via PM are welcome, though.
Post by: finnman on December 31, 2022, 07:57:54 PM
With all of the nastiness coming around the corner for Non-Res hunters, we’re getting out in 2 years.
2023 is my wife and buddy, they are going guided unit 7 bull hunt.
2024 I will be going guided bull hunt unit 7 or 108.
Time to burn and move on. I regret saving our points for so long and not hunting general areas. Some great bulls are killed every year in general areas.
I look forward to hunting them in the future and waiting less years between hunts.
Post by: Stein on December 31, 2022, 08:11:17 PM
Post by: jjhunter on December 31, 2022, 08:21:00 PM
Post by: actionshooter on January 01, 2023, 07:43:13 PM
Hopefully you guys get your tags, might be a lot of guys off the bench that didn't work into the numbers in prior years. We could see some truly epic temporary point creep.Do you think it's temporary? Never seen point creep down...
Post by: trophyhunt on January 01, 2023, 08:23:47 PM
Post by: cem3434 on January 01, 2023, 11:06:38 PM
Hopefully you guys get your tags, might be a lot of guys off the bench that didn't work into the numbers in prior years. We could see some truly epic temporary point creep.Do you think it's temporary? Never seen point creep down...
It's not points creep per se, it's more of a points dump year for most as they arent willing to pay the proposed higher NR fees. So yes, I would say its temporary and will only last this year. I'm on the fence with 12 points if I should hold my points because think of the potential tags that will be available to me next year. :twocents:
Post by: Chesapeake on January 02, 2023, 09:06:20 AM
That scare got the ball rolling and points creep has been larger than was previously normal.
Some said it was Covid and folks with lots of free time. Some say the retracting economy will provide correction.
There are well north of 100000 points holders in Wyoming and only 1/4 or less of those actually apply for tags each year. The rest just buy points.
The points pool for Wyoming tags has the capacity to drive massive points creep for the foreseeable future. There is no end in sight.
Post by: dvolmer on January 02, 2023, 06:06:15 PM
One thing to consider, If you don't mind spending $2000 for a LE Wyoming elk tag and if you don't draw in 2023, you might be able to move up in LE unit quality in 2024 and beyond in the Special draw. That unit you have been wanting to draw that always seems to have taken one to two more points than you have, might come in reach in the special draw. With the changes, you will see a big increase in point creep in the normal as people in the future decide $2000 is too much to spend for a tag. That is what the outfitters are betting on and that is one of the biggest reasons for the changes in the system along with the need to generate the money that will be lost in the Sheep/Moose/goat 90-10 changes. Wyoming knows that a very large number of folks will bow out of the Sheep/moose/goat system once they realize the math/science that will tell them they wont get a tag until 25 years after they have died! (it blows my mind how many will continue to buy points when they have 0 chance of drawing in their lifetime and now with the 90-10 changes there will be no random tags available. Some people I guess just cant jump off of a sinking ship). With the reduction of guys blowing $150 a year on the Sheep/moose/goat points they are scrambling to find a way to not be impacted financially. As far as Wyoming going to a 90-10 for deer, elk, and antelope, I just don't see it happening anytime soon if ever at all. The task force struck it down without even hardly considering it. It would kill their pocketbooks. What you might and probably will see is either an increase in the percentages of Special over normal, Like a 50/50 instead of a 60/40 currently, and you will soon see a increase in the normal also. Last but not least, you could see in the distant future a system with just one tag and one rate instead of the normal/special they are currently using.
Post by: Stein on January 02, 2023, 09:16:51 PM
Hopefully you guys get your tags, might be a lot of guys off the bench that didn't work into the numbers in prior years. We could see some truly epic temporary point creep.Do you think it's temporary? Never seen point creep down...
Sure, could happen for sure. A ton of guys only buy points, if 1,000 of them jump in and burn them, it theoretically could go back to normal last year. By epic, I mean tags going from 10 points to 16 points in a year and then back down to 10-11 the following year.
Basically, there are a bunch of guys sitting on the sidelines and this could spur a bunch of them into the game for one year.
Post by: dvolmer on January 02, 2023, 09:42:46 PM
Post by: Stein on January 02, 2023, 10:16:55 PM
Same reason you see tags in WA get dropped to one but rarely zero. Lots of points chasing that one tag.
Post by: Bigshooter on January 03, 2023, 09:49:42 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 04, 2023, 07:16:39 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on January 04, 2023, 09:19:40 AM
There, point creep eliminated
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 04, 2023, 11:54:48 AM
I think point creep will be minimal this year. Next year you will see a giant increase in point creep in the regular draw and it won't ever go away.
It will be interesting to see. 71,000 people just heard Randy Newberg tell them to burn their WY points this year if they can. If I had the ability, I'd be burning mine (I can't). :dunno:
Post by: trophyhunt on January 04, 2023, 12:06:04 PM
It's weird they bumped the non resident application period to February this year... :chuckle:You had me for a second!! lol. Gonna talk with the guys at the Wyoming fish and game booth in Reno next week, see what they think and prob just buy points for general license, highly doubt 2.5-3.5 points will do it.
There, point creep eliminated
Post by: Whitpirate on January 04, 2023, 10:41:25 PM
Lots of good units in the 8-12 range gents. Get to hunting! For some weird reason my daughter really wants to shoot a bull so I'm likely gonna sacrifice all my points to float us on some general tags. Still trying to figure out where I failed as a father :chuckle:
She has good taste in ungulates and a taller bald man's indirect influence.... the elk whisperer would be proud.
Post by: Beastmonger1987 on January 09, 2023, 12:08:09 PM
Post by: dvolmer on January 09, 2023, 02:23:43 PM
This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck! By the way, you will need 7 plus points to get an antelope tag with a 27% chance of getting a dow antelope tag. about 49% chance of drawing your cow elk tag in 23.
Post by: trophyhunt on January 09, 2023, 02:29:34 PM
do they have outfitter tags? If so, I would think his odds would be pretty good?? I would be surprised if 3 points gets him a general tag?This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck!
Post by: dvolmer on January 09, 2023, 02:30:30 PM
No such thing as Outfitter tags in Wyoming. It's normal or special for everyone unless you own a certain amount of deeded land and landowner tags in Wyoming are non-transferable to anyone except immediate family. Sometimes they can be transferred to a veteran or something through the dept of fish and game.do they have outfitter tags? If so, I would think his odds would be pretty good?? I would be surprised if 3 points gets him a general tag?This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck!
Post by: Jpmiller on January 10, 2023, 11:46:58 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 10, 2023, 11:59:37 AM
I've never looked into this but can you accrue points for the cow tags, and if so independent of the regular elk points? We go to Wyoming every other fall to see family I don't know why I haven't been doing cow applications they give them out about twenty minutes from their place.Elk points are just elk points, your best bet is to put a cow tag as your second choice, then you won't loose your points.
Post by: Stein on January 10, 2023, 02:57:18 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 10, 2023, 03:28:51 PM
Full price elk tags use points, reduced price elk tags do not.
Post by: Jpmiller on January 10, 2023, 05:37:32 PM
Post by: Stein on January 10, 2023, 07:10:31 PM
There are cow tags that are reduced price (Type 6,7) and then there are cow tags that are full price. (Type 4)
Full price elk tags use points, reduced price elk tags do not.
I was almost right!
Looks like there is a full price type 5 cow as well.
Post by: dvolmer on January 10, 2023, 09:43:00 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 14, 2023, 08:57:00 AM
Post by: dvolmer on January 14, 2023, 01:57:41 PM
In for a random. :peep: Better odds than WA. :dunno:We are to the point here in Washington that a general elk tag in Wyoming offers better opportunity, quality, and success than pretty much all of the special permit bull tags here in Washington and probably 80% better than the Quality special permits. I would take a general Wyoming elk tag over a Washington state Blue Mt Watershed tag now. 10 years ago that wasn't the case but it is now. There still are a handful of Washington quality tags that are better but they are dwindling quickly and the quota for these tags are getting less and less every year with some of them just offering one or two tags. This is so us idiots here in Washington will keep applying and spending our money they want so badly. You can apply for 20 year plus in Washington for a bull tag or a quality bull tag and when drawn find out the quality has went into the toilet, or you can apply for Wyoming general elk and draw every 4 to 5 years and have a better experience. Not only that, you get to hunt big bulls 4 times in 20 years instead of possibly once in a lifetime or maybe never here in Washington.
Post by: Stein on January 14, 2023, 02:56:51 PM
If you started today and the odds didn't ever go down, you would have a 9.2% combined chance of drawing the tag if you apply every year for 20 years.
Max points of 26 (in 2021), you have a 2.1% chance of drawing.
Post by: dilleytech on January 16, 2023, 07:05:59 AM
In for a random. :peep: Better odds than WA. :dunno:We are to the point here in Washington that a general elk tag in Wyoming offers better opportunity, quality, and success than pretty much all of the special permit bull tags here in Washington and probably 80% better than the Quality special permits. I would take a general Wyoming elk tag over a Washington state Blue Mt Watershed tag now. 10 years ago that wasn't the case but it is now. There still are a handful of Washington quality tags that are better but they are dwindling quickly and the quota for these tags are getting less and less every year with some of them just offering one or two tags. This is so us idiots here in Washington will keep applying and spending our money they want so badly. You can apply for 20 year plus in Washington for a bull tag or a quality bull tag and when drawn find out the quality has went into the toilet, or you can apply for Wyoming general elk and draw every 4 to 5 years and have a better experience. Not only that, you get to hunt big bulls 4 times in 20 years instead of possibly once in a lifetime or maybe never here in Washington.
And you can get a cow tag basically every year in wyoming if you just want to kill an elk every year.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 16, 2023, 08:08:38 AM
Post by: dilleytech on January 16, 2023, 09:06:11 AM
At least the special fee increase for 2024 was shot down. Maybe now 2023 draws won't get turned on its head.
But randy newburger said!!!
Post by: Beastmonger1987 on January 17, 2023, 12:28:54 PM
This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck! By the way, you will need 7 plus points to get an antelope tag with a 27% chance of getting a dow antelope tag. about 49% chance of drawing your cow elk tag in 23.
All odds I have seen are 100% draw for unit 23 first choice regular with 12 points? :dunno: We did have to back off unit 7 because the odds weren't as good. Antelope is going to be unit 63-2 (6%) first choice special, 2nd choice unit 23 65% odds. The cow tag is a 23-6.
Post by: Stein on January 17, 2023, 12:36:53 PM
The only thing to worry about would be some sort of massive bench clearing due to the new rules. It has been predicted 6 out of the last 0 times so far.
Post by: Beastmonger1987 on January 17, 2023, 12:58:32 PM
On a normal year, I would say you're safe with 12, it was 10.5 last year and point creep is rarely more than 1. You would be good with 1 or 1.5 point creep, 2 would be under 100, but still likely good odds.
The only thing to worry about would be some sort of massive bench clearing due to the new rules. It has been predicted 6 out of the last 0 times so far.
:yeah: a lot of information out there telling people to burn baby burn
Post by: High Climber on January 17, 2023, 01:02:49 PM
This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck! By the way, you will need 7 plus points to get an antelope tag with a 27% chance of getting a dow antelope tag. about 49% chance of drawing your cow elk tag in 23.
All odds I have seen are 100% draw for unit 23 first choice regular with 12 points? :dunno: We did have to back off unit 7 because the odds weren't as good. Antelope is going to be unit 63-2 (6%) first choice special, 2nd choice unit 23 65% odds. The cow tag is a 23-6.
A couple things for a heads up, not sure if you realize them or I am reading it wrong.
1) Wyoming goes through everyone’s first choice before moving to second choices, the chance of drawing unit 23 antelope second choice is 0%
2) Neither antelope unit 63 or 23 are within the boundaries of Elk unit 23.
Post by: Beastmonger1987 on January 17, 2023, 01:15:07 PM
This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck! By the way, you will need 7 plus points to get an antelope tag with a 27% chance of getting a dow antelope tag. about 49% chance of drawing your cow elk tag in 23.
All odds I have seen are 100% draw for unit 23 first choice regular with 12 points? :dunno: We did have to back off unit 7 because the odds weren't as good. Antelope is going to be unit 63-2 (6%) first choice special, 2nd choice unit 23 65% odds. The cow tag is a 23-6.
A couple things for a heads up, not sure if you realize them or I am reading it wrong.
1) Wyoming goes through everyone’s first choice before moving to second choices, the chance of drawing unit 23 antelope second choice is 0%
2) Neither antelope unit 63 or 23 are within the boundaries of Elk unit 23.
Second choice special draw odds are 65% for unit 23 antelope with 1 point. And yes will be doing a bit of travel over the 5 days to get to unit 63 / 23 for antelope.
I appreciate ya'll making me double check my numbers!
Post by: High Climber on January 17, 2023, 01:29:51 PM
Post by: finnman on January 20, 2023, 05:37:11 PM
Excited to get over there and hunt unit 7 bulls.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 21, 2023, 12:26:43 PM
Post by: dilleytech on January 21, 2023, 01:43:06 PM
I was hoping to draw this year sitting on 13 points but very doubtful. Wanted to hunt the wilderness area near the park to catch the migration. Since I don't have relatives there and those with horses it looks like I am out. It's a shame that out of state hunting has come to a rich man's sport. By the time you figure all the licenses, point purchases, and to hire a guide ( one wanting 15k) a hunt like that takes me out of the game. The outfitters I talked to want a down payment first even not know if I will draw so the money sits in their bank account. Many of those tags get locked up by the outfitters throwing their hunters into a pool with 10 plus other guys so it's a one draw all draw scenario. Making an applicant that wants to apply by his self on the shorter end of the stick odds wise. I get it the guides have to look out for their clientele or rich hunters but it's evolved into something I didn't anticipate when I first started.For you is a guided hunt the only option? Something I never considered when hunting out of state. The hunting is good enough it never seemed necessary. Out of state elk hunts points an all seem like a 3k hunt every 10 years. Not to expensive.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on January 21, 2023, 02:00:22 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 21, 2023, 02:33:36 PM
As stated above to hunt the wilderness a non resident has to hunt with a guideI was hoping to draw this year sitting on 13 points but very doubtful. Wanted to hunt the wilderness area near the park to catch the migration. Since I don't have relatives there and those with horses it looks like I am out. It's a shame that out of state hunting has come to a rich man's sport. By the time you figure all the licenses, point purchases, and to hire a guide ( one wanting 15k) a hunt like that takes me out of the game. The outfitters I talked to want a down payment first even not know if I will draw so the money sits in their bank account. Many of those tags get locked up by the outfitters throwing their hunters into a pool with 10 plus other guys so it's a one draw all draw scenario. Making an applicant that wants to apply by his self on the shorter end of the stick odds wise. I get it the guides have to look out for their clientele or rich hunters but it's evolved into something I didn't anticipate when I first started.For you is a guided hunt the only option? Something I never considered when hunting out of state. The hunting is good enough it never seemed necessary. Out of state elk hunts points an all seem like a 3k hunt every 10 years. Not to expensive.
Post by: dvolmer on January 21, 2023, 05:27:42 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 21, 2023, 05:44:58 PM
Post by: Alan K on January 21, 2023, 05:51:13 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 21, 2023, 06:41:40 PM
What's the chance of that happening unless it's a relative and they have horses. Very slim.If I'm still up for the hike in a general area? No horses. Good enough. :tup:
Post by: Jpmiller on January 21, 2023, 07:07:07 PM
What's the chance of that happening unless it's a relative and they have horses. Very slim.
I fall into this category and understand completely how lucky I am. My aunt also works for the outfitter at the ranch next door which furthers my good fortune.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 21, 2023, 08:04:25 PM
What's the chance of that happening unless it's a relative and they have horses. Very slim.
I fall into this category and understand completely how lucky I am. My aunt also works for the outfitter at the ranch next door which furthers my good fortune.
Yea consider yourself a lucky man. I wish I knew a rancher or hunter that would be willing to take another hunter into their camp. But wishing usually gets you no where.
Post by: buglebrush on January 21, 2023, 10:44:21 PM
Post by: idaho guy on January 22, 2023, 06:23:11 AM
I was hoping to draw this year sitting on 13 points but very doubtful. Wanted to hunt the wilderness area near the park to catch the migration. Since I don't have relatives there and those with horses it looks like I am out. It's a shame that out of state hunting has come to a rich man's sport. By the time you figure all the licenses, point purchases, and to hire a guide ( one wanting 15k) a hunt like that takes me out of the game. The outfitters I talked to want a down payment first even not know if I will draw so the money sits in their bank account. Many of those tags get locked up by the outfitters throwing their hunters into a pool with 10 plus other guys so it's a one draw all draw scenario. Making an applicant that wants to apply by his self on the shorter end of the stick odds wise. I get it the guides have to look out for their clientele or rich hunters but it's evolved into something I didn't anticipate when I first started.
I was watching one of the 100s podcast on how to “fix” western draw systems by Randy newberg. It could have been any of the different hunting personalities as they are all simultaneously promoting to DEATH western draws and hunts and then telling the state how to “fix” the draw systems that these promoters of western hunting have broke themselves. I really like Randy’s stuff(rarely Watch podcasts in general)but I think on your own adventures is one of the best programs, so this is not aimed at him. The industry of tag services (hunting fool etc) social media and things like go hunt have promoted and glorified western hunting to the point of breaking it. Then they all do articles and podcasts on how the states need to fix it lol. Western states draw systems were never designed to have most hunters in all 50 states applying for a limited number of tags. Your last sentence stuck out to me “it’s evolved into something I didn’t anticipate when I first started.” The industry needs to keep us in what feels like a Ponzi scheme especially for premier tags. 20-30 years ago it worked in the beginning but at this point it’s not in reach of your average joe hunter. The industry broke the system, have to keep us invested to stay in business and then wine that the states need to fix it 😂😂😂. There is an article called the go hunt effect that’s really interesting. Shows the actual number of hunters declining at the same time western states apps are skyrocketing. They have to convince us to apply apply apply. The math doesn’t work very well anymore. I’m just hunting my home state a lot more there’s a ton of areas and hunts I have yet to explore. If I try and hunt every otc season in Idaho including predators I am busy year around. Hope everyone can get some tags! Sorry for the derailment of this thread I just related 100 percent to your last sentence. The whole system of western hunting has evolved into something no one anticipated. The only way to fix it is if the majority of hunters start approaching out of state Draws more rationally
Post by: 2MANY on January 22, 2023, 08:54:01 AM
Everyone wants to make a buck doing what they love while they are 100% screwing up the resources.
2Many with 2Much easy info.
Wait till man's greed finally suceeds in screwing up our planet.
Are we gonna sit around and say we didn't see that coming too?
If ya can't see a train coming down the tracks, I guess you might as well just stand between them.
Post by: Dark2Dark on January 22, 2023, 02:39:08 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 22, 2023, 03:46:47 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2023, 04:35:26 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 22, 2023, 04:41:14 PM
As of now I think we are in for general. Burning 9 points but my old man only has so many more years to hunt backcountry elk and you can’t take your points with you.good luck, you should easily be 100% on the general, you have a unit in mind?
Post by: vandeman17 on January 22, 2023, 04:45:12 PM
As of now I think we are in for general. Burning 9 points but my old man only has so many more years to hunt backcountry elk and you can’t take your points with you.good luck, you should easily be 100% on the general, you have a unit in mind?
We are looking at 85 or 86 and going in with camp on my back. Sept 26th season opener for rifle
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 22, 2023, 08:49:55 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2023, 08:45:56 AM
I believe 85 and 86 are general tag areas, with 30 % success rate over the past few years. Should be a good hunt.
Correct they are general. I have a buddy who has no points that likely would jump in with us but that would still put us at 6 point average so we will see. I am at the stage where I just want to hunt with friends and family so if that means "losing some point power" by applying with people who have less points that is fine with me.
Post by: dvolmer on January 23, 2023, 11:26:44 AM
Out of the draw this year, not enough points for a general tag so why send them money, get a point and wait….This used to be my thought process until I realized there were some awesome random draw odds for high quality tags in Wyoming. If you apply in the special and do your research, you can find tags that take 10-15 points that have a random draw odds in the 3%-5% range. Compare that to draw odds for hunts like that in Washington State when you have 20 points in your pocket. Random draw odds in Wyoming are much better than a pocket full of points here and the quality is hard to beat. Heck, the random draw for a General Wyoming elk tag are hanging right at around 12% odds. You only live once and you will run out of health way before you run out of money! Every year you don't hunt elk is a year you will never get back and a year that your health will just slowly decline. Just some advice from a guy that is starting to feel it in his knees and back.....
Post by: trophyhunt on January 23, 2023, 11:50:57 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 23, 2023, 11:59:14 AM
But I thought you had zero chance at drawing a general tag if you didn’t have “X” amount of points? I’m all for putting in if we have a 4-5% or greater chance.
75% of the tags go to top point holders and the other 25% go into a random pool that often has a 3-10 percent draw odds
Post by: trophyhunt on January 23, 2023, 12:26:49 PM
Well crap, I always see that " less than" sign and 0 odds on the charts. Ok, maybe we will have to throw our hats (wallets) in.But I thought you had zero chance at drawing a general tag if you didn’t have “X” amount of points? I’m all for putting in if we have a 4-5% or greater chance.
75% of the tags go to top point holders and the other 25% go into a random pool that often has a 3-10 percent draw odds
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 23, 2023, 01:07:21 PM
you're so old Jerry :chuckle:Well crap, I always see that " less than" sign and 0 odds on the charts. Ok, maybe we will have to throw our hats (wallets) in.But I thought you had zero chance at drawing a general tag if you didn’t have “X” amount of points? I’m all for putting in if we have a 4-5% or greater chance.
75% of the tags go to top point holders and the other 25% go into a random pool that often has a 3-10 percent draw odds
Scroll to elk, click the blue link for regular or special under random draw and go to town
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Hunting/Drawing-Odds/2022-Drawing-Odds
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 23, 2023, 01:08:55 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 23, 2023, 03:55:10 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 23, 2023, 04:51:37 PM
Lol, thanks for the insult.. oops, I mean help Karl!! :chuckle: :chuckle:I'm hear for you buddy :chuckle:
Post by: Mtnwalker on January 24, 2023, 08:36:36 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 24, 2023, 08:37:45 AM
Ok, I may be old, but I can still read !! :chuckle: Look at this Karl, I see zero general non res tags given out to peeps with less than 4 points. Am I seeing it wrong?
In the preference point pool that is correct but in the random its just that, random. You have the same chance as someone with 10 points as long as they didn't draw the tag using those preference points
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 24, 2023, 10:47:52 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 25, 2023, 01:13:21 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on January 25, 2023, 02:09:21 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 25, 2023, 02:22:08 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on January 25, 2023, 02:25:46 PM
Post by: Mtnwalker on January 25, 2023, 02:38:58 PM
From what I have been hearing, the 2024 changes were not implemented
I still think there will be an influx of apps that were in before they made that decision... hopefully I'm wrong
Post by: vandeman17 on January 25, 2023, 02:44:36 PM
From what I have been hearing, the 2024 changes were not implemented
I still think there will be an influx of apps that were in before they made that decision... hopefully I'm wrong
Very possible yes or people still applying while not knowing of the change.
Post by: idahohuntr on January 25, 2023, 03:01:49 PM
From what I have been hearing, the 2024 changes were not implementedI believe the original bill was pulled, but a nearly identical house bill was introduced last week and some WY gurus are still saying the price increases are very likely. Sounds like something more procedural in removing the original bill and replacing it with the new one...either way, plan on $2k elk tags and $1.2k deer/antelope in 2024.
Post by: vandeman17 on January 25, 2023, 03:11:56 PM
From what I have been hearing, the 2024 changes were not implementedI believe the original bill was pulled, but a nearly identical house bill was introduced last week and some WY gurus are still saying the price increases are very likely. Sounds like something more procedural in removing the original bill and replacing it with the new one...either way, plan on $2k elk tags and $1.2k deer/antelope in 2024.
Back and forth and back and forth... :o
Post by: dvolmer on January 25, 2023, 05:47:39 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 25, 2023, 06:12:44 PM
https://blog.eastmans.com/good-news-for-wyoming-non-resident-hunters/?mc_cid=d5f672acd0&mc_eid=9ed2ad9e32
But it has resurfaced, unfortunately.
Post by: dvolmer on January 25, 2023, 08:39:56 PM
yes but I think this article is saying the resurfaced version was shot down also. This article came out today. But that doesn’t mean we won’t see it again. I think there were issues with it being generated in the state Senate when a bill like this has to start in the State House. It was questioned to be unconstitutional in Wyoming because this revenue bill needs to start in the House. If not this year, probably see it next year.https://blog.eastmans.com/good-news-for-wyoming-non-resident-hunters/?mc_cid=d5f672acd0&mc_eid=9ed2ad9e32
But it has resurfaced, unfortunately.
Post by: Stein on January 26, 2023, 07:22:25 AM
Some states might go faster than others and at different levels, but it's only a matter of time. Tags will move out of the DIY nonresident pool.
Post by: dvolmer on January 26, 2023, 03:34:36 PM
It is going to be a trend as odds decrease due to more residents, they will want to move the nonresident tags into the resident pool and since they are the ones that vote, they will get it. Even if it's a question of revenue, they will be willing to pay more.
Some states might go faster than others and at different levels, but it's only a matter of time. Tags will move out of the DIY nonresident pool.
Stein, You have some good points here. I do think Wyoming is unique in one way compared to other western states. Idaho, Montana, Utah, Colorado, etc etc are having a huge influx of new residents that are causing the game dept's to take a look at NR opportunities and tag allocations. In these states I think you will see prices go higher and the number of NR tag opportunities decrease. Wyoming is unique in that they are not growing in population and staying pretty stagnant at less than 600K total population in a very big state. For this reason, it is my opinion that 90/10 for deer, antelope, and elk will not come to pass anytime soon if ever at all. It was just about immediately dismissed by the Task Force. I can see why they did it for moose and sheep with such small tag quotas but for D/A/E the residents of the state still have unbelievable opportunities to hunt these three species year after year the way the allocations are currently. It would be like having the state of Washington with no cities in it except Yakima, Tri-Cities, and Walla Walla. No Spokane, no King County, nothing at all! On top of that imagine Washington with triple the amount of elk, deer, and additional half million antelope at least and no off-reservation native harvest. Hard to really comprehend actually. They have so much opportunity as residents in Wyoming that changing the current quotas to 90/10 really wouldn't be that noticeable. But the loss of revenue due to 90/10 would be big to the States budget. Just the cost to run a state like that with so few residents would be massive and shared with just the 600K residents would be burdensome. I do believe the tag costs will increase considerably over the next few years and I mean all of the tags and not just the special. They are just too valuable in the 49 state market. They could double all of their tag costs and they would still be overrun with applicants. Business wise this is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Some guys think this will be the "End of Hunting" and say "Its became a rich mans sport only" but this really isn't true. It will be a rich mans sport to hunt out of state as a non-resident but everyone has the opportunity to hunt in the state THEY CHOOSE to live in for a reasonable price that doesn't break the bank. These states can charge what they want for the animals they own that they decide to sell to residents of other states. The residents of the state own the animals of the state no matter where in that state they reside. They own the animals on private property, state lands, and federal lands within their state boundaries. So the arguments that I see by some that the animals are on federal lands and so forth are not valid. As the prices of the tags go through the roof and the quotas reduced along with all of the massive influx of new applicants arise, you can blame it all on the things you have come to love and use so much: Social media, the internet, OnX, HuntingPhool, GoHunt, Randy Newberg, Youtube, hunting TV, etc etc..... If you were the kind of guy that hunted hard 10 or more years ago and did all of your own sweat and blood research, scouting, landowner PR, and so forth, you have seen what you loved go to Hell and a Hand-basket. They have glorified the resource along with spoon-feeding the dummies. These two things have just about ruined western hunting.
Post by: trophyhunt on January 26, 2023, 04:20:46 PM
well crap, I’m so depressed now! :chuckle: Actually , it is depressing, no more group hunts out of state, the younger generation will miss out. Only the rich will be able to afford it.It is going to be a trend as odds decrease due to more residents, they will want to move the nonresident tags into the resident pool and since they are the ones that vote, they will get it. Even if it's a question of revenue, they will be willing to pay more.
Some states might go faster than others and at different levels, but it's only a matter of time. Tags will move out of the DIY nonresident pool.
Stein, You have some good points here. I do think Wyoming is unique in one way compared to other western states. Idaho, Montana, Utah, Colorado, etc etc are having a huge influx of new residents that are causing the game dept's to take a look at NR opportunities and tag allocations. In these states I think you will see prices go higher and the number of NR tag opportunities decrease. Wyoming is unique in that they are not growing in population and staying pretty stagnant at less than 600K total population in a very big state. For this reason, it is my opinion that 90/10 for deer, antelope, and elk will not come to pass anytime soon if ever at all. It was just about immediately dismissed by the Task Force. I can see why they did it for moose and sheep with such small tag quotas but for D/A/E the residents of the state still have unbelievable opportunities to hunt these three species year after year the way the allocations are currently. It would be like having the state of Washington with no cities in it except Yakima, Tri-Cities, and Walla Walla. No Spokane, no King County, nothing at all! On top of that imagine Washington with triple the amount of elk, deer, and additional half million antelope at least and no off-reservation native harvest. Hard to really comprehend actually. They have so much opportunity as residents in Wyoming that changing the current quotas to 90/10 really wouldn't be that noticeable. But the loss of revenue due to 90/10 would be big to the States budget. Just the cost to run a state like that with so few residents would be massive and shared with just the 600K residents would be burdensome. I do believe the tag costs will increase considerably over the next few years and I mean all of the tags and not just the special. They are just too valuable in the 49 state market. They could double all of their tag costs and they would still be overrun with applicants. Business wise this is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Some guys think this will be the "End of Hunting" and say "Its became a rich mans sport only" but this really isn't true. It will be a rich mans sport to hunt out of state as a non-resident but everyone has the opportunity to hunt in the state THEY CHOOSE to live in for a reasonable price that doesn't break the bank. These states can charge what they want for the animals they own that they decide to sell to residents of other states. The residents of the state own the animals of the state no matter where in that state they reside. They own the animals on private property, state lands, and federal lands within their state boundaries. So the arguments that I see by some that the animals are on federal lands and so forth are not valid. As the prices of the tags go through the roof and the quotas reduced along with all of the massive influx of new applicants arise, you can blame it all on the things you have come to love and use so much: Social media, the internet, OnX, HuntingPhool, GoHunt, Randy Newberg, Youtube, hunting TV, etc etc..... If you were the kind of guy that hunted hard 10 or more years ago and did all of your own sweat and blood research, scouting, landowner PR, and so forth, you have seen what you loved go to Hell and a Hand-basket. They have glorified the resource along with spoon-feeding the dummies. These two things have just about ruined western hunting.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 31, 2023, 08:01:10 AM
Post by: Onewhohikes on January 31, 2023, 06:19:50 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on January 31, 2023, 06:44:41 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on January 31, 2023, 07:44:06 PM
Deadline is tomorrow guys!!!deadline is past. :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 01, 2023, 01:11:54 PM
I waited until Monday night and confirmed they got my money Tuesday morning. I threw my 7 points at the General hunt and will get the archery license upon a successful draw. We'll see if the creep turns into full throttle. Last year 4 points was 100% for General. Now the 4+ month wait.Deadline is tomorrow guys!!!deadline is past. :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: Jpmiller on February 01, 2023, 01:47:06 PM
I waited until Monday night and confirmed they got my money Tuesday morning. I threw my 7 points at the General hunt and will get the archery license upon a successful draw. We'll see if the creep turns into full throttle. Last year 4 points was 100% for General. Now the 4+ month wait.Deadline is tomorrow guys!!!deadline is past. :dunno: :chuckle:
I talked to an outfitter in the general area who is pretty plugged in both with the state and other local guides and he said the point jump is being overblown, from what he's hearing he said it'll probably stay at 4 points for the general and worst case jump to 5. Don't deapair
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 01, 2023, 01:52:41 PM
I waited until Monday night and confirmed they got my money Tuesday morning. I threw my 7 points at the General hunt and will get the archery license upon a successful draw. We'll see if the creep turns into full throttle. Last year 4 points was 100% for General. Now the 4+ month wait.Deadline is tomorrow guys!!!deadline is past. :dunno: :chuckle:
I was on the road Monday going to a job when I got a message from my son (overseas) ready to join the party app. Had to phone home to get a screenshot of receipt with party info. Called WGF in the meantime. A lot of time spent on side of the road messaging and coordinating. Checked Tuesday morning to confirm it all went thru. Missed an evening dinner date due to lost time for a Hail Mary shot at a WY hunt. I've already authorized the archery upgrade to make 2 month season an option.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 01, 2023, 05:01:15 PM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on February 01, 2023, 06:17:30 PM
Post by: dvolmer on February 01, 2023, 07:25:42 PM
In with 3 points in the special for general. I have 5 but brother has 1. I want him to come so rolling the dice. Next year I might just cash in on a general if we don’t draw this year.If you don’t have enough points in the draw, you have over a 10% chance of drawing in the random.
Post by: vandeman17 on February 02, 2023, 08:14:05 AM
Post by: Onewhohikes on February 02, 2023, 08:23:20 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on February 02, 2023, 08:27:19 AM
Well my odds just went up :chuckle:
Better start making plans because its pretty much a done deal now that we are out
Post by: jjhunter on February 02, 2023, 08:55:54 AM
Post by: dvolmer on February 02, 2023, 09:06:12 AM
Post by: High Climber on February 02, 2023, 09:16:12 AM
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on February 02, 2023, 10:43:33 AM
Post by: ELKBURGER on February 02, 2023, 10:46:17 AM
I’m in with 10 pts. I hate elk hunting.:chuckle:Just call it Mule deer scouting :chuckle:
Post by: CaNINE on February 02, 2023, 07:05:03 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on February 22, 2023, 05:31:53 PM
I’m in with 10 pts. I hate elk hunting.
I'm in with max points and I hate elk hunting more than you do. :chuckle:
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on February 25, 2023, 09:58:09 AM
Points don’t matter on the second choice, are you looking at 23-2 which is a private land only tag?This Florida import to heading to Wyoming this fall! First real Western hunting experience, I've been bumbling around Olympic National Forest getting humbled by blacktails this past season. :bash: Everything is pretty different from sitting in a box blind over a food plot! Hitching a ride with my stepfather's bull hunt in Unit 23. We are going guided. He's burning his 12 points and I'm going to try and take a cow elk and pronghorn while he's looking for a big bull. Hoping to bring 200+ lbs of meat home to the freezer! I'm stuck at 3 points right now, will be looking to burn on the general elk tag in the coming years. Good luck to those in the draw!12 points wont guarantee your father a bull tag in 23 this year. I think he is in the running with those points but no guarantee at all. Last year with his 11 points he would have been successful. This year a lot of things can and will change. Good luck! By the way, you will need 7 plus points to get an antelope tag with a 27% chance of getting a dow antelope tag. about 49% chance of drawing your cow elk tag in 23.
All odds I have seen are 100% draw for unit 23 first choice regular with 12 points? :dunno: We did have to back off unit 7 because the odds weren't as good. Antelope is going to be unit 63-2 (6%) first choice special, 2nd choice unit 23 65% odds. The cow tag is a 23-6.
A couple things for a heads up, not sure if you realize them or I am reading it wrong.
1) Wyoming goes through everyone’s first choice before moving to second choices, the chance of drawing unit 23 antelope second choice is 0%
2) Neither antelope unit 63 or 23 are within the boundaries of Elk unit 23.
Second choice special draw odds are 65% for unit 23 antelope with 1 point. And yes will be doing a bit of travel over the 5 days to get to unit 63 / 23 for antelope.
I appreciate ya'll making me double check my numbers!
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Post by: dvolmer on March 03, 2023, 01:41:09 PM
Post by: High Climber on March 03, 2023, 04:52:05 PM
Looks like the Wyoming legislature is going to pass the increase on A/D/E special NR licenses. Elk will be close to $2000 and deer and antelope will be $1200 each. It just passed its third reading in the Wyoming legislature. Won’t affect this years prices but it will next year. It wii have an impact on drawing odds this year I do believe. Doesn’t affect the 60% quota in the regular. Just the 40% of the quota in special.That sucks, I agree the deer/ antelope draw will be effected this year and just the rumor probably skewed the elk draw a bit. Anyone’s guess as to how the numbers will swing though. My guess is the reg draw will have better odds than the special in more units than usual this year :dunno:
Post by: Torrent50 on March 03, 2023, 08:48:16 PM
Looks like the Wyoming legislature is going to pass the increase on A/D/E special NR licenses. Elk will be close to $2000 and deer and antelope will be $1200 each. It just passed its third reading in the Wyoming legislature. Won’t affect this years prices but it will next year. It wii have an impact on drawing odds this year I do believe. Doesn’t affect the 60% quota in the regular. Just the 40% of the quota in special.
What are A/D/E special licenses?
Post by: Alan K on March 03, 2023, 08:50:50 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 03, 2023, 08:54:06 PM
Post by: Torrent50 on March 03, 2023, 09:43:24 PM
Post by: dvolmer on March 03, 2023, 09:49:55 PM
Post by: CaNINE on May 16, 2023, 04:27:15 AM
Post by: Duckslayer89 on May 16, 2023, 05:09:57 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 16, 2023, 05:22:31 AM
Post by: mp.hunter on May 16, 2023, 06:23:42 AM
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Post by: trophyhunt on May 16, 2023, 06:26:19 AM
Brother and I drew Gen elk with 0 points, second year I drew a random elk tag in WYwow, I was kinda hoping I didn't draw gen elk with 2.5. Guess I better check now.
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Post by: andrew_in_idaho on May 16, 2023, 06:30:01 AM
If you didn’t want to draw, why apply?Brother and I drew Gen elk with 0 points, second year I drew a random elk tag in WYwow, I was kinda hoping I didn't draw gen elk with 2.5. Guess I better check now.
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you don’t even get a point for applying anymore so might as well wait and buy later rather than loaning them your money for 4 monthsSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dreamingbig on May 16, 2023, 06:36:47 AM
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Post by: trophyhunt on May 16, 2023, 06:38:38 AM
I was just kinda hoping, if we drew I'd make the best of it. Lots of vacation time being used after we put in, and IF I draw any WA tags, It would have been tight. Didn't draw so I'm ok with that.If you didn’t want to draw, why apply?Brother and I drew Gen elk with 0 points, second year I drew a random elk tag in WYwow, I was kinda hoping I didn't draw gen elk with 2.5. Guess I better check now.
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Post by: Craig on May 16, 2023, 06:43:51 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on May 16, 2023, 06:54:33 AM
Post by: HAGEMANIAC on May 16, 2023, 06:58:06 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 16, 2023, 06:59:30 AM
Post by: mp.hunter on May 16, 2023, 07:00:43 AM
Mp.hunter said the number to draw a gen tag this year is 5, getting tougher.They don’t have the numbers up yet but guys on another forum are indicating 5 was a yes and 4 not guaranteed
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Post by: HAGEMANIAC on May 16, 2023, 07:01:49 AM
Mp.hunter said the number to draw a gen tag this year is 5, getting tougher.
Last year it was 100% with 4, so I was hoping with 4 I at least had a 50% chance. That's ok, next year it will be 6 when I have 5 :chuckle:
Post by: Caseknife on May 16, 2023, 07:06:15 AM
Post by: Buckjunkie on May 16, 2023, 07:14:32 AM
Post by: Meow on May 16, 2023, 07:17:40 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on May 16, 2023, 07:25:49 AM
Post by: Buckjunkie on May 16, 2023, 07:28:51 AM
I'm stunned. Random group draw with my son. Any elk 25-1 quota of 2. Successful!! Might upgrade to archery and take the crossbow.
Congratulations! Glad to see someone pulling a tag.
Post by: Brushbuster on May 16, 2023, 07:31:30 AM
Post by: jjhunter on May 16, 2023, 07:37:38 AM
Post by: mp.hunter on May 16, 2023, 07:40:22 AM
Elk tag drawn. 40-1.Sweet, I had that tag last year!
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Post by: mp.hunter on May 16, 2023, 08:00:58 AM
@jjhunter your inbox is fullElk tag drawn. 40-1.Sweet, I had that tag last year!
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Post by: jjhunter on May 16, 2023, 08:04:17 AM
Post by: Meow on May 16, 2023, 08:14:54 AM
Post by: mp.hunter on May 16, 2023, 08:37:57 AM
For the gen tag
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Post by: finnman on May 16, 2023, 08:44:28 AM
Should be a great hunt.
Have fun all of you tag holders!!
Post by: Jpmiller on May 16, 2023, 08:52:07 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 16, 2023, 08:59:25 AM
Can I still buy a point this summer since I drew a tag?
No
Post by: Jpmiller on May 16, 2023, 09:16:32 AM
Can I still buy a point this summer since I drew a tag?
No
Well of all the dirty rotten tricks
I'll just have to cry in the Wyoming elk woods this fall to console myself :chuckle:
Post by: jamesfromseattle on May 16, 2023, 10:21:20 AM
I'll probably check out a couple other Bighorn units while I'm down there. If anyone wants to share intel, hit me up.
Post by: WildcatRanger on May 16, 2023, 10:57:45 AM
Post by: Dark2Dark on May 16, 2023, 10:58:51 AM
Post by: go4steelhd on May 16, 2023, 11:06:14 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on May 16, 2023, 11:14:51 AM
I'm stunned. Random group draw with my son. Any elk 25-1 quota of 2. Successful!! Might upgrade to archery and take the crossbow.
Congratulations! Glad to see someone pulling a tag.
We were rolling the dice with 1 point.
Post by: dvolmer on May 16, 2023, 11:21:40 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 16, 2023, 11:26:25 AM
Three years and three strikes!!!! I guess I am out. Or maybe God just doesn't want me to go yet!!! :rolleyes: Two years ago I put in with 10 points and missed it by half a point in the special and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. Last year I was in with my buddy with 11 points each in the special and missed by half a point and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. This year I was in the cheaper normal with my buddy at 12 points each and barely missed it and would have been 100% in the special!!!! Crazy for sure! Well there is always next year. It Will be interesting to see what happens next year with the new special law. Normal will stay the same around $750 but the special will increase from approximately $1200 now to approximately $2000. That might be enough to throw another screw-ball into your odd estimates.pretty safe bet that starting next year the special category odds are gonna get far better for those willing to pony up and its gonna put a lot more guys in the regular draw.
Post by: High Climber on May 16, 2023, 12:44:47 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 16, 2023, 02:05:37 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on May 16, 2023, 02:08:03 PM
I think it might help on the general tags and some real low tier hunts...for a year or two. But I kind of wonder on the 10-12+ point hunts if it won't be worse...as the whole crowd thinks odds will be better with higher prices. :dunno:Three years and three strikes!!!! I guess I am out. Or maybe God just doesn't want me to go yet!!! :rolleyes: Two years ago I put in with 10 points and missed it by half a point in the special and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. Last year I was in with my buddy with 11 points each in the special and missed by half a point and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. This year I was in the cheaper normal with my buddy at 12 points each and barely missed it and would have been 100% in the special!!!! Crazy for sure! Well there is always next year. It Will be interesting to see what happens next year with the new special law. Normal will stay the same around $750 but the special will increase from approximately $1200 now to approximately $2000. That might be enough to throw another screw-ball into your odd estimates.pretty safe bet that starting next year the special category odds are gonna get far better for those willing to pony up and its gonna put a lot more guys in the regular draw.
Post by: Mtnwalker on May 16, 2023, 02:54:32 PM
I think it might help on the general tags and some real low tier hunts...for a year or two. But I kind of wonder on the 10-12+ point hunts if it won't be worse...as the whole crowd thinks odds will be better with higher prices. :dunno:Three years and three strikes!!!! I guess I am out. Or maybe God just doesn't want me to go yet!!! :rolleyes: Two years ago I put in with 10 points and missed it by half a point in the special and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. Last year I was in with my buddy with 11 points each in the special and missed by half a point and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. This year I was in the cheaper normal with my buddy at 12 points each and barely missed it and would have been 100% in the special!!!! Crazy for sure! Well there is always next year. It Will be interesting to see what happens next year with the new special law. Normal will stay the same around $750 but the special will increase from approximately $1200 now to approximately $2000. That might be enough to throw another screw-ball into your odd estimates.pretty safe bet that starting next year the special category odds are gonna get far better for those willing to pony up and its gonna put a lot more guys in the regular draw.
Its easy to over think it, I went regular this year because I thought a bunch of people might throw down on the special draw with the pending price increases. Well, regular jumped 3 points and if I would have went special I would have drawn. Dang it.
Post by: nwmein199 on May 16, 2023, 03:51:39 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 16, 2023, 03:58:13 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on May 16, 2023, 04:07:39 PM
Post by: Stein on May 16, 2023, 04:31:34 PM
I will have 10 points for elk, deer and antelope next year so I am in a bit of no man's land. Ideally, I would like to start burning one species per year as I am not getting any younger
That's kind of where I'm at, my son will be in High School next year, so once we figure out what he can miss I plan on burning elk, deer and antelope in three successive years on the best tag we have a 90%+ chance at.
He'll also be growing out of the youth MT tag, so the timing will be good.
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 16, 2023, 05:03:15 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on May 16, 2023, 05:31:12 PM
Post by: dvolmer on May 16, 2023, 08:59:33 PM
I agree. I wonder if I pony-up on the new special next year, I might be able to sneak in and get a unit that has been just out of reach in the past. it will mess up odds and jump the point creep in the normal for sure. All I can tell myself this year is maybe it was better not to draw with the terrible winter they had but I think this is just my way of being a big baby!! I would really like to burn my points, hunt, and move on because its not like you can wait and get a better unit with the more points you buy. Every year it is the same as last with one more point added to your total and the total needed to draw and in some instances you are literally going backwards when point creep exceeds one point.Three years and three strikes!!!! I guess I am out. Or maybe God just doesn't want me to go yet!!! :rolleyes: Two years ago I put in with 10 points and missed it by half a point in the special and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. Last year I was in with my buddy with 11 points each in the special and missed by half a point and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. This year I was in the cheaper normal with my buddy at 12 points each and barely missed it and would have been 100% in the special!!!! Crazy for sure! Well there is always next year. It Will be interesting to see what happens next year with the new special law. Normal will stay the same around $750 but the special will increase from approximately $1200 now to approximately $2000. That might be enough to throw another screw-ball into your odd estimates.pretty safe bet that starting next year the special category odds are gonna get far better for those willing to pony up and its gonna put a lot more guys in the regular draw.
Post by: Stein on May 16, 2023, 09:06:05 PM
Post by: link on May 17, 2023, 07:32:01 AM
You're right. If you can't draw a unit now, more points most likely aren't going to help. Even if a hunt doesn't creep every year, If you're behind, they'll creep just enough to stay out of reach, and the gap widens. I had been hoping to do one of the park co. late season hunts. But being two points behind ( I don't know how I ever let that happen :bash:) I just realized that was out of reach, so this year, i put in and drew a different unit.I agree. I wonder if I pony-up on the new special next year, I might be able to sneak in and get a unit that has been just out of reach in the past. it will mess up odds and jump the point creep in the normal for sure. All I can tell myself this year is maybe it was better not to draw with the terrible winter they had but I think this is just my way of being a big baby!! I would really like to burn my points, hunt, and move on because its not like you can wait and get a better unit with the more points you buy. Every year it is the same as last with one more point added to your total and the total needed to draw and in some instances you are literally going backwards when point creep exceeds one point.Three years and three strikes!!!! I guess I am out. Or maybe God just doesn't want me to go yet!!! :rolleyes: Two years ago I put in with 10 points and missed it by half a point in the special and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. Last year I was in with my buddy with 11 points each in the special and missed by half a point and could have drawn 100% in the cheaper normal. This year I was in the cheaper normal with my buddy at 12 points each and barely missed it and would have been 100% in the special!!!! Crazy for sure! Well there is always next year. It Will be interesting to see what happens next year with the new special law. Normal will stay the same around $750 but the special will increase from approximately $1200 now to approximately $2000. That might be enough to throw another screw-ball into your odd estimates.pretty safe bet that starting next year the special category odds are gonna get far better for those willing to pony up and its gonna put a lot more guys in the regular draw.
Off the topic, but I hunted CO unit 55 back in 07. I think it was about a 5 or 6 point hunt then. I thought I'd be able to go back in 7/8 years maybe. But, 16 years later, I still haven't caught back up.
Post by: dvolmer on May 17, 2023, 08:38:26 AM
I think it's going to mess up the odds. There have to be draws that just aren't worth $2k and some that are worth more than that. I'm guessing it's not going to be like a normal X% price hike that changes nothing other than the state revenue.they will have no problem selling all of their special general tags at $2000 each. Might not be as many applicants but more than enough to sell all of the tags. That’s all they care about.
Post by: mburrows on May 17, 2023, 08:53:35 AM
I think it's going to mess up the odds. There have to be draws that just aren't worth $2k and some that are worth more than that. I'm guessing it's not going to be like a normal X% price hike that changes nothing other than the state revenue.they will have no problem selling all of their special general tags at $2000 each. Might not be as many applicants but more than enough to sell all of the tags. That’s all they care about.
Couldnt agree more. If that does happen watch out for other states to follow suit in an effort to try hit the highest price point they can. Aiming for that perfect price point between where supply and demand intersect. I dont like it but I cant blame anybody for trying to make as much $$ as possible so long as they maintain quality.
Post by: Stein on May 17, 2023, 09:37:48 AM
Unfortunately there will now be a $2k stake in the ground other states measure their costs against.
Post by: bobcat on May 17, 2023, 09:44:19 AM
Post by: Beastmonger1987 on May 17, 2023, 09:58:51 AM
Post by: Stein on May 17, 2023, 09:59:08 AM
Post by: Beastmonger1987 on May 17, 2023, 10:04:30 AM
I missed on Cow Elk but my stepfather drew rifle bull Oct 1-5. Happy to burn his 12 points!
Unit 23-1 guided with Backcountry Hunting Logistics
Post by: go4steelhd on May 17, 2023, 10:50:23 AM
I think it's going to mess up the odds. There have to be draws that just aren't worth $2k and some that are worth more than that. I'm guessing it's not going to be like a normal X% price hike that changes nothing other than the state revenue.they will have no problem selling all of their special general tags at $2000 each. Might not be as many applicants but more than enough to sell all of the tags. That’s all they care about.
Couldnt agree more. If that does happen watch out for other states to follow suit in an effort to try hit the highest price point they can. Aiming for that perfect price point between where supply and demand intersect. I dont like it but I cant blame anybody for trying to make as much $$ as possible so long as they maintain quality.
I was worried about this also, I did not want to pay $2K for an Elk tag next year. I feel $2K will truly testing what people are willing pay. I had 15 points, and I was lucky enough to draw a tag this year.
I have to think tags costing $2K will improve your odds, especially if one is willing to pay that for a general tag. On the harder to draw tags, I feel most will pay it, and some will drop out.
I am glad I do not have to make that decision next year 8). I was really worried I would get point sniped again this year :chuckle:
Post by: mburrows on May 17, 2023, 12:52:12 PM
Post by: dvolmer on May 17, 2023, 04:30:18 PM
Post by: Buckjunkie on May 17, 2023, 06:15:38 PM
Here are a couple of charts to gander at. Those preference points and it’s entire system are a gold mine for Wyoming.
And this is before the price hike!
Post by: Ghost Hunter on May 17, 2023, 06:52:04 PM
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on May 17, 2023, 07:01:35 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on May 17, 2023, 07:58:13 PM
Post by: cem3434 on May 17, 2023, 08:16:09 PM
No way I'm paying 2k for a stinking elk. Especially for what WY has to offer in the trophy potential department :twocents:
:yeah: I have 12 points and wasn't willing to pay the special this year to draw the unit I applied for. I missed the regular by 1 point and could afford the special, but wasn't willing to pay it to kill a raghorn. I think they are going to push a lot of younger hunters away from WY as they dont have the disposable income that some others have when they are more established. It's a money grab, but eventually hunters will bow out when it become harder to draw the regular and more expensive for the special draw. At this point, WY elk might become an OIL draw for me because of my age.
Post by: CJ1962 on May 18, 2023, 09:14:46 PM