Post by: CarbonHunter on February 18, 2023, 01:58:24 PM
From the research I did this morning it appears I can get the same run time out of 2 Rolls batteries that I would get from 4 interstates when comparing 6 volt batteries.
Post by: Skillet on February 18, 2023, 02:15:36 PM
The bottom line is there is no free lunch in battery design, and you have to decide what the most important attributes are to you and filter down from there.
If your main goal is to increase amp-hours, you need to prioritize - is weight, space or money the limiting factor? If money, just add more flooded cell 6V. If space is the limiting factor, look at lithiums. Same with weight.
In my analysis for my situation, I never found where AGM or Gel batt's were worth the premium over Flooded lead. If I was seriously space constrained and wanted to mount them on their side, or anticipated severe vibration, then maybe.
My #1 suggestion is to avoid brand loyalty until you have figured out which way you're going to go (lead-acid or lithium), then start shopping.
:twocents:
Post by: KFhunter on February 18, 2023, 02:29:37 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on February 18, 2023, 02:34:49 PM
A couple things to consider are gassing and available amp hours. AGM’s won’t gas unless severely overcharged. This helps with mounting location. And Lithium batteries can be discharged much further than flooded/AGM/gel.
IE a flooded 200 AH battery will only give you a useable 100 AH while a Lithium 200 will give you a lot more. Something like 160.
Lithium are lighter and last longer, but are sensitive to low temperatures.
Post by: CarbonHunter on February 18, 2023, 02:47:01 PM
I’ll be mounting these on the tongue of my trailer so off gassing is not an issue. I do most of my camping during hunting season so cold weather performance is critical.
Post by: KFhunter on February 18, 2023, 02:57:49 PM
Stuffed in a big agricultural flooded lead deep cycle battery with the highest reserve I could find
Side note, there wasn’t any paint under the propane rack, had to wire wheel the camper frame and spray with rust eating paint
Trailer was only a few years old
Post by: ghosthunter on February 18, 2023, 02:58:11 PM
I know folks who have lithium’s and are always pulling the because they are afraid of freezing. Not worth the cost to me.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on February 18, 2023, 03:00:42 PM
After doing my research on lithium and my experience with AGM compared to the flood lead I was strongly leaning towards flooded lead. The thing about the Rolls is that they make a 450ah 6v where most manufacturers stop at around 225. Also the thickness of the plates in the Rolls seam to be larger than most.
I’ll be mounting these on the tongue of my trailer so off gassing is not an issue. I do most of my camping during hunting season so cold weather performance is critical.
Are those numbers for the same group size battery. L-16?
Post by: Skillet on February 18, 2023, 03:35:02 PM
After doing my research on lithium and my experience with AGM compared to the flood lead I was strongly leaning towards flooded lead. The thing about the Rolls is that they make a 450ah 6v where most manufacturers stop at around 225. Also the thickness of the plates in the Rolls seam to be larger than most.
I’ll be mounting these on the tongue of my trailer so off gassing is not an issue. I do most of my camping during hunting season so cold weather performance is critical.
Are those numbers for the same group size battery. L-16?
:yeah:
I think the Rolls is the L-16 "tall-boy" at 16.75" tall (from their spec) and a wet weight of 122#. The max 225AH ratings being campared to here are usually from the GC2 group. Not really apples-to-apples comparison. Most manufacturers have an L-16 in the 450ah range.
*Here's some random links I grabbed from the internets-
Trojan https://www.trojanbattery.com/product/l16pg-ac/ (https://www.trojanbattery.com/product/l16pg-ac/)
Outback https://www.ecodirect.com/Outback-EnergyCell-525FLA-445-Amp-Hour-6-Volt-p/outback-525fla.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi8KfBhCuARIsADp-A57qse9Nt08pRBRP74QWX1JBGHCJZMulsP6KQXA1BjDPY2oYzns0J28aAoTiEALw_wcB (https://www.ecodirect.com/Outback-EnergyCell-525FLA-445-Amp-Hour-6-Volt-p/outback-525fla.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi8KfBhCuARIsADp-A57qse9Nt08pRBRP74QWX1JBGHCJZMulsP6KQXA1BjDPY2oYzns0J28aAoTiEALw_wcB)
Deka - Although a little lower at 420AH, these seem like a sweet deal for $289 each on this site:
https://www.toboaenergy.com/product/battery-flooded-8l16ltp-deka/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi8KfBhCuARIsADp-A56zedH3nlAV17QIAgcKh1yEdQthwfeiV7YTag5YgQwMHLcYX0xFjBEaArrGEALw_wcB (https://www.toboaenergy.com/product/battery-flooded-8l16ltp-deka/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi8KfBhCuARIsADp-A56zedH3nlAV17QIAgcKh1yEdQthwfeiV7YTag5YgQwMHLcYX0xFjBEaArrGEALw_wcB)
Post by: CarbonHunter on February 18, 2023, 03:47:52 PM
After doing my research on lithium and my experience with AGM compared to the flood lead I was strongly leaning towards flooded lead. The thing about the Rolls is that they make a 450ah 6v where most manufacturers stop at around 225. Also the thickness of the plates in the Rolls seam to be larger than most.
I’ll be mounting these on the tongue of my trailer so off gassing is not an issue. I do most of my camping during hunting season so cold weather performance is critical.
Are those numbers for the same group size battery. L-16?
:yeah:
I think the Rolls is the L-16 "tall-boy" at 16.75" tall (from their spec) and a wet weight of 122#. The max 225AH ratings being campared to here are usually from the GC2 group. Not really apples-to-apples comparison. Most manufacturers have an L-16 in the 450-475ah range.
Correct I am considering making the jump to the tall boy. Maybe I should have made the title more of size of amp hour but this size of this battery is far less common than the GC2 which are stocked in most stores.
The competitors batteries in this class tend to run about 10#’s less and the cycle charts that I could find showed a shorter lifespan and that’s why I’m asking about the Rolls batteries.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on February 18, 2023, 03:56:17 PM
After doing my research on lithium and my experience with AGM compared to the flood lead I was strongly leaning towards flooded lead. The thing about the Rolls is that they make a 450ah 6v where most manufacturers stop at around 225. Also the thickness of the plates in the Rolls seam to be larger than most.
I’ll be mounting these on the tongue of my trailer so off gassing is not an issue. I do most of my camping during hunting season so cold weather performance is critical.
Are those numbers for the same group size battery. L-16?
:yeah:
I think the Rolls is the L-16 "tall-boy" at 16.75" tall (from their spec) and a wet weight of 122#. The max 225AH ratings being campared to here are usually from the GC2 group. Not really apples-to-apples comparison. Most manufacturers have an L-16 in the 450-475ah range.
Correct I am considering making the jump to the tall boy. Maybe I should have made the title more of size of amp hour but this size of this battery is far less common than the GC2 which are stocked in most stores.
The competitors batteries in this class tend to run about 10#’s less and the cycle charts that I could find showed a shorter lifespan and that’s why I’m asking about the Rolls batteries.
Ok, that makes sense. The Rolls batteries have always been known for longevity. I’ve seen several large solar installs and boats and the owners had no complaints.
Post by: Skillet on February 18, 2023, 04:19:05 PM
I do think that the main factor for longevity of batt's in this class by far is proper useage though. Repeated over-discharge of any lead acid will destroy it, no matter how thick the plates are.
My bank of GC2's (8 batt's) lasted 8 years under hard use. I'd venture they lasted at least 500 cycles before a significant dropoff, and I pushed them another 150-200 cycles before I felt the need to replace. They were well taken care of with a smart charger, never too hot/too cold, only once did I let the water get below the top of the plates, and rarely discharged past 50%, though.
Make sure you're on top of your charge cycles, use a quality smart charger to help with sulfation, and those Rolls (or any other, imho) will last you a long, long time. :tup:
Post by: jay.sharkbait on February 18, 2023, 04:31:44 PM
Anything below 12.2volt (assuming series) and the batteries start to be damaged.
A good charger is critical and a dc to dc charger might be handy so you can charge off your tow rig. Todays solar panels put out decent numbers even this time of year on a cloudy day. Just options.
Post by: Zardoz on February 18, 2023, 09:09:33 PM
Thanks..
Post by: lee on February 19, 2023, 07:05:00 AM
Can anyone recommend a quality smart charger? My small charger is fading fast and I need to replace it. Will a smart charger bring a battery back that's almost dead?
Thanks..
Hi,
Depends on the definition of "... almost dead".
If the battery has been depleted to almost dead, it has been permanently damaged.
As for the smart charger question you may find the OEM charger in the RV to be adequate. My 2013 RV has a built in charger that provides: bulk, absorption, and float charging modes for the battery.
Post by: KFhunter on February 19, 2023, 07:27:27 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230219/cdb65943e6b288cf3a2b206a21f14f2d.jpg)
Post by: KFhunter on February 19, 2023, 07:29:21 AM
I hook it up occasionally and it goes to float
Dunno that’s the best way or not
Post by: CarbonHunter on February 19, 2023, 07:48:33 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on February 19, 2023, 08:43:43 AM
Knowing that if you deplete the battery to near zero that you cause the life of the battery to be reduced. Does it make sense to double the amount of batteries to make sure you only deplete your batteries halfway?
Actually anything below 50% is bad.
I think the best thing to do is figure out how many amp hours you need and size the batteries accordingly.
IE what do you want to power? Lighting, 12v diesel heater etc. do you plan to invert for TV, microwave?
AGM chart for battery capacity/state of charge.
Post by: Zardoz on February 19, 2023, 06:31:49 PM
Can anyone recommend a quality smart charger? My small charger is fading fast and I need to replace it. Will a smart charger bring a battery back that's almost dead?
Thanks..
Hi,
Depends on the definition of "... almost dead".
If the battery has been depleted to almost dead, it has been permanently damaged.
As for the smart charger question you may find the OEM charger in the RV to be adequate. My 2013 RV has a built in charger that provides: bulk, absorption, and float charging modes for the battery.
Well, my specific application is that I have a couple of spare (new) 12volt batteries sitting on the shelf that I try to keep charged once a year. I don't have power available where they are stored so I have to bring them up to the house to charge. My charger doesn't seem to get them fully charged according the the gauge and indicator light. So I'm not positive if it's the batteries or the charger. These are small equipment type batteries, but AGM's. Hence my question on chargers. :dunno: