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Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: Okanagan on April 03, 2023, 09:50:01 AM


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Title: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Okanagan on April 03, 2023, 09:50:01 AM
Tried to report online, but didn't work so forgot about it.  They charged me an extra $10 each  for hunting license and fishing license.  Tried to report cougar hunting on the last day of the season but it would not let me, just like last year.  They apparently cut off the reporting on the last day of a particular seaon or earlier? I've just come to accept that they will charge me an extra $10 no matter what I do. 

I don't think they have any interest in the actual harvest numbers or they would allow reporting after the end of the season, even if they charge the late fee.  It is purely about inaccurate deadlines and late fees, not harvest numbers.

Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: hughjorgan on April 03, 2023, 09:58:50 AM
I think it is a mechanism to encourage more people to report so they can collect more data. It probably works to an extent but I don’t think all the data is going to be all that accurate. How many people go through and mark you didn’t hunt cause it saves you time of filling out a report for an animal you didn’t punch a tag on.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: ghosthunter on April 03, 2023, 10:12:07 AM
I think it is a mechanism to encourage more people to report so they can collect more data. It probably works to an extent but I don’t think all the data is going to be all that accurate. How many people go through and mark you didn’t hunt cause it saves you time of filling out a report for an animal you didn’t punch a tag on.

Even more incentive is why take the time ,with the current commission ,numbers don’t matter.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: follow maggie on April 03, 2023, 10:51:02 AM
It is a scam. Once I got fined for not reporting, when I did definitely fill out my report. Same thing the next year, except that year I didn’t buy any tags & went to Idaho. Never bought a Washington license again after that.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Jake Dogfish on April 03, 2023, 11:16:46 AM
The majority of the WDFW commissioners would prefer to have more taxpayer dollars and less fishing and hunting dollars. 
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: bearpaw on April 03, 2023, 11:24:08 AM
The majority of the WDFW commissioners would prefer to have more taxpayer dollars and less fishing and hunting dollars.

You are absolutely correct, but there is only one way to change this trend, only one way!
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: blackpowderhunter on April 03, 2023, 11:45:57 AM
i dont think you can call it a scam, because you know going into buying your license that this is the case.
i think you can call it BS.
I think it would make more sense as an incentive if they gave you a 10$ discount the following year license purchase.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: M_ray on April 03, 2023, 01:39:22 PM
i dont think you can call it a scam, because you know going into buying your license that this is the case.
i think you can call it BS.
I think it would make more sense as an incentive if they gave you a 10$ discount the following year license purchase.


It’s a scam when they don’t want the info they just want your money. One year I was reporting and the WDFW web site crashed, their fault but my fault for not going back in and it slipped my mind. I missed the cut off by a couple days and called to at least offer my report cause of coarse they need the info right? Nope they told me it’s not needed and you’ll have to pay the money if you want a tag next year. I told the associate on the phone so what good is the info then if you don’t need it other than you just want us to forget so you can charge us? She didn’t have an answer and told me that’s what the bio’s told them to say.

 It reminds me of the 5$ they add to your tabs and hope you forget to subtract it, nothing but extortion and a money grab.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: 509 on April 03, 2023, 01:49:23 PM
Hmm, I told them to send me a paper copy, that I do not use the internet for government business.

They never called me back. 

I don't mind filling out the paper copy, but I am not going to sit around registering and trying to remember my passwords for crap like this. 

Everybody these days is shifting the work to the customer.

Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: blackpowderhunter on April 04, 2023, 12:00:14 PM
i dont think you can call it a scam, because you know going into buying your license that this is the case.
i think you can call it BS.
I think it would make more sense as an incentive if they gave you a 10$ discount the following year license purchase.


It’s a scam when they don’t want the info they just want your money. One year I was reporting and the WDFW web site crashed, their fault but my fault for not going back in and it slipped my mind. I missed the cut off by a couple days and called to at least offer my report cause of coarse they need the info right? Nope they told me it’s not needed and you’ll have to pay the money if you want a tag next year. I told the associate on the phone so what good is the info then if you don’t need it other than you just want us to forget so you can charge us? She didn’t have an answer and told me that’s what the bio’s told them to say.

 It reminds me of the 5$ they add to your tabs and hope you forget to subtract it, nothing but extortion and a money grab.
playing devils advocate here, but you admitted you missed the deadline.
When i give people a deadline at work and they're late, it then creates more work for ME to incorporate their data into the models im running.
so the added benefit of adding your data vs the re work necessary to input your data late, may not be worth it to them...
i'd argue the data is used for something...meaningful decisions being made? doubtful, but it's used for some sort of metric.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2023, 12:05:38 PM
This is what the WDFW says on this topic:

Quote
Can I submit my hunter report after the deadline?
You cannot report after the deadline. The deadline is important in order to give WDFW time to collate the data, develop preliminary reports, and provide the information to department biologists across the state to set permit levels for the coming hunting season. Permit recommendations are presented to the public and a hearing is conducted in early March each year with adoption by the Fish and Wildlife Commission scheduled for early April. These timelines are tight.

Following the reporting deadline, WDFW conducts a telephone survey of randomly selected individuals who failed to report their hunting activity by the deadline. It is the random nature of the survey that allows WDFW to accurately estimate hunter effort, harvest, and success rates compared to previous years. While reports provided by hunters before the deadline are critical, once the deadline passes, WDFW no longer accepts sporadic reports because they reduce the statistical strength of the harvest estimate.

For this reason, you still may be contacted for information in a subsequent hunter survey. If so, WDFW would appreciate you taking the time to participate in this phone survey, even though it is not a substitute for the hunter reporting requirement and will not release you from the $10 administrative fee for big game, turkey, or migratory bird reports. WDFW strongly encourages you to submit your reports on time because it is important for management of wildlife in Washington and support for hunting opportunity.

Why impose a fee for failure to report?
The hunter report administrative fee encourages hunter reporting. Hunter reports are important for improving the accuracy of harvest statistics and providing information to WDFW biologists across the state so they can prepare for setting permit levels for the coming hunting season.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/requirements/harvest-reporting
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Okanagan on April 04, 2023, 02:12:18 PM
It looks to me like it is a way to raise the price of a license $10 on a significant percentage of users without raising the official price.  Call it what you want.  The section bobcat pasted in calls it an adminstrative fee  :rolleyes: buried in a pile of bureaucratic justification.   

I wish we could know how many hunters/fishermen reported on time, how many failed to report on time, and how many of those tried to report but were unable to.  I have been able to report online some years and not able to two years, due to site failure.  Usually I mail the cards.

 
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Humptulips on April 04, 2023, 05:18:24 PM
If it wasn't a scam they would give you a few days after the season closes to report. Reports are due on the last day of cougar season.
At least the Trappers report of catch isn't due until 20 days after the close of season.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: wags on April 04, 2023, 06:15:24 PM
Do you really think they have any data actually compiled? I doubt it. Just for example, If you want to do an experiment, you should contact them and ask for last years (or two years ago) data for western Washington deer harvest statistics. Do you think you could find stats compiled from the answers you give on the report. Maybe, but I would bet a couple of dollars that you will get the royal run-around. The reports are probably laying in a heap somewhere; if they didn't get circular filed.

I remember not that many years ago they gave out 900 mountain goat permits a year in Washington. Then all of a sudden they realized, "hey, where did all the goats go". Then they dropped to just a handful of permits being issued each year.

If they actually "managed" wildlife, they would have noticed they had a problem long before they did.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: bobcat on April 04, 2023, 06:17:36 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/management/game-harvest
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: wags on April 04, 2023, 10:21:14 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/management/game-harvest
I stand corrected. That being said, it would be interesting to know how they interpret the data and then implement changes.
For at least the last 50 years, western Washington general deer season has been from the second Saturday of October, to October 31.
It just amazes me that conditions -deer population, hunting pressure, etc.- hasn't changed enough one way or another in the past 50 years that would cause the general season dates to change.   
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Chesapeake on April 04, 2023, 10:24:40 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/management/game-harvest

Don’t show them that. We don’t need more folks actually researching the units the choose to hunt or apply for.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Okanagan on April 05, 2023, 08:21:03 AM
If it wasn't a scam they would give you a few days after the season closes to report. Reports are due on the last day of cougar season.
At least the Trappers report of catch isn't due until 20 days after the close of season.

^^This^^

Closing the report window on the day the season closes is nuts.  It is user unfriendly and says volumes about the game department and their reporting gamesmanship. 

Last year I hunted the last day of cougar season, drove an hour or more after dark and came home tired, planning to report the next day.  Nope.  Report window all shut down.  If they really want accurate harvest info rather than extrapolations from random phone calls, what is the rationale for shutting off reporting with zero time after the season to report?

It's probably the usual imcompetence of some bureaucrat in an office who knows nothing of actual hunting conditions, rather than a deliberate underhanded way to add $10 to the price of a hunting or fishing license. 

Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 05, 2023, 08:40:36 AM
It looks to me like it is a way to raise the price of a license $10 on a significant percentage of users without raising the official price.  Call it what you want.  The section bobcat pasted in calls it an adminstrative fee  :rolleyes: buried in a pile of bureaucratic justification.   

I wish we could know how many hunters/fishermen reported on time, how many failed to report on time, and how many tried to report but were unable to.  I have been able to report online some years and not able to two years, due to site failure.  Usually I mail the cards.

 
Well we do live in Jaydolph's Washington so...... :kneel:
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 05, 2023, 08:53:08 AM
Washington is all about the money. And we all line up for a big "ol" glass of the Narrative.

https://www.lmtribune.com/northwest/washington-driver-s-licenses-are-the-most-expensive-in-the-u-s/article_f3737159-7e9c-501a-bfc4-f3a82a36b7bd.html

Not sure if these funds have improved anything but Jay's lifestyle.

10 bucks here and 10 bucks there. Didn't mean to push the thread sideways but it just shows that they don't have a add-on and people just line up to pay.
Title: Re: Is the late reporting fee merely a scam to raise revenue?
Post by: M_ray on April 05, 2023, 04:45:59 PM
i dont think you can call it a scam, because you know going into buying your license that this is the case.
i think you can call it BS.
I think it would make more sense as an incentive if they gave you a 10$ discount the following year license purchase.


It’s a scam when they don’t want the info they just want your money. One year I was reporting and the WDFW web site crashed, their fault but my fault for not going back in and it slipped my mind. I missed the cut off by a couple days and called to at least offer my report cause of coarse they need the info right? Nope they told me it’s not needed and you’ll have to pay the money if you want a tag next year. I told the associate on the phone so what good is the info then if you don’t need it other than you just want us to forget so you can charge us? She didn’t have an answer and told me that’s what the bio’s told them to say.

 It reminds me of the 5$ they add to your tabs and hope you forget to subtract it, nothing but extortion and a money grab.
playing devils advocate here, but you admitted you missed the deadline.
When i give people a deadline at work and they're late, it then creates more work for ME to incorporate their data into the models im running.
so the added benefit of adding your data vs the re work necessary to input your data late, may not be worth it to them...
i'd argue the data is used for something...meaningful decisions being made? doubtful, but it's used for some sort of metric.

😂 what’s hilarious with your statement is that you actually think they are working on the data and that they are finished with it when the cut off for reporting ends? News for you the other parts of my conversation with the associate was that the Bio’s hadn’t even started their reports yet which further angered me. She said they have to have a cut off at some point and the bios asked for the end of January. I asked what they did with the people that didn’t report and she said they do an average and mathematically add the  number to match lisc sales. You might have missed the part where their site crashed a couple nights before the reporting deadline? It conveniently does this every year for the last couple nights and it also goes down for maintenance. But I’m sure that’s all legitimately just coincidence right? 😆
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