Post by: blackdog on June 22, 2023, 09:38:13 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on June 22, 2023, 09:40:51 AM
Post by: Skillet on June 22, 2023, 11:09:30 AM
I know there is support for eliminating hatcheries in support of wild fish conservation. I just can't get my mind around doing that while there are still consumptive users of the resource. If we want to forgo all fishing opportunity (commercial and sport), sure. Shut 'em down. But if we want to fish, I think we need to not only keep the hatcheries we have, but increase production significantly.
Hatcheries = food fish for all. Commies, tribes, sports, orcas, sea lions, Canadians... every consumptive user group wins. And when there is plenty of fish, and people get to fish for those fish, everybody's happy.
Post by: Tbar on June 22, 2023, 12:40:58 PM
I'm a big hatchery proponent and glad to see this. They are hugely important to any and all consumptive user groups. Orcas included.I wish it were that simple! It's a balance without an out for common sense and with lots of outs to incite chaos. The opposition does not seek or need wins, just chaos. They are dominating at the game. Sea lions and seals and other consumptive users (non human) lack mechanisms to achieve long term success especially with inability to move levers like esa, mmpa, mbta and others which could lead to short term success followed by catastrophic results long term. We even lack the ability to assess, plan and adapt. We have to understand the game as it is today, it has devolved on so many levels.
I know there is support for eliminating hatcheries in support of wild fish conservation. I just can't get my mind around doing that while there are still consumptive users of the resource. If we want to forgo all fishing opportunity (commercial and sport), sure. Shut 'em down. But if we want to fish, I think we need to not only keep the hatcheries we have, but increase production significantly.
Hatcheries = food fish for all. Commies, tribes, sports, orcas, sea lions, Canadians... every consumptive user group wins. And when there is plenty of fish, and people get to fish for those fish, everybody's happy.
Post by: 2MANY on June 22, 2023, 12:47:28 PM
Today's "game" IS experiencing "catastrophic results".
Post by: GASoline71 on June 22, 2023, 12:57:58 PM
I drank a little of that "wild fish" kool-aid back in the early 2000's to protect wild steelhead, until I ran into a few cats from this group. I have always advocated for hatcheries, but these guys are a "my way or the highway" kind of group. They will stop at nothing to end all hatchery production, and all fishing if needed.
Gary
Post by: 2MANY on June 22, 2023, 01:24:08 PM
No boat, no bait, no barbs while the real problems exist downstream allowing fewer and fewer fish to return.
Post by: rainshadow1 on June 22, 2023, 02:22:28 PM
I'm a big hatchery proponent and glad to see this. They are hugely important to any and all consumptive user groups. Orcas included.
I know there is support for eliminating hatcheries in support of wild fish conservation. I just can't get my mind around doing that while there are still consumptive users of the resource. If we want to forgo all fishing opportunity (commercial and sport), sure. Shut 'em down. But if we want to fish, I think we need to not only keep the hatcheries we have, but increase production significantly.
Hatcheries = food fish for all. Commies, tribes, sports, orcas, sea lions, Canadians... every consumptive user group wins. And when there is plenty of fish, and people get to fish for those fish, everybody's happy.
Typical of anything political... no balance.
Back when I was a kid (When I was older single digits, my Dad participated in the post-Bolt Decision 'buy back' program.) the philosophy was, "Hatcheries will save us all! Who cares about the rivers." He went to UW School of Fisheries, and that was the prevailing philosophy there.
Then the Canadians got genuine long term success in the Frasier by enhancing spawning beds, while the genes of the Washington hatchery fish got narrowed and weakened, and diseases got introduced...
The 'solution' is clearly "Both."
Especially with this level of consumption. (No management of marine mammals is a huge problem, but only one of many.)
Post by: Skillet on June 22, 2023, 03:28:45 PM
I'm a big hatchery proponent and glad to see this. They are hugely important to any and all consumptive user groups. Orcas included.
I know there is support for eliminating hatcheries in support of wild fish conservation. I just can't get my mind around doing that while there are still consumptive users of the resource. If we want to forgo all fishing opportunity (commercial and sport), sure. Shut 'em down. But if we want to fish, I think we need to not only keep the hatcheries we have, but increase production significantly.
Hatcheries = food fish for all. Commies, tribes, sports, orcas, sea lions, Canadians... every consumptive user group wins. And when there is plenty of fish, and people get to fish for those fish, everybody's happy.
Typical of anything political... no balance.
Back when I was a kid (When I was older single digits, my Dad participated in the post-Bolt Decision 'buy back' program.) the philosophy was, "Hatcheries will save us all! Who cares about the rivers." He went to UW School of Fisheries, and that was the prevailing philosophy there.
Then the Canadians got genuine long term success in the Frasier by enhancing spawning beds, while the genes of the Washington hatchery fish got narrowed and weakened, and diseases got introduced...
The 'solution' is clearly "Both."
Especially with this level of consumption. (No management of marine mammals is a huge problem, but only one of many.)
You reach a bit too far in your interpretation of my statement to make your point, but your point is correct. There is certainly room for hatcheries and habitat enhancement. They are not mutually exclusive to producing more fish.