Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 01, 2023, 03:30:14 PM
The petition will be voted on Friday at 4pm but if you want to speak you will want to sign up for 2. Public input. Saturday public comment is 11. Committee meetings will be on Thursday if you are interested. The Black Bear Cr-102 will also be voted on at this meeting. A spring bear petition will be voted on and the commission will do a briefing on rules of procedure. You will want to tune in here. If you need topics to speak on here are some ideas.
1. Talk about how your hunting season went.
2. Tell the commission about the benefits of predator hunting and why its needed for the ecosystem.
3. Tell them stories of how hunting is a conservation. Not just with money but stories about volunteering or the deep care we have.
4. Call the commission out on what they are doing and how SOME of them are anti-hunting. One commissioner says we are overreacting and has conspiracy theories. They've been gaslighting us at past meetings.
5. Call out the anti-hunters on their lack of science and how they are anti-hunting. Recently, anti-hunters wrote a letter to governor inslee appealing the wolf petition that got denied. Scroll down to page 11 on the letter and you'll see what antis are telling the governor about the October meeting. Lies, they are afraid that we're getting involved. The letter also states that the WAG (Wolf Advisory group) and the department lied to the commission for their own agenda and is anti-science.
We need a presence at this meeting, this meeting will tease what to expect next year and could put predator hunting at risk. When it asks you what you want to speak on, put in 2. and 11. Here is a link for sign ups and the Center For Biological Diversity's letter to the governor. Scroll down to page 11 to see what they had to say about us. Hope you can speak!
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/wolves_on_the_west_coast/pdfs/Wolf-Rulemaking-Notice-of-Appeal.pdf
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda
Post by: Bullkllr on December 01, 2023, 03:57:20 PM
The vote on the wolf rulemaking petition took place in an atmosphere of fear and intimidation.
During both days of open public comment, on October 27th and 28th, hunters in camouflage and
animal skins crowded the meeting room. Other meeting attendees observed concealed weapons,
including a knife and firearms, and reported later that they had felt unsafe. These circumstances
were documented in an email subsequently sent by a commissioner to the Department’s director
and to the chief of its law enforcement program.18
This crowd came to oppose a conservation policy the commission has been considering, promote
increased killing of bears and cougars, and encourage commissioners to reject the wolf petition.
Members of this crowd later crowed about the impact they had intimidating commissioners and
wildlife advocates—and women, in particular.
In comments posted afterwards on several Washington online hunting forums, they proclaimed
that they had scared the “antis” so much that they “wouldn’t come out when their names were
called,” and talked about how they had disrupted the proceedings by jeering, groaning, and
laughing. They took credit for the “no” vote on the wolf rulemaking petition and that they had
scored a “massive win[] for hunters, anglers [and] ranchers."
Hmmmmm...interesting they felt this was necessary to include in the letter.
Footnote 18: 18 November 11, 2023, email from Commissioner Lorna Smith to WDFW director Kelly Susewind and WDFW lawenforcement chief Steve Bear. Exhibit N
I'd like to see exactly what Lorna Smith shared in that email.
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 01, 2023, 04:09:43 PM
"THE INTIMIDATING ATMOSPHERE AT THE COMMISSION MEETING
The vote on the wolf rulemaking petition took place in an atmosphere of fear and intimidation.
During both days of open public comment, on October 27th and 28th, hunters in camouflage and
animal skins crowded the meeting room. Other meeting attendees observed concealed weapons,
including a knife and firearms, and reported later that they had felt unsafe. These circumstances
were documented in an email subsequently sent by a commissioner to the Department’s director
and to the chief of its law enforcement program.18
This crowd came to oppose a conservation policy the commission has been considering, promote
increased killing of bears and cougars, and encourage commissioners to reject the wolf petition.
Members of this crowd later crowed about the impact they had intimidating commissioners and
wildlife advocates—and women, in particular.
In comments posted afterwards on several Washington online hunting forums, they proclaimed
that they had scared the “antis” so much that they “wouldn’t come out when their names were
called,” and talked about how they had disrupted the proceedings by jeering, groaning, and
laughing. They took credit for the “no” vote on the wolf rulemaking petition and that they had
scored a “massive win[] for hunters, anglers [and] ranchers."
Hmmmmm...interesting they felt this was necessary to include in the letter.
Footnote 18: 18 November 11, 2023, email from Commissioner Lorna Smith to WDFW director Kelly Susewind and WDFW lawenforcement chief Steve Bear. Exhibit N
I'd like to see exactly what Lorna Smith shared in that email.
They are definitely watching this forum and social media but misquoting. One of our members is doing an investigation on the weapon claim. It’s possible Lorna leaked it to damage hunters rep. The fact that the email was sent on the 11th is crazy. Why wait so long to send an email if you really felt threatened. High chance Lorna sent it to them. I doubt it was a FOIA or PDR. If so, then they are getting it faster then we are when we do it. Check out hunter farmer artisan on insta to watch the full video!
Post by: baldopepper on December 01, 2023, 04:28:30 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 01, 2023, 05:46:57 PM
Blows my mind.
Sounds like an excuse to revote it .
Just saying.
Must of been a real shocker to see what us stake holders look like.
Holy batman
Post by: ducks4days on December 01, 2023, 06:33:18 PM
"THE INTIMIDATING ATMOSPHERE AT THE COMMISSION MEETING
The vote on the wolf rulemaking petition took place in an atmosphere of fear and intimidation.
During both days of open public comment, on October 27th and 28th, hunters in camouflage and
animal skins crowded the meeting room. Other meeting attendees observed concealed weapons,
including a knife and firearms, and reported later that they had felt unsafe. These circumstances
were documented in an email subsequently sent by a commissioner to the Department’s director
and to the chief of its law enforcement program.18
This crowd came to oppose a conservation policy the commission has been considering, promote
increased killing of bears and cougars, and encourage commissioners to reject the wolf petition.
Members of this crowd later crowed about the impact they had intimidating commissioners and
wildlife advocates—and women, in particular.
In comments posted afterwards on several Washington online hunting forums, they proclaimed
that they had scared the “antis” so much that they “wouldn’t come out when their names were
called,” and talked about how they had disrupted the proceedings by jeering, groaning, and
laughing. They took credit for the “no” vote on the wolf rulemaking petition and that they had
scored a “massive win[] for hunters, anglers [and] ranchers."
Hmmmmm...interesting they felt this was necessary to include in the letter.
Footnote 18: 18 November 11, 2023, email from Commissioner Lorna Smith to WDFW director Kelly Susewind and WDFW lawenforcement chief Steve Bear. Exhibit N
I'd like to see exactly what Lorna Smith shared in that email.
They are definitely watching this forum and social media but misquoting. One of our members is doing an investigation on the weapon claim. It’s possible Lorna leaked it to damage hunters rep. The fact that the email was sent on the 11th is crazy. Why wait so long to send an email if you really felt threatened. High chance Lorna sent it to them. I doubt it was a FOIA or PDR. If so, then they are getting it faster then we are when we do it. Check out hunter farmer artisan on insta to watch the full video!
They have been running wild for too long unchallenged by sportsmen who have trusted managers and biologists too much to make any noise because we gave the benefit of the doubt.
I showed up for every day of these meetings. Not one person was acting intimidating. Every attendee, including the antis, was respectful of the commissioners and the other people in the crowd. The anti's were hard pressed for seats and every one had a seat offered to them by a person in camo or orange. Doors held open for eachother. It was awesome to see.
Normal people carry pocket knives. I didnt see anybody carrying a firearm, not even concealed and printing. If these people felt intimidated, it is because they realized for the first time that they were outnumbered, and not because anybody was acting in any way intimidating. I guess being unpopular is uncomfortable; maybe if voicing their position in front of people who dont agree with them makes them that uncomfortable they should reconsider their position?
Post by: Slamadoo on December 01, 2023, 07:27:30 PM
When I go to register to speak, it asks for agenda item numbers. However, I cannot find the agenda item numbers with the link they provide. If anyone with the knowledge could show those numbers or provide a link that works, it would sure be appreciated.
Post by: KNOPHISH on December 01, 2023, 07:35:54 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 01, 2023, 07:49:32 PM
These people are cowards. They hide behind their emails and leaks as they simultaneously try to take away our rights and destroy our way of life. When we show up to challenge their ideas, they act like petulant children.Put in 2. And 11.
When I go to register to speak, it asks for agenda item numbers. However, I cannot find the agenda item numbers with the link they provide. If anyone with the knowledge could show those numbers or provide a link that works, it would sure be appreciated.
Post by: Slamadoo on December 01, 2023, 07:50:52 PM
Friday, December 15th
1. Call to Order
2. Open Public Input (for things not already on the agenda)
3. Directors Report
4. Lands Transactions
5. Lands 20/20
6. Black Bear Timber Damage Decision
7. North of Falcon
8. Petition: Fishing Regulations at Deer Lake
9. Petition: Return Spring Bear
10. Petition: Black Bear and Cougar Rule making
Saturday, December 16th
11. Open Public Input
12. Rules of Procedure
13. Chair & Vice Chair Elections
14. Selection of Executive Assistant
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 01, 2023, 07:52:58 PM
I think I figured it out. Below are what I think are the agenda item numbers. When you register to speak, it asks you to list the agenda number you want to speak about.2. and 11 is all you can speak about. You will definitely want to watch both days. Saturday has some BIG stuff and some commissioners could get their ass handed to them.
Friday, December 15th
1. Call to Order
2. Open Public Input (for things not already on the agenda)
3. Directors Report
4. Lands Transactions
5. Lands 20/20
6. Black Bear Timber Damage Decision
7. North of Falcon
8. Petition: Fishing Regulations at Deer Lake
9. Petition: Return Spring Bear
10. Petition: Black Bear and Cougar Rule making
Saturday, December 16th
11. Open Public Input
12. Rules of Procedure
13. Chair & Vice Chair Elections
14. Selection of Executive Assistant
Post by: Brad Harshman on December 02, 2023, 04:33:24 AM
Here is the link to sign up to speak during the virtual meeting:
https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=F-LQEU4mCkCLoFfcwSfXLTdqLLUzKwVGoNxSOUk4bFdUNVEyM1BNSUNKNU5SMlpFTVo0OVMzQlBISyQlQCN0PWcu (https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=F-LQEU4mCkCLoFfcwSfXLTdqLLUzKwVGoNxSOUk4bFdUNVEyM1BNSUNKNU5SMlpFTVo0OVMzQlBISyQlQCN0PWcu)
We can't be complacent any longer.
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 02, 2023, 08:22:38 AM
Post by: Special T on December 02, 2023, 08:43:45 AM
Post by: saylean on December 02, 2023, 10:01:51 AM
There is no reason we cannot once again pack this meeting with hunter comments. But we need you to sign up today to do so. Make it happen. Even if you might not be able to make it, sign up. Fill those slots.
Post by: Slamadoo on December 02, 2023, 11:29:50 AM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 02, 2023, 12:48:07 PM
Where do you see a list of speakers and how do you know who is anti-hunting?
you get an email, it may take a few days for it to come in but you will get it. And I’ve been doing this for so long. Now I know the names.
Post by: saylean on December 02, 2023, 02:27:17 PM
If you cannot speak, send comments here.
Post by: Slamadoo on December 02, 2023, 05:05:35 PM
I signed up, hopefully I get that email soon.
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 04, 2023, 08:08:20 AM
Post by: GASoline71 on December 04, 2023, 11:55:37 AM
Probably get slammed for saying it, but showing up to these meetings in heavy camo and standing outside with long guns is just what some of the antis would like to see. Makes us look like a bunch of slobs and is easy material for them to display to any of those sitting on the fence about hunters and hunting. Show up, make your point, but don't look like an idiot when you do it.
For the record, there was no "heavy camo" and there were no "long guns" of any sort. If anyone was carrying a sidearm with a CCP, it is news to me. There was some camo worn by some, but most were wearing just an orange hat or an orange vest.
You are correct though, that the anti-hunters will use any excuse to paint us in a bad light. So it is paramount that we hold ourselves accounbtable at meetings in person and meeting over Zoom. The disparaging remarks made by anti-hunters in their appeal to the governor and the remarks made by commissioner smith in her "leaked" email can rile anyone up. Lots of lies and smoke and mirrors. It's what they are good at.
Don't take the bait. Stay calm, professional, and make good points when speaking. Touch on personal aspects about what hunting means to you and your family. You can be firm and defend yourself and your way of life without coming off as an a-hole. It took me a while to not lose my cool during speeches. I've spoke at every commission meeting since "Spring Bear". Trust me, your comments can make a difference. Just make sure it's the right difference.
Thank you to all of you that are signed up, signing up, or have spoke in the past. We want to continue to flood the comment sections with pro-hunting speakers. Also, we need to continue to show up in person at meetings. There are enough hunters across this state to maintain a good presence at meetings now matter where they are, or what time of year they are held.
Stay the course, and never give an inch!
Gary
Post by: baldopepper on December 04, 2023, 01:54:42 PM
Post by: MeepDog on December 04, 2023, 03:45:56 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contactThanks for posting this, I always forget that you can leave them messages.
If you cannot speak, send comments here.
Post by: brokentrail on December 04, 2023, 05:07:47 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 04, 2023, 05:20:54 PM
I sent my comments to commission@dfw.wa.gov which is never as good as being there or speaking but it is the best I can do this time around.Next best thing and at least your doing something!
Post by: brokentrail on December 04, 2023, 06:35:30 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 04, 2023, 06:54:18 PM
I'm actually surprised I haven't seen a HOWL for this meeting/petition. Has anyone else? I went to their website in the "Action Den" and I see no mention of it.
HOWL will have something out soon. Its run by only two guys but they'll definitely have it out soon
Post by: addicted1 on December 04, 2023, 07:09:49 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 04, 2023, 08:01:26 PM
I have signed up for public comment agenda #2. Was wondering if anyone had ideas for topics that should be addressed that aren’t on the agenda?
Speak on the predator petition and how predator hunting benefits the ecosystem and how its conservation. Talk about what hunting means to you and your family. Call out Smith and Rowland on everything. The antis have been making tons of lies about us, they pushing a ton of disinformation to ban predator hunting. We need to start calling out groups like WWF, CFBD, and others. They are trying to destroy us.
Post by: UplandSetter on December 05, 2023, 03:08:11 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 05, 2023, 04:09:08 PM
Signed up for 2 and 11. Listened to Newberg's podcast this past week, all 4 episodes. Great stuff. Was thinking in my few minutes of speaking I would literally just read off wild game recipes. Thoughts? I thought it might add a touch of humor, and appeal to the middle ground folks like Kim Thorburn said in the podcast.If you know any cougar recipes I would say them
Post by: slavenoid on December 05, 2023, 06:37:08 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 05, 2023, 06:50:59 PM
So I signed up for 2 and 11. Is there a difference between the two? Should I be talking about something specific on one vs. the other? I'm not one for public speaking so if one is more important than the other I would rather speak once.
So 2. Is the only time you can speak before the predator petition is voted on. Friday I would speak on predators, how hunting is conservation beyond the tag dollars, why predator hunting is need and even talk about some bear and cougar recipes. The antis think folks don't eat it. A general topic to always discuss what hunting means to you. Saturday I know (and Friday) people will be speaking about Lorna, Rowland, and the anti-hunting groups.
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 05, 2023, 07:10:31 PM
Another point I’ve wondered about is why hunters aren’t entitled to the same equitable treatment as any other minority group in this state when they start talking about majority public opinion swaying regulation etc... the anti’s really like to state that “only xx percent of Washingtonians hunt” like it means our heritage matters less? just a thought…
Post by: Slamadoo on December 08, 2023, 10:57:16 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on December 08, 2023, 11:11:30 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-12/combined-bear-cougar-petition.pdf (https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-12/combined-bear-cougar-petition.pdf)
Post by: hunter399 on December 08, 2023, 11:52:34 AM
FWIW, here is a link to the actual petition (I had not seen it before). There's an awful lot to digest there, but it seems like some talking points could definitely be generated from some careful analysis. Just a thought.From what I'm reading in your link.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-12/combined-bear-cougar-petition.pdf (https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-12/combined-bear-cougar-petition.pdf)
Last page or two.
Cougar season would stay the same,with a quota for the entire season. No general season. 24hour reporting instead of 72.
April cats harvested,would count toward an all season quota for the fall and all season.
Bear season ,September 1 opening,one bear per hunter.
And the piclets are just great in there.
Post by: slavenoid on December 08, 2023, 12:47:50 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 08, 2023, 01:02:12 PM
So this petition wants to change seasons and bag limits. Who was wanting to end predator hunting all together (as soon as 2024) was that the commissioners themselves? Just trying to get my facts straight.I think that came from a few commission comments.
"That hunters should be worried about upcoming changes."
But someone more active could verify that.
Cougar season would be dramatic reduction if a all season quota was put in place.
Depends on what that quota is for each GMU.
Season is done for that GMU when it meets quota.
Essentially,let's say 5 harvests in April,quota is 5.
No fall season at all for that GMU.
It's a slippery slope thing.
When it comes to a permanent end to hunting.
Slowly,not all at once.
Anyone of those conservation.orgs on the petition would love to just end predator hunting. They just can't do it all in one petition.
It will take many to achieve the goal.
Post by: ducks4days on December 08, 2023, 01:46:20 PM
So this petition wants to change seasons and bag limits. Who was wanting to end predator hunting all together (as soon as 2024) was that the commissioners themselves? Just trying to get my facts straight.I think that came from a few commission comments.
"That hunters should be worried about upcoming changes."
But someone more active could verify that.
Cougar season would be dramatic reduction if a all season quota was put in place.
Depends on what that quota is for each GMU.
Season is done for that GMU when it meets quota.
Essentially,let's say 5 harvests in April,quota is 5.
No fall season at all for that GMU.
It's a slippery slope thing.
When it comes to a permanent end to hunting.
Slowly,not all at once.
Anyone of those conservation.orgs on the petition would love to just end predator hunting. They just can't do it all in one petition.
It will take many to achieve the goal.
Roland was the one who said hunters should be worried. She tried walking back the statement on the 27th to say she meant we should be worried about climate change diminishing hunting opportunity.
The proposal is for a dramatic reduction in both opportunity and overall harvest of both bear and cougar without a justification. Seems pretty obvious where the immediate concern should be.
Post by: jstone on December 11, 2023, 01:25:25 PM
They think that us hunters are stupid
Post by: Mtnwalker on December 11, 2023, 01:32:36 PM
It’s always about climate change .!! NOT the miss management of the Department.
They think that us hunters are stupid
It's the universal excuse. To control, to hide mismanagement, to lessen opportunity, or blame their screw ups on. Very convenient
Post by: Rainier10 on December 11, 2023, 02:05:13 PM
https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,283360.0.html
I was at my cabin this weekend and have another one on camera about the same size two miles north of where this one was shot. Another slightly bigger cat about a mile east from this one and a much smaller cat about a mile west.
Oh and a pack of nine coyotes running together came in at night last night.
The predator population is doing just fine.
Post by: slavenoid on December 12, 2023, 07:22:57 AM
Post by: highside74 on December 12, 2023, 12:02:32 PM
We better get way more vocal and organized
Post by: Slamadoo on December 15, 2023, 08:08:46 AM
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 08:12:17 AM
I'm on the list to speak via phone. Do I call in or do they call me?When I tried the call in number, it said the zoom id number didnt exist. I'm on the call in list too. If anyone with experience has done the call in could chime in that would be great.
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 15, 2023, 08:12:54 AM
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 08:20:12 AM
call in but use zoom if you canI already selected phone in when I signed up about a week ago. I didnt think you could change that once picked.
I'm watching the meeting on zoom currently. Any chance they let me speak with zoom?
Post by: Slamadoo on December 15, 2023, 08:27:55 AM
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
Post by: ducks4days on December 15, 2023, 08:44:38 AM
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 08:46:35 AM
Im curious about how they decided to organize the cutoffSo far 3 for 3 have been animal rights activists
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 09:03:25 AM
Update: now the first 11 in a row have been animal rights activists.Im curious about how they decided to organize the cutoffSo far 3 for 3 have been animal rights activists
Post by: freshgrease on December 15, 2023, 09:06:20 AM
Thank you to all who stood up to the nonsense of the humane society and the other antis. You mean everything to us.
Post by: Shooter4 on December 15, 2023, 09:10:40 AM
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 10:09:57 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 10:19:17 AM
I wish they could at least take a poll of those signed up to speak how many were for and against
Post by: Slamadoo on December 15, 2023, 10:53:56 AM
It's almost like they were tipped off as to when to sign up by someone with connections to the commission.
The decision to limit the number of speakers today was not a coincidence. Their ideas of limiting public comment in the future are irresponsible and agenda driven. Anyone who thinks it will be "random" is fooling themselves.
Post by: ducks4days on December 15, 2023, 11:55:59 AM
King county 🤢
The population of the state is unevenly distributed here, it makes sense a lot of the speakers would be from KK.
What I found interesting was how many from Kitsap were represented, more than Whatcom, Skagit, Snohomish, Pierce, and Thurston combined despite being nowhere near equal in population.
Post by: Bullkllr on December 15, 2023, 12:26:40 PM
Something tells me they planned this in reaction to the pro-hunter input during the October meeting.
Despicable.
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 12:36:59 PM
Post by: GOcougsHunter on December 15, 2023, 12:49:06 PM
Post by: addicted1 on December 15, 2023, 01:15:14 PM
Post by: slavenoid on December 15, 2023, 02:14:25 PM
I was not able to listen in, did we at least get a decent representation after a while? Or, was it heavily anti?
Heavy anti they must have known exactly when to sign up to stack the deck. I didn't keep score but it felt like 25-5.
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 15, 2023, 02:24:26 PM
I was not able to listen in, did we at least get a decent representation after a while? Or, was it heavily anti?
Heavy anti they must have known exactly when to sign up to stack the deck. I didn't keep score but it felt like 25-5.
Sign up or just hand selected....no way thats how the cards randomly fell.
Totally planned
Disgusting....
Post by: ducks4days on December 15, 2023, 02:29:24 PM
I was not able to listen in, did we at least get a decent representation after a while? Or, was it heavily anti?
Heavy anti they must have known exactly when to sign up to stack the deck. I didn't keep score but it felt like 25-5.
Sign up or just hand selected....no way thats how the cards randomly fell.
Totally planned
Disgusting....
They cut out the majority of the public speakers without an opportunity to speak
Lorna Smith is going to point to the ratio of public comments in favor to justify a bad vote. Just like last time.
Post by: Platensek-po on December 15, 2023, 02:43:30 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 15, 2023, 03:00:01 PM
I was not able to listen in, did we at least get a decent representation after a while? Or, was it heavily anti?
Heavy anti they must have known exactly when to sign up to stack the deck. I didn't keep score but it felt like 25-5.
Sign up or just hand selected....no way thats how the cards randomly fell.
Totally planned
Disgusting....
They cut out the majority of the public speakers without an opportunity to speak
Lorna Smith is going to point to the ratio of public comments in favor to justify a bad vote. Just like last time.
Yup
I don't trust them, their methods or their motives.
Everything is stacked against hunters.
Wouldn't surprise me if they had a spreadsheet somewhere listing pro hunter's from last meetings, emails etc
A quick cross check would allow them to skip those voices
They aren't playing by the rules....well technically they are making their own rules...
Guess we'll see how this plays out. Not optimistic.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 03:29:51 PM
Post by: GOcougsHunter on December 15, 2023, 04:00:39 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 04:11:41 PM
So if WDFW says increase fishing to year round because there is plenty of fish noting that they are making assumptions and don’t have in depth studies but good guesstimates.
Yep, we trust your guesstimates, we approve increasing to year round.
What? You say there are plenty of cougars and bears?
You’re wrong let’s ban that until we can get better info.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 04:12:38 PM
But now WDFW is making a great case on the bear cougar petition. Hopefully this works.
Post by: Tbar on December 15, 2023, 04:36:22 PM
Spring bear shot down againNow they are going after all bear hunting.
But now WDFW is making a great case on the bear cougar petition. Hopefully this works.
Post by: Tbar on December 15, 2023, 04:51:02 PM
Post by: slavenoid on December 15, 2023, 05:43:23 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 05:46:19 PM
Post by: addicted1 on December 15, 2023, 05:56:40 PM
Post by: Tbar on December 15, 2023, 06:09:40 PM
Post by: Tbar on December 15, 2023, 06:16:04 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 06:17:09 PM
I thought lemkuhl would vote against and be the third but he caved.
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 15, 2023, 06:18:03 PM
Post by: stickbuck on December 15, 2023, 06:24:50 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 06:28:53 PM
Not only approved but amended to let’s set the new rules later instead of just rolling the rules back to 2018 rules they gave themselves the ability to make the rules whatever they want
Two week season or a quota of two cats per PMU. Literally whatever they want.
Post by: MeepDog on December 15, 2023, 06:34:14 PM
Petition to reinstate spring bear was voted down and petition to change cougar and bear season was approvedOr they could pull a spring bear and just choose not to set the rules at all. They're using some of the shadiest tactics they can to abuse what should have been a good system.
Not only approved but amended to let’s set the new rules later instead of just rolling the rules back to 2018 rules they gave themselves the ability to make the rules whatever they want
Two week season or a quota of two cats per PMU. Literally whatever they want.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 06:39:14 PM
There were two different petitions. Once they voted down spring bear I knew there was no chance when the approved rolling back cougar and bear to 2018 rules that they would keep spring bear in those rules but I assumed they would just remove the two bear east side rule and switch it to one bear like it used to be and reduce cougar quotas to what they were in 2018. Now I’m nervous they are going to cut even deeper.Petition to reinstate spring bear was voted down and petition to change cougar and bear season was approvedOr they could pull a spring bear and just choose not to set the rules at all. They're using some of the shadiest tactics they can to abuse what should have been a good system.
Not only approved but amended to let’s set the new rules later instead of just rolling the rules back to 2018 rules they gave themselves the ability to make the rules whatever they want
Two week season or a quota of two cats per PMU. Literally whatever they want.
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 15, 2023, 06:44:04 PM
Disgusting what they are doing to our rights.
It's only going to get worse. They have complete unchecked control.. :bash:
Post by: lastmk8 on December 15, 2023, 06:45:37 PM
Post by: Firstgenhunter on December 15, 2023, 07:27:01 PM
Post by: slavenoid on December 15, 2023, 09:03:55 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda
How are you seeing the vote? The only video I could find was the public comment part from this morning.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 15, 2023, 09:12:53 PM
During the meeting you can click the zoom link and watchhttps://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda
How are you seeing the vote? The only video I could find was the public comment part from this morning.
Post by: Tbar on December 15, 2023, 11:37:27 PM
There may be a lag in posting it online.https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda
How are you seeing the vote? The only video I could find was the public comment part from this morning.
I would say they are playing a shell game but it's far more brutal than that. Only a couple of them even pretend to care, the others are stating their intent and taking what's taken years to balance. Many of their cards were exposed today and the opposition is a step ahead or several steps. Sad couple of days to say the least.
Post by: hunter399 on December 16, 2023, 09:22:42 AM
Had work,busy schedule.
So we are going back to 2018 bear and cougar rules at minimum.
Could be even more cut back.
This correct?
Again sorry,I will watch meeting soon.
That's if they approve a season.
Or even set quota numbers.
Post by: hunter399 on December 16, 2023, 11:16:46 AM
Hopefully they have some integrity, accountability.
Here is the 2018 seasons for black bear/cougar.
Honestly if that's what they voted on,and voted yes.
Then I don't see how they can make any changes to season, except for what we did in 2018. At least for the next three years.
They should be held to there vote. If they don't like the 2018 season rules ,then they should read them before voting.
They would have to revote on this petition and vote it out .
Before making any other changes besides 2018 rules.
At this point ,the only thing we can do is hold them to there vote and be accountable for there actions.
My opinion it pretty much a guarantee at this point ,we will have a season,with rules and bag limits same as 2018,which a season with bag limits occurred in 2018.
Unless they revote the petition.
At least one positive.
Makes me wonder what the legal stand point is if they don't change season to exactly 2018 rules and regulations.
Looks like to me.
Northeast A September 1 opening.
Blues September 1 opening.
One bear bag limits east.
Two bear bag limits west.
Cougar stays the same season .
With quotas from 2018.
Link to 2018 big game regs.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01984
Post by: hunter399 on December 16, 2023, 12:49:16 PM
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.
I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.
Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.
Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions
I think this petition was pushed through without an official submission. Just in time for the three year season setting process.
They did not make the submission paper available for public viewing before the vote.
Voting on a petition that had not officially been submitted should not be voted on.
Post by: saylean on December 16, 2023, 01:17:27 PM
Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.
I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.
Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.
Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions
Interesting find coyotehunter
Post by: bigtex on December 16, 2023, 01:24:41 PM
Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.The petition link is on the commission meeting agenda
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.
I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.
Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.
Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions
I think this petition was pushed through without an official submission. Just in time for the three year season setting process.
They did not make the submission paper available for public viewing before the vote.
Voting on a petition that had not officially been submitted should not be voted on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2023/14-16dec2023-agenda
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: hunter399 on December 16, 2023, 01:36:19 PM
Like said ,Sorry I've been back tracking through there petition.
Which is does not show the official application paperwork. As all other petitions do.
It does not say anything about 2018 rules.
So they have no accountability to roll back to 2018.
I'm still working through it.
But I believe.
It shows a quota chart similar to 2018 for cougar.
But also says they will count all safety removal towards the quota.
Which pretty much means in many areas the quota will be done before the season even opens.
Season will close March 31,no April seasons.
Bear will be September 1 statewide,one bear bag limits.
Not sure if they can even vote on a petition,without showing the official application paperwork. Not sure if that's a loop hole or what.
Honestly we should petition,that there petition be thrown out do to inadequate paperwork.
Just my thoughts.
You can't vote on a petition that doesn't show you officially submitted. Also that official application would show exactly the rules and wac laws that are to be amended.
90 page report,no application for petition.
Seems a little strange.
You can go to WDFW petition page ,click on any petition and see the application page . Except there petition.
Dare ya ,here is a link.
Clink on any petition,I can see there application paper.
Except the one they just voted on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/petitions
Interesting find coyotehunter
Just seems strange to me.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 16, 2023, 01:42:41 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-12/combined-bear-cougar-petition.pdf
Post by: javman on December 16, 2023, 02:00:17 PM
Recording is here: https://tvw.org/video/washington-fish-and-wildlife-commission-2023121005/?eventID=2023121005 (https://tvw.org/video/washington-fish-and-wildlife-commission-2023121005/?eventID=2023121005)
I counted 38 speakers. 27 were in support of the petition to change cougar and bear seasons and 11 against. The first 17 speakers were in support. Five have direct positions at Washington Wildlife First, and a sixth appears to be the spouse of one of those.
It would be interesting to know if the other 70-100 people who didn't get to speak were in support or against. The deck sure seemed to be stacked.
Here is a list of all of the speakers who supported the petition, along with any affiliations that they declared or I found online. At the start of each line is the approximate time that they started speaking in the video.
- 40:44 Julia Zelman, Communications Director of Washington Wildlife First
- 42:40 Ann Prezyna, Secretary of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/ann-prezyna/
- 44:55 Josh Rosenau, Lake Forest Park, Director of Policy & Advocacy for Mountain Lion Foundation, https://mountainlion.org/team/
- 47:10 Ronald Reed, Spokane, Vice President of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/ron-reed/
- 50:00 Rachel Haymon, Klickitat County, member of Coexisting with Cougars. (She also shows up on the Friends of the White Salmon River website at https://friendsofthewhitesalmon.org/ribbon-of-life-series/)
- 52:15 Patricia Arnold, Klickitat County, Friends of the White Salmon River
- 54:30 David Linn, Grays Harbor, Treasurer of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/david-linn/
- 56:45 Clair Loebs Davis, President of Washington Wildlife First, https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/claire-davis/
- 59:15 John Rosapepe, Pacific Northwest Representative of Endangered Species Coalition, https://www.endangered.org/mission/staff/
- 1:02:15 Rachel Bjork, Board of Directors at Northwest Animal Rights Network, https://narn.org/board/
- 1:04:30 Lorelei Leah McFadden, King County
- 1:05:20 Debra Reed, Spokane, appears to be wife of speaker #4 from Washington Wildlife First per https://wawildlifefirst.org/our-people/ron-reed/
- 1:07:40 Oren Ashlinazi, Lynnwood
- 1:08:10 Lisa Eschenbach, Seattle
- 1:09:20 Ben Wolk, King County
- 1:11:30 Bob McCoy, Chair of the Mountain Lion Foundation, https://mountainlion.org/team/bob-mccoy/
- 1:14:20 Coleman Byrnes, "involved in the local land trust and several salmon enhancement groups, but speaking for himself"
- 1:25:00 Michael Shurgot, Member of Endangered Species Coalition
- 1:26:45 Joy Markgraf, Klickitat County
- 1:37:30 Lucy Larkin, King County
- 1:38:45 Lynn Okita, Pierce County, Board Chair of Western Wildlife Outreach, a nonprofit based in WA, and is a member of the Pacific Wolf Coalition Steering Committee
- 1:42:35 Dr. Susan Kane-Ronning, Co-Chair of WA Sierra Club Committee
- 1:45:10 Martha Hall, Skagit County, one of the two people who "filed the legal action alleging that the department failed to properly notify the public that it was considering approval of the spring bear hunt" according to https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2021/jan/05/field-reports-lawsuit-filed-to-challenge-spring-be/
- 1:47:40 Eric Lagally, King County, "volunteers for several wildlife and environmental non-profits in the Puget Sound Region"
- 1:52:15 Gabrielle Gilbert, Klickitat County
- 1:57:06 Adrienne Dorf, King County, found on Sierra Club "Wildlife Committee" https://www.sierraclub.org/washington/blog/2019/11/striking-balance-proposed-conservation-plan-for-washingtons-wolves
- 2:00:30 Mark Elbroch, Director of the Cougar Program for Panthera, Co-Lead on WA Olympic Cougar Project. Author of The Cougar Conundrum: Sharing the World with a Successful Predator
The list of people who spoke against the petition to change cougar and bear seasons (I think they all introduced themselves as hunters):
- 1:15:40 Will Christison, Arizona, Member of Conservation Coalition of Washington
- 1:18:50 Dane Czarnecki, BHA
- 1:20:40 Mike Herz
- 1:22:50 Ryan Garrett
- 1:30:00 Douglas Boze, President of the American Bear Foundation
- 1:32:40 Jon Dykes
- 1:35:15 Kelsey Ross
- 1:41:00 James Boze
- 1:49:30 Jeff Holbrook
- 1:54:40 Sam Oliver
- 1:58:30 Carl Barner
Post by: blackdog on December 16, 2023, 02:10:37 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on December 16, 2023, 02:13:10 PM
Post by: Tbar on December 16, 2023, 02:30:01 PM
I have a big problem believing that speaker list was organically generated.:yeah:
Not a chance..
Post by: Tbar on December 16, 2023, 02:30:48 PM
Post by: cem3434 on December 16, 2023, 03:13:17 PM
Post by: blackdog on December 16, 2023, 03:44:34 PM
Post by: RC on December 16, 2023, 05:49:56 PM
This is not over!
Can you expand on this?
Post by: blackdog on December 16, 2023, 06:53:04 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 16, 2023, 08:21:38 PM
I didn't see it in there 90 page report.
I didn't really want to read through there whole garbage report.
So I was just gonna find the form in the report,so I could look at an outline of changes.
Not sure if the form even matters at this point.
But all other petitions include it. :dunno: