Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 07:58:27 AM
A word about me... You know how some people grew up in families who never hunted, and then later in life they want to hunt but have no idea where to start or how to go about it? This is me, only with automotive skills. Nobody in my family was into cars or motor repair. As far as I was concerned, what happens under the hood of an auto is magic and when it breaks, you take it to a magician to fix it. Until last year I had never even done an oil change myself. I have recently been trying to teach myself how to do some basic maintenance on small motors (oil/filter changes, Carburetor replacements, etc). I have a Ford Superduty that I have started to do oil changes and fuel filter changes on as well. Baby steps...
Anyway, that background is to say, I know next to nothing about what I am about to get into with this project. I may end up doing terrible damage to the bike (visualize the 10 year old who disassembles a calculator and then realizes they have no idea how to put it back together...). Feel free to mock my ignorance but try to be kind! Use small words if offering advice!
With that out of the way, here is my situation.
-The bike sat for several years with about 3/4 of a tank of unleaded gas in it (it was not ethanol free gas of course).
-The battery of course died somewhere around 2015 or so I am guessing
-When I moved from Bothell to Monroe in 2017, I thought it would be easier to move if I could start it up and use the engine to maneuver it rather than push it. I replaced the battery and it would not even turnover. I believe the dash would light up, but nothing happened when I turned the key. No clicking, not trying to turn over. just silence.
-Fast forward to this month. I have purchased, but not installed a new battery. I want to do some other tasks before I try to turn it over again. My plan is to:
-Remove the old nasty gas
-Change the plugs
-do an oil change
-clean the carb well
-replace the air filter
Using you-tube, I have figured out how to remove the fuel tank and removed all the gas from the tank. I have also removed the oil filter and drained all the oil (left it overnight to drain since it is cold out and I cannot run the oil to heat it up).
Over the next few days I will replace the oil filter and oil. Replace the spark plugs (properly gapped and torqued).
Then I will pull the carb off and start the cleaning process. I ordered a kit with new o-rings, jets, etc and will likely replace most if not all of those parts. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B9MLMQFZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I will replace the air-filter since I will have the carburetor out anyway.
At this point I am guessing (hoping) I can put it all back together, install the battery and see what happens from there. It worries me that it would not turn over last time I tried so I might have a stuck starter? I figure I will cross that bridge once I get the obvious and easy stuff done. I also figure I will need to replace the tires since they have been sitting so long.
I am assuming there is more nasty gas in the engine somewhere. Are there other places I need to go to remove the old gas? (and I will use ethanol free whenever I can going forward...) Or does this not really matter since I will have cleaned the carburetor?
Photo of where I am currently at.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 21, 2023, 08:04:30 AM
Post by: Sandberm on December 21, 2023, 08:14:43 AM
Ive got an old BMW motorcycle that hasn't run in about the same amount of time so I'll be curious how this goes.
Come to think of it,... Ive got a shed full of old boat motors, lawn mowers and motorcycles....in the same state. Im proud to say i don't have any dead cars up on blocks or parked in the weeds however. :-\
Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 08:19:12 AM
run sea foam in it.
I have that in my Amazon cart!
Post by: TommyH on December 21, 2023, 08:26:37 AM
Post by: Encore 280 on December 21, 2023, 08:45:14 AM
Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 09:02:59 AM
run sea foam in it.
I have that in my Amazon cart!
Will the seafoam take care of any remaining stale gas? I know it cleans things out.
Great idea on trying without plugs. I figure something has siezed due to sitting with stale gas in it so I will try the clutch popping idea (it is an electric start though).
I had someone recommend putting some of "Mikes Mystery Oil" ontop of the cylinders to see if that helps.
Post by: TommyH on December 21, 2023, 09:09:56 AM
run sea foam in it.
I have that in my Amazon cart!
Will the seafoam take care of any remaining stale gas? I know it cleans things out.
Great idea on trying without plugs. I figure something has siezed due to sitting with stale gas in it so I will try the clutch popping idea (it is an electric start though).
I had someone recommend putting some of "Mikes Mystery Oil" ontop of the cylinders to see if that helps.
Yes on the oil in the cylinder. Also Make sure your fuel lines are not clogged up, pull and push some air threw.
Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 11:13:34 AM
run sea foam in it.
I have that in my Amazon cart!
Will the seafoam take care of any remaining stale gas? I know it cleans things out.
Great idea on trying without plugs. I figure something has siezed due to sitting with stale gas in it so I will try the clutch popping idea (it is an electric start though).
I had someone recommend putting some of "Mikes Mystery Oil" ontop of the cylinders to see if that helps.
Yes on the oil in the cylinder. Also Make sure your fuel lines are not clogged up, pull and push some air threw.
First of many dumb questions How does one do this? Compressed air in the hose near the petcock and wait to see it blow out in the cylinders? or perhaps out of the hose that leads into the Carb?
Post by: hunter399 on December 21, 2023, 11:22:46 AM
I'd worry about the piston first .run sea foam in it.
I have that in my Amazon cart!
Will the seafoam take care of any remaining stale gas? I know it cleans things out.
Great idea on trying without plugs. I figure something has siezed due to sitting with stale gas in it so I will try the clutch popping idea (it is an electric start though).
I had someone recommend putting some of "Mikes Mystery Oil" ontop of the cylinders to see if that helps.
Yes on the oil in the cylinder. Also Make sure your fuel lines are not clogged up, pull and push some air threw.
First of many dumb questions How does one do this? Compressed air in the hose near the petcock and wait to see it blow out in the cylinders? or perhaps out of the hose that leads into the Carb?
If the piston stuck ,fuel and air won't help.
Alot of YouTube out there ,they may help ya.
The piston stuck ,put ATF in the cylinder head ,overnight and let it sit.
Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 11:26:03 AM
Post by: hunter399 on December 21, 2023, 11:28:16 AM
ATF = Automatic Transmission fluid??Yup,in the spark plug hole,let it sit overnight.
Some people will make a recipe of junk to put in.
You can WD 40,ATF,oil, pb blaster , mystery oil, whatever,put it in there.
Mixed together.
Post by: luvmystang67 on December 21, 2023, 11:49:27 AM
If you pull the tank and the carb, the only other place there should be fuel is in the fuel line between them, which will probably all run out on the floor when you pull the carb. If there is an in-line fuel filter, you might replace that while you're doing all of this, because fuel could sit in that. Otherwise, you should be good to go and I personally see no reason to run sea foam. I run sea foam in things that I'm too lazy to do what you're doing. It helps clean out the carb, when you're not manually cleaning it out. I see no reason (and would not) run sea foam in the first tank of fuel, given all the work you're doing. I suspect you could leave the plugs, do the fuel tank, fuel drain, carb part kit replacement... maybe a new fuel filter and battery and it'd probably fire right up. New oil and filter is a must, but that shouldn't impact whether or not it starts.
I suspect your piston is probably NOT frozen up and is likely just fine. When you take the spark plugs out, there is no compression, and it should make the bike VERY easy to turn over. To test this and avoid hurting anything you could put it in gear, and do essentially a compression start on it (get it moving with the clutch held in, and drop the clutch) and that should turn over the piston. All you want to do is verify that your pistons aren't seized from sitting, which... they are probably NOT seized if its been in a garage. If it had a kick starter, you'd just pull the plugs and lightly push the kicker over... because it likely doesn't have a kick starter, I'd just put it in gear, roll it, drop the clutch, and validate that the pistons are free to move. If you hear the pistons pushing air in and out of the sparkplug holes, you're golden.
I'd say 95%+ of the time, when a bike was put away running, with fuel in it, a simple drain of the old gas from the tank, carb and fuel lines... and a carb cleanout (or kit with new components) is enough to get the bike to run just fine. The oil change is a must, just because you should change it. Spark plug change is probably not required, but you might as well. A wire brush to the existing plugs when you have them out would probably suffice.
One of the things we usually do when buying something like this is jump-start the battery, spray starting fluid into the air intake, and turn it over. If it fires at all when you do this, it'll run once the fuel system is cleaned out... and most things do fire when you do this... and usually pistons are not frozen unless something was left outside.
good luck, take a lot of photos as you disassemble, and you'll be just fine. It looks scary, but I promise its manageable.
Post by: Chris57 on December 21, 2023, 11:54:09 AM
Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 12:23:34 PM
Post by: Rob on December 21, 2023, 12:41:17 PM
Sounds like you have a great start on this.
If you pull the tank and the carb, the only other place there should be fuel is in the fuel line between them, which will probably all run out on the floor when you pull the carb. If there is an in-line fuel filter, you might replace that while you're doing all of this, because fuel could sit in that. Otherwise, you should be good to go and I personally see no reason to run sea foam. I run sea foam in things that I'm too lazy to do what you're doing. It helps clean out the carb, when you're not manually cleaning it out. I see no reason (and would not) run sea foam in the first tank of fuel, given all the work you're doing. I suspect you could leave the plugs, do the fuel tank, fuel drain, carb part kit replacement... maybe a new fuel filter and battery and it'd probably fire right up. New oil and filter is a must, but that shouldn't impact whether or not it starts.
I suspect your piston is probably NOT frozen up and is likely just fine. When you take the spark plugs out, there is no compression, and it should make the bike VERY easy to turn over. To test this and avoid hurting anything you could put it in gear, and do essentially a compression start on it (get it moving with the clutch held in, and drop the clutch) and that should turn over the piston. All you want to do is verify that your pistons aren't seized from sitting, which... they are probably NOT seized if its been in a garage. If it had a kick starter, you'd just pull the plugs and lightly push the kicker over... because it likely doesn't have a kick starter, I'd just put it in gear, roll it, drop the clutch, and validate that the pistons are free to move. If you hear the pistons pushing air in and out of the sparkplug holes, you're golden.
I'd say 95%+ of the time, when a bike was put away running, with fuel in it, a simple drain of the old gas from the tank, carb and fuel lines... and a carb cleanout (or kit with new components) is enough to get the bike to run just fine. The oil change is a must, just because you should change it. Spark plug change is probably not required, but you might as well. A wire brush to the existing plugs when you have them out would probably suffice.
One of the things we usually do when buying something like this is jump-start the battery, spray starting fluid into the air intake, and turn it over. If it fires at all when you do this, it'll run once the fuel system is cleaned out... and most things do fire when you do this... and usually pistons are not frozen unless something was left outside.
good luck, take a lot of photos as you disassemble, and you'll be just fine. It looks scary, but I promise its manageable.
exceptionally helpful, thanks
Post by: hunter399 on December 21, 2023, 12:56:07 PM
I thought so too,very good post.👍Sounds like you have a great start on this.
If you pull the tank and the carb, the only other place there should be fuel is in the fuel line between them, which will probably all run out on the floor when you pull the carb. If there is an in-line fuel filter, you might replace that while you're doing all of this, because fuel could sit in that. Otherwise, you should be good to go and I personally see no reason to run sea foam. I run sea foam in things that I'm too lazy to do what you're doing. It helps clean out the carb, when you're not manually cleaning it out. I see no reason (and would not) run sea foam in the first tank of fuel, given all the work you're doing. I suspect you could leave the plugs, do the fuel tank, fuel drain, carb part kit replacement... maybe a new fuel filter and battery and it'd probably fire right up. New oil and filter is a must, but that shouldn't impact whether or not it starts.
I suspect your piston is probably NOT frozen up and is likely just fine. When you take the spark plugs out, there is no compression, and it should make the bike VERY easy to turn over. To test this and avoid hurting anything you could put it in gear, and do essentially a compression start on it (get it moving with the clutch held in, and drop the clutch) and that should turn over the piston. All you want to do is verify that your pistons aren't seized from sitting, which... they are probably NOT seized if its been in a garage. If it had a kick starter, you'd just pull the plugs and lightly push the kicker over... because it likely doesn't have a kick starter, I'd just put it in gear, roll it, drop the clutch, and validate that the pistons are free to move. If you hear the pistons pushing air in and out of the sparkplug holes, you're golden.
I'd say 95%+ of the time, when a bike was put away running, with fuel in it, a simple drain of the old gas from the tank, carb and fuel lines... and a carb cleanout (or kit with new components) is enough to get the bike to run just fine. The oil change is a must, just because you should change it. Spark plug change is probably not required, but you might as well. A wire brush to the existing plugs when you have them out would probably suffice.
One of the things we usually do when buying something like this is jump-start the battery, spray starting fluid into the air intake, and turn it over. If it fires at all when you do this, it'll run once the fuel system is cleaned out... and most things do fire when you do this... and usually pistons are not frozen unless something was left outside.
good luck, take a lot of photos as you disassemble, and you'll be just fine. It looks scary, but I promise its manageable.
exceptionally helpful, thanks
Post by: luvmystang67 on December 21, 2023, 04:03:33 PM
The only thing you can mess up here that would be a major problem are that you really don't want anything but gasoline in your fuel system (except maybe seafoam... but that is not something I'd start with). Also, the biggest thing you can really do to mess up an engine is to have too much liquid in your combustion chamber. A LITTLE bit of fogger or WD-40 through the spark plug hole is just fine if its actually needed (piston seized), but if you leave liquid in there AND you put the plugs back in, you risk bending your piston rod since liquid is non-compressible. If you do end up putting something in there, you'd want to turn the engine over with the plugs OUT to clear any of the liquid out of there. If you want to research hydro-locking, this is what you're trying to avoid. Since its easy to forget, I wouldn't spray anything in that spark plug hole unless you have a seizure issue. Additionally, if you do have a seizure issue, there's a good chance your engine isn't long for the world once you do get it going... we can talk more about that if it happens to you.
I think this stuff is a ton of fun.
Post by: Encore 280 on December 21, 2023, 05:10:32 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on December 21, 2023, 06:27:35 PM
Post by: pd on December 21, 2023, 06:38:16 PM
Rebuilding a carburetor is actually not very difficult on a motorcycle, so if it comes to that, don't be afraid of the task.
This is why we never leave gasoline engines (motorcycles, generators, chain saws, etc.) over the winter with ethanol fuel in the tank.
Post by: Rob on December 22, 2023, 07:06:20 AM
Also, I'm in CdA and happy to come up and give you a hand if you get in a real tight spot. Part of the fun though is guessing and checking. Once you get the fundamentals on a bike down, the other applications get easier quite quickly.
The only thing you can mess up here that would be a major problem are that you really don't want anything but gasoline in your fuel system (except maybe seafoam... but that is not something I'd start with). Also, the biggest thing you can really do to mess up an engine is to have too much liquid in your combustion chamber. A LITTLE bit of fogger or WD-40 through the spark plug hole is just fine if its actually needed (piston seized), but if you leave liquid in there AND you put the plugs back in, you risk bending your piston rod since liquid is non-compressible. If you do end up putting something in there, you'd want to turn the engine over with the plugs OUT to clear any of the liquid out of there. If you want to research hydro-locking, this is what you're trying to avoid. Since its easy to forget, I wouldn't spray anything in that spark plug hole unless you have a seizure issue. Additionally, if you do have a seizure issue, there's a good chance your engine isn't long for the world once you do get it going... we can talk more about that if it happens to you.
I think this stuff is a ton of fun.
Very kind offer! I am in Cocolalla so about 45 min north of I-90. Will let you know if I get in that far over my head.
I should know a lot more about what is going on in about 2 weeks after all the parts I ordered arrive and I am able to get a few hours poking at with a stick.
It has been garaged 100% of the time since I parked it so that is good news. Sounds like some Sili Kroil is good to have on the shelf regardless of this project.
Post by: Angry Perch on December 22, 2023, 10:15:42 AM
Post by: Chris57 on December 22, 2023, 01:22:27 PM
Good point on checking all the safety devices also, many have been bitten and embarrassed by them, myself included.
Post by: TommyH on December 22, 2023, 06:00:51 PM
I'm not sure where the stuck piston/ rings stuff is coming from. If it didn't click when you tried to start it, it wasn't trying. Most of us have been burned (embarrassed :chuckle:) by neutral safety switches, brake/ clutch safety switches, (boat lanyards :bash:), etc. so take all of that into account. Sounds like a fun project.It’s coming from common sense, and the guy that built mine, with 7 built Harley's in his shop, that advises to bump (yearly) them over so the rings don’t stick/adhere/form any thing that can turn into something down the road. Having part of its life on the wet side.. it’s possible. that’s why I suggested making sure it was not the problem. Pull the clutch in roll ahead, open clutch.. either stuck rings or not.. starter or electrical if not stuck.
Post by: hunter399 on December 22, 2023, 07:08:12 PM
:yeah:I'm not sure where the stuck piston/ rings stuff is coming from. If it didn't click when you tried to start it, it wasn't trying. Most of us have been burned (embarrassed :chuckle:) by neutral safety switches, brake/ clutch safety switches, (boat lanyards :bash:), etc. so take all of that into account. Sounds like a fun project.It’s coming from common sense, and the guy that built mine, with 7 built Harley's in his shop, that advises to bump (yearly) them over so the rings don’t stick/adhere/form any thing that can turn into something down the road. Having part of its life on the wet side.. it’s possible. that’s why I suggested making sure it was not the problem. Pull the clutch in roll ahead, open clutch.. either stuck rings or not.. starter or electrical if not stuck.
Should roll over easy without sparkplug.
Post by: Caseknife on December 22, 2023, 07:48:31 PM
Post by: Rob on December 23, 2023, 04:45:30 PM
I will know more about the failure to start problem once I reassemble everything. It very well could be a stupid user issue...
Two queations.
1. I plan to put some marvel mystery oil ontop of the cylinders and let that sit for a few days while I work on the carb next weekwnd. How much should I put in each cylinder? 0.75 to 1.0 Oz?
2. There is stubborn grime on the chrome. Can anyone recomend a good chrome cleaner?
Post by: Encore 280 on December 23, 2023, 05:20:02 PM
Post by: hunter399 on December 23, 2023, 05:21:42 PM
Got the oil change done today. Also spent so.e time degreasi g the grime that is all over the bike. Parts for the carb and new plugs arive next week.
I will know more about the failure to start problem once I reassemble everything. It very well could be a stupid user issue...
Two queations.
1. I plan to put some marvel mystery oil ontop of the cylinders and let that sit for a few days while I work on the carb next weekwnd. How much should I put in each cylinder? 0.75 to 1.0 Oz?
2. There is stubborn grime on the chrome. Can anyone recomend a good chrome cleaner?
As little a possible in the cylinder. It may seep past the rings and into your brand new oil change. When it's left there extend time.
I wouldn't put anything in there,till you figure out if it's stuck.
Does the bike have a kick start.
If so you should be able to push the kick start with your hand ,with spark plugs removed.
If it doesn't have kick start. Then do as TommyH said.
Pull clutch in ,pop in gear,roll forward without spark plug.
Piston should move up and down pretty easy.
If your just worried about lubrication on your rings ,or something like that before starting. Like a dry start,since it's been parked a while. Amount of oil in there would be very small.
Like half a shot glass or less.
Most times when I try to start something that hasn't ran in a while.
You just use chainsaw gas.
Put a half shot glass of some chainsaw gas in the spark plug hole.
Put spark plug in that has spark.
And start it. No need to lubricant piston and rings from that point on.
There is basically no need to put anything in there,if your piston is not stuck.
Post by: hunter399 on December 23, 2023, 05:30:51 PM
This guy has 100 hundreds of motorcycle ,small engine repair videos.
Look through his videos,he might have a bike similar to yours that he has worked on.
Post by: Rob on December 24, 2023, 08:18:50 AM
It is an electric start.
I will check that guy out.
I have been using this guy for the carb removal, cleaning and reinstall instructions
Post by: Sandberm on December 24, 2023, 08:35:51 AM
You gotta watch some musti1 man.Oh man. I've never seen that YT channel but it looks like something I'd like. I love bringing old small engines back to life. :tup:
This guy has 100 hundreds of motorcycle ,small engine repair videos.
Look through his videos,he might have a bike similar to yours that he has worked on.
Post by: hunter399 on December 24, 2023, 09:58:58 AM
Not only does he get old junk up and running.
In alot of older videos,he gets this stuff from old yard sales,free off the side of the road. Repairs and resales.
Also if he can't get it running, he'll tear down and figure out how it blew up.
He is pretty good at it.
His videos are a little long,about an hour or so.
Post by: hunter399 on December 24, 2023, 11:25:33 AM
Ok-I will hold off on the mystery oil until i see if the cylinders are siezedYa ,he seems pretty good too.
It is an electric start.
I will check that guy out.
I have been using this guy for the carb removal, cleaning and reinstall instructions
Checked it out.
Post by: CastleRocker on December 24, 2023, 12:06:37 PM
I'd make sure your bike is in neutral (with the neutral light lit) when you try to start it. Also, before you pour stuff down your cylinders that doesn't belong in there, pull your plugs, put it in 3rd or so gear, and roll it forward to see if it's semi seized. I'll bet it's not. I've seen a Roadstar that sat for about 12 years in Alabama humidity fire up with new gas. That engine is one of the best push-rod V-twins I've seen. The fuel pump is my only complaint. Why it's even there is beyond me, but as long as it's not over 100° it's fine. If it is really hot out, well that a whole other story.
Post by: Rob on December 24, 2023, 02:11:52 PM
Btw, while cleaning the chrome on the bathroom showerdoor today (prepping for guests), I noticed the waterspots were coming off pretty easy with one of the magic eraser sponges... a dim light flickered in my brain... where was I trying to get spots off chrome recently... oh yeah! The motorcycle!
I gave it a go on the chrome heads and the spotting came off pretty easy!
Amazon Basics Extra Durable Cleaning Eraser, White, 14 Count https://a.co/d/blvwygm
I really enjoyed riding this bike when it was last running so really hoping it gets going again. I don't have buget to drop a couple grand on shop work but pice-mealing the fixes over several months and saving labor costs puts it in reach. Not to mention the education.
Below is an updated photo after the oil change and some basic spit and shine.
Appreciate all the ideas. Hope everyone has a fantastic Chrismas!
Post by: Angry Perch on December 26, 2023, 11:17:11 AM
I'm not sure where the stuck piston/ rings stuff is coming from. If it didn't click when you tried to start it, it wasn't trying. Most of us have been burned (embarrassed :chuckle:) by neutral safety switches, brake/ clutch safety switches, (boat lanyards :bash:), etc. so take all of that into account. Sounds like a fun project.It’s coming from common sense, and the guy that built mine, with 7 built Harley's in his shop, that advises to bump (yearly) them over so the rings don’t stick/adhere/form any thing that can turn into something down the road. Having part of its life on the wet side.. it’s possible. that’s why I suggested making sure it was not the problem. Pull the clutch in roll ahead, open clutch.. either stuck rings or not.. starter or electrical if not stuck.
Sorry, I wasn't saying it may not be stuck, but if the starter made no noise, it was not trying to turn it over. That's all.
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2023, 02:44:22 PM
-oil and filter change done
-spark plugs replaced
-carb pulled
-Carb cleaned but not re-assembled.
-Air filter removed and awaiting replacement part.
General thoughts.
I really hope I can get the carb back on! The throttle cables were tricky to remove and the electical lines to the carb seem to have been routed by ompa loompas with tiny hands and no slack... other than that pulling the carb was pretty straightforward.
The carb was remarkably clean given it has been sitting over a decade with ethanol gas in it. I expected to see sludge and varnish everywhere but it was clean. The jets and other tiny holes/passageways could have been clogged though so no regrets.
I cleaned all the parts with carb cleaner and a brush, plus I soaked all the little jet parts in a gallon of the Berryman Chem-Dip Carburetor cleaner for an hour or so. I blew everything out with compressed sir several times. I bought a set of carb brushes and picks which worked great for ensuring all the little passageways were clean.
I am going to wait to re-assemble. My carb kit from Amazon was supposed to arrive Thursday. It made it all the way to Spokane and then some kind of damage occured and it is now on its way back to Texas... no idea what the damage was but this is the first time I have had that happen before. Anyway I have to re-order and it will be here next week. The brass parts all seem clean and in great condition so I plan to re-use them. I want the kit however so I can replace orings and the float bowl gasket.
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2023, 02:45:12 PM
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2023, 02:49:01 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on December 30, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Post by: Westside88 on December 30, 2023, 05:43:08 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on December 30, 2023, 05:46:46 PM
Looks like it may be varnished fuel from sitting so long.
That's what I was thinking.
Post by: SeaRun1 on December 30, 2023, 06:09:13 PM
Was there a gasket there to begin with? It may be just some residual RTV which is pretty commonly used on bikes. Have you thought about purchasing (or downloading) a shop manual for the bike?
SR1
Post by: HntnFsh on December 30, 2023, 06:48:47 PM
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2023, 07:29:30 PM
The amber/tan gummy stuff is more like rubber than it is varnish or sludge. Carb cleaner did not phase it-it needed to be picked/scraped out of the channel.
Someone has been in this carb before me. I bought the bike used so that is not surprising. A few of the screws were stripped and were pretty difficult to remove. The kit has replacement screws so I will be swapping them out. I am wondering if the last person who worked on the carb was trying to get a better seal and put something in the channel with the gasket.
Not planning on putting anything in the channel other than the gasket when I reassemble it.
A manual would probably be a good investment.
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2023, 07:37:07 PM
It occured to me the other day that assuming I get it started, I likely won't be able to run the bike till April when my driveway and the access roads lose their snow! I may have to trailer it to dry pavement so I can test ride it. I won't be able to wait that long!
Post by: SeaRun1 on December 30, 2023, 07:43:49 PM
SR1
Post by: Rob on December 30, 2023, 08:11:49 PM
We can ride on the mid-winter break trip around Banks Lake!
SR1
Last year I came home to 8 inches of newly fallen snow and another 4 into the evening! Barely got the RV up the driveway!
Post by: SeaRun1 on December 30, 2023, 09:34:28 PM
Looking forward to you getting that bike running.
SR1
Post by: Jpmiller on December 31, 2023, 07:32:42 AM
Post by: Alex4200 on December 31, 2023, 07:55:44 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 02, 2024, 09:22:42 AM
The very last step in your process. Make sure everything is in working order before you hop on it for a test ride. In particular, the brakes. Two years ago my wife had to pick a bike up off someone I knew and call for help. He was test riding on a cul de sac after rebuilding a bike. Guess he didn’t ensure brakes were working properly and the front brake locked up on him quicker than he expected. Resulted in a broken hip and several broken ribs. And he was an experienced rider.
I second this. One thing I really like when working on things like water pumps on cars is that the sealant usually needs 24 hours to cure, which gives you time to think about what you might have forgotten and look at your photos that you took along the way to see if anything jogs your memory. Without this, I'd say 80% of the time, I get so excited to "try" what I've put together, that I forget something. A refill on oil, an electrical connection, a refill on antifreeze, turning over the engine to get water or anything else out of the cylinders, a tool not back in the tool box... you get the idea. Its REALLY REALLY EASY to forget something when you're excited to try to start your machine. Highly recommend taking a day off when you think you're done, just to think about the whole thing and chill out to recall what you might have forgotten. If its not a day, take a couple of hours and just run through everything you did and ensure that you've buttoned up any loose ends.
Post by: Rob on January 03, 2024, 09:18:01 AM
Parts came for the Carb. I am going to re-assemble the carb today, or Friday and try to re-install it on Saturday I think.
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2024, 08:59:08 AM
I was worried about being able to fish one of the wire harnesses thru from one side to the other as it was a tight fit and odd routing. I had an idea to use needle nose pliers and paracord to run the route, then tie it to the harness and pull it back thru. Worked Great!
I was glad that I purchased the carb rebuild kit as a few of the orings and the gasket were pretty stiff and worn looking. One o-ring just snapped in two when I pulled it out. I also replaced the float needle as it has a rubber tip, to screws from the top of the carb (just because) and the 4 screws holding the float bowl in place as they had been stripped by the last person who cleaned the carb. Darn near had to drill one of them out but a manual impact driver was able to get it loose. Photo of the parts I replaced is below.
I have a question on the float needle. It hangs on the float with a little wire hanger (circled in blue in the photo). When I rotate the float up and down, it does not hit the wire bale at all. This is true with the old and new float needle. I assume that is OK, and that since the bowl sits upside down, the needle is moved by gravity/direct contact to the metal tab on the float assembly. Does that sound right?
Second question will be in the next post due to photo limit of two per post.
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2024, 09:01:27 AM
It is circled in red in the attached photo. This is NOT the fuel line - that is 3x larger than this pipe and can be seen to the upper right of the red circle.
Is this just some kind of vent? or did I neglect to attach it to something?
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2024, 09:10:14 AM
When I re-attached and mounted the throttle cables I noticed that when I increase the throttle and then release it, the cable does not pull the throttle back to idle - it just sits on full throttle (or at whatever setting I rotate it to).
There is a bit of slack in the cable that should return it to idle, but not much. I am assuming I need to somehow adjust the cables so that it goes back to idle when released on it's own. (I did verify that I put them back onto the carb correctly). I am a bit confused firstly as to what has changed that has made the return to idle cable no longer bring it back on it's own. Secondly I am confused as to how to adjust the cables to get them to work as expected. I can do some research on line on that pretty easily. Just seems curious and has me worried I did something incorrectly on the re-install.
Post by: CP on January 04, 2024, 09:29:00 AM
Second question. There is a little elbow shaped brass colored pipe coming off the float bowl that seems to lead to nowhere.
It is circled in red in the attached photo. This is NOT the fuel line - that is 3x larger than this pipe and can be seen to the upper right of the red circle.
Is this just some kind of vent? or did I neglect to attach it to something?
Looks like a bowl drain line.
Post by: Sandberm on January 04, 2024, 09:30:14 AM
Did you take the throttle off the handlebars? If so you may have slid the throttle tube back on too far and it is hanging up on the end of the handlebars. Or the cable is corroded. Get a new throttle cable or squirt some wd40 into the cable to lube it. Or, the slide its getting hung up because you did not reassemble it correctly.
Post by: Encore 280 on January 04, 2024, 09:30:50 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 04, 2024, 10:12:40 AM
On the throttle, there's usually a spring inside the throttle body (in the carb). Are you forgetting that spring? That is typically what drives the return of the throttle. If that is installed and still not returning your throttle, you have corrosion or a jam somewhere. If it did work before you took it apart, and now it doesn't, you've missed something in the carb. There's not really a setting for this. You COULD have some corrosion in the throttle line, but I kinda doubt it if its been stored inside. My guess is you've missed the spring, or have installed something 180 degrees in the throttle body. Check these things. There is no spring in the throttle handle itself, its all throttle body.
Post by: TommyH on January 04, 2024, 10:39:07 AM
Sometimes there are drains that COULD have hoses attached... but that are not required. You might want to drain your carb bowl for winter storage, and without a hose on it, it'd just run onto you engine (which isn't really a problem). It may not have had a drain tube attached...ever. I wouldn't worry too much about it, unless it starts spitting gasoline or you have an extra line somewhere.
On the throttle, there's usually a spring inside the throttle body (in the carb). Are you forgetting that spring? That is typically what drives the return of the throttle. If that is installed and still not returning your throttle, you have corrosion or a jam somewhere. If it did work before you took it apart, and now it doesn't, you've missed something in the carb. There's not really a setting for this. You COULD have some corrosion in the throttle line, but I kinda doubt it if its been stored inside. My guess is you've missed the spring, or have installed something 180 degrees in the throttle body. Check these things. There is no spring in the throttle handle itself, its all throttle body.
:yeah: also, you said you re-routed cable’s, make sure there is not to sharp of a bend in the cable, could be causing to much resistance for the spring to function correctly...
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2024, 12:00:59 PM
- Fuel bowl drain makes total sense. I am betting that is what the little elbow pipe is - especially since it is at the lowest point on the carb. Thanks!
- I did not remove anything on the handlebars
- I did not have any left over springs... I was very deliberate to put all the parts together as I removed them so I am not thinking I forgot a spring... I will explore this as a last resort though.
- I did not re-route the throttle cables, the routing I did was for the electrical wire harness coming out of the carb, and I routed it back to the same way it was set before
- I need to retract what I said earlier - I don't actually recall checking the throttle on the handlebar before I took the carb off so this could have been pre-existing. Some corrosion inside the cable could be the cause - but as noted it has never spent a night outside since I parked it so that would be odd. I will lube everything up and check again.
It will be Friday or Saturday before I can dig in again. I did get my new air filter so that can go on now. I think however I will wait to see if I can get it to start before I put that back on as it will make troubleshooting things easier with it off.
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2024, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: Rob on January 04, 2024, 12:18:10 PM
I had a lull at work so I took another look at it. there was some heavier grease/grime near the handle so I blew some carb cleaner in there and hit it with some compressed air. It now returns 95% of the way back to low throttle on its own. It takes about 1 second to go from full to minimum on its own which still seems slow. I blew some kroil in there to see if that would help. I will let that sit for a while and see what happens.
Post by: Rob on January 06, 2024, 04:03:15 PM
I decided to put the tank back on, and install the new battery and see what happened.
Tank install was straight forward and the battery went in fine. I turned the key to on and nothing happened. At all. No dash lights and no headlights and nothing happened when i hit the starter. I figured I had a wiring problem somewhere and was a bit frusterated as i really dont know how to even start on diagnosing that. I put some tools away and decided to read the manual and see if there was a kill switch somewhere I did not know about. As I read thru it I thought I should really check the fuses... I checked every fuse and sure enough the main 30 amp fuse was fried. I replaced it and the dash lights came right on! I hit the starter and it turned over fine. After a few short tries the engine came to life. I am positive the fuse was the problem I had 5 or 6 years ago when I tried it. I was in the middle of moving so I did not have time to diagnose it.
Regardless I am glad I cleaned the carb and drained that fuel- it needed it and I learned a lot in the process.
Next I removed the tank again and put the air filter assembly back on. I noticed when I was done that the throttle cables were no longer going back to idle. Grrrrr. I looked close at it and I was finally able to see what the problem was. As I tightened the clamp holding the airfilter to the carb, the clamp screw was pressing into the throttle cable assembly with just enough pressure to keep it from moving on its own. I repositioned clamp, re-tightened it and bingo -the throttle now snaps back to idle with authority!
I have a question to ask about the carb that I will post later. I also have a problem with the lights that i will post later. So not out of the woods, but getting close. (I will be replacing the tires and having someone who knows what they are doing do a once over of the brakes as well.)
Post by: HntnFsh on January 06, 2024, 05:20:18 PM
I figured it would fire up with minimal effort!
Post by: Rob on January 06, 2024, 06:14:52 PM
Ok, here is my last carb question. There is a hose connection coming off the side near the top of the carb. There is no hose to plug into it and I honestly don't think there ever was. Anyone know what this is for, and If I neglected to reconnect something?
Post by: Rob on January 06, 2024, 06:17:31 PM
And one more of it when the carb was totally off
Post by: Rob on January 06, 2024, 10:19:45 PM
Issue was that I had no headlights when turning on the ignition. I found the fuse was burning out everytime they tried to go on.
I now recall this was a pre-existing situation. I had after market driving lights installed when I got the bike. They are on the same fuse as the main light. At some point they started blowing the fuse for an unknown reason. Not being critical I just left them off figuring I would address them later as time allowed. 15 years have passed and I had totally forgotten about that issue. So for now I will turn them off and at some point I suppose they need to move to a dedicated inline fuse.
This has been replaced with a new issue - not critical though. The fuel level indicator is showing empty and the low fuel light flashes 8 times in a row. It sounds like the Fuel Meter Sending Unit has gone bad (probably due to bad fuel gumming something up). Looks like a 65 dollar part that is pretty easy to replace.
Post by: Angry Perch on January 07, 2024, 01:48:27 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on January 07, 2024, 02:38:20 PM
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 08, 2024, 10:44:39 AM
With fuses blowing, you can try ramping up the fuse strength to see if that fixes it. This isn't the MOST sound advice, but if a 10 amp fuse blows and a 15 amp fuse holds... I'm just running the 15 amp. What you're trying to prevent is a direct short and either will do that. If you ramp up to say double the fuse amperage and they're still blowing, you have an issue with wiring and a short. It may be a wire that has rubbed through somewhere and is touching the frame... something like that. Electrical sucks though. You really need a voltage meter to diagnose electrical, and you just start chasing it from the source, finding out where you have power and where you dont. Unknown fuses blowing is among the most frustrating (unfortunately).
No idea on the carb, but its fairly normal for there to be hoses to nowhere that are drains, air vents, etc on carbs. If you're pretty sure it wasn't hooked up, you're probably right.
Brakes are also not difficult once you get in there. On most bikes getting into the rear hub is kind of a pain. If they're disc brakes, they're really easy actually. It baffles me that brake jobs on cars cost so much.
Post by: Rob on January 08, 2024, 01:17:17 PM
It seams like he was talking about taking his time and easing through. Now that there is good progress the motivation is there to keep plugging away!! :IBCOOL:
Yeah - It is pretty fun to tinker with this stuff. It did take me 2-3 weeks to get the carb on and off - some of that was spent waiting for parts. I took that slow though. Probably a couple hours to get all the blocking parts removed and the carb off, another 6-8 cleaning and such, then an hour to re-assemble.
Thanks for the thoughts on the carb. I am pretty sure it is back the way I pulled it apart, but that one hose has me scratching my head. Wish I knew what the purpose was. It did start and run without it though so I am guessing it is just an air input/outflow of some kind. A buddy suggested it might be there to detect ambient pressure for proper air/fuel mix. That was as good of a theory as any I had (which is currently none!)
the lights are on a 15 fuse. I thought about bumping it to 20 just to see what happened. I think only lights are on that fuse. Next step would be to look for shorts and such as you suggest. For now I can just keep them off and still be legal.
I have a neighbor who does a lot of work on cars and bikes. I may see if he has any ideas on checking the brakes. But if I am having the tires replaced anyway I may just see if someone can look at them while they are in there.
Really appreciate all the ideas and such on this forum. It was quite helpful. I will keep everyone posted on the updates as I have them. I am going to be away for a few days so I won't have the ability to look at it for a while though.
Post by: Rob on January 16, 2024, 07:20:31 AM
Looks like it is the Vacuum chamber air vent hose. I think it is supposed to plug into the air filter, but I assume that is likely "optional"
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 16, 2024, 10:33:05 AM
Vacuum hoses CAN be very critical. Some carbs on old cars wont run well at all without a vacuum line installed, leak free. If you've got an old carbed car, and it runs like crap, check for leaks in the vacuum lines.
That said, I've never seen one on a motorcycle. I would assume that in this case it is like to ensure clean air gets in on the back side of a vacuum assisted carb function. If it runs well without it, I wouldn't really sweat it much, but if you're going to spend a lot of time on dirt roads, it might not be back to route it back to the air box, where it presumably ingests filtered air. I assume worst case scenario, some dirt gums up your carb a little, but its not like that is the main air source for the engine.
Post by: hunter399 on January 16, 2024, 10:51:28 AM
Will lead back to the air box or air filter box.
That's how it ensures it's not sucking up dirt.
That's what I've seen on other bikes.
Mainly a 2stroke kid growing up ,and just dirt bikes.
But I've seen it both ways .
Sometimes on 4 stroke you can plug it off and get better performance.
Or it will ideal crappy and die without the vacuum,or it will run like a champ without it.
You never know till you mess with it while it's running.
Post by: Rob on January 16, 2024, 11:48:26 AM
Sounds like a phase 2 project.
-Get some time on it as is
-Find a hose to make the connection
-Connect it and see if it runs better or worse.
Post by: Rob on January 21, 2024, 04:07:24 PM
I pulled the tank and replaced the Fuel Meter Sending Unit. The light no longer blinks empty however the fuel level still shows E even though the tank is full. I seem to recall it took a while for the fuel level to show full after refueling so this will be something I look at in more detail in the spring.
I also figured out the issue where the driving lights were blowing the fuse. It occurred to me that the driving light on the left was a little loose at the mount. I pulled the light off the mount and found a wire where the sheath was worn thru. It had been rubbing on a knife edge piece of metal when the light had loosened :twocents:from the mount. I patched and heat shrunk the wire, beveled the sharp edge and reassembled. Lights work now!
Going to see if I can find a Yamaha dealer in Sandpoint next week to have the tires replaced and the brakes looked over.
Post by: HntnFsh on January 21, 2024, 05:29:33 PM
I renewed my Drivers license yesterday. Dropped my MC endorsement that Ive had since I was 16. Almost 50 years. Took my test on a 250 Enduro and qualified for anything on the road at the time. Dont think Ive been on a bike in over 40 years. Was still a tough decision to drop it. Got my CDL a few years later . Didnt have to take a driving test and was legal to drive any truck on the road with it. There were no special endorsements. Dropped it several years later when I worked for the railroad. Didnt see myself driving any type of commercial vehicle in the rest of my liofetime. 17 years later changed careers and had to get my CDL. Had to take the driving test and qualify for tanker etc. Now its even more convoluted than that. Hope I dont decide to get a MC endorsement again!
Post by: Rob on January 22, 2024, 06:16:35 AM
Curious why you would let the endorsement lapse? I can't recall if they charge more to keep the endorsement on the license or not...
Post by: luvmystang67 on January 22, 2024, 09:49:29 AM
Honestly, setting brakes is not difficult either. You should certainly do your car brakes, spending a ton for mechanics is kinda dumb. The only hard part is getting corroded parts to move.
Good tires are important though, so its probably good to have those replaced/looked at.
I'm enjoying your updates and success. Thanks for sharing and for jumping into something unknown.
Post by: Rob on January 22, 2024, 10:31:25 AM
Helps to get ideas on this board as well.
Post by: Rob on January 23, 2024, 04:12:26 PM
Should have it back in a week.
Post by: Rob on February 01, 2024, 11:10:17 AM
Not counting tires, brake check and associated labor for that work, I am out a bit over $300 in parts and fluids - half of that was the battery.
Got the title transferred over to ID from WA yesterday and a 2 year license tab for 100 bucks total - should be 30ish per year going forward. Adding it onto insurance today and I hope to go for a short ride between now and Sunday as all the snow has melted off my driveway (of course new tires and sand on the paved roads will make that a little bit exciting).
I cannot thank folks enough for the advice and motivation on this project!
Post by: HntnFsh on February 01, 2024, 12:39:27 PM
Post by: Rob on February 01, 2024, 01:29:04 PM
Interestingly enough, I tried to insure it thru USAA (who it was insured with before) but they don't insure MC's in Idaho. They referred me to Progressive. 106 per year liability, 154 for full coverage.
Wondering if that is because Idaho does not have a helmet law.
Post by: luvmystang67 on February 01, 2024, 03:03:21 PM
Post by: Rob on February 02, 2024, 06:08:57 AM
I was able to get it out on 95 for a short 10 min ride yesterday around Lake Cocolalla. The back road was downright treacherous with all the sand in the road, but Hwy 95 was clear so I was able to open it up. Good to be riding again! Even better was that most of my 15 year old MC protective gear still fits! (kinda)
Post by: SeaRun1 on February 02, 2024, 09:19:12 AM
SR1
Post by: Rob on February 02, 2024, 10:21:21 AM
Your gear may fit but you are going to want to purchase at the minimum a new helmet. Shoei or Arai.
SR1
It is typically UV that causes long term damage to a helmet, correct? Since this has spent 15 years in a closet and was only a couple years old before it went into the closet I would think it would still be OK for a year or so. But perhaps I am incorrect?
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 02, 2024, 11:02:08 AM
https://www.chromeburner.com/blog/how-long-does-a-motorcycle-helmet-last#:~:text=Although%20there%20is%20no%20%22best,it%20needs%20to%20be%20replaced.
Post by: CP on February 02, 2024, 12:23:29 PM
Hers your answer.
https://www.chromeburner.com/blog/how-long-does-a-motorcycle-helmet-last#:~:text=Although%20there%20is%20no%20%22best,it%20needs%20to%20be%20replaced.
Wow, who knew? My favorite helmet is older than many people on this forum.
But then, the author of that piece sells helmets.
Post by: Rob on February 02, 2024, 12:33:22 PM
Hers your answer.
https://www.chromeburner.com/blog/how-long-does-a-motorcycle-helmet-last#:~:text=Although%20there%20is%20no%20%22best,it%20needs%20to%20be%20replaced.
I read the article, and I agree that things like rain, sweat, and especially sun impact lifespan and 5-7 years is a typical lifespan one can expect.
But what I did not see is a situation where the helmet was purchased, worn for 2 years, then put away in a closet (So no UV, sweat, beating rain, etc) would have on that expected lifespan.
So if my helmet had a 5 year life, I used it for 2, then let it sit out of UV light for 15 years, would it be safe for another 3 years? Perhaps only 1-2 more years? Completely expired and has no use left?
Safe route would be to replace it and I may do that. But inquiring minds want to know.
Post by: luvmystang67 on February 05, 2024, 10:16:26 AM
A lot of people in a lot of states that allow it ride with no helmet at all. However old your helmet, its about 10,000x better than that option.
Post by: Rob on February 05, 2024, 03:19:34 PM