Winter Project: Getting my motorcycle operational again

[Rob]

Sounds like you have a great start on this.

If you pull the tank and the carb, the only other place there should be fuel is in the fuel line between them, which will probably all run out on the floor when you pull the carb.  If there is an in-line fuel filter, you might replace that while you're doing all of this, because fuel could sit in that.  Otherwise, you should be good to go and I personally see no reason to run sea foam.  I run sea foam in things that I'm too lazy to do what you're doing.  It helps clean out the carb, when you're not manually cleaning it out.  I see no reason (and would not) run sea foam in the first tank of fuel, given all the work you're doing.  I suspect you could leave the plugs, do the fuel tank, fuel drain, carb part kit replacement... maybe a new fuel filter and battery and it'd probably fire right up.  New oil and filter is a must, but that shouldn't impact whether or not it starts.

I suspect your piston is probably NOT frozen up and is likely just fine.  When you take the spark plugs out, there is no compression, and it should make the bike VERY easy to turn over.  To test this and avoid hurting anything you could put it in gear, and do essentially a compression start on it (get it moving with the clutch held in, and drop the clutch) and that should turn over the piston.  All you want to do is verify that your pistons aren't seized from sitting, which... they are probably NOT seized if its been in a garage.  If it had a kick starter, you'd just pull the plugs and lightly push the kicker over... because it likely doesn't have a kick starter, I'd just put it in gear, roll it, drop the clutch, and validate that the pistons are free to move.  If you hear the pistons pushing air in and out of the sparkplug holes, you're golden.

I'd say 95%+ of the time, when a bike was put away running, with fuel in it, a simple drain of the old gas from the tank, carb and fuel lines... and a carb cleanout (or kit with new components) is enough to get the bike to run just fine.  The oil change is a must, just because you should change it.  Spark plug change is probably not required, but you might as well.  A wire brush to the existing plugs when you have them out would probably suffice.

One of the things we usually do when buying something like this is jump-start the battery, spray starting fluid into the air intake, and turn it over.  If it fires at all when you do this, it'll run once the fuel system is cleaned out... and most things do fire when you do this... and usually pistons are not frozen unless something was left outside.

good luck, take a lot of photos as you disassemble, and you'll be just fine.  It looks scary, but I promise its manageable.

exceptionally helpful, thanks

[hunter399]

Sounds like you have a great start on this.

If you pull the tank and the carb, the only other place there should be fuel is in the fuel line between them, which will probably all run out on the floor when you pull the carb.  If there is an in-line fuel filter, you might replace that while you're doing all of this, because fuel could sit in that.  Otherwise, you should be good to go and I personally see no reason to run sea foam.  I run sea foam in things that I'm too lazy to do what you're doing.  It helps clean out the carb, when you're not manually cleaning it out.  I see no reason (and would not) run sea foam in the first tank of fuel, given all the work you're doing.  I suspect you could leave the plugs, do the fuel tank, fuel drain, carb part kit replacement... maybe a new fuel filter and battery and it'd probably fire right up.  New oil and filter is a must, but that shouldn't impact whether or not it starts.

I suspect your piston is probably NOT frozen up and is likely just fine.  When you take the spark plugs out, there is no compression, and it should make the bike VERY easy to turn over.  To test this and avoid hurting anything you could put it in gear, and do essentially a compression start on it (get it moving with the clutch held in, and drop the clutch) and that should turn over the piston.  All you want to do is verify that your pistons aren't seized from sitting, which... they are probably NOT seized if its been in a garage.  If it had a kick starter, you'd just pull the plugs and lightly push the kicker over... because it likely doesn't have a kick starter, I'd just put it in gear, roll it, drop the clutch, and validate that the pistons are free to move.  If you hear the pistons pushing air in and out of the sparkplug holes, you're golden.

I'd say 95%+ of the time, when a bike was put away running, with fuel in it, a simple drain of the old gas from the tank, carb and fuel lines... and a carb cleanout (or kit with new components) is enough to get the bike to run just fine.  The oil change is a must, just because you should change it.  Spark plug change is probably not required, but you might as well.  A wire brush to the existing plugs when you have them out would probably suffice.

One of the things we usually do when buying something like this is jump-start the battery, spray starting fluid into the air intake, and turn it over.  If it fires at all when you do this, it'll run once the fuel system is cleaned out... and most things do fire when you do this... and usually pistons are not frozen unless something was left outside.

good luck, take a lot of photos as you disassemble, and you'll be just fine.  It looks scary, but I promise its manageable.

exceptionally helpful, thanks

I thought so too,very good post.👍

[luvmystang67]

Also, I'm in CdA and happy to come up and give you a hand if you get in a real tight spot.  Part of the fun though is guessing and checking.  Once you get the fundamentals on a bike down, the other applications get easier quite quickly.

The only thing you can mess up here that would be a major problem are that you really don't want anything but gasoline in your fuel system (except maybe seafoam... but that is not something I'd start with).  Also, the biggest thing you can really do to mess up an engine is to have too much liquid in your combustion chamber.  A LITTLE bit of fogger or WD-40 through the spark plug hole is just fine if its actually needed (piston seized), but if you leave liquid in there AND you put the plugs back in, you risk bending your piston rod since liquid is non-compressible.  If you do end up putting something in there, you'd want to turn the engine over with the plugs OUT to clear any of the liquid out of there.  If you want to research hydro-locking, this is what you're trying to avoid.  Since its easy to forget, I wouldn't spray anything in that spark plug hole unless you have a seizure issue.  Additionally, if you do have a seizure issue, there's a good chance your engine isn't long for the world once you do get it going... we can talk more about that if it happens to you.

I think this stuff is a ton of fun.

[Encore 280]

I've just been scanning and I don't think I saw Sili Kroil mentioned anywhere. It's claim to fame is penetrating one millionth of an inch. Excellent stuff for breaking siezed stuff loose. Comes in the orange spray can.

[HntnFsh]

From what I'm reading you have only tried turning it over with the key. If that's the case I would make sure I had a good battery or jump start it. If that doesn't work check all connections and grounds. Guessing a sized piston at this point is getting ahead of the game. If it has a k8ck starter I would do as stated. Pull the plugs and kick it over easy. You'll know then if it is seized. I agree with the advice you were given. I highly doubt it's seized. I'm betting good fuel, filter etc and spark and you will at least get it started. I think its going to be an easier fix than you think.

[pd]

For my money I will bet a carb rebuild of some sort will become necessary.  The ethanol in the gasoline absorbs moisture from the atmosphere (hygroscopic is the specific term), which leads to water in the tank, which can lead to corrosion.  But also the ethanol can destroy plastic and rubber parts in the carburetor.

Rebuilding a carburetor is actually not very difficult on a motorcycle, so if it comes to that, don't be afraid of the task.

This is why we never leave gasoline engines (motorcycles, generators, chain saws, etc.) over the winter with ethanol fuel in the tank.

[Rob]

Also, I'm in CdA and happy to come up and give you a hand if you get in a real tight spot.  Part of the fun though is guessing and checking.  Once you get the fundamentals on a bike down, the other applications get easier quite quickly.

The only thing you can mess up here that would be a major problem are that you really don't want anything but gasoline in your fuel system (except maybe seafoam... but that is not something I'd start with).  Also, the biggest thing you can really do to mess up an engine is to have too much liquid in your combustion chamber.  A LITTLE bit of fogger or WD-40 through the spark plug hole is just fine if its actually needed (piston seized), but if you leave liquid in there AND you put the plugs back in, you risk bending your piston rod since liquid is non-compressible.  If you do end up putting something in there, you'd want to turn the engine over with the plugs OUT to clear any of the liquid out of there.  If you want to research hydro-locking, this is what you're trying to avoid.  Since its easy to forget, I wouldn't spray anything in that spark plug hole unless you have a seizure issue.  Additionally, if you do have a seizure issue, there's a good chance your engine isn't long for the world once you do get it going... we can talk more about that if it happens to you.

I think this stuff is a ton of fun.

Very kind offer!  I am in Cocolalla so about 45 min north of I-90.  Will let you know if I get in that far over my head.

I should know a lot more about what is going on in about 2 weeks after all the parts I ordered arrive and I am able to get a few hours poking at with a stick.

It has been garaged 100% of the time since I parked it so that is good news.  Sounds like some Sili Kroil is good to have on the shelf regardless of this project.

[Angry Perch]

I'm not sure where the stuck piston/ rings stuff is coming from. If it didn't click when you tried to start it, it wasn't trying. Most of us have been burned (embarrassed  ) by neutral safety switches, brake/ clutch safety switches, (boat lanyards ), etc. so take all of that into account. Sounds like a fun project. 

[Chris57]

Regardless if the rings/pistons are stuck or not, some type of lubricant in the cylinders before attempting to turn it over would be a good thing.
Good point on checking all the safety devices also, many have been bitten and embarrassed by them, myself included.

[TommyH]

I'm not sure where the stuck piston/ rings stuff is coming from. If it didn't click when you tried to start it, it wasn't trying. Most of us have been burned (embarrassed  ) by neutral safety switches, brake/ clutch safety switches, (boat lanyards ), etc. so take all of that into account. Sounds like a fun project.

It’s coming from common sense, and  the guy that built mine, with 7 built Harley's in his shop, that advises to bump (yearly) them over so the rings don’t stick/adhere/form any thing that can turn into something down the road. Having part of its life on the wet side.. it’s possible. that’s why I suggested making sure it was not the problem. Pull the clutch in roll ahead, open clutch.. either stuck rings  or not.. starter or electrical if not stuck.

[hunter399]

I'm not sure where the stuck piston/ rings stuff is coming from. If it didn't click when you tried to start it, it wasn't trying. Most of us have been burned (embarrassed  ) by neutral safety switches, brake/ clutch safety switches, (boat lanyards ), etc. so take all of that into account. Sounds like a fun project.

It’s coming from common sense, and  the guy that built mine, with 7 built Harley's in his shop, that advises to bump (yearly) them over so the rings don’t stick/adhere/form any thing that can turn into something down the road. Having part of its life on the wet side.. it’s possible. that’s why I suggested making sure it was not the problem. Pull the clutch in roll ahead, open clutch.. either stuck rings  or not.. starter or electrical if not stuck.

Should roll over easy without sparkplug.

[Caseknife]

If nothing happened at all, no sound, no click, nothing, when you tried to start it previously, you have an electrical issue.  May be as simple as a safety switch, or loose connection somewhere.  If the starter solenoid clicked, check that 12 volts is getting to the starter terminal, if it is getting power when trying to start, tap on the starter at the same time and that will sometimes jar the starter enough for it to operate.  If the starter solenoid clicks and the starter makes noise like it is trying to turn over the engine, but is not, then maybe you have a stuck piston.  Be surprised if that is the case.

[Rob]

Got the oil change done today.  Also spent so.e time degreasi g the grime that is all over the bike.  Parts for the carb and new plugs arive next week.

I will know more about the failure to start problem once I reassemble everything.  It very well could be a stupid user issue...

Two queations.

1.  I plan to put some marvel mystery oil ontop of the cylinders and let that sit for a few days while I work on the carb next weekwnd.  How much should I put in each cylinder?   0.75 to 1.0 Oz?

2.  There is stubborn grime on the chrome.  Can anyone recomend a good chrome cleaner?

[Encore 280]

Super Clean in the purple spray bottle or brake cleaner should work on the grime. Mystery oil should come out the spark holes when you get it to roll over, go easy at first.

[hunter399]

Got the oil change done today.  Also spent so.e time degreasi g the grime that is all over the bike.  Parts for the carb and new plugs arive next week.

I will know more about the failure to start problem once I reassemble everything.  It very well could be a stupid user issue...

Two queations.

1.  I plan to put some marvel mystery oil ontop of the cylinders and let that sit for a few days while I work on the carb next weekwnd.  How much should I put in each cylinder?   0.75 to 1.0 Oz?

2.  There is stubborn grime on the chrome.  Can anyone recomend a good chrome cleaner?

As little a possible in the cylinder. It may seep past the rings and into your brand new oil change. When it's left there extend time.
I wouldn't put anything in there,till you figure out if it's stuck.

Does the bike have a kick start.
If so you should be able to push the kick start with your hand ,with spark plugs removed.

If it doesn't have kick start. Then do as TommyH said.
Pull clutch in ,pop in gear,roll forward without spark plug.
Piston should move up and down pretty easy.

If your just worried about lubrication on your rings ,or something like that before starting. Like a dry start,since it's been parked a while. Amount of oil in there would be very small.
Like half a shot glass or less.
Most times when I try to start something that hasn't ran in a while.
You just use chainsaw gas.
Put a half shot glass of some chainsaw gas in the spark plug hole.
Put spark plug in that has spark.
And start it. No need to lubricant piston and rings from that point on.

There is basically no need to put anything in there,if your piston is not stuck.