Post by: trophyhunt on February 07, 2024, 06:38:00 AM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 07, 2024, 06:46:31 AM
I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
How many are there with OIL points? Gonna take a big barrel. :dunno: :rolleyes:
Post by: trophyhunt on February 07, 2024, 09:35:22 AM
yeah, OIL’s would prob not increase your odds much for a while, but I have to think overall odds for the highest point holders in all catagories could get better. It’s somethingI like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
How many are there with OIL points? Gonna take a big barrel. :dunno: :rolleyes:
Post by: GOcougsHunter on February 07, 2024, 03:24:22 PM
I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Actually not a bad idea. Cubing points after 15 or 20 for non OIL makes sense. I have 20+ in most quality and oil. Would be nice to maybe draw a quality in my dream spot once before I die.
Post by: Bullkllr on February 07, 2024, 04:20:33 PM
I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Actually not a bad idea. Cubing points after 15 or 20 for non OIL makes sense. I have 20+ in most quality and oil. Would be nice to maybe draw a quality in my dream spot once before I die.
I wonder what that would do to the odds (not that it would likely matter)? There are a whole lotta people with alotta points.
Post by: dreamingbig on February 09, 2024, 10:20:16 PM
This is dumb. They are MOIL tags not OIL. You “might” draw once in your lifetime. We are not entitled to a tag.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Actually not a bad idea. Cubing points after 15 or 20 for non OIL makes sense. I have 20+ in most quality and oil. Would be nice to maybe draw a quality in my dream spot once before I die.
Post by: idahohuntr on February 10, 2024, 07:34:01 AM
:yeah:This is dumb. They are MOIL tags not OIL. You “might” draw once in your lifetime. We are not entitled to a tag.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Actually not a bad idea. Cubing points after 15 or 20 for non OIL makes sense. I have 20+ in most quality and oil. Would be nice to maybe draw a quality in my dream spot once before I die.
Post by: GOcougsHunter on February 12, 2024, 07:57:52 AM
:yeah:This is dumb. They are MOIL tags not OIL. You “might” draw once in your lifetime. We are not entitled to a tag.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:Actually not a bad idea. Cubing points after 15 or 20 for non OIL makes sense. I have 20+ in most quality and oil. Would be nice to maybe draw a quality in my dream spot once before I die.
Quality should not be OIL.
Post by: Rainier10 on February 12, 2024, 08:15:17 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on February 12, 2024, 08:55:40 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on February 12, 2024, 11:56:09 AM
Post by: Gentrys on February 12, 2024, 12:49:37 PM
However, if I ever draw and have to start back at 0 the following year, I doubt I'll buy applications for that type of hunt again.
Even after 5 years of applying, you'd only have your name in the hat 25 times and would be up against hundreds of other hunters with 20+ points equalling 400+ entries each in the draw.
No thanks!
Post by: hughjorgan on February 12, 2024, 02:17:13 PM
Since I have 18+ points in most categories, I like that they square points.
However, if I ever draw and have to start back at 0 the following year, I doubt I'll buy applications for that type of hunt again.
Even after 5 years of applying, you'd only have your name in the hat 25 times and would be up against hundreds of other hunters with 20+ points equalling 400+ entries each in the draw.
No thanks!
Points are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
Post by: Humptulips on February 12, 2024, 02:24:42 PM
Post by: Bob33 on February 12, 2024, 02:35:33 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on February 12, 2024, 02:40:58 PM
Since I have 18+ points in most categories, I like that they square points.
However, if I ever draw and have to start back at 0 the following year, I doubt I'll buy applications for that type of hunt again.
Even after 5 years of applying, you'd only have your name in the hat 25 times and would be up against hundreds of other hunters with 20+ points equalling 400+ entries each in the draw.
No thanks!
Points are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
:yeah: Who cares about points, its all random. Just apply for the hunt you want, no matter the draw odds and treat it as nothing more than a lottery.
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2024, 03:14:45 PM
Quote
Points are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
That's not correct. More points does equal "more names in the hat."
I still agree that point systems are stupid and simply a way for the state to make more money.
But the fact is more points does give you better odds of drawing.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 12, 2024, 05:38:12 PM
QuotePoints are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
That's not correct. More points does equal "more names in the hat."
I still agree that point systems are stupid and simply a way for the state to make more money.
But the fact is more points does give you better odds of drawing.
You have better odds of drawing a low number, yes but you only have one number in the hat.
Post by: bobcat on February 12, 2024, 05:58:59 PM
QuotePoints are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
That's not correct. More points does equal "more names in the hat."
I still agree that point systems are stupid and simply a way for the state to make more money.
But the fact is more points does give you better odds of drawing.
You have better odds of drawing a low number, yes but you only have one number in the hat.
The low number is the only one that matters. If you got 100 numbers you have 100 times the chance of drawing as someone with only 1 number.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 12, 2024, 06:03:46 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 12, 2024, 06:11:10 PM
QuotePoints are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
That's not correct. More points does equal "more names in the hat."
I still agree that point systems are stupid and simply a way for the state to make more money.
But the fact is more points does give you better odds of drawing.
You have better odds of drawing a low number, yes but you only have one number in the hat.
The low number is the only one that matters. If you got 100 numbers you have 100 times the chance of drawing as someone with only 1 number.
The other 99 are not in the draw just your lowest number of the 100.
Post by: Timber on February 12, 2024, 06:15:23 PM
QuotePoints are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
That's not correct. More points does equal "more names in the hat."
I still agree that point systems are stupid and simply a way for the state to make more money.
But the fact is more points does give you better odds of drawing.
You have better odds of drawing a low number, yes but you only have one number in the hat.
Having better odds of drawing a low number is all that matters. Once everyone gets their number the draw is over. Nothing goes into a "hat" to be drawn again.
Post by: vandeman17 on February 13, 2024, 09:35:16 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 13, 2024, 09:43:45 AM
What I'd like to see in WA is for OIL and Quality tags go to a modified draw where 75% of the tags for a given hunt go to those who have higher points, i.e. 15 or greater, and 25% of the tags be earmarked for those that have less than 15 points or random. Those who have been applying for a long time should have hopefully slightly higher odds and those who are lower in the point range will still have a chance.
Post by: dagon on March 21, 2024, 04:59:31 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 21, 2024, 06:42:06 AM
I've been trying to figure the actual odds of drawing a lower number based on the number of try's (points) I thought I was pretty good at math and I'm only using two people. First one with 1 point. Second with 10 points (100 trys). I don't know if this is possible with a random number generator. This is not nearly as complicated as any of the actual Washington state draws. Are there any math wizards out there?Ridgerunner is the rain man. I don't get how some of you guys think cubing wouldn't increase odds? I'm NOT a points fan the way wdfw currently has it set up, I'd like to see wdfw quit giving points and go to a system like Idaho. But it won't, so Ridgerunners idea is more realistic, more like Wyomings system. Brian, pick a popular unit for elk, like the colockum late rife, 11 tags average 3650 applications. How much better would the odds be for a guy with 19 points squared (361 chances to get a low number) to a guy with 20 points cubed (8,000 chances to get a low number)? Cubing isn't the best answer to our points mess, but I believe it gives the higher points guys a better chance. And no, I'm not saying I deserve a tag.... but after 29 years without poacher points, I do think odds should be much better for higher point holders to draw. And yes, I am doing this torture to myself by looking for premium tags, but not as premium as rifle rut hunts with 1 or 2 tags, one of the tags I've been after for many years has less than 1,000 applicants.
Post by: dagon on March 21, 2024, 07:40:11 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 21, 2024, 08:06:10 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 21, 2024, 08:19:57 AM
The reality of the situation is that the WA points system works as intended when there are enough permits offered to allow the system to work as intended. If one were to look back at the distribution of tags under Palouse buck when there were 600 tags you would see it how it was intended to work.
The problem is so many hunts have so few permits and so many people applying with all the random numbers that you won’t get a distribution of tags that reflect those who have been putting in longer pulling more tags. So it does become more an issue of luck and getting a low number. That’s why a guy drew the butte with 3 points while thousands of applicants with 20plus didn’t draw.
In the end you really can’t count on your points to do much for you luck is a bigger factor imo.
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Post by: trophyhunt on March 21, 2024, 08:37:18 AM
That’s some heavy math you want done Jerry.surely you have nothing to do for the next 3 hours to figure out those odds!!!! 😁
The reality of the situation is that the WA points system works as intended when there are enough permits offered to allow the system to work as intended. If one were to look back at the distribution of tags under Palouse buck when there were 600 tags you would see it how it was intended to work.
The problem is so many hunts have so few permits and so many people applying with all the random numbers that you won’t get a distribution of tags that reflect those who have been putting in longer pulling more tags. So it does become more an issue of luck and getting a low number. That’s why a guy drew the butte with 3 points while thousands of applicants with 20plus didn’t draw.
In the end you really can’t count on your points to do much for you luck is a bigger factor imo.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: HikerHunter on March 21, 2024, 08:56:32 AM
In reality, most everyone in our system is person #2, in fact worse than person #2 with much less than 1% odds of drawing.
Post by: HikerHunter on March 21, 2024, 09:10:17 AM
If you had 15 points as currently squared, your odds would be 225/(300,000+225)=0.075% odds of drawing (assuming a single tag).
If you had 15 points that were cubed, then the numbers in the draw would increase significantly, say 500 applicants have 15 points that are also now cubed. So now there are 1,937,500 numbers in the draw. You now have 3375 numbers in the draw so 3375/(1,937,500+3375)=0.17% odds of drawing a single tag
In my scenario, your odds doubled, but that's still not great odds.
Post by: kentrek on March 21, 2024, 09:20:06 AM
Everyone always points to Idaho as the answer but don't we already have that in the low tag categories?
Post by: HikerHunter on March 21, 2024, 09:28:55 AM
Can any of the math wizards tell me any statistical differences between what we have now and a complete random ? Would the bell curve just have a slightly different shape ? Or would the mode just be shifted slightly along the x axis ?
Everyone always points to Idaho as the answer but don't we already have that in the low tag categories?
Are you asking what are the odds if everyone has just one number in the drawing?
Post by: steeleywhopper on March 21, 2024, 09:30:33 AM
Post by: kentrek on March 21, 2024, 09:43:28 AM
Can any of the math wizards tell me any statistical differences between what we have now and a complete random ? Would the bell curve just have a slightly different shape ? Or would the mode just be shifted slightly along the x axis ?
Everyone always points to Idaho as the answer but don't we already have that in the low tag categories?
Are you asking what are the odds if everyone has just one number in the drawing?
Y axis is number of people drawn, x axis is number years in the system
There is a bell curve of data, each system has a slightly different bell curve...is our bell curve that much different then idaho for these premier tags
Post by: trophyhunt on March 21, 2024, 10:06:50 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on March 21, 2024, 10:07:31 AM
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Post by: HikerHunter on March 21, 2024, 10:20:50 AM
Limit the choice to one unit. Instantly everyone’s draw odds are better. If there are leftovers they can have a second draw or FCFS sale.
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This brings up a good point, my draw odds are over-simplified by saying you have to have the lowest number which isn't always the case. I believe the draw is done by category, so if numbers below you have different hunts selected, then you could still get drawn without the lowest number. That sounds like way to many assumptions to add into the odds percentage for me to do...
Post by: kentrek on March 21, 2024, 10:26:02 AM
With no points in the equation, like Idaho, aren’t your odds simple, the number of tags available by the number of applicants each year?
Yup its easier to grasp that's for sure but 1% odds are 1% odds regardless how much math it takes to get there...the outcome is the same
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 21, 2024, 10:27:52 AM
There was a kid who was majoring in Math at WSU. Heard his roommate complaining about the draw odds in WA. Decided to do a project on it. He found out the algorithm that WA uses and did some tests. Proved that the algorithm "likes" higher sequenced numbers. So if you have a low sequenced number, you are less likely to get selected in the "random" draw. That's why some people appear "lucky" and some people don't...
Post by: X-Force on March 21, 2024, 10:34:07 AM
Add this to the mix: (I am spreading a rumor here, but I've heard this more than once)
There was a kid who was majoring in Math at WSU. Heard his roommate complaining about the draw odds in WA. Decided to do a project on it. He found out the algorithm that WA uses and did some tests. Proved that the algorithm "likes" higher sequenced numbers. So if you have a low sequenced number, you are less likely to get selected in the "random" draw. That's why some people appear "lucky" and some people don't...
That wouldn’t surprise me. It would also be a start to a class action lawsuit.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on March 21, 2024, 11:21:37 AM
I don't care if they cube points for high points holder in non OIL tags. Improvements will be so miniscule it will likely not matter.
True change will only occur one of two ways, 1) application category limits, ( short term fix that is badly needed IMO) with increased application cost to maintain revenue stream they want. 2) Actual game management that works diligently toward increasing herd size and robustness in tandem with increased hunting access and increased permit levels and bringing higher odds for permits among all categories that is the only long term solution
Post by: trophyhunt on March 21, 2024, 12:00:30 PM
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 21, 2024, 12:12:10 PM
They should really make you pay for the tag to enter the drawings for OIL's , that would drop many apps, but again, they won't do anything that lowers their income.
Agree. It used to be that way in the early 90's here in WA. Was a bit of a stretch to come up with the cash to cover the tag fee as a starving college student. We have to prepay deer and elk to play the special permit game... why not oil? Except that I would be in $996 to apply for the big three as a resident. That would be a nice interest free loan to the Dept.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 21, 2024, 12:14:39 PM
Maybe the interest would help with the less money they'd collect from fewer application fee's?? Another idea that has been brought up a few times is making people choose between OIL's or deer, elk. BOOM!They should really make you pay for the tag to enter the drawings for OIL's , that would drop many apps, but again, they won't do anything that lowers their income.
Agree. It used to be that way in the early 90's here in WA. Was a bit of a stretch to come up with the cash to cover the tag fee as a starving college student. We have to prepay deer and elk to play the special permit game... why not oil? Except that I would be in $996 to apply for the big three as a resident. That would be a nice interest free loan to the Dept.
Post by: dagon on March 21, 2024, 12:15:17 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 21, 2024, 12:40:44 PM
Wouldn't stop starving college students. They have no problem going into credit card debt. :twocents: It's responsible adults that have trouble putting anything on a card that we can't pay off on the first of next month. :chuckle:They should really make you pay for the tag to enter the drawings for OIL's , that would drop many apps, but again, they won't do anything that lowers their income.
Agree. It used to be that way in the early 90's here in WA. Was a bit of a stretch to come up with the cash to cover the tag fee as a starving college student. We have to prepay deer and elk to play the special permit game... why not oil? Except that I would be in $996 to apply for the big three as a resident. That would be a nice interest free loan to the Dept.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 21, 2024, 12:48:07 PM
They should really make you pay for the tag to enter the drawings for OIL's , that would drop many apps, but again, they won't do anything that lowers their income.you should have to front the money and you should only be allowed to apply for a single oil species as well.
Post by: chukardogs on March 21, 2024, 02:02:58 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 21, 2024, 02:08:33 PM
Wow, I must have fallen asleep somewhere along the way. I thought that there were x amount of tags available and every person had however many points. Each point was given a number and then they were all tossed into a really big hat and someone started drawing. When they had drawn the number of available tags, they were done. What determines whether you have a low number or high number? I'm completely confused?every "name in the hat" gets assigned a random number. From there they start at the top of the list and look at that numbers hunt choices. Every hunt choice is considered before moving on to the next number down the list. Rinse and repeat until all permits are gone.
Post by: carlyoungs on March 21, 2024, 04:30:57 PM
Wow, I must have fallen asleep somewhere along the way. I thought that there were x amount of tags available and every person had however many points. Each point was given a number and then they were all tossed into a really big hat and someone started drawing. When they had drawn the number of available tags, they were done. What determines whether you have a low number or high number? I'm completely confused?every "name in the hat" gets assigned a random number. From there they start at the top of the list and look at that numbers hunt choices. Every hunt choice is considered before moving on to the next number down the list. Rinse and repeat until all permits are gone.
Don't they also put all weapon groups together when they draw?
Like when they do quality elk, all weapon groups get assigned a number and they go down the list on what is available. So the archery, muzzleloader and rifle hunters are mixed in the quality category and the lowest number starts first and goes from there?
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 22, 2024, 05:43:14 AM
Since I have 18+ points in most categories, I like that they square points.
However, if I ever draw and have to start back at 0 the following year, I doubt I'll buy applications for that type of hunt again.
Even after 5 years of applying, you'd only have your name in the hat 25 times and would be up against hundreds of other hunters with 20+ points equalling 400+ entries each in the draw.
No thanks!
Points are simply nothing more than a revenue generator; whether you have 1 point or 10 you’re only getting one name in the hat. They square you points and give you a hundred different numbers they take that lowest number from that and that is your chance to draw. If the number is lower than everyone else’s then you draw that hunt. Numbers are based off 0-infinity and are completely random.
Hear this alot. BUT, the more points you have, the more chances you have at getting a lower number put into the hat.....mathematically speaking, points do help.
With that being said, yea odds will always suck, and continue to worsen....Too many people, and too few critters
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 22, 2024, 08:31:37 AM
Don't they also put all weapon groups together when they draw?
Like when they do quality elk, all weapon groups get assigned a number and they go down the list on what is available. So the archery, muzzleloader and rifle hunters are mixed in the quality category and the lowest number starts first and goes from there?
I don't think so because some of the hunt options are open to multiple weapon categories. Pretty sure they just assign a number to everyone (regardless of east/west, or weapon choice), and then go down the list and see if a tag is still available for what you applied for when your number comes up.
Post by: carlyoungs on March 22, 2024, 09:27:37 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on March 22, 2024, 10:16:34 AM
Don't they also put all weapon groups together when they draw?
Like when they do quality elk, all weapon groups get assigned a number and they go down the list on what is available. So the archery, muzzleloader and rifle hunters are mixed in the quality category and the lowest number starts first and goes from there?
I don't think so because some of the hunt options are open to multiple weapon categories. Pretty sure they just assign a number to everyone (regardless of east/west, or weapon choice), and then go down the list and see if a tag is still available for what you applied for when your number comes up.
It doesn't matter as you would only be competing against 'like' weapon holders for permits generally anyway.
Post by: chukardogs on March 22, 2024, 10:35:25 AM
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 22, 2024, 10:40:51 AM
Post by: dagon on March 22, 2024, 11:02:30 AM
And an infinite number of chances to draw a higher number. Better odds to win or lose.It's actually not an infinite number. After the points are squared that is the high number not infinity. Then they pull each person lowest number from that list.
Post by: Rainier10 on March 22, 2024, 11:42:20 AM
In the most basic of terms, if two individuals are vying for the same tag (weapon, season, etc..etc.) and one individual has ten points and the other has one point. Are some on here saying, the hunter with ten points has the same odds of drawing that tag as the individual that has one point? If so, what's the point?No. One has a 0.00546% chance and the other has a 0.00454% chance so 0.00096% better chance. Not much of a difference but it’s a difference. :chuckle:
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 22, 2024, 11:44:09 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 22, 2024, 12:30:35 PM
There are always tales of “I know someone who drew with one point ”. However, when you looked at the numbers there were 10,000 applicants with one point and two of them drew, while there were five applicants with maximum points who didn't get selected. It is also usually the case that applicants in the highest point levels apply for the hardest to draw permits, whereas applicants with one or two points may apply for any permit which can skew draw odds.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on March 22, 2024, 12:44:36 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 22, 2024, 02:39:33 PM
“Relax said the nightman, we are programmed to receive…”
Post by: trophyhunt on March 22, 2024, 04:32:24 PM
Post by: chukardogs on March 22, 2024, 04:33:52 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 25, 2024, 09:30:35 AM
Don't they also put all weapon groups together when they draw?
Like when they do quality elk, all weapon groups get assigned a number and they go down the list on what is available. So the archery, muzzleloader and rifle hunters are mixed in the quality category and the lowest number starts first and goes from there?
I don't think so because some of the hunt options are open to multiple weapon categories. Pretty sure they just assign a number to everyone (regardless of east/west, or weapon choice), and then go down the list and see if a tag is still available for what you applied for when your number comes up.
It doesn't matter as you would only be competing against 'like' weapon holders for permits generally anyway.
For the most part that's true, but there are some tags that are open to multiple weapon choices.
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 25, 2024, 09:34:20 AM
In the most basic of terms, if two individuals are vying for the same tag (weapon, season, etc..etc.) and one individual has ten points and the other has one point. Are some on here saying, the hunter with ten points has the same odds of drawing that tag as the individual that has one point? If so, what's the point?No. One has a 0.00546% chance and the other has a 0.00454% chance so 0.00096% better chance. Not much of a difference but it’s a difference. :chuckle:
In this example, with 100 chances versus 1 chance, shouldn't the decimal just move two spots to the left?
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 25, 2024, 11:17:37 AM
I have so many points for quality deer, elk, sheep, moose and goat, you guys with one or two should just save your money. Aren't there people out there with like 25 points or more for some of the OIL tags? We as older hunters need to start disenfranchising young hunters and explain how much of a waste it is to even put in to the draw. For an example, the only tag I've drawn in twenty five years of trying, was the Teanaway Archery Bull Elk and I had to give it back because of the fires that year. If nothing else, that should make it clear to the younger guys how much of a waste it is to even try. Good luck to you all!
There have been a bunch OIL and basically OIL draws with single and low single digit points. Somebody is going to win, it's just another dart to throw.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 25, 2024, 11:22:54 AM
:yeah: But it’s an exciting time of year!! Until the results come out…. At least I get to see my wife draw every year, that’s always fun! :chuckle:
You've drawn moose tags though which means youve beaten the odds more than anybody, regardless of points, could hope to.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 25, 2024, 04:06:29 PM
I personally drew a bull moose tag, definitely beat the odds once, had lots of points. I have no clue why my wife’s draws so much, maybe it’s an algorithm?? She’s damn lucky! And I’m an idiot for not putting in with her!:yeah: But it’s an exciting time of year!! Until the results come out…. At least I get to see my wife draw every year, that’s always fun! :chuckle:
You've drawn moose tags though which means youve beaten the odds more than anybody, regardless of points, could hope to.
Post by: Whitpirate on March 25, 2024, 04:09:30 PM
I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quit trying to reward max points.... and screw the new kids.... If you love being at the front of the line head to those states where they guarantee it.... I've got max moose and I'm asking the state every year to get rid of cow hunts....
Quit being selfish Jerry! We'll all die with points in the barrel.
LOL
Post by: Whitpirate on March 25, 2024, 04:14:46 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 25, 2024, 04:37:02 PM
I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quit trying to reward max points.... and screw the new kids.... If you love being at the front of the line head to those states where they guarantee it.... I've got max moose and I'm asking the state every year to get rid of cow hunts....
Quit being selfish Jerry! We'll all die with points in the barrel.
LOL
I agree. And I've got 27 moose points. But if they make my odds better, other people's odds get worse. The best thing to do, especially with OIL species, is eliminate points. And also non residents shouldn't be able to apply.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 25, 2024, 04:47:12 PM
And if you really want better odds. Throw a grand at the raffles.shhhh
Post by: trophyhunt on March 25, 2024, 05:00:46 PM
You feel bad about having better odds than others?? You must be a saint!! Is it taboo to think you should draw before some guy who put in for his first year after waiting almost 3 decades? I guess I’m an azz then, cause I think the higher point holders should draw first most the time. Notice I didn’t use the word deserve, and yes, I’ll feel the same if I ever zero out.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quit trying to reward max points.... and screw the new kids.... If you love being at the front of the line head to those states where they guarantee it.... I've got max moose and I'm asking the state every year to get rid of cow hunts....
Quit being selfish Jerry! We'll all die with points in the barrel.
LOL
I agree. And I've got 27 moose points. But if they make my odds better, other people's odds get worse. The best thing to do, especially with OIL species, is eliminate points. And also non residents shouldn't be able to apply.
Post by: bobcat on March 25, 2024, 05:50:46 PM
I feel the advantage I have with squaring the points is enough.
Post by: Ghost Hunter on March 25, 2024, 05:57:03 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 25, 2024, 05:57:09 PM
You feel bad about having better odds than others?? You must be a saint!! Is it taboo to think you should draw before some guy who put in for his first year after waiting almost 3 decades? I guess I’m an azz then, cause I think the higher point holders should draw first most the time. Notice I didn’t use the word deserve, and yes, I’ll feel the same if I ever zero out.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quit trying to reward max points.... and screw the new kids.... If you love being at the front of the line head to those states where they guarantee it.... I've got max moose and I'm asking the state every year to get rid of cow hunts....
Quit being selfish Jerry! We'll all die with points in the barrel.
LOL
I agree. And I've got 27 moose points. But if they make my odds better, other people's odds get worse. The best thing to do, especially with OIL species, is eliminate points. And also non residents shouldn't be able to apply.
How many freezers full of moose meat do you have?
:chuckle:
Post by: Whitpirate on March 25, 2024, 06:00:42 PM
Nah I’m no saint but I do know unless we recruit another generation to love this like we do hunting will die with us. The bigger picture is beyond one last hunt for me… I guess I can hope for a terminal tag at the end.You feel bad about having better odds than others?? You must be a saint!! Is it taboo to think you should draw before some guy who put in for his first year after waiting almost 3 decades? I guess I’m an azz then, cause I think the higher point holders should draw first most the time. Notice I didn’t use the word deserve, and yes, I’ll feel the same if I ever zero out.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quit trying to reward max points.... and screw the new kids.... If you love being at the front of the line head to those states where they guarantee it.... I've got max moose and I'm asking the state every year to get rid of cow hunts....
Quit being selfish Jerry! We'll all die with points in the barrel.
LOL
I agree. And I've got 27 moose points. But if they make my odds better, other people's odds get worse. The best thing to do, especially with OIL species, is eliminate points. And also non residents shouldn't be able to apply.
My freezers are empty of moose… that was years ago… but I also traveled to hunt since I can’t seem to draw here. Waiting on Washington will kill us all.
Post by: Rainier10 on March 25, 2024, 06:02:21 PM
I drew a quality bull tag and ended up up eating the tag. Played the raffle game and won. I’ve also drawn a quality deer tag and consider myself blessed to have drawn them.
If I drew a bull tag, a moose tag, my wife drew a moose tag and a quality bull tag and my son in law drew a moose tag I would be worried about being struck by lightning not about drawing another tag. :chuckle:
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 25, 2024, 06:03:59 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on March 25, 2024, 06:12:53 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 25, 2024, 06:22:22 PM
:yeah:My wife also drew a rifle rut tag for elk, the first year they gave out a muzzy tag for white river she drew, drew forks elk when it was around, and drew the late buck tag for the blues last year. 😁. Drives me nuts how lucky she is!
I drew a quality bull tag and ended up up eating the tag. Played the raffle game and won. I’ve also drawn a quality deer tag and consider myself blessed to have drawn them.
If I drew a bull tag, a moose tag, my wife drew a moose tag and a quality bull tag and my son in law drew a moose tag I would be worried about being struck by lightning not about drawing another tag. :chuckle:
Post by: trophyhunt on March 25, 2024, 06:24:42 PM
next time we meet up, I’ll bring you some moose meat! I need to make room for what my wife draws next!! 🤣Nah I’m no saint but I do know unless we recruit another generation to love this like we do hunting will die with us. The bigger picture is beyond one last hunt for me… I guess I can hope for a terminal tag at the end.You feel bad about having better odds than others?? You must be a saint!! Is it taboo to think you should draw before some guy who put in for his first year after waiting almost 3 decades? I guess I’m an azz then, cause I think the higher point holders should draw first most the time. Notice I didn’t use the word deserve, and yes, I’ll feel the same if I ever zero out.I like the idea of cubing points at 25, you'd think that would help top point holders. That would give me 24,389 points for quality and bull elk, mud flow here I come... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Quit trying to reward max points.... and screw the new kids.... If you love being at the front of the line head to those states where they guarantee it.... I've got max moose and I'm asking the state every year to get rid of cow hunts....
Quit being selfish Jerry! We'll all die with points in the barrel.
LOL
I agree. And I've got 27 moose points. But if they make my odds better, other people's odds get worse. The best thing to do, especially with OIL species, is eliminate points. And also non residents shouldn't be able to apply.
My freezers are empty of moose… that was years ago… but I also traveled to hunt since I can’t seem to draw here. Waiting on Washington will kill us all.
Post by: Whitpirate on September 24, 2024, 12:10:43 PM