Post by: high_hunter on February 12, 2024, 09:03:20 AM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2024/12feb2024-agenda-special-wildlife-committee
https://tvw.org/video/washington-fish-and-wildlife-commission-wildlife-committee-2024021073/?eventID=2024021073
Here are proposals: https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/12524-wildlife-committee-bear-cougar-rule-making-options.pdf
WDFW's responses seemed fairly reasonable based on the position they are in: https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-01/12524-wdfw-response-cougar-and-bear-rule-making-options.pdf
So far they've avoided addressing these staff responses but Eric Gardner is doing what he can to provide objective background and push back so they are part of the discussion. He and Susewind seem to be our only remaining allies in this whole predator discussion. Smith and the other Anti Commissioners keep coming up with ideas from their own research or those outside of WA, not what has been recommended based on WDFW staff. :bash:
Post by: MeepDog on February 12, 2024, 09:10:02 AM
Post by: jrebel on February 12, 2024, 09:25:21 AM
Post by: high_hunter on February 12, 2024, 09:35:52 AM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 12, 2024, 09:44:33 AM
Post by: HillHound on February 12, 2024, 09:56:24 AM
Watching the commissioners talk is painful. It literally makes my blood boil. :bash: :bash::yeah:
>:(
Post by: elkrack on February 12, 2024, 09:57:30 AM
Post by: jrebel on February 12, 2024, 10:06:07 AM
You can send all the comments you want they don’t care! Their agenda is paramount.
:yeah: :yeah:
I send emails / comments on a regular basis to the commissioners and state representatives. I almost never get comment back. They don't give two craps about what we say.
2/3's of these commissioners are making decisions and they don't even understand the current rules and regulations. This is proof enough to me that they don't care. They have an agenda.
Post by: jrebel on February 12, 2024, 10:08:33 AM
Post by: swanderek on February 12, 2024, 10:43:19 AM
What changed
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 12, 2024, 10:55:14 AM
Post by: buckfvr on February 12, 2024, 11:15:09 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on February 12, 2024, 12:02:41 PM
Great game plan, just chip away a little opportunity at a time. Gotta love this commission. NOT!
Post by: Ghost Hunter on February 12, 2024, 12:37:15 PM
Post by: Cougartail on February 12, 2024, 12:52:42 PM
“There aren’t that many people hunting cougars after March so let’s just close it in March. It’s very little opportunity that is being lost.”
Great game plan, just chip away a little opportunity at a time. Gotta love this commission. NOT!
I hunt them in April.. I don't count because I don't vote for mentally ill leftists.
A few more years until Alaska is my home.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 12, 2024, 01:46:49 PM
You can send all the comments you want they don’t care! Their agenda is paramount.
:yeah: :yeah:
I send emails / comments on a regular basis to the commissioners and state representatives. I almost never get comment back. They don't give two craps about what we say.
2/3's of these commissioners are making decisions and they don't even understand the current rules and regulations. This is proof enough to me that they don't care. They have an agenda.
It gives us legal standing imo. Hopefully everyone called the rules committee for SJR 8208.
We are just one of many states being challenged by these anti hunters. Colorado is in a fight just like we are. New Mexico faced a similar battle not long ago. They have groups in places like Wyoming. If we all don’t stand and fight we won’t have any hunting any where.
Post by: Rainier10 on February 15, 2024, 11:13:17 AM
The meeting on the 12th was brutal to listen to.
“We need to make sure we preserve, oh I’m sorry I keep saying that, we need to make sure we conserve…”.
It is so obvious they aren’t conservationist, they struggle to even use the word, their entire agenda is to eliminate hunting of all wildlife which will have drastic impacts on the habitat. Human population increases and development have created the need for us to conserve and manage wildlife. You can’t restore things to the way they were without eliminating a huge portion of human population and development. That’s just not going to happen.
Post by: GWP on February 15, 2024, 11:29:46 AM
Someone asked "Have you ever eaten there? The food is crap."
When the meeting got over, he, and some of the other top people with him went down and ate there.
Crap hit the fan.
The quality had been going downhill for some time, so people started bringing food from home.
After the 'visit' it got amazingly good (again) and the place was packed.
If they mess with things enough here, people will give up and/or go to another State to hunt.
Yes, there is an agenda. It does not include hunting.
Post by: hunter399 on February 15, 2024, 11:47:18 AM
Is the stuff decided during the committee meeting on the 12th getting presented to the full commission for a vote this Friday the 16th? If not when?
The meeting on the 12th was brutal to listen to.
“We need to make sure we preserve, oh I’m sorry I keep saying that, we need to make sure we conserve…”.
It is so obvious they aren’t conservationist, they struggle to even use the word, their entire agenda is to eliminate hunting of all wildlife which will have drastic impacts on the habitat. Human population increases and development have created the need for us to conserve and manage wildlife. You can’t restore things to the way they were without eliminating a huge portion of human population and development. That’s just not going to happen.
I totally agree 👍
With human population increases,public safety, depredations,just a unique biodiverse habitat in Washington.
We will never be Yellowstone national park,it's just not gonna happen.
With that said ,I sent off an email today.
That will most likely will go to the recycle bin.
But I tried. :dunno:
Post by: hughjorgan on February 15, 2024, 12:23:10 PM
Is the stuff decided during the committee meeting on the 12th getting presented to the full commission for a vote this Friday the 16th? If not when?
The meeting on the 12th was brutal to listen to.
“We need to make sure we preserve, oh I’m sorry I keep saying that, we need to make sure we conserve…”.
It is so obvious they aren’t conservationist, they struggle to even use the word, their entire agenda is to eliminate hunting of all wildlife which will have drastic impacts on the habitat. Human population increases and development have created the need for us to conserve and manage wildlife. You can’t restore things to the way they were without eliminating a huge portion of human population and development. That’s just not going to happen.
I believe they are only discussing items number 1-8 of which only 6 of those items were passed out of the committee to be discussed at this Fridays commission meeting.
I am guessing they might be waiting on bear due to the fact WDFW is finishing up their 10 year study of bear density across the state. My guess is most of the study is going to show lower density’s of bears across the state and the antis on the commission are going to use that to justify a statewide September 1st opener along with a 1 bear limit; completely ignoring harvest history as an indicator of density and health.
Post by: RC on February 15, 2024, 12:49:59 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 15, 2024, 01:43:49 PM
The Wildlife Committee will report their recommendations regarding bear and cougar rulemaking and ask the Commission for a decision on the topics to be included in the rulemaking that will be sent out for public comment during the CR-102 process. The discussion will include identifying a timeline to accomplish the rulemaking.
Post by: high_hunter on February 16, 2024, 09:21:51 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on February 16, 2024, 10:06:49 AM
Yet we have to keep fighting this absurd and abusive mindset.
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Post by: dreamingbig on February 16, 2024, 10:15:05 AM
Please… cougars aren’t in danger in any PMU.
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Post by: hughjorgan on February 16, 2024, 10:23:09 AM
Post by: blackdog on February 16, 2024, 10:43:12 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on February 16, 2024, 10:45:26 AM
They don’t like Howl. Yay!
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Post by: GOcougsHunter on February 16, 2024, 10:47:14 AM
:chuckle:
Post by: high_hunter on February 16, 2024, 10:58:49 AM
Without Melanie Rowland they didn’t have the votes today. Stay vigilant.
Good point!
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 16, 2024, 11:07:02 AM
Post by: hunter399 on February 16, 2024, 11:14:26 AM
My personal opinion.
It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.
I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.
I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 16, 2024, 11:26:50 AM
So no decision was made on the Cougar and Bear season then?
They kicked the can down the road to their march meeting
Post by: hughjorgan on February 16, 2024, 11:30:13 AM
Just watched it myself.
My personal opinion.
It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.
I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.
I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.
https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf
Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
Post by: hunter399 on February 16, 2024, 11:33:47 AM
I want the department to identify it.Just watched it myself.
My personal opinion.
It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.
I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.
I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.
https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf
Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
Not the petition.
I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.
I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.
Cougar season and structure is different than most game animals.
You have ......
Overall harvest,which includes everything.
Hunter harvest
Depredations/lethal removal
Other ,which I don't even know what "other" is.
Then within this structure.
You have .....
Public safety/livestock attacks
Very strong base population/weak base population based on PMU.
Then Hunter opportunity/conservation of cougars.
It's really complex compared to other game animals.
I do agree the petition does outline the "overharvest"
You are correct,based on WDFW percent of the population.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 16, 2024, 11:44:01 AM
Post by: hughjorgan on February 16, 2024, 11:56:06 AM
I want the department to identify it.Just watched it myself.
My personal opinion.
It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.
I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.
I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.
https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf
Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
Not the petition.
I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.
I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.
From what I heard the biologists say in the Monday committee meeting they set the guidelines at 12-16 percent of cougars population based off the cougar total population which is estimated at 3600 with current estimates. They built in a buffer of about 9 percent for poaching, roadkill, depredation, etc. The bio said you can harvest 25 percent with out hurting the population. A quick number crunch shows we aren’t over that limit.
Post by: hunter399 on February 16, 2024, 11:59:41 AM
That does sound correct to me.I want the department to identify it.Just watched it myself.
My personal opinion.
It is the right decision to wait for science, sounds like the department is very close to finishing some up.
It is a concern that any rule changes at this time won't make the new regulations.
This only adds to confusion,and or hunting violations that should be legal under current rules.
I would like the department to verify what PMU 'S are over harvest guidelines for cougar.
What PMU are "hotspots" for depredations.
What PMU have the strongest base population of cougars in the state.
I'm not the type to disregard changes if it's a concern to sustainable population.
Taking hunter opportunity needs to have merit.
https://wawildlifefirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/October-25-2023-Petition-to-Amend-Bear-and-Cougar-Hunting-Rules.pdf
Page 14 of the petition will give you an idea…
Not the petition.
I will go look at page 14 ,just for kicks.
I went and took a look at page 14.
What is doesn't tell ya ,2018 there was 101 lethal removal.
2019 there was 112 lethal removal.
Two highest years for lethal removal.
Since 2019 on a statewide level , lethal removal has flatline on average about 63.5 cougars are removed. Has stayed between 63 and 65 since then.
From what I heard the biologists say in the Monday committee meeting they set the guidelines at 12-16 percent of cougars population based off the cougar total population which is estimated at 3600 with current estimates. They built in a buffer of about 9 percent for poaching, roadkill, depredation, etc. The bio said you can harvest 25 percent with out hurting the population. A quick number crunch shows we aren’t over that limit.
I agree.
Idaho cougar harvest easily doubled ours ,yet are still sustainable.
Idaho can also target male cats with hounds,which we can not.
I guess what I'm trying to say is.
PMU that fall under high depredations,that also have a high base population, strong habitat.
I really don't see the need for rule changes,since hunter harvest, depredations are flatline on a graph. I believe the season structure should be based on a PMU , Objective,needs,goals.
Population based percentage should be applied based on PMU.
But will say it will be interesting,to hear about this new science data.
How it will effect hunting seasons.
I do feel the commission made the right decision to wait for department science.
Going forward with that is best I think.
Post by: Rainier10 on February 16, 2024, 12:18:50 PM
Lorna isn’t getting her way yet and is stomping her foot.As of today almost all units are still open for cougar.
Please… cougars aren’t in danger in any PMU.
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Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 16, 2024, 12:36:09 PM
Post by: hunter399 on February 16, 2024, 01:02:07 PM
That if the department recommends it,then let's go that direction.
I'm just gonna agree with the department, really wish the commission will go that direction as well.
Department recommendations are best science available.
Let's try and make the best decision with conservation/Hunter opportunity, sustainable base population in mind.
Ya , whatever the department recommends.
I'm just gonna swallow it,and agree.
Post by: dwils233 on February 16, 2024, 01:25:49 PM
But will say it will be interesting,to hear about this new science data.
How it will effect hunting seasons.
I do feel the commission made the right decision to wait for department science.
Going forward with that is best I think.
Here's the thing though- they literally were asked to not accept this petition and just wait a couple months for pending science to inform their work and then integrate it into the GMP. Almost every org that weighed in against the petition said that; just wait and do it in the timline you've already got that will have new department data.
But they said screw that, accepted the petition and rushed in head first, because they wanted to do it NOW. Screwed up staff workloads, ignored potential new data outcomes, just wanted to barrel ahead with starting rulemaking.
Then they found out the time constraints to get it done by 2024 AND figured out that department science might be important to support their desired changes.
And now they are back to where plenty of hunters and orgs told them to be a few months ago: slow the eff down, follow the order of operations, and stop sidelining pending research.
They'll still going to use it to try and screw opportunity, but at least they could go through the damn motions right first
Post by: TriggerMike on April 19, 2024, 04:52:37 PM
Post by: Scruffy on April 19, 2024, 05:20:55 PM
Post by: hunter399 on April 19, 2024, 05:53:28 PM
I only seen the last hour of the meeting but why do I feel like I was raped. They said there was a lot of work to be done to understand the science but they couldn't leave this year alone and take time to digest the science and come up with a plan. Now they can close the season before it starts if too many conflict cougars are killed. If they do that are they going to refund me the price of my tag. And they cut the season by a month. :bash: :bash: :bash: What a disorganized bunch, they couldn't agree on the weather.I feel like that now, raped.
Just bought a cougar tag with a huge question mark for fall season.
Roll the dice I guess.
Post by: idahohuntr on April 19, 2024, 06:52:52 PM
Wow, Susewind just publicly called out the entire commission on trying to change the cougar seasons against the departments recommendations. Respect!:yeah:
Kudos to him, especially telling Smith to basically shut up so he could finish talking. Appreciated Linville, Anderson, Parker and even Lehmkuhl for voting against this non-sense. Unfortunately...the 5 idiots prevailed. I think Myers is the only one that was even possibly on the fence...folks inclined to send messages might target Myers in particular for voting yes on something so unnecessary and stupid.
Post by: TriggerMike on April 19, 2024, 07:09:59 PM
Myers seems like he is the most clueless on how the process works and what it is he's supposed to be doing. Everytime the video cut to him he was on his phone or didn't realize he was supposed to be talking and when he did talk you could tell he was very confused and out of his league. He came across as worthless to me as far as his position on the commission. Probably a nice guy tho...Wow, Susewind just publicly called out the entire commission on trying to change the cougar seasons against the departments recommendations. Respect!:yeah:
Kudos to him, especially telling Smith to basically shut up so he could finish talking. Appreciated Linville, Anderson, Parker and even Lehmkuhl for voting against this non-sense. Unfortunately...the 5 idiots prevailed. I think Myers is the only one that was even possibly on the fence...folks inclined to send messages might target Myers in particular for voting yes on something so unnecessary and stupid.
Post by: fishngamereaper on April 19, 2024, 07:21:37 PM
Myers seems like he is the most clueless on how the process works and what it is he's supposed to be doing. Everytime the video cut to him he was on his phone or didn't realize he was supposed to be talking and when he did talk you could tell he was very confused and out of his league. He came across as worthless to me as far as his position on the commission. Probably a nice guy tho...Wow, Susewind just publicly called out the entire commission on trying to change the cougar seasons against the departments recommendations. Respect!:yeah:
Kudos to him, especially telling Smith to basically shut up so he could finish talking. Appreciated Linville, Anderson, Parker and even Lehmkuhl for voting against this non-sense. Unfortunately...the 5 idiots prevailed. I think Myers is the only one that was even possibly on the fence...folks inclined to send messages might target Myers in particular for voting yes on something so unnecessary and stupid.
He's actually serving his purpose perfectly.... willful ignorance..blind obedience.
Post by: TriggerMike on April 19, 2024, 07:42:33 PM
Sure seems that way. He went from saying he's concerned about reducing hunter involvement in cougar management and hunter opportunity to literally immediately voting in lock step with Smith and Baker. If he voted no it would've been 4-4 with 1 abstention and it wouldn't have passed.Myers seems like he is the most clueless on how the process works and what it is he's supposed to be doing. Everytime the video cut to him he was on his phone or didn't realize he was supposed to be talking and when he did talk you could tell he was very confused and out of his league. He came across as worthless to me as far as his position on the commission. Probably a nice guy tho...Wow, Susewind just publicly called out the entire commission on trying to change the cougar seasons against the departments recommendations. Respect!:yeah:
Kudos to him, especially telling Smith to basically shut up so he could finish talking. Appreciated Linville, Anderson, Parker and even Lehmkuhl for voting against this non-sense. Unfortunately...the 5 idiots prevailed. I think Myers is the only one that was even possibly on the fence...folks inclined to send messages might target Myers in particular for voting yes on something so unnecessary and stupid.
He's actually serving his purpose perfectly.... willful ignorance..blind obedience.
Post by: TriggerMike on April 19, 2024, 07:53:54 PM
https://nwsportsmanmag.com/wdfw-commission-narrowly-oks-cougar-rulemaking-concepts-for-developing-2024-season/
Post by: BUTTER on April 19, 2024, 09:52:53 PM
Post by: blackdog on April 19, 2024, 10:13:46 PM