Post by: James on February 15, 2024, 10:47:21 AM
I firmly believe without change to membership on the commission we will be fighting an uphill battle forever, slowly losing our ability to fish, hunt, trap, and forage.
What group or organization has a plan to do this? WWC? Sportsman Alliance? Other?
I joined WWC a bit ago when they sued Lorna Smith, but I want to make sure I am joining and donating to the group(s) that is really going all in.
I might be more optimistic about saving our fishing and hunting than most on this board, but I am not naïve. If we can’t fix the commission it’s just a matter of time, so that needs to be our TOP priority as sportsman.
Post by: hunter399 on February 15, 2024, 12:18:04 PM
I can't tell ya what organization is right for you.
I firmly believe without change to membership on the commission we will be fighting an uphill battle forever, slowly losing our ability to fish, hunt, trap, and forage.
What group or organization has a plan to do this? WWC? Sportsman Alliance? Other?
I joined WWC a bit ago when they sued Lorna Smith, but I want to make sure I am joining and donating to the group(s) that is really going all in.
I might be more optimistic about saving our fishing and hunting than most on this board, but I am not naïve. If we can’t fix the commission it’s just a matter of time, so that needs to be our TOP priority as sportsman.
But can say the most important process is to send a respectful email to the commission.
Regarding regulations and rule changes.
Post by: fishngamereaper on February 15, 2024, 12:24:18 PM
Support for group's is fine..
If you want real change it's going to have to come from elections..... starting with governor.. :twocents:
Post by: hughjorgan on February 15, 2024, 12:29:16 PM
Post by: buckfvr on February 15, 2024, 12:40:28 PM
But can say the most important process is to send a respectful email to the commission.
Like thats done a damn bit of good in the last forever......
Post by: James on February 15, 2024, 12:47:04 PM
What I am going to bring up I think most sportsman find repulsive. Our opponents are not afraid to use dirty lawsuits, dirty politics, and race to the bottom morally to get the result they want. I could list countless examples here, but I digress…
Because we don’t race to the bottom, they have been kicking our rear end. We are losing because we are trying to take the moral high ground and I think I am tired of it. If we don’t start playing their game we are going to lose it all.
So I have completely changed my stance, I used to tell myself I would never join a highly litigious organization, but it’s time to stop losing and play the game. I want to join and donate to groups that are as aggressive as HSUS, Center for Bio Diversity, etc. but in our interest. Nothing illegal or even disrespectful to the commission of course, on the contrary, being professional and often it will be nit picking the law in our favor.
We are all going to find this morally reprehensible, but I am tired of losing to groups that don’t have these moral qualms.
Post by: ghosthunter on February 15, 2024, 01:31:59 PM
Fair points gentlemen, and I can assure you I have been sending emails and public comments.
What I am going to bring up I think most sportsman find repulsive. Our opponents are not afraid to use dirty lawsuits, dirty politics, and race to the bottom morally to get the result they want. I could list countless examples here, but I digress…
Because we don’t race to the bottom, they have been kicking our rear end. We are losing because we are trying to take the moral high ground and I think I am tired of it. If we don’t start playing their game we are going to lose it all.
So I have completely changed my stance, I used to tell myself I would never join a highly litigious organization, but it’s time to stop losing and play the game. I want to join and donate to groups that are as aggressive as HSUS, Center for Bio Diversity, etc. but in our interest. Nothing illegal or even disrespectful to the commission of course, on the contrary, being professional and often it will be nit picking the law in our favor.
We are all going to find this morally reprehensible, but I am tired of losing to groups that don’t have these moral qualms.
Trying to take them on as just hunting groups won’t work. We need to get fisherman and shell fish folks to see the big picture. They want to go Non Consumptive. That’s means no hunting ,fishing or anything else. Hunters are just the low fruit. And I would bet not even one 100 folks you talk to know what’s going on. Some how the word has to be got out.
But it’s has to be facts not guesses or assumptions.
And people making videos and posting need to be polished, otherwise it just takes away from the message.
I do agree the time to play nice is well past, they will use everything you say againist us good and bad. We have to make such a ruckus that the stink won’t wear off.
And cost them votes, when the price of supporting a corrupt commission just is too great. This is the year to rub their face in what they created.
Post by: James on February 15, 2024, 02:48:59 PM
Trying to take them on as just hunting groups won’t work. We need to get fisherman and shell fish folks to see the big picture. They want to go Non Consumptive. That’s means no hunting ,fishing or anything else. Hunters are just the low fruit. And I would bet not even one 100 folks you talk to know what’s going on. Some how the word has to be got out.
But it’s has to be facts not guesses or assumptions.
And people making videos and posting need to be polished, otherwise it just takes away from the message.
I do agree the time to play nice is well past, they will use everything you say againist us good and bad. We have to make such a ruckus that the stink won’t wear off.
And cost them votes, when the price of supporting a corrupt commission just is too great. This is the year to rub their face in what they created.
I don’t disagree, but I guess I went right to the legal side of things. We don’t need more people or votes to win in the courts, just good lawyers, but an organization that works the “public relations” front and gathers support will need people and could be helpful too.
So I guess I am looking for two things (they can be in the same group or not):
1) A highly litigious group that can win lawsuits on all the tricks we see the anti’s play (moving the goal posts, nit picking legal stuff, etc.)
2) A group that can do a “public relations” campaign like PETA, to shift the Overton window and make it untenable for Anti’s to get their way in the court of public opinion.
In all honestly the composition of the commission is the immediate crisis we currently face, and I think that’s why I went right to the legal side of things.
Since no one has voiced up any names it sounds like these groups don’t exist yet…
Post by: Humptulips on February 15, 2024, 03:04:43 PM
I think they have the potential for offense. Figure a way to get the resources the animal rights orgs seem to have and they would be there.
Post by: James on February 16, 2024, 11:03:08 AM
Anyone know anything about this group? I friend recommended I look into them.
https://www.conservationforce.org/
Post by: Mtnwalker on February 16, 2024, 12:31:39 PM
Post by: WWC on February 16, 2024, 12:45:40 PM
“We have met the enemy, and they are ours.”
--Oliver Hazzard Perry, Battle of Lake Erie
Another session where the Hunters Heritage Council did its duty. All the anti-hunting bills are dead. The beaver ecosystem management bill died in Senate Ways and Means last week, the last of the anti-hunting/anti-trapping bills. While this bill didn’t specifically mention trapping in the bill, the animal-rights people wanted this one really bad. They believed that it was the first step into banning trapping of beavers in this state, the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent. HHC stood strong. The Hunters Heritage Council is the hunter's best friend in Washington. HHC has killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation every year we have been in existence, for over 25 years!
The Hunters Heritage Council is an organization of organizations. You can become a member of HHC by being a member of one of HHC’s member organizations. Donations to the HHC PAC are always appreciated. HHC PAC is the only PAC in our state that is dedicated to electing pro-hunting candidates and defeating anti-hunting incumbents. There is no overhead, so every penny of your contribution goes to the cause!
https://huntersheritagecouncil.org/hhc-pac.html
Post by: James on February 16, 2024, 01:44:43 PM
We are a member of HHC and here is the 2024 legislative update.
“We have met the enemy, and they are ours.”
--Oliver Hazzard Perry, Battle of Lake Erie
Another session where the Hunters Heritage Council did its duty. All the anti-hunting bills are dead. The beaver ecosystem management bill died in Senate Ways and Means last week, the last of the anti-hunting/anti-trapping bills. While this bill didn’t specifically mention trapping in the bill, the animal-rights people wanted this one really bad. They believed that it was the first step into banning trapping of beavers in this state, the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent. HHC stood strong. The Hunters Heritage Council is the hunter's best friend in Washington. HHC has killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation every year we have been in existence, for over 25 years!
The Hunters Heritage Council is an organization of organizations. You can become a member of HHC by being a member of one of HHC’s member organizations. Donations to the HHC PAC are always appreciated. HHC PAC is the only PAC in our state that is dedicated to electing pro-hunting candidates and defeating anti-hunting incumbents. There is no overhead, so every penny of your contribution goes to the cause!
https://huntersheritagecouncil.org/hhc-pac.html
Thank you for chiming in, I love the fact you guys/HHC pac are so successful fighting anti hunting Legislation.
Does WWC have any plans to try and address the composition of the WDFW commission? I joined WWC last year when they sued Lorna Smith and the Governor. I know the wheels of justice move slowly in the court system, but to me the anti consumptive commission members is an immediate threat.
Post by: hughjorgan on February 16, 2024, 02:11:30 PM
We are a member of HHC and here is the 2024 legislative update.
“We have met the enemy, and they are ours.”
--Oliver Hazzard Perry, Battle of Lake Erie
Another session where the Hunters Heritage Council did its duty. All the anti-hunting bills are dead. The beaver ecosystem management bill died in Senate Ways and Means last week, the last of the anti-hunting/anti-trapping bills. While this bill didn’t specifically mention trapping in the bill, the animal-rights people wanted this one really bad. They believed that it was the first step into banning trapping of beavers in this state, the proverbial camel’s nose under the tent. HHC stood strong. The Hunters Heritage Council is the hunter's best friend in Washington. HHC has killed every piece of anti-hunting legislation every year we have been in existence, for over 25 years!
The Hunters Heritage Council is an organization of organizations. You can become a member of HHC by being a member of one of HHC’s member organizations. Donations to the HHC PAC are always appreciated. HHC PAC is the only PAC in our state that is dedicated to electing pro-hunting candidates and defeating anti-hunting incumbents. There is no overhead, so every penny of your contribution goes to the cause!
https://huntersheritagecouncil.org/hhc-pac.html
Thank you for chiming in, I love the fact you guys/HHC pac are so successful fighting anti hunting Legislation.
Does WWC have any plans to try and address the composition of the WDFW commission? I joined WWC last year when they sued Lorna Smith and the Governor. I know the wheels of justice move slowly in the court system, but to me the anti consumptive commission members is an immediate threat.
They tried…
Assistant Attorney General Joseph Panesko filed a motion to dismiss with the Thurston County
Superior Court to dismiss the Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation lawsuit. That motion was
heard by Judge Indu Thomas on Friday, September 15, 2023. Judge Thomas agreed with the
defendants and dismissed our lawsuit in its entirety, giving two reasons.
1. That WWC as a non-profit did not having standing to sue; and
2. The Governor had a wide range of discretion in making appointments.
This defies all logic and reason. We based our case on the Builders successfully suing the Governor
and the building council. Our attorney, Callie Castillo of Lane Powell, represented the Building
Industry. How did the BIAW, a non-profit for political action on behalf of the building industry,
like HHC is for the hunters, have standing to sue the Governor and the building council, yet WWC
lack the same standing?
The judge also ruled that the Governor's discretion overrules the balance doctrine in RCW
77.04.040. RCW 77.04.040 say that the Governor needs to reach out to all user groups and make
sure the Commission is balanced. This ruling just said the Governor’s discretion overrides the
balance doctrine of the RCW.
Our legal team was outstanding in every way. They were professional, well-prepared, intelligent,
and great to work with. I will sing their praises. Callie Castillo is a phenomenal attorney and so is
her legal team. Going to court isn’t a guarantee of victory. We went to court and we showed the
Commission, WDFW, and the animal-right groups that we were willing to sue, something that the
hunting community had never done before. Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation isn’t done
with the legal route, we have kept Callie Castillo and Lane Powell on retainer for possible future
legal action.
WWC isn’t just going to stick to the courts. We’re the unified sporting community. We’re going
to recruit new activists and train members of our existing membership base. We are going to
teach new techniques to become more effective in the fight. We will always be THE leaders in
the outdoor community.
Post by: ghosthunter on February 16, 2024, 04:15:03 PM
:dunno:
Also never heard a thing about wolves eating the dog near Texas Creek in news. If everyone of these predator contacts could be linked back to the Commission through the public could help.
I realize they are watching here so don’t give any secrets away. Use of pm is prudent.
Post by: WWC on February 19, 2024, 09:56:10 AM
Thank you for chiming in, I love the fact you guys/HHC pac are so successful fighting anti hunting Legislation.
Does WWC have any plans to try and address the composition of the WDFW commission? I joined WWC last year when they sued Lorna Smith and the Governor. I know the wheels of justice move slowly in the court system, but to me the anti consumptive commission members is an immediate threat.
Yes we are working on some cool things regaurding the composition of the comission.
Post by: WWC on February 19, 2024, 10:08:49 AM
Any plans to educate public in someway of the impending push to Non consumption by Game Commission? If you could get the fisherman on board ,because they will be next, that would be a lot more clout.
:dunno:
In the past we have had a presence at the State Fair to expose the non hunting public to sportsmen and management of ALL species. Unfortunately our pool of volunteers for this has shrunk and they extended how long the fair is. Reaching the non hunting public is one of the most important things that can be done. We need an ARMY of volunteers to cover the time of Aug 30 to Sept 22nd. If you are a member check your emails because in order for us to do this we need robust commitment. Often times we have been set up next to the archery event for kids creating ample opportunity to talk about hunting and management.
We were not at the sportsmen show this year. Sadly or lead organizer had his house catch fire and burnt up his office and Trophy room that provided many of the mounts and display items we use for events.
We can always use your money but your time is more valuable!
Post by: Special T on February 19, 2024, 12:08:04 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on February 20, 2024, 11:09:32 AM
People who work together will win, whether it be against complex football defenses, or the problems of modern society.
Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work.
Vince Lombardi
Post by: wags on March 01, 2024, 11:40:34 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 02, 2024, 01:07:53 AM
Unfortunately, we don't have any rights to hunt in this State. If we had rights, we wouldn't be continually losing them.Not so sure about that. Look at firearms rights in WA, been losing any of those lately?
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Post by: hughjorgan on March 02, 2024, 01:14:58 AM
Unfortunately, we don't have any rights to hunt in this State. If we had rights, we wouldn't be continually losing them.Not so sure about that. Look at firearms rights in WA, been losing any of those lately?
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:yeah: That is exactly what came to my mind when reading his post