Post by: James on March 07, 2024, 10:42:33 AM
We need to really show up for this one. We got a win last time by flooding emails about the 2024 bear season proposal and showing up to the meeting, need to keep the pressure on.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/meetings/2024/14-16mar2024-agenda
Looks like they are back on the conservation policy, east/west deer tags, cougar hunting, and more.
Post by: GWP on March 07, 2024, 11:04:09 AM
I feel for all the younger 'hunter gatherer' folks and the up hill battle they are facing.
Not sure it will turn around, or can turn around at this point. 'Pacific Northwestern California' that was joked about back in the late 70's and 80's has turned into a reality.
As was stated many years ago
"All the votes you need can be seen from the top of the Space Needle."
'City folk' deciding what happens all across the State is ridiculous, bordering on criminal, in my opinion, with the stark differences between the East and West side.
I believe the biggest indicator at the time of what was to come was the hound hunting vote that went 'to the people'. I remember being surprised and shocked when that happened. Sure, there were other indicators, but to remove that tool from the WDFW war chest was crazy.
I believe the WDFW was still doing a pretty good job back then. Not so much now.
Post by: James on March 07, 2024, 11:31:58 AM
What pains me now is how good WDFW now seems when compared to the commission. I of course still have a laundry list of things I would like to see WDFW change/improve, but the commission reminds me how much worse it could be. Never thought I would see WDFW in that light...
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 12:00:56 PM
As far as cougar goes, I am interested to see if their density is increased, decreased or stable. I think no matter what they change to that season the same amount of cougars are going to die by the department and hounds. All you have to do is look at California to see that. But it isn’t good for opportunity for hunters and that is what the antis aim is to take as much opportunity if not all of it out of our hands.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 12:11:21 PM
The only issue I could see is if implemented like elk, the vast majority of folks are gonna stick to east side due to special permit eligibility. I may have to take up blacktail hunting if that's the case :chuckle:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 07, 2024, 12:36:33 PM
Bring on the east west deer tags. Our herds for all species are long past the point of it being a complete free for all.:yeah:
The only issue I could see is if implemented like elk, the vast majority of folks are gonna stick to east side due to special permit eligibility. I may have to take up blacktail hunting if that's the case :chuckle:
I actually say go a step further and make them species specific. :twocents:
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 12:47:57 PM
Bring on the east west deer tags. Our herds for all species are long past the point of it being a complete free for all.:yeah:
The only issue I could see is if implemented like elk, the vast majority of folks are gonna stick to east side due to special permit eligibility. I may have to take up blacktail hunting if that's the case :chuckle:
I actually say go a step further and make them species specific. :twocents:
Agreed I think having to choose a species of deer is what will help reduce pressure on our deer herds.
Post by: James on March 07, 2024, 01:06:27 PM
I doubt there will be a significant enough change to reduce pressure and have a meaningful impact to herds.
The few people that hunt both sides will just get multi season permits.
Post by: ghosthunter on March 07, 2024, 01:18:19 PM
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 07, 2024, 01:27:01 PM
I put this in the other thread too.Except for "NOT SELECTED" happens a lot (especially for me).. If you don't pay an additional $139.10+$5.00 you are relegated to a very very short season in general season for most parts of EWA unless you draw something/anything. Also hoping for a multi season permit may not be a long term strategy as this forum reveals that there are many opponents of the multiseason and has the potential of being cancelled.
I doubt there will be a significant enough change to reduce pressure and have a meaningful impact to herds.
The few people that hunt both sides will just get multi season permits.
Post by: James on March 07, 2024, 01:34:27 PM
We should focus on those.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 01:49:53 PM
I put this in the other thread too.Except for "NOT SELECTED" happens a lot (especially for me).. If you don't pay an additional $139.10+$5.00 you are relegated to a very very short season in general season for most parts of EWA unless you draw something/anything. Also hoping for a multi season permit may not be a long term strategy as this forum reveals that there are many opponents of the multiseason and has the potential of being cancelled.
I doubt there will be a significant enough change to reduce pressure and have a meaningful impact to herds.
The few people that hunt both sides will just get multi season permits.
A 10 day high hunt, 10 mule deer season, 14 days for whitetail and then you have late whitetail for another 8 days. That’s a whole month with a modern rifle to hunt deer. Far from short.
Post by: dreamingbig on March 07, 2024, 01:51:52 PM
And this statement… ppfffttt
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240307/c31ec64a81e78983876fd5926db2e373.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 07, 2024, 02:03:18 PM
Fair point... High hunt is a hunt which appeals only to a very select few who have the gear and fitness to actually do the hunt. 2 weekends for early general. And Eastern WA late season general only has 7 GMUs out of approx 100 EWA gmus. I get what you are saying, but, an East/West split isn't just about NE Whitetails.I put this in the other thread too.Except for "NOT SELECTED" happens a lot (especially for me).. If you don't pay an additional $139.10+$5.00 you are relegated to a very very short season in general season for most parts of EWA unless you draw something/anything. Also hoping for a multi season permit may not be a long term strategy as this forum reveals that there are many opponents of the multiseason and has the potential of being cancelled.
I doubt there will be a significant enough change to reduce pressure and have a meaningful impact to herds.
The few people that hunt both sides will just get multi season permits.
A 10 day high hunt, 10 mule deer season, 14 days for whitetail and then you have late whitetail for another 8 days. That’s a whole month with a modern rifle to hunt deer. Far from short.
Post by: callturner on March 07, 2024, 04:54:35 PM
Post by: MADMAX on March 07, 2024, 04:56:41 PM
What a bunch of crap.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 07, 2024, 05:35:55 PM
Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around there's some dumb*** trying to give us more regulations. I saw this years ago when they first implemented cougar tags. Everybody always has to have a new law. They try a. point restriction in Eastern Washington for whitetails, that went over like a ton of crap.I wish the apr in NE would come back. :chuckle:
Post by: teanawayslayer on March 07, 2024, 07:16:28 PM
Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around there's some dumb*** trying to give us more regulations. I saw this years ago when they first implemented cougar tags. Everybody always has to have a new law. They try a. point restriction in Eastern Washington for whitetails, that went over like a ton of crap.:yeah:
Post by: trophyhunt on March 07, 2024, 08:03:24 PM
fix the predator problem, that is the answer NOT more restrictions for F’s sake.Bring on the east west deer tags. Our herds for all species are long past the point of it being a complete free for all.:yeah:
The only issue I could see is if implemented like elk, the vast majority of folks are gonna stick to east side due to special permit eligibility. I may have to take up blacktail hunting if that's the case :chuckle:
I actually say go a step further and make them species specific. :twocents:
Agreed I think having to choose a species of deer is what will help reduce pressure on our deer herds.
Post by: bigtex on March 07, 2024, 08:51:10 PM
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Post by: TommyH on March 07, 2024, 09:49:07 PM
Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around there's some dumb*** trying to give us more regulations. I saw this years ago when they first implemented cougar tags. Everybody always has to have a new law. They try a. point restriction in Eastern Washington for whitetails, that went over like a ton of crap.I wish the apr in NE would come back. :chuckle:
Absolutely, when it was implemented, soon after we seen the difference that was happening, whether that was to the apr, or decent winters/easy spring, Pre bluetounge die off.. or less predators at the time it was noticeably more older age class of bucks, it was a good time to hunt here, and I wish we could be back to them numbers and age structure.
Post by: dreamingbig on March 07, 2024, 10:38:01 PM
The east/west deer tag proposal is a citizen petition that was submitted by the NE WA Wildlife Group.Who is the NE WA wildlife group? Any members on here?
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 11:12:10 PM
The east/west deer tag proposal is a citizen petition that was submitted by the NE WA Wildlife Group.Who is the NE WA wildlife group? Any members on here?
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pretty sure it is the same group that lobbied to get the 4pt APR in the NE.
Post by: TriggerMike on March 08, 2024, 10:15:43 AM
Post by: James on March 08, 2024, 10:16:11 AM
The devil is at the door, anti's are trying to get rid of fishing, hunting and trapping, and we are bickering about East/West deer.
The conservation policy, wolf, and cougar items on this meeting are the top priorities.
We NEED to focus on those.
Prediction: The new conservation policy will be the same as the last, but they carve out tribal and non tribal.
This would be a huge blow, right now anti's are an existential threat, and we need to come together with our Tribal brothers to fight these soyboys that are trying to take our state from us.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 08, 2024, 10:31:59 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 08, 2024, 11:07:59 AM
James, you are correct. And agreeing with this change I feel is going along with the AntisBut it's a hunting group that brought the petition :dunno:
To James's comment, we are all watching those other topics closely. We've discussed them endlessly already. The east west topic is just a new one.
The wolf briefing is just a status update. There is no management changes happening so I don't think that portion of the meeting is worth getting riled up over.
Conservation policy status report should be monitored but the wording in the schedule doesn't bring me to believe that any decision making is happening. :dunno:
Cougar and bear season setting should be the main focus.
Post by: James on March 08, 2024, 11:20:20 AM
James, you are correct. And agreeing with this change I feel is going along with the AntisBut it's a hunting group that brought the petition :dunno:
Yes, but just ask yourself if the Anti's would want this? They are pretty pragmatic and very astute at seeing opportunities to divide and conquer.
There are plenty of sportsmen's groups I see giving ground to Anti's. I like to flyfish, but man wade into a few of those groups and you would think you were at a PETA rally.
If data/modeling is presented that actually shows this would have a significant effect on our deer populations, Ill change my mind. Until then...
I really feel like burden of proof needs to be on the proposer here.
Post by: callturner on March 08, 2024, 11:54:54 AM
Post by: TriggerMike on March 08, 2024, 12:03:38 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 08, 2024, 12:20:44 PM
He had a few challenges but if you had the time to listen to him he could tell you anything or everything about his equipment. I would see him standing at a bus stop waiting to catch the bus to fish Riverfront park.
Here's a little story about the day he became a celebrity.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/aug/16/rare-pike-bites-teens-line-in-city/
Rare pike bites teen’s line in city
Crowd gathers, three men help in a half-hour battle
Tue., Aug. 16, 2011
By Rich Landers
richl@spokesman.com
(509) 459-5508
Joe Buster, of Spokane, landed this northern pike in Riverfront Park across from the Looff Carrousel while fishing for trout on Saturday, Aug. 13, 2011 -- two days before his 18th birthday. He said the fish measured 42 inches long. (Courtesy Buster / The Spokesman-Review)
Joe Buster, of Spokane, landed this northern pike in Riverfront Park across from the Looff Carrousel while fishing for trout on Saturday, Aug. 13, 2011 -- two days before his 18th birthday. He said the fish measured 42 inches long. (Courtesy Buster / The Spokesman-Review)
Map of this story's location
View full map
While little kids were reaching for the golden ring Saturday at the Looff Carrousel, a Spokane teenager hooked the fish of his dreams just outside the door in Riverfront Park.
Joe Buster rides the city bus regularly to fish the Howard Street section of the Spokane River and rarely gets much attention from passers-by as he casts for the occasional foot-long trout or bass.
But he rose to rock-star status after a 42-inch-long northern pike smacked his Mepps Agilia spinner and torpedoed across the pool.
“I was shocked, amazed, bewildered and the next thing I knew my reel was running out line and people were standing all around wondering what the heck it was,” he said.
“I recognized it was not a trout.”
Northern pike, a non-native species, are not common to the Spokane River west of Idaho, although they’re known to wash downstream occasionally from Lake Coeur d’Alene.
Washington’s state record pike, weighing 34 pounds, was caught in Long Lake by local angler Bryan McMannis in 2004.
But catching one in the Spokane River is rare, and the angler didn’t talk if a big one ever was caught in Riverfront Park.
Buster said he cast into the area after seeing baitfish scatter “like bats out of heck” as he scouted from the park footbridge.
“I thought I had located a bass,” he said.
He cast and retrieved the lure and was ready to cast again when the giant fish shot out of the shadows just 10 feet from the end of his rod.
Pike are voracious predators with a rack of teeth that can render an angler’s hand into Hamburger Helper.
“I knew I had to be very, very careful,” Buster said, noting that he was battling a fish of 15-20 pounds on line rated to 12 pounds of strength.
“Two guys came down and got in the water to help me land the fish when I finally reeled it into shore, but it bolted and made another sudden run – and then another after that.”
The contest lasted about 30 minutes.
“There were people gathered on the park grass and lined up on the bridge watching this go down,” Buster said.
By that time, another regular park angler – Buster knows him only as George – was in the water with the other men to help bring Buster’s behemoth ashore.
A bystander took the angler’s cell phone and snapped a photo, which Buster immediately emailed to Pete Roundy, the General Store clerk who helps him rig up his fishing tackle.
“I couldn’t believe it until I saw the picture,” Roundy said. “I was tickled for him.”
“It may not be a state record,” Buster said, “but it broke my own record by a long shoe – and just two days before my 18th birthday to boot.
“It took all my strength to lift it up high,” he recalled Monday, clearly relishing the chance to re-live the moment. “It’s twice as big as anything I’ve ever caught. I was already getting anxious to take it home and eat it.”
Somebody helped him with the unsavory and bloody task of dispatching the lunker and removing the hook in front of a large crowd of gawkers in shorts and flip-flops.
Then reality sunk in. The hand cooler Buster brings to the river is 14 inches wide.
“I started heading to the bus stop to take the fish home when I realized that probably wasn’t a good idea,” he said.
“I looked at George and said, ‘If you can take it and smoke it, I’ll give you half.’”
George was in a much better position to go three miles in the 85-degree heat with a 3 ½ foot-long fish oozing with slime and various body fluids.
“He had his bicycle,” Buster said.
While most of the flow doesn't look like pike water the backwater above the dam avista has there are some slow moving sections that could harbor a few.
And for the record I do favor making a choice for east or west. Just because you own property on both sides of the state you need to make a choice.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 08, 2024, 12:57:17 PM
No part of me believes the petition from this hunting group has anything to do with increasing herd numbers. They want to decrease the amount of hunters in the NE corner so there's less competition for them and in doing so will give the antis a huge win and likely momentum to take more. These guys are cutting off their nose to spite their face and I believe it's selfish and will harm our cause.
That group also lobbied for a second bear tag and has been lobbying to increase the take of cougars with a system like is done in the panhandle of Idaho. They were also the ones that got the APR changed to 4 point. Seems like they are trying to make positive changes since the founding of their group 30 years ago. They’ve been going to the commission meetings and participating while the majority of us have been sitting idle. I doubt if this passes that it will really effect many peoples ability to hunt deer.
Post by: James on March 08, 2024, 01:19:14 PM
No part of me believes the petition from this hunting group has anything to do with increasing herd numbers. They want to decrease the amount of hunters in the NE corner so there's less competition for them and in doing so will give the antis a huge win and likely momentum to take more. These guys are cutting off their nose to spite their face and I believe it's selfish and will harm our cause.
That group also lobbied for a second bear tag and has been lobbying to increase the take of cougars with a system like is done in the panhandle of Idaho. They were also the ones that got the APR changed to 4 point. Seems like they are trying to make positive changes since the founding of their group 30 years ago. They’ve been going to the commission meetings and participating while the majority of us have been sitting idle. I doubt if this passes that it will really effect many peoples ability to hunt deer.
I am not trying to disparage them, I am glad they are on our team overall. Just because they are on our team doesn't mean all of their proposals are gospel.
I come up with all sorts of stupid ideas all the time.
I can think of countless times I have supported something in the past that in hindsight was not a net positive.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 08, 2024, 03:34:40 PM
No part of me believes the petition from this hunting group has anything to do with increasing herd numbers. They want to decrease the amount of hunters in the NE corner so there's less competition for them and in doing so will give the antis a huge win and likely momentum to take more. These guys are cutting off their nose to spite their face and I believe it's selfish and will harm our cause.
That group also lobbied for a second bear tag and has been lobbying to increase the take of cougars with a system like is done in the panhandle of Idaho. They were also the ones that got the APR changed to 4 point. Seems like they are trying to make positive changes since the founding of their group 30 years ago. They’ve been going to the commission meetings and participating while the majority of us have been sitting idle. I doubt if this passes that it will really effect many peoples ability to hunt deer.
I am not trying to disparage them, I am glad they are on our team overall. Just because they are on our team doesn't mean all of their proposals are gospel.
I come up with all sorts of stupid ideas all the time.
I can think of countless times I have supported something in the past that in hindsight was not a net positive.
It works well for elk it is the step in the right direction to help our mule deer and white tail herds IMO. It’s not going to hurt deer hunting anymore than what we currently have.
Post by: JBar on March 08, 2024, 08:41:29 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 08, 2024, 09:16:30 PM
Post by: JBar on March 09, 2024, 07:59:57 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 09, 2024, 08:28:14 AM
No part of me believes the petition from this hunting group has anything to do with increasing herd numbers. They want to decrease the amount of hunters in the NE corner so there's less competition for them and in doing so will give the antis a huge win and likely momentum to take more. These guys are cutting off their nose to spite their face and I believe it's selfish and will harm our cause.
Some bold assumptions about average joes who care about a herd. They also spend a lot of time and energy on predator management (for whatever it's worth) and have put their money where their mouth is more than a few times.
Disagreeing with them on a topic or two doesn't mean they are spiteful belligerents.
Post by: buckfvr on March 09, 2024, 09:42:27 AM
No part of me believes the petition from this hunting group has anything to do with increasing herd numbers. They want to decrease the amount of hunters in the NE corner so there's less competition for them and in doing so will give the antis a huge win and likely momentum to take more. These guys are cutting off their nose to spite their face and I believe it's selfish and will harm our cause.
Go to one of their meetings and see and meet the "guys", and you will leave with a far different opinion of these "guys" who live here with the deer, have their entire lives, and are mostly older and far past their hunting prime (like myself). They care about the deer first, and only want to stop the decline that is gaining speed.
The "less competition for them" is actually funny if you know them.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 09, 2024, 10:15:09 AM
Actually haven’t hunted mule deer in WA in probably 6 or 7 years! I just see the writing on the wall and you mentioned it. First it will be east or west, then species and after that permit only. Instead of addressing the predator, winter range and permit doe harvest we’ll just remove opportunity during general seasons. Do you think once it heads down that road they’ll actually turn the bus around even if there are herd improvements? Nope just sell more permits for more money that they are pissing away! Someone said it above, drop this and focus on what the real agenda of the commission is!
I think the writing is on the wall is inevitable that they will split the state, or go to specie specific or permit or quota system to help our struggling deer herds. The whole idea of splitting the state for deer season is coming from hunters by the way. They also were the same people that pushed for a second bear tag state wide that the anti hunters are crying about. Make your voice heard through an email on this and about cougars they’ll be making a decision on. Your points are valid but I am a bit more optimistic about the future and getting opportunity back. I think what this commission has done is getting more and more sportsmen involved and engaged and as long as that keeps growing we’re going to be in good shape in the future. The anti hunters who speak at the commission meetings are always the same folks and for the most part are always the anti hunting organization heads.
Post by: JBar on March 09, 2024, 10:57:14 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on March 09, 2024, 11:08:32 AM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 09, 2024, 12:16:38 PM
The Yakima elk herd is 10x healthier than our deer herds could ever hope to be and look at how much opportunity we’re getting there. Sign of what’s coming if this is the direction that things go
I agree and I think lots of others do as well. This is where we need sportsman engaging the WDFW and the commission to get our opportunity back.
Post by: Chris57 on March 09, 2024, 12:32:13 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 09, 2024, 12:52:54 PM
Im not surprised.
Post by: James on March 10, 2024, 01:31:36 PM
East/West elk and East/West Deer tags are very different things.
While I don't like east/west elk tags, I really believe its the best play we have with the hand we have been dealt.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/9-summary-sheet-petition-deer-tags.pdf
Post by: Lucky1 on March 11, 2024, 04:49:36 PM
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/lionbearseason?
I see someone else started a thread with the same link. I guess I’ll leave it here too.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 11, 2024, 05:24:55 PM
Not sure if this is a good place to post this opportunity to engage the commission on predator management.
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/lionbearseason?
I see someone else started a thread with the same link. I guess I’ll leave it here too.
The more eyes that see it the better! Thanks for posting. :tup:
Post by: goldenhtr on March 11, 2024, 05:51:09 PM
:yeah: AgainYeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around there's some dumb*** trying to give us more regulations. I saw this years ago when they first implemented cougar tags. Everybody always has to have a new law. They try a. point restriction in Eastern Washington for whitetails, that went over like a ton of crap.:yeah:
Post by: hunter399 on March 11, 2024, 07:02:21 PM
Disagree:yeah: AgainYeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around Yeah let's make more laws divide everything up so they can eat away at it. How about we just try to protect what we've got. It seems like every time we turn around there's some dumb*** trying to give us more regulations. I saw this years ago when they first implemented cougar tags. Everybody always has to have a new law. They try a. point restriction in Eastern Washington for whitetails, that went over like a ton of crap.:yeah:
Harvest was higher in the APR years then it is now,with an any buck regulation.
Your odds or opportunity was better in 2014 with an APR.
Then it is now. It's a true testament to what has happened to our deer herds.