Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 12:20:36 PM
Are you blacktail guys giving up your east side permit applications for the love of those cute, little racked rainforest deer?
Eastside guys going Westside because you think the woods will be wide open with everyone choosing Eastside deer so they can still apply for the Entiat?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 12:28:26 PM
Post by: hunterednate on March 07, 2024, 12:32:24 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 12:34:26 PM
That being said I don’t apply for deer tags and prefer hunting the east side. I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to choose species of deer rather than east or west. I am guessing pressure won’t be significantly changed for whitetails like the petitioner seeks.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 12:40:24 PM
It’s not a WDFW proposal but a petition brought by the Northeast Washington. wildlife Group. You can read the reason for it here https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-02/03152024-petition-eastside-westside-deer-tags.pdfappreciate the clarification. Just saw it on their meeting agenda and jumped to starting this poll.
That being said I don’t apply for deer tags and prefer hunting the east side. I wonder if it wouldn’t be better to choose species of deer rather than east or west. I am guessing pressure won’t be significantly changed for whitetails like the petitioner seeks.
I would LOVE the choose your species option over choosing east/west. I personally believe there needs to be more science and structure to our deer seasons. It should be by draw only and every unit should have a quota based on populations of each unit. We are so far past the free for all we currently have. We need to nuke multi season permits as well but I digress. Topics for another thread I guess :chuckle:
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 07, 2024, 12:41:09 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 07, 2024, 12:44:31 PM
Whitetail hunting has gone from nearly automatic to actually requiring some serious scouting and effort.
Just say no to multi-season permits.
Post by: JakeLand on March 07, 2024, 12:50:21 PM
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 07, 2024, 12:52:03 PM
Even though I live in 121 and hunt here I cant imagine anyone living in western wa going to the expense and effort of traveling to ne wa for the hunting that is now but a shadow of what it was 10, 12, 15 years ago.Agree on your thought of going all the way to NE WA from western WA being a PIA. But, there are so many folks who have family farms and traditional public land hunting camps all over eastern WA and travel to them to hunt. If we need to address dwindling populations, cut special permits...eliminate the hunts... close GMUs.. But to shut out the entire half of the state seems a bit excessive.
Whitetail hunting has gone from nearly automatic to actually requiring some serious scouting and effort.
Just say no to multi-season permits.
Post by: kentrek on March 07, 2024, 01:02:01 PM
Post by: James on March 07, 2024, 01:05:27 PM
The few people that hunt both sides will just get multi season permits.
Post by: greenhead_killer on March 07, 2024, 01:06:02 PM
Even though I live in 121 and hunt here I cant imagine anyone living in western wa going to the expense and effort of traveling to ne wa for the hunting that is now but a shadow of what it was 10, 12, 15 years ago.Agree on your thought of going all the way to NE WA from western WA being a PIA. But, there are so many folks who have family farms and traditional public land hunting camps all over eastern WA and travel to them to hunt. If we need to address dwindling populations, cut special permits...eliminate the hunts... close GMUs.. But to shut out the entire half of the state seems a bit excessive.
Whitetail hunting has gone from nearly automatic to actually requiring some serious scouting and effort.
Just say no to multi-season permits.
i see shutting the units down being thrown out etc, but whats the main issue in every unit in the state, east or west? predators. until we get a firm grip back on their booming numbers, eastside vs westside doesnt matter. the numbers will still not be there.
i picked eastside btw as i live over on this side and have property here as well
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 07, 2024, 01:08:47 PM
Post by: raydog on March 07, 2024, 01:16:36 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 07, 2024, 01:21:48 PM
On average that happens every 6-7 years...I don't love Mule deer enough to apply and not hunt.
I'll stick to grey ghosts..I like a challenge anyway.
Personally I would get rid of multi season first though..
Post by: elevenpt1 on March 07, 2024, 01:25:07 PM
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 07, 2024, 01:54:24 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 02:14:10 PM
Karl, don't be jealous because we can carry our deer out on our backs whole.. :chuckle: :chuckle:Jesus! I'm thankful my jab at you blacktail boiz didn't go unnoticed :chuckle:
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 07, 2024, 02:39:41 PM
If Northeast washington wildlife group has such an issue with whitetail in their corner of the state then why try and screw the ENTIRE state over. If there's a problem in a particular area then you address that particular area????
Maybe just shut down whitetail hunting for a few years if it's so bad that they think westsiders hunting both sides are the reason whitetail numbers are struggling. That'd probably change the tune of these people real fast.
I think every area of the state would benefit. NE WT definitely get pounded the hardest but they aren't struggling as much as certain other areas.
Post by: Taco280AI on March 07, 2024, 02:48:12 PM
Karl, don't be jealous because we can carry our deer out on our backs whole.. :chuckle: :chuckle:Jesus! I'm thankful my jab at you blacktail boiz didn't go unnoticed :chuckle:
Easy side is for deer hunters that lack skill :chuckle:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 02:51:37 PM
Karl, don't be jealous because we can carry our deer out on our backs whole.. :chuckle: :chuckle:Jesus! I'm thankful my jab at you blacktail boiz didn't go unnoticed :chuckle:
Easy side is for deer hunters that lack skill :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on March 07, 2024, 02:52:40 PM
Here is the problem, Washington does not have enough game to satisfy the hunting population numbers! Its been that way since I started hunting at 10 years old.
Yakima elk numbers are better than I have ever seen, I probably spend more time in that unit than most. So I think I would know if we were in a decline for elk.
I kill a buck almost every year in one of the yakima units.
You want wyoming, but in reality you live in Washington.
Post by: blackymaster20 on March 07, 2024, 03:12:31 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on March 07, 2024, 03:14:38 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on March 07, 2024, 04:02:12 PM
Do our mule deer have a serious problem in this state? YES they certainly do. But quit thinking a DRAW will solve all the world problems!!! I didn’t invest thousands of dollars in gear over 40 years to MAYBE go hunting!!!Your saying the elk numbers are better in that unit then they were 10 , 15 , 20 years ago :rolleyes: Why are the Elk numbers down in ALL the neighboring units ? Why have Bull and cow tags been drastically cut in all these units in the past 20 years ?
Here is the problem, Washington does not have enough game to satisfy the hunting population numbers! Its been that way since I started hunting at 10 years old.
Yakima elk numbers are better than I have ever seen, I probably spend more time in that unit than most. So I think I would know if we were in a decline for elk.
I kill a buck almost every year in one of the yakima units.
You want wyoming, but in reality you live in Washington.
Eastside for me .
Post by: vandeman17 on March 07, 2024, 04:03:24 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 04:40:21 PM
If you trust the counts and estimates then yes. As of 2022 counts the Yakima population unit is near an all time high population. IMO I believe we have exceeded their numbers. This is truly the glory days of elk in Yakima county. We've never had more elk on the landscape in their 111 years.Do our mule deer have a serious problem in this state? YES they certainly do. But quit thinking a DRAW will solve all the world problems!!! I didn’t invest thousands of dollars in gear over 40 years to MAYBE go hunting!!!Your saying the elk numbers are better in that unit then they were 10 , 15 , 20 years ago :rolleyes: Why are the Elk numbers down in ALL the neighboring units ? Why have Bull and cow tags been drastically cut in all these units in the past 20 years ?
Here is the problem, Washington does not have enough game to satisfy the hunting population numbers! Its been that way since I started hunting at 10 years old.
Yakima elk numbers are better than I have ever seen, I probably spend more time in that unit than most. So I think I would know if we were in a decline for elk.
I kill a buck almost every year in one of the yakima units.
You want wyoming, but in reality you live in Washington.
Post by: The100Road on March 07, 2024, 04:52:14 PM
Just another way to screw us out of opportunities.
Exactly. Hunters are thinking it’s going to increase deer herds and they’ll be more successful with less pressure. It’s really just the commissions way to make sure they have enough deer to feed the predators since we won’t be allowed to hunt them anymore.
If deer herds are hurting then why are we reducing predator hunting? Hunters give, give and give. Never get anything back.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 05:05:40 PM
Just another way to screw us out of opportunities.
Exactly. Hunters are thinking it’s going to increase deer herds and they’ll be more successful with less pressure. It’s really just the commissions way to make sure they have enough deer to feed the predators since we won’t be allowed to hunt them anymore.
If deer herds are hurting then why are we reducing predator hunting? Hunters give, give and give. Never get anything back.
The commissioners aren’t the petitioners; a hunting advocate group from the NE corner is.
Post by: huntnnw on March 07, 2024, 05:13:03 PM
Just another way to screw us out of opportunities.
But just fine that elk has been that way forever? I’ve pushed for this for a long time or eliminate east west elk tag
Post by: TeacherMan on March 07, 2024, 05:19:50 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 05:23:32 PM
Is this really a thing or just curiosity?
Yes it is to be considered before the commission meeting on march 14-16
Post by: jason stevens on March 07, 2024, 05:44:22 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 05:48:15 PM
My question will be how do they implement this when you have a multi season tag put in for alreadyno different than they do with elk. Multi season tags are valid both east and west.
Post by: ASHQUACK on March 07, 2024, 06:02:04 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on March 07, 2024, 06:09:20 PM
Post by: baldopepper on March 07, 2024, 06:18:40 PM
Be interesting to add another poll of how many people this would even affect. Example when I lived in WA I never hunted the Westside. I wonder how many people there are that actually hunt both sides every year.I actually know several who do, but most just do the late whitetail hunt. Suspect that hunt might be the most affected if they change
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 07, 2024, 06:19:16 PM
Be interesting to add another poll of how many people this would even affect. Example when I lived in WA I never hunted the Westside. I wonder how many people there are that actually hunt both sides every year.I think there is a whole pile of dudes that hunt muley's but race back west to hunt the blacktail rut. Then if that doesn't pan out had Northeast to try and get a whitetail. I know quite a few guys who make the rounds each fall.
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 07, 2024, 06:22:58 PM
Be interesting to add another poll of how many people this would even affect. Example when I lived in WA I never hunted the Westside. I wonder how many people there are that actually hunt both sides every year.I think there is a whole pile of dudes that hunt muley's but race back west to hunt the blacktail rut. Then if that doesn't pan out had Northeast to try and get a whitetail. I know quite a few guys who make the rounds each fall.
:yeah:
Yup...
Post by: rtspring on March 07, 2024, 06:48:38 PM
Do our mule deer have a serious problem in this state? YES they certainly do. But quit thinking a DRAW will solve all the world problems!!! I didn’t invest thousands of dollars in gear over 40 years to MAYBE go hunting!!!Your saying the elk numbers are better in that unit then they were 10 , 15 , 20 years ago :rolleyes: Why are the Elk numbers down in ALL the neighboring units ? Why have Bull and cow tags been drastically cut in all these units in the past 20 years ?
Here is the problem, Washington does not have enough game to satisfy the hunting population numbers! Its been that way since I started hunting at 10 years old.
Yakima elk numbers are better than I have ever seen, I probably spend more time in that unit than most. So I think I would know if we were in a decline for elk.
I kill a buck almost every year in one of the yakima units.
You want wyoming, but in reality you live in Washington.
Eastside for me .
Thats exactly what I’m saying. Do you really believe harvest numbers?? Do you really think the state counts every elk? I would like to know why permits have been lowered myself..
Post by: raydog on March 07, 2024, 07:02:13 PM
Be interesting to add another poll of how many people this would even affect. Example when I lived in WA I never hunted the Westside. I wonder how many people there are that actually hunt both sides every year.I think there is a whole pile of dudes that hunt muley's but race back west to hunt the blacktail rut. Then if that doesn't pan out had Northeast to try and get a whitetail. I know quite a few guys who make the rounds each fall.
:yeah:
Yup...
I used to go over and hunt mulies then return home for the rut blacktail hunt. That was before the game department tried killing every doe/fawn in the methow.
Post by: raydog on March 07, 2024, 07:04:37 PM
Taco is right and you know it! My deer don't have big white butts! :chuckle:Karl, don't be jealous because we can carry our deer out on our backs whole.. :chuckle: :chuckle:Jesus! I'm thankful my jab at you blacktail boiz didn't go unnoticed :chuckle:
Easy side is for deer hunters that lack skill :chuckle:
Post by: hughjorgan on March 07, 2024, 07:17:53 PM
Do our mule deer have a serious problem in this state? YES they certainly do. But quit thinking a DRAW will solve all the world problems!!! I didn’t invest thousands of dollars in gear over 40 years to MAYBE go hunting!!!Your saying the elk numbers are better in that unit then they were 10 , 15 , 20 years ago :rolleyes: Why are the Elk numbers down in ALL the neighboring units ? Why have Bull and cow tags been drastically cut in all these units in the past 20 years ?
Here is the problem, Washington does not have enough game to satisfy the hunting population numbers! Its been that way since I started hunting at 10 years old.
Yakima elk numbers are better than I have ever seen, I probably spend more time in that unit than most. So I think I would know if we were in a decline for elk.
I kill a buck almost every year in one of the yakima units.
You want wyoming, but in reality you live in Washington.
Eastside for me .
Thats exactly what I’m saying. Do you really believe harvest numbers?? Do you really think the state counts every elk? I would like to know why permits have been lowered myself..
From reading the status and trends report for a few years they were below the 12 bulls to 100 cows and the harvest numbers of spikes harvested was low so with those two data points they decreased opportunity. In reality there numbers have been way off on cow to calf ratios being that our herd has been growing. A lot of their low counts came during our mild winters when the majority of the herd hasn’t come down to the feeding stations.
Post by: muleyslayer on March 07, 2024, 07:23:39 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on March 07, 2024, 07:23:48 PM
Post by: TommyH on March 07, 2024, 07:54:17 PM
Be interesting to add another poll of how many people this would even affect. Example when I lived in WA I never hunted the Westside. I wonder how many people there are that actually hunt both sides every year.Exactly, I’d imagine it’s 20-1 (that’s probably a low estimate) for people that come hunt east then head back to the Westside.. how many east siders go west to hunt black tail? Not many. I support the east/west choice, I do it for elk every year...
NE whitetail are a remnant of 10 years ago. I sure don’t think they are going to do what needs done which is reduce the predators, so distributing pressure may give deer a chance to rebound some. Will it work idk..?
Post by: kentrek on March 07, 2024, 11:20:04 PM
And open the lewit and spirit lake areas to any kind of restricted draw deer hunting...
Post by: Scruffy on March 08, 2024, 12:36:02 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 08, 2024, 05:12:20 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 08, 2024, 05:29:33 AM
Missing the "no Change" option
There isn't a "no change" option because the question is "if implemented, what side are you hunting?" :dunno:
Post by: C-Money on March 08, 2024, 06:18:34 AM
Post by: 300rum on March 08, 2024, 06:50:27 AM
I wouldn't mind hunting the westside, but never have.
Post by: JakeLand on March 08, 2024, 07:19:53 AM
Put all your hunting clothes on and stand in the shower on the coldest setting. After a few days of doing this you can look at a pic of a button buck on your phone.god I can’t wait to be chasing blacktails next year !!!I wouldn't mind hunting the westside, but never have.
Post by: walt on March 08, 2024, 08:26:49 AM
Post by: steeleywhopper on March 08, 2024, 08:50:35 AM
Post by: Sneaky Squirrel on March 08, 2024, 09:12:41 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 08, 2024, 09:15:29 AM
Post by: Bareback on March 08, 2024, 09:16:43 AM
Post by: LDennis24 on March 08, 2024, 09:18:59 AM
Post by: bornhunter on March 08, 2024, 09:25:21 AM
Post by: kentrek on March 08, 2024, 09:26:40 AM
For this to truly have the affect they are looking for they need to keep special hunt choices statewide regardless of East or west tag. We are so deep into our draw system, there has to be some concessions to its implementation :twocents:
I respectfully disagree, they just need to give west side some permit options both in buck & quality deer.
Post by: raydog on March 08, 2024, 09:29:10 AM
Post by: HillHound on March 08, 2024, 09:40:53 AM
Looks like my Wetside will have less of you fair weather hunters if this passes :IBCOOL:Until they make it draw only for mule deer and then everybody and their brother will be coming over to kill all your black tail because I’m sure as hell gonna be hunting deer every year not waiting around hoping to hunt one every two or three or five over here if that’s the way they go
Post by: James on March 08, 2024, 10:08:28 AM
I know some people on here have issue with multi season tags, but I am one of those that like to spend a lot of time in the field enjoying nature and finding animals regardless of the weapon in my hand, so I generally buy one.
Post by: Mtnwalker on March 08, 2024, 10:16:25 AM
If this passes I could see getting a multi season tag could be like the elk situation where it could be a decade or longer between drawing.
I know some people on here have issue with multi season tags, but I am one of those that like to spend a lot of time in the field enjoying nature and finding animals regardless of the weapon in my hand, so I generally buy one.
I can see the quota increasing too if they create more demand for the deer
Post by: 3nails on March 08, 2024, 10:32:56 AM
Westside and blacktail !! Make it 2 point minimum tooI'm with you on blacktail. However I'm not for the 2 pt minimum. Spikes are poor genetics and I'd like them to be removed. Less pressure on mature bucks too.
Post by: James on March 08, 2024, 10:55:55 AM
Anti's want us divided; tribal vs non tribal, bow vs rifle, this vs that. They don't care the dividing line, they know we are easier to defeat that way. While dividing East/West might seem small we don't have margins to give.
If some real data/models showing it really has a high likelihood of solving specific problems I will change my mind, but until such is presented I vote we keep the band together.
Post by: LDennis24 on March 08, 2024, 11:34:17 AM
Westside and blacktail !! Make it 2 point minimum tooI'm with you on blacktail. However I'm not for the 2 pt minimum. Spikes are poor genetics and I'd like them to be removed. Less pressure on mature bucks too.
You cannot hunt the genetics out of a deer herd :twocents:
Post by: baldopepper on March 08, 2024, 11:46:18 AM
Westside and blacktail !! Make it 2 point minimum tooI'm with you on blacktail. However I'm not for the 2 pt minimum. Spikes are poor genetics and I'd like them to be removed. Less pressure on mature bucks too.
Guess I'm kinda confused. Are you implying that big bucks were never spikes in their youth? Guess I've never seen a one year old 3 or 4 point .
Post by: BreezyBear on March 08, 2024, 12:24:18 PM
Post by: raydog on March 08, 2024, 12:29:03 PM
Looks like my Wetside will have less of you fair weather hunters if this passes :IBCOOL:Until they make it draw only for mule deer and then everybody and their brother will be coming over to kill all your black tail because I’m sure as hell gonna be hunting deer every year not waiting around hoping to hunt one every two or three or five over here if that’s the way they go
Let's just hope none of these pass, I'm only teasing by the way. I don't actually want east/west deer tags.
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 08, 2024, 02:20:46 PM
I really don't see a split in deer as a loss of opportunity. I see it more of increased success and decrease in pressure for everyone.... I'd figure you mule deer guys would love a decrease of 20-30 percent in tag applicant's and less "westsiders" ruining your methow mule deer hunts. :chuckle:
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 08, 2024, 06:17:50 PM
If this passes I could see getting a multi season tag could be like the elk situation where it could be a decade or longer between drawing.
I know some people on here have issue with multi season tags, but I am one of those that like to spend a lot of time in the field enjoying nature and finding animals regardless of the weapon in my hand, so I generally buy one.
The issue with MS permits is too much pressure on the critters, and better odds of killing one.
The idea of choosing a side, specie, or single weapon, is to reduce pressure on the animals. I'm all for all of these.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 08, 2024, 07:11:58 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 08, 2024, 07:49:28 PM
I really think we need to look at the bigger picture here.agree, you can see the division already happening in this thread when it comes to west v’s east. That’s why I hate this idea.
Anti's want us divided; tribal vs non tribal, bow vs rifle, this vs that. They don't care the dividing line, they know we are easier to defeat that way. While dividing East/West might seem small we don't have margins to give.
If some real data/models showing it really has a high likelihood of solving specific problems I will change my mind, but until such is presented I vote we keep the band together.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 08, 2024, 08:09:19 PM
I really think we need to look at the bigger picture here.agree, you can see the division already happening in this thread when it comes to west v’s east. That’s why I hate this idea.
Anti's want us divided; tribal vs non tribal, bow vs rifle, this vs that. They don't care the dividing line, they know we are easier to defeat that way. While dividing East/West might seem small we don't have margins to give.
If some real data/models showing it really has a high likelihood of solving specific problems I will change my mind, but until such is presented I vote we keep the band together.
So we can continue to disagree on this question but as long as it doesn't happen, we're not divided?
Post by: dmoua on March 08, 2024, 09:09:05 PM
Post by: Turner89 on March 09, 2024, 05:24:44 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 09, 2024, 05:55:21 AM
There is more pressure due to the increase in people hiking than there ever will be with MS permits. Deer can't tell if a person has a weapon or not. The key to increasing the deer population is survivability of the doe population.
I'll play, :}
Hikers don't kill deer.
Of course, deer don't know a person has a weapon, deer do not know what a weapon is. :chuckle: (or so us stupid humans believe)
If you kill all the bucks, will does become asexual?....increasing the pop. on their own.
if you want to INCREASE population, you need to decrease the current rate of deaths, by any, and all means, humans, predators, etc.
Post by: buckhorn2 on March 09, 2024, 07:40:53 AM
Post by: JBar on March 09, 2024, 08:30:06 AM
East, but take away multi season tags and make whitetail 4pt minimum.Give up almost 1.2 million in revenue :chuckle: mark my words if they go east/west the demand for multi season tags will skyrocket and they will increase them for the revenue!
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 09, 2024, 08:31:49 AM
If that works then let's do the same with the salmon and clams and bottom fish sure would work for us westside people
Well yeah, we would all just choose westside 🤷
Post by: Ironhead on March 09, 2024, 09:03:00 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on March 09, 2024, 09:09:56 AM
Why not just go to draw only for Mule Deer. It will eventually have to happen anyway. That way the West siders can still hunt both sides. East/West for Deer is futile. There are not enough animals to hunt OTC and have healthy herds.Been saying this for 10+ years.
Post by: buckfvr on March 09, 2024, 09:17:22 AM
East, but take away multi season tags and make whitetail 4pt minimum.
:yeah:
Post by: Ironhead on March 09, 2024, 09:58:24 AM
I have to keep throwing it out there!!!!Why not just go to draw only for Mule Deer. It will eventually have to happen anyway. That way the West siders can still hunt both sides. East/West for Deer is futile. There are not enough animals to hunt OTC and have healthy herds.
Been saying this for 10+ years.
Post by: hunter399 on March 09, 2024, 10:30:04 AM
East, but take away multi season tags and make whitetail 4pt minimum.
:yeah:
:yeah:
Yup,yup
Post by: Crowfeather on March 09, 2024, 03:41:51 PM
Post by: BUTTER on March 09, 2024, 03:44:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 09, 2024, 04:01:52 PM
Why not just go to draw only for Mule Deer. It will eventually have to happen anyway. That way the West siders can still hunt both sides. East/West for Deer is futile. There are not enough animals to hunt OTC and have healthy herds.
:yeah:
This is the answer.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 09, 2024, 05:54:06 PM
This petition asks the Fish and Wildlife Commission to initiate rulemaking to implement an area-specific deer tag that requires deer hunters to choose either an east or west hunt area, like the system currently used for elk. The petitioner asserts that the proposed system will increase deer abundance by reducing harvest, with a specific focus on northeast Washington white-tailed deer populations.
The Department has used area-specific elk tags to manage elk hunter densities since 1979. Though the east-west elk tag system has implications for elk harvest, the system was primarily implemented to resolve hunter crowding issues. Initially this system included multiple tag areas corresponding to individual or aggregated elk populations that ultimately transitioned to the east-west system in use today. Hunter crowding has higher potential during elk than deer seasons for a few reasons, namely that the number of hunters per elk is consistently higher than those per deer (currently about ~1:1 vs. 1:3, respectively) resulting in greater competition for elk than deer. Elk populations are also relatively more discrete than deer, which concentrates hunters and compounds the potential for hunter crowding. Historically this resulted in unacceptably high elk hunter densities in areas where hunters perceived a high potential for success, such as in the comparatively large and easily accessible populations of central and southeastern Washington. Elk general season timing was also more discrete (i.e., no overlap) than deer seasons between east and western Washington, as is the case today for modern firearm seasons. This provided some advantage to westside resident hunters that could hunt the earlier eastern season and, if unsuccessful, hunt again in a local western season, which created concerns about equitable opportunity.
An area-specific elk tag resolved crowding and equity issues in general seasons by distributing elk hunters and effort more uniformly. This system is also important for managing opportunity in the current special permit draw system. All elk special permit applications specify a tag type (i.e., east or west) and special permit applicants cannot change the tag type regardless of the draw outcome. Without this system we would expect more applicants from western Washington for the highly valued special permits in eastern Washington because, if unsuccessful in the draw, the applicant would likely hunt nearby in a general season (i.e., there is no tradeoff in their application choices). This would ultimately lead to reduced special permit draw odds and raise hunter concerns about equity and fairness.
Deer population abundance is partly a function of how many animals survive and therefore Department staff acknowledge that hunting has the potential to influence both mule and white-tailed deer population dynamics (i.e., how a population changes through time). However, deer population trajectory is predominantly due to variation in adult female survival. For that reason, the Department restricts most deer hunting to antlered male (i.e., “buck”) only opportunities to maximize female deer survival and ultimately promote population stability or growth. The Department restricts antlerless harvest opportunities, where available, as a function of population monitoring results. For example, if a population is trending downward contrary to management objectives the Department responds by proposing limitations on general season or special permit antlerless opportunities. Specific to the northeast part of the state (i.e., District 1, GMUs 101-121), the Department has restricted white- tailed deer harvest to antlered male only since 2019 and further restrictions to buck harvest opportunities are unlikely to change the population’s trajectory.
Further, a recent study (2017-2020) of white-tailed deer in northeast Washington did not identify harvest as a limiting factor to growth, though this study did identify a stable to slightly declining population suggesting that there are limitations to growth. Many independent and interactive non-hunting factors, such as outbreaks of hemorrhagic disease (in 2015 and 2021), changing land use practices, human encroachment, non-human predation, or changing climatic conditions (e.g., more frequent drought), are likely acting on Washington white- tailed deer and influencing their population dynamics.
For the above reasons, an east-west tag structure is unlikely to influence population trajectory, though it has the potential to reduce the harvest of east-side deer taken by western Washington hunters. From 2018-2022, about 49% of deer hunters with western Washington addresses consistently hunt only in western Washington, 27% consistently hunt only in eastern Washington, and 24% hunt some mixture of east and west. Western Washington residents account for approximately 32% of all eastern Washington deer harvest and approximately 25% of all white-tailed deer harvest. The Department expects that an east-west tag structure would result in some proportion of the “mixed-side” hunters choosing to hunt western Washington, but the reduction in harvest of eastern Washington deer may be nominal (i.e., single digit percentage decrease) and the reduced harvest by westside hunters may be nullified by increased success (i.e., harvest) of those hunters choosing an east-side tag.
The implementation of an east-west deer tag is a significant restrictive change to hunting opportunity and may be contrary to the preferred structure of most deer hunters. As such, the Department must conduct formal public scoping to understand and evaluate the implications of an area-specific deer tag on hunter participation and its potential consequences to deer harvest, which is not feasible prior to the current three-year package rulemaking process.
Staff recommendation:
Department staff recommend denying this petition because a) the requested rule change is unlikely to result in increased white-tailed deer populations, and b) the requested rule change has statewide implications and therefore requires extensive public scoping to evaluate its acceptability to all deer hunters
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/9-summary-sheet-petition-deer-tags.pdf
Post by: JakeLand on March 09, 2024, 06:33:06 PM
Post by: kentrek on March 09, 2024, 07:29:00 PM
Seems to me most hunters like and or want the idea of east/west tags
Hunters are typically always for more restrictions to give them a perceived advantage to the next guy
Post by: highside74 on March 09, 2024, 08:48:17 PM
Post by: elksnout on March 09, 2024, 08:54:09 PM
I do not believe that I’d support another of the thousand cuts to reduce hunter opportunities in this state unless there was a dedicated plan to help boost the overall health of our combined deer herds by science driven data. Yes. I’m pissing in the wind.
elksnout
Post by: JakeLand on March 10, 2024, 11:31:50 AM
All I'm saying is I'm all for 70% of the deer hunters going East as this poll would suggest. :tup: :IBCOOL:exactly !
Post by: hughjorgan on March 10, 2024, 12:09:52 PM
All I'm saying is I'm all for 70% of the deer hunters going East as this poll would suggest. :tup: :IBCOOL:exactly !
Based off the WDFW numbers this poll is not remotely accurate…
about 49% of deer hunters with western Washington addresses consistently hunt only in western Washington, 27% consistently hunt only in eastern Washington, and 24% hunt some mixture of east and west. Western Washington residents account for approximately 32% of all eastern Washington deer harvest and approximately 25% of all white-tailed deer harvest.
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 10, 2024, 12:54:35 PM
All I'm saying is I'm all for 70% of the deer hunters going East as this poll would suggest. :tup: :IBCOOL:exactly !
Based off the WDFW numbers this poll is not remotely accurate…
about 49% of deer hunters with western Washington addresses consistently hunt only in western Washington, 27% consistently hunt only in eastern Washington, and 24% hunt some mixture of east and west. Western Washington residents account for approximately 32% of all eastern Washington deer harvest and approximately 25% of all white-tailed deer harvest.
Guessing there is an over sampling on HuntWa of those Westsiders who choose Eastside as their primary deer hunt.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 10, 2024, 02:04:54 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2024, 08:58:07 AM
those numbers also don't account for the amount of west side guys that would choose east side simply due to applying for east side special permits.All I'm saying is I'm all for 70% of the deer hunters going East as this poll would suggest. :tup: :IBCOOL:exactly !
Based off the WDFW numbers this poll is not remotely accurate…
about 49% of deer hunters with western Washington addresses consistently hunt only in western Washington, 27% consistently hunt only in eastern Washington, and 24% hunt some mixture of east and west. Western Washington residents account for approximately 32% of all eastern Washington deer harvest and approximately 25% of all white-tailed deer harvest.
Guessing there is an over sampling on HuntWa of those Westsiders who choose Eastside as their primary deer hunt.
Post by: highcountry_hunter on March 11, 2024, 09:00:57 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: duckmen1 on March 11, 2024, 09:39:44 AM
Post by: SuperX on March 11, 2024, 10:09:50 AM
Post by: dvolmer on March 11, 2024, 11:47:02 AM
Post by: duckmen1 on March 11, 2024, 11:51:46 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 11, 2024, 12:03:19 PM
One thing I hear on opinion is east side guys don't like the fact that westside guys have the ability to capitalize on both eastern and western wa seasons. But one thought is eastside guys have the same ability to do so. They just don't because they don't know how to hunt as well as the westside folks do for the grey ghosts. That's why they choose to hunt those easy whitetails and mule deer only. That can be patterned much easier than blacktails. :chuckle:
And they melt in the rain..
Post by: raydog on March 11, 2024, 12:05:06 PM
And they can't shoot forkys because they're so used to counting to 3.One thing I hear on opinion is east side guys don't like the fact that westside guys have the ability to capitalize on both eastern and western wa seasons. But one thought is eastside guys have the same ability to do so. They just don't because they don't know how to hunt as well as the westside folks do for the grey ghosts. That's why they choose to hunt those easy whitetails and mule deer only. That can be patterned much easier than blacktails. :chuckle:
And they melt in the rain..
:chuckle:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2024, 12:12:50 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 11, 2024, 12:14:57 PM
I think most dedicated western wa deer hunters that currently make trips to the east side will continue to do so if that system ever took place in which it would make minimal difference. I personally want to keep the deer seasons how they are on the subject. And see other changes for deer.
It would benefit the blacktail then :dunno:
It's not an East vs West person discussion, it's an East vs. West deer discussion. The deer herd I choose to hunt is 3 hours away from me which is farther than some Westsiders go to hunt mule deer. If my preferred species (WT) were on the West, I'd chase them there. It's immaterial what side of the Cascades it is on except for the people who want to be a victim.
Post by: raydog on March 11, 2024, 12:30:04 PM
You guys are way off! We just like antlers that we can't fit in our pants pocket 8)
:chuckle: well played
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 11, 2024, 12:38:15 PM
You guys are way off! We just like antlers that we can't fit in our pants pocket 8)
Can't eat the antler's... :chuckle:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 11, 2024, 01:20:59 PM
it's true but you CAN eat whatever they are attached to :IBCOOL:You guys are way off! We just like antlers that we can't fit in our pants pocket 8)
Can't eat the antler's... :chuckle:
Post by: duckmen1 on March 11, 2024, 02:15:08 PM
it's true but you CAN eat whatever they are attached to :IBCOOL:You guys are way off! We just like antlers that we can't fit in our pants pocket 8)
Can't eat the antler's... :chuckle:
I say come to the west side and get some antlers that can’t fit into your pocket. :chuckle: Now that is an impressive hunter. We have a few on here that do just that on a yearly basis and I can say I look forward to seeing those posts every year. Very impressive. Seeing those old ghosts. For me though I am an east side hunter. I would love to do the program for the multiple seasons like some people posted. But haven’t been able to do the later seasons for blacktail due to have been being fortunate on the east side most years. But always look forward to going for blacktail after east side. Just doesn’t seem to happen. But one year I will have to do a blacktail season. Been many years since I truly designated going for blacktail. And would like to get a nice one.
Post by: kodiak06 on March 11, 2024, 05:01:57 PM
WDFW is floating the idea of going to an East/West structure for deer tag allocations like we have for elk currently. If that came to pass are you choosing east or west.
Are you blacktail guys giving up your east side permit applications for the love of those cute, little racked rainforest deer?
Eastside guys going Westside because you think the woods will be wide open with everyone choosing Eastside deer so they can still apply for the Entiat?
The mature cute lil' blacktails are harder to kill that a muley or WT. I'm hunting east if I have to pick... I'll hunt BT on the Or coast...
Post by: LDennis24 on March 13, 2024, 01:46:03 PM
You guys are way off! We just like antlers that we can't fit in our pants pocket 8)
Can't eat the antler's... :chuckle:
🤔
https://www.herbalnutritionhealth.com/product/aspen-antler-spray/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwncWvBhD_ARIsAEb2HW9EuygLaIilSqkYwu9l00MZahGQ6MlPvNZDAcEw1Q92QBb2QBJEDhIaAhvbEALw_wcB
It's made from real bits of antler, so you know it's good! And they say 60% of the time, it works every time!
Post by: Rainier10 on March 14, 2024, 09:34:38 AM
Commission will be discussing this petition tomorrow.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 14, 2024, 12:09:20 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 14, 2024, 12:38:57 PM
If they keep coming up with stupid laws that have zero to do with management, more and more of us will be labeled as criminals.... and divide us even more. Man, that almost sounds like an agenda.
This was generated by HUNTERS; not WDFW or even the commission. It is also not being recommended by the WDFW to be passed by the commission.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 14, 2024, 01:16:58 PM
well that’s good to hear, hopefully they don’t pass it.If they keep coming up with stupid laws that have zero to do with management, more and more of us will be labeled as criminals.... and divide us even more. Man, that almost sounds like an agenda.
This was generated by HUNTERS; not WDFW or even the commission. It is also not being recommended by the WDFW to be passed by the commission.
Post by: Martinhunter on March 15, 2024, 04:35:32 AM
Put all your hunting clothes on and stand in the shower on the coldest setting. After a few days of doing this you can look at a pic of a button buck on your phone.I wouldn't mind hunting the westside, but never have.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :yeah:
Post by: sjhgraysage on March 15, 2024, 09:01:08 AM
Post by: westsidehntr on March 15, 2024, 09:11:45 AM
Post by: hunter399 on March 15, 2024, 09:25:01 AM
Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....🤨
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.🤔
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
Post by: Mtnwalker on March 15, 2024, 09:26:05 AM
Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
:yeah: My buddies on the coast have told me they'll be done blacktail hunting and choose east if this goes into effect. Some of them don't even hunt the east side every year, but if it comes down to choosing that's what they'll pick. I don't think this will reduce any pressure on east side deer, if this was done before everything on the west side went pay to play it might have been a different story
Post by: westsidehntr on March 15, 2024, 09:55:45 AM
Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....🤨
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.🤔
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
You may want to consider what we are telling you and why we oppose it. We are saying: right now we sometimes hunt eastside, sometimes westside. If forced to pick, we will hunt ONLY eastside. So do you want more or less pressure on the herds which are suffering? This will INCREASE pressure on whitetail and mule deer.
So keep letting us double dip or we’re coming to take ALL your potato chips 😁
Post by: high_hunter on March 15, 2024, 10:42:00 AM
Populations are managed at the GMU level, not half of the state level. I think it is arbitrary and atrocious that this is already done for elk. :twocents:
I didn't take your poll but thanks for posting for the sake of discussion! :)
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 15, 2024, 11:07:16 AM
Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....🤨
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.🤔
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
You may want to consider what we are telling you and why we oppose it. We are saying: right now we sometimes hunt eastside, sometimes westside. If forced to pick, we will hunt ONLY eastside. So do you want more or less pressure on the herds which are suffering? This will INCREASE pressure on whitetail and mule deer.
So keep letting us double dip or we’re coming to take ALL your potato chips 😁
Sounds like I'd be heading West. Blacktail hunting the Westside is a hoot and not as hard as this thread indicates.
Post by: hunter399 on March 15, 2024, 01:13:52 PM
Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....🤨
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.🤔
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
You may want to consider what we are telling you and why we oppose it. We are saying: right now we sometimes hunt eastside, sometimes westside. If forced to pick, we will hunt ONLY eastside. So do you want more or less pressure on the herds which are suffering? This will INCREASE pressure on whitetail and mule deer.
So keep letting us double dip or we’re coming to take ALL your potato chips 😁
Sounds like I'd be heading West. Blacktail hunting the Westside is a hoot and not as hard as this thread indicates.
I'm ok with ya coming east.
That's not the problem.
Your coming east regardless,so why do you feel you should get to hunt blacktail when you get home.
After you couldn't get it done on the Eastside.
Post by: GOcougsHunter on March 15, 2024, 02:19:44 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on March 15, 2024, 03:28:54 PM
Post by: highcountry_hunter on March 15, 2024, 06:40:57 PM
This frickin guy I tell yaEastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
You may want to consider what we are telling you and why we oppose it. We are saying: right now we sometimes hunt eastside, sometimes westside. If forced to pick, we will hunt ONLY eastside. So do you want more or less pressure on the herds which are suffering? This will INCREASE pressure on whitetail and mule deer.
So keep letting us double dip or we’re coming to take ALL your potato chips
Sounds like I'd be heading West. Blacktail hunting the Westside is a hoot and not as hard as this thread indicates.
I'm ok with ya coming east.
That's not the problem.
Your coming east regardless,so why do you feel you should get to hunt blacktail when you get home.
After you couldn't get it done on the Eastside.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 15, 2024, 06:49:31 PM
Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....🤨
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.🤔
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
You may want to consider what we are telling you and why we oppose it. We are saying: right now we sometimes hunt eastside, sometimes westside. If forced to pick, we will hunt ONLY eastside. So do you want more or less pressure on the herds which are suffering? This will INCREASE pressure on whitetail and mule deer.
So keep letting us double dip or we’re coming to take ALL your potato chips 😁
Sounds like I'd be heading West. Blacktail hunting the Westside is a hoot and not as hard as this thread indicates.
I'm ok with ya coming east.
That's not the problem.
Your coming east regardless,so why do you feel you should get to hunt blacktail when you get home.
After you couldn't get it done on the Eastside.
I am East, you goof, as indicated by my profile location and the fact that I said I would "head" West.
Post by: TriggerMike on March 15, 2024, 07:38:13 PM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on March 15, 2024, 07:38:23 PM
Post by: hunter399 on March 15, 2024, 07:54:21 PM
Honestly I believe it would of helped both sides.Eastside guys may want to be careful what they ask for. IMO this would concentrate a lot more hunters on the eastside, especially during any over the counter late seasons. If westside guys are forced to pick a side, many may pick east that normally would primarily hunt west just because it’s easier. But when forced to pick, will pick the better opportunity of the east side.
Ya we should be careful.....🤨
Yet majority that oppose the idea are from the west.🤔
No matter what side we are on,what's best for deer herds statewide should be priority.
Double dip potatoe chip comes to mind.
You may want to consider what we are telling you and why we oppose it. We are saying: right now we sometimes hunt eastside, sometimes westside. If forced to pick, we will hunt ONLY eastside. So do you want more or less pressure on the herds which are suffering? This will INCREASE pressure on whitetail and mule deer.
So keep letting us double dip or we’re coming to take ALL your potato chips 😁
Sounds like I'd be heading West. Blacktail hunting the Westside is a hoot and not as hard as this thread indicates.
I'm ok with ya coming east.
That's not the problem.
Your coming east regardless,so why do you feel you should get to hunt blacktail when you get home.
After you couldn't get it done on the Eastside.
I am East, you goof, as indicated by my profile location and the fact that I said I would "head" West.
You can't double dip the potatoe chips and believe there's going to be a whole bowl of dip left when your done.
I'll go back to lurking for now.
Good discussion anyway.
Later.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 15, 2024, 09:42:32 PM
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/9-presentation-petition-eastside-westside-deer-tagspptx.pdf
Post by: kodiak06 on March 19, 2024, 10:38:07 AM
Here is the presentation WDFW did on the petition… there is a pie chart showing the breakdown of western wa and eastern wa hunters. Only 24 percent have hunted both sides in their data presented as of late. 97 percent that reside on the east side only hunt there. It would have made virtually no impact being that WDFW stated does were the controlling factor in deer numbers for whitetails and they mitigated that factor by eliminating doe permits.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-03/9-presentation-petition-eastside-westside-deer-tagspptx.pdf
Seems accurate. The harvest numbers aren't accurate anyway due to individuals biting the small fee for not reporting. It's a game of keeping unit specific harvest percentages low, makes sense from a hunter standpoint.
Post by: baldopepper on March 19, 2024, 12:37:42 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 19, 2024, 01:45:04 PM