Post by: boneaddict on April 25, 2024, 10:12:12 AM
I can’t seem to share the link. 25 bears. 5 to 7 over next 10 years. ( you do the math)
Post by: knighttime25 on April 25, 2024, 10:52:54 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on April 25, 2024, 10:56:36 AM
Post by: SWHUNTER on April 25, 2024, 10:57:42 AM
One way or another I just don't see this working out very good. Tons of people out in the mountains now days. You know they will close down access to certain areas because of this.
Good thing they had all those public meetings...
Post by: 1Guy on April 25, 2024, 11:02:56 AM
Post by: 1Guy on April 25, 2024, 11:27:34 AM
(Where was the vote For this?) it’s not we the people anymore.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 25, 2024, 11:56:16 AM
Post by: RB on April 25, 2024, 01:23:37 PM
Post by: Angry Perch on April 25, 2024, 01:45:02 PM
"The bears served as a key part of the North Cascades ecosystem, distributing native plant seeds..."
C'mon guys, who doesn't want more blueberries?!! :rolleyes:
Post by: Duckslayer89 on April 25, 2024, 04:18:23 PM
Post by: JakeLand on April 25, 2024, 05:09:39 PM
Post by: Loup Loup on April 25, 2024, 06:42:00 PM
To see what the grizzly bear recovery zone will look like all one has to do is look at the area around the Salmo Preist wilderness area on the Colville NF.
Entire road systems have been not only closed to entry, but rototilled into oblivion.
If not destroyed other roads have seasonal closures: ,the bear pasture road, which closes for the year August 14th. These closures have created a huge buffer around the wilderness area. Shutting off access to historical hunting, and berry picking areas.
Once the bear is on the ground, once the road systems have been destroyed there is no going back.
The same is true of restrictions enacted “for” Lynx, mountain fox, fisher, Wolverine,wolf, western grey squirrel and any other specie the animal cult people, either employed by government agency’s, or imposter private agency’s can manufacture the statistics of their studies to advance.
The Mountain caribou was in the way of their perfect predator agenda and was culled as a specie in Washington State.
Post by: snake on April 25, 2024, 07:03:43 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 25, 2024, 07:34:31 PM
The money being used for this would have been better used for improving trails, trail head parking, bathroom facilities, and staff to help with the over use of all trails along highway 20. Anyone that has driven over the North Cascades in the fall the last five years can attest to this. Back in the late 90's there would barely be a car or two parked along the highway. Last fall when coming home in mid October from Eastern Washington the line of cars by the trail heads was nearly a mile in both directions. It just baffles me that any "biologist" would think this is a good idea. Yes, the odds of getting mauled are very low, I have hunted around them and they are very smart, and keep away for the most part. The issue is the amount of people and all the food they will bring with them. Yellowstone is four times bigger than North Cascades, and they have issues out side the park, how will this be different?
Having bears that eat the seed eaters is cheaper than building trails and much better for the environment. I’m actually surprised that for how much I hear people complaining about the amount of non hunters in the woods that they are also complaining about one of the only things that will reduce the amount of non hunters in the woods.
I say bring on the bears. For us who spend thousands to hunt in grizzly country in Montana and Alaska I see all this complaining as people who just don’t understand the real threat to the future of hunting. It’s not the bears, it’s the liberals and this is our only defense to the liberals. IMO
Post by: MADMAX on April 25, 2024, 07:53:09 PM
I hope they stick to a granola diet.....
Spandex gets there attention
You’ve been warned
🤣
Post by: high_hunter on April 25, 2024, 09:49:40 PM
https://www.nps.gov/noca/learn/news/agencies-announce-decision-to-restore-grizzly-bears-to-north-cascades.htm
I particularly was surprisedby this made up sounding category "Under the decision, grizzly bears in the North Cascades will be designated as a nonessential experimental population under section 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act."
and note they don't specify how many were for, against, or neutral... " Public feedback played a key role in the decision. During the fall 2023 public comment period, more than 12,000 comments were received on both the draft Environmental Impact Statement and a proposed 10(j) rule."
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 26, 2024, 05:18:06 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on April 26, 2024, 05:34:22 AM
Post by: Loup Loup on April 26, 2024, 06:47:34 AM
They will be problem bears they want to relocate from others areas. Bears that have already got in trouble living too close to people.
Also when they dump them out they don’t tie an anchor to their arse. They can and will show up anywhere. Course they’ll spend $100,000s on each bear trying to monitor it and attempt to herd it around.
Post by: nwwanderer on April 26, 2024, 07:17:48 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on April 26, 2024, 07:22:21 AM
Post by: Southpole on April 26, 2024, 08:04:41 AM
Post by: Southpole on April 26, 2024, 08:09:40 AM
Post by: mcrawfordaf on April 26, 2024, 08:17:35 AM
Post by: bigmacc on April 26, 2024, 08:36:45 AM
My dad made a good point along time ago The People who are doing this Don’t want you to have guns and they want the predators take care of the elk and deer so you don’t have to but this one might come back to bite them literally, there is hundreds if not, thousands of people up there hiking every summer.My dad came to the same conclusion. All pieces of the bigger puzzle to eventually do away with hunting, then even more restrictive gun ownership laws. Remember what party is and has been in charge while all this has been taking place in this state. Whether some don’t want to believe it or not, what we see happening regarding wolves, grizzly and the coddleing of all predators in general is political and are all being used to accomplish other agendas down the road.
(Where was the vote For this?) it’s not we the people anymore.
Post by: duckmen1 on April 26, 2024, 08:47:40 AM
Whistler is constantly shutting down trails due to Grizzlies. Last year they had bears just roaming towns in BC.
Whistler has always been loaded with bears. Counted 19 bears both Grizzly and Black bear on last trip in just a couple days. Wild to be coming down a trail and come face to face with so many bears.
Post by: boneaddict on April 26, 2024, 08:58:53 AM
My dad made a good point along time ago The People who are doing this Don’t want you to have guns and they want the predators take care of the elk and deer so you don’t have to but this one might come back to bite them literally, there is hundreds if not, thousands of people up there hiking every summer.My dad came to the same conclusion. All pieces of the bigger puzzle to eventually do away with hunting, then even more restrictive gun ownership laws. Remember what party is and has been in charge while all this has been taking place in this state. Whether some don’t want to believe it or not, what we see happening regarding wolves, grizzly and the coddleing of all predators in general is political and are all being used to accomplish other agendas down the road.
(Where was the vote For this?) it’s not we the people anymore.
We sure had some smart old men. This was preached to me my whole life
Post by: boneaddict on April 26, 2024, 09:03:48 AM
You have a whole new mindset when in grizz country.
THere will be lots of implications from this, including mandatory bear containers, coolers etc, closed areas and more
Post by: ducks4days on April 26, 2024, 10:11:28 AM
Here is the NPS article I read this evening:
https://www.nps.gov/noca/learn/news/agencies-announce-decision-to-restore-grizzly-bears-to-north-cascades.htm
I particularly was surprisedby this made up sounding category "Under the decision, grizzly bears in the North Cascades will be designated as a nonessential experimental population under section 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act."
and note they don't specify how many were for, against, or neutral... " Public feedback played a key role in the decision. During the fall 2023 public comment period, more than 12,000 comments were received on both the draft Environmental Impact Statement and a proposed 10(j) rule."
Did anybody here go to the public event in Darrington? If the public comments were in support of or split close to 50/50 they would be broadcasting it from the rooftops. The introduction is not popular outside of seattle metro and they went ahead with it anyway. Its like they held the 3 public comment events just to get peoples "permission" which never really mattered ikn the first place. They should have saved everybody the gas money and effort and just told us to kiss their asses from the start.
Post by: vandeman17 on April 26, 2024, 10:14:28 AM
Here is the NPS article I read this evening:
https://www.nps.gov/noca/learn/news/agencies-announce-decision-to-restore-grizzly-bears-to-north-cascades.htm
I particularly was surprisedby this made up sounding category "Under the decision, grizzly bears in the North Cascades will be designated as a nonessential experimental population under section 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act."
and note they don't specify how many were for, against, or neutral... " Public feedback played a key role in the decision. During the fall 2023 public comment period, more than 12,000 comments were received on both the draft Environmental Impact Statement and a proposed 10(j) rule."
Did anybody here go to the public event in Darrington? If the public comments were in support of or split close to 50/50 they would be broadcasting it from the rooftops. The introduction is not popular outside of seattle metro and they went ahead with it anyway. Its like they held the 3 public comment events just to get peoples "permission" which never really mattered ikn the first place. They should have saved everybody the gas money and effort and just told us to kiss their asses from the start.
I went to a public session in Cashmere a few years ago when this came out. I spoke as well as left a long report on a feedback survey people took. I talked to a handful of people who were there and not a single person was in favor of it and not one person that spoke was either...
Post by: MtnMuley on April 26, 2024, 10:21:13 AM
Let the maulings begin........
Post by: SWHUNTER on April 26, 2024, 10:56:34 AM
Post by: SWHUNTER on April 26, 2024, 11:04:29 AM
Post by: chukardogs on April 26, 2024, 11:37:29 AM
Post by: bigmacc on April 26, 2024, 11:40:24 AM
THey are already here, and if the land would have supported more, it already would have. As an apex predator, their only enemy is themselves basically. THere just isnt enough food for them. What could go wrong with a bunch of starving grizz running around?Your spot on bone👍
You have a whole new mindset when in grizz country.
THere will be lots of implications from this, including mandatory bear containers, coolers etc, closed areas and more
Post by: bigmacc on April 26, 2024, 11:46:13 AM
Yep, for those of you who don’t think this is all politically driven to support agendas, think again. It’s exactly why many of us have said for a long time, if you enjoy hunting, if you enjoy shooting sports, if you enjoy being free of overreaching gun laws……there’s one political party in general who is not your friend. Plain and simple.Here is the NPS article I read this evening:
https://www.nps.gov/noca/learn/news/agencies-announce-decision-to-restore-grizzly-bears-to-north-cascades.htm
I particularly was surprisedby this made up sounding category "Under the decision, grizzly bears in the North Cascades will be designated as a nonessential experimental population under section 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act."
and note they don't specify how many were for, against, or neutral... " Public feedback played a key role in the decision. During the fall 2023 public comment period, more than 12,000 comments were received on both the draft Environmental Impact Statement and a proposed 10(j) rule."
Did anybody here go to the public event in Darrington? If the public comments were in support of or split close to 50/50 they would be broadcasting it from the rooftops. The introduction is not popular outside of seattle metro and they went ahead with it anyway. Its like they held the 3 public comment events just to get peoples "permission" which never really mattered ikn the first place. They should have saved everybody the gas money and effort and just told us to kiss their asses from the start.
I went to a public session in Cashmere a few years ago when this came out. I spoke as well as left a long report on a feedback survey people took. I talked to a handful of people who were there and not a single person was in favor of it and not one person that spoke was either...
Post by: nwwanderer on April 26, 2024, 11:51:15 AM
Post by: bigmacc on April 26, 2024, 11:55:32 AM
The overwhelming opposition at those meetings was completely useless in their decision making as most of us knew it would be. Their agenda was already set in stone.Truth.👍
Let the maulings begin........
As some have said, grizz (like wolves) have been here off and on bouncing around for ever. If they loved places like the Methow for example they would have set up shop on their own, they wouldn’t need to be brought in, transplanted or “introduced “. This has got horrible implications for not only our deer and elk herds but for hunters, hikers and other outdoor recreationists. Now your head doesn’t just need to be on a swivel for wolves and cats but now grizzly.
Post by: boneaddict on April 26, 2024, 12:03:52 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 26, 2024, 12:12:07 PM
The north cascades is one of the original areas identified in the ESA plan for grizzly bear recovery as it was laid out 40 years ago and the environmentalist will use it to stop hunting even if it means some of their seed eating, REI loving friends are sacrificed.
Post by: TommyH on April 26, 2024, 12:24:44 PM
Post by: boneaddict on April 26, 2024, 12:36:49 PM
Post by: ducks4days on April 26, 2024, 12:40:04 PM
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.12.035
If I know the commission, and I like to think I do just a little bit, that law won’t stop them because they don’t know how to read.
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 26, 2024, 12:49:19 PM
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.12.035
If I know the commission, and I like to think I do just a little bit, that law won’t stop them because they don’t know how to read.
This law will not stop the current action because the state is not the ones behind what is happening. This is being conducted by the feds on federal land. But it does show how the state did attempt to stop it going back to the mid ninety’s.
Just like with the wolves, the states tried to stop the feds but the the feds have supremacy in these cases and they do not care how many citizens of the state or legislators in a state squawk about it as it will happen when they say it will happen.
Post by: hunter399 on April 26, 2024, 12:53:24 PM
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.12.035
If I know the commission, and I like to think I do just a little bit, that law won’t stop them because they don’t know how to read.
Wow TommyH that's crazy, awesome find there.
I also agree with duck4days ,it's not that they can't read.
But they believe they are above the law.
Or change the laws at there will.
Wife and I where just discussing the effects on native grizzly.
Since there blasting the local news with bringing them in.
Post by: powderbounder on April 26, 2024, 07:55:04 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 26, 2024, 08:07:49 PM
This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
Post by: Southpole on April 26, 2024, 08:31:20 PM
Because not every hunter or even non hunters are physically capable of hiking miles in to enjoy the outdoors.This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
Post by: Houndhunter on April 26, 2024, 08:47:59 PM
Because not every hunter or even non hunters are physically capable of hiking miles in to enjoy the outdoors.This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
That and how many more "roadless" areas does this state really need? Plus the trend seems to be once it's gone, she's gone for good.
Post by: nwwanderer on April 27, 2024, 10:16:27 AM
Post by: JWBINX on April 27, 2024, 11:20:36 AM
by the white man. I say bring them back .
99 percent of the people on this site will never be far enough from a road to encounter one.
It might even keep the REI crowd on their toes.
Post by: TriggerMike on April 27, 2024, 02:51:42 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on April 27, 2024, 03:23:22 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 27, 2024, 03:37:02 PM
Because not every hunter or even non hunters are physically capable of hiking miles in to enjoy the outdoors.This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
That and how many more "roadless" areas does this state really need? Plus the trend seems to be once it's gone, she's gone for good.
The roads and people are a far bigger cause for the low wildlife populations than the presence of predators. Look at Alaska and Canada if you think I’m wrong or where Washington was 400 years ago. If you don’t create more escapement for the wildlife along with better habitat the populations will continue to decline regardless of the presence of bears.
Post by: Ingwe on April 27, 2024, 08:11:06 PM
Post by: bigmacc on April 27, 2024, 09:49:12 PM
Well, I have a pretty good family history revolving around Alaska. You’re right, not alot of roads, lots of predators, not alot of people. The territory is HUGE. Lots of room for predators, prey and people. This state is at the verge of being tapped out as far as predators, prey and humans all coexisting. We’re not living in a time where this state can handle much more, let alone 400 years ago. Grizzly, cougars, wolves are going to make a big impact on the landscape of this state. It won’t be positive if you’re a hiker, biker, pet owner, rancher, hunter or a rural land owner. We are not in a world or state that existed 400years ago. You can create all the escapement you want, we can’t turn back the clock 400 years, all these predators on the landscape of today in a state like Washington is going to be catastrophic for some user groups and deadly for others. My opinion.Because not every hunter or even non hunters are physically capable of hiking miles in to enjoy the outdoors.This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
That and how many more "roadless" areas does this state really need? Plus the trend seems to be once it's gone, she's gone for good.
The roads and people are a far bigger cause for the low wildlife populations than the presence of predators. Look at Alaska and Canada if you think I’m wrong or where Washington was 400 years ago. If you don’t create more escapement for the wildlife along with better habitat the populations will continue to decline regardless of the presence of bears.
Post by: Night goat on April 28, 2024, 06:52:48 AM
S.S.S. >:( a good big ol magnet and a locomotive will take care of any radio collars one might stumble across :tup:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna149558
Post by: Southpole on April 28, 2024, 07:17:04 AM
Comparing Alaska to Washington’s wildlife is like comparing apples to oranges. Washington had a robust deer and elk population before hound hunting was outlawed, most logging roads were wide open and no wolves yet. Now there’s an over population of cougars, black bears and wolves, roads are gated or decommissioned, less deer and elk permits given and a glaringly obvious decline in elk and deer populations. How do you explain that?Because not every hunter or even non hunters are physically capable of hiking miles in to enjoy the outdoors.This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
That and how many more "roadless" areas does this state really need? Plus the trend seems to be once it's gone, she's gone for good.
The roads and people are a far bigger cause for the low wildlife populations than the presence of predators. Look at Alaska and Canada if you think I’m wrong or where Washington was 400 years ago. If you don’t create more escapement for the wildlife along with better habitat the populations will continue to decline regardless of the presence of bears.
Post by: Feathernfurr on April 28, 2024, 08:08:15 AM
We rarely find carcasses, the berries and veg are abundant and the bears would rather lay on their butt all day and eat the stuff that doesn’t run away. I think they absolutely have an impact on ungulates, but not nearly as much as wolves and cats. They’re the only species killing black bear cubs. I think black bears have a larger impact on the prey honestly.
Impact with users and cattle will definitely happen, but grizzly wont be the end of Washington’s deer and elk. Management will likely be the bigger impact. People are always up in arms about cattle, but I’ll tell you right now that most states are keeping elk populations at low objectives because of conflict from cattle farmers. In all honesty, I despise a cattle farmer. I’ve watched them absolutely decimate honey holes that used to hold hundreds of elk, while they pay pennies per acre to free graze on public land, cause soil compaction that won’t recover in my or my children’s lifetime.
I eat a steak here and there, but I eat more elk. I’d take hills full of elk over a cattle farm any day of the week.
Post by: Southpole on April 28, 2024, 08:30:10 AM
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 28, 2024, 08:55:20 AM
Comparing Alaska to Washington’s wildlife is like comparing apples to oranges. Washington had a robust deer and elk population before hound hunting was outlawed, most logging roads were wide open and no wolves yet. Now there’s an over population of cougars, black bears and wolves, roads are gated or decommissioned, less deer and elk permits given and a glaringly obvious decline in elk and deer populations. How do you explain that?Because not every hunter or even non hunters are physically capable of hiking miles in to enjoy the outdoors.This will close a ton of land down. May want to take pics of your hunting grounds now. You won’t be hunting it in afew years. I almost bet any roads that wash away now won’t be replaced. Pretty F’n sad.
How is this any different than what has been happening in areas without bears? The 74 road outside of Greenwater got washed out in 08 and it has never been and will never be replaced. Thousands of acres are slated for return to nature and removal of roads regardless of bear reintroduction.
Why are so many hunters upset about roads getting removed and giving more roadless areas for all animals?
That and how many more "roadless" areas does this state really need? Plus the trend seems to be once it's gone, she's gone for good.
The roads and people are a far bigger cause for the low wildlife populations than the presence of predators. Look at Alaska and Canada if you think I’m wrong or where Washington was 400 years ago. If you don’t create more escapement for the wildlife along with better habitat the populations will continue to decline regardless of the presence of bears.
The decline in habitat and the lice that killed the deer in the early 2000’s. Hound hunting got banned at the same time they stopped logging on federal ground which lead to the decrease in food for the deer and elk. That was followed by the lice wiping out the deer and then came hood rot for the elk.
Post by: Meathunter06 on April 28, 2024, 11:13:36 AM
S.S.S. >:( a good big ol magnet and a locomotive will take care of any radio collars one might stumble across :tup:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna149558
[/quote] :yeah: :bfg:
Post by: chukardogs on April 28, 2024, 11:18:18 AM
Some are saying they hunt in places with Grizzlys and it's great because there's no people. Every thing in the ecosystem is as it's supposed to be. Well super, I went with a couple buddies to the Arctic a couple years back and got dumped 50 miles out in the middle of no where to live for eleven days with Wolves, Wolverines, Grizzly bears and Caribou. Guess how many people we saw? They're two completely different situations! There are places where Grizzlys, Wolves, Wolverines and such can live in peace. The Cascades just ain't one of them. What's the use of putting animals in places where in the end you'll just have to take the most extreme actions to remove some of them because some moron couldn't do without his or her donuts.
Grizzly bears in the Cascades makes absolutely no sense. How long will it take for a Grizzly to find places like Stehekin, Trinity, Liberty, Holden and many more where humans have garbage piling up? This decision has a myriad of ramifications for a lot of people.
I suppose the people of the state will learn their lessons, cede more land that they can recreate on until someone has to say, well this idea was a big failure. Hunters will pay more for fewer opportunities and more will just say screw it.
I always hear follow the money. Who benefits from this? Firearm and bear spray companies and outdoor outfitters that can take groups into the wilds under the guise of offering protection will see a boon. I can't think of another group including the Grizzlys that won't take a hit. Anyone been to Canada lately and driven from Lake Louise to Jasper? Those fences along the hiway aren't for show. They're electric and expensive!
Insanity prevails again!
Post by: bigmacc on April 28, 2024, 12:55:55 PM
Post by: timberfaller on April 28, 2024, 01:51:09 PM
You can't reason with them, they think they are building back better AKA: Utopia!
I've read the first ones coming, will be released into Chelan County!!
But hey, keep voting for D's, you'll get what you voted for!!
Post by: timberfaller on April 28, 2024, 01:54:53 PM
The man had dairy and beef cattle while he lived there, killed a grizzly from the front porch. Seen the pictures after I got to know him.
No worry's, Chelan County is going to get the first shipment!
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 28, 2024, 01:56:25 PM
Read this article right after the survey article stating the states wolf population has grown by an average of 23% since 2008. What a mess this state has become :o
More like 23% per year.
Post by: O. Nerka on April 28, 2024, 02:02:06 PM
Hey bigmacc, you know the junction of Hwy 20 and Mazama? The big white house and who used to live there?Do you know roughly when that would have been? 1940s?
The man had dairy and beef cattle while he lived there, killed a grizzly from the front porch. Seen the pictures after I got to know him.
No worry's, Chelan County is going to get the first shipment!
Post by: bigmacc on April 28, 2024, 02:45:27 PM
Hey bigmacc, you know the junction of Hwy 20 and Mazama? The big white house and who used to live there?No I don’t know who it was faller, I did hear the story a few times though but never seen any pictures.
The man had dairy and beef cattle while he lived there, killed a grizzly from the front porch. Seen the pictures after I got to know him.
No worry's, Chelan County is going to get the first shipment!
My dad, myself and another partner are 99 percent sure we seen one back in the 80,s up around Andrews, had all the characteristics and looks of a grizzly but it wouldn’t slow down to get a good look. We were so sure it was a grizzly that we didn’t take a shot although we had 3 bear tags between us. We watched that thing go across a hillside at about 300-350 yards, we all studied him with good glass at the time and nobody wanted to squeeze one off. It was that “iffy”.
As some know, my dad practically grew up in Alaska, between my grandparents having some fishing interests up there that he helped with when he was younger to the time he spent up there building the pipeline. He seen plenty of bears from black bear, grizz, Kodiaks and even polar bears. We also are pretty sure we seen one up on the old Stockdrive up above Pearrygin one year(70 or 71), that one was standing in a thicket, couldn’t get a good look at his body but what we could see of his head/face, it was big and dished, once again, enough doubt that we didn’t shoot.
Like I and others have said, I think they’ve been here and there for a long, long time, bouncing back and forth from BC etc. if they like it here, they’ll stay. I don’t think we need to be trucking them in. Bad, bad idea imo.
There’s a reason they don’t stay and set up shop, we’re messing with Mother Nature and under the circumstances in this state it’s probably going to end badly for them, our deer herds(another fawn killer added to the landscape) and humans unfortunately. But hey, there’s agendas at play politically that are not friendly towards hunting in this state, this is another nail in that coffin. That’s why I tell folks, voting D in this state is not a good vote for hunting or gun ownership, just sit back and contemplate what’s happened during Inslees reign concerning hunting, predators and gun ownership.
Sorry to make it political but the state made our hunting opportunities “political” along time ago.
Post by: Mudman on April 28, 2024, 06:04:16 PM
Post by: Sandberm on April 29, 2024, 10:30:12 AM
Post by: dwils233 on April 29, 2024, 12:20:31 PM
Any truth to the rumor that Inslee is proposing to designate a portion of the north Cascades, The Timothy Treadmill Wilderness?
There can't be. It's federal land and only the federal legislature or president can designate federal lands to be Wilderness or anything else
Post by: wolfbait on April 30, 2024, 06:50:56 AM
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/04/26/wyoming-bears-could-be-used-for-reintroduction-to-washington-state/
Well at least the USFWS and WDFW won't have to do their sneak releases anymore, can you say problem bears.....
Post by: ducks4days on April 30, 2024, 10:08:21 AM
Post by: timberfaller on April 30, 2024, 11:28:14 AM
Hey bigmacc, you know the junction of Hwy 20 and Mazama? The big white house and who used to live there?Do you know roughly when that would have been? 1940s?
The man had dairy and beef cattle while he lived there, killed a grizzly from the front porch. Seen the pictures after I got to know him.
No worry's, Chelan County is going to get the first shipment!
I believe is was pre-40's, back in those days, all the "old-timers" I had discussions with claimed there was very little wildlife to chase in the valley. It wasn't until the county took over management did most hunt-able wildlife start to become abundant.
:tup: :tup: Bigmacc!
Post by: Mudman on April 30, 2024, 03:27:36 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 30, 2024, 04:04:30 PM
We all had one up north of Republic about 7 years ago. But that isnt really new news up there. Wyoming bears are pretty damn mean. This will be disaster and devastation in slow motion. No winners.Truth! Those WY grizz don’t give two chits! They guys that took me in 14 miles in the wilderness showed me their video of them shooting .300 mags at a grizz’s feet, he just looked at them and slowly walked away. We slept w pistols under our pillows.
Post by: mcrawfordaf on May 02, 2024, 08:03:23 AM
Post by: James on May 02, 2024, 08:55:00 AM
-One of the proposed release sites has the PCT trail going though the middle of it.
-They are all quick walk to Ross and Baker lake.
It's like they want to turn hippies into Griz treats.
Post by: Hirt on May 02, 2024, 09:01:03 AM
Post by: James on May 02, 2024, 10:33:25 AM
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think it will be kind of cool to have them in the state. They are already in the NE corner, so I am not following why it's such a big deal.
I too used to be for it, but have since changed my mind for these reasons:
-While I haven't read every page of this one, the last couple were far lighter on science than they should be. Lots of handwaving about "we killed them off, it's our duty to put them back" instead of science.
-High chance of failure, we have griz roll in and out of WA as they please but they really don't stick around. If WA was good griz habitat they would stay, so it's a pretty big ahole move to air drop these bears into places they don't want to be. I bet most will either bail out of WA, become problem bears, or die.
-We have a wonderful black bear population, no doubt if they stick around thats going to be hurt.
-Look at the human, road, and trail density of WA vs WY, it is going to be impossible for these things to stay out of trouble.
-Look at what they think acceptable Griz habitat is, Cle Elum for god sakes.
-Look at the proposed release sites, PTC trail, Baker, Ross lake. So many people, it's like they want to feed the bears hippies.
-The Anti's are going to screw us with this.
-Griz are a pain in the butt, that's just a fact. It's really nice to be in the Cascades and not have to worry about much.
-We have so many more pressing wildlife and wildplace issues to spend time and money on.
It's very annoying they can't see what they are doing to these Griz are not just a giant a hole move to the bears, but probably a death sentence to many. I have a feeling these so called Griz advocates are really just using them as a pawn and don't care about the bears at all.
If they do stick around, I am looking forward to the Youtube videos of Griz killing elk in Suncadia in front of the type of people that like to spend time in Suncadia. It will be better than the Estes Park videos.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 02, 2024, 10:59:14 AM
Post by: Hirt on May 02, 2024, 11:17:12 AM
I too used to be for it, but have since changed my mind for these reasons:
-While I haven't read every page of this one, the last couple were far lighter on science than they should be. Lots of handwaving about "we killed them off, it's our duty to put them back" instead of science.
-High chance of failure, we have griz roll in and out of WA as they please but they really don't stick around. If WA was good griz habitat they would stay, so it's a pretty big ahole move to air drop these bears into places they don't want to be. I bet most will either bail out of WA, become problem bears, or die.
-We have a wonderful black bear population, no doubt if they stick around thats going to be hurt.
-Look at the human, road, and trail density of WA vs WY, it is going to be impossible for these things to stay out of trouble.
-Look at what they think acceptable Griz habitat is, Cle Elum for god sakes.
-Look at the proposed release sites, PTC trail, Baker, Ross lake. So many people, it's like they want to feed the bears hippies.
-The Anti's are going to screw us with this.
-Griz are a pain in the butt, that's just a fact. It's really nice to be in the Cascades and not have to worry about much.
-We have so many more pressing wildlife and wildplace issues to spend time and money on.
It's very annoying they can't see what they are doing to these Griz are not just a giant a hole move to the bears, but probably a death sentence to many. I have a feeling these so called Griz advocates are really just using them as a pawn and don't care about the bears at all.
If they do stick around, I am looking forward to the Youtube videos of Griz killing elk in Suncadia in front of the type of people that like to spend time in Suncadia. It will be better than the Estes Park videos.
[/quote]
Good points. I too was confused at the locations they had picked out. Conflict will happen, either with black bears or people. At least for now they are in a non-essential, experimental status, so problem bears can be removed. I am not sure many people on both sides realize that.
I do recognize that there needs to be a balance between development and nature. Repopulating extirpated species back into their original range is something I generally support. But the support needs to be from the locals where the animals are going. Is the main issue the fact that grizzlies are apex predators in nature? What if the federal government wanted to place bison back into their original range? Would there be the same support and opposition for them?
I don't live near the release sites either, if I did, I would probably have a different opinion on the grizzlies. With that being said, I can empathize with both sides here. In the end, the government will do what they want and there isn't much we can do about it.
Post by: Loup Loup on May 02, 2024, 11:24:59 AM
Post by: Loup Loup on May 02, 2024, 11:29:01 AM
Post by: mcrawfordaf on May 02, 2024, 11:48:49 AM
"The objective of this review was to synthesize existing information from several disparate fields of
study concerning the historical presence of grizzly bears in the North Cascades region and to survey
possible contributing factors to the observed dynamics. While this review was not exhaustive, it
should be noted that there is certainly a lack of historical demographic data for the region’s grizzly
bears. The scarcity of information is in some respects puzzling and has understandably led some to
doubt that Washington State was ever home to viable populations; however, we suggest that there is
an intrinsic fallacy in the act of drawing conclusions based on a scarcity of evidence (Fischer 1970).
Specifically, the lack of information for any given time period does not prove the absence of grizzly
bears in the North Cascades. More research should be undertaken to supplement data gaps, especially
during the post-Columbian historical time period. A highly valuable and relatively accessible area of
research lies in the Pacific Northwest’s ethnographic literature and collective traditional ecological
knowledge (TEK; Huntington 2000). Time and resources permitting, we would have more fully
explored this body of information that clearly represents generations of detailed and highly reliable
observations."
From some of the books I've been reading and listening to about these early explorers and fur trappers - they very rarely, if ever, mention grizzly bear sightings around the regions that would be WA. They all, or at least the majority, came from Canada.
Post by: bigmacc on May 02, 2024, 12:39:10 PM
MtMuley said it best…..”let the maulings begin”
Post by: Ntbutcher on May 02, 2024, 02:06:47 PM
The anti-hunters are just thrilled: https://conservationnw.org/news-updates/conservation-groups-welcome-the-return-of-the-grizzly-to-the-north-cascades/
"alpine gardeners of the North Cascades" is a real gem from this. :chuckle:
Post by: dwils233 on May 02, 2024, 02:08:45 PM
Conflict will happen, either with black bears or people. At least for now they are in a non-essential, experimental status, so problem bears can be removed. I am not sure many people on both sides realize that.
This is one of the better discussion points that seems to be left aside by everyone.
They could have brought them without a 10j- worst outcome, or they could have waited for a grizzly to set up residency, which brings it's own restrictions and protections. They could have not brought them and we could hope they never show up...or they do a 10j, which allows for more liberal control efforts (like lethal removal for conflict) and less restrictions for landowners. It's about as good an option as was on the table at the end of the day.
Even if you hate the idea of reintroduction, it could have been worse is all I'm saying to keep things in context.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on May 02, 2024, 02:19:29 PM
Post by: RB on May 02, 2024, 02:33:05 PM
At what point, though, does wdfw have influence over the bears and give them special status. Start moving the goal posts such that the lethal removal is nearly impossible.
:yeah:
IF the bears do take hold the shutting down of areas to access will start. In Canada they started with the snowmobiles in certain areas. How well will people take it when North cascades, Mt Baker, and other areas get shut down to snowmobile access because there "might" be a pregnant bear in the area.
Post by: Loup Loup on May 02, 2024, 02:37:43 PM
Regardless moving Grizzly’s around is years out yet.
Post by: wolfbait on May 02, 2024, 06:43:30 PM
Hey bigmacc, you know the junction of Hwy 20 and Mazama? The big white house and who used to live there?Do you know roughly when that would have been? 1940s?
The man had dairy and beef cattle while he lived there, killed a grizzly from the front porch. Seen the pictures after I got to know him.
No worry's, Chelan County is going to get the first shipment!
I believe is was pre-40's, back in those days, all the "old-timers" I had discussions with claimed there was very little wildlife to chase in the valley. It wasn't until the county took over management did most hunt-able wildlife start to become abundant.
:tup: :tup: Bigmacc!
If you get a chance read the book, "From Copenhagen to Okanogan". Lot of history about the early years of the Okanogan etc.. Good Book
Post by: O. Nerka on May 02, 2024, 08:32:20 PM
That's been on my list for a while. I'll try to track down a copy. Thanks for the reminder.Hey bigmacc, you know the junction of Hwy 20 and Mazama? The big white house and who used to live there?Do you know roughly when that would have been? 1940s?
The man had dairy and beef cattle while he lived there, killed a grizzly from the front porch. Seen the pictures after I got to know him.
No worry's, Chelan County is going to get the first shipment!
I believe is was pre-40's, back in those days, all the "old-timers" I had discussions with claimed there was very little wildlife to chase in the valley. It wasn't until the county took over management did most hunt-able wildlife start to become abundant.
:tup: :tup: Bigmacc!
If you get a chance read the book, "From Copenhagen to Okanogan". Lot of history about the early years of the Okanogan etc.. Good Book
Post by: bigmacc on May 02, 2024, 08:48:54 PM
This state with a growing population and a growing population of folks who love to recreate are not conducive for a thriving population of Grizzly Bear!
Wolves were one thing, now Grizz, writing is on the wall. Ask why?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on May 03, 2024, 05:08:24 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on May 03, 2024, 06:52:06 AM
Post by: CarbonHunter on May 03, 2024, 08:29:39 AM
Post by: bigmacc on May 03, 2024, 09:17:16 PM
WhyEND HUNTING.
Post by: wolfbait on May 06, 2024, 05:15:41 AM
And again, How are the feds going to justify taking Grizzly’s from an endangered population ie: Idaho, Montana, Wyoming where no take is allowed, and moving them to an area where the population is deemed non-essential/ experimental? Perhaps B.C. or Alberta?
Regardless moving Grizzly’s around is years out yet.
The USFWS has their release and discover down pat they have been doing it since the sixties. I know of two credible grizzly releases of multiple bears in the Methow since the 80's. Both times the big bears returned to British Columbia. They can say they might bring them in from Wyoming, my guess is that's cover talk for BC. Like wolves getting the bears to stay is another thing, I'm wondering if they will drop them into cattle country like they did the wolves.
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/05/05/wyoming-grizzlies-could-someday-be-dropped-by-chopper-into-washington-state/?utm_source=Klaviyo&utm_medium=campaign&_kx=03QhdhzlvjEwc5SAgf0fx06umFkyTHl9Uc97HTi5MXeNGGMZDqRLeqPZMZUnznjw.UXPtrV
Post by: wolfbait on May 06, 2024, 05:18:42 AM
WhyEND HUNTING.
And shutting down public lands, just like WDFW did with their land last winter under the BS story of protecting deer which they don't give :twocents: about, but people fell for it anyway.
Post by: ducks4days on May 06, 2024, 08:44:38 AM
WhyEND HUNTING.
End hunting, end another accepted "reason" for citizens to be armed. The end goal is to end civilian ownership of firearms little by little. Reduce access, reduce participation, reduce recruitment, reduce sales, reduce demand for FFL's, increase barriers to entry, reduce access, wash, rinse, repeat.
Post by: vandeman17 on May 20, 2024, 09:53:59 AM
Post by: 300rum on May 20, 2024, 10:06:16 AM
I don't live near the release sites either, if I did, I would probably have a different opinion on the grizzlies.
Post by: MADMAX on May 21, 2024, 07:21:46 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/us/grizzly-bear-attack-wyoming/index.html
Post by: tgomez on May 27, 2024, 04:20:46 PM